Fight.Now.(Version I)

[Jeos]

Inspired upon my experience on martial arts sparring.

120 beats per minute:
-Fight. Now.
It’s time to fight:
- Sky glide over your opponent
as an eagle around the prey
gathering power as a volcano
about to erupt
and when you move do-not-move
-but–slide, Silent & Invisible
like the passage of an archangel ...

it’s time to fight -
throw the body into the strife.
Hitting like an avalanche
there is none to strike - only striking
and a few minutes and a limited scope
have a bitter-sweet taste:
-The taste of Chaos and eternity and
above all the taste of Chaos ...

each time we give all we have
it’s as we had just come into the world
without unclosed scars
nor unhealed injuries…
smile flowing wings hatching
our eyes become again

the mirror of the soul…

[Delta40]

Jeos, firstly I would remove the colons, dashes and continued sentences and then see how your poem stands by itself. They do nothing to help or emphasize what you're trying to say and so only get in the way. Take them out and let your words speak for themselves.

My other suggestion is to personalize it. Make it about I rather than we. This would make the last stanza particularly more powerful when replaced with 'I'

[hillwalker]

Sorry, Jeos - but disastrously distracting punctuation aside - is it an eagle? or a volcano? or an archangel? or an avalanche?

I don't have a clue what you're trying to convey here. It left me wondering what on earth you were trying to make us focus on. Far too muddled.

And that closing line has nothing to do with the rest of the poem. It's a worn out cliche well past its sell-by date.

H

[Jeos]

Sorry, Jeos - but disastrously distracting punctuation aside - is it an eagle? or a volcano? or an archangel? or an avalanche?

I don't have a clue what you're trying to convey here. It left me wondering what on earth you were trying to make us focus on. Far too muddled.

And that closing line has nothing to do with the rest of the poem. It's a worn out cliche well past its sell-by date.

H

Thank you for having noticed my text and for your comments.
Now let's see:
- About what i'm trying to make you to focus on: so our fellow poet Delta understood it perfectly but not you...?
-Hillwalker the meaning is clear as crystal-water: it’s about what a fighter might feel during a fight…but instead of writing it in the first person I’m addressing myself to a fellow (but less experienced) martial arts practitioner. The volcan, the eagle,etc: Certain processes of collecting and/or expressing energy during a fight can be compared to natural phenomena or to the behaviour of some predators.
- Punctuation: any poem is susceptible of improvement still I remember you your own words - "there are no rules in contemporary poetry". Be patient and give me a concrete exemple .

Best

[Jeos]

Jeos, firstly I would remove the colons, dashes and continued sentences and then see how your poem stands by itself. They do nothing to help or emphasize what you're trying to say and so only get in the way. Take them out and let your words speak for themselves.

My other suggestion is to personalize it. Make it about I rather than we. This would make the last stanza particularly more powerful when replaced with 'I'

Thanks Delta.
You could have been an excellent martial artist for you had no problems with what I’m trying to make you focus on...So you are an adept of completely abolishing punctuation? Even "stops"(.)?Interesting...I'm going to try it, ...together with the "I" thing,why not.

[Delta40]

I mean only use that punctuation which is necessary. For example - : & ... do not give your poem any value whatsoever and are distracting. Your poem only requires commas and fullstops, perhaps an exclamation after 'Now' if that is the effect you wish to achieve. Another way to get an effect is to look at the format of the poem. Where your line breaks happen will make a difference too.

[Bar22do]

I got the meaning, Jeos, perhaps because I have some notions of the martial arts. However, I agree with Hill, "the mirror of the soul" is totally unnecessary here, especially as your poem's closure. I'd to without the repetition and therefore would leave out "It's time to fight" (L3). "Silent and invisible" don't need to capitalized, IMO and I prefer "and" to "&". Likewise, in my view, L10 doesn't add to your poem's flow. Try your poem without them. Only a suggestion, of course.
Delta gives you a perfect guidance as punctuation is concerned.
Thanks a lot for sharing, Jeos, greetings.

[Jeos]

I got the meaning, Jeos, perhaps because I have some notions of the martial arts. However, I agree with Hill, "the mirror of the soul" is totally unnecessary here, especially as your poem's closure. I'd to without the repetition and therefore would leave out "It's time to fight" (L3). "Silent and invisible" don't need to capitalized, IMO and I prefer "and" to "&". Likewise, in my view, L10 doesn't add to your poem's flow. Try your poem without them. Only a suggestion, of course.
Delta gives you a perfect guidance as punctuation is concerned.
Thanks a lot for sharing, Jeos, greetings.

it is for me to thank you - Bar22 (excellent rhyme hein). I'm already preparing a rigorous revised version according my filtering of all the constructive comments.

