friendship of the sexes

[cacian]

Is there such a thing as a true friends men to women without the added sexual connotations?
In other words can a woman/man be friends with each other without feeling there is more to it then that?

[caddy_caddy]

oh, Men are the best friends to women .Women gossip too much and keep a secret just untill reaching the first neighbor's door:cornut:

[cacian]

Haha and then what happens when she reaches the first neighbor's door caddy?

[caddy_caddy]

Oh!The whole village will know about your secret in the following day. I never dare to tell a woman anything whenever I need to speak to someone. I prefer to speak to myself aloud then do it. Forgive me ladies , but that is based on my personal experience.

[cacian]

Oh!The whole village will know about your secret in the following day. I've never dare to tell a woman anything whenever I need to speak to someone. I prefer to speak to myself aloud then do it. Forgive me ladies , but that is based on my personal experience.

So according to you women are loud and men are secretive?

[caddy_caddy]

Yeh , and I think a man feels proud if a woman trusts him and tells him her secrets ; that's maybe why he tries to be trustworthy.

[OrphanPip]

Yes men and women can be friends.

[Delta40]

Until technology enables us to download the thoughts of men and women through an app on our phones, of course we can be friends!

[Calidore]

My best friend of more than 25 years is a woman, and we've never fooled around.

[SleepyWitch]

Yes.
10chars :)

On a more serious note, is this a philosophical question or are you asking for advice?

[cacian]

Yes.
10chars :)

On a more serious note, is this a philosophical question or are you asking for advice?

Hi SleepyWitch. Firstly can I ask what is 10chars?
And this is a philosophical question. I hear somewhere else women and men cannot be friends truly and so I needed to check.
I personally had many men friends without any problems but it can be tricky for others I hear.

[cacian]

My best friend of more than 25 years is a woman, and we've never fooled around.

That is impressive.

[Pierre Menard]

Some of my greatest ever friendships have been with the opposite sex.

It's entirely possible to value the bond you have as friends over wanting to get laid.

[cacian]

Some of my greatest ever friendships have been with the opposite sex.

It's entirely possible to value the bond you have as friends over wanting to get laid.

I entirely agree with you. I think the more friendship between the sexes the more value we put to sex.

[SleepyWitch]

Hi SleepyWitch. Firstly can I ask what is 10chars?
And this is a philosophical question. I hear somewhere else women and men cannot be friends truly and so I needed to check.
I personally had many men friends without any problems but it can be tricky for others I hear.

10chars is when your original message is too short and the forums says you have to have at least 10 characters and you type "10 chars" to meet that requirement. (I only wrote "Yes." first, which was too short. But then I decided to add more anyway but left the "10chars" there.)

Anyway, it depends on the individuals. I read in a book about mixed-sex friendships that it works for those people who think it can work and it doesn't work for those who think it can't.

The thing is that you need very firm boundaries (both for the other person and your own behaviour) and that's not easy for everyone because they might not know what they are looking for (friend or romantic partner) or they want to be "nice" and are afraid of having firm boundaries because they don't want to be cruel.

It also depends on how you handle sexual tension. E.g. two of my guy friends might initially have had a crush on me, but they didn't tell me or "pester" me in any way. (One of them is married and the other got a girlfriend a little while after he got to know me and is married ot her now). So I just pretended I didn't notice and gave them time to get over it. After all, it's only natural (not because I'm amazingly attractive, but I mean there's nothing wrong with crushes). They did get over it.
One of them doesn't keep in touch with me anymore because he's lazy, so I can't be bothered with him. But the other is one of my closest friends and I think our friendship is all the deeper because I tolerated his initial confusion and decided to work on our friendship anyway and because he didn't make a fuss like some guys will.

But I've also had a guy friend who claimed he wants to have female friends but then he was always trying to hug me when I didn't want to hug him and he turned out to be a crazy stalker, so I got rid of him.

