New writer learning dialog, think this is any good?

[F.E. Michael]

* 3/6 Scroll down for revised dialog*

I've been rewriting the short story I posted and there were two characters which my MC eavesdropped. I found it best to write a seperate dialog for them, because it makes it easier to cherrypick lines that will form a cohesive idea of the conversation. I was wondering, any dialog fans want to tell me if this sounds naturalish for low ranking military back-and-forth about gossip? Only 3-4 lines will make it to the story, but these people will be in my novel as well so I like the insight I got from the dialog. This isn't polished, it's draft quality stuff, so keep it in mind. If you want back story go check my (long, poorly written) short story draft in the sharing section (these characters aren't in it but you'll get the subject at least). http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?74010-Different-in-the-Morning

Raul: “I’m getting a round of chow out for the first shift to serve” “…come give me a hand, cart’s stuck again.”

Tim: “What, think I’m gonna fall for some bull**** hazing? Shove me in there for an hour or so ‘til the next crew finds me?” “I’m no fresh meat son. I been through this **** when you were still cutting teeth.”

Raul: “Naw, no bull****, I swear. Graveyard dogs gotta stick together."

Tim: “Whatever, I’ll play ball.” “sigh...served with the one-oh-ninth, this is what I get for telling the godamn truth.”

Raul: “Wait… 109th Infantry? Like first contact 109th? Bull-****in’-****!”

Tim: “Spare me the doe-eyes and ‘hero’ bull****. The name is Tim, I’m the new Jack-of-the-dust, that’s it.”

Raul: “Unh-uh, you gotta give me more than that, it’s been hell up here alone since Ted transferred. C’mon, how the ****’d you end up here bro’?”

Tim: “It was a massacre since we put boots down, went to Intel with some news and asked a few questions, they got skittish.”

Raul: “So they sent you to sling **** in the galley, huh?”

Tim: “Guess so, they stuck me with Navy transfer papers with the ink still wet… Old Man spun some yarn about how they needed guys they could trust up here.

Raul: “So you’re some kinda spy for intel or something?”

Tim: “Think I’d be tellin’ you this **** if I was reporting to Intel? I’m just here to keep an ear to the ground over some stowaway in the Captain’s cabin…”

Raul: “**** hit the fan when they heard about what’s happinin’ at the lunar post. We rounded up the ****ers until we’re cleared to dock.

Tim: “Gotta be more to it than that, my CO told me you issued a call to the main flotilla.”

Raul: "Well we hauled ‘em down to the lower decks so they’d be under guard. But see, a bunch of the young ones, they fought back. Plucked a few guns off a
patrol.”

Tim: “I heard there’s an inquiry being wrapped up for that at command. We’ll know when it comes down COC”

Raul: “Yeah, **** only rolls downhill right? Ha, **** though, still can’t say what the hell possessed one of them to hunker down in crew quarters?

Tim: "A Captain’s no-less!”

Raul: “SHhhh, keep it down bro’, voices carry in here, someone dropped in early in the mess hall. I don’t wanna have any explainin’ to do.”

Tim: “Probably true, and they’re keeping it real hush, that’s why I didn’t think of it at first. S’almost like they don’t buy his story.”

Raul: “He’s always been good to us third shift guys, but **** seems fishy as **** to me. You don’t think he’s bonin’ one of ‘em?”

Tim: “…What?”

Raul: “C’mon man, you can’t say you haven’t looked, them *****es got *** for days! ‘sides, I was just ****in’ around”

Tim: “If that’s the case, maybe there is a good reason they shipped me off to this tin-can. Beside the point, they aren’t even from earth, ugh.”

Raul: “Man when you’ been talkin’ to brooms ‘n’ boxes as long as I’ve been you’ll come around.”

[cacian]

I still feel that dialogues belong to plays and simple and direct expressions lines and sentences belong to stories.
I have never been good with dialogues because i say them ie talk them rather then write them. That is just how i consider language. What is spoken is said and what is thought is written.
Sorry if this did not help. I jsut needed to put it in since you brought it up. :)
The only slight thing I wish to add is this:
there is little about the two characters that guides me towards what they actually sound like. There is no sound track if you like. In between the dialogues I would propably interject as the writer that is you to break the momentum/speed a little a bit and add something about them. Humour is a good one. Something like this:
Tim is a gregarious lad with bouts of energy. He loves collection speeches from around the globe.
Raul however is never late for his dates or something silly like that just to evolve the characters and make them appeal. :)

[F.E. Michael]

Great feedback, thanks! This is only a back and forth, there won't be a huge block of conversation in the story! I'll also add narration, some description and scene setting to tie it all in. It will be much more dynamic. Like I said 3-4 lines will make the cut and be formatted into a story worthy mini version that my MC will have eavesdropped on.

