what hell does colour skin got do with dyslexic?

[zoolane]

What hell does colour skin got do with dyslexia?

These two quotes from thread and member, I will not name thread or member.

"Grammar is required for a spanish-speaking puerto rican who wants to learn english poetry. Wow! I thought grammar is not important. I see skin color in this one.

It's okay for a white dyslexic to be ungrammatical but not for a Puerto Rican whose primary language is Spanish.

My point is that their grammars should be considered in constructively critiquing their works, so they can advance in creative writing. There are brilliant writers in English who are dyslexic or Puerto Rican.


As far I am aware dyslexia does non-discrimination against persons gender;religion; language; culture or what country you were born or live.

It hard person learn and master own language and for those people learn other language on top, good luck and I hope succeed.

At moment person seem bring up a lot, me or anyone else on forum has dyslexic whether want other members that their choice. Could be mistaken for thinking this person is victimised people who have dyslexias on this forum.

[cacian]

Skin colour linked to dyslexia? That is just another craze someone decided to blog out to see one can get a reaction.
To even think that gives you an insight of what is really going in that person's mind.
Or maybe nothing going on actually.
What next intelligence ratio against height and weight?
There some crazy stuff out there not to be taken too seriously.

[Charles Darnay]

We really shouldn't be dragging this out......but the particular post in reference was not concerning skin colour but English as a primary/secondary language - albeit, poorly worked out.

But I don't think this forum has denigrated to such depths that someone would suggest a correlation between dyslexia and skin colour.

[zoolane]

OK try be quiet and sitting background while the other member go round with stereotype people on this forum. I will my thoughts and feeling to myself. As for posting any pieces maybe won't for while.

[hillwalker]

Certain people who jumped in with both feet on the thread in question didn't read the OP's original entry. It was about giving and receiving critiques for creative work placed on here for feedback.

My response to rosanna's poem was that it wasn't particularly good poetry. The rhyme was over-whelming and the poem didn't actually say anything.

The fact that she then proceeded to inform everyone of her ethnic background and how harsh she found my feedback is what has led to various members taking issue with how to handle those for whom English is their second language.

I have spent countless hours on here (in open forums and PMs) giving assistance and advice to writers from India, Pakistan, Iraq... and even England.

Grammar was never the issue - it was the lack of wit, the banality of the poetry and the (presumably) mistaken belief that poems are supposed to rhyme. One couldn't see anything beyond the infantile rhyming.

The fact that zoo has dyslexia doesn't stop her expressing original thoughts and insights. The fact that rosana is puerto rican shouldn't stop her expressing original thoughts and insights either. Patronising someone whose language skills are lacking doesn't make a bad poem good.

And for the record, English is also my second language.

H

[Charles Darnay]

OK try be quiet and sitting background while the other member go round with stereotype people on this forum. I will my thoughts and feeling to myself. As for posting any pieces maybe won't for while.

that wasn't my point.

[cacian]

Certain people who jumped in with both feet on the thread in question didn't read the OP's original entry. It was about giving and receiving critiques for creative work placed on here for feedback.

My response to rosanna's poem was that it wasn't particularly good poetry. The rhyme was over-whelming and the poem didn't actually say anything.

The fact that she then proceeded to inform everyone of her ethnic background and how harsh she found my feedback is what has led to various members taking issue with how to handle those for whom English is their second language.

I have spent countless hours on here (in open forums and PMs) giving assistance and advice to writers from India, Pakistan, Iraq... and even England.

Grammar was never the issue - it was the lack of wit, the banality of the poetry and the (presumably) mistaken belief that poems are supposed to rhyme. One couldn't see anything beyond the infantile rhyming.

The fact that zoo has dyslexia doesn't stop her expressing original thoughts and insights. The fact that rosana is puerto rican shouldn't stop her expressing original thoughts and insights either. Patronising someone whose language skills are lacking doesn't make a bad poem good.

And for the record, English is also my second language.

H

That's a surprise.
What is your first language?
You must have grown up to be fluent in English right?

[zoolane]

that wasn't my point.

I understand what your point, that it childish behaviour on my part to take debate but how else I am suppose defend myself.

[hillwalker]

That's a surprise.
What is your first language?
You must have grown up to be fluent in English right?

I'm a native Welsh speaker and was only taught English from the age of five. Not so you'd notice. ::):

H

[Volya]

I understand what your point, that it childish behaviour on my part to take debate but how else I am suppose defend myself.

Nobody is attacking you zoolane, you've misinterpreted what people have been saying.

[zoolane]

Nobody is attacking you zoolane, you've misinterpreted what people have been saying.

Well being not everyone but one person has brought up dyslexia in a thread which clear had nothing to do with dyslexia. Is it because answer the question in own my way? The member in question think OK to bring someone else problems yet again.

We know that I have dyslexia, I made no secret of it. This forum to Literacy not for learning diffcults forum.

[Volya]

Well being not everyone but one person has brought up dyslexia in a thread which clear had nothing to do with dyslexia. Is it because answer the question in own my way? The member in question think OK to bring someone else problems yet again.

We know that I have dyslexia, I made no secret of it. This forum to Literacy not for learning diffcults forum.

