The end of the world as we know it

[Volya]

So for a few months now I have been thinking about the possibility of the world degenerating into one huge cluster-**** of anarchy and chaos (aka the apocalypse, the end of the world). Various stories in the news as of late have ominous predictions for the future, and I know a few people who sincerely believe that 'the end is nigh' as it were, and are already preparing for a disaster of any kind. A friend I know has even gone to the time to write out a summary of how he thinks it's going to kick off.


This is how I think it may go down. I base this off the US falling first because:

A) I live here, and see the trends that are developing, and
B) I really think it will start with us. Not because I am self centered, but because I think that there is a lot on our shoulders, and we are faltering.

This may be lengthy, or boring, but after reading another thread, and trying to contribute.. I felt it was worth putting up, even if I'm the only one that reads it. Lord knows it won't be the only unattended thread in here.

In a nutshell, I think that Civil Unrest will kick it off.

Our government has become nearly all powerful. It's nearly to the point where resistance is foolish, or suicidal. Our window of opportunity to change anything has likely passed us by, and I believe that we are now merely passengers on the way down.

1) The dollar crashes after the next round of bailouts. Our National Credit Rating drops again, making our international trading power dwindle.

2) This will drive up costs for nearly everything. We will need to develop a "cash and carry" system of trade, rather than our current method of credit being extended to us. We simply can not afford to immediately pay for the things we buy, this will compound the problem with inflation.

3) We will plead with Fitch, Moody, and S&P to get our credit rating improved, to no avail. This will make us look ridiculous, but we will do it anyway. Our allies will shy away from us, leaving us a bit more vulnerable militarily. We won't pull our troops home, because even though war is expensive, it keeps people employed.

4) Inflation will hit a ridiculous level, making the middle class below poverty, and those already there will be destitute. Minimum wage is around $7.50 an hour, and will need to be nearer $12.00 an hour to compete with the cost of living increases. This simply will not happen.

5) In-fighting among the middle class will ensue. Protests will become riots, riots will become city wide events, instead of localized issues. Local law enforcements will be overwhelmed, and need to call in Other departments, or even the National Guard.

6) Outcry from the near military presence against citizens will cause the outcry to be pointed at the rich, and the government, rather than within class. This will make the rich and powerful sh!t themselves, prompting further show of force responses.

7) Citizens will begin to respond to force with force. This will cause the Government to declare a "State of Emergency" in those areas. Most areas have legislation on the books for a State of Emergency that include the following Constitutional Rights to be null and void: Right to Assembly, Protection from Search and Seizure, Right to Due Process. People will be placed in facilities, "unlawfully" detained, large gatherings of people will be responded to the same as riots, police will confiscate weapons, and property.

8) Once this has started, and the areas that are not affected are "convinced" that it is for the greater good, and the safety of the rest that we be disarmed, and placed on a status of "high alert" meaning a State of Emergency without proper cause. Some will resist, and it will be enough to prompt them to declare an actual State of Emergency, and follow suit with the others.

9) This will enrage enough to start all out revolution, and force will be met with force. I can't even hazard a guess as to how this would actually play out, but it will be ugly.

10) The rest of the world will watch this, some will smirk, some will laugh outright, and others will panic. Treaties, and obligations from us will not be honored, sparking international outrage. (Example: we send NK ____ barrels of oil as a deterrent to continue their nuclear facilities... we will be unable to honor that agreement, causing issues globally.

11) Without the US honoring obligations, we will be up on the chopping block, debts will be called, allies will walk away, and we will be very vulnerable, possibly outright attacked.

12) Irreparable damage to the US will be done within the global community, leaving us akin to a 3rd world country. Having fallen to this point, recovery is fantasy.

13) Having nothing to lose, the US resorts to violence with smaller countries, as a last ditch effort to recover. Having neither the resources, or credibility to pull it off, we will fail; taking with us a huge portion of the Global Economy. Setting off a chain reaction with select other countries, down the same path we had just taken.

