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Jassy Melson
12-31-2012, 07:55 PM
When the Marquess of Queensbury left the infamous calling card for Oscar Wilde, at the theater where Wilde's play The Importance of Being Earnest was preparing for its premiere, accusing Wilde of being a homosexual, Wilde made the fatal mistake of taking the Marquess to court and accusing him of libel. The result is well-known.

What Wilde should have done is the same thing that the Marquess' son (and Wilde's lover) Lord Alfred Douglas did: ignore the calling card and go to France for awhile.

But Wilde's pride would not allow him to do such a thing, so he stayed in London, and the rest is history.

Oscar Wilde's fatal flaw was pride. He felt that his ignoring the Marquess' card would be viewed as cowardice on his part. He firmly believed that he could take on the Marquess of Queensbury—a member of the nobility—in a court case and win and be vindicated.

Throughout his life, Oscar Wilde had lived in a world of fantasy. But when it came to the real world, he was left a pathetic loser.

LitNetIsGreat
12-31-2012, 11:00 PM
Hmm, that's quite harsh and a little inaccurate. Wilde was pressured into proceeding with the court case by Douglas! Douglas was convinced that this was his one chance of actually nailing his troublesome father. In no way did Douglas ignore the card based upon everything I have read. Douglas was only concerned with himself and didn't think for one second that they could lose and it would be Wilde that would pay the price. Maybe that is slightly harsh to Douglas but it is hardly far away from the truth either. Wilde at the time of the famous calling card was a bit like a deer caught in the headlights. To accuse Wilde of firm belief in victory is not quite correct according to his biographers and his own correspondence. It was Douglas who pressed Wilde and took advantage of this situation.

Wilde was also not so much in a world of fantasy that people believed and that he lead people to believe. Yes he would preach of fantasy and you would be forgiven to believe that reality was nothing but disdain to him, but again most of this was clever show on his behalf and that he was deeply concerned by social opinion and financial matters. There are hundreds of pages of his letters which show this, some letters of him praising newspaper columnists, some writing to leading politicians looking for a way in, some to poets and writers in praise and dedicating his 'unworthy poetry' to them in return for the chance for a favourable review or positive comment. Such reality is a little away from the decadent Wilde who only lived in the realm of art! His final letters also show him in a sorry state only interested in borrowing 10 or 20 pounds form such and such, who promised that they would lend it him to get by on etc, etc. This is not the Wilde of popular image.

The 'flaw' of pride is interesting though as many friends of Wilde tried to get him to flee England when it was clear that he was going to be arrested. This is the famous image of Wilde sipping champagne and wine (hock and seltzer) and waiting for his arrest (on one of the few occasions that Wilde was really 'drunk' as he could drink anyone under the table). The popular image is that Wilde refused to leave and that may be so, but there is also another theory which stated that he couldn't leave the hotel because he couldn't afford to pay the bill and was sort of held captive. Ironically and cruelly, this is because Douglas had racked up such a bill on Wilde's account, mostly on expensive champagne. I'm not sure which of these stories is actually true, maybe none of them or a bit of both, but either way Wilde was unfortunately doomed.

Jassy Melson
01-03-2013, 09:23 AM
Thank you for setting me straight on some facts about O. W. Anyway you look at it, Wilde is one of the most interesting figures in the history of world literature.

LitNetIsGreat
01-05-2013, 06:45 PM
Oh yes I am fascinated by Wilde, you are correct, what an interesting figure.

I'm not putting you straight, just giving the best guess from what I've read of the situation - for nobody knows these things for absolutely certainly. There are many inconsistencies when it comes to such details - Frank Miles is the worst offender, by all accounts absolutely unreadable due to the inconsistencies of his first hand account of Wilde.

There is a sort of tragic romanticism about Wilde's arrest. The way he sat back drinking wine in style waiting for it (even if he might not have had much of a choice about it). Have you come across the John Betjeman poem on the matter?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH0uPXxA8dg

Good fun.

Very sad though of course, genuinely I can hardly read his final letters, but what a way to await your arrest!

---

His two years hard labour was a virtual death sentence. The warden said that Wilde would not survive for much more than two years after his release in May '97 because the conditions in prison were absolutely horrendous at that time (Wilde had almost permanent diarrhoea due to the food and sanitary conditions and the extreme hardship was simply backbreaking) - 'gentlemen couldn't survive it' the warden said and of course he was proved to be correct. Wilde died quite pitifully 30 November 1900. Despite the conditions Wilde was kind and gracious throughout and won over many people, including one of the wardens who took pity on Wilde and allowed him a pen and paper, which was strictly against the rules. Wilde was particularly disturbed by the treatment of children in prison, who were thrown in with the adults for minor offences. It was mainly for this reason, and to help keep his sanity, that The Ballad of Reading Gaol was penned. This was written in realistic style to add weight to the changes in prison legislation that Wilde was trying to help bring about. It was not completed until after his release but was drafted in prison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKL2KY67Soo

Jassy Melson
01-06-2013, 03:51 PM
I am quite familiar with Wilde as I researched and composed and wrote my thesis on him. Actually, my thesis was a play that I wrote about Wilde. I've read his letters, the transcripts of the trials, his journals, and letters that he wrote, and of course all his works--and criticism of his work. But you have shown through your reply to my post that your knowledge of Wilde is wider and deeper than mine.

I dare say that Wilde is the most tragic figure in world literature. What happened to him in 1895--and the remaining five years of his life-- makes it a tragedy.

I have often wondered what would have happened if Wilde had not taken the Marquess to court. I can't help feeling that Wilde would have ended repeating himself in his writing, because, after all, how can one top The Importance of Being Earnest?

