View Full Version : Love is a chain at times?
I read it in a story called the Wife by Washington Irving:
The treasures of the deep are not so precious
As are the concealed comforts of a man
Lock'd up in woman's love. I scent the air
Of blessings, when I came but near the house,
What a delicious breath marriage sends forth--
The violet bed's no sweeter!
Love is not always comforting and love becomes a chain on life, and it does not set one free and it goes against freedom.
I have seen husbands who really take care of their spouses, give them lots of money and comforts, and cried for them and do not want to part with them. And are always afraid that external forces or circumstances will create a barrier between them. They classically adore and enamor them and write beautiful immortal verses in praise of them. They cannot concentrate their minds on their works while being in their offices. They think something happen to their wives.
I am not talking about western men and women. I am talking about women in the other hemisphere where beauty is worshipped and enamored.
The women too are always thinking about their husbands and live in fear that some other women could have hold over them.
Women are compelled to live as homing birds and get everything love, money, children, and even joys. They are happy there.
But by different standards they are chained to objects or comforts. These lovelorn are often educated women but they love to be slaving away.
I cannot judge them. They seem happier though in confinements and they do not have to undergo the tortures and traumas of the singles who live in a state of depression having anyone to take concerns for them. I want to exclude those who are singles and feel their freedom or domain is invaded
I was wondering when this topic will show up. I have seen on another forum a thread about sex communism. Well, the idea is not new. Diogenes was against love and marriage, seeing it as an obstacle to freedom. He even rejected normal ideas about human decency. Diogenes is said to have eaten in the marketplace, urinated on some people who insulted him, defecated in the theater, masturbated in public. That’s freedom. :D
We can’t forget about Gnostics.
These Gnostics, says Eliphas Lévi, under the pretext of "spiritualizing matter, materialized the spirit in the most revolting ways.... Rebels to the hierarchic order, ...... Enemies of the family, they wished to produce sterility by increasing debauchery."
Eliphas Lévi, Histoire de la Magie, pp. 217, 218.
According to Tertullian, the Valentinians continued, or rather perverted, the mysteries of Eleusis, out of which they made a "sanctuary of prostitution."
Other Gnostic sects pushed pedophilia, homosexuality, and bestiality, forbidding sex with women. I don’t have time to bring quotes of researchers who took a serious look at Gnostic sects.
Very interesting researches! What is sex communism?
Very interesting researches! What is sex communism?
Well, the OP called it sex communism but he meant that you don’t have a relationship with a partner but have sexual relationships with many partners without commitment and without any responsibility. Gnostics practiced it but there were several sects who have done that. The Valentinians’ sexual practices were quite disgusting but I don’t feel that it is appropriate to quote researchers. Interestingly enough, I have found the similar practices in Kalachakra Tantra, although not as bad as that of Valentinians’.
I have heard in Tantric philosophy sex is inevitable, and even sperm is used to sprinkle over the body. In fact I cannot understand this incongruity or inconsistency between what the theology scribbles and what the practicener does. Sex is in check in theological narratives but given the case of some icons like Krishna who had multiple wives. Kunti is had relationships with the Gods to get semen from them to impregnate herself with potent sons.
I think researches have to be made disinterestedly
Sex was important in Gnostic practice too. The key is what they did and how they treated women. Absolutely disgusting. Interestingly enough, feminists scrupulously avoid that.
You may like Krishna and the fact he had 8 wives, and if I remember correctly, he had anther 20.000 wives he saved. He is not my cup of coffee and if we look at the fact that in Hindu temples girls as young as 6 years old are forced into prostitution….this religion is out of question. :yikes:
In fact it is a question of judgment as I have seen erotic scenes in many temples and gods and goddesses in their positional rapt gripped in sexual ecstasies. On the one hand Hinduism and most religious authorities accent asceticism. Even Gurus in India have stories to tell, very horrible and melodramatic tales. The students who are told to shun or keep in control the urge but the reality they witness around goes quite the opposite
LOL! With forced prostitution of young girls and horrible treatment of women. But you may deny it… It is very convenient, isn’t it?