Welcome to the new world of chemical weapons, actual war in the streets, poverty, and lack of infrastructure the likes of which this country has never seen. Gone are the days of adequate healthcare, clean water, functional police/fire protection. It progresses downward from there I'm sure, but you get the idea.

He truly believes that this WILL happen in our lifetimes.

Here are a few other links that are somewhat related:

http://rt.com/news/switzerland-prepares-europe-unrest-263/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/12/food-prices-affordability-ethical

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9595505/Iran-could-make-nuclear-bomb-within-10-months.html

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2012\10\13\story_13-10-2012_pg14_4

http://news.sky.com/story/994445/us-deal-to-extend-south-koreas-missile-range

So with a combination of rising food prices, diminishing supply of oil, high unemployment, and the possibility of nuclear war, do you think this would be enough for things to turn nasty?

[Emil Miller]

So for a few months now I have been thinking about the possibility of the world degenerating into one huge cluster-****

I think the amount of time spent on this forum discussing Harry Potter is a fairly good indication as to which way the wind is blowing.

[cacian]

For a minute I thought you were talking REM song.
Somehow if the world was going to blow up it would have done so ages ago why suddenlynow?

[AuntShecky]

Have a nice day! :wave:

[Volya]

For a minute I thought you were talking REM song.
Somehow if the world was going to blow up it would have done so ages ago why suddenlynow?

...did you even read further than the first sentence?

[Emil Miller]

...did you even read further than the first sentence?

Ah, but did you read this ?

I see cupid
amongst the lucids
he drops his arrow
his bow is narrow
let the heart
finds its own carreau

[Volya]

Ah, but did you read this ?

I see cupid
amongst the lucids
he drops his arrow
his bow is narrow
let the heart
finds its own carreau

Nope.

[Emil Miller]

Nope.

Well how about this ? If you know what it means please let me know.

dust to dust

the wrath
the anger
the body builder
they all tease
fate
harbour a taste
in case
a face
comes daring praise

the wrath
the thunder
the heaving blunder
they all clutch
a burning rage
they brood
rude
whenever shrude
gets on their mood

the wrath
the tard
the blast of pasts,
whatever caged
the bitter feist
let ill all churn
turn into gurn
and it won't burn

[AuntShecky]

Volya, Cacian, Emil and all interested Litnutters out there, please read
"Earth's Holocaust" by Nathaniel Hawthorne (http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/3000/), and tell me what you think.

[Volya]

Ok, will get back to you when I am finished reading.

EDIT: I am back.
A rather peculiar story that was, with a most depressing ending...
But I thoroughly agree with what Hawthorne says, that evil lies in human nature, not the tools that we use.

One would wish to know the reason behind sharing the story with us?

[cacian]

...did you even read further than the first sentence?

Hi Volya I do apologise dearly.
My fault I was very tired.
I'll reread again because I think this is an interesting thread.
As it happens I was actually recently thinking about the end of the world and the Mayan and was wondering why and how they could predict anything of such.
If anything they would have predicted their own end. There is a definit big jump and they predicted the wrong end of the stick.
I will give it another go.
Firstly can I just ask why did you friend write all that up?
Was that meant to be a blog?

[Volya]

Hi Volya I do apologise dearly.
My fault I was very tired.
I'll reread again because I think this is an interesting thread.
As it happens I was actually recently thinking about the end of the world and the Mayan and was wondering why and how they could predict anything of such.
If anything they would have predicted their own end. There is a definit big jump and they predicted the wrong end of the stick.
I will give it another go.
Firstly can I just ask why did you friend write all that up?
Was that meant to be a blog?

It's ok, just making sure you realized I wasn't talking about some big explosion xD

In regards to the Mayans, I highly doubt anything will happen at the end of 2012. As far as I'm aware the Mayans didn't actually predict the end of the world, but rather the end of a cycle. My only thoughts on the matter are that it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy, with possible looting and anarchy by crazy people who believe it is the end of the world.

It wasn't a blog, it's quoted from a thread he posted on a prepping forum. I respect the guy a lot, so I figure if he thinks the end could be coming, then it could be best to be on your guard.

