The Name of the Rose

[radita]

Hi! I'm a new member of the Forum! and I need your help. This year I have to teach The Name of the Rose, but I have never read it and the school hasn't given me a copy of the book yet, so I'm already in panick! As I still haven't read anything does anybody know what the point of view of the novel is? And if you have any online copy and plans I would be really happy to get them! Thank you!

[PeterL]

It is essentially written as first person narrative. The interesting part is that Eco was writing his Theory of Semiotics at the same time, and the symbols and signs described are important to the story. You might want to look at Umberto Eco's website and see if he has anything useful on there.
http://www.umbertoeco.com/en/
This site is also quite good.
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/
This is a "fan site", but it has at least as much useful information as Eco's site.
You might also email Eco, and see if he can help you.

The Name of the Rose isn't his best, but it isn't bad.

[JBI]

Go and buy a book, for the 20$ it may cost you, or 3$ if you buy it used or whatever, it may benefit your students greatly.

[qimissung]

You're going to expect your students to read it, aren't you?

[cafolini]

Semiotics or semiology was a theory that was a goner before it started. Alfred Korzybski had already published his general semantics in Science and Sanity. Check it out. Eco's best is not The Name of the Rose, as someone already pointed out.
It is interesting to observe the link between Korzybski and Hiyakawa in Language in Thought and Action. Korzybski most famous statement is "the map is not the territory," which appears in another form in Marquez' "life is not the one we lived, but rather the one we remember."

[Calidore]

How in the world do you think you're going to effectively teach a novel from what info you can glean from websites? Especially when it comes to answering questions from students?

Some books are in pretty much every used bookstore, and that's one of them. Don't wait for the school to get you one, go out and find it, or get it from your local library. If you end up with an extra copy after getting one from the school, you can give it to a student who needs one.

[Charles Darnay]

I know I'm late to the game, but as a fellow teacher, I find this disgusting.

[cacian]

what's that? the bible?
try nonothing.com or godhelpyou.com.

[Calidore]

Another possibility is that he's a student who thought he might get better results if he claimed to be a teacher.

[Bleeding Pawn]

The book was also adapted into a movie. Beautifully done. It shows the attitude of the church towards its flocks, about inquisition and it even shows that the scandal cursing the church now, was common back then. Well actually it was the norm way back, between nuns and priests. Superbly portrayed by Sean Connery and young Christian Slater.

[cacian]

Another possibility is that he's a student who thought he might get better results if he claimed to be a teacher.

what you mean he forgot he was a student? i mean he sound like a bit lost to me.

[cafolini]

I know I'm late to the game, but as a fellow teacher, I find this disgusting.

Is obviously not a teacher. He/she's playing most idiotic in the neighborhood. Exceptionally ludicrous.

[cacian]

Is obviously not a teacher. He/she's playing most idiotic in the neighborhood. Exceptionally ludicrous.
It could be that he or she was rushed for time. The writing seems rather pushed.

[radita]

Thank you all for your answers! I have tried to get the book but even in English bookshops, the book is arriving at the end of the month and I need to start planning lessons. I can get the spanish version but it's not useful since I have to work with language so I relly need the English version. I'm from Argentina and children learn English as a second language.Of course I'm going to read the book, but as I have to send the plan to the head of school I needed the information I asked. Thanks for the links to websites you've shared, They will be very useful! :) And as regards the movie, I'm planning to watch some parts of it with my students.

[kev67]

The Name of the Rose isn't his best, but it isn't bad.



Eco's best is not The Name of the Rose, as someone already pointed out.

Which is his best? It's not Focault's Pendulum nor The Island of the Day Before. At least The Name of the Rose has one definite plot and an ending.

[PeterL]

Which is his best? It's not Focault's Pendulum nor The Island of the Day Before. At least The Name of the Rose has one definite plot and an ending.

Focault's Pendulum is Eco's best novel by far. If you prefer The Name of the Rose.

Do you think that Focault's Pendulum lacks plot and ending? It certainly has both and suspense as well. I also think that the charactrs in Focault's Pendulum are excellent, and the the outline of the plot of the De Vinci Code that Eco provided wasinteresting.

[kev67]

I seem to remember it was a thick book with a lot of erudite conversation in it. However, it did not get going until the last seventy pages. Baigent, Leigh and Richards' The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail did that subject better imo.

[PeterL]

Focault's Pendulum is one of the relatively few novels that is worth rereading. And remember Lia.

[Charles Darnay]

I really like his new(ish) one Prague Cemetery

[cafolini]

Which is his best? It's not Focault's Pendulum nor The Island of the Day Before. At least The Name of the Rose has one definite plot and an ending.

He has some humorous books that are much better. I like How to Travel with a Salmon, and a few others. But he's not a very great writer. Can't compare with Italo Calvino. Even Alberto Moravia has better pieces, like the short Il Terrore di Roma.
J.L. Borges a much better writer in essay form on related themes. And Macedomio Fernandez is much better in related themes like The Day before.

[Bleeding Pawn]

Thank you all for your answers! I have tried to get the book but even in English bookshops, the book is arriving at the end of the month and I need to start planning lessons. I can get the spanish version but it's not useful since I have to work with language so I relly need the English version. I'm from Argentina and children learn English as a second language.Of course I'm going to read the book, but as I have to send the plan to the head of school I needed the information I asked. Thanks for the links to websites you've shared, They will be very useful! :) And as regards the movie, I'm planning to watch some parts of it with my students.