[hillwalker]

It's just talking heads, I'm afraid. Both characters sound exactly the same and I couldn't make sense of what they were talking about 99% of the time due to the jargon and ***s (other than that they are soldiers locked up in some kind of prison?). I also got confused by your misuse of speech marks.

Dialogue certainly has a place in any narrative - a way of allowing the story to develop through your characters. But in this instance it leaves the reader stranded on the sidelines - 'eavesdropping' as you say on something they have no understanding of.

H

[F.E. Michael]

I see you are a big picture sort of critic and respect that. You are hitting some key points I was actually looking for. I can't say that it matters for now, though. This piece isn't posted for review as a story, it's just a blob to cut from. I posted it so people might help me pick which lines seem to work, and seem interesting.

Where are the speech marker problems?

This is what feedback is all about, and I am glad you offer up all this advice. So, you got the feel of talking heads? Exactly as I'd hoped really. The MC has no idea who these men really are and he doesn't care. Anyway, I will take note they sound alike and work in some seperation. The jargon is 100% needed, they are talking among themselves as two military men. I made clear they were in the galley (kitchen), not a prison. The swearing indicates the type of conversation (personal among two people who percieve to be alone) and the quality of the men talking (rough).

All I want to do is find a few stones to polish for my story.

[hillwalker]

Where are the speech marker problems?

Raul: “I’m getting a round of chow out for the first shift to serve” why close speech marks and reopen them here? It's still Raul speaking. “…come give me a hand, cart’s stuck again.”

Tim: “What, think I’m gonna fall for some bull**** hazing? Shove me in there for an hour or so ‘til the next crew finds me?” Ditto “I’m no fresh meat son. I been through this **** when you were still cutting teeth.”

Raul: “Naw, no bull****, I swear. Graveyard dogs gotta stick together."

Tim: “Whatever, I’ll play ball.” and here “sigh...and does he say the word sigh? or does he sigh? served with the one-oh-ninth, this is what I get for telling the godamn truth.”

This is where the dialogue became heavy going - as soon as Tim tells Raul he was in the 109th it's fairly obvious it's for the reader's benefit (exposition through dialogue). And much of what follows is the same I feel - you're putting words in your character's mouth so he can dump more back-story on the reader. Real people don't speak this way and most serious writers wouldn't use this technique.

The swearing is fine - but you have to give us a clue to what he's saying here:

Raul: “C’mon man, you can’t say you haven’t looked, them *****es got *** for days! ‘sides, I was just ****in’ around”

H

[Grit]

Hey Michael,

Dialogue is a part of writing I struggle with and it looks like you do too. Its much different than any other part of writing imo and there should be one main goal.

Make it sound real. I say sound because more than prose dialogue appeals to our sense of sound.

My advice would be never write dialogue without reading it out loud. Your characters should sound like real people having a conversation.

Study some good film and plays. Cat on a hot tin roof. Aaron Sorkins films like A few good men. Not all Hollywood movies have good dialogue, some is terrible but Aaron Sorkin is a master.

[F.E. Michael]

C'mon Hill, I said it was a draft, those are just lines where I thought I might choose one of the two. When I get back home I'll pull the lines I've decided I dislike and compensate for profanity filters since it does ruin the context.

Grit, I'll look into those works and see where I can push to sound more convincing.

It's not a story guys, it's possible lines put in order so they make sense when I decide what to pull for the actual story. I don't see where these are different from normal conversation, and I did read them aloud. I based this back and forth on gossip as I've heard it.

[F.E. Michael]

At about 6:30 into "A Few Good Men" there's an exchange between three military men. They are talking about a person behind her back, much like my dialog. Honestly I think you guys are harsh on me. This stuff isn't much different than my own and mine isn't even out of first draft. The big glaring differences I see here are:

This dialog has been cut (mine hasn't yet), it's in context (mine isn't yet), and it's part of a well known play/movie (I'm not there, haha).

