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Mawaya-No-Kami
11-01-2012, 12:19 PM
Hi, this is my first post. I've been writing for a few years but this is the biggest project I've started so I'm just looking to get some feedback on it, if anyone is interested the rest can be found on my website (http://www.lintukoto.org.uk) but right now I'm just looking for some opinion on the base idea and how I've been writing it... Thanks!

Chapter One
Kave: A New Moon

Under the dark sapphire blanket of the night sky Kave admired his work, it was his finest yet. The stars sparkled like the reflections of fireflies on still water and night sky breathed a silent breath of tranquillity that echoed the stillness in the air. The moon was bright in the sky, the brightest pale white arc that he had ever painted.
Many moons had passed since the islands of Lintukoto had risen from the world and there were few alive today that still hold memories of that day. Kave is not one of them; he is instead of sky lineage, being able to progress the cycles of the moon by painting its different phases. This in itself may seem like a small task but his work maps time itself as the days accumulate and turn into months, the cycles by which the Lintu measure the passing of time.
A content smile crept slowly across Kave's face, a strong face that was both full of determination and compassion that held the smile only for a moment before it slipped back again to reveal his more commonly composed expression. He was not a harsh man but a serious one, one that understood the importance of his daily task and took great pride in creating the different illuminations of the moon.
Kave's dark blue eyes, as dark as the night sky itself stared upward at his creation, an image so powerful that it almost eclipsed the stars themselves into total darkness. His illumination shone so bright that the stars could barely be seen. He had painted the moon tonight in the image of his beautiful wife, Ilmatar and it was with her beauty that the moon shone much brighter than its usual self.
Being a descendant of the brotherhood of the night, Kave formed a strong bond with the moon in his youth as he watched it sit still each night from the northern most edge of the islands. As time passed, he became able to pass his emotions into the moon's energy and give it shape and illuminate it in ways that no one thought possible. It is by these illuminations that the people of the islands measure how far into each cycle they have reached; waiting twenty eight or sometimes thirty days before Kave would begin his cycle again.
Tonight Kave sat in the long grass admiring his latest work on the northern most edge of the islands, a creation that had been inspired by the radiant beauty of his wife Ilmatar. His shoulder length raven hair danced gently in the soft breeze of the night as it fell back over his ears as it always would; his two full feathers and a third smaller one resting just above his left ear. These too were raven black.You could measure the age of a Lintu by the number of feathers above their ears, one whole feather indicated one hundred and twenty moon cycles; a decade.
Kave sat in the long grass near the very edge of the island, his bare arms stretched back and holding his weight as he leaned on them. His skin was a pale tan and the muscles in his arms tensed as the held his weight, his bare chest stretched underneath his dark blue vest as it remained untied across his front. His one leg stretched out before him, the other with his knee raised allowing the light coloured cotton leggings to fall back behind the knee.
The dark shadows that were painted on the skin under his eyes almost emphasised their pure deep blue, the same blue you could see in the sky at that moment almost sparkling in memory of the stars that were now masked by the beauty of his creation. He reached his hands forward as he raised his outstretched leg to meet the other then rested his forearms on his knees. Beaded straps around his wrists, made for him by Ilmatar, dangled and a silver amulet around his neck fell to his chest and mimicked their swaying.
Kave had stayed out after his work much longer than usual the past few nights, he had become ill at ease with what he had seen across the ocean of clouds that moved gently beneath the islands. Each night he had been seeing an orange glow off in the distance that he could only have described as a fire burning beneath the clouds, and each night it had appeared to be getting closer to the islands. He knew such a thing could not exist, there was nothing beneath the clouds in his mind. It was his concerns that led his mind back to the safety of his beautiful wife, Ilmatar and had inspired the painted illumination he had given the moon tonight.
Behind Kave there was a small whisper of the grass shuffling under the weight of footsteps but it did not break his attention, nothing could have done so. An old man draped in white and with a long pale beard down to his waist moved to his side, a long robe covered the man and a rope tied around his waist met with his pale beard. His head held no hair, only nine full feathers and a tenth smaller one above the old man's left ear. He stood with both hands on top of a dark oak walking stick.
"She's beautiful isn't she?" asked Kave and the old man nodded in response, knowing that Kave was referring to Ilmatar and not the moon that shone so brightly above them.
The two men remained silent at the very edge of the islands for a while, the long grass dancing gently in the breeze when the old man shuffled his aged hands on the top of his dark oak walking stick, one over the other.
"What is that, old man?" enquired Kave, nodding his head in the direction of the burning orange glow out in the distance. His eyes were still on the moon, his beautiful Ilmatar. "Have you ever seen anything like that?"
"Hmm." replied the old man, shuffling his hands over the dark oak walking stick one more time.
"You mean to say you don't know?" teased Kave and for a moment there was only silence. The old man squinted his pale grey eyes, this was not an attempt to see beyond what he could already see but it was simply his way.
"Never seen." muttered the old man, voice raspy as he stretched his neck to clear his throat.
"Never seen?" Kave teased again, "Surely a man as old and as wise as yourself should have seen everything there is to see by now? You are our elder are you not?"
Again the old man said nothing. Kave returned his gaze to the beauty of the moon and removed the mock smile from his face; the old man stood silently beside him staring out across the sea of clouds. Moments of some length had passed before the old man sighed heavily with his voice still raspy, he stretched his neck once more and spoke, "I know what it is boy." and said no more.
"I thought you... " began Kave, the old man quickly interrupted before he could be teased any further.
"Memories return. Like books in a library. Stored. To be found but never gone." mused the old man, a wry smile curling at the edges of his mouth a raising the beard along his cheeks slightly.

