Dyslexic Editors?

[Hawkman]

You know how it is: There you are, paddling in nine inch deep mud and sheltering from the rain under a leaky awning on a trade-stand at a dirt track motor racing event, and you find yourself forced into uncomfortable proximity with another human being. (Well, mostly-human being.) In order to overcome the mutual discomfort and embarrassment concomitant with accidentally enforced social intercourse, and being British, one starts moaning about the weather. A fatal mistake. This gambit results in a deluge of personal information from the insignificant other, incorporating most of their life story, particularly their heroic battle against dyslexia and their endeavour to achieve a degree in creative writing. Not just any creative writing though, oh no. They are specialising in editing. The individual concerned, having found someone they believe to be a sympathetic audience, switches into transmit mode without leaving the unfortunate recipient room for a word in edgeways with which he might disabuse the transmitter of this notion

Now, I may be an intellectual snob—what am I saying? May be? No. I am an intellectual snob, particularly when it comes down to English language and literature, so I wonder at the egalitarian populist penchant for educating the masses and giving academic opportunity to those with learning difficulties. My personal feeling is that offering a place at university to someone without the basic tools and fundamental ability to complete the course successfully, deprives a more qualified individual from a place at an institution of academic study. Not everyone is equipped to be an academic, any more than everyone is predestined or equipped to be a motor mechanic or a plasterer. This does not devalue mechanics or plasterers, quite the opposite, but giving a degree in English to someone who has dyslexia, does devalue the degree for everyone else. These individuals also require extra tuition and help, which in some cases means that they don’t actually do their own course work. (empirical observation supports this statement)

This is what Wikipedia has to say about Dyslexia:

“At later ages symptoms can include a difficulty identifying or generating rhyming words, or counting syllables in words (phonological awareness), a difficulty segmenting words into individual sounds, or blending sounds to make words, a difficulty with word retrieval or naming problems, commonly very poor spelling which has been called dysorthographia (orthographic coding), and tendencies to omit or add letters or words when writing and reading are considered classic signs. Other classic signs for teenagers and adults with dyslexia include trouble with summarizing a story, memorizing, reading aloud, and learning a foreign language.” [My italics]

One would consider that an editor, dealing with poetry or prose would need to be able to ‘get’ rhyming and count syllables, as well as being able to summarize a story.

Wikipedia also has this to say:

“There is no cure for dyslexia… There are techniques and technical aids, which manage or even conceal symptoms of the disorder.” [Again, my italics]

On the strength of their degree, the dyslexic graduate may well get an appointment to a journal or publishing house and be tasked with assessing manuscripts. They might even get their paws on one of mine. Thus, potentially at least, my career is in jeopardy. If the publishing houses are all staffed by dyslexics, it might explain why there is so much utter garbage reaching the reading public. Well, there goes the neighbourhood! How many rejection slips have you received to date?

Now, I do not say that dyslexics should not be given as much help as they need to function in English on a par with everyone else. This is only just and fair. Neither do I say that dyslexics have no inherent worth. There have been, and still are, many instances where dyslexics have positively blazed in the creative arts, particularly visual and graphic ones. Plenty of room for dyslexics on fine arts courses, graphics, photography, etc. But I’m inclined to the opinion that an elite qualification in English isn’t really their forte. Be honest; as a writer, do you want a dyslexic judging your work?

[Delta40]

In short? No.

[MystyrMystyry]

Yes I do.

I've met editors that I wouldn't even want to share lunch with over a long distance phone call, much less have their dirty hands crawl all over my pages.

I've met dyslexics who are geniuses in ways that they don't even appreciate, in both interpreting and writing, and in a myriad of other ways.

Dyslexia isn't a mental disease, it's a minor affliction that affects a small part of the person's life - not every aspect and not to a great degree, certainly not to be confused with total illiteracy or self-important stupidity. I don't know about you, but I began life not knowing how to read or write, and I learnt how - partly by myself, but I'd have to acknowledge my teachers whose encouragement and charm helped me want to to get better.