It is not clear that to which age group you are tutoring but yes do go for the youtube version if you really want to watch it in parts, since it is censored and it will be enjoyable to watch with students.

[cacian]

Shouldn't it be ''In the Name of the Rose''. The IN is definetely missing I say.

[Bleeding Pawn]

It is one of the best book to movie adaptations and perhaps sadly, underrated.

[PeterL]

Shouldn't it be ''In the Name of the Rose''. The IN is definetely missing I say.

No, Eco explained the title in Postscript to The Name of the Rose, but I can't recall the story. He may have explained it womewhere else also.

[cacian]

No, Eco explained the title in Postscript to The Name of the Rose, but I can't recall the story. He may have explained it womewhere else also.

The reason I think it is IN THE is because the holy script the almighty prayer starts
IN THE name of the father...and so on.
It is a famous start IN THE, TO THE does not fit the clause/model.

[cafolini]

Semiotics or semiology was a theory that was a goner before it started. Alfred Korzybski had already published his general semantics in Science and Sanity. Check it out. Eco's best is not The Name of the Rose, as someone already pointed out.
It is interesting to observe the link between Korzybski and Hiyakawa in Language in Thought and Action. Korzybski most famous statement is "the map is not the territory," which appears in another form in Marquez' "life is not the one we lived, but rather the one we remember."

[cacian]

''the map is not the territory'' is an allegory rather then a statement. I only speak in statement and so i would start all my statements with a positive forward.
ie ''I would state this: '' the territory is when the map is not'' which shows I am speaking and not taking myself out. It is didactic forward thinking. It is a discipline andworks for logics.

Marquez' "life is not the one we lived, but rather the one we remember."
I only remember Marquex with ''A hundred years of solitude'' and it is funny how this comes up. The magic realism man is not touch with his side of reality it seems.
There he is in here stating a life in a past without giving it a second thought? where does he get his magic realism from? sleeping? somehow I doubt.
Magic is a spark off life. To remember is to quote from sleep when waking up (finnegans'wake style) It is a consecutive dilemma where sleep is required in order to remember.
Life however requires flair awakeness and lot of observations inspirations NOT derived from memory but from being alert and effectively with it.
Magic is the ideal of life in its full awarness. It is not memory /remembrance. It is visually inspired there and then .
''A hundred years of solitude'' is drawn from the fact that a he is fully aware of the endurance of life repetitiveness and its punishing side of not giving when it is not forgiving hence solitude.
So whatever remembrance is being quoted it does not fit in with magic realism and his books.
So to recap Marquez is not being clever at summing what he is writing his genre and his outlook on a life that he thinks we do not live but that of we remember. I don't frankly remember what all this is about but i have a feeling it is somehow finnegeny type of dellusion.
I do not remember life for I am in it. I only remember dreams.

[PeterL]

The reason I think it is IN THE is because the holy script the almighty prayer starts
IN THE name of the father...and so on.
It is a famous start IN THE, TO THE does not fit the clause/model.

I know what you mean, but it isn't from that source.

Scroll down to the section named "Title"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_of_the_Rose

[cacian]

I know what you mean, but it isn't from that source.

Scroll down to the section named "Title"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_of_the_Rose

Thank you for the link.
It is interesting to see that it talks about biblical analysis. I thought it might be linked. :) I see what I can find,
The interesting bit about this book is 'suicide' and in a monastry. It does play on the notion of sin because monks of all people know that suicide is not an option in religion and so I am slightly at loss with the plot.
How does suicide sit with monastries?

[cafolini]

''the map is not the territory'' is an allegory rather then a statement. I only speak in statement and so i would start all my statements with a positive forward.
ie ''I would state this: '' the territory is when the map is not'' which shows I am speaking and not taking myself out. It is didactic forward thinking. It is a discipline andworks for logics.

Marquez' "life is not the one we lived, but rather the one we remember."
I only remember Marquex with ''A hundred years of solitude'' and it is funny how this comes up. The magic realism man is not touch with his side of reality it seems.
There he is in here stating a life in a past without giving it a second thought? where does he get his magic realism from? sleeping? somehow I doubt.
Magic is a spark off life. To remember is to quote from sleep when waking up (finnegans'wake style) It is a consecutive dilemma where sleep is required in order to remember.
Life however requires flair awakeness and lot of observations inspirations NOT derived from memory but from being alert and effectively with it.
Magic is the ideal of life in its full awarness. It is not memory /remembrance. It is visually inspired there and then .
''A hundred years of solitude'' is drawn from the fact that a he is fully aware of the endurance of life repetitiveness and its punishing side of not giving when it is not forgiving hence solitude.
So whatever remembrance is being quoted it does not fit in with magic realism and his books.
So to recap Marquez is not being clever at summing what he is writing his genre and his outlook on a life that he thinks we do not live but that of we remember. I don't frankly remember what all this is about but i have a feeling it is somehow finnegeny type of dellusion.
I do not remember life for I am in it. I only remember dreams.

You are a clumsy tyrant. ROFLMAO!!
Thank goodness, truly awkward, dreaming all day long but only remembering dreams.

[cacian]

A clumsy tyrant!!! LOl whatever that means:smilielol5: