Laocoön- Fear in marble form

[Kyriakos]

Laocoön (Λαοκόων in Greek) was a priest of Poseidon, who tried to warn the Trojans against accepting the horse constructed by the Achaeans. The result of this action, which went against the divine plans, was that the gods sent two large snakes from the sea, which killed Laocoön and his two sons. The story is immortalised in one of the greatest greek sculptures:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Laocoon_Pio-Clementino_Inv1059-1064-1067.jpg/624px-Laocoon_Pio-Clementino_Inv1059-1064-1067.jpg

It seems that Laocoön has an underlying non-mythical meaning, much like all other Greek myths. It could be argued to be of the extreme fear of punishment if one reveals the plans of ill-natured people. Kids know perfectly well this emotion, and even slang terms have been invented to solidify this threat of retribution if one goes against the law of silence.

In the Aeniad Laocoön is given a famous line, "Equo ne credite, Teucri. Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" ("Do not trust the Horse, Trojans. Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks even bearing gifts.").
The "Trojan horse" (in Greek Δούρειος Ίππος, which means "wooden horse") ends the years of laying siege on Troy, and does so with covert planning. Again this can find a potential parallelism in the often neffarious and convoluted plans leading to a great harm being dome. On the surface they seem - if not neutral- to be something inexplicable; in reality the confusion was down to unwillingness to realize the hidden plan.

So again Laocoön, the first true victim of the Trojan Horse, the first victim of the Achaeans inside of Troy, serves in my view as a reminder that sometimes the tide of horrible events cannot be undone or withheld, and much like in Poe's story "The masque of Red Death" we see that the inevitable finds its way to crawl through even prodigious defences, and in the end all will indeed be lost.

I thought of creating this thread as a means of discussion on particular meanings of mythological entities. Laocoön himself is one of the most known examples in Greek mythology, but the thread can potentially expand to other persons in the vast tree of mythoi the ancients created.

[prendrelemick]

The inevitability of fate is at the back of nearly all Greek literature. Men may twist and turn, but they are headed unerringly towards their doom. Not even Zeus himself messes with fate. Cassandra also warned the Trojans but was cursed never to be believed. I think their example shows us that people will only listen to what they want to hear. In fact people will attack and ridicule those who argue against the grain - trashing their character rather than their arguement (Cassandra was dismissed as a mad woman.) You see it on here often enough.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/prendrelemick/cassaendra2_zps06259ce0.jpeg

Cassandra clinging to the statue of Athene and being dragged off by Ajax during the sack of Troy. Ajax doesn't know it but he too is fulfilling his fate. By desecrating the sacred temple (and Cassandra) he seals his doom.

[cacian]

I find this story quite bizarre in a way because it is not often said that a god send for a priest who is supposed to be his worshipper to be killed by a creature.
A priest rebelling against a god is an unusual one to me.

It seems that Laocoön has an underlying non-mythical meaning, much like all other Greek myths. It could be argued to be of the extreme fear of punishment if one reveals the plans of ill-natured people. Kids know perfectly well this emotion, and even slang terms have been invented to solidify this threat of retribution if one goes against the law of silence.
I am not understanding this bit here. What is the law of silence?

[Kyriakos]

There is also a poem by Constantine Cavafy, titled "The Trojans", which speaks of this inevitability of doom.

Here is a translation of it found in Cavafy.com:

Trojans

Our efforts are those of men prone to disaster;
our efforts are like those of the Trojans.
We just begin to get somewhere,
gain a little confidence,
grow almost bold and hopeful,

when something always comes up to stop us:
Achilles leaps out of the trench in front of us
and terrifies us with his violent shouting.


Our efforts are like those of the Trojans.
We think we’ll change our luck
by being resolute and daring,
so we move outside ready to fight.

But when the great crisis comes,
our boldness and resolution vanish;
our spirit falters, paralyzed,
and we scurry around the walls
trying to save ourselves by running away.

Yet we’re sure to fail. Up there,
high on the walls, the dirge has already begun.
They’re mourning the memory, the aura of our days.
Priam and Hecuba mourn for us bitterly.