I think your rejection slips are due not to quality of writing, but quality of editor - themselves probably a frustrated writer who no can do.

[Delta40]

A mental disease and a minor affliction? So you're saying that discrimination can be distinct then? That's a beauty MM. I have bipolar and can't speak to the taxpaying public atm. What a pity it isn't just a minor affliction....:sick:

[MystyrMystyry]

Oh Delta - you've only got bipolar because you're nutty anyway - who isn't?

I meant a serious mental disorder completely clouding judgement and ability to recognise right from wrong.

There are puzzles that require a mixture of mental dexterity, spatial awareness, and multi-tasking all at once, none of which I'm any good at good at. This makes me a lousy driver (definitely not a jet pilot!), but just in that matter in various small ways it's meant for monetary and social set backs, missed opportunities, and all sorts of frustration.

But it doesn't stop me driving, it makes me very cautious when there are other cars and obstacles around - and at least I've never had an accident.

Amongst us there are perfectionists, OCDs, and logicians - all people who want to be established authors - we're all a bit loopy and in millions of ways, but we still function to a degree in every aspect of life. I honestly don't believe that having an inability to consistently place letters in the correct order has any bearing on ability to read and interpret the quality of a text. I mean do you read with your eyes, or your mind?

I'm sorry that you have bipolar Delta, but I'd be sorrier if you were a deaf, blind, limbless vegetable.

Minor affliction...

[Delta40]

don't mind me MM. I'm at work floating around being totally useless and getting paid for it while a rehab officer finds a solution! I'd stick with poetry but I doubt it will bring in the same money...

[Charles Darnay]

I'm going to side with MM on this one. Dyslexia is a physical disability, and there are ways to overcome it. In short, there are ways to be a solid reader if you have dyslexia. In an age of explosive adaptive technology, the ability to physically read (transfer words on a page to your brain) is so insignificant when compared to the ability to process, understand, and evaluate ideas - all of which a dyslexic person is capable of doing.

[Shea]

When I was teaching high school English, I had a student who had quite a severe form of dyslexia. It affected him so, that he even had trouble simply writing letters (his handwriting was like that of a 5 year old). But this kid was brilliant. If it wasn't for the dyslexia, he would have done better in an honors class. I had to give him more time on assignments and test, but he would ace them every time. He was sincerely interested in the subject I taught, but I think he was more interested in history (which I tried to include as much as possible).

With that said, no I wouldn't mind having a dyslexic edit my work as long as they have a handle on the disability. I wouldn't want it to take any longer than it needs to.

Oh, and by the way, I never received any rejection of my work and that may have more to do with the fact that I chose to submit to a smaller publishing company who focuses on my genre. The aim of my writing is not necessarily to have a profound effect on my reader, though there is a "lesson" of sorts in my first work (hence the title "Harp Lessons"). I wrote it because it was in my heart at the time. I hope people find it artistic and entertaining.

[Buh4Bee]

It's not a physical disability, but a cognitive deficit that impairs the neurological processing of fluent retrieval of sounds and letters. It can be successfully remediated, allowing an adult to achieve a high level of success exceeding the limitation of a janitor's job. Some dyslexics have high IQs and can comprehend more than the average person. As for THIS young person being the poster child for all dyslexics is a bit irritating. Sounds like this kid has possible emotional issues, since the individual is sharing her/his whole life story with Hawkman, a complete stranger.

Here's a link to SUCCESSFUL dyslexics:

http://www.thepowerofdyslexia.com/famous-dyslexics/

[Shea]

Buh4Bee, thank you for that link! That was fascinating :D Ironically it made me think of when I was an admin for helpdesk call center. I had one guy on my team who was dyslexic. His work with fixing computers was pretty good, but the documentation on his tickets was abysmal. As much as I tried to help him, he never put forth the effort to improve and was eventually let go. He was the complete opposite of the student I mentioned earlier who did his absolute best to work through his dyslexia. :)

[Hawkman]

As for THIS young person being the poster child for all dyslexics is a bit irritating. Sounds like this kid has possible emotional issues, since the individual is sharing her/his whole life story with Hawkman, a complete stranger.



