does intelligence win over evil?

[cacian]

In other words would a truly intelligent being ever commit a heneous crime?
If the answer is not then we must redefine the definition of intelligence.
If the answer is yes then intelligence is being underlooked.

[Rainyhawaii]

Yes. Intelligence is the means by which a person can accomplish their goals. Emotions, experiences, and how one perceives the world is what guides whether or not someone is bound to do good or bad. I don't believe that being truly intelligent is what determines whether a person does good or bad.

If someone kills your family when you're a child (too young to be truly intelligent) then you harbour some evil grudge. This grudge could then go on to motivate you to become smart enough to kill all your enemies, the people who slaughtered your family without anyone knowing. Intelligence is the means by which we accomplish things, not the factor that tells us what to do.

If intelligence solely guided our thought process then there would be no point in having emotions and (theoretically) different perceptions on the same things in the same circumstances.

[stlukesguild]

Intelligence has nothing to do with morality or questions of "good" and "evil". You have undoubtedly heard of the term "evil genius." I don't see why the fact that an individual could be incredibly intelligent and put his or her intelligence into the service of morally questionable... "evil" acts would demand that we rethink the definition of "intelligence". Perhaps you need to rethink your definition.

[MorpheusSandman]

On an individual level, I don't think intelligence necessarily exists in proportion to morality, but I'm guessing that as societies gain in average intelligence, the breadth of their morality extends, if only because most of the reasons behind immoral actions start to be examined more carefully.

[Volya]

Intelligence is nothing to do with morals. However an evil genius can probably do more evil than an evil idiot...

[cacian]

Intelligence is nothing to do with morals. However an evil genius can probably do more evil than an evil idiot...

I don't know what an evil genius is. I have never met one.


On an individual level, I don't think intelligence necessarily exists in proportion to morality, but I'm guessing that as societies gain in average intelligence, the breadth of their morality extends, if only because most of the reasons behind immoral actions start to be examined more carefully.

Indeed I totally agree. You do raise a good point and that is to question immorality and what it actually means.
I can imagine a low scoring intelligent being as evil as high scoring one. Where does that leave us in terms of what intelligence actually entails?

[stlukesguild]

Where does that leave us in terms of what intelligence actually entails?

It leaves us facing the reality that intelligence and what one uses this intelligence for are not one and the same thing.

[MarkBastable]

.....as societies gain in average intelligence, the breadth of their morality extends.....

What makes you think that societies gain in average intelligence? As far as I know, there's no evidence to suggest it. We are, on average, no more intelligent than the Romans, the Vikings, the Incas or the Visigoths. We might be better informed, and we might have access to more knowledge, but there's no objective reason to believe we're more intelligent.

[cacian]

Where does that leave us in terms of what intelligence actually entails?

It leaves us facing the reality that intelligence and what one uses this intelligence for are not one and the same thing.

I don't know I think objectively intelligence is a positive force that is utilised to solve rather then dissolve.
If someone with a low scoring IQ is able to commit a crime alongside someone with the a higher IQ then something is not right.
Intelligence is determined through deeds and not through numbers.
How well did I do is not intelligence.
What did I do is.

[MorpheusSandman]

What makes you think that societies gain in average intelligence? Well, millions of years of an evolving brain guarantees we gained in average intelligence somewhere along the line... exactly where along that line is anyone's guess. The standard IQ tests we have only go back to the beginning of the 20th century so it's impossible to know on that standard. Anyway, perhaps you're right that it's more about the gaining of and access to more information and knowledge.

[stlukesguild]

I don't know I think objectively intelligence is a positive force that is utilised to solve rather then dissolve.
If someone with a low scoring IQ is able to commit a crime alongside someone with the a higher IQ then something is not right.

What is not right is your interpretation of "intelligence". Again, intelligence has nothing whatsoever to do with achievement... or morality.

Intelligence is determined through deeds and not through numbers.

No... it isn't. A person could be highly intelligent and stuck working in some mindless physical labor job. A lawyer can be highly intelligent, and use his intellect in order to find tax loopholes for corporations or defend well-heeled clients that he knows are guilty. A scientist might be highly intelligent and spend his days laboring upon the development of weapons delivery systems or biological warfare research for the military. By the same token, someone of average intelligence or less might be the most sympathetic, empathetic and caring individual... or incredibly successful due to a high level of self-discipline, motivation... and catching the right breaks.

[Alexander III]

The SS incharge of concentration camps must have been very intelligent, at least their leaders. The holocaust is from a logistics and technological and inovation point of view one of the greatest accomplishments of the last century. Had the Nazi leadership been stupid the words oven and jew could still be used to this day in the same sentence without worry of offense. But they were intelligent. nI fact I am quite sure that stupid people are the most moral, not so much because they are pure hearted but rather regardless of how dark their souls are they could not successfully act on those desires.

I suppose an interesting talking point is if the communist and fascist crimes against humanity could have ever occurred had it not been for the victorian ideal of educating the masses and attempting to nourish intelligence in all strata of society even in those who were economically unfortunate. "Let us take people who hate the system because they are at the bottom of it, and give them sufficient education to rebel and implement a new order, but only after having ensured that they are irredeemably mentally damaged on account of trauma from the deadliest and most artificial and inhuman war ever." - genius.

[MarkBastable]

I don't know I think objectively intelligence is a positive force that is utilised to solve rather then dissolve.
If someone with a low scoring IQ is able to commit a crime alongside someone with the a higher IQ then something is not right.

What is not right is your interpretation of "intelligence". Again, intelligence has nothing whatsoever to do with achievement... or morality.