I've also got a male acquaintance (not really a friend) and there is a lot of sexual tension between us (we're both married), but that just developed over time because we clicked on an intellectual level and neither of us says anything flirty to the other. Would I meet up with him on my own in a dark corner at midnight? No. But why would we? But should I stop talking to him and be cold and distant when he hasn't wronged me in any way? No.
Adults can be aware of these things and deal with them without even discussing it with each other. The more you expose yourself to mixed-sex situations, the better you can handle them.
So, I'm not saying that there will never be sexual tensions, but it all depends on how you deal with it.

But then, I've had guy friends since I was in primary school and I was brought up that way. Many people get brought up to socialize only with the same sex and to only see the other sex as potential romantic partners. Such people will not be able to handle same-sex friendships and it's easy to see why.

[JBI]

Most of my friends are female, and I can control myself. If I wanted to have sex with all my friends, then I would be dead. Seriously, people need to realize that not every person wants to have sex with you, and also they should realize they do not need to have sex with everyone they meet.

[Buh4Bee]

I also think this gets easier as you get older. I have several couple friends and I am very friendly with the husbands and there is no interest in sex. We relate to each other as mature adults. Also as I get older, men are not interested in that kind of thing from me any more.

[Alexander III]

I have quite a few female friends. Given the opportunity I would have sex with all of them. No exceptions.

[E.A Rumfield]

Some of my greatest ever friendships have been with the opposite sex.

It's entirely possible to value the bond you have as friends over wanting to get laid.

I disagree, if you respect the girl enough to be friends with her why wouldn't you want to get intimate? She's attractive and can hold a conversation and you just want to council her on her relationship trouble? Not in my world. That being said I have had friendships with women but that was only because they didn't want to bang and it only leads to frustration. I'm a bit of a loner so take what I say with a grain of salt. I have passing friendships with a lot of girls but if I really like her I don't want to sit around and watch her get groped by some bro, that's like getting kicked in the balls for no reason. If you think a man and a women that find each other attractive and enjoyable to be around can be just friends you're fooling yourself. Maybe that's just me, but it's not only about banging I get really sentimental about women.


I also think this gets easier as you get older. I have several couple friends and I am very friendly with the husbands and there is no interest in sex. We relate to each other as mature adults. Also as I get older, men are not interested in that kind of thing from me any more.

Those are not friends though, you wouldn't call those men up to go have lunch would you? You might be friendly but it is far from friendship.


I have quite a few female friends. Given the opportunity I would have sex with all of them. No exceptions.

Exactly! Any time a girl has male friends it's most likely because he hits on her and she politely and gracefully turns him down. I think girls like to know that they can get it whenever they want. It's an ego thing. They like to keep some schmuck hanging around.

delete

[SleepyWitch]

I disagree, if you respect the girl enough to be friends with her why wouldn't you want to get intimate? She's attractive and can hold a conversation and you just want to council her on her relationship trouble? .

Who says that that's all girls ever talk about? Here's some topics that my best guy friend and me talk about:
* current events (what's going on in England vs Germany)
* work
* different school systems (England vs Germany)
* what we've been up to in our free time
* my pupils, his children
* getting through life as introverted 'loners'
* customs, holidays and traditions
* the weather

We never talk about realtionship advice.

[E.A Rumfield]

Who says that that's all girls ever talk about? Here's some topics that my best guy friend and me talk about:
* current events (what's going on in England vs Germany)
* work
* different school systems (England vs Germany)
* what we've been up to in our free time
* my pupils, his children
* getting though life as introverted 'loners'
* customs, holidays and traditions
* the weather

We never talk about realtionship advice.

Few questions.
Do you think he is attractive?
Do you think he thinks you are attractive?
If neither of you were married do you think you might start a relationship?
I mean you already have half the problem solved. It's hard enough to find a decent guy or girl to waste it on friendship. Friendship is just the next best thing. Sometimes you just want to see the persons face so badly that you are willing to suffer through the torture of a platonic friendship.

[Delta40]

I think thought and action are two different things. My daughters tell me that we live in a different world now and platonic relationships exist between the younger generations but I think 'yeah right' It's the social constraints that keep my girls from getting clubbed and dragged off to a cave...