Actually B4B, this particular individual was pushing 40 if she was a day! She seemed to base her justification for being a competant editor on having criticised a book, written by a successful American author, about medieval York. As a resident of York she was voluable in her scorn of the author's grasp of the geography of the town and the local patois. Well, fair comment, I suppose, but as I don't know York particularly well, or for that matter remember the title of the book (or the name of the author) I'm not really qualified to judge either the story or the quality of the writing.

For all I know, this woman, who had so earnestly buttonholed me, might have completely got hold of the wrong end of the stick vis this book anyway. The point I was making was that someone with impaired cognitive interpretation of the written word is hardly suitable for the task of editing a manuscript. I didn't suggest for a moment that they didn't have high IQ's in other areas, and was at some pains to point out that in the creative visual mediums, as well as those requiring practical dexterity and problem solving, dyslexics can positively shine. Even if the condition is recognised and managed in an individual, it requires conscious effort to overcome it, though there is no guarantee that cognition of plot etc. is fully achieved by the individual. Besides, an environment with high pressure work loads is liable to stress the dyslexic, which will surely make their condition more dominant.

It's really a question of aptitude. Not everyone should be allowed behind the controls of an aeroplane and you shouldn't give firewater to individuals who don't have the genetics to metabolize alcohol. Dyslexics may well have lots to say that is worth hearing, but that's what good editors and ghostwriters are for, to help them say it. The last thing we need in literature is the blind leading the sighted.

There is a wonderful passage in "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy" in which a rather witty comment is made about actors with cleft palates reciting lines written by dyslexic playwrights. I can't help feeling that life is starting to imitate art, as dyslexic writers are now a fact, due to an egalitarian policy which basically says that everyone has a right to do anything, regardless of whether they should, or even have the natural ability...

I call upon you all, discard your politically correct conditioning and let common sense breathe the air of freedom.

Live and be well - H

[Delta40]

I love your wit Hawk and that was a great post.

[Charles Darnay]

It's not necessarily a matter of political correctness. Albeit generally speaking, but people with disabilities that don't affect their cognitive faculties have a good sense of what they are and are not capable of, and tend to avoid situations that they know they will fail horribly at if there is a consequence to doing so. Just like you say, not everyone should try to fly an airplane, and most people know that if they hijacked a plane and tried to fly it, they would probably crash the plane and injure/kill themselves. Likewise, someone with dyslexia will, by the time he/she finishes school, have a good sense of what he/she is capable of. If the person knows that they will fail as an editor due to their disability, they won't do it.

[Delta40]

Mmm nice reply but in a world of entitlement, some people don't realise their limitations.

[MystyrMystyry]

Maybe, but he seems to be willfully neglecting the fact that there are a multitude more writers who, with no dyslexic symptoms whatsoever, and even a tertiary education in literature, WRITE COMPLETE CRAP!

Perhaps proof reading is required of a dyslexic editor's assessments so that the Hawk doesn't read an acceptance as a dismissal?

We ar pleazd too except yore manuscript for publishing Mr Horkman.

reads the same forwards as backwards to me ;)

[Buh4Bee]

Sure, you're using the example of THIS woman with dyslexia to make a more generalized conservative point. The point I am making is that dyslexia does not have to limit or define some as a handicapped person in a free world. It is a lower level flaw, its like a tick, that can be suppressed if properly remediated and controlled. Under these conditions, someone with dyslexia can do many jobs that require interpreting the written language. To say they have an impaired cognitive interpretation of the written word, misses the mark. This woman can't comprehend and probably has some other learning disablity, like ADD that often accompanies dyslexia. But I won't jump to any further conclusions since you know her life story and might correct me, or a cheerleader might jump across my screen, cheering for who made a better point on this post.

