Jesus as a literary figure

[cacian]

I have been trying to gather a kind of a profile for Jesus as character rather then just a prophet.
Trying to find paintings of him before he died is rather dim.
It seems that there are only paintings of him after his death or are there?
Many qiestions come to mind

How old was he when he died?
Was Mary Magdelene a wife or a companion or a fiction?
There no ring on Jesus finger to show he was married.
Are there any frescos of him and Mary Magdelene?

[Raven Falcon.]

I have been trying to gather a kind of a profile for Jesus as character rather then just a prophet.
Trying to find paintings of him before he died is rather.
It seems that there are only paintings of him after his death or are there?
Many qiestions come to mind

How old was he when he died?
Was Mary Magdelene a wife or a companion or a fiction?
There no ring on Jesus finger to show he was married.
Are there any frescos of him and Mary Magdelene? I humbly think that that's a waste of time.

[Charles Darnay]

I don't believe you will find any contemporary frescoes of Jesus because (a) The people of Judea were not big on frescoes and (b) for the majority, Jesus was just some guy until long after his death.

Contemporary records of Jesus are spotty.

[cacian]

Hey thank your posts.
Is there a record of how old Jesus was when he died?
I believe he was 24 which would coincide with Christmas Eve.

[Whifflingpin]

He was 33

[stlukesguild]

I have been trying to gather a kind of a profile for Jesus as character rather then just a prophet.
Trying to find paintings of him before he died...

There are few paintings that have survived from before the Roman Empire (and even those are rare) outside of those buried in the tombs of the Egyptians. We have, for example, almost nothing from the ancient Greeks. Even if such paintings were made... which is doubtful, considering Charles Darnay's point that Jesus would not have been recognized as a figure worthy of portraiture at that time... the chance of such surviving in that region considering weather and the continual power struggles and wars. would be slim to none. The absolute earliest image thought to have been of Jesus is found in a bit of graffiti dating from between the 1st and 3rd centuries CE made by a Roman soldier to mock another soldier who was Christian. The "drawing," known as the "Alexamenos graffito" portrays a man (the "artist's" compatriot) raising his hand toward a crucified figure with a donkey's head:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Jesus_graffito.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Jesus_graffito.jpg)

The earliest images in homage of Jesus that I am aware of date from the third century CE and were as crude as those of the Roman graffiti as none were the product of trained artists:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Christ_with_beard.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Christ_with_beard.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Dura-europos-paralytic.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Dura-europos-paralytic.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Good_shepherd_02b_close.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Good_shepherd_02b_close.jpg)

Following the edicts of Constantine legalizing Christianity... and later establishing Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire, we find the first images of Christ made by professional trained artists (these date from the 4th century CE onward):

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_ChristPeterPaul.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=ChristPeterPaul.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_RavArchBpChapelXt.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=RavArchBpChapelXt.jpg)

How old was he when he died?

According to Biblical tradition, he was 33.

Was Mary Magdelene a wife or a companion or a fiction?

Again, according to the Bible, Mary Magdalene was a former prostitute who became a close follower of Jesus. Various Apocryphal texts put forth the notion that she was also his lover/wife (and even that they had a child) leading to Dan Brown's "brilliant" and "original" theories and fictions.:rolleyes5:

There no ring on Jesus finger to show he was married.

You are again making assumptions about the past based on contemporary traditions.

Are there any frescos of him and Mary Magdelene?

There are any number of frescoes of Jesus and Mary Magdalene... portraying the narrative known as Noli me tangere... a Latin translation of the Greek original Μή μου ἅπτου ("Cease holding on to me" or "Touch me not"). The scene represents Mary Magdalene reaching out to touch the resurrected Jesus while he pulls away and proclaims, "Touch me not, I have yet to ascend to my Father."

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_tangere.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=tangere.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_noli_me.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=noli_me.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_giotto122.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=giotto122.jpg)

The narrative is interpreted as Jesus suggesting that we not hold on to the physical... but the spiritual. Beyond the frescoes... there are also any number of paintings of the same narrative in egg-tempera:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_noli_me1.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=noli_me1.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Duccio_di_Buoninsegna-Maesta_back_central_panel_Noli_me_tangere_Appearen ce_to_Mary_Magdalene.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Duccio_di_Buoninsegna-Maesta_back_central_panel_Noli_me_tangere_Appearen ce_to_Mary_Magdalene.jpg)

and in oil paint. Indeed, perhaps the finest painting of Noli me tangere is the marvelous painting by Titian:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Titian_Noli_me_Tangere_1511_12.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Titian_Noli_me_Tangere_1511_12.jpg)

Ironically, I'm actually working on a variation of the same theme in my current painting.