Oh, melodramatic tales. Is that so? Why don’t you visit Mythology and Religion in Art thread where I exposed a few Buddhists and Hindu gurus and their practices. It is a tip of the iceberg. I am not going into that topic again……it causes too much anxiety exposing the truth. :reddevil:
In fact there is a great deal of incompatibility between what lessons are prescribed and what are in real practice in our every day life and people go taken aback and cannot find a true and unsullied course. As a child I saw erotic arts, paintings on temple walls when I visited some ancient temples in India and Nepal, a subject immensely incongruous against the backdrop.
Of course forcing little ones as old as six years is a matter of shame, inexcusable disgrace. The act brings shame on not only the perpetrator who is in the act of sex but also on the social or religious authority who sanctify this in the name of religion, tantra or mudras. This kind of disharmony leaves people depressed, particularly the common torn between two contrastive realities and cannot find escapes.
As I said, I don’t want to go into Hindu religion. I have learned my lessons. :lol: I was a member on a forum with a big sign” gathering in awareness”. Well, when I posted independent research about Transcendental Meditation and Hindu religion….all my posts were deleted and I got 1 month time out.
They sent a member, I would say a barking dog, who was proud of herself for “flashing me out”, not seeing that she made me a big favor........ Too bad that she didn't "flashed me out" 1 year earlier so that I wouldn’t waste my time. I got cured......no more truth forums. :reddevil:
I think that it is enough of my explanation. I would rather go back to Gnostics. Very interesting indeed.
I know little about it though I have a wiki source to access it which does not accord with the way you have disambiguated it. You seem to have a deeper knowledge of it, and and of course when we see things from one side we know only one dimension or aspect of the truth we want to know. I never knew Gothic literature unfurled some of the deep seated human passions, even bestiality and the . It is really interesting to know the other side of that mainstream wherein people committed sexual acts and build relationships without commitments or accountability for the consequences thereof.
cacian
03-05-2013, 05:11 AM
I say love is a chain reaction that breaks if it is not mained.
I know little about it though I have a wiki source to access it which does not accord with the way you have disambiguated it. You seem to have a deeper knowledge of it, and and of course when we see things from one side we know only one dimension or aspect of the truth we want to know. I never knew Gothic literature unfurled some of the deep seated human passions, even bestiality and the . It is really interesting to know the other side of that mainstream wherein people committed sexual acts and build relationships without commitments or accountability for the consequences thereof.
Well, I am passionate about truth and I am not satisfied with simple answers. I prefer to ask question and search.
I didn’t know about Gnostic practices. John Lash promotes Gnosticism. Even though he has acknowledged that Gnostic practices were sexual in nature, he has kept his mouth shut about details of those practices. It was enough for me to awaken my curiosity about “sexual nature” of those practices. Now, I know why he avoided it. :lol: We never know what inspires us to do research.
You are delving deeper and deeper realities of the stream of thought and ideology that influenced a great many epochs. I have by now been able to dig a little further into the subject, and yet to fathom the profundity of the topic is hard to come by now.
What I found interesting is Gnostic literature takes materialism as a staircase to ascend, and when it boils down to materialistic fulfillment, discharge it can take an uncouth path towards realization, exotic or erotic ways to arrive at some esoteric findings.
I do not know Gnostic mythologies and my sources are what I come across online literature and I have yet to explore scholastic books and journals
I wouldn’t agree that this ideology influenced a great many epochs. I see it as a very clever way of deceiving people. Those who have done that knew very well the hearts and minds of people and how to manipulate them.
