The Diet/Fitness Thread

[Calidore]

People have occasionally mentioned taking up diet and exercise--most recently Neely, who has been very happy with his paleo diet--so I thought I'd start a thread for people to announce or cheerlead as applicable. Starting with *sigh* me. Here's my testimony:

Ye Bathroome Scayle of Harrd Truthe now has me topping 240, which is too much even at my height. Thus, I'm joining the trendy New Year diet/fitness bandwagon. Rule #1 for doing this: Tell your family and friends as a deterrent to wimping out.

My plan:

Fitness: I decided not to renew my old Bally's Gym membership just yet, because I know at my age I probably shouldn't just jump into working out hard like I could when I was in my early 20s and trying to gain weight. Also it's winter, and it would be too easy not to feel like making the trip. I therefore decided to give workout yoga a try, because it's relatively equipment-free, it's a good way to ease into fitness, and it's something I can do at home while the kid's at school. Happily, the Consumersearch website has recommendations both for yoga videos and mats. I immediately liked their pick for a beginner's yoga video--Kimberly Fowler's No Om Zone--because she's a former triathlete who goes for the meat of exercise yoga without the spirituality or new-agey cultural baggage ("no chanting, no granola..."). So I ordered that and a couple other videos for later, plus the budget mat and yoga towel Consumersearch also recommended. The mat's especially nice because it's reported to be a high-quality form of cheap, and at 74 inches long it will accommodate me at 75 inches long.

Diet: This part's harder, because I find the whole process of food preparation--researching recipes, shopping for specific ingredients, proper cooking from recipes as opposed to throwing stuff together that seems like it would be good together--tremendously boring. But a man's gotta do.... Consumersearch's pick for a diet book, Volumetrics, looked promising, because it's a common-sense diet that's about helping you eat smarter rather than just less ("feel full on fewer calories"). I double-checked it against U.S. News and World Report's latest diet evaluation (they hired 22 health and nutrition professionals to evaluate and grade 25 diets), and Volumetrics placed 5th out of 25. That twin recommendation is good enough for me. As a supplement, the Mayo Clinic (ranked 3rd/25) website also has a bunch of recipes and info about healthier eating. Luckily, my body fat turned out to be better than I expected, so I can make exercise the primary focus and just go for moderate dietary changes to start with.

Last purchase was the EatSmart Precision GetFit Digital Body Fat Scale (quite a heavy name for a diet scale), which not only came highly recommended, but which also has a company VP actively checking out the Amazon reviews and responding immediately to problems. For $55, this scale checks your weight, body fat, muscle mass, and water mass. The manual does specifically say that those last three aren't precise and should be used to to gauge trends rather than just taking the numbers as gospel. I've had it for a week now and have pretty good averages to go by. My body fat reading surprised me, as that's only around 25.5%, which is at the high end of normal according to the included chart. So if I were to lose 25 fat pounds, I'd be at 220 with only about 14% body fat. That means I'm definitely carrying more muscle than I deserve to; I guess all the walking I do does some good after all. Unfortunately, I get the impression from what I've read that your body naturally metabolizes muscle mass when exercising hard, and that controlling that & just targeting fat is difficult. Still, I now have goal #1: Lose 25 pounds while improving the remaining 220, then see where the percentages are and come up with goal #2 from there.

Official starting stats:

Age bracket: 40-50
Height: 6'3"
Weight: 245.0
Approx. body fat: 25.5%
Approx. muscle mass: 36.8%
Approx. water mass: 45.8%

Official "Before" picture here:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?12486-Lit-Network-Photoalbum&p=1198006&viewfull=1#post1198006

Wish me luck.

[qimissung]

That is a very admirable plan, Calidore. May I say that before I saw your picture I thought it was going to be a lot worse? :D You also don't look that old. When you were talking about not going back to the gym because of your age, I thought you must be old, but you look quite young and not even that out of shape.

OK, I'll bite, but I can't bring myself to be that specific with my plans. Currently I am committed to healthier eating, which means more green vegetables! And right now I'm walking about two miles two to three times a week. I would like to add yoga and the kettle bell to that, but so far that hasn't happened. So I'd like to continue walking and hopefully will increase the length of time that I walk. I'd like to add yoga; right now I'm learning the salute to the sun. After that I'll add the kettle bell workout.

As far as food, I'm leaning toward a Mediterranean diet. I got the Sonoma cookbook. So, mostly chicken, or salmon or tilapia with vegetables. I just need to learn a few more ways to cook these things. I love the fish. The salmon broils up fast, but plain salmon gets a little old. Lentils are also wonderful. I also want to add to my repertoire of recipes that use sriracha, which I just discovered and which is absolutely marvelous and delicious.

I actually only need to lose about five pounds, but I have a sweet tooth, and I lost a few pounds initially, but nothing lately. I don't think I can quit chocolate, but I do make it dark chocolate.

[Calidore]

That is a very admirable plan, Calidore. May I say that before I saw your picture I thought it was going to be a lot worse? :D You also don't look that old. When you were talking about not going back to the gym because of your age, I thought you must be old, but you look quite young and not even that out of shape.

You're extremely kind, but I've put on 85 pounds in the last 20 years or so, and I see them every time I look in the mirror. I certainly don't mind not being skinny anymore, but I'd prefer to be a healthy, strong kind of burly rather than my current kind.


OK, I'll bite, but I can't bring myself to be that specific with my plans. Currently I am committed to healthier eating, which means more green vegetables! And right now I'm walking about two miles two to three times a week. I would like to add yoga and the kettle bell to that, but so far that hasn't happened. So I'd like to continue walking and hopefully will increase the length of time that I walk. I'd like to add yoga; right now I'm learning the salute to the sun. After that I'll add the kettle bell workout.

What's "kettle bell"?


As far as food, I'm leaning toward a Mediterranean diet. I got the Sonoma cookbook. So, mostly chicken, or salmon or tilapia with vegetables. I just need to learn a few more ways to cook these things. I love the fish. The salmon broils up fast, but plain salmon gets a little old. Lentils are also wonderful. I also want to add to my repertoire of recipes that use sriracha, which I just discovered and which is absolutely marvelous and delicious.

I do love eating Mediterranean food, just not making it. There are a lot of good Mediterranean restaurants in Chicago, happily.


I actually only need to lose about five pounds, but I have a sweet tooth, and I lost a few pounds initially, but nothing lately. I don't think I can quit chocolate, but I do make it dark chocolate.

I'm not a big chocolate eater, but occasionally if it's with something else like mint. My vice is ice cream/sorbet/frozen yogurt. Hasn't helped that some form of the good stuff is always on sale in whatever store I'm shopping in.

[qimissung]

A kettelbell is a small weight with a handle. They can be quite heavy, but mine is not. Once you start swinging it around, though, they certainly feel heavier and heavier.

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettlebell

[Delta40]

Now that sounds painful qimi. Good luck Calidore. sounds like you're planning it well. I was told by my physio to only weigh myself at the minimum of every two weeks to keep perspective. There were a few reasons. Some of it was to do with building muscle mass from working out and some of it was to ensure that I stay focused on wellness and good health and not just on weight loss. What's your plan there?

[qimissung]

lol, the one I have is only 5 pounds, Delta.

[Calidore]

A kettelbell is a small weight with a handle. They can be quite heavy, but mine is not. Once you start swinging it around, though, they certainly feel heavier and heavier.

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettlebell

Oh, those things. I've seen them but didn't know they were called kettlebells.


I actually only need to lose about five pounds


lol, the one I have is only 5 pounds, Delta.

So put down the weight. Done. :devil:


Now that sounds painful qimi. Good luck Calidore. sounds like you're planning it well. I was told by my physio to only weigh myself at the minimum of every two weeks to keep perspective. There were a few reasons. Some of it was to do with building muscle mass from working out and some of it was to ensure that I stay focused on wellness and good health and not just on weight loss. What's your plan there?

Don't really have one there. Yeah, weighing yourself daily is pointless because you won't see results daily (or if you do, you're going too fast). I'll probably just weigh myself when I feel like looking. :)

[Sancho]

Breakfast: A bowl of oatmeal with blueberries, a glass of OJ, and a double espresso

Went for a run

Lunch: Turkey and Swiss on Rye with a fizzy water

Dinner: Asian salad and an iced tea

Felt pretty good

Read for a while (Eat The Document, by Dana Spiotta)

Went to bed immensely pleased with myself

Had a dream, dreamt I was one of the Keebler Elves

Awoke at around 1am, wandered into the kitchen, ate 37 chocolate chip cookies

Planning to get back with the program starting tomorrow

[qimissung]

lol, That sounds like me everyday. :D

[Calidore]

May I say that before I saw your picture I thought it was going to be a lot worse? :D You also don't look that old. When you were talking about not going back to the gym because of your age, I thought you must be old, but you look quite young and not even that out of shape.

My mother, on the other hand, just wrote back and said she found the picture "quite startling." Will you be my new mom?

[LitNetIsGreat]

Good stuff.


Diet: This part's harder, because I find the whole process of food preparation--researching recipes, shopping for specific ingredients, proper cooking from recipes as opposed to throwing stuff together that seems like it would be good together--tremendously boring. But a man's gotta do....

There's nothing wrong with just throwing stuff together, that about sums up my cooking style. I've a thing for scrambled eggs at the moment, I'm going through about 30-40 eggs a week, throw a quality sausage in there and I'm a happy man. The bottom line is that food doesn't have to be a pain to prepare. Wrap a chicken breast in foil and put it in the oven for 25 minutes is not cooking, it is opening and and closing a door! If you see what I am getting at?

Without preaching paleo too much (it is difficult!) I would advise cutting down on carbs generally (carbs from breads, pasta, wheat etc, not fruit and veg) and filling up on good fats and proteins! What is healthy is good, natural foods, free from junk. This turns out to be vegetables, fruit, meats, eggs, nuts - oh hey, paleo/primal food!!:biggrinjester:

Where I am with my food is adopting the sensible 80/20 - that is 80% of my food falls into meat, vegetables, fruit, eggs and 20% anything else. This means that if I do fancy a few biscuits or a sandwich (or beer of course) then it is not a problem. This works for me because it is in-line with everything I already enjoy eating, it's just normal you have to go with what suits you though, I'm sure you'll find your own happy medium.

[Sancho]

I read somewhere that Cary Grant never worked out or went to the gym a day in his life, and yet he remained fit until the day he died. He said his secret was he always took the stairs, never the elevator. Might be a challenge, Calidore, if you work in the Sears Tower up there.

[cacian]

This makes me think about mental flexibly and its exercise. Many go on diets and fitness plans but forget that the same could be said about mental exercise and its fitness. Is there such as thing as fitness for the mind?

[LitNetIsGreat]

This makes me think about mental flexibly and its exercise. Many go on diets and fitness plans but forget that the same could be said about mental exercise and its fitness. Is there such as thing as fitness for the mind?

Yes of course, the mind needs exercise too. Puzzles, books and ... that sort of thing, it's all good mental exercise.


I read somewhere that Cary Grant never worked out or went to the gym a day in his life, and yet he remained fit until the day he died. He said his secret was he always took the stairs, never the elevator. Might be a challenge, Calidore, if you work in the Sears Tower up there.

Absolutely, the gym is such an artificial thing. If you're smart you can build fitness around daily life.

[qimissung]

My mother, on the other hand, just wrote back and said she found the picture "quite startling." Will you be my new mom?

haha. Sure. Now eat your vegetables. :D

One thing about the gym, it's warm. Technically I should go on a walk today, but it's cold out there and it just seems very unappealing. What to do, what to do...

[Bluehound]

I spent most of last year suffering from unexplained sickness and stomach pains, I lost alot of weight and became deficient in all kinds of vitamins as well as anaemic.

I eventually found out I have an auto-immune thing that was inflaming my intestines so I had to look at other ways of getting my nutrition in an easier way to digest and so discovered juicing.

I love juicing it gives me energy and all the vitamins I need in a healthy drink, substitute it for one or two meals a day ( for me thats breakfast) and you can use it as a great tool for weight control ( especially as I am putting the weight back on now I am taking meds and healthy again).

Next week I will be doing a few days of juice fast where I will only be having juices for every meal, to let my tummy rest after Christmas and a ski holiday excesses. :biggrin5:

[Volya]

I am, like many others it would appear, trying to get in better shape this year. I'm already in pretty good shape, so I'll admit that it is mostly due to vanity and a desire to get stronger. So for Christmas I acquired a 50kg barbell set in addition to the weights I already have, and I have been using them regularly so far :)

[Calidore]

I read somewhere that Cary Grant never worked out or went to the gym a day in his life, and yet he remained fit until the day he died. He said his secret was he always took the stairs, never the elevator. Might be a challenge, Calidore, if you work in the Sears Tower up there.

Even when I was much thinner, my knees never liked me overdoing stairs, which the Sears (now Willis, actually) Tower would definitely be. I'm not big on heights anyway, so I'd try not to work there if I could avoid it. They do have an annual stair-climbing race from the lobby to the skydeck as a benefit for something or other.

Cary Grant had disgustingly good genes more than anything else, and us normal humans should never compare ourselves to him, lest we sink into depression.


Absolutely, the gym is such an artificial thing. If you're smart you can build fitness around daily life.

Reminds me of Rocky IV where Dolph Lundgren is training in an ultra-high-tech gym while Rocky runs through snow, climbs mountains, and chops firewood. Frankly, I'd happily take the warm gym full of other people also trying to get in shape.


I am, like many others it would appear, trying to get in better shape this year. I'm already in pretty good shape, so I'll admit that it is mostly due to vanity and a desire to get stronger. So for Christmas I acquired a 50kg barbell set in addition to the weights I already have, and I have been using them regularly so far :)

I used to have some weights when I was younger. The main lessons I learned from them were:

1) Kicking them when barefoot in the dark HURTS LIKE %$&^@!
2) When you move, you have to move them too.
3) None of the friends helping you move will want to move them.
4) After loading all the big, heavy furniture, books, etc., neither will you.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Reminds me of Rocky IV where Dolph Lundgren is training in an ultra-high-tech gym while Rocky runs through snow, climbs mountains, and chops firewood. Frankly, I'd happily take the warm gym full of other people also trying to get in shape.

HA, HA. Not me. I'd rather run through the snow and help peasants by lifting carts and go about chopping wood. Having said that...:cold:

[islandclimber]

I am, like many others it would appear, trying to get in better shape this year. I'm already in pretty good shape, so I'll admit that it is mostly due to vanity and a desire to get stronger. So for Christmas I acquired a 50kg barbell set in addition to the weights I already have, and I have been using them regularly so far :)

I was a personal trainer for a couple years and I always found the best results were had with a style of training that was of the functional sort. A combination of exercises with an emphasis on bodyweight movements, especially learning to move one's own body. Weights were superb for lower-body, compound lifts (ie. Squats and Olympic lifts), yet for the upper body, bodyweight was king. A gymastic style of sorts. Of course, to begin, a gymnastics-light. Beginner progressions for handstands, l-sits, planches, levers, etc. Even lower body, single leg movements such as one-leg squats and certain more unilateral forms of jumping, bounding, and lunges, worked very well. And the best part is these things are quite easy to do at home.

[Delta40]

I'm on my 6th day of not smoking and can't believe how easy it was to let it go this time after preparing for it. I was already reading stuff on quitting and Calidore's thread only added to the whole idea of putting the plan in place. I've got my own quitting thread on another site which has come in handy as I didn't realise other smokers would get on board so positively. So breathing better when I'm walking, playing badminton will be a real bonus and I think another stint in the gym will be more pleasurable because I won't get so short of breath so fast.

Good thread.

[2X2E5]

A possible suggestion/idea for your dietary plans...my father's currently faced with aborting his (probably) 20 kilogram food baby, as a result he's taking a two step diet. The first step is really radical and stressful, mainly because it consists of only eating greens and small portions of lean meat. But his plan in a couple months sounds too good to be true, but has produced results for others. There's this agency in Toronto that makes fresh food and delivers a days worth of meals to your doorstep every morning. What they do is, you enter the amount of calories you'd like to digest during each day/week/month, and they take ordinary healthy food, with occasional treats (with your approval) and they prepare the food, deliver it, and create the portions according to your desired calorie intake. According to some of my dad's friends, it was even to much food for them to eat! Although Im not to sure about that, unless they boiled/steamed everything, nonetheless it sounded compelling. I think the price for this service is 1000$ a month. Quite expensive but if you eat a lot (restaurant, groceries, etc) then its not like their ripping people off, and it takes away the trouble of calculating nutrition, calories, spend time to make food. Maybe there's something similar in your living environment.

[Calidore]

Progress update, about a month in:

Turns out yoga can be pretty tough. I still can't quite do everything on the Kimberly Fowler DVD (a couple of balance poses and one brutal upper-body transition are beyond me yet), but I can do some things that I couldn't at the start, and I'm making small but noticeable general forward progress every workout. I'm also not quite up to three sessions a week yet--the couple times I've tried skipping only one day, I could especially feel it in my shoulders and lower back. I'm trying to be very careful about allowing myself enough recovery time so I don't damage something. The main thing I have to remember is that even when I'm in good condition, I'll still be having to pose holding up twice her weight (in addition to my not being a former professional triathlete), so it'll never be as easy for me. I have to focus on trying to extend my own limits, not matching her abilities.

Happily, the scale agrees that I'm making progress. I'm down four pounds to 241, body fat is down exactly 1% to 24.5, muscle mass is up just over 1% to 38.0.