[SleepyWitch]

My answers are in bold.

Few questions.
Do you think he is attractive? Objectively speaking, I guess you could describe him as good-looking. Subjectively speaking, I don't fancy him. I'm not prudish about these things, I know when I fancy someone
Do you think he thinks you are attractive? He might have initially, but he's not very good with feelings and gets overwhelmed and confused easily, so he might just have got things mixed up
If neither of you were married do you think you might start a relationship? That's too hypothetical to answer. Again, objectively speaking, he's good husband material, personally I would find it weird.
I mean you already have half the problem solved. It's hard enough to find a decent guy or girl to waste it on friendship. Friendship is just the next best thing. I know a few decent guys and I was never that interested in romance anyway, so I can't comment, really
Sometimes you just want to see the persons face so badly that you are willing to suffer through the torture of a platonic friendship. If it's like that for him, that's his problem. He's grown up and I don't force him to be friends with me. If he wasn't happy with being friends, he'd have to tell me. I can't make his decisions for him.

[E.A Rumfield]

I think thought and action are two different things. My daughters tell me that we live in a different world now and platonic relationships exist between the younger generations but I think 'yeah right' It's the social constraints that keep my girls from getting clubbed and dragged off to a cave...

It was always like that society is the club and marriage is the cave. Today girls are just beaten over the heads with the car the man drives and the shoes he wears etc. I don't know how it was back in caveman times but today chicks even hit guys over the head and drag them off to caves. It's true.

[qimissung]

"I mean you already have half the problem solved. It's hard enough to find a decent guy or girl to waste it on friendship. Friendship is just the next best thing"

Maybe it's a guy thing, that sex is the only thing. I don't think I'd want to have sex with someone I didn't also trust as a friend. I think the word we are dancing around at this point is intimacy, which I would like.

But I certainly could be friends with a guy, regardless.

[miyako73]

For real, Cacian has all the questions we know should be asked and answered but we don't think about. What do you call that? Mundane profundity, maybe?

Well, this question is confusing to me. I'll just say: I like having my shadow for a friend lately.

[SleepyWitch]

It was always like that society is the club and marriage is the cave. Today girls are just beaten over the heads with the car the man drives and the shoes he wears etc. I don't know how it was back in caveman times but today chicks even hit guys over the head and drag them off to caves. It's true.

Ah, another acolyte of the goold old "Nice Guy vs PUA" meme.
Well, as I said (on page 1), it's up to the individuals. Some girls actually are like that, some aren't.

[E.A Rumfield]

"I mean you already have half the problem solved. It's hard enough to find a decent guy or girl to waste it on friendship. Friendship is just the next best thing"

Maybe it's a guy thing, that sex is the only thing. I don't think I'd want to have sex with someone I didn't also trust as a friend. I think the word we are dancing around at this point is intimacy, which I would like.

But I certainly could be friends with a guy, regardless.

Whether it is a guy thing or a girl thing or a little bit of both as I like to think it matters not the point is it doesn't work. Any girl that thinks a guy is just her good friend is delusional. And don't make it like oh guys are pigs all they think about is sex because women are the same way. Yes sexual women are the same as sexual men. I also never said sex is the only thing I said it is half the thing. I'd argue that girls can't be friends with guy either, you may want to but it doesn't work. Men act differently around women. It's like when scientists go to Africa to observe wild lions, their presence changes the behavior of the lions. If you weren't around we'd probably be talking about some missed up stuff at least half the time. And vice versa, I know how you ladies talk, you're just as bad as us. Tell me when you meet a new guy you and your girlfriends don't talk how he was in bed how big he was what techniques he used. Tell me when your with your girlfriends that you don't look at men and objectify men. Come on. Just admit that their is an inherent difference. That you act differently around your girlfriends than your guy friends. Maybe girls and guys can be friends but it is a much different friendship. It is a fragile and unstable friendship and at times you can't say what you naturally would like to say.