This is what made me think she was a young person:

"their endeavour to achieve a degree in creative writing. Not just any creative writing though, oh no. They are specialising in editing."

[Hawkman]

Maybe, but he seems to be willfully neglecting the fact that there are a multitude more writers who, with no dyslexic symptoms whatsoever, and even a tertiary education in literature, WRITE COMPLETE CRAP!

Perhaps proof reading is required of a dyslexic editor's assessments so that the Hawk doesn't read an acceptance as a dismissal?

We ar pleazd too except yore manuscript for publishing Mr Horkman.

reads the same forwards as backwards to me ;)

Yes, well they're probably the ones who've been accepted by dyslexic editors...

Are you dyslexic MM? is that why you appear to be so personally affronted by the suggestion that a lack of aptitude should preclude an area of literary endeavour from colonisation by dyslexics, and feel it necessary to personalize your response rather than construct a logical argument?

B4B: well yes, nervous ticks can be suppressed, as can the symptoms of Dyslexia, as stated in the original post. However, I did point out that they are often aggravated by stress and pressure of work. True, there are varying degrees of severity in the condition, and someone with ADD as well as Dyslexia is unlikey to retain a position after graduating, with help. This kind of emphasises the other point I was making about the devotion of higher education courses to those with learning difficulties. True, I cited one example to introduce the subject, but the argument is based (in general terms, I admit) on the Wikipedia quote.

I can see why you might assume someone reading for a bachelor's degree might be in their late teens or early twenties, but there are a lot of mature students too you know. In fact, in this country, persons with diagnosed conditions like dyslexia are far more likely to be mature students than school leavers, as school leavers with dyslexia are less likely to have matriculated.

Live and be well - H

[Delta40]

But I won't jump to any further conclusions since you know her life story and might correct me, or a cheerleader might jump across my screen, cheering for who made a better point on this post.


Waving my pom poms for all and sundry :p

[Hawkman]

^___^

Good for you, Delta :D

[MystyrMystyry]

Well I see you tried to hastily correct your text within the tiny window of opportunity without being noticed. Maybe you?

No I'm not dyslexic in lit, just in a few other areas such as alluded to earlier.

An editor's job is not only to make cuts, but also to offer suggestions. There's an opportunity to argue your case as to why the cuts would be wrong, and why the suggestions would harm.

When I hear crap it's my duty to expose it for what it is.

Suppose they proposed a law tomorrow, backed by opticians - people who need glasses will henceforth be forbidden to read books because tests have proven that reading weakens the eyes.

Wouldn't you be a bit outraged?

What if:

Nor will they be allowed to drive or operate heavy machinery because we've arbitrarily decided that a well-sighted individual can obviously do these things better.

Where would it stop? You'd soon find educational opportunities gone completely. Some prime minister might come along and say that the foureyes can't be educated, besides which it's too expensive, and risky to even try. Leave them alone to stitch the serviettes.

Clearly that's not going to be the case any time in the near future as the majority of people need glasses, at least for some things.

But what if dyslexia was the norm? The idea that a dyslexic can't analyse and assess a text's worth would seem ludicrous to a parliament run by them, don't you think?

[Shea]

I agree with Charles, MM, and B4B. It’s not really an issue of political correctness. It may help you to keep an open mind. If that student of mine happened to decide, and prove despite the stress, that he was capable of being an editor and wanted to edit my work, I would have no problem with that. But if my former co-worker for some reason wanted to do some editing for me, I probably wouldn’t let him touch it since he couldn’t even handle simple writing on technical tickets.

You call yourself an intellectual snob, I happen to be a chocolate snob. But that doesn’t mean that Hershey, Nestle and even Godiva should stop making chocolate just because I think it’s not worthy of my palate. How do you know that there haven’t been dyslexics editing the very works you hold in high esteem? If they can and desire to handle the work, why shouldn’t someone with dyslexia be an editor?