LitNetIsGreat
01-06-2013, 07:09 PM
I have spent a lot of time reading Wilde in the past. I did my dissertation on him but read critically well before that. I've not read hardly anything on Wilde for well over a year now though so I'm a bit rusty, but I can remember most things.

That's an interesting question though, what would Wilde have done and written had the fatal events not taken place? Well Ross for one was entirely confident that Wilde new style of play in Earnest was the likely direction Wilde was heading. He also commented that the drafting of Earnest was done quickly and effortlessly, as he had never seen him do before - he was simply shocked at how easily Wilde penned it. He also said that had Wilde not met with his fate to early he would have produced at least another 10-15 plays that would have surpassed the quality of Earnest as Wilde had truly developed his potential at this point. Of course this is just Ross' conjecture, bias in favour of Wilde, and we will never know for sure. It is a scary thought though and clearly a waste of potential - whatever he would go on to produce - as well as such a human tragedy.

kev67
01-07-2013, 06:48 PM
There are some fancy, wrought gates and, I think, some park benches dedicated to Oscar Wilde just outside Reading Gaol. I thought it was very crass when they were put up. I felt as if Reading was trying to reflect a bit of Wilde's glamour on itself, when really it had nothing to be proud of. I think Reading Gaol is now a youth offenders institution. Grown ups are more likely to be sent to Bullingdon Prison in Oxford. Reading Gaol was actually located in quite a nice area. A river passes just behind it. The abbey ruins are right beside, and a park the other side of that. It would have been even nicer 100 years ago, although I doubt any of the inmates would have been able to see any of it.

Jassy Melson
01-08-2013, 11:29 AM
I suppose Reading Gaol felt that it should capitalise (sp.) on its most famous inmate. Putting up some park benches and a fence seems like a poor way of showing it however.

LitNetIsGreat
01-08-2013, 07:41 PM
Yes I'm not sure what to think. It wasn't the prisons fault though and I take some comfort that the surrounds were appealing - even if Wilde wouldn't have been able to appreciate that. I wonder if Pentonville or Wandsworth did anything to recognise Wilde in a similar way? Probably not as Reading is more famous due to the poem and he was there longer.

Jassy Melson
01-11-2013, 02:51 PM
Oh yes I am fascinated by Wilde, you are correct, what an interesting figure.

I'm not putting you straight, just giving the best guess from what I've read of the situation - for nobody knows these things for absolutely certainly. There are many inconsistencies when it comes to such details - Frank Miles is the worst offender, by all accounts absolutely unreadable due to the inconsistencies of his first hand account of Wilde.

There is a sort of tragic romanticism about Wilde's arrest. The way he sat back drinking wine in style waiting for it (even if he might not have had much of a choice about it). Have you come across the John Betjeman poem on the matter?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH0uPXxA8dg

Good fun.

Very sad though of course, genuinely I can hardly read his final letters, but what a way to await your arrest!

---

His two years hard labour was a virtual death sentence. The warden said that Wilde would not survive for much more than two years after his release in May '97 because the conditions in prison were absolutely horrendous at that time (Wilde had almost permanent diarrhoea due to the food and sanitary conditions and the extreme hardship was simply backbreaking) - 'gentlemen couldn't survive it' the warden said and of course he was proved to be correct. Wilde died quite pitifully 30 November 1900. Despite the conditions Wilde was kind and gracious throughout and won over many people, including one of the wardens who took pity on Wilde and allowed him a pen and paper, which was strictly against the rules. Wilde was particularly disturbed by the treatment of children in prison, who were thrown in with the adults for minor offences. It was mainly for this reason, and to help keep his sanity, that The Ballad of Reading Gaol was penned. This was written in realistic style to add weight to the changes in prison legislation that Wilde was trying to help bring about. It was not completed until after his release but was drafted in prison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKL2KY67Soo
Yes,. I am familiar with Betjeman's poem. I dislike it because I think he was poking fun at a very serious situation.

cacian
01-11-2013, 03:33 PM
Wild was wild what more can one say? Being accused of anything is on principle wrong if there was no cause for it. Rightly so Wild did what he had to do.
Anyone in his place would have done the same. Running away to another continent is the answer or gentleman like either.
Anyway that is my two cents on it.

Jassy Melson
01-12-2013, 10:50 AM
It is actually a complex question: Should Wilde have ignored the card the Marquess left and gone to France, or should he have done what he did? We can never know what went through Wilde's mind at the time--with the exception of perusing the letters he wrote. These letters show that Wilde was greatly under the influence of Lord Alfred Douglas at the time, and Douglas passionately hated his father and seems to have goaded Wilde into bringing the libel suit against Douglas's father.

LitNetIsGreat
01-12-2013, 04:27 PM
Yes and even if he did ignore it what then? He was being constantly harassed by Queensberry that in the end some sort of clash was inevitable.

See for example part of a letter addressed to Douglas circa 17th Feb 1895:

Dearest Boy, Yes: the Scarlet Marquis made a plot to address the audience on the first night of my play! Algy Bourke revealed it, and he was not allowed to enter.

He left a grotesque bouquet of vegetables for me! This of course makes his conduct idiotic, robs it of dignity.

He arrived with a prize fighter!! I had all Scotland Yard - twenty police - to guard the theatre. He prowled about for three hours, then left chattering like a monstrous ape...

With him being hounded in such a fashion you feel something had to give eventually, one way or another.

Jassy Melson
01-13-2013, 04:27 PM
I had the great pleasure of seeing Diversions and Delights in 1977--this was Vincent Price's one-man show wherein he portrayed Wilde after his release from prison. Price was "priceless" as Wilde. He conveyed a lot of what Wilde went through in the last three years of his life. It wasn't pretty.