Best

[Haunted]

Thank you for having noticed my text and for your comments.
Now let's see:
- About what i'm trying to make you to focus on: so our fellow poet Delta understood it perfectly but not you...?
-Hillwalker the meaning is clear as crystal-water: it’s about what a fighter might feel during a fight…but instead of writing it in the first person I’m addressing myself to a fellow (but less experienced) martial arts practitioner. The volcan, the eagle,etc: Certain processes of collecting and/or expressing energy during a fight can be compared to natural phenomena or to the behaviour of some predators.
- Punctuation: any poem is susceptible of improvement still I remember you your own words - "there are no rules in contemporary poetry". Be patient and give me a concrete exemple .

Best

I saw your feistiness in the "when your through" thread and the sourness is carried into here. If you keep this up, it will hurt you in the end.

You can't expect people to leave you comments, and you certainly can't demand it, and then be sarcastic when they do.

People don't read everything, and we are not paid to write comments. Most only read what interest them. So take that as a clue. If no one is commenting, maybe your work is not that good or interesting enough to get anyone's attention.

So that leads to rule #1:
You can't bore people into reading your stuff.

OTOH you would get people to comment if it's really awful. That's reverse psychology and it's really not practical. Its a waste of everyone's time.

If there's anyone here who you look up to and he/she isn't commenting, you can PM or VM them and ask them NICELY.

And that leads to rule #2:
You can't denigrate people into saying good things about your stuff.

Rebuttals like "So our fellow poet Delta understood it perfectly but not you...? Hillwalker the meaning is clear as crystal-water" is just dumb. Are you trying to diminish the commenter? And you wonder why no one was commenting on your work???

Seriously why do you feel you have to pit one commenter against another? Just because Delta understands you, doesn't mean everyone will understand you. You need to point the question back at yourself: why didn't everyone understand it?

Reason: people are on different wavelength so there will be people who don't see it your way AND it's ok!

Another possible reason: Just because you think it is "clear as crystal-water" doesn't mean it is. You need go back and revisit what you wrote, tear it apart if you should. It's more productive to find another way to connect with them, tweeting or rewriting, than criticizing them. If you are totally comfortable with it, then stick with what you've got.

I really suggest you drop the attitude and instead focus on making your writing interesting enough to warrant comments.

[Volya]

I like the first two stanzas, and the third one was decent. I understood it all perfectly except for the final few lines:

'smile flowing wings hatching
our eyes become again

the mirror of the soul… '

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there.

I also echo Delta's earlier comment about removing some of the punctuation, it makes it harder on the eyes and doesn't add anything to it really.

[Jeos]

Thank you for your good taste and constructive comments, Volya. You know what's good, despite your young age.

[Jeos]

Woooaaoohh ! I will not waste my time replying more than this.



I saw your feistiness in the "when your through" thread and the sourness is carried into here. If you keep this up, it will hurt you in the end.

You can't expect people to leave you comments, and you certainly can't demand it, and then be sarcastic when they do.

People don't read everything, and we are not paid to write comments. Most only read what interest them. So take that as a clue. If no one is commenting, maybe your work is not that good or interesting enough to get anyone's attention.

So that leads to rule #1:
You can't bore people into reading your stuff.

OTOH you would get people to comment if it's really awful. That's reverse psychology and it's really not practical. Its a waste of everyone's time.

If there's anyone here who you look up to and he/she isn't commenting, you can PM or VM them and ask them NICELY.

And that leads to rule #2:
You can't denigrate people into saying good things about your stuff.

Rebuttals like "So our fellow poet Delta understood it perfectly but not you...? Hillwalker the meaning is clear as crystal-water" is just dumb. Are you trying to diminish the commenter? And you wonder why no one was commenting on your work???

Seriously why do you feel you have to pit one commenter against another? Just because Delta understands you, doesn't mean everyone will understand you. You need to point the question back at yourself: why didn't everyone understand it?

Reason: people are on different wavelength so there will be people who don't see it your way AND it's ok!

Another possible reason: Just because you think it is "clear as crystal-water" doesn't mean it is. You need go back and revisit what you wrote, tear it apart if you should. It's more productive to find another way to connect with them, tweeting or rewriting, than criticizing them. If you are totally comfortable with it, then stick with what you've got.

I really suggest you drop the attitude and instead focus on making your writing interesting enough to warrant comments.

[Volya]

Thank you for your good taste and constructive comments, Volya. You know what's good, despite your young age.

I dislike the arrogance that seems to pervade this post.