NOBODY is trying to discriminate against you because of your dyslexia. The person in question was just comparing having dyslexia to having English as a second language, since they will both impair your grammar.

[zoolane]

The point that dyslexia should of not being brought in to it, below is quote with out word 'dyslexia'.

"Grammar is required for a spanish-speaking puerto rican who wants to learn english
poetry. Wow! I thought grammar is not important. I see skin color in this one.

It's okay for a white to be ungrammatical but not for a Puerto Rican whose primary language is Spanish.

My point is that their grammars should be considered in constructively critiquing their works, so they can advance in creative writing. There are brilliant writers in English who and Puerto Rican.

[Volya]

The point that dyslexia should of not being brought in to it, below is quote with out word 'dyslexia'.

"Grammar is required for a spanish-speaking puerto rican who wants to learn english
poetry. Wow! I thought grammar is not important. I see skin color in this one.

It's okay for a white to be ungrammatical but not for a Puerto Rican whose primary language is Spanish.

My point is that their grammars should be considered in constructively critiquing their works, so they can advance in creative writing. There are brilliant writers in English who and Puerto Rican.

Dyslexia SHOULD have been mentioned there, because it is one of the reasons the OP posted in the first place. They posted because they were annoyed that some Lit-Netters seem to believe poor grammar is ok when a dyslexic is posting, but not when it is a foreign speaker.

[miyako73]

Zoolane, had you been Chinese or from Burma, these people would have dismissed you by now. C'mon let's be honest.

[miyako73]

To end this, my confession: I grew up dyslexic. I was thankful my parents, siblings, relatives, friends, tutors, and teachers corrected my grammar, spelling, word order early on. Even now, I use a grammar and spelling checker. A short novel takes me a year to finish. The printed words, sometimes, look jumbled. I don't welcome special treatment. Listen to Aunt Shecky. Grammar is important. Be challenged by successful dyslexic writers. They sure challenge me. C'mon open your mind. Try submitting your work to a small community paper for publication. Enough of this BS. You even joined one of the poetry contests here. The judge said the line that was ungrammatical "threw him off". Also, I try to edit and reedit and reedit and reedit. I don't use any excuse not to spell and grammar check and edit.

[hillwalker]

We're not all as fortunate as you in having a support network in the home that helped you overcome your dyslexia. Remember that and don't assume others shared your good fortune and motivation at an early age.

Grammar is vital if you're to make yourself understood in a conventional manner. I'm guessing zoo has no ambitions to write a novel anytime soon.

Poetry is foremost about revealing an original insight - about a feeling or place or memory that can be shared with the reader in a way that has perhaps never been done before. It gives the reader a new way of looking at things. The same goes for song. How many songs have been written about boy-meets-girl? How many continue to be? There are always fresh perspectives - and if they are valid and show originality they will be valued and appreciated.

Grammatical formalities can be stretched to their limits in poetry because it's so often about each word or phrase in isolation. If we sat down and parsed every single poem we would find most failed to follow accepted grammatical convention, my own included.

Many aspiring writers from varied ethnic backgrounds have posted work on here - and MOST criticisms have been about WHAT they write not HOW they write. That's partly due to the way English is taught as a foreign language overseas, and especially how poetry appreciation is taught. The English language has moved on from the 1800's and most on here can no longer stomach flowery, archaic, poetry cluttered with syntax twisted to fit the rhyme scheme or the meter. We're criticising the poem's style, content and execution not its grammar... and that's surely how it should always be.

As someone else wrote on here - why post poetry in a language you're unfamiliar with if you're merely looking to improve your linguistic skills? We're not here to give lessons in English, we're here to respond to your talent as a prospective poet.

H

[AuntShecky]

It would be nice if we could stop accusing one another of prejudice, whether it be toward ethnicity or learning disabilities. Also, we should resist the temptation to see such prejudice where none was intended.

Just for the record, many, many famous people (celebrities, if you will) were able to overcome their difficulties, writers included. A former and now-deceased, governor and vice-President of the United States came from a highly-privileged background, but even he had to struggle with dyslexia. Another successful American, a prominent TV writer-producer by the name of Steven J. Cannell has gone public with inspirational messages on how he was able to conquer dyslexia.

So--as the original post about LitNet responses and critiques, we all should try to remember not to take criticism -- especially on one's grammar and technique -- personally.

[zoolane]

I am glad that you had support Mikyo and Aunty,I was not try to get personal but I was tried make point. It seem at very point other people's threads I was brought into it threads which had other member started.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Zoolane: certain people on here don't shy away from saying purposefully hurtful things. Certain people on here occasionally seem to get pleasure from trying to be as mean to someone as possible. Certain people aren't above making fun of someone's disability; I know, because certain people have made fun of mine. It's best to just take comfort in the knowledge that these certain people are weak, pathetic people, and you are above them.

[zoolane]

Thank you for kind words Mutatis

[Volya]

Nobody on the forum has insulted anybody with a problem with language...

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Not recently.

[tonywalt]

I dont get this - there are lots of White Puerto Ricans. They speak of language issues. It's a nationality not ethnicity. I'm West Indian and I am White!