I personally do not think that there will DEFINITELY be an apocalypse (when I say apocalypse, I mean the fall of the government/system, mass panic, looting, civil unrest, etc), but I think it is a possibility.

[cacian]

Ok, will get back to you when I am finished reading.

EDIT: I am back.
A rather peculiar story that was, with a most depressing ending...
But I thoroughly agree with what Hawthorne says, that evil lies in human nature, not the tools that we use.
One would wish to know the reason behind sharing the story with us?

The tools make for a great deal of evil.
How about guns and weapons?
Spears and guillotines?
Stones even and poison.These are evil tools invented by humans that might not have been intended harm in them.
Underestimating the power of tools is what drives evil to flourish.

[cacian]

It's ok, just making sure you realized I wasn't talking about some big explosion xD
LOl I did not think that.


In regards to the Mayans, I highly doubt anything will happen at the end of 2012. As far as I'm aware the Mayans didn't actually predict the end of the world, but rather the end of a cycle. My only thoughts on the matter are that it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy, with possible looting and anarchy by crazy people who believe it is the end of the world.

It wasn't a blog, it's quoted from a thread he posted on a prepping forum. I respect the guy a lot, so I figure if he thinks the end could be coming, then it could be best to be on your guard.
Yes but how does one predict the unpredictability?
A bit like an earthquake or a vesivius one can predict more or less what it is going to be like but one is never prepared to the full.
I guess optimism is our only saviour.
If one knows what to expect one can work to make it right.
Preparing for panick is perhaps not a good way to deal with disaster.
Keeping at bay and controlling it is better long term.
I am an optimist as far optimism goes but giving up on ourselves can be a right pessimist.

I personally do not think that there will DEFINITELY be an apocalypse (when I say apocalypse, I mean the fall of the government/system, mass panic, looting, civil unrest, etc), but I think it is a possibility.
Yes definetely it is already happening you just have to look at Syria and you know that is apocalypse. No one is immune from it power and money included.

[Volya]

The tools make for a great deal of evil.
How about guns and weapons?
Spears and guillotines?
Stones even and poison.These are evil tools invented by humans that might not have been intended harm in them.
Underestimating the power of tools is what drives evil to flourish.

Guns are not evil. Spears are not evil. Guillotines are not evil. Yes, they were all made to kill people. But who made them? Humans. Humans are the ones who bring evil into the world, not the weapons.

[Volya]

LOl I did not think that.


Yes but how does one predict the unpredictability?
A bit like an earthquake or a vesivius one can predict more or less what it is going to be like but one is never prepared to the full.
I guess optimism is our only saviour.
If one knows what to expect one can work to make it right.
Preparing for panick is perhaps not a good way to deal with disaster.
Keeping at bay and controlling it is better long term.
I am an optimist as far optimism goes but giving up on ourselves can be a right pessimist.

Yes definetely it is already happening you just have to look at Syria and you know that is apocalypse. No one is immune from it power and money included.

We can predict most possible disasters, and we can prepare for them as much as we can. But of course, no amount of preparation means you will be 100% safe. I agree that it would be better to try and keep it at bay for as long as we can, but one person on their own cannot do that. However one person on their own CAN prepare for if it happens.

I agree with what you say about Syria. A situation like Syria, but gone global, and with even more killing, is how I envisage the apocalypse.

[cacian]

Guns are not evil. Spears are not evil. Guillotines are not evil. Yes, they were all made to kill people. But who made them? Humans. Humans are the ones who bring evil into the world, not the weapons.

Wasn't there a myth about women and weapon?
Something about one would not trust a woman holding a sharp object or a something like that?
Yes you are very right that some are pure evil but that is because they do not know anything else. Their life is so bad it is kind of impossible not to be.
Let's consider driving and road rage. A perfectly fine decent person till they get in their car and they are more evil then evil.
Yet is a car is suppose to help you move fast from one place to another.
I think one must not understimate the power behing tools/inventions.
Some do have on effect on the psychology of the mind.