hillwalker
11-01-2012, 07:14 PM
Possibly you're being over-ambitious expecting us to read a +5000 word posting then give feedback. Most on here choose to read something a little shorter, but I'll give it a go.

First of all, Prologues are popular in fantasy and sci fi for some strange reason but generally they're frowned upon. Why not start with Chapter 1 so the reader knows immediately what sort of story they're going to be told? Prologues are often an excuse to dump a load of boring back-story before the actual story starts - and yours is a perfect example. Who needs that?

You lost me with your second sentence.
Many cycles ago, where a single cycle or phase of the moon is the appearance of the illuminated portion of the moon as seen by the people, the world was once glorious and full of creation.
It reads like a mangled Wikipedia article rather than a story. If this is an indication of the style in which you write then few readers will bother continuing beyond the first paragraph.

It's badly overwritten - wasting words repeating yourself:
The people of the world, known as the Lintu, walked it's skin in their hundreds. The Lintu were nomads that had wandered the lands and crossed its oceans their entire lives; not once in their existence did they believe that they should cease their travelling and settle.

I'm sorry but I couldn't read any further. You're not writing a story. You're listing tedious facts that are presumably necessary to understand your made-up world but it's all tell, tell, tell. More like an encyclopaedia entry than the opening to a novel. It's not even intriguing.

Perhaps readers of the fantasy genre accept this standard of writing - personally I found it a drudge. Which is a shame, because you started writing rather well once you began Chapter One. Though it quickly degenerated into another history lesson. I gave up once I reached the 5th sentence. No story in sight.

You have obviously put a great deal of effort into this but it's painful to read. Sorry, but the mere thought of another 4000 words of tedium convinced me life was too short to waste another minute with it.

H

Jack of Hearts
11-01-2012, 07:56 PM
Welcome.

First of all, this reader believes you have the potential to write well. But there's some major issues with your treatise posted here. To get someone to read anything over 1,000 words, it would have to be very well written and entertaining. This isn't either of those things, it's just over written. Think of your readers. Think of how much it sucks to read overly dense/complicated materials that really amount to no significant payoff, all the while having nothing to connect to in the story and putting up with disingenuous tonality.

