Education

[The Kid]

I haven't posted anything here for a long time mostly because I was busy with school, which is somewhat related to my topic today. In the past year I became disillusioned with education - not just public education, or education here in California, but all education. I don't understand why a huge monopoly over education exists; I think this is the case really anywhere, but if I am wrong and this is only true in my small world, then please correct me. The past few days' events regarding Aaron Swartz have only emphasized my thoughts and I feel a need to speak.

I attended public school until high school. Then I switched to a private Jesuit-run all boys college preparatory high school that I attend now. One of the most disheartening things about any school is its reliance on funding. Currently the teachers in my former public school district are demonstrating against their existing contracts. Some want more pay, others want better benefits, but the basic desire is for some sort of improvement. But this union-wide demonstration only impacts the students, who no longer have the opportunity for any extra-curricular activities to supplement an already tight budget. My schools used to be a safe haven for me, but now I see the current students will never get to enjoy what I had.

Jesuit education is different. My school specifically is extremely well funded and, despite all the Jesuit focus on social justice, I still think most of the students are too priveleged to care beyond their small worlds centered around themselves.

When I go into my current school's library, I see most guys sitting around and chatting with friends or surfing the internet. Many are on their own ipads, which are a common good at this school. Next year the school will adopt a 1:1 student-to-ipad ratio, so expect a tuition increase. I look around and I see no one looking at books, which in my opinion is the best part of the library. I see the best collection of reference books I have ever seen in one room (no joke) and yet no one notices. There is an entire section on human rights that I frequent. Almost ten shelves of Catholic theology. Books about philosophy, religion, drugs, biology, medicine, sex, French, Latin, Ernest Hemingway, Spanish, Greek, German, the Arab Spring revolutions, and just about everything else. There are some people in the world who don't even know they are entitled to human rights, yet here is a list of them. If I decide to leave this school, I lose access to all this. Imagine those who never had access in the first place.

The local public high school is known for holding over 2500 students on a campus built for 1800. Most of my friends go there and I hear frequently of how bad it is. My sister attended this school and transferred out in junior year because they refused to let her take more than 4 classes where any other school offers six or even seven.

According to everything I learned growing up, a person must receive a college education if they wish for others to see them as more than the dirt under the shoes of the world. Without a college degree a person is a failure. This should not be the case.

Half my family consists of hardworking immigrants who never went to college. They encourage all us youth to stay in school. I guess they are all failures.

Why?

I can complain for years but I suppose what I want is an answer. Because this is impossible to answer I would like to hear anyone's opinions, regardless of how unqualified you think you are. I don't think a college degree makes anyone more qualified to speak, especially regarding education.

[Charles Darnay]

It is interesting to see what is going on in the public system right now in California, because the same actions (with the same consequence) are happening in Ontario as well - and I can tell you that from the other side (I am teacher) there is equal frustration.

As for the disparity between public and private school - this is more prominent in some countries and less in others, but as a general rule, private schools are better funded and better equipped. That being said, there are more factors than money facing how students succeed and the percentage that go on to higher education. And public school students have just as much a chance to get into college. What you tend to find (and I may be generalizing) is a correlation between private school attendance and parental involvement. If parents are going to be paying large sums of money to put their kids through elementary/high school, they generally take more of an interest in their "investment" when compared to public school students. This can have both positive and negative impacts.

As for the college degree as a requirement, this is an unfortunate conditioning that the first world has undergone over the past century. Look up Sir Ken Robinson's TED talks for more - I think you'd like them.

[The Kid]

I can't say I know if this same thing occurs throughout California, but it is definitely hitting my district. I hate to see all my former teachers in the public school, many of whom are also my friends now, displaying how strongly money controls knowledge. By demonstrating, they only show their students that schools are primarily run as a business and not as a beacon of knowledge and learning.

I have more attachment to my state than to my country, which is not common anymore, but I have the most attachment to my local community. The community is centered around education, and when this fails, so do we all.

[ralfyman]

The current system of formal education stemmed from a need to fulfill requirements of capitalist systems. Ultimately, a return to simpler means of learning will take place given de-industrialization caused by various global crises.