There is lots of professional literature about Gnostics. There are scholars who have integrity but there are many who love half -truth. As Benjamin Franklin said, “Half a truth is often a great lie.” :lol:
In fact I like the mythological aspect of Gnostics, and since through mythologies we can come to know layered truths, the truths that lie beneath the seen. And things that cannot be articulated through statements can be metaphorically illuminated. Often poetry can do this job. When we read mythological tales it is not the tale that startles children and they can be great reservoirs of ideas for we adults. Art often do justice to it, and though they are erotic often something of the primitive, uncharted realisms will be delineated.
I find religious documents for that reason alone a great cascade of inspirations
cacian
03-05-2013, 06:38 AM
I find religious documents for that reason alone a great cascade of inspirations
if religion was a document I would be keeping the original.:)
Originally posted by [B]Osho[/B
In fact I like the mythological aspect of Gnostics, and since through mythologies we can come to know layered truths, the truths that lie beneath the seen. And things that cannot be articulated through statements can be metaphorically illuminated. Often poetry can do this job. When we read mythological tales it is not the tale that startles children and they can be great reservoirs of ideas for we adults. Art often do justice to it, and though they are erotic often something of the primitive, uncharted realisms will be delineated.
I find religious documents for that reason alone a great cascade of inspirations.
As I went deeper into that subject I may say that I don’t like Gnosticism at all. We can’t take one aspect but reject the rest. Very unwise indeed. I still have a list of books to read but I am more interested about their methods of mind control and manipulations and where did they learn it.
As I went deeper into that subject I may say that I don’t like Gnosticism at all. We can’t take one aspect but reject the rest. Very unwise indeed. I still have a list of books to read but I am more interested about their methods of mind control and manipulations and where did they learn it.
The issue is one of knowing the truth, as we may know a half truth and not the total of it. It is sensible to know the truth of something though we loathe it. I suddenly got absorbed into Gnostics not because I like it or dislike it but the aspects or the ways people over longs spans of time got riveted in this mainstream and torrents of literary and artistic creations were accredited to this stream of thought. I was immersed into paganisms of late and I like paganism more than Judaism or Catholicism since they have lived in touch with nature and worshipped live natures. There were some aspects we easily cannot find palatable looking at them from our cultural aspects. But we find easily digestible the truth about on going practices like forcing small girls into prostitutions to call the acts consecrated. This venomous society is not different from the one at the bottom compared to the Gnostic society wherein sexual thirsts were justified on the spiritual appetite and as you said they have materialized spirituality in the name of doing the opposite
Well, Diogenes also attracted the attention of many painters or writers. I would be the last person to be attracted to urinating on people or masturbating in public…but many painters and writers did. :lol: I don’t like paganism any more. Well, feminists tried hard to bring pagan religion and a goddess cult but they omitted many important aspects or just distorted data or facts.
Anyway, we have a big revival of Greek/Roman mythology today. It is a romanticized version that has a little to do with ancient world. I would say that creating own version of Greek mythology has become a Saturday fever of 20/21 century. But we have a promotion of Gnosticism with the omission of the most important aspects too. The same applies to Hindu religion. One of the scholars of Hindu religion criticized J. Campbell and C. Jung for romanticizing Hindu religion. Distortions are everywhere but there are scholars who expose lies and distortions. :)
stlukesguild
03-05-2013, 04:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSRm80WzZk
Well, Diogenes also attracted the attention of many painters or writers. I would be the last person to be attracted to urinating on people or masturbating in public…but many painters and writers did. :lol: I don’t like paganism any more. Well, feminists tried hard to bring pagan religion and a goddess cult but they omitted many important aspects or just distorted data or facts.
Anyway, we have a big revival of Greek/Roman mythology today. It is a romanticized version that has a little to do with ancient world. I would say that creating own version of Greek mythology has become a Saturday fever of 20/21 century. But we have a promotion of Gnosticism with the omission of the most important aspects too. The same applies to Hindu religion. One of the scholars of Hindu religion criticized J. Campbell and C. Jung for romanticizing Hindu religion. Distortions are everywhere but there are scholars who expose lies and distortions. :)
I wonder why they will masturbate while performing something. Maybe the rapture they attain at a certain point. I have not seen but read about singers who unzip their pants once they reach a certain state. Art, painting, music, literature have a great deal to do with nudity. Nudity as people strip themselves bare at a certain stage does not become a bestial activity. Maybe it is a stage of divinity at that gets manifest in nudist manifestations. Civilizations, religious dogmas, cultural taboos layer the truth about humans. But on the contrary mythological art and literature reveal the world beyond the veiled.