Imagine someone telling Einstein that he couldn’t be a physicist because his dyslexia would cause him to buckle under the stress. :rolleyes:

[Charles Darnay]

reads the same forwards as backwards to me ;)

It is a misconception that dyslexics see things backwards. The letters are more jumbled, not backwards.

[MystyrMystyry]

It was to quell the fear of the OP, that their book may be accepted for all the wrong reasons...

[Hawkman]

Imagine someone telling Einstein that he couldn’t be a physicist because his dyslexia would cause him to buckle under the stress. :rolleyes:

What on earth makes you think Einstien was dyslexic? He wasn't. You shouldn't believe every crackpot piece of (mis)information published either on line or in print until you've verified it. You might want to check this out.

http://dyslexia.learninginfo.org/famous-people.htm

[DocHeart]

I bet all of the folks who are comfortable with the idea of a dyslexic editor wouldn't be equally comfortable with the idea of an airline pilot with bad eyesight. Even if plenty of assurances about the effectiveness of his glasses were offered.

[Buh4Bee]

I wouldn't want an incompetent doing a job they aren't qualified to do. I think that point has been made clearly. It is a matter of aptitude. It's also a matter of someone getting hired. Who is going to hire someone who is unqualified? You should be uncomfortable if the person doing the job is a moron.

But again, I'll say it one more time, dyslexia does not necessarily equate to one's inability to comprehend. By now, this is a moot point. I'll wave mine for the dyslexics, since I have to remediate them and I do take this somewhat personally.

[Shea]

What on earth makes you think Einstien was dyslexic? He wasn't. You shouldn't believe every crackpot piece of (mis)information published either on line or in print until you've verified it. You might want to check this out.

http://dyslexia.learninginfo.org/famous-people.htm

Oh, give me a break! I’m not a historian. You missed my point anyway. Fine, here’s a link from the University of Michigan.

http://dyslexiahelp.umich.edu/success-stories

Steve Jobs didn’t let some hoity-toity egoist tell him he couldn’t handle Apple because he was dyslexic.

[Buh4Bee]

This is a writer's (and reader's) forum, not a platform for educational celebration stories. I think the writer's perspective will remain as such. But since we live in a free world and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I take comfort in the fact that there are laws to control and prevent discrimination.

[Shea]

That’s well said B4B. I just get a bit indignant when someone, who believes themselves to possess a higher intellect, arbitrarily tells someone else they shouldn’t follow a dream.

[Hawkman]

Oh, give me a break! I’m not a historian.

Obviously. If you were you wouldn't have said this:


How do you know that there haven’t been dyslexics editing the very works you hold in high esteem?


You missed my point anyway. Fine, here’s a link from the University of Michigan.

http://dyslexiahelp.umich.edu/success-stories

Steve Jobs didn’t let some hoity-toity egoist tell him he couldn’t handle Apple because he was dyslexic.

This is irrelevant. Was Steve Jobs working in a publishing house? The subject under discussion is whether dyslexics should take places from more gifted English students on English degree courses and have editorial control over an author's work. Anyway, by this argument, a gifted dyslexic individual doesn't need an English degree to be successful. Steve Jobs was not an accademic. Had you actually read my posts properly you would have noted that I was at some pains to point out that I do not consider dyslexics to be wortheless and consigned to the vocational scrapheap.


That’s well said B4B. I just get a bit indignant when someone, who believes themselves to possess a higher intellect, arbitrarily tells someone else they shouldn’t follow a dream.

Well I can think of a number of individuals who should never have been allowed to follow their dreams, Hitler and Pol Pot for starters! But taking the statement as intended as refering to normal personal development, then yes, it's all very well to follow your dream, but following your dream should not necessarily give you the rights of high, middle and low justice over someone else's dreams or literary endeavours when you have dyslexia.

I can't help wondering if everyone who has argued so vigourously against my position in this thread is actually dyslexic. It might explain why they keep wandering off topic and misinterpreting what has been clearly stated, whilst resorting to snide remarks about someone who raised a valid topic for discussion. You disappoint me.