[qimissung]

Progress update, about a month in:

Turns out yoga can be pretty tough. I still can't quite do everything on the Kimberly Fowler DVD (a couple of balance poses and one brutal upper-body transition are beyond me yet), but I can do some things that I couldn't at the start, and I'm making small but noticeable general forward progress every workout. I'm also not quite up to three sessions a week yet--the couple times I've tried skipping only one day, I could especially feel it in my shoulders and lower back. I'm trying to be very careful about allowing myself enough recovery time so I don't damage something. The main thing I have to remember is that even when I'm in good condition, I'll still be having to pose holding up twice her weight (in addition to my not being a former professional triathlete), so it'll never be as easy for me. I have to focus on trying to extend my own limits, not matching her abilities.

Happily, the scale agrees that I'm making progress. I'm down four pounds to 241, body fat is down exactly 1% to 24.5, muscle mass is up just over 1% to 38.0.

:hurray: Good for you, Calidore! Yes, you gotta be careful with yoga! Once I was doing Yoga with a CD, I can't remember who, but she was wonderfully lithe, and over the course of a week, in trying the triangle pose, I injured my rotator cuff. It took a year before it stopped hurting. So go slowly, and listen to your body. The Salute to the Sun is another good place to start.

[qimissung]

I was a personal trainer for a couple years and I always found the best results were had with a style of training that was of the functional sort. A combination of exercises with an emphasis on bodyweight movements, especially learning to move one's own body. Weights were superb for lower-body, compound lifts (ie. Squats and Olympic lifts), yet for the upper body, bodyweight was king. A gymastic style of sorts. Of course, to begin, a gymnastics-light. Beginner progressions for handstands, l-sits, planches, levers, etc. Even lower body, single leg movements such as one-leg squats and certain more unilateral forms of jumping, bounding, and lunges, worked very well. And the best part is these things are quite easy to do at home.

Can you maybe give a few specific suggestions, Islandclimber? Thanks.

[Sancho]

Went for a long run yesterday. Got passed by a woman pushing a baby-jogger.

*sigh*

[Calidore]

All the yoga stretches seem to be working. I've just discovered that, for the first time in my life, I can touch my toes straight-legged. Even when younger and much thinner, I was never able to extend that far. Progress!

Delta, how's things with quitting smoking?

[Calidore]

Working out with the Kimberly Fowler DVD on Friday, I actually managed both side arm balances for the first time, meaning I can finally execute her entire plank routine, meaning I've finally been able to do everything on her DVD. Thinking back to how much I struggled to do or just couldn't do at the beginning, I'm very happy.

I previewed the "easy" workout on the Bryan Kest Power Yoga DVD today, to see if I should consider a promotion, and I think that's still way past my level of fitness. However, he did deliver my favorite yoga instructor line so far: "That's why we gotta be where we're at, 'cause you're already there."

[Darcy88]

I just do kickboxing every day and go for a run 3-5 times a week. I used to be into bodybuilding and then power-lifting but I much prefer having a smaller slimmer physique. I'm semi bulimic and that definitely helps keep my weight down.

I know a few people who do P90X and they all swear by it. My mother struggled desperately with being over-weight for 15 years. Tried everything and nothing worked. Then she started doing P90X and almost magically after a few months she lost a dramatic amount of weight and is no longer overweight.

I used to be able to pick 640 pounds off the floor deadlifting. Now I'd probably injure my back doing 200.

The best diet is poverty.

[Buh4Bee]

I try to watch what I eat and I walk the dog. If I stay out of the booze bottle, I can really keep myself trim. Drinking is a lot of empty extra calories.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

....Thinking back to how much I struggled to do or just couldn't do at the beginning, I'm very happy.....

Here's to you Calidore (raising glass of red wine)
Looks like you're sticking with it after several months since you started this thread.
As for me, I just finished a mediocre run. I couldn't begin to tell you what my weight, body fat, etc., is, I'm just doing enough to keep my breeches waist size from exceeding the inseam length.

[Calidore]

Thanks very much, Gilliatt! Unfortunately, I'm too late on the pants size (40/36 when I started), but I've recently taken the belt in by one hole, so hopefully I'll be buying for a 38 waist soon.

[cafolini]

This thread is what we needed. Hope people with knowledge post here about health.

[cafolini]

I was on a weekend trip with some friends recently and one of my friends was cooking breakfast for the whole group. I went over to see what he was cooking and saw he was getting ready to make a big batch of eggs.

Well, to my shock and horror, I noticed that he was cracking the eggs open and screening the egg whites into a bowl and throwing out the egg yolks. I asked him why the heck he was throwing out the egg yolks, and he replied something like this...

"because I thought the egg yolks were terrible for you...that's where all the nasty fat and cholesterol is".

And I replied something along the lines of... "you mean that's where all of the nutrition is!"

This is a perfect example of how confused most people are about nutrition. In a world full of misinformation about nutrition, somehow most people now mistakenly think that the egg yolk is the worst part of the egg, when in fact, the YOLK IS THE HEALTHIEST PART OF THE EGG! It's a shame at how many restaurants you can walk into these days and see that the "healthy" breakfast menu always has egg white items instead of whole eggs. Are we really still in the "fat-phobic" 80's?

By throwing out the yolk and only eating egg whites, you're essentially throwing out the most nutrient dense, antioxidant-rich, vitamin and mineral loaded portion of the egg. The yolks contain so many B-vitamins, trace minerals, vitamin A, folate, choline, lutein, and other powerful nutrients... it's not even worth trying to list them all.

In fact, the egg whites are almost devoid of nutrition compared to the yolks.

Even the protein in egg whites isn't as powerful without the yolks to balance out the amino acid profile and make the protein more bio-available. Not to even mention that the egg yolks from free range chickens are loaded with healthy omega-3 fatty acids.

Yolks contain more than 90% of the calcium, iron, phosphorus, zinc, thiamin, B6, folate, and B12, and panthothenic acid of the egg. In addition, the yolks contain ALL of the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K in the egg, as well as ALL of the essential fatty acids (EFAs).

And now the common objection I get all the time when I say that the yolks are the most nutritious part of the egg...

"But I heard that whole eggs will skyrocket my cholesterol through the roof"

No, this is FALSE!

First of all, when you eat a food that contains a high amount of dietary cholesterol such as eggs, your body down-regulates it's internal production of cholesterol to balance things out.

On the other hand, if you don't eat enough cholesterol, your body simply produces more since cholesterol has dozens of important vital functions in the body.

And here's where it gets even more interesting...

There have been plenty of studies lately that indicate that eating whole eggs actually raises your good HDL cholesterol to a higher degree than LDL cholesterol, thereby improving your overall cholesterol ratio and blood chemistry.

And 3rd... high cholesterol is NOT a disease! Heart disease is a disease...but high cholesterol is NOT. Cholesterol is actually a VERY important substance in your body and has vitally important functions... it is DEAD WRONG to try to "lower your cholesterol" just because of pharmaceutical companies propaganda that everyone on the planet should be on statin drugs.


In addition, the yolks contain the antioxidant lutein as well as other antioxidants which can help protect you from inflammation within your body (the REAL culprit in heart disease, not dietary cholesterol!), giving yet another reason why the yolks are actually GOOD for you, and not detrimental.

To help bring even more proof that whole eggs are better for you than egg whites, I recently read a University of Connecticut study that showed that a group of men in the study that ate 3 eggs per day for 12 weeks while on a reduced carb, higher fat diet increased their HDL good cholesterol by 20%, while their LDL bad cholesterol stayed the same during the study. However, the group that ate egg substitutes (egg whites) saw no change in either and did not see the improvement in good cholesterol (remember that higher HDL levels are associated with lower risk of heart disease) that the whole egg eaters did.

So I hope we've established that whole eggs are not some evil food that will wreck your body... instead whole eggs are FAR superior to egg whites.

But what about the extra calories in the yolks?

This is actually a non-issue and here's why... even though egg yolks contain more calories than just eating the egg whites, the yolks have such a high micro-nutrient density in those calories, that it increases your overall nutrient density per calorie you consume. Essentially, what this does is help to regulate your appetite for the remainder of the day, so you end up eating less calories overall. In addition, the healthy fats in the egg yolks help to maintain a good level of fat-burning hormones in your body.

Overall, this means that the extra fats (healthy fats) and calories from the yolk are so nutrient-dense that they actually HELP you to burn off body fat!

Also, your normal supermarket eggs coming from mass factory farming just don't compare nutritionally with organic free range eggs from healthy chickens that are allowed to roam freely and eat a more natural diet. Your typical cheap grocery store eggs will have lower nutrient levels and a higher omega-6 level and lower omega-3 level. On the other hand, the cage-free organic eggs from healthier chickens allowed to eat more natural feed and roam freely will have much higher vitamin and mineral levels and a more balanced healthier omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acid ratio.

I recently compared eggs I bought at the grocery store with a batch of eggs I got at a farm stand where the chickens were free roaming and healthy.

Most people don't realize that there's a major difference because they've never bought real eggs from healthy chickens... The eggs from the grocery store had pale yellow yolks and thin weak shells. On the other hand, the healthier free range eggs from the local farm had strong thick shells and deep orange colored yolks indicating much higher nutrition levels and carotenoids... and just a healthier egg in general.

This is due to the fact that a free-roaming hen allowed to roam on plenty of land will eat a variety of greens, insects, worms, etc transferring MUCH higher levels of nutrients to the eggs compared to an unhealthy hen that is trapped inside a dark factory farm hen house in horrible conditions and fed nothing but piles of corn and soy. It's a DRASTIC difference in the nutrition that you get from the egg.

So next time a health or fitness professional tells you that egg whites are superior (because of their "fat-phobic" mentality towards dietary fats), you can quietly ignore their advice knowing that you now understand the REAL deal about egg yolks.

And can we all please STOP with this sillyness about eating an omelete with 4-5 egg whites and only 1 egg yolk... If you want real taste and real health benefits, we'd all be better off eating ALL of our eggs with the delicious nutrient-dense yolks.

Prepared by a nutrition expert.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Wow Cafolini are you feeling OK? There's more than a sarcy sentence there. Quite true about eggs though, and good fats - hey it turns out that eating natural food our bodies are adapted to eating is actually good for you, funny that. All of those millions of manufactured products in packets aren't actually needed. Let's wave the flag for common sense, let it prevail!!

[Darcy88]

I'm pulling an Adrien Brody in an effort to rapidly slim down. I've been eating only one mid-sized meal a day for the last week and I've already lost 6 pounds.

[Calidore]

That's not good, Darcy. Unless you're getting paid seven or more figures like he is and have the role of a lifetime waiting for you, scale it back a bit. Unhealthy-skinny is no better than unhealthy-fat.

[Darcy88]

That's not good, Darcy. Unless you're getting paid seven or more figures like he is and have the role of a lifetime waiting for you, scale it back a bit. Unhealthy-skinny is no better than unhealthy-fat.

I'll stop when I get to 150, which is not an unhealthy weight for me. I'm 165 now. I have an opportunity to get into modelling and I look best at and around 150.

[*Classic*Charm*]

Hey Cafolini, I'm not sure where you got the information in your post, but some of it is WRONG, and I feel the need to correct it. I, too, hate the propagation of misinformation, and there is a whole heck of a lot of it going around right now. So it's nothing personal, but your post is heavily biased and completely untrue in places, and given my background in nutrition and farm animal science, I feel the need to balance it out a little.


Also, your normal supermarket eggs coming from mass factory farming just don't compare nutritionally with organic free range eggs from healthy chickens that are allowed to roam freely and eat a more natural diet. Your typical cheap grocery store eggs will have lower nutrient levels and a higher omega-6 level and lower omega-3 level. On the other hand, the cage-free organic eggs from healthier chickens allowed to eat more natural feed and roam freely will have much higher vitamin and mineral levels and a more balanced healthier omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acid ratio.

I recently compared eggs I bought at the grocery store with a batch of eggs I got at a farm stand where the chickens were free roaming and healthy.

Most people don't realize that there's a major difference because they've never bought real eggs from healthy chickens... The eggs from the grocery store had pale yellow yolks and thin weak shells. On the other hand, the healthier free range eggs from the local farm had strong thick shells and deep orange colored yolks indicating much higher nutrition levels and carotenoids... and just a healthier egg in general.

This is due to the fact that a free-roaming hen allowed to roam on plenty of land will eat a variety of greens, insects, worms, etc transferring MUCH higher levels of nutrients to the eggs compared to an unhealthy hen that is trapped inside a dark factory farm hen house in horrible conditions and fed nothing but piles of corn and soy. It's a DRASTIC difference in the nutrition that you get from the egg.

Let's get something straight right off the bat: the nutrient profile of an egg is the DIRECT RESULT OF WHAT THE HEN HAS BEEN FED, no matter how she is housed or how much exercise she gets. I'm not here to support or condone modern farming practices or free-range, merely to talk about eggs and how their nutrient profile has nothing to do with the hen's housing situation.

Hens raised in cages are not fed heaps of corn, as this quote suggests. They are fed what is called a "complete feed"- it is an extruded pellet feed that is nutritionally complete for the hen (which corn would not be), ensuring that her nutritional needs are met to ensure both growth and production. In fact, BOTH caged hens and free-raging are fed this type of grain. Hens that are free-ranging DO NOT rely on their environment to provide them with adequate nutrition. Free-range hens do NOT have better nutrition than caged hens. Hens do not produce maximally if they are not fed maximally. Period.

The reason an egg has Omega-3 and -6 fatty acids in it is because they have been fed to the hen. They come from fish oils added to the complete feeds given to the hens. Whether the hen is caged or not, she will acquire these fats from her grain, NOT from plant matter that they might find by browsing in a cage-free setting.

The reason there is variation in the colour of the yolk is because of what the hen has been fed. Different ingredients in the hen's feed will cause this (IE., two different feeds may have the same nutrient profiles, but from different sources. Different sources of ingredients in the feed result in different colour). Darker does not equal better quality or "healthier". Lighter does not equal poorer quality. In fact, different parts of the world have different preferences for colour (purely aesthetic) and the producers in those countries feed to ensure that they will get that colour. For example, France tends to prefer dark orange, almost red yolks. Doesn't mean they are any healthier.

Shell quality. A hen must put 2g of calcium into every egg shell she produces. 1g comes from the diet, 1g comes from her own bones. You cannot load her up with calcium and get her to put 2g into the shell from her nutrition. It just doesn't work. So, there are a variety of reasons why the egg shell may come out soft, primary because is not meeting the calcium requirement. Most commonly, this is because her bodily calcium stores have been depleted for many reasons. Alternatively, she has ovulated before her egg has sat in her repro tract long enough to harden, which us usually a genetic problem. This has nothing to do with her housing situation.

It is a horrible, unfounded assumption to make that hens raised in a cage-free setting are healthier than hens raise in cages. It is also a completely untrue assumption that eggs from free-range hens are healthier than eggs from cage-raised hens. Just completely false.

[cafolini]

Hey Cafolini, I'm not sure where you got the information in your post, but some of it is WRONG, and I feel the need to correct it. I, too, hate the propagation of misinformation, and there is a whole heck of a lot of it going around right now. So it's nothing personal, but your post is heavily biased and completely untrue in places, and given my background in nutrition and farm animal science, I feel the need to balance it out a little.



Let's get something straight right off the bat: the nutrient profile of an egg is the DIRECT RESULT OF WHAT THE HEN HAS BEEN FED, no matter how she is housed or how much exercise she gets. I'm not here to support or condone modern farming practices or free-range, merely to talk about eggs and how their nutrient profile has nothing to do with the hen's housing situation.

Hens raised in cages are not fed heaps of corn, as this quote suggests. They are fed what is called a "complete feed"- it is an extruded pellet feed that is nutritionally complete for the hen (which corn would not be), ensuring that her nutritional needs are met to ensure both growth and production. In fact, BOTH caged hens and free-raging are fed this type of grain. Hens that are free-ranging DO NOT rely on their environment to provide them with adequate nutrition. Free-range hens do NOT have better nutrition than caged hens. Hens do not produce maximally if they are not fed maximally. Period.

The reason an egg has Omega-3 and -6 fatty acids in it is because they have been fed to the hen. They come from fish oils added to the complete feeds given to the hens. Whether the hen is caged or not, she will acquire these fats from her grain, NOT from plant matter that they might find by browsing in a cage-free setting.

The reason there is variation in the colour of the yolk is because of what the hen has been fed. Different ingredients in the hen's feed will cause this (IE., two different feeds may have the same nutrient profiles, but from different sources. Different sources of ingredients in the feed result in different colour). Darker does not equal better quality or "healthier". Lighter does not equal poorer quality. In fact, different parts of the world have different preferences for colour (purely aesthetic) and the producers in those countries feed to ensure that they will get that colour. For example, France tends to prefer dark orange, almost red yolks. Doesn't mean they are any healthier.

Shell quality. A hen must put 2g of calcium into every egg shell she produces. 1g comes from the diet, 1g comes from her own bones. You cannot load her up with calcium and get her to put 2g into the shell from her nutrition. It just doesn't work. So, there are a variety of reasons why the egg shell may come out soft, primary because is not meeting the calcium requirement. Most commonly, this is because her bodily calcium stores have been depleted for many reasons. Alternatively, she has ovulated before her egg has sat in her repro tract long enough to harden, which us usually a genetic problem. This has nothing to do with her housing situation.