Yes I second your idea and we are on the fringe when it comes to understanding or delineating the facts about Greek or any other mythological issues or gnostics. When we try to make a revelation our own realities, understandings, preconceptions debar us and we cannot delve into the truth. Like the way Hindu pundits criticizing the Jungians romanticizing Hinduism.
Yes I second your idea and we are on the fringe when it comes to understanding or delineating the facts about Greek or any other mythological issues or gnostics. When we try to make a revelation our own realities, understandings, preconceptions debar us and we cannot delve into the truth.
I don’t agree that we can’t delve into the truth. On the contrary, I have noticed that when I don’t accept simple answers or accept what so-called authorities say but dig deep, I arrive at the same conclusions as people who have done the same research.
Like the way Hindu pundits criticizing the Jungians romanticizing Hinduism.
I mentioned an American scholar of Hindu religion not a Hindu pundits. :lol: I agree with him that Jung romanticized Hindu religion.
BTW, you have already talked with St.Luke about nudity in lengths.……boring to hear it again. :p
Men have double standards, men of elite society, actors, highbrows and they masquerade their real natures and present what they are not, their falsehood, and fabrication. We are not always what we talk about and we censor our speeches. What pops up inside us will pass through a filter. Streams of thoughts, imaginations, flashbacks of our all past acts, memories, both sweeter and bitter experiences, or beliefs, slipups and some irrational dreams, melodramas, nightmares, and ejaculations, incest roll up and tend to surface but our consciousness which is constituted of projected thoughts, learning, drillings will bowdlerize them and we become big pretenders. We lie whether in literature or in real life and only a few writers give them a vent. Art do some justice. That is why people do things behind closed doors and their beastly predilection. They project civilly and courteously on the stage but what they are is only their embellished and dramatize personas. Everyone has an innate penchant for things publicly censor which they perform in their private. We are liars and pretenders, deceivers.
True art and literature mainly poetry find expression for such human dispositions. That is why mythologies do justice to give vent to human natures and behaviors better than our socially censored literary creations. There has been great discoveries and inventions in material realms but little in psychic spheres. Man is fully awake in his dream since there is no bowdlerization and censorship on human thinking processes. We can think and do instinctively in our trance-like dream states.
Men have double standards, men of elite society, actors, highbrows and they masquerade their real natures and present what they are not, their falsehood, and fabrication. We are not always what we talk about and we censor our speeches. What pops up inside us will pass through a filter. Streams of thoughts, imaginations, flashbacks of our all past acts, memories, both sweeter and bitter experiences, or beliefs, slipups and some irrational dreams, melodramas, nightmares, and ejaculations, incest roll up and tend to surface but our consciousness which is constituted of projected thoughts, learning, drillings will bowdlerize them and we become big pretenders. We lie whether in literature or in real life and only a few writers give them a vent. Art do some justice. That is why people do things behind closed doors and their beastly predilection. They project civilly and courteously on the stage but what they are is only their embellished and dramatize personas. Everyone has an innate penchant for things publicly censor which they perform in their private. We are liars and pretenders, deceivers.
Well, speak for yourself! I know men who are everything opposite what you wrote.
“ Incest roll up”….like Freud who had incestuous relationship with his sister and created theory that explained his perversion. Not every men is like Freud. He may be your ideal as I remember your post about him. For your knowledge, a number of psychiatrists and psychologists rejected his theory. I am not going to waste my time to talk about him.
Nice that you introduced yourself who you are…….:reddevil:
Well, speak for yourself! I know men who are everything opposite what you wrote.
