Do Celts Have A Death Wish?

[MANICHAEAN]

Do Celts Have A Death Wish?

I was watching a rerun last night of the interview of Richard Burton by Parkinson. The former was asked whether Dylan Thomas, whom he knew, had a death wish that seemed to be part of a Celtic tendency. Burton was quite dismissive, along the lines of "That was the way he chose to go." It is noted that Dylan once told a friend, albeit while drunk - that he drank to reconcile the disorder outside and the order within himself.

Burton later in the interview went into the narrative of how he himself was at one time up to three bottles of hard spirit per day. In fact he reached the stage where he was told that unless he stopped drinking, that he only had three weeks to live.

Is there a self destructive streak in individuals of talent and is it more prevalent in certain races?

[Emil Miller]

Do Celts Have A Death Wish?

I was watching a rerun last night of the interview of Richard Burton by Parkinson. The former was asked whether Dylan Thomas, whom he knew, had a death wish that seemed to be part of a Celtic tendency. Burton was quite dismissive, along the lines of "That was the way he chose to go." It is noted that Dylan once told a friend, albeit while drunk - that he drank to reconcile the disorder outside and the order within himself.

Burton later in the interview went into the narrative of how he himself was at one time up to three bottles of hard spirit per day. In fact he reached the stage where he was told that unless he stopped drinking, that he only had three weeks to live.

Is there a self destructive streak in individuals of talent and is it more prevalent in certain races?

I doubt very much that people of Celtic origin are more prone to self destruction than others, there are plenty of examples of similar behaviour on the part of people with different racial or national identities, although there are differences between what's seen as acceptable in different societies. Dylan Thomas effectively killed himself while on a lecture tour of the US but he was well on the way to doing so anyway. Richard Burton is only one of many actors who hit the bottle in what seems to be a profession geared to producing dipsomaniacs. Of course, it's easy to criticize but the pressure those people are under is obviously of an order that would force many to seek some kind of relief. Their problem is that they have to suffer the fame in order to get the fortune .

[Lokasenna]

Speaking as a Welshman, I'd say the answer is no. I think some people have self-destructive tendencies, such as the people you mention - but I think that's a universal human issue, not just for the Welsh.

[cacian]

I doubt very much that people of Celtic origin are more prone to self destruction than others, there are plenty of examples of similar behaviour on the part of people with different racial or national identities, although there are differences between what's seen as acceptable in different societies. Dylan Thomas effectively killed himself while on a lecture tour of the US but he was well on the way to doing so anyway. Richard Burton is only one of many actors who hit the bottle in what seems to be a profession geared to producing dipsomaniacs. Of course, it's easy to criticize but the pressure those people are under is obviously of an order that would force many to seek some kind of relief. Their problem is that they have to suffer the fame in order to get the fortune .

Are we talking about the same Dylan Thomas?
It does not say he killed himself but died of pneumonia.

When I first got to know few Irish people I got told that Irish had the tendency to drink a lot.
I have been to Ireland few timrd and got to knowe a couple of close Irish friends who did major drink problems but whether that label as 'drunk' because of their nationality I am not so sure.

[MANICHAEAN]

Dear Cacian
A case in point was Jack Doyle, the Irish celebrity boxer, who perhaps you may not have heard of. He reached a peak, blew most of it on drink and ended up homeless sleeping on the streets of Shephards Bush. He died in St Mary's Hospital, a relatively young man.

[Emil Miller]

Are we talking about the same Dylan Thomas?
It does not say he killed himself but died of pneumonia.

When I first got to know few Irish people I got told that Irish had the tendency to drink a lot.
I have been to Ireland few timrd and got to knowe a couple of close Irish friends who did major drink problems but whether that label as 'drunk' because of their nationality I am not so sure.

If you google Thomas you will see that he was a heavy drinker and on the night that he died he had been drinking most of that day. Although he did suffer from various complaints, he was pretty much addicted to alcohol which led to his death.

[MANICHAEAN]

I remain to be convinced. Of all the races of antiquity, outside of Egypt, the Celts seem to have cherished the most ardent belief in the world beyond the grave, and to have been preoccupied with its joys.Cæsar writes: "The Druids in particular wish to impress that souls do not perish, but pass from one to another (ab aliis ... ad alios) after death, and by this chiefly they think to incite men to valour, the fear of death being overlooked."*The Celts were always prepared for that inevitable visitor. Death was seen as a great journey, a great adventure into the vastness of our own nature. Death was not seen as a thief in the night, as nature had prepared them well in her changing seasons and moods.

If, as I believe, one inherits characteristics of ones ancestors, are not Celts by predisposition, prone to such traits as noted above? Perhaps it is not so much a death wish, as a lack of fear in the concept of death when adverse times arise?

[Scheherazade]

Actor Robert Downey Jr said, during the trial for his drug use I believe, "It's like I have a loaded gun in my mouth, and I like the taste of metal."