[JCamilo]

Just a note, Stlukes, she is not a prostitute. It is, this part the feminists got wrong, a defamation taking advantage of the confusing reggarding Jesus protecting a woman and then Mary showing off afterwards. But she is not told to be the same.

And you forgot the recent and very well - faithful as see - restauration of Jesus image. We can make a movie, showing that painting actually shows the truth.

[cacian]

Stlukes thank you very much again this is most helpful.

About Nomi tangere I do not quite understand why Jesus wish not to be touched.
I am not clear on this bit here:
''Touch me not, I have yet to ascend to my Father."
To ascend to God as to reach God?

This painting is rather vague do you know what is actually happening in the scene?

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/Dura-europos-paralytic.jpg

Good with your painting by the way do you have any to show of your own?
It would be good to see them.

[cacian]

Just a note, Stlukes, she is not a prostitute. It is, this part the feminists got wrong, a defamation taking advantage of the confusing reggarding Jesus protecting a woman and then Mary showing off afterwards. But she is not told to be the same.

And you forgot the recent and very well - faithful as see - restauration of Jesus image. We can make a movie, showing that painting actually shows the truth.

Hi Jcamilo which image of Jesus being restaured?
I personally find the whole prostitution idea quite puzzling myself.

[cafolini]

I don't believe you will find any contemporary frescoes of Jesus because (a) The people of Judea were not big on frescoes and (b) for the majority, Jesus was just some guy until long after his death.

Contemporary records of Jesus are spotty.

Correct. Until the III century. The legend alone was hammered until there was enough paticipation for the setup to torture atheists.:nopity:

[cacian]

Correct. Until the III century. The legend alone was hammered until there was enough paticipation for the setup to torture atheists.:nopity:

Hi cafolini sorry I don't mean to jump the gun here but would you say that it is correct for one to assume all people were atheist before the main religions began ie religion as in believing in one higher being?

[cafolini]

Hi cafolini sorry I don't mean to jump the gun here but would you say that it is correct for one to assume all people were atheist before the main religions began ie religion as in believing in one higher being?

Most likely, prior to Jesus, there were Epicureans who wanted to live with the Gods who were not to be feared because they did not transacted with the flesh. Perhaps a form of atheism.
Epicurus writings were destroyed, most likely by the Platonic proponents of degenerate art. The subject is involved. :driving:

[JCamilo]

Hi Jcamilo which image of Jesus being restaured?
I personally find the whole prostitution idea quite puzzling myself.

Here, in the link. As you can see by Stlukes images, the old lady is basing her art in the early representations of jesus:

http://www.inquisitr.com/309687/jesus-painting-restoration-goes-wrong-well-intentioned-old-lady-destroys-100-year-old-fresco/

[cacian]

Here, in the link. As you can see by Stlukes images, the old lady is basing her art in the early representations of jesus:

http://www.inquisitr.com/309687/jesus-painting-restoration-goes-wrong-well-intentioned-old-lady-destroys-100-year-old-fresco/

Oh I see. I believed this incident to be a kind of a joke, an incitement if you like on how some people are no Jesus followers.
I took it as a take on a the movie Mr Bean rather similar but for different reasons.
I know that Jesus had enemies and so I assumed the old lady is just another one of them.

[Lokasenna]

Oh I see I believe this incident to be a kind of a joke an incitement if you like on how some people are no Jesus followers.
I took as a take on a the movie Mr Bean rather similar but for different reasons.
I know that Jesus had enemies and so I assumed the old lady is just another one of them.

No no, this is genuine! Have you not heard about it? It was all over the news a little while back. It genuinely was so well-meaning but utterly incompetent old lady who was trying to do a favour to the church she had been attending for decades.

It is 100% real, I promise you. The link that JCamilo posts up contains a link to the same news story on the BBC - it's totally trustworthy.

[YesNo]

About Nomi tangere I do not quite understand why Jesus wish not to be touched.
I am not clear on this bit here:
''Touch me not, I have yet to ascend to my Father."
To ascend to God as to reach God?

This occurred after Jesus' resurrection. One way of looking at this is that the woman saw a ghost of Jesus or, since he recently died, had a "shared death" experience of him.

Normally, I think of ghosts as not someone that I could actually touch. However, I've heard that is not necessarily the case. Based on accounts Raymond Moody presents of shared death experiences, a vision of a departed loved one could be tactile even to the point of picking up the person having the experience.

What that means is that all of the experiences that Jesus' followers had after his death, including the experience of him eating, could have happened regardless of whether one accepts Christianity or not. Others have had similar experiences of their departed loved ones.

What I think you are looking for is evidence of Jesus that is not part of religious dogma, but about the person who lived at the time. If shared death experiences are something you can accept, then the historical Jesus generated massive shared death experiences in his followers after his crucifixion. That would be more than enough to start a religion.