“ Incest roll up”….like Freud who had incestuous relationship with his sister and created theory that explained his perversion. Not every men is like Freud. He may be your ideal as I remember your post about him. For your knowledge, a number of psychiatrists and psychologists rejected his theory. I am not going to waste my time to talk about him.
Nice that you introduced yourself who you are…….:reddevil:
I did not introduce myself through who I am dear ftl. I am not asserting it as a common denominator. No writer, thinker, artist can portray man and of course woman in full. No writing can totally do justice. If you think about me from your narrow lenses you are wrong, dear madam. It seems you are angry at what I wrote and there is nothing to be enrage you and this is not a personal issue. If you say I am introducing myself through my article you are imperiling your communication with me and with the rest of members here. You will find your world greatly confined and you will be a prisoner of your own narrow sentiments. Break the hard-shell of your your narrow-mindedness. Nowhere on the forum I am hitting you in person. You might have some personal stories or life events that come manifest through your expressions. Yesterday you wrote as a good commentator and today something possessed you. Break through the cocoon of your limitations and I can be your good friend and have little to do to upset you. This is a public forum and I could talk to you through PM but I chose this way since I do not want to discuss things personally. Forgive me if I sounded harsh.
I did not introduce myself through who I am dear ftl. I am not asserting it as a common denominator. No writer, thinker, artist can portray man and of course woman in full. No writing can totally do justice. If you think about me from your narrow lenses you are wrong, dear madam. It seems you are angry at what I wrote and there is nothing to be enrage you and this is not a personal issue. If you say I am introducing myself through my article you are imperiling your communication with me and with the rest of members here. You will find your world greatly confined and you will be a prisoner of your own narrow sentiments. Break the hard-shell of your your narrow-mindedness. Nowhere on the forum I am hitting you in person. You might have some personal stories or life events that come manifest through your expressions. Yesterday you wrote as a good commentator and today something possessed you. Break through the cocoon of your limitations and I can be your good friend and have little to do to upset you. This is a public forum and I could talk to you through PM but I chose this way since I do not want to discuss things personally. Forgive me if I sounded harsh.
Yes, you did introduced yourself! I don’t think about you from “narrow lenses:” I have paid attention what you wrote, and particularly, when you spoke on behalf all men. I have not met you just today! :devil: You would want all men be like that, wouldn’t you? You would not need to look at yourself….very convenient. But you accuse me of being narrow minded. :lol: You may hide behind being an artist……. But you are not going to fool me.
Yesterday you wrote as a good commentator and today something possessed you.
Yes, indescribable boredom possessed me! :lol: I am always "possessed" when I loose interest and intellectual stimulation.
Enjoy LitNet…. I said what I needed to say and I have more interesting things to do.
Yes, you did introduced yourself! I don’t think about you from “narrow lenses:” I have paid attention what you wrote, and particularly, when you spoke on behalf all men. I have not met you just today! :devil: You would want all men be like that, wouldn’t you? You would not need to look at yourself….very convenient. But you accuse me of being narrow minded. :lol: You may hide behind being an artist……. But you are not going to fool me.
Yes, indescribable boredom possessed me! :lol: I am always "possessed" when I loose interest and intellectual stimulation.
Enjoy LitNet…. I said what I needed to say and I have more interesting things to do.
You are wrathful for some fabrication. Literature is our imagination and when you take something we invent out of our mind-scape for real you become deluded and you cannot see truth properly and you look at things from your limited perspectives. That perspectives sicken you and isolate you from the rest of society. Maybe some past events or experiences might have shaped your patterns of thinking. Do not mold all into one type.
My discussion varies and I do write depending on the context, somewhere it surfaces positively and somewhere negatively, the way Shakespeare write both comedies and tragedies and looking at his persona through a tragedian lens you miss his other self, the comedian one.
And you irrationally and narrow-mindedly said - I am introducing myself. Maybe you are introducing your state of mind.
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