I find it easier to accept one culture being more permissive towards addictions or substance abuse than genetic disposition determination.

[cacian]

Dear Cacian
A case in point was Jack Doyle, the Irish celebrity boxer, who perhaps you may not have heard of. He reached a peak, blew most of it on drink and ended up homeless sleeping on the streets of Shephards Bush. He died in St Mary's Hospital, a relatively young man.

That indeed is a tragedy.
Sometimes we do not really know what leads these people, any people, to let go of life in such a cruel way.
I find that destructive nature of such is already within the soul already eating away at the person and thus alcohol is just a quick mean, a novelty, to numb it and hasten its end.
It is easy therefore to point the finger and blame the drink and call one an addict but I think there is more to it then meets the eye.

I believe that substances do play a part in destroying someone's life but there is a deeper other element, a kind of a long ongoing suffering tragedy within the person that we do not know about.
Depression can eat way at the person's mind that the choice is often between a quick exist ( suicide) or a longer one by mean of substances which is the easier option.
Dellusions are addictive substances that help the sufferer forget but does not pull away the suffering or themselves on that matter.
I feel that our societies are quick to judge and slow to act in understanding and preventing human tragedies.
It is not about the alcohol or the addictions it is about what what takes us that the major issue .
I think we need to pay more attention to each other and learn to understand what causes us to destroy ourselves.
All of us ,big and small, play a part in being in what we grow up to become and who ultimately are.
The more time we spend understanding and learning about each others the more we gain from each other and less tragedies at a human cost.

[tonywalt]

Northern Europeans lean towards the drink heavier than say Southern Europeans - in my obervations and reading on the subject. This is a massive generalization, but I noticed this when young and Euro Railing accross Europe - the British and Germans use a vacation to really pi@@ it up. Nothing wrong with that. Whereas, in terms of volume of beer, wine, other - Italians simply did not drink to the same level.

Also, when I watch football games here at pubs, the Brits really hit it hard and the Italians spend most of the time chattering incessantly and nursing a glass of wine-maybe a couple.

It could be sourced from genetics, but I find the more tightly wound countries, like found in northern europe drink more to get drunk that the less wound Mediterranean countries.

[cacian]

Northern Europeans lean towards the drink heavier than say Southern Europeans - in my obervations and reading on the subject. This is a massive generalization, but I noticed this when young and Euro Railing accross Europe - the British and Germans use a vacation to really pi@@ it up. Nothing wrong with that. Whereas, in terms of volume of beer, wine, other - Italians simply did not drink to the same level.

Also, when I watch football games here at pubs, the Brits really hit it hard and the Italians spend most of the time chattering incessantly and nursing a glass of wine-maybe a couple.

It could be sourced from genetics, but I find the more tightly wound countries, like found in northern europe drink more to get drunk that the less wound Mediterranean countries.

Very true the more one is told they have less then 6hours to drink the more drunk they want to get.
Many drink to get drunk and many others drink because it is cultural and of course because of the taste or the tradition/occasions.

[Emil Miller]

Northern Europeans lean towards the drink heavier than say Southern Europeans - in my obervations and reading on the subject. This is a massive generalization, but I noticed this when young and Euro Railing accross Europe - the British and Germans use a vacation to really pi@@ it up. Nothing wrong with that. Whereas, in terms of volume of beer, wine, other - Italians simply did not drink to the same level.

Also, when I watch football games here at pubs, the Brits really hit it hard and the Italians spend most of the time chattering incessantly and nursing a glass of wine-maybe a couple.

It could be sourced from genetics, but I find the more tightly wound countries, like found in northern europe drink more to get drunk that the less wound Mediterranean countries.

There's quite a lot of truth in these observations and I believe that the Catholic Protestant divide has much to do with it. I have noticed in Southern European countries a tendency to drink more sensibly than in the North. Of course it's possible to point to exceptions but in general terms people living in sunnier climes are more laid back when it comes to drink than those living under sunless skies.
An Italian who had lived through our Summer this year would have been driven to drink no matter how devout he was.

[MANICHAEAN]

Which Emil brings us back to

"The Welsh are just Italians in the rain."

~ Nancy Banks-Smith (Attributed)

[cacian]

Which Emil brings us back to

"The Welsh are just Italians in the rain."

~ Nancy Banks-Smith (Attributed)

And ''the Irish just Spanish in the sun''?

[cafolini]

My mother never told me about these findings.

[Emil Miller]

Which Emil brings us back to

"The Welsh are just Italians in the rain."

~ Nancy Banks-Smith (Attributed)

Well they are often small and dark haired like the Italians and they both like singing, but weather wise the Italians certainly have a great deal more to sing about.

[tonywalt]

Many Welsh are of Celtic Iberian Descent. One of the migratory paths was the Shell and Fisherman migrating along cost of Spain, France, and Wales.

In fact in Asturias they still play bagpipes - it's quite close in DNA.