It is a horrible, unfounded assumption to make that hens raised in a cage-free setting are healthier than hens raise in cages. It is also a completely untrue assumption that eggs from free-range hens are healthier than eggs from cage-raised hens. Just completely false.

You don't know what you are talking about. The color of the yokes tell the story. You cannot make chickens in cages assimilate the feed properly. You simply can't no matter what you feed them. The things you said clearly show that you haven't read half of what's being said.

[Darcy88]

@ Cafolini - choline is where it is at. A very under-rated nutrient in my opinion. I sometimes take it supplementally.

Green tea is an excellent appetite-suppressent. As is yerba mate.

[*Classic*Charm*]

You don't know what you are talking about. The color of the yokes tell the story. You cannot make chickens in cages assimilate the feed properly. You simply can't no matter what you feed them. The things you said clearly show that you haven't read half of what's being said.

That is completely false. Site your source, please. And if it isn't a peer-reviewed article from a scientific journal, it isn't worth citing.

Also, the word is "YOLK", not "YOKE". I certainly hope you are not eating yokes. That would be unpleasant.


ETA:

From the Journal of Poultry Science (Roberts, J.R. "Factors Affecting Egg Internal Quality and Egg Shell Quality in Laying Hens". (2004) Journal of Poultry Science, 41: 161-177):

"Yolk colour preference varies considerably
depending on the part of the world and pigments of either natural or synthetic origin
may be added to achieve a desired yolk colour. In Australia, the preferred yolk colour
is about ++ on the Roche scale. However, other countries prefer darker or lighter yolk
colour. Some countries such as Sweden do not allow the use of synthetic pigments. "


"Some of the problems with egg shell quality reported from free range systems (Fraser and Bain, +33.) may result
from an inability to ensure a balanced diet for the hens."

Soo...the opposite of what you said. Not a bad little review article if you're interested. The pdf is available for free as well: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jpsa/41/3/41_3_161/_pdf

[cafolini]

duplicate

[cafolini]

Biological Immune Superefficiency

I don't know if what I'm going to talk about has been catalogued. The idea dawned one day thinking about a girl I met who's now dying from cancer.

About 20 years ago I met this girl who was disabled at an early age. The housing authority gave her a small studio apartment with a good size living room, a large closet, a bathroom and a small 8x8 ft kitchen. She lived most of the day in the kitchen and smoked anywhere from 3 to 3 1/2 packs of cigarttes per day. I often talked to her through her window, very slightly opened, because it was impossible to get in that kitchen without choking to death. I told her so, but she said she was very strong and couldn't get hurt by it. She didn't have any sign of being such a smoker; no cough, no phlegm, none of the usual effects. People observing this situation would say she might not have inhaled any smoke. But even if she didn't tried, living in that kitchen it was impossible not to breathe it in.
A few years ago she was diagnosed with cancer. It was thinking about this that the idea of Immune Superefficiency dawned on me. I didn't know what else to call it, since the carcinogenic compounds were there and taking effect.

[Gladys]

And now the common objection I get all the time when I say that the yolks are the most nutritious part of the egg...

"But I heard that whole eggs will skyrocket my cholesterol through the roof"

No, this is FALSE!

First of all, when you eat a food that contains a high amount of dietary cholesterol such as eggs, your body down-regulates it's internal production of cholesterol to balance things out.

On the other hand, if you don't eat enough cholesterol, your body simply produces more since cholesterol has dozens of important vital functions in the body.

And here's where it gets even more interesting...

There have been plenty of studies lately that indicate that eating whole eggs actually raises your good HDL cholesterol to a higher degree than LDL cholesterol, thereby improving your overall cholesterol ratio and blood chemistry.

As one who had consumed an egg yoke a day but has now reduced to three per week, I'm not convinced that egg yokes in quantity are fine. Recent studies suggest that eggs will raise cholesterol, and that not all HDL is "good" cholesterol.

I am certain that the dairy industry has long funded research that paints eggs in the best possible light, and all of it is flooding the internet.

[LitNetIsGreat]

As one who had consumed an egg yoke a day but has now reduced to three per week, I'm not convinced that egg yokes in quantity are fine. Recent studies suggest that eggs will raise cholesterol, and that not all HDL is "good" cholesterol.

I am certain that the dairy industry has long funded research that paints eggs in the best possible light, and all of it is flooding the internet.

Do you seriously think more than three eggs a week is bad for you? OK, I can see that there is conflicting information with just about every single food on earth, and that studies and science continually fail us in such matters, but surely common sense can also prevail? Eggs are one of the most natural and nutritious foods you can come by, foods that we have been eating for millions of years so common sense suggests that an egg a day can hardly be 'bad' for you, quite the opposite. I used to eat about 30+ eggs a week a few months back, but now I eat less, maybe 10 a week, this is not because of any nonsensical fears about good vs bad cholesterol, HDLs or any of that, just a question of eating habits. I just stick to eating natural foods for the majority of my diet, listening to my body e.g. eat when hungry, balance things up a bit and job done. As a result I've never been healthier.

[Gladys]

Do you seriously think more than three eggs a week is bad for you? OK, I can see that there is conflicting information with just about every single food on earth, and that studies and science continually fail us in such matters, but surely common sense can also prevail? Eggs are one of the most natural and nutritious foods you can come by, foods that we have been eating for millions of years so common sense suggests that an egg a day can hardly be 'bad' for you, quite the opposite.

I eat three eggs a week because I think they are good for me. The question is whether seven or fourteen are? I am fairly certain that high egg intake is relatively low risk where you have no heart disease and your overall diet is low in saturated fats. Certainly our ancestors ate eggs, but they couldn't visit the supermarket week in and week out for a couple of dozen.

I place greater weight on studies that suggest too much high cholesterol food presents a heart disease risk, because I can be sure there are no dairy corporations zealously funding them.

I always eat low salt, sugar and saturated fat, and haven't had the least weight problem in decades.

[Aylinn]

I eat three eggs a week because I think they are good for me. The question is whether seven or fourteen are? I am fairly certain that high egg intake is relatively low risk where you have no heart disease and your overall diet is low in saturated fats. Certainly our ancestors ate eggs, but they couldn't visit the supermarket week in and week out for a couple of dozen.
We should also take into consideration that although our ancestors may have eaten more high cholesterol food, they were also generally more physically active (No cars to take them where they wanted or all the modern facilities that make our life more sedentary), so they could easily reduce the excessive amount of cholesterol.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yes but over on the primal forums they can't get enough of saturated fats and cholesterol!! Some of them put butter in their coffee!! Over there it's carbs that are the big no no, not carbs from fruit and veg, carbs from breads, pastas etc. I'm not active in those forums any more because I've got all the info I need and put that together with common sense and my own lifestyle and it works for me. Low salt and sugar is also a good thing. Here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz2UVC7Qvnw

[cafolini]

As one who had consumed an egg yoke a day but has now reduced to three per week, I'm not convinced that egg yokes in quantity are fine. Recent studies suggest that eggs will raise cholesterol, and that not all HDL is "good" cholesterol.

I am certain that the dairy industry has long funded research that paints eggs in the best possible light, and all of it is flooding the internet.

What's flooding the Internet are the goons from the FDA trying hard to justify prescription drugs and unnecessary surgeries that sustain false diagnoses. I'll soon talk about some differentiations that will show specific examples.

[*Classic*Charm*]

Yes but over on the primal forums they can't get enough of saturated fats and cholesterol!! Some of them put butter in their coffee!! Over there it's carbs that are the big no no, not carbs from fruit and veg, carbs from breads, pastas etc. I'm not active in those forums any more because I've got all the info I need and put that together with common sense and my own lifestyle and it works for me. Low salt and sugar is also a good thing. Here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz2UVC7Qvnw

I think that the point Gladys is trying to make is that the type of diet you are describing has no foundation in the scientific literature. What you call "common sense", I call a fad diet. All of the extreme diets come and go in popularity- high carb diets, high protein, the Atkins which was high fat, high fiber. They are all extreme diets that people claimed simply made sense.

Unfortunately, when it comes to diet, health, and medicine, "common sense" means nothing.

It is hugely popular right now to talk about everything being "natural", especially food. Natural, whatever definition you decide to give that term, does not necessarily mean best for you. The entire point of food science research is to find out how best to deliver nutrients to our bodies in a way that satisfies our physiological and behavioural needs. It is the reason we know the difference between the different types of cholesterol (HDL and LDL primarily), what their functions are in the body, and how much of them we need to consume to maximize their effects without causing detriment. Eggs have been a huge part of that investigation. There are recommendations for the max number of eggs one should consume in a week because they have the potential to cause negative effects on your health. Ignoring that is ignorance, not common sense.

The idea that we should eat the way we presume our ancestors ate is absurd- we do not live the same lifestyle, nor do we live in the same type of environment. We also have many more foodstuffs available to us that are better sources of nutrition. You made the claim that "low salt and sugar is a good thing". That is not from your "common sense", that is the result of scientific study. If it were common sense, people would not have soaked their meat in salt in order to preserve it.

[TheFifthElement]

Except that there are no limits on the number of eggs that can be eaten. That's 'old' science. From The British Heart Foundation website:

I've heard that eating too many eggs can raise your cholesterol - how many can I eat?
For most people there is currently no limit on the number of eggs that you can eat in a week. However, because the recommendation has changed over the years, it's often a common source of confusion.

In the past a restriction on eggs was recommended because we thought that foods high in cholesterol (including liver, kidneys and shellfish, as well as eggs) could have an impact on cholesterol levels in the body.

However, as research in this area has developed, so has our understanding of how foods that contain cholesterol affect people’s heart health.

For most people, the amount of saturated fat they eat has much more of an impact on their cholesterol than eating foods that contain cholesterol, like eggs and shellfish. So unless you have been advised otherwise by your doctor or dietician, if you like eggs, they can be included as part of a balanced and varied diet.

http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/conditions/high-cholesterol.aspx

I don't disagree that there are lots of fad diets out there and people should be guarded against them, but there is also a lot of old science which has now been debunked which people still follow because despite the more current information they still feel that the old message is 'common sense'. Ignoring the current information could also be seen as 'ignorance' but I think that food science is still so difficult to unravel what else are people supposed to do than follow an approach which makes sense to them?

[cafolini]

I think that the point Gladys is trying to make is that the type of diet you are describing has no foundation in the scientific literature. What you call "common sense", I call a fad diet. All of the extreme diets come and go in popularity- high carb diets, high protein, the Atkins which was high fat, high fiber. They are all extreme diets that people claimed simply made sense.

Unfortunately, when it comes to diet, health, and medicine, "common sense" means nothing.

It is hugely popular right now to talk about everything being "natural", especially food. Natural, whatever definition you decide to give that term, does not necessarily mean best for you. The entire point of food science research is to find out how best to deliver nutrients to our bodies in a way that satisfies our physiological and behavioural needs. It is the reason we know the difference between the different types of cholesterol (HDL and LDL primarily), what their functions are in the body, and how much of them we need to consume to maximize their effects without causing detriment. Eggs have been a huge part of that investigation. There are recommendations for the max number of eggs one should consume in a week because they have the potential to cause negative effects on your health. Ignoring that is ignorance, not common sense.

The idea that we should eat the way we presume our ancestors ate is absurd- we do not live the same lifestyle, nor do we live in the same type of environment. We also have many more foodstuffs available to us that are better sources of nutrition. You made the claim that "low salt and sugar is a good thing". That is not from your "common sense", that is the result of scientific study. If it were common sense, people would not have soaked their meat in salt in order to preserve it.

Again, you are not listening to what's being said. You are ignoring precisely that science that does no fit your scheme. Case closed.

[*Classic*Charm*]

You are ignoring precisely that science that does no fit your scheme. Case closed.

Are you actually saying that science does not corroborate my argument? Or that yours is outside the realm of scientific study?

If I don't get it, perhaps you ought to state your argument more succinctly.

[*Classic*Charm*]

Except that there are no limits on the number of eggs that can be eaten. That's 'old' science. From The British Heart Foundation website:


http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/conditions/high-cholesterol.aspx

I don't disagree that there are lots of fad diets out there and people should be guarded against them, but there is also a lot of old science which has now been debunked which people still follow because despite the more current information they still feel that the old message is 'common sense'. Ignoring the current information could also be seen as 'ignorance' but I think that food science is still so difficult to unravel what else are people supposed to do than follow an approach which makes sense to them?

The recommendation varies depending on where you are from and the typical type of diet consumed in that region. In most places now, you are correct. The "old science" did not account for confounding factors of which we now know more. Your article states that "In the past a restriction on eggs was recommended because we thought that foods high in cholesterol (including liver, kidneys and shellfish, as well as eggs) could have an impact on cholesterol levels in the body. However, as research in this area has developed, so has our understanding of how foods that contain cholesterol affect people’s heart health." I suspect that this refers to the fairly recent understanding that dietary cholesterol contributes only slightly to plasma concentrations of LDL (our "bad cholesterol" measurement). What is newly developing (2010- present ongoing research) is our understanding of how dietary cholesterol stimulates other potentially harmful metabolic reactions in the body.

It's an ongoing story, and as I said, the recommendations vary by country due to cultural dietary variations as well as the prevalence of cardiovascular disease.

[Calidore]

Unfortunately, when it comes to diet, health, and medicine, "common sense" means nothing.

It is hugely popular right now to talk about everything being "natural", especially food. Natural, whatever definition you decide to give that term, does not necessarily mean best for you. The entire point of food science research is to find out how best to deliver nutrients to our bodies in a way that satisfies our physiological and behavioural needs. It is the reason we know the difference between the different types of cholesterol (HDL and LDL primarily), what their functions are in the body, and how much of them we need to consume to maximize their effects without causing detriment. Eggs have been a huge part of that investigation. There are recommendations for the max number of eggs one should consume in a week because they have the potential to cause negative effects on your health. Ignoring that is ignorance, not common sense.

The idea that we should eat the way we presume our ancestors ate is absurd- we do not live the same lifestyle, nor do we live in the same type of environment. We also have many more foodstuffs available to us that are better sources of nutrition. You made the claim that "low salt and sugar is a good thing". That is not from your "common sense", that is the result of scientific study. If it were common sense, people would not have soaked their meat in salt in order to preserve it.

Common sense can also vary according to the times and available knowledge. Salt-curing meat, for example, was common sense at the time: spoiled meat = bad, salt preserved it, therefore salting it = good. Now that's changed because we know about the detrimental health effects of too much salt.

[Darcy88]

Its funny. I was in the best shape of my life when I worked in a chinese/burger joint and ate a massive plate of sweet and sour pork and chow mein or a double decker burger with a hot-dog on it 5 days a week every week.

[*Classic*Charm*]

Common sense can also vary according to the times and available knowledge. Salt-curing meat, for example, was common sense at the time: spoiled meat = bad, salt preserved it, therefore salting it = good. Now that's changed because we know about the detrimental health effects of too much salt.

I'll give you that one haha, the example was weak.

My point is that common sense is subjective. To me, common sense is to question extreme claims and respect the work of experts in their fields. It is not common sense to interpret my individual personal experience as an ultimate truth (that is, "I eat this way, and I am healthy, therefore this must be the right way for everyone to eat").

In my opinion and view, due to my background and education, claims made about food or diet have no significance unless they have been tried, tested, peer-reviewed, published, and analyzed critically. To me, that is how knowledge of a subject and truth about it can be acquired. I think it absurd to believe in a claim simply because it sounds right, even intuitively, or because it is popular. I think it irresponsible and potentially dangerous to influence others with those claims.

If that isn't how other people seek or recognize knowledge, so be it :)

[LitNetIsGreat]

I think that the point Gladys is trying to make is that the type of diet you are describing has no foundation in the scientific literature. What you call "common sense", I call a fad diet. All of the extreme diets come and go in popularity- high carb diets, high protein, the Atkins which was high fat, high fiber. They are all extreme diets that people claimed simply made sense.

Unfortunately, when it comes to diet, health, and medicine, "common sense" means nothing.

It is hugely popular right now to talk about everything being "natural", especially food. Natural, whatever definition you decide to give that term, does not necessarily mean best for you. The entire point of food science research is to find out how best to deliver nutrients to our bodies in a way that satisfies our physiological and behavioural needs. It is the reason we know the difference between the different types of cholesterol (HDL and LDL primarily), what their functions are in the body, and how much of them we need to consume to maximize their effects without causing detriment. Eggs have been a huge part of that investigation. There are recommendations for the max number of eggs one should consume in a week because they have the potential to cause negative effects on your health. Ignoring that is ignorance, not common sense.

The idea that we should eat the way we presume our ancestors ate is absurd- we do not live the same lifestyle, nor do we live in the same type of environment. We also have many more foodstuffs available to us that are better sources of nutrition. You made the claim that "low salt and sugar is a good thing". That is not from your "common sense", that is the result of scientific study. If it were common sense, people would not have soaked their meat in salt in order to preserve it.

The diet I am suggesting has basis in human evolution, i.e. meats, fish, fresh fruit and vegetables, nuts, eggs, preferably organic/free range where available. If you feel the need to read peer reviewed scientific literature to test whether that is healthy or not then fine, I do not. If such a diet - a diet that the human body has evolved with - doesn't have any foundation in modern science then in my opinion it is the fault of modern science. Personally I'd rather make such things the core of my diet where possible. I would rather try to eat natural foods that our bodies are adapted to from millions of years of evolution, as opposed to Frankenstein foods produced in a laboratory in the last 20 years. This is the common sense I speak about.