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I once it has been edited for context and cut of some things I could go pull lines from my stuff right up here on this thread that are almost identically phrased and worded. Jargon? Check. Lingo and slang? Check. Swearing? Check. I can't even see how this is much less expository than my own work.

A Few Good Men 6:30-7:30:

Capt. West: “I thought this ‘Code Red’ **** wadn’t goin’ on anymore?”

Cmdr. Lawrence: “With the Marines at Gitmo, who knows what the hell goes on down there?”

Capt. West: “Well we’d better find out before the rest of the world does or the damn thing could get messy!"

Capt. West: “Alright, what about this, uh, Commander Gallaway?”

Cmdr. Lawrence: “She’s been working a desk in Internal Affairs for, what? Uh, little over a year now...”

Capt. West: “’fore that?”

Jerry: “She disposed of three cases in two years.”

Capt. West: “Three cases in two years!? Who’s she handlin’, the Rosenbergs?”

Jerry: “She’s not cutout for litigation.”

Cmdr. Lawrence: “She’s a helluva investigator, Jerry, we should get her an opportunity…”

Jerry: “In Internal Affairs, sure, she can crawl up a lawyer’s *** with the best of ‘em. When it comes to trial work, I think…”

Capt. West: “I know, I know, all passion no streetsmarts.”

[F.E. Michael]

Fresh lamb for the slaughter.... Enjoy.

Raul: “Come help me with this car, been hell alone here since Ed transferred. How'd ya end up here anyway?”

Tim: “Went up Chain-of-Command with some questions, got skittish. Stuck me with a Navy transfer and had me aweigh before the ink dried.”

Raul: “They shipped ya’ up here to sling trays in the galley, huh?”

Tim: “****(poop) only rolls downhill, right? I’m meeting with Capt. Simms for assignment, after the Admiral’s report.”

Raul: “Cap’n’s always been good to us third shift guys…"

Raul: "Wait, what report? Damnit! Old Man Stone’s back onboard?”

Tim: “Came in on the same barge I did.”

Raul: “Back for two nights, already calling for a brief? Intel must be up 'is ***(buttocks) 'bout the refugees.”

[hillwalker]

Ok - even overheard dialogue has to be believable (it has to ring true with the characters who deliver it).

I'm guessing the set-up is this - Raul is working in the galley on a spaceship and has been joined by Tim who's new to the job but has been around the services a while.
Neither know each other, and they're in a slightly stressful situation so it's unlikely that Raul would ask right out 'How'd 'ya end up here anyway' or that Tim would share his life story within the space of two sentences. Your characters aren't interacting the way you would expect them to in your plot - they're acting like puppets passing on the information you'd like your readers to know.

Admittedly, this redraft is better than the first, but as I said earlier - dialogue used for exposition is a no-no (first draft or otherwise). Any dialogue has to earn its keep:

R: “Help me with this car, bud. It's been hell round here since Ed transferred.”
T: "Ed?"
R: "Just some numb-nuts who ended up down here because he asked too many questions."
T: "Ah. So that's how it works."
R: "You got the same treatment?"
T: "Could say that. Chain-of-Command got skittish when I ruffled a few feathers. Navy transfer had me away before the ink dried on the paperwork."
R: "Promoted to slinging trays in the galley."
T: "They say sh1t always rolls downhill, right?"
R: "Well, that's my only excuse for being way down here."
T: "I'm not planning on being round for long. Once the Admiral's report comes through. . ."
R: "He back on board?"
T: "Came in on the same barge as I did. I'm meeting with Capt. Simms for assignment in a couple of days' time.”
R: “The Cap’n’s always been good to us third shift guys. . . But Old Man Stone? Only back a couple of nights and already calling for a brief? God, Intel must really be crawlin' up 'is a$$ 'bout these refugees.”

Ok - it's not much better - but does it read more like a realistic conversation than a script?

H

[F.E. Michael]

Well, yes, I think it reads better. The problem is, I'm just at a crossroad with the eavesdropping. I'm trying to make it short, so I was keeping the overheard conversation really brief and I think that is what pushed it to sound like an info dump. That was good advice, reminding me that usually you wouldn't just up and ask someone a blunt question. I am trying not to get too wrapped up in such a small part of the story. I think it would start to really polish up if I take influence from what you just wrote and massage my own shorter lines to sound more conversational. In context with the story it has to be brief, but I do want it to sound natural. Ugh. Thanks, though.