Also, skip a line between dialogue and paragraphs on here, break up the wall of text, for your reader's sake. And post again-- take another shot at it with your newfound sense of empathy for your readership, which exists if you care about it.








J

Mawaya-No-Kami
11-02-2012, 06:38 AM
That's really helpful feedback, thanks.

I didn't realize the actual size of what I'd written, so I would first like to apologize for that little error and have retracted the prologue and the later part of the first chapter so that there is a more sizable amount.

Second, I'm pretty disappointed to hear overwritten when my first few attempts were slated as underwritten...

Looks like it's back to the drawing board then, if I could just ask for some advice on how to relay the world's history without making it a history lesson that would be much appreciated too? As it becomes an important part of the story.

Thanks again.

Delta40
11-02-2012, 07:22 AM
I must agree with Hill's comment about repetitive use of words. Your opening lines are a fine example:


Under the dark sapphire blanket of the night sky Kave admired his work, it was his finest yet. The stars sparkled like the reflections of fireflies on still water and night sky breathed a silent breath of tranquillity that echoed the stillness in the air. The moon was bright in the sky, the brightest pale white arc that he had ever painted

This is an overwritten condensed piece and alot for the reader to get through. What you need to do is take a chopper to it and hack through all the unnecessary words (for example, is this how you would describe something verbally?) and details (for example, just how relevant is the setting to the story?). Less is more is an excellent rule to follow as the reader wants a narrative which flows like a waterfall rather than one that is like being in a thick, tangled undergrowth.

I too was unable to continue much further as the same issue was apparent but I do agree you obviously have talent and imagination.

Mawaya-No-Kami
11-02-2012, 08:25 AM
Thanks for the comment.

It's quite clear I've leaped too far from underwritten and straight into overwritten, I'm finding it hard to get back to at the moment as this is effectively undoing a massive work load but it clearly needs to be done...

It's a good thing I came here as I've written a rather large chunk, far larger than I have posted here and I've no idea how my work was doing as I have very few who have read it (especially recently, which is when the majority has been done).

Thanks.

hillwalker
11-02-2012, 11:48 AM
You don't need to 'relay the world's history' in quite so much detail before the story even begins.

From what little I remember - the Lintu were nomads who didn't stay in one place too long to avoid polluting their planet. Then one of the elders close to death announced she wanted her remains placed in one particular spot... if I've misremembered it, apologies.
It's hardly arresting material, and the rest of your prologue about cycles and creation etc. did nothing to make the world any more real to the reader and could have been fed in more subtly as the plot unravelled.

You claim to be surprised that we consider this overwritten. Let's look at the opening to your condensed extract (with my own punctuation):

Under the dark sapphire blanket of the night sky Kave admired his work. It was his finest yet. The stars sparkled like the reflections of fireflies on still water and night sky breathed - a silent breath of tranquillity that echoed echoing the stillness in the air. The moon was bright in the sky, the brightest pale white arc that he had ever painted.

The underlined bits are superfluous or repetitious or muddled and add very little to the scene. BUT what does this opening tell the reader? I presumed Kave was a deity who creates the night sky.

The next part has similar problems to your Prologue - why do we need to know - Many moons had passed since the islands of Lintukoto had risen from the world and there were few alive today that still hold memories of that day.? At this stage in the story it means very little - it begs the question 'So what?'

Stick with Kave - unless we can figure out what he's doing sooner rather than later we won't much care to read more about him.

Kave is not one of them; he is instead of sky lineage, being able to progress recording the cycles of the moon by painting its different phases. This in itself may seem like a small task but his work He maps time itself as the days accumulate and turn into months, the cycles by which the Lintu measure the passing of time.

More than 80 words trimmed from your first paragraph and we're no worse off in my opinion.

Then you continue:

A contented smile crept slowly across Kave's face, a strong face that was both full of determination and compassion that held the smile only for a moment before it slipped back again to reveal his more commonly composed expression.