[Scheherazade]

~

W a r n i n g

Please do not personalise your discussions.

Posts containing inflammatory and/or personal comments will be removed without further notice.

~

[Charles Darnay]

I can't help wondering if everyone who has argued so vigourously against my position in this thread is actually dyslexic. It might explain why they keep wandering off topic and misinterpreting what has been clearly stated, whilst resorting to snide remarks about someone who raised a valid topic for discussion. You disappoint me.

I tend to go where the thread leads, not where it starts. But....



You know how it is: There you are, paddling in nine inch deep mud and sheltering from the rain under a leaky awning on a trade-stand at a dirt track motor racing event, and you find yourself forced into uncomfortable proximity with another human being. (Well, mostly-human being.) In order to overcome the mutual discomfort and embarrassment concomitant with accidentally enforced social intercourse, and being British, one starts moaning about the weather. A fatal mistake. This gambit results in a deluge of personal information from the insignificant other, incorporating most of their life story, particularly their heroic battle against dyslexia and their endeavour to achieve a degree in creative writing. Not just any creative writing though, oh no. They are specialising in editing. The individual concerned, having found someone they believe to be a sympathetic audience, switches into transmit mode without leaving the unfortunate recipient room for a word in edgeways with which he might disabuse the transmitter of this notion

Now, I may be an intellectual snob—what am I saying? May be? No. I am an intellectual snob, particularly when it comes down to English language and literature, so I wonder at the egalitarian populist penchant for educating the masses and giving academic opportunity to those with learning difficulties. My personal feeling is that offering a place at university to someone without the basic tools and fundamental ability to complete the course successfully, deprives a more qualified individual from a place at an institution of academic study. Not everyone is equipped to be an academic, any more than everyone is predestined or equipped to be a motor mechanic or a plasterer. This does not devalue mechanics or plasterers, quite the opposite, but giving a degree in English to someone who has dyslexia, does devalue the degree for everyone else. These individuals also require extra tuition and help, which in some cases means that they don’t actually do their own course work. (empirical observation supports this statement)

This is what Wikipedia has to say about Dyslexia:

“At later ages symptoms can include a difficulty identifying or generating rhyming words, or counting syllables in words (phonological awareness), a difficulty segmenting words into individual sounds, or blending sounds to make words, a difficulty with word retrieval or naming problems, commonly very poor spelling which has been called dysorthographia (orthographic coding), and tendencies to omit or add letters or words when writing and reading are considered classic signs. Other classic signs for teenagers and adults with dyslexia include trouble with summarizing a story, memorizing, reading aloud, and learning a foreign language.” [My italics]

One would consider that an editor, dealing with poetry or prose would need to be able to ‘get’ rhyming and count syllables, as well as being able to summarize a story.

Wikipedia also has this to say:

“There is no cure for dyslexia… There are techniques and technical aids, which manage or even conceal symptoms of the disorder.” [Again, my italics]

On the strength of their degree, the dyslexic graduate may well get an appointment to a journal or publishing house and be tasked with assessing manuscripts. They might even get their paws on one of mine. Thus, potentially at least, my career is in jeopardy. If the publishing houses are all staffed by dyslexics, it might explain why there is so much utter garbage reaching the reading public. Well, there goes the neighbourhood! How many rejection slips have you received to date?

Now, I do not say that dyslexics should not be given as much help as they need to function in English on a par with everyone else. This is only just and fair. Neither do I say that dyslexics have no inherent worth. There have been, and still are, many instances where dyslexics have positively blazed in the creative arts, particularly visual and graphic ones. Plenty of room for dyslexics on fine arts courses, graphics, photography, etc. But I’m inclined to the opinion that an elite qualification in English isn’t really their forte. Be honest; as a writer, do you want a dyslexic judging your work?

Actually this is pretty generalized, despite the specific but vague launching point.