Ah, another acolyte of the goold old "Nice Guy vs PUA" meme.
Well, as I said (on page 1), it's up to the individuals. Some girls actually are like that, some aren't.

I have no time for high school morals, both are just roles and if you choose to play one you're faking it. I'm just me.

[Delta40]

Have you considered that you're talking about a specific age group of women here? For older women that isn't the case beause people and relationships evolve. As people get older, companionship becomes really important, people often slow down so the size of a guys dick doesn't really come up (pardon the pun). spending time together is just damn nice and if it becomes something else, well and good and if it doesn't, there's a rock solid friendship in place.

[islandclimber]

Whether it is a guy thing or a girl thing or a little bit of both as I like to think it matters not the point is it doesn't work. Any girl that thinks a guy is just her good friend is delusional. And don't make it like oh guys are pigs all they think about is sex because women are the same way. Yes sexual women are the same as sexual men. I also never said sex is the only thing I said it is half the thing. I'd argue that girls can't be friends with guy either, you may want to but it doesn't work. Men act differently around women. It's like when scientists go to Africa to observe wild lions, their presence changes the behavior of the lions. If you weren't around we'd probably be talking about some missed up stuff at least half the time. And vice versa, I know how you ladies talk, you're just as bad as us. Tell me when you meet a new guy you and your girlfriends don't talk how he was in bed how big he was what techniques he used. Tell me when your with your girlfriends that you don't look at men and objectify men. Come on. Just admit that their is an inherent difference. That you act differently around your girlfriends than your guy friends. Maybe girls and guys can be friends but it is a much different friendship. It is a fragile and unstable friendship and at times you can't say what you naturally would like to say.

You are presenting your opinion as though it is objective and a universal truth. Who are you to determine whether men and women can be friends? Most of my close friends are of the opposite sex. Many of them are attractive and enjoyable to be around. However, I have absolutely no desire to sleep with the majority of them. Just because someone is attractive and enjoyable company (ie. a close friend) does not mean I want to possess them sexually or emotionally, or whatever it is you are suggesting. This is not something you get to decide for me, with your skewed perspective on male/female relationships and intimacy.

And I do not feel any need to hold back thoughts in conversation with female friends, or at least not any more so than with male friends. To be perfectly honest, I feel I can be most open with a few of my female friends.

[E.A Rumfield]

Have you considered that you're talking about a specific age group of women here? For older women that isn't the case beause people and relationships evolve. As people get older, companionship becomes really important, people often slow down so the size of a guys dick doesn't really come up (pardon the pun). spending time together is just damn nice and if it becomes something else, well and good and if it doesn't, there's a rock solid friendship in place.

What is the age group 16-40? I knew some women in their late 30's early 40's that were just as crazy as their 20 year old counter parts. I used to work with this woman when I was younger and she used to give me all kinds of great advice, she was 22 years older than me and I still would have slept with her. I know men that are more dogged than I and are in their 60's. **** what's wrong with sex. I sure hope life doesn't end when you're 40. I hope things still feel knew and exciting.


You are presenting your opinion as though it is objective and a universal truth. Who are you to determine whether men and women can be friends? Most of my close friends are of the opposite sex. Many of them are attractive and enjoyable to be around. However, I have absolutely no desire to sleep with the majority of them. Just because someone is attractive and enjoyable company (ie. a close friend) does not mean I want to possess them sexually or emotionally, or whatever it is you are suggesting. This is not something you get to decide for me, with your skewed perspective on male/female relationships and intimacy.

And I do not feel any need to hold back thoughts in conversation with female friends, or at least not any more so than with male friends. To be perfectly honest, I feel I can be most open with a few of my female friends.

That's fine, you can't deny human nature though. This skewed perspective is deeply ingrained in our minds. It is good that you feel that you can be honest and open with your female friends I knew plenty of women that I respected and admired and I felt comfortable around, but what I am saying is that I would have slept with each one of them.

Besides my opinion is the universal truth it is MY universal truth. That is why it is my opinion. To keep saying in my opinion in my opinion is a redundancy.