In terms of eggs, I have seen studies where people have consumed 40+ eggs a week with no rise in cholesterol levels, and anyway, cholesterol itself has recently been called into question of whether it is even harmful at all!! Same old conflicting data. No, I'll take my chances with eating natural foods, real foods, thanks and not continually change the things I eat because of the latest fad health scare - butter's bad eat margarine, no margarine causes cancer whoops eat butter...

I've spent about a year reading into paleo/primal lifestyle, 'fad diet', as in meat, nasty fish, killer vegetables, harmful fruit, fattening nuts, HDL eggs etc. You can read about it here if you want because I can't be bothered to go over old ground again and again whenever this comes up it gets really really tedious:


http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?70801-The-Paleolithic-Diet&highlight=paleo

The result of my reading/ignorance, is that I am 100% convinced about it.

Oh and the levels of sugar and salt in the modern diet is way, way above what you would find in a typical primal diet, so that's nothing to do with recent studies either, again common sense, something quite rare these days it seems.

[Darcy88]

I tend to not buy or eat anything that comes out of package.

[Calidore]

In my opinion and view, due to my background and education, claims made about food or diet have no significance unless they have been tried, tested, peer-reviewed, published, and analyzed critically. To me, that is how knowledge of a subject and truth about it can be acquired. I think it absurd to believe in a claim simply because it sounds right, even intuitively, or because it is popular. I think it irresponsible and potentially dangerous to influence others with those claims.


Agree completely. Keep the science in science.

I can also recommend checking out the thread Neely linked to. Among other discussions, he and I had a very enjoyable point/counterpoint on the paleo diet in there.

[Gladys]

In my opinion and view, due to my background and education, claims made about food or diet have no significance unless they have been tried, tested, peer-reviewed, published, and analyzed critically. To me, that is how knowledge of a subject and truth about it can be acquired.

I see things much as you do.

I would add that science, in medicine and nutrition particularly, is rather frail. For instance, despite countless studies on heart disease and high cholesterol, the impact on cholesterol, in its various physical and chemical configurations, is far from clear even now. Not all HDL is good it seems; other cholesterol is worst of all; and cholesterol particle size is important. The full story may be millennia away.

[hypatia_]

I see things much as you do.

I would add that science, in medicine and nutrition particularly, is rather frail. For instance, despite countless studies on heart disease and high cholesterol, the impact on cholesterol, in its various physical and chemical configurations, is far from clear even now. Not all HDL is good it seems; other cholesterol is worst of all; and cholesterol particle size is important. The full story may be millennia away.

i think the problem is that everyone touts that they are right, creating the illusion that we have it all figured out. at the same time that the United States has record incidences of high cholesterol/blood pressure, heart attacks, diabetes, and cancer. i think it really comes down to not eating processed foods, drinking lots of unfluoridated water, and getting exercise (this country is nuts in terms of people sitting around all day at work then going home and watching tv).

[Darcy88]

i think the problem is that everyone touts that they are right, creating the illusion that we have it all figured out. at the same time that the United States has record incidences of high cholesterol/blood pressure, heart attacks, diabetes, and cancer. i think it really comes down to not eating processed foods, drinking lots of unfluoridated water, and getting exercise (this country is nuts in terms of people sitting around all day at work then going home and watching tv).

Water fluoridation has nothing to do with it. For most of my life I've been in marvellous physical shape and I've always daily consumed great quantities of tap-water.

Your other points are spot on though. They key is to cut out the processed foods and make sure you simple move.

[hypatia_]

i guess fluoridation has more to do with your mental state than physical. not saying there is anything wrong with you, but fluoridation simply has no dental benefit, whereas its affects on the pineal gland are quite profound.

there's a reason why Finland, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Switzerland have all discontinued fluoridation of public water.

[cafolini]

To change the subject because fluoridation is for more than just protecting teeth unless you have better technology available that many poor countries don't have.


There is a way for the elder to deal with insonia due to perhaps anguish or anxiety. The drug used is dangerous beyond 5mg,but at that dosis is safe. Imsomnia can be corrected by taking a pill every 5 to 10 days. I'm talking about Ambien. The generic name is Zolpidem Tartrate. Beyond 5mg it could be addictive and have bad side effectcs. If you are suffering from extreme lack of sleep, ask your doctor for a safe prescription. Often, the problem is corrected and you might not have to keep taking it. If you buy it without prescrition (not recommended), remember 5 mg, no more.

[Calidore]

i guess fluoridation has more to do with your mental state than physical. not saying there is anything wrong with you, but fluoridation simply has no dental benefit, whereas its affects on the pineal gland are quite profound.

there's a reason why Finland, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Switzerland have all discontinued fluoridation of public water.

That reason is mostly politics. The dental benefits of water fluoridation have been very well documented over decades--it hardens the tooth enamel, thus hindering decay--and for that matter, several countries without water fluoridation, like Germany, fluoridate salt instead for the same reason. Never heard the pineal thing before; a Google search turned up lots of new-agey/conspiracy quackery (as in, fluoride in the pineal has the effect of making us more docile, and is introduced by the government into our water just for that purpose), but no reputable science that I could see on an admittedly quick skim.

[Calidore]

Article in the Trib today about some nutrition myths:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/sns-201305301200--tms--foodstylts--v-f20130530-20130530,0,1842434.story

[cafolini]

Very good article. Take heed. One more thing: Mix Amaranth flour, 10 grain flour, pecan flour, and corn tortilla flour in equal proportions. They don't need to be refrigerated. When you get ready to bake, mix some apple powder cider and some powdered butter. Add enough water to make dough and some baking powder. You can make some healthy dumplings, tamales, gorditas, scones, etc. If you are making scones, you can use some berries and sweeten it with concentrated niagara or concord grape juice. This is a very healthy deal. No myth.
Soy is not very good unless it has been fermented.

[cafolini]

With the mix described above, you can make some great pecan pie. Don't use the apple cider. Still sweeten with grape juice and use carob powder as a chocolate substitute if you wish.
If you wish to eat actual chocolate, use very dark. Don't exaggerate. That's all.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Article in the Trib today about some nutrition myths:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/sns-201305301200--tms--foodstylts--v-f20130530-20130530,0,1842434.story

The problem with nutrition myths is that they change with the weather. You can easily find any number of articles that would argue the opposite. And you can play article tennis all day long and it won't prove anything either way. As Gladys said about one particular thing, cholesterol, the full story is probably a millennia away, well, we haven't got that long! This is way in the absence of any reliable info I stick to a common sense approach in my diet and have done.

[cafolini]

That's not good enough, Neely. You should specify the articles that argue the opposite. You'll have a hard time finding them, except that the goons at the FDA would argue the opposite and they no longer count.

[Darcy88]

Whole grains, fruits and veggies, quality source of protein. Anything beyond that amounts to needless over-complification.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Whole grains, fruits and veggies, quality source of protein. Anything beyond that amounts to needless over-complification.

I agree only there's a question mark over grains, so I limit my intake of them.

Ha, Cafolini I'm not playing tennis.

[cafolini]

One suffers from malnutrition to get to 150 to become a model. LOL His over-complication amounts to over-simplification.

The other doesn't play tennis. It's a good sport, Neely. You don't have to stop tennis to ignore the issues. ROFLMAO

[Darcy88]

One suffers from malnutrition to get to 150 to become a model. LOL His over-complication amounts to over-simplification.

The other doesn't play tennis. It's a good sport, Neely. You don't have to stop tennis to ignore the issues. ROFLMAO

I wouldn't say I am malnourished. I started drinking green smoothies made of fruits and vegetables.

[LitNetIsGreat]

One suffers from malnutrition to get to 150 to become a model. LOL His over-complication amounts to over-simplification.

The other doesn't play tennis. It's a good sport, Neely. You don't have to stop tennis to ignore the issues. ROFLMAO

Oh I like real tennis, in fact I intend to play tomorrow morning with a very slight hangover via some Cumberland Ale tonight, but this monkey is done with playing article tennis about food. Not much fun there!

[hypatia_]

I wouldn't say I am malnourished. I started drinking green smoothies made of fruits and vegetables.

what kind of fruits/vegs do you mix for your smoothies?

[Darcy88]

what kind of fruits/vegs do you mix for your smoothies?

Avocado, kale, lettuce, spinach, oranges, bananas, kiwis, apples.

[cafolini]

Hospital ripoffs of medicare, but not to be associated with the nature of medicare or medicaid or medical. This is abuse on the part of hospitals.
I will cite just one case, although there are many similar ones. This one is about diverticulosis/diverticulitis and usually has to do with the health of the elderly.

What is diverticulosis?

Diverticulosis is a condition that develops when pouches (diverticula ) form in the wall of the colon (large intestine ). These pouches are usually very small (5 to 10 millimeters) in diameter but can be larger.

In diverticulosis, the pouches in the colon wall do not cause symptoms. Diverticulosis may not be discovered unless symptoms occur, such as in painful diverticular disease or in diverticulitis. As many as 80 out of 100 people who have diverticulosis never get diverticulitis.1 In many cases, diverticulosis is discovered only when tests are done to find the cause of a different medical problem or during a screening exam.

What causes diverticulosis?

The reason pouches (diverticula) form in the colon wall is not completely understood. Doctors think diverticula form when high pressure inside the colon pushes against weak spots in the colon wall.

Normally, a diet with adequate fiber (also called roughage) produces stool that is bulky and can move easily through the colon. If a diet is low in fiber, the colon must exert more pressure than usual to move small, hard stool. A low-fiber diet also can increase the time stool remains in the bowel, adding to the high pressure.

Pouches may form when the high pressure pushes against weak spots in the colon where blood vessels pass through the muscle layer of the bowel wall to supply blood to the inner wall.

What are the symptoms?

Most people don't have symptoms. You may have had diverticulosis for years by the time symptoms occur (if they do). Over time, some people get an infection in the pouches (diverticulitis). For more information, see the topic Diverticulitis.
***
The care entails some antibiotic to prevent infection and a high fiber diet such as oatmeal.

I know this person who went to a hospital's ER with the symptoms and was confined to a room, given the antibiotic for five days and simply kept under observation. The cost of the bed was U$S1000/per day, which is already high. At the end of the 5 days, the person went home. The hospital billed Medicare for 30,000; six times as much as the cost of the bed. The person did not even had a dedicated nurse. Only the usual monitor used for anything else. There wasn't any intensive care.
How was this justified. It wasn't. Medicare paid it and the person received a duplicate of the bill, as usual. Exaggerate itemization was of breakfast, lunch and dinner, and dedicated nurses that never existed in actuality.

Be careful about the mongers who will come here trying to associate this ripoff with the programs.

[hypatia_]

Yeah that is my problem with Medicare as well. My friend had a hernia and he can't afford the surgery. And by that I mean, he can totally afford the surgery if it costed what the surgery would cost. But they charge double that just to sit in the bed and eat a few crappy meals.

I will never understand why such exorbitant charges are assessed. All it does is intimidate poor people from getting treatment, for fear that it will put their whole famiyl in a jam by being too expensive.

I could understand the hospital's viewpoint if they made the charges realistic, but they clearly aren't in many cases.

Maybe it's because they need to keep people out or it will be too crowded, who knows :/

[Darcy88]

I've incorporated High Intensity Interval Training into my weekly workout regimen. I sprint until I am out of breath, rest 20 seconds and then do it again. From what I've read this is the most effective exercise for losing fat. It really is intense. The endorphin rush is amazing. I love it.

[Volya]

Yeah that is my problem with Medicare as well. My friend had a hernia and he can't afford the surgery. And by that I mean, he can totally afford the surgery if it costed what the surgery would cost. But they charge double that just to sit in the bed and eat a few crappy meals.

I will never understand why such exorbitant charges are assessed. All it does is intimidate poor people from getting treatment, for fear that it will put their whole famiyl in a jam by being too expensive.

I could understand the hospital's viewpoint if they made the charges realistic, but they clearly aren't in many cases.

Maybe it's because they need to keep people out or it will be too crowded, who knows :/

This is why I'm glad we have the NHS in Britain.

[hypatia_]

This is why I'm glad we have the NHS in Britain.
Why won't something like that work in the U.S?

[Volya]

I have no idea. Don't many Americans dislike the idea of public healthcare? I vaguely remember there being some criticism raised at the new things Obama was doing with healthcare - Obamacare and all that

[cafolini]

Something you should know if you have a heart condition.
Before anything else is determined and the need for it arises, if you let them, the hospitals are injecting in your tommy and then start with Warfarin. Now, Warfaring is an anticuagulant that thins the blood and prevents blood blokages or blood clots to leave a blockage and rest in the lungs, brain, or arteries, causing fatal damage like for example trombosis. Then, the hospitals order a sound scan of your arms and legs to determine is there are blockages. This way of proceeding is upside down. If it is determine that you have no blockages, what do you need Warfarin for? There are other ways of thinning your blood without drugs. DO NOT TAKE ASPIRIN. It is now well known that aspirin can cause internal bleeding over the long run.
There are two things you can use to keep your blood thin safely. Crystalized organic ginger will do that. You just chew a few little cubes every day. Combine this with some garlic oil (it comes in capsules) every other day, and you will be in good shape. Remember to refuse to take Warfarin unless you actually have blockage/s in your arms and/or legs. If you do, then you are stuck with it. You must take it and it is justified. It is a pain in the neck because the procedure needs blood testing and variation of the dosis every week. But if needed, well, what are you going to do?

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

Managed to get a run in tonight (fitness)
Now drinking a Smithwicke's beer (diet)

[cafolini]

That's a great tasting beer.

Now, here are a couple of subjects that the elderly must grasp to use the ideas correctly.

1. We hear that heart disease is the silent killer. This of course is true. But what does it mean? Very seldom people die without symptoms. It is true that if you abuse your health, you will get the symptoms. But before you get the heart attack, something must happen indicating that you are going to get it. You could get things like a big pain on one shoulder, or you might feel that you have a giant standing on your chest. If so, do not wait one more minute. Go to emergency right away. Most likely, you are about to get a heart attack. But is nothing is happening like that, the silent killer might be getting ready but no symptoms are happening. The best is to have a good diet, so the silent killer gets killed.

2. There is a big difference between congestive heart failure (CHF) and a congested heart. A virus can cause a congested heart. Your heart could increase to 1.5-1.6 its normal size. Most of the goons at hospitals will diagnose CHF and propose to butcher you with invasive open-heart surgery. They ask you questions as to whether or not you are a drunkard or heavy smoker. Those two things are, of course, influential, but not enough to diagnose a difference. Things get worse because they do an EKG and they find palpitations and irregular waves. Of course you are going to have that with a congested heart. But is it failure what you have. Well, the goons think that if those are the result of the EKG, then you actually had a heart attack. They think you might be lying when you say you didn't. So they cover their congested fat asses and send you to butchery. If you have actual failure, the total anesthesia at the butcher's shop could kill you. Be careful with the goons no matter how many medical degrees they have.

[hypatia_]

kettlebells are awesome. and for some reason i feel more excited to exercise with them than traditional means. maybe because it's unique.

[hannah_arendt]

Why won't something like that work in the U.S?

In Poland we have NHS and it doesn`t work. If you have more serious problems you have to pay and go to private clinic.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

Finished a run (fitness)
Two Newcastle Brown Ales (diet)

[Volya]

My healthy act for yesterday was being offered four donuts and only eating two... It took a lot of willpower...

[qimissung]

I joined a health club. It has proved more expensive than I would have preferred, but that's my fault. I'm very good at saying no, usually, but this, apparently is my achilles heel. The results of their tests are that I'm not aerobically fit and I'm ten pounds overweight, both of which I could have told them without the tests. Anyway, I have discovered, among other things, that:

I have acid reflux
I can have 40 grams of fat, 90 of protein, and 110 of carbs per day
that I am eating too many grams of fat, too few of protein, and I'm still not drinking enough water

And something that I already knew, that I am in terrible shape, aerobically and strength-wise. I'll be going there three times a week and walking on the treadmill. I have a watch that's also a heart monitor and we will be focusing on zone's 1 and 2, with foray's into zone three, and each day will focus on either cardio, resistance or core. I've gone twice and today I was exhausted, but hopefully that will change soon.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Finished a run (fitness)
Two Newcastle Brown Ales (diet)

Ha, ha, you can get Newcastle Brown Ales over there? I've not had a Newcy Brown for ages.

Qimissung, yes your fitness will quickly improve, quite dramatically. I was really off the rails this year because I have swapped the push bike for the motor. So when I did jump on the bike again I was hopeless. However, my fitness has gone up very quickly again with playing tennis. Personally with the carb/fat intake I do it the other way around, low carbs higher fat and protein.

[Calidore]

I joined a health club. It has proved more expensive than I would have preferred, but that's my fault. I'm very good at saying no, usually, but this, apparently is my achilles heel. The results of their tests are that I'm not aerobically fit and I'm ten pounds overweight, both of which I could have told them without the tests. Anyway, I have discovered, among other things, that:

I have acid reflux
I can have 40 grams of fat, 90 of protein, and 110 of carbs per day
that I am eating too many grams of fat, too few of protein, and I'm still not drinking enough water

And something that I already knew, that I am in terrible shape, aerobically and strength-wise. I'll be going there three times a week and walking on the treadmill. I have a watch that's also a heart monitor and we will be focusing on zone's 1 and 2, with foray's into zone three, and each day will focus on either cardio, resistance or core. I've gone twice and today I was exhausted, but hopefully that will change soon.