[Volya]

Wasn't there a myth about women and weapon?
Something about one would not trust a woman holding a sharp object or a something like that?
Yes you are very right that some are pure evil but that is because they do not know anything else. Their life is so bad it is kind of impossible not to be.
Let's consider driving and road rage. A perfectly fine decent person till they get in their car and they are more evil then evil.
Yet is a car is suppose to help you move fast from one place to another.
I think one must not understimate the power behing tools/inventions.
Some do have on effect on the psychology of the mind.

Again, the whole road-rage thing, I don't think that's a matter of the weapon/tool being evil, it's the power that it gives the person. When people aren't restrained by the moral code of society, they often act a lot differently.

[cacian]

Again, the whole road-rage thing, I don't think that's a matter of the weapon/tool being evil, it's the power that it gives the person. When people aren't restrained by the moral code of society, they often act a lot differently.

Interesting point the moral code.
How does one establish a code and think it to be moral?
If we measure behaviour with moral codes then we must weigh out the consequences.
The difficulty of this impredictability. How do we predict one is goingto lose it?

[Emil Miller]

Volya, Cacian, Emil and all interested Litnutters out there, please read
"Earth's Holocaust" by Nathaniel Hawthorne (http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/3000/), and tell me what you think.

He labours his point and I think it could have been done more succinctly but
this certainly applies today to our current soi-disant reformers:

"Now that they have kindled the bonfire, if these nonsensical
reformers would fling themselves into it, all would be well enough!"

"Be patient," responded a stanch conservative; "it will come to that
in the end. They will first fling us in, and finally themselves."

[AuntShecky]

He labours his point and I think it could have been done more succinctly but this certainly applies today to our current soi-disant reformers:

"Now that they have kindled the bonfire, if these nonsensical
reformers would fling themselves into it, all would be well enough!"

"Be patient," responded a stanch conservative; "it will come to that
in the end. They will first fling us in, and finally themselves."

The story stunned me, both the content and the style. Re: the former: it was so intriguing what items were prioritized to get rid of first, and how human nature clings to the certain valuables and everyday items they hold dear (or believe to be necessities.) The segment depicting how a few secretly hold back a liquor bottle or two was very funny!

Philosophically, I wonder if Hawthorne is mulling over the fact -- in the 19th century, yet!-- whether civilization has gotten so untenably bad that the only thing left to do is destroy everything--the whole world--and start over. And what, Hawthorne asks, of The Holy Scripture? (Matt. 24:35) I had to ask the Google machine for the Chapter and verse.

Stylistically, I think the story is a brilliant piece of satire. Talk about irritating the status quo! I adored the final sentences , so sly yet realistic.

Actually there are some cultures that have or had traditions in which the people would willingly destroy every last trace in order to build anew. I can remember hearing about a ritual in which Aborigines did just that in a ceremony called "Busk." (If that's the term, spelled that way. Google couldn't or wouldn't help me there.) Then far more recently, a couple of years ago a twenty-something guy sold every last possession--right down to his toothbrush-- on the Internet. He was either an incurable optimist or the complete opposite.

[Emil Miller]

The story stunned me, both the content and the style. Re: the former: it was so intriguing what items were prioritized to get rid of first, and how human nature clings to the certain valuables and everyday items they hold dear (or believe to be necessities.) The segment depicting how a few secretly hold back a liquor bottle or two was very funny!

Philosophically, I wonder if Hawthorne is mulling over the fact -- in the 19th century, yet!-- whether civilization has gotten so untenably bad that the only thing left to do is destroy everything--the whole world--and start over. And what, Hawthorne asks, of The Holy Scripture? (Matt. 24:35) I had to ask the Google machine for the Chapter and verse.

Stylistically, I think the story is a brilliant piece of satire. Talk about irritating the status Qoe! I adored the final sentences , so sly yet realistic.

