Dante or Milton?

[jprevprev]

Hi all,

I was just wondering what you think is more suitable for a beginner, Dante's Divine Comedy or Milton's Paradise Lost? This is for a project exploring the changing portrayal of Satan across history, also studying Goethe's Faust and Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita. So with this in mind, as well as general difficulty, which one do you think would be the better choice?

Thanks :p

[cacian]

Oh my god. I would say being with neither. Try a less heavy condensed something . How about this little piece form Kipling. I find it rather enchanting and cuts through lots of rifraf:

Name the books that helped you
  On the path you've trod.
Do you use a little g
  When you write of God?
(R. Kipling)

See the irony is that you do notice Kipling writes it with a capital G and this means you and I use a small g which also means you or I do not fret about which answer to give. It is sweet poetry don't you think? :)

Now as for satan try the bible and google I would. Good and Bad is usually a good start.
Sorry if this did not help.:)

[jprevprev]

Yes, they are heavy texts but I wouldn't study for example the Divine Comedy in its entirety, just Inferno or anything that gives a more detailed depiction of Satan. That is a lovely poem though :)

[JCamilo]

It is not like either Satan or Lucifer is that close to Mephistoteles, but if english is your first language maybe you go for Milton first. In any case, each work demand their own study, but for Dante, Satan is almost a geographical detail of Hell , while Milton's Lucifer is an active character.

[Charles Darnay]

^Seconded. If you are studying portrayals of Satan specifically, you cannot miss out of Paradise Lost. Not that the Comedia isn't wonderful, and I recommend it - also I think it is easier reading than Milton.

[jprevprev]

Thanks for your input guys. Yes, I know that Satan and Mephistopheles are different, with the latter being a subordinate of Hell exclusive to the German legend. Maybe I should change the wording of the project to how the portrayal of demons has changed? That seems a more generic term that could be applicable to all.

[JCamilo]

well, you can compare them of course, Satan of Milton is aristocratic, a defeated nobleman, Mephistoteles is a popular kind of devil, in Faust, is almost a trader. It has a potential for a lot of work for you. Faust legend can be your guide, many great works based on this idea, because demons change as contacts with new religions changes the mainstrem religion and you have a thousand kind of demons.

[JBI]

Milton pretty much invented the modern Satan.

[Raven Falcon.]

Milton pretty much invented the modern Satan.
Do you intend to disregard the greatness of The Divine Comedy?

Paradise Lost is not as three-dimensional as Dante's magnum opus. No literary work is.

[Lokasenna]

Milton pretty much invented the modern Satan.

Whilst I would agree with what JBI says, if you're interested in the changing portrayal of Satan then have a look at the Old English poem Genesis B - it foreshadows Milton's Satan in the most amazing way (indeed, Milton may have in fact read the poem), and represents a very early radical approach to interpreting the Devil.

[cacian]

How I feel I should rename them this way:
The House of Milton and the House of Dante. It sounds very medieval :)

[JCamilo]

It's not disrepects to the Divine Comedy, Satan is not as relevant as character for Dante, who made more our vision of Hell. I only disagree a little, because there is not only one modern Satan. Faust appresents another kind of devil and the whimiscal, soul-trading Satan is also a modern one. It is present in The Devil and Daniel Bennet and it is not the same as the noble Satan of Milton. You will find him in popular folk tales, this kind of Satan that offer gifts maybe a left-over of islamic devils as ifrits. Here in Brazil, you have him in Guimaraes Rosa (Grande Sertões Vereda) or Ariano Suassuna (Auto da Compadecida). Brother Grimms and all folk tale colectors will have some folk tale with him, sometimes giving him some nobility of character, but not the same as Milton (more a variation of the powerful-evil faery lord).

[cacian]

Here is an idea:
Found out why the different names for one evil character? God only has one. Lucifer has many. Oh it
might be a play on words. The different faces/shades/nuances of evil.

The other thing I must add one is not confuse power with disobedience and disillusionment. God is powerful but lucifer is indignant fake and above all weak which makes him the character that he is today. Without all these characteristics of bad evil and above all careless and a he, he would not stand a chance to appeal to anyone. Take all the nastiness out and he is as common as the wind.
The other point is this: Lucifer is also masculin meaning a he. Could he have a been a female in previous life? One must wonder. I am guessing his evileness and his existence was through his hatred of feminity because he saw it as weakeness and masculinity as powerful.
So I am thinking lucifer came to be because he rejected feminity and god decided to spare his life and thus turned him into a man which explains lucifer coming to being.
lucifer by my own conclusion is a misogynist turned man because he denied feminity as right to be or to claim.
This highlights the idea of how important aesthetism ie looks is to lucifer. It goes to show how little lucifer understands about the human mind body and above intellect.
So to conclude I see lucifer as a fake weak character a woman hater not all powerful as he is portrayed to be.
Remember god changed him from a woman to a man. God is the hand that feeds him. Lucifer is at the hand of god without him god lucifer would neither here or there.
In my eyes the story goes like this:
god created him a woman he lucifer refused to be a she and so god said ok I will make you a man but with one thing in mind you are never going to be both. And so lucifer came to be what he is now described to be.
I like this version of events. :)

[Lokasenna]

Here is an idea:
Found out why the different names for one evil character? God only has one. Lucifer has many.

Umm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God

[JCamilo]

Lucifer could be a female in the previous life is awesome. :D

[cacian]

Umm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God
Lokasenna thanks!!

Lucifer could be a female in the previous life is awesome. :D

Isn't it just :D

[stlukesguild]

JCamilo... don't encourage her. The next thing you know she's going to start positing that Lucifer was a drag queen... like Jesus and Julius Caesar... which explains his banishment from heaven.

[JCamilo]

Thinking more like this, Stlukes :D

8628

[stlukesguild]

JCamilo... I should have known... it seems you thinking more of Bernard Shaw's "Hell" (Man and Superman) where the damned are far more fun to be with... than of either Milton or Dante's Hell.

http://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/sexy-devil-atheist.jpg

http://www.petshopboxstudio.com/blog-upload/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Devil-Girl.jpg

Now ftil ought to show up any minute and give us her take on the devil as an invention of the Freemasons, Jesuits, the Rosicrucians, Giordano Bruno, Leon Battista Alberti, Jung, Marsilio Ficino, and heaven knows who else.

[cacian]

JCamilo... don't encourage her. The next thing you know she's going to start positing that Lucifer was a drag queen... like Jesus and Julius Caesar... which explains his banishment from heaven.

Well all in good intentions. One must celebrate one's feminity and masculinity. We are all I believe a perfect bit of both.