Just make sure you give yourself enough recovery time, especially when you're just starting. If after only two days your body still says, "No, not yet," listen to it.

[qimissung]

I will try, Calidore. I have an unfortunate tendency toward stubborness, but experience has taught me that going slow and listening to my inner voice is important-I hear it, I just don't always heed it.

[qimissung]

Ha, ha, you can get Newcastle Brown Ales over there? I've not had a Newcy Brown for ages.

Qimissung, yes your fitness will quickly improve, quite dramatically. I was really off the rails this year because I have swapped the push bike for the motor. So when I did jump on the bike again I was hopeless. However, my fitness has gone up very quickly again with playing tennis. Personally with the carb/fat intake I do it the other way around, low carbs higher fat and protein.

That's really, really good to hear, Neely! I hope it proves true, in my case, hehe. I did a little reading on low fat vs. low carb. You lose weight quicker with low carb, but you can eat more with low fat. So I know which one I'm sticking with.

Onward and upward!

[Darcy88]

I've dropped just over 20 pounds but I'm still not where I want to be. I cut out beer, mayo and cheese and stopped eating before bedtime. I'm gonna go vegetarian, with an exception for any venison that comes my way, though that is more for philosophical as opposed to health reasons.

[JuniperWoolf]

Newcastle Brown Ale was a favorite at the legion where I used to bartend. Lots of old English blokes.

I sparred a few days ago. It was fun, but then he got me in a body triangle and squeezed until I couldn't breathe and I lost. Next time.


that I am eating too many grams of fat, too few of protein, and I'm still not drinking enough water.

That's alright, water and sources of protein are delicious. I'm a big fan of bison and salmon. Added bonus: there's not a lot of fat in them apparently.

[qimissung]

Thanks, Jun. I knew chicken breast and salmon had a lot of protein since I looked it up recently. Didn't know about the buffalo, which has the added factor of sounding yummy.

[Darcy88]

After venison bison is easily my favourite meat. Occasionally I get a piece of beef that is on par with bison in terms of taste, but the average bison meat is hands down superior in my opinion to the average piece of beef. Also the fats in salmon are super nutritious, not to mention the high quality protein. Avocado and salmon sandwiches are one of my everyday go to meals.

[*Classic*Charm*]

Bison is delicious, though it doesn't even come close to the amazing flavour of boar meat. Not a particularly healthy meat though...

[Calidore]

Not sure I've ever had buffalo, but I tried yak once at a (sadly short-lived) Tibetan restaurant here. It was described as being much lower-fat than beef. I got spicy stir-fried yak in garlic sauce, and it was delicious.

[qimissung]

After venison bison is easily my favourite meat. Occasionally I get a piece of beef that is on par with bison in terms of taste, but the average bison meat is hands down superior in my opinion to the average piece of beef. Also the fats in salmon are super nutritious, not to mention the high quality protein. Avocado and salmon sandwiches are one of my everyday go to meals.

The avocado and salmon sandwich sounds really delicious, Darcy. One of my favorite breakfasts is toast with a little lite mayo and a half avocado smashed on top with a little salt and pepper. Eat alone or with scrambled eggs. Truly scrumptious. So you've just given me a wonderful addition to my (admittedly small) food repertoire. Thank you!

[Snowqueen]

I wish you luck in your plan Qimi. I admit I never cared about my diet. I always lose some weight in summer not deliberately of course. It mostly results from loss of appetite. I usually skip my breakfast. And it really annoys my father.

I’m quite regular in my exercise. I take evening walks and sometimes play badminton. I feel I’m in good shape, but a couple of my friends say I’m rather skinny. I don’t blame them because they seem to be some kind of heavy weight champions.

[tailor STATELY]

Started walking again at the HS's track.

I hyper-extended my knee 18 mo.s ago carrying a load of wood downhill; found a wet clay spot and... ausgerutscht ! heels over head.

Sat. - 1 - mile
Mon - 1 - mile
Tue - 1 - mile
Wed - 1.5 - mile(s)
Thu - plan to walk 1 - mile this evening... and Fri and Sat... Sundays off.

@ 20 minutes/mile (5 min/440) a nice steady slow pace.

Goal: A slow jog in 4-6 mo.s (weather permitting)

[qimissung]

Sounds like a good plan, Taylor. Slow and steady is the way to go.

[Calidore]

Bump for qimissung. :) I have trouble with searches also, but when I get listings that include gems like the incest poll thread, I probably shouldn't complain.

[LitNetIsGreat]

With the tennis and biking season over and a return to drinking a fair bit of lager, my fitness is at its seasonal low point. Also swapping the push bike with a motor is more convenient but doesn't help. However on the road to Christmas will have to do something.

[Volya]

I've started training for the Royal Marines: going running 3 times a week, cycling at the weekends, and lots and lots of calisthenics :D Still not usually getting my 5 a day though :eek:

[qimissung]

Thank you very kindly, Calidore. I have made no progress whatsoever. I joined a gym and was beginning to make a smidgen of progress then got too busy to keep it up. I'm just now starting to walk again. Also I've noticed that I'm fine during the day but at night I seemingly must have a sweet treat. Which isn't helping anything of course. I signed up for My Fitness Pal. This is what I had yesterday: popcorn, no butter, at the movies, four squares of Ghirardelli dark chocolate, and a black and blue burger from Applebee's. A message popped up and said if i ate that way everyday I would gain a pound by January. Impudent get.

[Calidore]

This is what I had yesterday: popcorn, no butter, at the movies, four squared of Ghirardelli dark chocolate, and a black and blue burger from Applebee's. A message popped upland said it late that way everyday. I would gain a pound by January. Impudent git.

I'm afraid those last two would defeat the purpose of the first. What's a black and blue burger?

[qimissung]

It's got blue cheese and black Angus beef. I guess it was about a thousand calories, so even though I went for a good long walk I ended up consuming more calories than I so should have. :p

[Delta40]

It's got blue cheese and black Angus beef. I guess it was about a thousand calories, so even though I went for a good long walk I ended up consuming more calories than I so should have. :p

God I want one for my lunch!

[qimissung]

It's really, really good, I must say. :D

[qimissung]

Have gone for a two mile walk twice this week. Yeah! Shooting for one more today before the weather gets bad again.

[palerose]

I train about 6 times a week, a lot of strength training and cardio. A lot of squats and deadlifts. I eat a low carb, high protein and high fat (peanut butter, avocado, coconut oil, almonds) diet. Feel better than I ever have :)

I also don't get any PMS symptoms. I used to get awful cramps and migraines now I feel literally nothing.

[qimissung]

I'd like to start doing some strength training in the new year, although it remains to be seen whether or not I'll have the wherewithal to follow through. I agree with you on the "good fats." Consuming more of them has been beneficial. Mostly I notice that my hair is much softer so far. It had gotten quite dry, but now it's kind of like it used to be when I was a bit younger. (:D)

[Sancho]

All things in moderation is my policy.
Got in my first good trail run after too long a break... Then I had a big ole stack O flapjacks. Buckwheat, pecan and blueberries with Irish butter and bona fide Canadian Maple syrup. Mmm-Mmm good.

(I'm thinking the last part of this post sort of contradicts the first part. Ah well, ya gotta reward yourself after a strong effort, eh?)

[qimissung]

Did your wife make those? They sound achingly delicious.

Did manage to walk three times this week. Hurray for me.

[Darcy88]

Lately I've been practicing a martial art called savate alongside my boxing routine, which is similar to tae kwondo sort of, as well as doing a lot of lying down bodyweight movements, a bit of yoga as well as movements mimicking swimming and rowing, in addition to honing my soccer skills, though I'm unable to workout with the intensity or the duration I prefer to. I might start training other people as I am expertly knowledgeable in the field of exercise science.

Swimming and soccer are my main exercise focuses right now. Real martial arts training is too intense for me at moment.

[Sancho]

Did your wife make those? They sound achingly delicious.

Did manage to walk three times this week. Hurray for me.

Qimi! Me amiga!

El Sancho himself was the panqueques-de-buckwheat chef.

It's easy. Here's my recipe: (and methodology)

- get a bowl

- put some buckwheat flour in it
- also put some regular flour in it
- then add a pinch of baking soda and a pinch of salt
- splash some buttermilk in there
- squirt in some molasses (or bee's honey, depending on your taste)
- drop in a chicken's egg (remove the shell first)

- mix it all up
- add water to adjust the consistency of your slurry (more for skinny-minnys less for chubby-tubbys)

- get a cast-iron skillet (wards off anemia)
- smear some olive oil in it
- put it on the stove and fire that mother up

- pour in your panqueques-de-buckwheat batter
- before they start to bubble up, add your blueberries and pecans
(I like to make a smiley face with the berries and then give pancake-man some eyebrows and a Charlie Chaplin mustache with the pecans, but you can really do anything you want - helmets of the NFL for instance.)

- once the middle of the cake starts to bubble, flip it. (it's all in the wrist, not enough and it'll fold over on you, too much and it's on the ceiling)

- get a plate
- when pancake man's blueberry eyes start to bleed, slide him onto your plate

- repeat as necessary

- put a mellon baller-size scoop of Irish butter on your stack
- let it melt some
- pour some bona fide Canadian Maple Syrup over the entire contraption

- get a fork


***alternate method***

- get in a car and drive over to the IHOP
(Or better yet, walk)

[qimissung]

Sancho! Good and faithful companion! To all and sundry! I'm kind of hungry right now and IHOP is having a special this month, I do believe. But, omg, Sancho, these look so good! One day soon...thank you, kind friend of the sugar deprived.

[Sancho]

Don't go tilting at windmills on me, Qimi.

On second thought, tilt away. ATTACK them thar dragons. Life is short, you know.

Speaking of attacking one's inner demons and dragons, I may have had a setback in my attempt to go after the sugar monster. Following my buckwheat pancake experiment, I switched up to skinny pancakes, better known as crepes. The first couple were much enjoyed by my slightly overweight Springer Spaniel. The next couple came out looking more like omelets.

And then, Voila! Success! First we tried ham, spinach, and Swiss - C'est bon! Then things got a little crazy and the whole 90 day training plan went down in a blaze of glory. We went with strawberries, bananas, and Nutella on the inside and about a half a can of whipped cream on top - C'est si bon!

So, tomorrow it's back to the gym.

[qimissung]

At the mere mention of crepes my mouth is watering.

[Calidore]

U.S. News & World Report has updated their diet evaluations and ratings for 2014. They do an incredibly thorough job, and there's lots of good info here.

http://health.usnews.com/best-diet

[Calidore]

Possibly of interest to those on Atkins/paleo/related high-protein diets:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/la-sci-sn-high-protein-diets-age-20140304,0,5392380.story

[qimissung]

I've been taking yoga for a month now. I think I've found the right workout for me. Namaste.

[Calidore]

I've been taking yoga for a month now. I think I've found the right workout for me. Namaste.

Yoga was a good starter for me; hopefully it works for you also. Are you using DVDs or going to live classes?

[qimissung]

I'm going to live classes! I tried a DVD several years ago. I hurt my rotator cuff and found it difficult to do on my own. I get a feeling of having worked out, a sense of community, and I feel calm, peaceful and energized by the end.

[kev67]

Has anyone read The First 20 Minutes by Gretchen Reynolds? It is very motivating. (There are two books: I am referring to the one about the science).

[Calidore]

Two recent food articles of interest, one on how even five servings of fruits and vegetables may not be enough, and the other on the value of whole grains:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/la-sci-sn-fruit-vegetables-disease-20140401,0,1370607.story

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sns-201403250000--tms--premhnstr--k-e20140326-20140326,0,2777202.story

[qimissung]

Thanks for the book recommendation, Kev. I'm not much for non-fiction, but I did read a lengthy review at Amazon (:D). I'm not unfamiliar with the fact that inactivity is really bad for you-hence my commitment to improving my fitness, but I am a little concerned about the whole 150 minutes a week thing. My current goal is three yoga workouts a week and walking a couple of times a week. So far I'm at two workouts a week and a walk whenever my schedule permits. Baby steps!

Read the first article, Calidore. I just don't think I can do seven servings, though. I eat a raw carrot each day and another vegetable in the evening. I'll try to add another at lunch and I'm trying to add a fruit. The sugar in it might be bad for you, but people should just cut out juices. I know juicing is popular, but when you eat a fruit your body has to break down the cells in the skin and membranes and fiber and it just handles the sugar in it so much better than when it's simply dumped whole into your system.

[Iain Sparrow]

Read the first article, Calidore. I just don't think I can do seven servings, though. I eat a raw carrot each day and another vegetable in the evening. I'll try to add another at lunch and I'm trying to add a fruit. The sugar in it might be bad for you, but people should just cut out juices. I know juicing is popular, but when you eat a fruit your body has to break down the cells in the skin and membranes and fiber and it just handles the sugar in it so much better than when it's simply dumped whole into your system.

Seven servings of veggies and fruit a day!.. I'm beginning to think the people who write articles on nutrition don't have very busy lives. Also, commonsense tells me that how much you eat, including the foods that are good for you, depends on how active you are. I've drank two full glasses of low sodium V8 for years, and I'll eat a banana or pear every day, than some veggies with lunch and dinner, but that's it! Juicing is fine, I mix a batch up every week and add it to water. Sugar is sugar, your body hardly knows the difference between a glazed donut and an apple. The important thing is not consuming too many empty calories (donuts).

[Calidore]

My current goal is three yoga workouts a week and walking a couple of times a week. So far I'm at two workouts a week and a walk whenever my schedule permits. Baby steps!

That's how I did it also--just do what you can, and you'll gradually be able to do more.


Read the first article, Calidore. I just don't think I can do seven servings, though. I eat a raw carrot each day and another vegetable in the evening. I'll try to add another at lunch and I'm trying to add a fruit. The sugar in it might be bad for you, but people should just cut out juices. I know juicing is popular, but when you eat a fruit your body has to break down the cells in the skin and membranes and fiber and it just handles the sugar in it so much better than when it's simply dumped whole into your system.

Yeah, seven servings is a lot, but nature really doesn't care about convenience; happily, it doesn't require perfection either.

Plus, what constitutes a serving of fruit/veg must vary between people anyway. For example, I'm sure a serving for 6-foot-3, 240-pound me is larger than a serving for my 5-foot, 100-pound neighbor.

I just assume that if I'm still alive and in good health, I'm probably doing it well enough. Stressing out about healthy eating would seem to defeat the purpose, kind of like yoga boot camp.

[R.F. Schiller]

Does anywhere here do MMA? I used to try and run treadmills and lift weights, but I would always get bored and stop because it felt like I was exercising rather than doing a sport. I started doing MMA 8 months ago, and I lost over 25 pounds (I was 188 before, now around ~160-162). MMA is great because I got to punch and kick pads, spar and put people in armbars, allowing me to "exercise" without really knowing it. This is definitely a healthier weight for me because I'm only 20 years old, 5'10.5 and a have slightly below average bone structure, even for my age.

[Calidore]

I've just realized that I haven't posted an update on my own progress since May of last year. I have no excuse, since I started this thread in the first place.

My original intent behind starting with yoga last year was to use that to prep my body for "real" exercise. I quickly learned that yoga is real exercise and so stuck with it all year, adding more variety later on in the form of Tara Stiles' excellent four-disc This Is Yoga, which contains numerous workouts of varying lengths and difficulty. Problem was, holding poses was getting kinda boring, even though I was enjoying the exercise itself. I am still very glad I began with yoga; I just decided I needed some actual movement and activity, and therefore started thinking about more traditional workouts.

I'd heard lots of good things about Tony Horton's P90X, but you're expected to have a certain (high) level of fitness before beginning that program. (He has a helpful checklist you can use to tell if you're ready.) I decided to start at the bottom with the first level of his Power 90 program. I bought a set of exercise bands (Bodylastics) from Amazon and a Gold's Gym six-piece jigsaw floor mat ($20 at Walmart), and in January, away I went.

Horton's P90 programs are intended to be intensive; the idea is to work out six days per week for 90 days. I decided that I had no need to blast myself that way, so I'm doing it as a regular ongoing exercise program, generally about four days a week give or take with recovery days whenever needed.

The basic Power 90 consists of two levels (called "1-2" and "3-4") of two 30-45 minute workouts: "Sculpt" for strength-building and "Sweat" for aerobic conditioning. I was quickly glad I decided to begin at the beginning, as both of them kicked my butt thoroughly, especially "Sweat." I also discovered that my left elbow and right hip don't like these new workouts at all (feels like a joint thing rather than a muscle thing), but I can favor them enough that I can keep going.

Last month I decided that the remaining couple of moves I was struggling with weren't enough to keep holding myself back, so I promoted myself to level 3-4 and am now getting my butt thoroughly kicked again. Progress is progress, though, and the milestones are as gratifying as ever. For example: The first-level "Sculpt" workout opens with a set of standard pushups. The next level starts with decline pushups (feet on chair). That alone was enough to keep me from considering moving up for a while, but when I gave the declines a try last month, I discovered that I could do several. There's a nice confidence boost.

The effect of all this effort on me physically? My weight is still hanging around 240, but I've gone in a pant size (from 40 to 38) and two belt holes, so the weight distribution is definitely improving. My current goal in general is pretty modest: Keep working and improving, don't get injured, and hopefully when I turn 50 in a year and a half I'll look...well, okay for 50 anyway.

I also just realized that I haven't taken a picture since my "Before" picture in January of last year. I just took one, and I'm gratified to see that it does look better.