[islandclimber]

That's fine, you can't deny human nature though. This skewed perspective is deeply ingrained in our minds. It is good that you feel that you can be honest and open with your female friends I knew plenty of women that I respected and admired and I felt comfortable around, but what I am saying is that I would have slept with each one of them.

Besides my opinion is the universal truth it is MY universal truth. That is why it is my opinion. To keep saying in my opinion in my opinion is a redundancy.

Sure, your opinion is your universal truth. That would be obvious, but dogmatically pressing it upon the rest of the world is rather absurd. I guess life is quite absurd though.

I'm 28. I would not have, and still will not sleep with most of the females I am close with. I've never had any desire to do so. Maybe my libido isn't strong enough... Maybe I'm just not hypersexual. I don't know. From my own personal experience, I find platonic friendship quite easy with the opposite sex. Not all of us want to sleep with every person we find attractive. I find certain members of the same sex attractive also, yet I don't want to sleep with them.

[E.A Rumfield]

Sure, your opinion is your universal truth. That would be obvious, but dogmatically pressing it upon the rest of the world is rather absurd. I guess life is quite absurd though.

I'm 28. I would not have, and still will not sleep with most of the females I am close with. I've never had any desire to do so. Maybe my libido isn't strong enough... Maybe I'm just not hypersexual. I don't know. From my own personal experience, I find platonic friendship quite easy with the opposite sex. Not all of us want to sleep with every person we find attractive. I find certain members of the same sex attractive also, yet I don't want to sleep with them.

Sex just intensifies everything, all the good and bad, I would rather have one sexual relationship than 5 friendships because in those 5 friendships each girl is giving you 1/5 of her soul but in that one relationship you are getting everything that that person has to offer for a time. I guess it is selfish but life is short. I also like all the things that come with sex, the attachment, waking up together, remembering the past together, not seeing her for a time than finding a hair pin or a sock or something stupid like that. Like I said I guess I'm selfish.

[islandclimber]

Sex just intensifies everything, all the good and bad, I would rather have one sexual relationship than 5 friendships because in those 5 friendships each girl is giving you 1/5 of her soul but in that one relationship you are getting everything that that person has to offer for a time. I guess it is selfish but life is short. I also like all the things that come with sex, the attachment, waking up together, remembering the past together, not seeing her for a time than finding a hair pin or a sock or something stupid like that. Like I said I guess I'm selfish.

There is nothing wrong with this at all. It's only this taking of your own personal experience and preference and extrapolating that everyone must be this way... That's a little silly.

[E.A Rumfield]

There is nothing wrong with this at all. It's only this taking of your own personal experience and preference and extrapolating that everyone must be this way... That's a little silly.

Maybe I don't understand the concept of a debate.

[Delta40]

Lol. Life is short. At some stage we realise its okay to take the scenic route...

[qimissung]

Yeah, you get all her soul-for one night. Then the next night it's onto another body, and soul. You can't sleep with every single person you meet-that seems like the very definition of sexual addiction. At that point it's not even about desire, it's about a deep, deep unquenchable need in their own soul that the person is unable to quench or assuage.

But even if you want to sleep with every person you meet, you won't, so do you think this desire prevents you from being a good friend?

[E.A Rumfield]

Yeah, you get all her soul-for one night. Then the next night it's onto another body, and soul. You can't sleep with every single person you meet-that seems like the very definition of sexual addiction. At that point it's not even about desire, it's about a deep, deep unquenchable need in their own soul that the person is unable to quench or assuage.

That's not what I meant at all. I've learned that sex without any care or emotion is meaningless and empty.

[miyako73]

C'mon, let's accept it. A friendship between a hot man and a woman or a hot woman and a man screams sex even if just fantasied. Of course, I have male friends I'm not sexual with. They help me fix my car or do my clogged plumbing (no sexual pun intended). They are not hot even in the dark.

[qimissung]

So you can only be friends with people you consider unattractive? Hmmm, no thanks.

[miyako73]

So you can only be friends with people you consider unattractive? Hmmm, no thanks.