[The Kid]

I am also of the opinion that capitalism has a lot to do with it. But I can't imagine the United States ever changing, so I think any reforms must work within the existing system, sadly.

But still, there must be something better than this . . .

[JBI]

I'm a Canadian who is a product of the public school system. I see problems with it, but it is sure better here than the States. Public education in the United States is regarded as something laughable. I met so many New Yorkers who moved to Toronto and paid Foreign Student tuition in order to bypass the steep prices for private Ed. in the US.

That being said, on the public level, I have no idea. It isn't the teacher's fault, nor the students, merely the system. England is perhaps even more grossly divided in education from a young age. It does not matter who has an Ipad or whatever.

That being said, the majority of education comes from the home, even if one is not homeschooled. This in turn is biased against people whose parents are less busy, or have more financial capital at their disposal. The remedy for this is actually to increase school time, rather than decrease it, and thereby allow for a balance act. Already the schools do something of the sort, and in Toronto at least, public programming was quite available. I am not sure about the US, as I am not an American system, but I assume it is far more no-frills.

Lets just say I am very Anti-Private school, while I am at the same time admitting of the fact the education in many instances is better. I do not believe one should need to pay for education, regardless of the level, as is the case in many places, again, not the US.

In point of fact, with government hand outs I actually made money over my tuition while attending university. tuition was pushing on 5500-6000$, but the government gave me about 8000-10000$ a year, for various reasons. Dental and health plans also lent themselves to me, as I had the student union replace all the fillings in my mouth, and fix my teeth up nicely.

The American policy I believe requires students to buy a major healthcare plan, something which Canadian students are exempt from (we have the majority of things covered for free by our government already). The fact of the matter is the entire economic structure of the United States is centered around private enterprise, yet the government cannot control its spending.

The freedom of institutions has lead to many of the best universities in the world being American, yet at the same time, this does not mean the student experience on the Undergraduate level is something to brag about. A Ph.D. from Harvard is one thing, a BA from Cornell will hardly get anybody a million dollar job.

[Ecurb]

I'm a Canadian who is a product of the public school system. I see problems with it, but it is sure better here than the States. Public education in the United States is regarded as something laughable.
.

I'm sick of people denigrating U.S. schools. I was educated in the American public school system, and I can add any two numbers (up to 4 digits), lickety split. I can multiply and divide, too (if I have my calculator with me). Also, I can spell. I can spell some words that don't even exist. That's the kind of thing kids never learn under Communism. Canadians are communists with national health care, so they don't need to learn basic things, like how to steal drugs from pharmacies, how to welch on medical bills, and how to declare bankruptcy. American students are taught these basic skills by the fourth grade. A child is not allowed to matriculate into middle school unless he can demonstrate how to get admitted into a Hospital Emergency Room using a false identity.

[Scheherazade]

Look up Sir Ken Robinson's TED talks for more - I think you'd like them.Hey, that is my line!

Let's not turn this thread into a country-bickering, please.

[The Kid]

Let's not turn this thread into a country-bickering, please.


I don't mean to. I have almost no idea what education is like in Canada. I assumed it was more similar to the United States, but I guess not. But I find it interesting that the $5500-6000 tuition cost for JBI's university is less than the $15000 tuition cost for my high school.

Honestly, I'm not trying to complain about the United States's education system only. The only country beyond the United States that I have ever experienced is México, and I never attended school there, though I am considering it for the future. My feelings are that education is a difficult thing, which varies for each student. I know of no country that has found a way to accomodate all its students so they can learn to their fullest potential.

I like to hear what education is like elsewhere, but I don't mean to start political insults. If anything, this proves how education and politics connect closely, reinforcing my disappointment.

[Charles Darnay]

Canadians are communists with national health care, so they don't need to learn basic things, like how to steal drugs from pharmacies, how to welch on medical bills, and how to declare bankruptcy.

Yes, we Canadians are taught how to harvest wheat and give it to the state, how to corrupt honest youth with left-wing ideas, and how to destroy every facet of commercialization - this is an elementary education.

[Scheherazade]

~

This thread is now closed due to nationalistic horn-tooting.

~