Can you begin to see what's wrong with this sentence? Almost 40 words to tell us he smiled then didn't smile. And the next sentence is a combination of the same - plus you remind us of his work. The plot is bogged down already and the story hasn't even started.

The next paragraph - now we move from his smile to his eyes - and again we're reminded of his painting - the only new item is that he painted the sky in the image of his wife.

But then we have more history - explaining why he paints the moon - then we're reminded that the people measure time through the cycles of the moon. Almost 500 words to tell us Kave records the moon's phases. If that's not overwriting I don't know what is.

Then you remind us again how his latest painting was inspired by Ilmatar before going on to describe his hair and how feathers are a measure of age (does that really matter at this moment in the story?). I'm beginning to wonder whether or not there is a story.

99% of your readers will have given up long before now - if you can't hook them on page 1 you've lost them.

You even repeat the same phrase in the following paragraph Kave sat in the long grass before describing his skin - and the position of his legs. It's getting tiresome.

Then we're reminded about the beauty of his creation yet again - and the sky. And there's a little variety as you refer to his arm movements. Still no story within a million miles... until we're informed of 'an orange glow' that fills him with unease.

HINT HINT - this is where the story starts. All that preceded it can be discarded. It gives you an opportunity to briefly explain why he's focussing on the sky.

The problem is, of course, that you're not interested in revealing the plot to us. You're too tied up in recording the physical description of everything and everyone. As I said earlier - it's an encyclopaedia entry not a story. If you need further proof of how you over-write and repeat things look at this:

An old man draped in white and with a long pale beard down to his waist moved to his side, a long robe covered the man and a rope tied around his waist met with his pale beard.

My advice - arm yourself with a red pen and start slashing away.

H

Mawaya-No-Kami
11-02-2012, 12:25 PM
That really is good advice and I appreciate it...

I'm regretting listening to the few who have read it as they wanted more details and explanations of everything and I gave it to them! I was told that my writing simply ran as a 'this happened, then this happened and then this happened' and I have far overstepped avoiding that.

Slashing away is exactly what I plan to do! Thank you.

hillwalker
11-02-2012, 12:34 PM
It's all about balance. Stories are not supposed to be lists of events... but they can end up being just that unless you explore your characters along the way and have them interact with the plot.

Good luck.

H

Mawaya-No-Kami
11-02-2012, 08:19 PM
I appreciate everything you've given me, I came here to find out how my work could be improved and I've been given exactly that.

I still stand by the general style (mistake or not) but it's clear that the repetition needs to be stripped back if anyone is ever to read enough of the story for me to gain an opinion there as well, seeing as this is the only piece I'm working on at the moment it may be a while before I return with anything...

Thanks again.

Steven Hunley
11-04-2012, 12:43 PM
All fantasy writers have the same problem in establishing initial settings. Every aspect has to be described. Nothing is familiar. It's so much easier to say "It was a cold autumn day in Central Park." We already know the trees are bare, the zoo is empty, and Italian gangsters are waiting behind every bush, and will be arrested by Irish cops. We fear clichés instead. Your problem is different. But hey, you're in good company. I don't read Tolkien, but believe it took him a whole book to set up his middle earth trilogy. Dickens takes an entire chapter in Tale of Two Cities to establish setting, even though we should already know how it was back then. People here see promise in your writing, so much they took the time to comment, putting a comma in their everyday lives so to speak, to respond. That means there's something good here, a good seed. It just needs nurturing. We've got plenty of nurtures about, so go to it.

Mawaya-No-Kami
11-04-2012, 05:21 PM
Thanks, it's always good to hear something like that.

My holiday is up and I'm back in work tomorrow so time spent on this will be difficulty to come by. I'm not a writer by any means, I'm more an artist or an idea person but when this story came to mind it just kept snowballing and for over a year I couldn't shake it...

Eventually, I'll do it justice. It's not something I can just let go.

Thanks for your support, everyone's.