Edit:

@Cacian: i was referring to the law kids have, of not allowing anyone to speak to adults about their (often malignant) plans. It finds a parallelism throughout life, in that people are ostracised if they speak against their particular group.

[qimissung]

in reality the confusion was down to unwillingness to realize the hidden plan.

This really makes me think of a movie I watched tonight. It's one of my favorites. It's called "A Beautiful Life." Spoiler Alert: In it a young girl feels no emotion when her boyfriend kisses her. In her frustration, she begins to call him names, slaps him, then begs him to slap her. He does so reluctantly, then pulls away. It turns out that she has been sexually abused by her father. At the end of the movie she confronts her mother. Do you know why I ran away, she asks. Her mother shakes her head. Yes, you do, her daughter says. You know. You pulled me out of school, she cries. It was to homeschool you, it was for you, her mother says. "You gave him to me!" her daughter yells.

When she realizes that something is wrong with her, she tells her boyfriend no one must know. She tries to make him swear that he will tell no one.

I know abuse occurs, but I will never understand a parent knowingly allowing the abuse to occur and doing nothing about it.

[prendrelemick]

in reality the confusion was down to unwillingness to realize the hidden plan.

This really make me think of a movie I watched tonight. It's one of my favorites. It's called "A Beautiful Life." Spoiler Alert: In it a young girl feels no emotion when her boyfriend kisses her. In her frustration, she begins to call him names, slaps him, then begs him to slap her. He does so reluctantly, then pulls away. It turns out that she has been sexually abused by her father. At the end of the movie she confronts her mother. Do you know why I ran away, she asks. Her mother shakes her head. Yes, you do, her daughter says. You know. You pulled me out of school, she cries. It was to homeschool you, it was for you, her mother says. "You gave him to me!" her daughter yells.

When she realizes that something is wrong with her, she tells her boyfriend no one must know. She tries to make him swear that he will tell no one.

I know abuse occurs, but I will never understand a parent knowingly allowing the abuse to occur and doing nothing about it.

Which brings us neatly on to Iphigenia. I mean there's child abuse, then there's Iphigenia.

She was told she was going to her wedding, when in fact she was going to her death. Her own Father sacrificed her in order to get favourable winds for the Troy expedition.

[qimissung]

Wow. The magnitude of the betrayal kind of takes one's breath away. It wasn't always a good thing to be the child of a ruler. Your life was often sacrificed in one way or another.

[runsreads]

I would have sacrificed myself so that my child would have lived. Then again, I am not a ruler, either.

I think so much was blamed on the gods in the distant past. It is still done today. Maybe that causes humans to be less dynamic in their choices, and thus, their fates are decided since they just let God decide for them. In that way, they need not take the blame for anything. If I were a ruler, that is what I might want: to have no responsibility if things went wrong, then I need not fix it.

[prendrelemick]

So would I, but I am reminded of Henry V 's soliloquy of the responsibility of Kings

"Upon the King! Let us our lives, our souls,
Our debts, our careful wives,
Our children, and our sins, lay on the King!"

It was a sacrifice demanded by the army. Agamemnon, may have been King - but only at the sufferance of the army.


This Fate thing is a philosophical minefield certainly, In classic Greek times it was surrounded by subtlety and misdirection. It didn't lead to total stagnation because of the "over-weaning pride" of kings, who believed to a man they were fated for greatness. Often their true fate was hidden in full view, a seemingly favourable prophesey would lead them on to their destruction - and become self fullfilling.


The story of Croesus is a good example. He was rich and proud,(as rich as Creosus, in fact) he recieved an oracle saying if he attacked the Persians he would bring about the downfall of a mighty kingdom. So he did, and after his utter defeat, he realised it was his own Kingdom that was destined to fall.

I suppose parallels to this can still be found in the corporate world, for "prophesy" read "forecasts"!

[JBI]

I believe the hand missing from the top centre left of the statue (our left) has been recovered and re-attached already.