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9354&d=1409613467

I'll try to be better about updating from now on. Anyone else got stories to share?

[Sancho]

Dude, you're wasting away.

I bought a Fitbit. It exploits my slightly obsessive-compulsive nature.

[YesNo]

You look thinner than 240 pounds, Calidore.

My wife just went to L.A. Fitness to attend her first Zumba dance/exercise class. I might try that as well.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

Good job Calidore, you're looking good, as for me I'm still running, mixed with fast paced "power" walk.
in fact I'm swilling down the last of the coffee about to head out to the trail.
keep it up.

[qimissung]

You do look better, a bit trimmer and your arms look stronger, Calidore. The important thing is that you feel more fit and you are enjoying your workout. Impressive!

Last summer my doctor told me to go see an ENT as my thyroid seemed to be getting larger. I finally went this last April and that turned into a series of visits to have test run and pictures taken to determine if I had thyroid cancer. They could not make any such determination, so this last August out it came. The good news is that I do not have cancer. I actually feel a little better and seem to have a little more energy. They will be tinkering with my medication over the next few months.

I didn't go to yoga much this summer as I had ongoing issues with my sinuses, worse than it's been for years. I don't know what's up with that, but I got a migraine in mid-July and then had headaches daily until the operation. I think all the anesthesia and the morphine they gave me after finally knocked it out, lol.

Anyway, I'm back at yoga and taking a 70 classes in 90 days challenge. Eventually I'm going to have to lift some weights; it's the only thing that's really going to help with my flabby upper arms and tummy. I'll still do yoga, as I love the breathing and stretching, and it's so calming. I can't quit you, yoga!

[Calidore]

Thanks for the kind words, people.

Sorry to hear about your health problems, qimissung, but I'm glad things are improving for you. 70 yoga classes in 90 days sounds pretty grueling. What style of yoga is it, or do the classes cover an assortment of styles?

[qimissung]

I go to the Gentle Bliss classes, but it's still grueling when (A. You're not in the best shape, hehe and (B You have less energy than you used too. I may not make it, but it was time to push myself. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[Calidore]

I go to the Gentle Bliss classes, but it's still grueling when (A. You're not in the best shape, hehe and (B You have less energy than you used too. I may not make it, but it was time to push myself. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

That's a yoga-y name if I've ever heard one. That's also the yoga way, though--kill you gently and kindly.

[Dkbogord]

Nice sharing.

[papayahed]

Dude, you're wasting away.

I bought a Fitbit. It exploits my slightly obsessive-compulsive nature.


Dude, right? I bought one last year and wore it faithfully until I lost it. The biggest challenge for me is to not create a chart or graph with the data. My work just started a fitness challenge so I took the replacement (last years Christmas present) out of the box and got it revved up last week.

[papayahed]

Lookin' good Calidore!

[MANICHAEAN]

I'm getting cramp in the back of both lower legs lately, thats really slowing me down.
Not that being seventy one has anything to do with it.
After googling the symptoms, I came to the conclusion that it was the diet since I came to Japan.
Too much coffee with my addicted South American collegue at work, too many drinks with the Texan one,sandwiches, burgers, burgers, burgers.
So I've switched to: bananas, water, tea, pasta, fish, multi-vits and trust it gets better.
Any of you get these cramps?

[YesNo]

I don't get those cramps, but one of my cousins told me I should take magnesium or rub some lotion made out of it on my skin. If I recall, it is supposed to cure a lot of stuff and I think he mentioned "cramps", but I haven't tried it. But then I didn't have any of the problems he said it was supposed to cure.

[MANICHAEAN]

Thanks YesNo. I'll try the magnesium supplement.

[Sancho]

I'm getting cramp in the back of both lower legs lately, thats really slowing me down.
Not that being seventy one has anything to do with it.
After googling the symptoms, I came to the conclusion that it was the diet since I came to Japan.
Too much coffee with my addicted South American collegue at work, too many drinks with the Texan one,sandwiches, burgers, burgers, burgers.
So I've switched to: bananas, water, tea, pasta, fish, multi-vits and trust it gets better.
Any of you get these cramps?

Howdy, M'

Are you sure it's a muscle cramp and not some sort of tendinitis?

I'm finding as I get older that it's getting harder and to keep those tendons that run from the bottom of my feet to my heel and along the back of my legs loose and flexible - the plantar fascia to the Achilles' tendon to the hamstrings. I can't just bounce out of bed In the morning and hit it hard anymore. I've got to ease into the day and make sure everything is warmed up before trying anything strenuous, or I'll risk rupture.

I'd suggest a dynamic stretching regimen and then maybe an shoe insole that supports your biomechanical walking style. The Japanese make great shoes. I like Pearl Izumi and Mizuno.

[MANICHAEAN]

Thanks Sancho
Getting old is not much fun, but I work on the principle, if it works, use it.
I'll try the stretching and the shoe insole you mentioned.
I think its a combination of all the long distance running I used to do, so that now I've got:
1. Wearing of the right knee joint ( or so the X rays show.)
2. Varicose veins in the left leg. ( the result no doubt of No 1.)
3. Have had gout before, but got on top of that by cutting out offal and drinking loads of water.
4. Tendinitis I've had and recognize. Doc says dont stand up so much and rest with your legs elevated.
5. This new one, cramp is a bit of a mystery as there are so many variables when you research it.
Take care
M.

[Sancho]

Good principle.

I'll piggyback on that thought:
- use it or loose it
- if you stop moving you rust

Out of curiosity, do you still run?

Also, have you ruled out a thrombotic vein?

[YesNo]

The part about stop moving or rust made me realize I best not skip my walk this morning.

I think I'm going to sign up for a yoga class. I've tried that on my own from a book and stretched my ankles so much I had to stop. If I can handle that I'll try Zumba.

[Sancho]

Hey, that gives me an idea for a workout T-shirt. Something like:

TEAM WD-40

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae197/mollyandbruno/th_11d6a7870efefb92e8c3fbc7fdfbaf04_zps873df9a2.jp g (http://s971.photobucket.com/albums/ae197/mollyandbruno/?action=view&current=11d6a7870efefb92e8c3fbc7fdfbaf04_zps873df9 a2.jpg)

Move or Rust. If You Rust, You Die. So You Bet We Sweat

[YesNo]

Good T-shirt. The sweating part, however, now sounds like it would encourage eventual rusting, but it does rhyme.

[Sancho]

I was hoping the WD-40 would help with the rust. (Water Displacement Formula #40)

[Calidore]

I was hoping the WD-40 would help with the rust. (Water Displacement Formula #40)

Is that what the WD stands for? I never knew that.

YesNo: Having done some yoga now, I can't imagine doing it from a book, especially to start. Having someone live, even on video, giving you real-time cues and cautions (and timings) is a good idea.

[YesNo]

I agree about the yoga. I didn't try it long on my own. Maybe the routine will also make me more committed since it would be a scheduled event.

[Sancho]

Ditto

Despite several tries, I've never been able to stick with a yoga program - too much meditation and stillness involved. My wife and I tried Rodney Yee's yoga DVDs. She stuck with it. I did not. Therefore, she reaps the benefits and I do not. "Inhale...Axehale...Inhale...Axehale..." Screw it - I'm going for a bike ride.

As for WD-40, ain't the Internet grand? I've been using their stuff for years, but only recently learned about the history of the formula. Evidently it took the inventor forty tries to get it right. Presumably with WD-39 you still got some brown spots.

I love the smell of WD-40 in the morning

[YesNo]

If it is all inhaling and axehaling, I should be able to handle that. Just working my way up to zumba which my wife tells me isn't easy.

[Calidore]

Ditto

Despite several tries, I've never been able to stick with a yoga program - too much meditation and stillness involved. My wife and I tried Rodney Yee's yoga DVDs. She stuck with it. I did not. Therefore, she reaps the benefits and I do not. "Inhale...Axehale...Inhale...Axehale..." Screw it - I'm going for a bike ride.

As for WD-40, ain't the Internet grand? I've been using their stuff for years, but only recently learned about the history of the formula. Evidently it took the inventor forty tries to get it right. Presumably with WD-39 you still got some brown spots.

I love the smell of WD-40 in the morning

I'd be interested in seeing a version history of WD-40.

With yoga, it really depends on the style and who's teaching. I also have zero interest in the new-agey aspects of yoga, so I sought out programs that were specifically geared toward physical workouts. The Kimberly Fowler video I mentioned at the top of the thread is a good place to start.

[papayahed]

Ya, I can't do yoga either. It's too quiet. Tai Chi is also quiet but I find I really like it plus it gives you the whole range of motion like yoga.

[NikolaiI]

Don't eat more than you need. . don't eat any sugar, breathing - yes, is key. . deep, calm breathing is exceptionally good for you.

Honestly, not eating sugar, also, rarely eating meat, is so transformative. . . it really can change your life completely, and it gives you a rather large edge in almost any competitive endeavor. Because when your metabolism, immune system and the rest are freed of that burden, you can easily reach perfect health; and then things will come with so much less effort necessary than before, and you can achieve a ton of things that you wouldn't have been able to before.

[YesNo]

I agree that overeating is the worst exercise one can engage in.

[Calidore]

I agree that overeating is the worst exercise one can engage in.

You can make exercise out of any activity. For example, one-handing a loaded pizza slice builds dexterity. If several slices must be eaten while practicing, well, sacrifice is often necessary to achieve one's goal.

[qimissung]

All you guys who don't like yoga-haters be haters. Feeling Taylor Swifty here.

[YesNo]

I haven't looked up the research, but I read in a book on hypnosis some time back (can't remember the name) that if you visualize yourself exercising, it is almost as good, in terms of things like weight loss, as actually exercising.

[Hawkman]

For peaceful, enjoyable exercise I heartily recommend hawking. You get to spend hours traipsing through the countryside, breathing fresh air and looking at the pretty wildlife. You have the company of one of nature's miracles on your fist, (which is like carrying a 2lb bag of sugar in your left hand all day) whilst climbing up hills. Good cardiovascular exercise, this. Then, when you see some pretty wildlife which looks tasty (either to you or the hawk) you let slip the bird and it chases the quarry down, with you in hot pursuit. This is when you get a really good workout, as sprinting, all togged up in your wellies and hawking gear with a game bag and a telemetry set slapping around on your hip, boosts the circulation and allows you build on all that good work you'd been doing when you were just climbing hills. You also get to leap over streams, wade through mud, and battle your way through hedges. And when you finally track your hawk down, you will, hopefully, have some really healthy food to put in the fridge or freezer. Game is very good for you, being pretty much fat free. I lost loads of weight when I was hawking regularly.

The only downside is the bird's predilection for squirrels. Nasty things, squirrels. Teeth like chisels. If your bird latches on to one of these, you need to get in quick so it doesn't get bitten. Not much eating on a squirrel either. One time my bird took off after a roe deer. It saw something furry with a flashing rump and must have thought it was jumbo rabbit. You should have seen the disappointment on her face when she got close and realised how big it was!

[Iain Sparrow]

I haven't looked up the research, but I read in a book on hypnosis some time back (can't remember the name) that if you visualize yourself exercising, it is almost as good, in terms of things like weight loss, as actually exercising.

You lose weight by burning more calories than you consume. Unless you're under some hypnotic trance while jogging you are not going to lose weight.

My god, have we become so decadent and lazy that instead of exercising and sticking to a balanced diet, we just need to visualize what it might be like to be healthy? Two years ago I weighed 210lbs, after making some lifestyle changes and working at it, I'm now at my proper weight, 180lbs.

[qimissung]

For peaceful, enjoyable exercise I heartily recommend hawking. You get to spend hours traipsing through the countryside, breathing fresh air and looking at the pretty wildlife. You have the company of one of nature's miracles on your fist, (which is like carrying a 2lb bag of sugar in your left hand all day) whilst climbing up hills. Good cardiovascular exercise, this. Then, when you see some pretty wildlife which looks tasty (either to you or the hawk) you let slip the bird and it chases the quarry down, with you in hot pursuit. This is when you get a really good workout, as sprinting, all togged up in your wellies and hawking gear with a game bag and a telemetry set slapping around on your hip, boosts the circulation and allows you build on all that good work you'd been doing when you were just climbing hills. You also get to leap over streams, wade through mud, and battle your way through hedges. And when you finally track your hawk down, you will, hopefully, have some really healthy food to put in the fridge or freezer. Game is very good for you, being pretty much fat free. I lost loads of weight when I was hawking regularly.

The only downside is the bird's predilection for squirrels. Nasty things, squirrels. Teeth like chisels. If your bird latches on to one of these, you need to get in quick so it doesn't get bitten. Not much eating on a squirrel either. One time my bird took off after a roe deer. It saw something furry with a flashing rump and must have thought it was jumbo rabbit. You should have seen the disappointment on her face when she got close and realised how big it was!


Or maybe just hiking, lol. Although hawks are utterly gorgeous.

Also, Iain, there's an article in today's New York Times Magazine, "The Thought That Counts," which tells about a study by a psychologist of 84 hotel chambermaids. "The maids had mostly reported that they didn't get much exercise in a typical week. The researchers primed the experimental group to think differently about their work by informing them that cleaning rooms was fairly serious exercise-as much if not more than the surgeon general recommends. Once their expectations were shifted, those maids lost weight, relative to a control group ( and also improved on other measures like body mass index and hip to waist ratio). All other factors were held constant. The only difference was the change in mind-set."

It's just one study, but it does seem to demonstrate the power of suggestion.

[Calidore]

What are the other factors that stayed constant? My initial reaction is that once given the idea of cleaning as exercise, those maids likely approached it that way and were more vigorous in their work. Does it also say by how much exactly their weights and measurements changed?

[qimissung]

Those are very good questions but that's pretty much all it says about that one study, Calidore. The whole article was pretty fascinating, though.

[Iain Sparrow]

Or maybe just hiking, lol. Although hawks are utterly gorgeous.

Also, Iain, there's an article in today's New York Times Magazine, "The Thought That Counts," which tells about a study by a psychologist of 84 hotel chambermaids. "The maids had mostly reported that they didn't get much exercise in a typical week. The researchers primed the experimental group to think differently about their work by informing them that cleaning rooms was fairly serious exercise-as much if not more than the surgeon general recommends. Once their expectations were shifted, those maids lost weight, relative to a control group ( and also improved on other measures like body mass index and hip to waist ratio). All other factors were held constant. The only difference was the change in mind-set."

It's just one study, but it does seem to demonstrate the power of suggestion.


Oh I definitely believe in the power of suggestion. I think mindset and perception is incredibly important for things like aging, and even weight loss and exercise... but I would need to see a follow up study on those 84 chambermaids, determine if such things have staying power. I've read studies on mindset and boosting or slowing metabolic rates, and there isn't much proof that it works.

*edit*
And I almost forgot... earlier this year I listened to an interesting audiobook, 13 Things That Don't Make Sense by Michael Brooks. Most of the chapters I was expecting; why we haven't come up with a Grand Unifying Theory for the universe, how is it that the first organic life came to be on Earth, dark matter and dark energy, and so on... but then there was a chapter on the Placebo Effect, and that was perplexing. Scientists don't know to what extent or even why the placebo effect works, only that it is far more dynamic than we once believed. Indeed, there are some popular medications and medical therapies/treatments that won't have the desired outcomes for patients unless they are fully aware that they are taking the medication, and or what to expect from certain therapies.
That is if they were unknowingly slipped the medication, it would have little to no effect on them. So I'm left wondering if that is what the chambermaids experienced, the placebo effect?

[qimissung]

The placebo effect is discussed in the article. Here it is, by the way:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/magazine/what-if-age-is-nothing-but-a-mind-set.html?_r=0

[Sancho]

Good article.

"The mind is a terrible thing, and it be stopped in our lifetimes."

I think we can have it both ways in the case of the hotel maids. By both ways I mean, calories in-calories out, as well as the power of positive thinking. Deep in the human psyche there is a need to do work as efficiently as possible, to save energy so to speak. But then take that work and call it a healthy exercise program and all of sudden movement is prioritized over efficiency. I'll bet the maids who thought of it in this respect took more steps while doing their job, made more trips back and forth to the cart in the hall, took the stairs instead of the elevator, etc. And if you hooked them up to an activity monitor I think it'd prove it.

Papaya and I are in the Fitbit club. The Fitbit is a little digital doohickey you wear on your wrist and among other things it tells you how many steps you take each day. I can guarantee you I move more when I wear it than when I don't. I'll make two trips to the barn carrying smaller loads rather than one big trip. I don't skip my daily run as much. I park farther from the building. I absolutely don't take the elevator. Every week they e-mail you a summary in which they tell you your average daily step count, how many miles you went that week, how many active minutes you had, and here's the kicker - they give you these little digital badges for milestones: 100 miles, 500 miles, 1000 miles, I'm embarrassed to say how much I enjoy getting a new badge.

[YesNo]

The placebo effect is discussed in the article. Here it is, by the way:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/magazine/what-if-age-is-nothing-but-a-mind-set.html?_r=0

This sentence from that article makes sense to me:


When we are “actively making new distinctions, rather than relying on habitual” categorizations, we’re alive; and when we’re alive, we can improve.
Although I try to pay attention, I realize I don't do it often enough.

[YesNo]

Papaya and I are in the Fitbit club. The Fitbit is a little digital doohickey you wear on your wrist and among other things it tells you how many steps you take each day.

I like gadgets. It looks like a potential Christmas present. Don't they have apps like this for your phone?