Intelligence is determined through deeds and not through numbers.

No... it isn't. A person could be highly intelligent and stuck working in some mindless physical labor job. A lawyer can be highly intelligent, and use his intellect in order to find tax loopholes for corporations or defend well-heeled clients that he knows are guilty. A scientist might be highly intelligent and spend his days laboring upon the development of weapons delivery systems or biological warfare research for the military. By the same token, someone of average intelligence or less might be the most sympathetic, empathetic and caring individual... or incredibly successful due to a high level of self-discipline, motivation... and catching the right breaks.


Or, to put it another way, cacian, words don't mean what you decide they mean. They have broadly agreed meanings - because if they didn't, we wouldn't be able to use them to communicate.

If people make up their own meanings for words, it becomes very difficult to get ideas out of one head and into other heads. As you have demonstrated.

[Volya]

Or, to put it another way, cacian, words don't mean what you decide they mean. They have broadly agreed meanings - because if they didn't, we wouldn't be able to use them to communicate.

If people make up their own meanings for words, it becomes very difficult to get ideas out of one head and into other heads. As you have demonstrated.

And there lies the problem with most of these discussions... :crazy:

[Delta40]

psychopathic serial killers are usually highly intelligent as are charismatic cult leaders. While you may never have met one in the flesh Cacian, I'm sure you've heard about them.

[Emil Miller]

Intelligence is nothing to do with morals. However an evil genius can probably do more evil than an evil idiot...

But the worst kind is the well-meaning idiot, who thinks he's acting from a moral standpoint but actually paves the way for the evil genius.

[MarkBastable]

But the worst kind is the well-meaning idiot, who thinks he's acting from a moral standpoint but actually paves the way for the evil genius.

.....the irony is almost crispy in its palpability.

[Delta40]

.....the irony is almost crispy in its palpability.

Mmmmm crisps...

[Emil Miller]

As witness the, so called, democratic parties of the Duma in Russia that ushered in the Bolshevik revolution and those of Germany that similarly paved the way for the National Socialists.

Some know their history and, it would appear, some don't.

[Delta40]

you mean like plain crisps paving the way for smokey bacon?

[cacian]

you mean like plain crisps paving the way for smokey bacon?

Humm I like smokey but not on bacon is that to do with taste or something else?


Intelligence is nothing to do with morals. However an evil genius can probably do more evil than an evil idiot...

I nearly missed this. An evil idiot. New concept to me.

[Scheherazade]

I don't know what an evil genius is.


An evil idiot. New concept to me.





__________________

[Delta40]

I'm smiling as much as the next evil thingamagjig

[cacian]

__________________

Can I add ''evil as sin''?
Idiot and genius do not deserve the title of ''evil''.

[Delta40]

Can I add ''evil as sin''?
Idiot and genius do not deserve the title of ''evil''.

What must idiots and geniuses do to deserve the title?

Do you mean can intelligence win over sin or is there sin and then EVIL sin?

[cacian]

QUOTE=Delta40;1190106]What must idiots and geniuses do to deserve the title?

Hehe they must perhaps undo from being either and then consider being evil. Evil does not think it just does. An idiot all be it simple stretches as much as that harmless and a genius thinks a little and achieves big. Neither of these qualities share anything in common with evil.

Do you mean can intelligence win over sin or is there sin and then EVIL sin?
Lol hold on a minute I have to think about this :crazy:
Humm ....ok intelligence is an intellect and a sin is wrong due to lack of thinking/intellect. Evil is as a result of disinterest in reality. It is totally removed from it.
A sin can redeem itself but evil can't hence its name. Good however can give Evil a good spanking but intelligence can get rid of it.
Well at least in my mind it does.:smilewinkgrin:

[Delta40]

Have you considered that people, intelligent or otherwise, engage in acts of evil? Nobody is asking you to examine the reasons why Cacian, only whether people do.

[cacian]

Have you considered that people, intelligent or otherwise, engage in acts of evil? Nobody is asking you to examine the reasons why Cacian, only whether people do.

Oh yes I have and that is the issue I raised earlier. If one low scoring IQ individual is as capable of evil as a high scoring one then is this suggesting that intelligence is not what we think it is?

[stlukesguild]

Oh yes I have and that is the issue I raised earlier. If one low scoring IQ individual is as capable of evil as a high scoring one then is this suggesting that intelligence is not what we think it is?

You're getting warm, cacian. Now just eliminate that word "we" and replace it with "I" (cacian) and voila!:

"If one low scoring IQ individual is as capable of evil as a high scoring one, then this suggests that intelligence is not what cacian thinks it is."

[stlukesguild]

Have you considered that people, intelligent or otherwise, engage in acts of evil? Nobody is asking you to examine the reasons why Cacian, only whether people do.

Multiple examples have been given that counter cacian's assumption that a highly intelligent person cannot be or do evil:

"A lawyer can be highly intelligent, and use his intellect in order to find tax loopholes for corporations or defend well-heeled clients that he knows are guilty. A scientist might be highly intelligent and spend his days laboring upon the development of weapons delivery systems or biological warfare research for the military."

"The SS in charge of concentration camps must have been very intelligent, at least their leaders. The holocaust is from a logistics and technological and innovation point of view one of the greatest accomplishments of the last century. Had the Nazi leadership been stupid the words oven and Jew could still be used to this day in the same sentence without worry of offense."

The problem, as usual, is that cacian chooses to ignore anything that contradicts her own "unique" interpretations of history... whether it be Julius Caesar killed because he looked like a drag queen, Jesus crucified because he looked like a hippie, or the definition of "intelligence".