[hillwalker]

Thank you for your good taste and constructive comments, Volya. You know what's good, despite your young age.

You obviously appreciate when someone offers you flattery and embarrass those who offer it by pitting their opinions against those of us who find your efforts less than perfect.

- - - - -

Now the gloves come off (see - I also have an understanding of martial arts, grasshopper).

Unfortunately, I also lack patience with so-called poets who consider themselves so fragile and their work so precious that a little criticism here and there doesn't suit their egos.
Take it from a discerning reader - this poem is a disaster area.

Forget about rules - whether they exist or not. Concentrate on writing in such a manner that your readers can visualise what you are trying to show them. 'Crystal-clear'? You're making a fool of yourself.

- - - - -

The first line presumably refers to your heart rate - accelerating as you prepare for combat. It's a vivid opening.

But why the hyphen before 'Fight'? And why 'Now' also as a separate sentence? You're breaking up the flow - intentionally one assumes. But for two heart beats it hardly seems worth the effort.

Then 'It's time to fight' repeats what you have already told us - and it's obviously not a recognisable line of poetry so it can be dispensed with. Take us to the action instead of delaying.

Another hyphen - (preceded by nothing so it's unnecessary) then we get to the 'poetry':

Sky glide over your opponent
as an eagle around the prey
gathering power as a volcano
about to erupt

Now we suddenly have three images that bear little relationship to each other - but you've placed them in your poem to convey the stages a fighter goes through.
'sky glide' - is this supposed to mean a sky diver (someone who leaps out of a plane) or is it a creature gliding 'over' his opponent (in the sky)? I'm confused by the word 'sky' in this context. Then you tell us you are 'over' your opponent like an eagle 'around' the prey. Eagles hover above their prey - they don't go 'around' anything. This image could have been made clearer and simpler by something like 'glide like an eagle above your prey' if that's what you wanted us to envisage.
So far so good.

But then we have the new image of a 'volcano... gathering power to erupt'. Eagles don't behave like this, so we're supposed to erase that picture from our minds and focus on a volcano now.
That's why it's not working for me. You're not extending the metaphor of the fighter's graceful, predatory instincts like an eagle - you're drawing a picture of uncontrollable fury. So presumably we are now inside the fighter's head rather than watching his fluid movements. The two need to be kept apart because neither is linked to the other. The best way to do this would be to have them examined more closely in separate stanzas.

Then we are given some enigmatic extract from an oriental self-defence manual:
and when you move do-not-move
-but–slide, Silent & Invisible
like the passage of an archangel followed by an ellipsis.

It's rather amusing to watch someone create nonsense like this and expect us to take it seriously - but it's not poetry. Why are so many words conjoined by hyphens again? And where does an 'archangel' fit into this metaphor? It's ostentatious - and again not particularly poetic.

The next stanza repeats what you have already told us earlier:
it’s time to fight
followed by an awkward line
throw the body into the strife. - 'strife' in this context meaning the fight, rather than a general discord or conflict presumably. A strange choice of words. And again it reads like a set of instructions rather than a line of poetry.

Hitting like an avalanche

Avalanches engulf in an instant - they don't 'hit' so much as annihilate. An ineffective metaphor - and the next 3 lines that follow make even less sense:
there is none to strike - only striking
and a few minutes and a limited scope
have a bitter-sweet taste:

Then we have more bizarre punctuation:
-The taste of Chaos and eternity and
above all the taste of Chaos ...
This in my opinion is baloney, I'm sorry to say. Why you choose to link 'chaos' with 'eternity' I can't imagine - and neither have a taste since they are abstract concepts... I think you're trying to appear enigmatic but failing miserably.

By this time I realised you'd stopped writing about the fight and gone on some other trip who knows where:

each time we give all we have
it’s as we had just come into the world
without unclosed scars
nor unhealed injuries…
Can you explain what the underlined couplet means?

smile flowing wings hatching
Is this the eagle again - before it was a chick?
Anyone who can make sense of this deserves a medal.

And that closing pair of lines -
our eyes become again
the mirror of the soul...

If you think this is inspirational poetry than good luck.
As for your dwindling fan club - consider my membership cancelled. Your arrogance is breathtaking.

H

[Bar22do]

Your sense of your own (present) abilities as a poet, Jeos, may be largely exaggerated.

Hill is a gift for whoever is offered his comment here, whether tough or appreciative. We all learn loads from him. If you take his guidance you'll have a greater chance to grow in the field of poetry. He's been more than patient (and certainly generous) while analyzing your version I here, especially seeing your attitude.
Haunted is a wonderful poetess and the last person to get irritated. Your contemptuous attitude towards her honest, justified warning jeopardizes your chances to get read and commented on this forum.