Actually there are some cultures that have or had traditions in which the people would willingly destroy every last trace in order to build anew. I can remember hearing about a ritual in which Aborigines did just that in a ceremony called "Busk." (If that's the term, spelled that way. Google couldn't or wouldn't help me there.) Then far more recently, a couple of years ago a twenty-something guy sold every last possession--right down to his toothbrush-- on the Internet. He was either an incurable optimist or the complete opposite.

Yes, the message lies at the end of the tale, the perennial question of the heart or the brain ? We shouldn't let our heart rule our heads, as is all too often the liberal position, but neither should the intellect be paramount with its capacity for justifying evil for the most beneficial reasons. The argument, that has been the cause of wars throughout history, is what is the ratio of one to the other for a solution to the rapacity of man's naturally endowed instincts ?

[tonywalt]

I'm bunkered down with a chest of drawers full of tuna, a case of Pellagrino a red ryder BB gun- a goldfish bowl full of vodka;)

Tell me when it's safe.

[cacian]

I'm bunkered down with a chest of drawers full of tuna, a case of Pellagrino a red ryder BB gun- a goldfish bowl full of vodka;)

Tell me when it's safe.
Hey tony what you have just listed does not sound safe. haha.
Safe is a notion entirely dependent on the individual's perception of it.
I would say that the end of the world may be safety for some and thrill for others.
The danger is not the end of the world it is the end of people's rationality against what the word 'end' mean. ;)

[ralfyman]

Conventional oil production has been flat since 2005 while demand has continued to grow because of a middle class in developing countries. The difference between supply and demand has been met by non-conventional oil sources which are more expensive energy-wise. This has led to high oil prices. Some sources argue that oil production will drop by 2015, leading to "massive dislocations" in various economies as much of manufacturing and mechanized agriculture is heavily dependent on the use of oil, for energy and petrochemicals.

Financial speculation has led to between $600 trillion to over $1.5 quadrillion in unregulated derivatives worldwide. Only a trillion dollars in 2008 from subprime lending was needed to vaporize over $30 trillion worldwide and lead to an on-going recession that has gotten worse. More problems are expected in the long run such that the IMF argues that the crisis will last a decade.

Global warming continues together with environmental damage, leading to almost $2 trillion in losses worldwide and high food prices. The FAO believes that a major food crisis will take place in 2013.

A combination of high oil prices, unemployment in various countries, and high food prices has led to more social unrest worldwide, including the Arab Spring, protests and riots in Europe and in Asia, increasing threats of war in the Middle East and in Asia, and so on.

[E.A Rumfield]

Good and bad are abstract ideas. You just live and you die and life is hard.

[Paulclem]

Good and bad are abstract ideas. You just live and you die and life is hard.

Don't you mean subjective ideas; one person's good party is another one's bad?

[stlukesguild]

The belief that Armageddon is just around the corner has existed across the ages. The only difference now that I can see, is that so many seemingly actually look forward to it just so that they can say "I told you so."

[Emil Miller]

The belief that Armageddon is just around the corner has existed across the ages. The only difference now that I can see, is that so many seemingly actually look forward to it just so that they can say "I told you so."

We know that the end of the world will happen at some point so, just before it happens, will there be someone saying: "People have been predicting it for eons and it never came to pass. ?"

[cacian]

The belief that Armageddon is just around the corner has existed across the ages. The only difference now that I can see, is that so many seemingly actually look forward to it just so that they can say "I told you so."

Ay there is no smoke without fire or so they say.
I wonder how much of this is true.

[cacian]

Good and bad are abstract ideas. You just live and you die and life is hard.

Just like an pessimist who tries to win over an optimist.
The issue is that one does exists without the other and so instead of letting one rely on the other why not convule them into a third something and get rid off them all together. It is the only way.

[Emil Miller]

Just like an pessimist who tries to win over an optimist.
The issue is that one does exists without the other and so instead of letting one rely on the other why not convule them into a third something and get rid off them all together. It is the only way.

Hmm ....'convule into a third something'. Cacian, in reading your posts, I think you are one of the few people who could crack Finnegan's Wake at a single reading.