[Sancho]

Yep, Ya gotta download the app to your phone or tablet and then it'll automatically synch itself, but Ya gotta buy the doohickey - 'bout a hundred bucks. It's got a motion sensor of some sort and a Bluetooth connection. I probably won't replace it when it breaks. By then, with any luck, there'll be a smart watch that incorporates all that happy horsesh*t into one device. Then I'll be back down to one wrist. Woo-hoo.

[YesNo]

Hopefully by the time it breaks there will be something better. I like the idea of not having something on my wrists. No wrist watch either. I assume the phone is more accurate.

[qimissung]

I got my sons fit bits for Christmas. They don't use them. They said it was more useful for people who run, and they lift weights.

I bet you are so right about those chambedmaids, Sancho. I know I'd step more lively if I thought I was getting some benefit out of it.

[YesNo]

I am having second thoughts about getting my wife one for Christmas. She doesn't need to lose any weight, but the present might imply that I think she should.

[Sancho]

Good thinkin', Y/N.

You could get her a new mop and a bucket.

Wait, no, hmmm, scratch that.

How about a Lexus?

[Calidore]

I am having second thoughts about getting my wife one for Christmas. She doesn't need to lose any weight, but the present might imply that I think she should.

Yeah, that's definitely the kind of present she should request first.

[papayahed]

Papaya and I are in the Fitbit club. The Fitbit is a little digital doohickey you wear on your wrist and among other things it tells you how many steps you take each day. I can guarantee you I move more when I wear it than when I don't. I'll make two trips to the barn carrying smaller loads rather than one big trip. I don't skip my daily run as much. I park farther from the building. I absolutely don't take the elevator. Every week they e-mail you a summary in which they tell you your average daily step count, how many miles you went that week, how many active minutes you had, and here's the kicker - they give you these little digital badges for milestones: 100 miles, 500 miles, 1000 miles, I'm embarrassed to say how much I enjoy getting a new badge.


That's is pretty accurate. I noticed that before Fitbit I would walk through the tank farm, with the Fitbit I walk around the tank farm. True Story: A guy I work with walks in the morning. One morning a police officer stopped him to say one of the neighbors reported somebody suspicious in the neighborhood. The police officer asked my friend why he was weaving around the cars. My friend answered "Because I'm trying to get my steps". hahahaahaha

I don't have the wrist type Fitbit, I have the cute magenta one that you can put in your pocket or belt. I don't think it does as much but it's less intrusive.

[Calidore]

I was doing okay at the old Power 90 workouts and wanted more variety than just those two routines over and over, so I've promoted myself to the Power 90 Master Series. This was created after P90X and is much more polished than the original Power 90. It consists of six workouts: three cardio and three strength. I've run through all of them twice now just to get acclimated, and holy cow, I'll be here a while. These routines are not only longer and tougher than the originals, but they have a much greater variety of moves, which are also often more complex in themselves. Entry-level strength aside, my questionable coordination and balance make some of these pretty difficult, so this will take quite a bit of practice. Thankfully, Tony Horton is very good about suggesting modifications for different skill and fitness levels--I need both.

It's amazing how many sadistic variations of pushups and squats people can dream up. Here's a few of the former you can try at home for fun (I'm lucky to do more than a few of any of these):

* Sphinx pushups: Start in plank, but resting on your elbows instead of your hands. Then push yourself up using your triceps.

* Pike Press: Start in a high Downward Dog and raise & lower yourself while holding that pose, thus mostly using your shoulders.

* Plank > pushup > side arm balance > plank > pushup > other side arm balance > repeat

Squats include things like the One-Legged Russian Ruble Squat, which involves standing on one leg while squatting down to pick up a bottle cap at your toe, straightening up while passing the cap to your other hand, and squatting and replacing the cap on the floor; then stand back up and repeat--all ideally without letting the other foot touch the floor. Hah.

I also picked up an inexpensive heart rate monitor (the Polar FT1 @ $40, recommended by Consumersearch), which I understand will let me know should my heart stop during aerobics. Got one positive from it right away: My resting heart rate is a pretty good 53.

Now the nervous-making part. I've just gotten medical coverage, which I haven't had in 15 years and very seldom used when I did. I now have to schedule my first checkups in probably more than 20 years. Not too worried about the physical, but I doubt I'll be as lucky with the dental.

[Darcy88]

I'm not technically overweight, but I'm as fat as I've been in about six years. I obsess over my weight and find this extremely distressing. But a few months ago I bought a sweet two-hundred pound punching bag at a pawn shop and since then I've been attacking the poor thing with furious determination for two or more hours a day, and have lost about fifteen pounds in that time. Kickboxing is my favourite form of exercise, I have been doing it for years now, and this is the first time I've had in my possession an actual heavy bag, all my previous bags having been jimmy-rigged poor-man's improvisations, the last consisting of a hockey bag filled with dirt and old clothing, duct-taped in the areas it split open at. It is very nice to have a sturdy, resilient thing to let fly my fists, elbows, knees and shins at.

I've also been doing skip rope, running on the spot and jumping jacks.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

Went on my usual run this morning to make room for the Turkey tomorrow.
I'll likely hit the trail early, early tomorrow morning to make room for desert.

[papayahed]

I lost my fitbit. I don't know what happened. It was in my pocket at lunch and when I got home it was gone.

[YesNo]

I hope you find it. Did you check your car?

On a side issue, but relevant to the thread, I have considered looking for some self-hypnosis app to listen to on my phone. My problem is that I understand an optimal maximum weight for me would be about 179 pounds given my height and weight. I am about 185 pounds or so, but I don't check often nor do I have a fancy digital scale.

Does anyone have any recommendations for self-hypnosis apps to loose a small amount of weight, say, 10 pounds?

[Sancho]

New Year's Resolutions anybody?

[papayahed]

It's not really a new years resolution as I started it two weeks ago but it's close. I love Coke and all things sugary and carbonated. Love. Sooooo... I made a deal with myself that if I can go without pop (soda for you non-midwesterners) until March 30 I can put a down payment on a trip I really want to take in July. I've also thrown fast food in the picture as well. That used to mean anything with a drive through but now Panera has a drive through and I don't necessarily consider them fast food so I'll have to come up with another definition.

[Sancho]

Good one. I should probably do something like that, although my weakness is the bakery, which kicks out the Panera drive-through - "Would you like to add a bakery item for 99 cents, sir?" - "Yes...yes I would. In fact I'd like to add a dozen bakery items, thank you very much. Oh hey, is that a Krispy Kreme across the street?"

[papayahed]

Luckily, Santa noticed that I lost my fitbit and brought me a new one. Now the old one will reappear any day now. Today I took 1775 steps today! My biggest exertion today was putting on decent clothes to open the door for the pizza man.

[easy75]

I resolve to lose 10lbs over the winter. I resolve to do more cardio at the expense of weights. I may even get a fitbit! I am curious papaya, can you give me a brief eval on yours? What you like and don't like about it?

[NikolaiI]

I have been thinking about and sort of meaning to post here for a while. . .

1) you can do anything - you can get to any health you wish to, if you want to. .

The most important things are what you eat and above all, drinking enough water. . . If you only drink water when you're thirsty, you're not drinking anywhere near enough. . . It is possible to drink too much, but most people - at least around here - are dehydrated a lot of the time. When you are, then your other organs suffer, because your body is always depleting itself of water, and when it doesn't get enough through drinking, it takes water from the brain, liver and kidneys. . .

So that alone is like huge, #1. . . then, eating healthy foods, natural foods. . .that accounts for so much.

But then, it's not just what you eat, but how you eat it. . . if you eat something in an anxious state of mind, or angry, it can actually do your body some harm. . .

Then - besides these things, there are like, literally hundreds of things, sort of secret things, you can do to keep yourself in perfect health. . . I won't go into all of them here - but things like relaxing. . . stretching. . . Above all how you feel about yourself, how healthy you believe you are, makes a bigger difference than you might think. Chapter 4 of Varieties of Religious Experience, about healthy-mindedness and the mind-cure movement (of the 19th century) is an extremely interesting and useful treatise on the subject.

Besides the mental aspect, mental formations and what not, there are other secrets (not because nature is tricky, but because she is sublime) to reaching perfect health. . . connected with the relaxation one. . .there's a method you can use, sort of a shortcut to meditation. . . it's more or less a physiological 'button' that you can do to send waves of relaxation throughout your body. In a very calm, peaceful, state of mind (because it's mutually beneficial to the technique), close your eyes, and gently roll them up towards the back of your head. This relaxes muscles and tension, and strengthens them, because relieving stress is usually one of the best ways to strengthen the body. . . My dad taught me this ever since I was a little kid. . It's super, super, useful and beneficial - more so when coupled with the literally dozens of ways you can give yourself small edges in the health and wellness area. Using it - when you're tired, when you've got a difficult task - can allow you to perform at a much higher level for much longer. . . For instance, if you ever have to stay up for longer than usual, especially if it's a whole lot longer, this method is invaluable.

Time I use is usually just 15-30 seconds.

So - anyway, as long as you believe in yourself, you can basically accomplish anything as far personal health is concerned. Don't let anything hold you back from achieving whatever state of healthy body you wish to achieve.

[qimissung]

That's interesting about the eye/meditation thing, Nikoli. I'll give that a try.

I finished the 70 yoga classed in 90 days thing at the end of November. I think I made it to 45-50. Which is fine. I was weak, still am, so I was really doing it more to challenge myself to go to more difficult classes, which I did, and to go more than twice a week, which I also did. I guess my New Year's goal is to keep it up. Right now there's a little tension between that and going to see some movies that are out. There's a fair number that I want to see, but I also want to keep making progress physically. Namaste, y'all!

[Sancho]

My Fitbit broke. I'm free! Free at last!

[Calidore]

Congrats on finishing the yoga run, qimissung!

[NikolaiI]

That's interesting about the eye/meditation thing, Nikoli. I'll give that a try.

I finished the 70 yoga classed in 90 days thing at the end of November. I think I made it to 45-50. Which is fine. I was weak, still am, so I was really doing it more to challenge myself to go to more difficult classes, which I did, and to go more than twice a week, which I also did. I guess my New Year's goal is to keep it up. Right now there's a little tension between that and going to see some movies that are out. There's a fair number that I want to see, but I also want to keep making progress physically. Namaste, y'all!

I do hope you like it. I've been aware of it since I was a kid, and like I say, it can help you in any endeavor, especially when used in conjunction with other meditation techniques. Healing and relaxing- very useful.

[Calidore]

My Fitbit broke. I'm free! Free at last!

Accidentally got caught between a hammer and the table? I hate when that happens.

[Sancho]

Haha!
Wierd, huh?

[qimissung]

Congrats on finishing the yoga run, qimissung!

Gracias, Calidore!

Or perhaps, Sancho, it fell to the ground while you were walking and you accidentally trod on it?

[Snowqueen]

I finished the 70 yoga classed in 90 days thing at the end of November. I think I made it to 45-50. Which is fine. I was weak, still am, so I was really doing it more to challenge myself to go to more difficult classes, which I did, and to go more than twice a week, which I also did. I guess my New Year's goal is to keep it up. Right now there's a little tension between that and going to see some movies that are out. There's a fair number that I want to see, but I also want to keep making progress physically. Namaste, y'all!

Oh, good news! Congrats, Qimi. :)

[qimissung]

Thank you, Snowqueen!

Also, one of my teachers said that moving your body in usual ways was a very good way to help prevent alzheimers (moves into downward dog). That is somewhat motivating. :D

[NikolaiI]

My yoga diet is a mix of a lot of a few different disciplines. Aikido, movements and breath exercises, a couple of Tai Chi exercises, and one very wonderful Kundalini one. The Kundalini one is an extremely simple, and extremely effective one. . I've been surprised at how good it is, and also how simple it is. It's similar to a Tai Chi one where you stand akimbo, and move slowly looking forwards to backwards, but with this one you just have your arms outstretched, and do the same thing... I'll try to find a video later!

[YesNo]

The kundalini exercise sounds interesting. If you can find the video, I might give it a try.

I did listen to a hypnosis tape once and fell asleep in the process. So far I've lost 1 pound. That is, I've seen the scale hit 184 rather than 185-187 more often than not in the morning. I don't think the hypnosis tape did that, but that is beside the point of losing a pound. My goal is 175 more or less.

[NikolaiI]

I wasn't able to find it - it was a few years ago, and there's too many videos for me to locate it now, it would seem.

[Calidore]

No need for Tony Horton today. I just spent an hour shoveling snow, and that looks to be only the first installment of several by tonight. And tomorrow I've promised to help my friend deliver a pinball machine, though at least it's an old one and relatively light.

[YesNo]

Yeah, the snow is coming down. It's kind of beautiful. I plan to walk to the library after lunch.

Regarding Kundalini exercises, I may try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCpeQhEQQZw I like their yoga mats as well.

By the way, I weighed myself this morning and I might have lost another pound. (!) I'm now 183. I have no explanation for this. I don't want to become like Walter White in the final season of Breaking Bad when he was hiding in Vermont. I checked the scale. It is one of those mechanical ones that do not require batteries nor connectivity to an app. It seemed to be OK. I suggested to my wife that we get one of the more modern scales and she reminded me that if I ever actually do lose weight the old one should register it just as well.

[NikolaiI]

Moving things is one of the best ways to stay in shape, I've found..

YesNo, have you ever heard of the trick of drinking a glass of water before eating? I've heard it's a useful thing to do if you're trying to lose weight. Another variation, one which I would probably prefer, is to eat an apple before dinner - the reasoning is that it takes a while to eat it, and also, there's plenty of water in it.

Much love and all the best in your endeavor. I really wish my grandfather and others I have known had cared more about their health. To me it's always been on of the most important things, and among other things, I've spent much of my life on the question of how to have perfect health - primarily preventatively, so that I will never be sick. :-) My grandfather lived in your city; he was very intelligent but very addicted to alcohol, and he was a very talented pianist, although I only heard him play a few times.

There's a nice thought about health I sometimes recall - "keeping your body healthy is an expression of gratitude to the cosmos" (slightly paraphrased), from Hanh

[YesNo]

I usually drink a lot of water in the form of coffee and herbal teas. It sounds like a good idea. I agree with the quote about gratitude.

The library is closed today because the weather is quite nasty, snow all over the place and still falling. I was hoping to take a walk.

[Clopin]

Something health related I've been doing is juicing two lemons in the morning and adding the juice to a four litre milk-jug of water and drinking the entire thing throughout the day. Lemon is good for you and it zips up the water making it nicer to drink, it's also easy to keep pouring from the jug while you read, or sit at the computer etc, until it's all gone.

[YesNo]

We do something similar with apple cider vinegar and honey. Heat a cup of water. Put in one tablespoon of honey into the heated water and stir it until it dissolves. Then add one tablespoon of apple cider vinegar and pour it into a larger container. Add cold water, perhaps a quart or so more, and drink throughout the day.

[Clopin]

Ya that's probably really good. I was thinking of adding a bunch of stuff, I still might. Apple cider vinegar is a good idea.

Also it's so cute how you refer to almost everything as 'we' ^.^

[qimissung]

Lemon water is tasty. I've heard Apple Cider Vinegar is good for you. I have a rather creepy story concerning it. A couple of years ago I was drinking a glass of water with a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in it each day. Then one day I noticed that a small cyst I'd had for a while had gotten quite a bit larger. I know you're not supposed to do this, but I put a hot pack on it. I touched it and stuff started to come out. It got quite a bit smaller over the next several days. I had stopped drinking the acv, but started again, then noticed that the cyst was getting larger again. I stopped and started over several more days, but always the same thing happened. When I stopped, the cyst quit growing. When I drank it, it grew. Shades of Alice, I guess. Anyway, I stopped drinking it and the cyst is gone now.

[YesNo]

Also it's so cute how you refer to almost everything as 'we' ^.^

The "we" is my wife and I.

I hadn't heard of any problems with cysts, qimissumg, but if it causes problems one shouldn't drink it.

[Clopin]

I know it is! That's why it's so sweet.

[qimissung]

Well, the thought did cross my mind that it was pulling out toxins. I quit anyway.

[papayahed]

aaggghhhhhhh!!!! I just found the "myfitnesspal" app. Talk about feeding my numbers obsession!! Soooo in addition to counting the number of steps (it can sync with fitbit), I can count calories with the push of a button (or two). I input what I eat and when I exercise and it spits out calories consumed, calories burned for exercise, and nutritional info like amounts of vitamnins and minerals consumed.

I wish I never met this app, I've been obsessing about my Calcium intake since I found it. Imagine all the charts and graphs I can create.

This is bad.

[YesNo]

Regarding Kundalini exercises, I may try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCpeQhEQQZw I like their yoga mats as well.

By the way, I weighed myself this morning and I might have lost another pound. (!) I'm now 183. I have no explanation for this.

I've followed this Kundalini yoga video twice so far. I think I'm going to continue with it. It is not as easy as it looks. I haven't been able to complete all the exercises. I also can't sit in the lotus position which seems to be a required part of some of these exercises.

I've read warnings that "raising Kundalini" might increase schizophrenia. I haven't noticed that I am any more schizophrenic than usual, but I've only done the exercises twice so far. Hopefully something interesting will happen.

[NikolaiI]

Warning: long rambling post and not all that interesting.


Hehe, yes, Kundalini is an interesting one for that reason. . from what I understand, it's just something you want to do in the proper stages. There's a really wonderful book I read quite a few years ago - Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness, by Gopi Krishna - I definitely consider a worthwhile read, if only for the philosophy of it. .