It's not intentional; it just happens that way. The good thing is that my friendship with unattractive men lasts longer.

[qimissung]

lol. I wonder what that means. Maybe good looking guys are as shallow as we always seem to think beautiful women are?

[E.A Rumfield]

C'mon, let's accept it. A friendship between a hot man and a woman or a hot woman and a man screams sex even if just fantasied. Of course, I have male friends I'm not sexual with. They help me fix my car or do my clogged plumbing (no sexual pun intended). They are not hot even in the dark.

See it's not the same kind of friendship, you're just leading these men on by letting them help you. I keep friendly relationships with women I am not attracted too because girls have friends. I wonder why people need so many friends. If you have a lot of friends chances are most of your friends secretly dislike you.

[miyako73]

I assume they don't like me sexually too just my honesty or my sweet smile. They ask me for favors too.

[qimissung]

See it's not the same kind of friendship, you're just leading these men on by letting them help you. I keep friendly relationships with women I am not attracted too because girls have friends. I wonder why people need so many friends. If you have a lot of friends chances are most of your friends secretly dislike you.

E.A., I don't think you are "in your mind" as your location states-I think you are out of your mind. :lol::lol::lol:

[islandclimber]

E.A., I don't think you are "in your mind" as your location states-I think you are out of your mind. :lol::lol::lol:

^This! :lol:

[SleepyWitch]

Tell me when you meet a new guy you and your girlfriends don't talk how he was in bed how big he was what techniques he used.

That's gross, I've never done that and none of my girl friends do that..... Oh hang on... yes we did occasionally when we were in high school. But I suppose that is because high school kids aren't sure how these things work and they want some feedback from their friends. I have no doubt that many girls and guys still do this when they're grown up, but I think this kind of over-sharing is partly an American phenomenon. Over here, when people grow up, they learn the meaning of the word "private".

[Pierre Menard]

I disagree, if you respect the girl enough to be friends with her why wouldn't you want to get intimate? She's attractive and can hold a conversation and you just want to council her on her relationship trouble? Not in my world. That being said I have had friendships with women but that was only because they didn't want to bang and it only leads to frustration. I'm a bit of a loner so take what I say with a grain of salt. I have passing friendships with a lot of girls but if I really like her I don't want to sit around and watch her get groped by some bro, that's like getting kicked in the balls for no reason. If you think a man and a women that find each other attractive and enjoyable to be around can be just friends you're fooling yourself. Maybe that's just me, but it's not only about banging I get really sentimental about women.


It's really very simple.

- I'm not an idiot. Sex can change friendships and can change them for the worst (not necessarily always, of course), so there are friendships I have with certain girls who I love dearly and would rather not risk the friendships I have with/change the dynamic. Now you might ask "why not just be in a relationship then?"; well, I don't have feelings for every friend I have. There is a difference between romantic love and platonic love. Romantic love is not something I feel often, despite the many female friends I've had and been attracted too. For whatever reason, only a very few in my life have moved me romantically.

- I'm not really into casual sex. Not against entirely, just not something I'm keen on or ever feel the need to seek out. So when hanging out with a female friend, I'm really not trying to get my socks off. If you're main concern when it comes to females is getting laid, then I can see how it'd be hard to maintain close friendships. If you're just treating them like most other friends, it's really pretty simple.

- I pretty much answered all your questions in my first line: There are some friendships that are more important to me than simply getting laid.

[Buh4Bee]

EA- You're a hound.

[OrphanPip]

The real important question is whether men can have women as friends without catching their cooties.

[Delta40]

The real important question is whether men can have women as friends without catching their cooties.

Lol. Yuckie girl germs. You're not biased at all are you?

[qimissung]

The real important question is whether men can have women as friends without catching their cooties.

:lol: Or vice versa.

[cacian]

The real important question is whether men can have women as friends without catching their cooties.

Humm the bonus question would be this:
Do men learn from women and vice versa? I personally think they do and when they do they are I guess at as same intellectual level personally and mentally.