That being said, nobody likes a Debby-Downer, even if they are right. China, where I live now, has a long history of such outspoken, "banished" wisdom bearers. The most famous being Qu Yuan, who wrote a great long poem, Li Sao, or On Encountering Sorrow, which details such rejection at trying to warn the king of Chu against making treaties and visiting Qin (which eventually led to the fall of Chu, and the unification of China under its first emperor). Such an archetype seems to dominate political poets up until the modern period. Certainly the sage-poet Du Fu wrote in a similar vein, or, at least, one inflected by a sense of ability and a secondary sense of being unable to show his abilities.

I am not a fatalist. I interpret such a myth as showing wisdom can be seen in single individuals against the tide. Such people usually meet first with ridicule, and then meet secondly with unending fame.

[Lokasenna]

Norse mythology puts a high premium on wisdom, with many characters engaging in games of one-upmanship in demonstrating the scope of their knowledge: the loser usually ends up dying as a result.

Kvasir, who is described as the wisest man who ever lived, does not have a long or happy life. Following a peace conference amongst the gods, the assembled divinities cast their collective spit (or semen - the word can mean both) into a pot, from which Kvasir emerges. He travels the world, spreading knowledge, wisdom and art - until some dwarves kill him, and process the mead of poetry out of his corpse. Whilst the mead of poetry is ultimately the impetus for all learning and art in the worlds, nevertheless Kvasir's death highlights the necessity of sacrifices. Many wise male figures (the rules are noticeably different for women) end up having a violent and undignified death.

[prendrelemick]

Well nobody likes a clever dick. Look what happened to Socrates, I reckon everyone was fed up with him always being right. And as for Prometheus...


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/prendrelemick/300px-Prometheus_Adam_Louvre_MR1745_edit_atoma_zpse3f67a f2.jpg


Chained to a rock for eternity and having his liver eaten daily by a vulture. His crime was passing secret godly knowledge to mortals. ( I often wonder about that vulture, did it ever get fed up of liver?)

[stlukesguild]

There seems to be a common theme throughout much of literature of the high price paid by prophets and visionaries. Alongside Laocoon you have Cassandra...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4fzCDYCHjrM/UOYoEicZKDI/AAAAAAAAZlY/7z8wg6c_GZA/s1600/langlois-jerome-martin-cassandre-figure-detude-mba-chambery.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

... and one could point of John the Baptist and Jesus as well.

[ftil]

There seems to be a common theme throughout much of literature of the high price paid by prophets and visionaries. Alongside Laocoon you have Cassandra...




That’s a nice thumbnail image. :lol:

[runsreads]

I often wonder about that vulture, did it ever get fed up of liver?)

From the behavior of vultures that I have noticed around roadkill, it seems that they can never get enough of the stuff..

[prendrelemick]

Tiresias, the greatest seer of all, popping up here there and everywhere - constantly abused, blinded, turned into a woman, turned back again. Then (according to Dante), spending eternity with his head twisted round backwards. When asked what the secret of a happy life was, he answered - an ordinary one.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/prendrelemick/imagesCAIX9P1T_zps8f744381.jpg


Tiresias blinded by Juno.

[DocHeart]

Tiresias, the greatest seer of all, popping up here there and everywhere - constantly abused, blinded, turned into a woman, turned back again. Then (according to Dante), spending eternity with his head twisted round backwards.


His troubles never end. Tiresias is also the name given to Greece's current system for obtaining credit ratings. Commonly, phrases such as the following are heard:

"If only I could find 5,000, I'd be able to get out of Tiresias."

"I'm sorry, sir, we can't increase your card limit. Tiresias says no."

"Look, you seem like a nice guy, and I had a great time the other night, but my sister works in a bank and she's looked you up in Tiresias. Your name made the whole screen flash."

Regards,
DH

[prendrelemick]

^Ha! Poor old Tiresias, His breasts have also spawned an opera! There is no end to his indignities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHsxhq6EP1s

And working away behind the scenes in Greece are the Moirai or the three fates.

There's Clotho, the Spinner (The National Bank) Lachesis, the Allotter (The Credit card company) and Atropos the pitiless, with her shears who cuts up your credit card.