I suggest you put aside your ego and learn from this experience.

[Silas Thorne]

Well, there's a bit too much prancing around here. If you do your Daniel-san crane-position meditation soap-box recitation in the middle of combat, turning into eagles and avalanches or whatever suits you, you are far removed from the heart of what you want to write about. Maybe if you have bullet time, have the abilities of some shape-changing wizard in the animated version of Sword in the Stone, are on acid, or can take time out for conversation in the middle of battle, like in a John Woo movie or in some Old English battle epic, then perhaps you could write about this kind of stuff. But this sketchy mess of disconnected lines is too removed from the reality of what you are writing about and makes too much of itself.

Is it a bitter-sweet taste here because you've been smacked in the gob after eating a bar of chocolate? Where is the sweat and blood?

[E.A Rumfield]

Well, there's a bit too much prancing around here. If you do your Daniel-san crane-position meditation soap-box recitation in the middle of combat, turning into eagles and avalanches or whatever suits you, you are far removed from the heart of what you want to write about. Maybe if you have bullet time, have the abilities of some shape-changing wizard in the animated version of Sword in the Stone, are on acid, or can take time out for conversation in the middle of battle, like in a John Woo movie or in some Old English battle epic, then perhaps you could write about this kind of stuff. But this sketchy mess of disconnected lines is too removed from the reality of what you are writing about and makes too much of itself.

Is it a bitter-sweet taste here because you've been smacked in the gob after eating a bar of chocolate? Where is the sweat and blood?

The summer after I graduated high school me and my friends used to hang around our neighborhood drinking smoking being delinquents. We used to buy weed from a friends older brother. Lots of innocent fun til we meet a childhood friend of his. An ex-Army Ranger, obviously deranged but it wasn't so obvious initially.

He came around with stories from his semi-profession kickboxing career. We all thought we were tough kids. That first night we meet it was myself, Justin, his brother Joe and Adam along with Al "PTSD" Foster. Al wanted to showcase his kickboxing skills and we were the dummies. I was the biggest of my friends so I was the first to involuntarily volunteer. That first kick, man it hurt but you can't show that.

Adam the runt of the group was the first to take a head kick. Justin was charismatic to stupid people and always managed to escape the toughest trials and I am sure he will for his whole life. After that we were all initiated and talk began of starting a fight team.

One of the first times we spared together it was after a big snow storm in a January deep freeze on a football field in the dark. I spared with Al and it didn't end well then and it never would. Adam and Justin spared and Justin won like he usually would.

After that we would practice everyday in my basement for hours a day and I went to the gym everyday anyway. In the mornings I was too tired to move. One day I was sparing with Al or Al was beating the **** out of me, he went to knee me in the face and he did but he also dislocated his shoulder so Adam had to drive him to the hospital.

Me and Justin would fight often and I would always win, Justin being a cocky ******* and me being what Justin thought he was but bigger and smarter. Not to say it was easy he always put up a good fight, he put everything he had into it.

Anyway I think eventually we all started to get tired of waking up bruised and beaten with rug burns. Justin was best at avoiding Al, me and Adam not so much. It got really bad when one day Al came to my house looking for me and started talking to my mother. After that it was over. No more fight team. I'm not sure how but we wriggled away.

Soon after Joey got Al a job working with a concert security company. Al soon gained a reputation for being unstable. Al would still call me every now and again to go to a strip club or get drunk or do some cocaine or something like that. Al lived not far from me with his aunt and uncle. He used to brag about how his father was a serial killer and how he had been executed by the state.

So many stories he told me I'm not sure that I can relay them all. Living in a trailer park in Gary, Indiana going on crack binges. On time he and a friend robbed some dudes van. Apparently he owed Al money. They smash the window and drive away. At the top of a very steep hill the car runs out of gas. So these two grown men together have maybe a dollar fifty in change so they proceed to push the van to a gas station down the hill. At some point a cop comes along and they think they are ****ed. Instead the cop asks if they need help and steers while they push the van. I also meet his younger cousin who was no less of a piece of **** but that is for another story.

Eventually Joey moved out of his mothers house into an apartment. Al moved in as well. It was always weird to see Al, by now I was fully aware of what a sick **** he was. He was trying to move his wife and children back from Indiana. One time I went over to the apartment with my friends Adam and Danny. Likely to buy some weed. Al handcuffed me, duck taped my mouth closed and held a gun at me. Apparently Adam had gotten the same treatment earlier. They did a little photo shoot.