Yesterday I decided, while out in the air doing a bit of stretching, I would go ahead and describe the movement I do, even though I wasn't able to find the video for it. The reason being, it's actually a simple enough one that words could probably describe it well enough. .

So, all it is, you stand in a natural posture - I believe, a little sturdy pose - and then you have your arms stretched out to either side - not rigid, but pretty well fully extended. Then, you turn your body from front to back, first to your left, then to your right - going from looking ahead to looking 180º behind -

I do it loosely, a principle taught in Aikido, Tai Chi, and others. . . I sort of try to lead with my head's motion, so that the whole body moves smoothly. One thing I notice is that without this and all the other practices, there's a tendency not to move smoothly - I guess that's the physical equivalent of every time we work against ourselves -

I'm nowhere other than a novice - though I've been learning how to move my body as well as possible all my life, I wouldn't want to be anything other than one -

But I can say that this little exercise is truly fantastic. One thing I noticed fairly early after I had started doing this, is that it seems to strengthen a lot of the muscles in your body - some I didn't even use all that often, that you won't if you only walk, ride a bike, etc. - so, it had a wonderful sort of effect. . . hard to describe - it was hard to describe then and still is now, but that basically, it strengthened those muscles but also in a connected way - like, it

it really is hard to describe, lol! But it's the one exercise that seems to do more as far as reaching all kinds of good muscles, and bringing them together in a natural and smooth way -
It's hard to say why, but it's like the one exercise I would ever need to use, a long with a couple basic stretching ones, to stay in good shape. Kind of to the body as Zen is to the mind. .

But I'm sure Tai Chi in its entirety could be better - I've experienced that nothing seems to be as holistically healing and strengthening than that - It also seems to take more of an attention span than almost anything, even Zazen - but that's just for me, I also do believe doing these things that work like this - the most healing, although at the beginning most difficult - is the best way to do anything, for me personally I've gone a little different way, which is just a mix of breath meditation, Yoga/Aikido/Tai Chi disciplines, and the rest. Vipassana or Zazen whenever possible, sometimes staring at trees on the horizon, sometimes watching a bug or a spider, sometimes climbing trees, sometimes running, sometimes walking, sometimes doing stretches and working out - of all the exercises I do, the least natural it seems, and truly the one where I am not focused on finding peace. . .

But then, it could just as well as be said that I am a lazy person, and I do all of smattering of disciplines that I do because they are the way of least effort - being sick is so much bother - so I stay healthy. And then to stay healthy, I do the least amount of effort, which involves staying healthy using the best possible methods. It's funny, but it's true.

That's why laziness is considered a virtue by those who are most wise, and business is consider a vice - busyness is good for someone if they know what they are doing, but since most people do not know what they're doing - laziness would be better, so they would not be making messes in the world.

Even for someone who knows what they are doing - laziness is generally better, because laziness occurs when there is nothing left to do - when everything runs naturally, by itself and supervision.

This is the great truth at the heart of several religious, or wisdom traditions, although it is seldom said so bluntly.

And also, anytime you have the working out mentality - which I do, sometimes, because I am lazy. . . I mean, I am too lazy to do it the right way: in the whole of the earth, you will find nothing which "works out" - no animal which engages in an activity solely to strengthen muscles, to somehow make oneself more than one is. . .

All of the good results of things in nature are the results of actions that come naturally to that critter - Apes are so strong, because they climb trees and eat bananas; or alternatively, and equally true, they are so strong because their DNA tells them to be that strong.


Oh, and this Kundalini exercise is also exactly like one of the Tai Chi warming up exercises, although the later involves one standing akimbo, and doing the same motion to 180º left and right, but with a very, very slow movement, and also with a very slow inhalation and exhalation (exhalation when one is turning towards looking back, and inhaling when one is turning towards the front).

[YesNo]

aaggghhhhhhh!!!! I just found the "myfitnesspal" app. Talk about feeding my numbers obsession!! Soooo in addition to counting the number of steps (it can sync with fitbit), I can count calories with the push of a button (or two). I input what I eat and when I exercise and it spits out calories consumed, calories burned for exercise, and nutritional info like amounts of vitamnins and minerals consumed.

I wish I never met this app, I've been obsessing about my Calcium intake since I found it. Imagine all the charts and graphs I can create.

This is bad.

It seems like there's an app for just about everything. Even scales have them.

I even found an app that when I point the phone into the sky it will give me the name of the stars I would see there if it wasn't cloudy and the streetlights weren't so bright. If I point it at my feet it would show me the stars down there if the earth vanished. There's an app to let me know where my wife and kids have been throughout the day.

[YesNo]

There's a really wonderful book I read quite a few years ago - Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness, by Gopi Krishna - I definitely consider a worthwhile read, if only for the philosophy of it. .

I'll see if I can find it.



So, all it is, you stand in a natural posture - I believe, a little sturdy pose - and then you have your arms stretched out to either side - not rigid, but pretty well fully extended. Then, you turn your body from front to back, first to your left, then to your right - going from looking ahead to looking 180º behind -

Something like that is in the video. It is one I can do. There's one that has one's hands extended and then one inhales and bends one's knees. On the exhale, you are supposed to stand up. That and the lotus position are my major challenges. I've done it three times so far.



But then, it could just as well as be said that I am a lazy person, and I do all of smattering of disciplines that I do because they are the way of least effort - being sick is so much bother - so I stay healthy. And then to stay healthy, I do the least amount of effort, which involves staying healthy using the best possible methods. It's funny, but it's true.

That's why laziness is considered a virtue by those who are most wise, and business is consider a vice - busyness is good for someone if they know what they are doing, but since most people do not know what they're doing - laziness would be better, so they would not be making messes in the world.

Even for someone who knows what they are doing - laziness is generally better, because laziness occurs when there is nothing left to do - when everything runs naturally, by itself and supervision.

This is the great truth at the heart of several religious, or wisdom traditions, although it is seldom said so bluntly.

And also, anytime you have the working out mentality - which I do, sometimes, because I am lazy. . . I mean, I am too lazy to do it the right way: in the whole of the earth, you will find nothing which "works out" - no animal which engages in an activity solely to strengthen muscles, to somehow make oneself more than one is. . .

All of the good results of things in nature are the results of actions that come naturally to that critter - Apes are so strong, because they climb trees and eat bananas; or alternatively, and equally true, they are so strong because their DNA tells them to be that strong.


Oh, and this Kundalini exercise is also exactly like one of the Tai Chi warming up exercises, although the later involves one standing akimbo, and doing the same motion to 180º left and right, but with a very, very slow movement, and also with a very slow inhalation and exhalation (exhalation when one is turning towards looking back, and inhaling when one is turning towards the front).

In the video she has us picking up speed, but I can see the benefit of doing it slowly as well. Good point that we are the only animals who "work out". I probably also practice laziness more than I care to admit.

[NikolaiI]

Something like that is in the video. It is one I can do. There's one that has one's hands extended and then one inhales and bends one's knees. On the exhale, you are supposed to stand up. That and the lotus position are my major challenges. I've done it three times so far.

In the Tai Chi warm-up exercises, all of them are like that too, and the instruction I remember is, "as slowly as you can do it, yet still be moving - with one long breath through the whole motion." - this interesting formula, for moving meditation with a long slow breath - seems to be one of the simplest and most effective self-healing exercises. . but it also seems to take more concentration, for me at least, than even sitting breath meditation.

Breath exercises are also interesting, Aikido has some good ones.


I even found an app that when I point the phone
into the sky it will give me the name of the stars I would
see there if it wasn't cloudy and the streetlights weren't
so bright. If I point it at my feet it would show me the
stars down there if the earth vanished. There's an app to
let me know where my wife and kids have been throughout
the day.

That would be cool. It might be interesting to do something like that in conjunction with a sensory deprivation tank of some kind. .

[YesNo]

In the Tai Chi warm-up exercises, all of them are like that too, and the instruction I remember is, "as slowly as you can do it, yet still be moving - with one long breath through the whole motion." - this interesting formula, for moving meditation with a long slow breath - seems to be one of the simplest and most effective self-healing exercises. . but it also seems to take more concentration, for me at least, than even sitting breath meditation.

Some of these exercises could be modified to run in slow motion.

I'm following this video daily until I get a better feel for the motions. Although I don't think my butt was made for the lotus position, I suppose it will get used to it. I keep falling over and so use a pillow in the back.

[Calidore]

I've recently read in two reputable places that chocolate milk is actually a terrific post-workout recovery drink, because it has pretty much the ideal protein/carbs ratio. I'm finding this a remarkably easy change to adopt.

[YesNo]

I wonder if chocolate ice cream would work as well. Probably not.

I started a Bikram hot yoga class this week. It is the first formal yoga class I've had. It does seem to help me breathe better.

[Calidore]

At Costco today, I walked right by a 4-pound jar of Jelly Bellies on sale without even hesitating. Willpower!

[NikolaiI]

Congrats, Calidore!! Wonderful feeling, isn't it? :)

One thing I learned, or became familiar with at least, a little while back is a study about which foods we enjoy. . . what the research found was that to a large extent, the foods that we love are because of the feelings that we had when we first had them. . I found this very interesting and useful - seems like knowing this would help to re-define what foods we love to eat..

[prendrelemick]

I have decided to lose a bit of weight this year. The diet I have chosen is to eat a little less.

[YesNo]

I think my weight has stabilized to around 175 pounds which was my goal and now I wonder what caused it to drop those ten pounds. Initially I did listen to a free hypnosis app I downloaded to the phone by Elizabeth Hartford, "Lose Weight Now Hypnosis". However, I listened to this only once while lying in bed and fell asleep before I finished it. I usually think causes require more discipline and repetition than that.

Later when my weight started dropping, I tried Kundalini yoga and most recently Bikram yoga. There is a lot of sweating in Bikram yoga, but my weight was already about 178 when I started that. Whatever benefit yoga offers, unless causation goes backward in time, that may not be the explanation.

Karen Kingston suggested something interesting in "Clear Your Clutter with Feng Shui" that I read last night. She wrote (page 24): "A curious fact I have noticed over the years is that people who have lots of clutter in their homes are often overweight."

The reason I started reading Kingston's book was that I have also been in a cleaning mood at home. I don't know why, but it feels good, almost as good as losing ten pounds. The main room I use has lost a lot of clutter. She also takes clutter beyond the stuff we hang onto around us. Clutter is in our bodies, our minds and our emotions as well.

The clutter and weight are disappearing, but the mysteries remain.

[Calidore]

Here is today's (typical) thank-you from my elderly next door neighbor for shoveling her snow. This is why I have to keep working out.

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9523&d=1427162462

[YesNo]

One of the good things about getting those pecan treats is that one almost has to eat them since they were a gift. One would not want to offend the elderly neighbor.

I think my weight has stabilized so that 175 pounds is the top level. I've seen it as low as 170 pounds which I would not have believed possible five months ago. Also I finished cleaning out the junk in the basement. For those unaware of this feng shui position, I consider clutter in the house to be symptomatic of the weight problem of the inhabitants.

[Calidore]

One of the good things about getting those pecan treats is that one almost has to eat them since they were a gift. One would not want to offend the elderly neighbor.

I think my weight has stabilized so that 175 pounds is the top level. I've seen it as low as 170 pounds which I would not have believed possible five months ago. Also I finished cleaning out the junk in the basement. For those unaware of this feng shui position, I consider clutter in the house to be symptomatic of the weight problem of the inhabitants.

My extremely thin mother with the extremely cluttered basement (which I am currently helping move nearly everything around in to prepare for waterproofing) would beg to differ.

Yes, I do feel obligated to eat the chocolates (and cookies, her most common thank-you gift), so I just try to be responsible about it--two a day works.

[YesNo]

You're right. There are plenty of counterexamples. One of my relatives is so neat and clean we like to label her as having some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder. She could test the upward limits of a scale.

[YesNo]

Another thing I am looking at as part of a diet is pH balance. I understand this should be about 7.4. There are paper strips one can use to test saliva and urine for pH. Sort of like a scale for weight.

I re-listened to the hypnotism session and heard it all the way through this time telling myself I want to be 170 pounds. Being somewhere between 170 and 175 already, if I do get to a more or less steady 170 pounds, I don't know if I could credit hypnosis with it.

[Sancho]

I've got a coworker who beat cancer and swears that maintaining his body's natural PH through the food he eats was instrumental. He told me his diet before his diagnosis was way too acidic and may have opened the door to cancer, something about his body always fighting to bring the PH back up to 7.4 and thereby taxing the immune system.

Sounded plausible to me. Anyway he only drinks Evian water now. Most bottled water is a little acidic and hence quenches the thirst better but Evian is at 7.4 PH (I think) and prints it right there on the nutrition label.

There might be something to it. Donno. I'm a tap-water guy.

Oh yeah, it was some sort of stomach cancer.

[Iain Sparrow]

I've got a coworker who beat cancer and swears that maintaining his body's natural PH through the food he eats was instrumental. He told me his diet before his diagnosis was way too acidic and may have opened the door to cancer, something about his body always fighting to bring the PH back up to 7.4 and thereby taxing the immune system.

Sounded plausible to me. Anyway he only drinks Evian water now. Most bottled water is a little acidic and hence quenches the thirst better but Evian is at 7.4 PH (I think) and prints it right there on the nutrition label.

There might be something to it. Donno. I'm a tap-water guy.

Oh yeah, it was some sort of stomach cancer.


If you're eating healthy foods; fresh fruits and vegetables, more soy protein and less red meat protein, less dairy products, stay away from caffeine, less processed sugar, eat certain types of seafood, drink fresh water (not tap water!), and exercise daily... you will automatically keep a proper PH balance.

[Clopin]

I drink four to eight litres of water a day, I would go bankrupt drinking bottled water I had to pay for!

[Sancho]

If you're eating healthy foods; fresh fruits and vegetables, more soy protein and less red meat protein, less dairy products, stay away from caffeine, less processed sugar, eat certain types of seafood, drink fresh water (not tap water!), and exercise daily... you will automatically keep a proper PH balance.

General Jack D. Ripper (from Dr Strangelove) certainly agrees with your assessment of tap water, Iain.


Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.
...
God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids.

I agree with everything you said, Iain, but I am badly hooked on caffeine. As for red meat, it's not a player for me. About 17 years ago I contracted an autoimmune disease from a tick bite that precludes me from ever eating mammalian meat again ( if it's been hatched it's okay). No big whoop, I never liked eating animal carcasses anyway.

[Pompey Bum]

And then he hung up.

[Iain Sparrow]

I drink four to eight litres of water a day, I would go bankrupt drinking bottled water I had to pay for!

There is absolutely no need to drink that much water in a day... unless you're walking across a desert.:)
Three liters of water, plus I mix fruit/veggie juice in with my water, a glass of milk a day is plenty. Where I live, one gallon of spring water is a $1. Seems a reasonable price to avoid tap water?

[Sancho]

We're still trying to figure out the meaning of that last phrase, sir.

[Iain Sparrow]

Which phrase might that be?

[Sancho]

Sorry Iain, me n Pompey were doing movie quotes. That was General Buck Turgidson 'splaining to President Merkin Muffley what General Jack D. Ripper had in mind with his precious-bodily-fluids comment.

[Iain Sparrow]

ah, I get it.:)

[YesNo]

I've got a coworker who beat cancer and swears that maintaining his body's natural PH through the food he eats was instrumental. He told me his diet before his diagnosis was way too acidic and may have opened the door to cancer, something about his body always fighting to bring the PH back up to 7.4 and thereby taxing the immune system.

That's what I've been reading also. Here's a guy who increases the alkalinity of water using baking soda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grtrm8tk4d4 I tried it and perhaps I put too much molasses in it, but the taste is a bit strange.



Sounded plausible to me. Anyway he only drinks Evian water now. Most bottled water is a little acidic and hence quenches the thirst better but Evian is at 7.4 PH (I think) and prints it right there on the nutrition label.

I didn't know they put that on labels of bottled water. Some sources I've seen recently don't recommend bottled water if the tap water is the right pH.



There might be something to it. Donno. I'm a tap-water guy.

Oh yeah, it was some sort of stomach cancer.

We tested our tap water with the paper strips and it had a pH of about 7, so I figure it is OK. Of course, if I wanted to be ultra sure, I'd run it through an osmosis machine and/or ionizer to increase the alkalinity, but that might cost a few thousand dollars to set up.

[Sancho]

Most bottled water doesn't advertise their PH. There's no FDA requirement to, as far as I know, but some of the European brands do. Ever since I heard my friend's cancer-survival story (and theory), I've been checking. I also seem to remember him telling me that the human body will strive to adjust itself to the PH of the ocean. And it might be my imagination but swimming in the ocean feels good, somehow regenerative. Especially if I happen to be swimming at a southern beach with lotsa scantily-clad women, sporting large, valupous, natural life preservers.

Not sure about Lake Michigan

[Calidore]

Most bottled water doesn't advertise their PH. There's no FDA requirement to, as far as I know, but some of the European brands do. Ever since I heard my friend's cancer-survival story (and theory), I've been checking. I also seem to remember him telling me that the human body will strive to adjust itself to the PH of the ocean. And it might be my imagination but swimming in the ocean feels good, somehow regenerative. Especially if I happen to be swimming at a southern beach with lotsa scantily-clad women, sporting large, valupous, natural life preservers.

Not sure about Lake Michigan

Lake Michigan has the same, um, scenery, plus no sharks.