Soon enough Al gathered enough of money to bring his wife out and once that happened the apartment went to ****. They were truly disgusting people. Filthy. I feel bad for his children when they grow up. Poor bastards.

I heard a story of how in Pocono Penn. Al ****ed a fat toothless hillbilly on the side of the road. Al verifies it with the utmost pride. Other people lived in that apartment on and off to help pay rent but eventually they lost it. Al moved back to Indiana and took his wife and children with him. That ladies and gentlemen is what mixed martial arts is all about. Mental illness.

[Silas Thorne]

That's interesting, but isn't this disturbing life experience/story a bit out of place here? Maybe you could put this elsewhere, yes, like a blog? And I've met a couple of psychotics in my time that did martial arts, but that didn't lead me personally to associate mixed martial arts with psychosis.

I was commenting on the poem. Did you have a comment of your own on the actual poem or are you just trying to turn it into your own thread? I think it's obvious from my comment above that I didn't like the poem, but still, Jeos put it here so people might read it.

[E.A Rumfield]

I just felt like sharing.

[Jeos]

Well, there's a bit too much prancing around here. If you do your Daniel-san crane-position meditation soap-box recitation in the middle of combat, turning into eagles and avalanches or whatever suits you, you are far removed from the heart of what you want to write about. Maybe if you have bullet time, have the abilities of some shape-changing wizard in the animated version of Sword in the Stone, are on acid, or can take time out for conversation in the middle of battle, like in a John Woo movie or in some Old English battle epic, then perhaps you could write about this kind of stuff. But this sketchy mess of disconnected lines is too removed from the reality of what you are writing about and makes too much of itself.

Is it a bitter-sweet taste here because you've been smacked in the gob after eating a bar of chocolate? Where is the sweat and blood?

Ok since you commented as a connoisseur I’ll allow me the time of comment on your comment … just to clarify certain points.
First there is a translating issue…if sometimes it’s relatively easy to translate and the result might be even better than the original, in other cases it is extremely difficult to avoid not perverting the original rhythm and content.Nevertheless,
Figh.Now. in another anglo forum, (the level of which is also good –trust me) however remaining controverse, was differently appreciated.
There are different kinds of contemporary poetry and I could send you a lot of (what YOU call)“disconnected” poems considered good poems from great modern poets - or considered as such.
“Well, there's a bit too much prancing around here. If you do your Daniel-san crane-position meditation soap-box recitation in the middle of combat, turning into eagles and avalanches or whatever suits you, you are far removed from the heart of what you want to write about. “
Of course you do not the “meditation” as you call it while fighting ! I did full-contact sparring so I know what I’m saying.
In the poem I’m referring to something subliminal, something that is already in you…you do not need to stop “to meditate”. Somehow but in a human way YOU ARE THAT.
If you are enough acquainted with martial arts history, you certainly know about humans inspiring themselves on animals fighting behaviour, in order to develop new tactics & moves , etc.
To make things even more complex there is another source of inspiration besides Asian martial arts: the ancient Western concept of warrior that could be personified for example by Achilles or by certain Celtic heroes as Cuchullain.

“too removed from the reality of what you are writing about and makes too much of itself.”
Well I suppose I still have the right of feeling like I feel when I fight…it’s like you are saying to me what and how I should feel…when you are circling (you know, there is circling, sidestepping, etc, that’s abt footwork) your opponent, feeling him (or her!) you are LIKE an eagle preparing a series of – ideally… - devastating attacks (avalanche) OR if your footwork is smooth enough, like…”the passage of an archangel” .
Anyway this is abt figurative language. If you want to write a poem on fighting just with things like” and then suddenly I felt a rush of fear” (which is a normal sensation) well it’s your right but I see and live fighting differently from you.

And why are you talking about reality? For God’s sake man, poetry allows you to recreate reality. Or in other words no one can dictate what reality is.

Summing up: fighting ,for me, can be a rich, epic and transmutating spiritual-tool ! In its own way fighting is a kind of intense meditation – there is no room for anything else, you have to be totally present…however in that presence can be much more than just Jeos or Silas (that body, that ego…)

“Is it a bitter-sweet taste here because you've been smacked in the gob after eating a bar of chocolate? Where is the sweat and blood?”

In Zen bouddhism some say that the taste of life is bitter-sweet…and what’s life but a fight ? But I like that taste like the one of high quality green tea. With regards to the sweat & blood…? Yes usually I sweat a lot and I could have written about broken bones...BUT WHO CARES ABT THAT?

To finish with it’s my opinion that in a poetry forum we do not need to be brutal, just honest. For it’s too easy to be brutal in such a context.