When it comes to intellectual snobbery I am fully on your side. I spent a good amount of my undergraduate career grimacing at the "low standards" that seem to have befallen the beloved institution because university is no longer a place of higher learning but a requirement for any form of employment; at least that is what they say. Governments want to look good on paper, and a high number of students attending college/university makes them look good - so shove more kids in university. And give monetary incentives to the universities so they will allow in more students. Top this off with propaganda spread by parents and high school teachers saying that YOU MUST GO TO UNIVERSITY! Et le voila!

There are people in universities who don't give a **** about learning. There are people who made it through high school without even being to write a coherent paragraph, but having nothing better to do, found their way to the humanities.

These people tend not to be those with physical disabilities (Despite what Bar says, I am calling dyslexia a physical disability because the DSM-IV groups it with them). These are generally people who have had to work harder throughout their school career to keep up, people who did not have everything handed to them. People who have found ways to compensate for their disability. And I will reiterate, if you live with a disability all your life, you develop a good sense of what you can and cannot do.

I am among the first to support tighter restrictions on universities, provided these restrictions are based on aptitude and general intelligence, not finances or genetics.



These individuals also require extra tuition and help, which in some cases means that they don’t actually do their own course work

I don't understand what you mean by extra tuition: is it that everyone pays for a portion of disability services? As far as extra help - so do a lot of people. Most universities have tutoring services and the like. And what the hell is wrong with needing help? I consider myself an intellectual snob in regards to English, but there are plenty of times I went to my professors to work out an idea for an essay. Being smart does not mean isolating yourself from everyone else. As far as them not doing their own coursework, I would need to see such empirical evidence. I have heard instances of them having a note-taker, or using a recording device to take notes - is this not doing the work? Is using adaptive technology hindering the work?

To bring it back - if a person is able to properly absorb and comprehend the ideas in a work, then they are able to be an editor (at least, judged by the same standards as an "abled person". Aside from certain poetry, where the shape of the poem determines its meaning, does it matter how the text is consumed? What if it is converted to audio form? They could properly "read" the text without having to rely on their vision.

[Hawkman]

By "extra tuition" I mean an extra assigned personal tutor who reviews every peice of work before submission, and by "not doing their own coursework," I mean they have it rewritten for them! Surely you'd have to agree with me that if this amount of babysitting goes on throughout their course they are unlikely to be able to perform at an academic level once they leave university. Quite frankly, if final examinations were just that, rather than a last project that tops off an accumulation of marks for modules throughout the year, they'd be unlikely to pass. I've read dissertaions which were nigh on illiterate, but somehow their authors gained a degree.

The point I'm making is that space is allocated in universities specifically for students who would not normally pass an entrance exam. While there are mature students who didn't do well at school for basic reasons like overcrowding, poor teaching standards or just that they were late developers, there are those who through no fault of their own, simply won't be up to the work. As I said, not everyone is cut out to be an English major.

Nevertheless, there is a policy which determines that potential students, who would seemingly lack the aptitude, should be given a place at the expense of someone more gifted, so-called, "Positive Discrimination." Well it's still discrimination, isn't it, discrimination which is weighted against the potential student who would really benefit from the course. I have stated time and again that I don't regard dyslexics as second class throwaways of society. But they are not naturally embued with the talent which would seem to be a prequisite for a course of study at an academic level in English. Nor, I would argue, are they really suitable to be given an opportunity to be passing judgement on more accomplished witers of English. True, when writing, a minor degree of difficulty in spelling is easily taken care of by a spell checker on a word processor, but will they spot errors in a manuscript? At the speed necessary to process information from the page in a publishing house, are they really going to be able to fully grasp the salient plot details and identify sub-plots as essential parts of the narrative? Can they appreciate the complexities of metered and formal verse in poetry, can they spot grammatical errors?

I have already acknowledged that levels of severity in the condition vary, and have also stated that my posts are based around the generality of the Wiki quotes. But obviously someone with a degree in English is going to be a possible candidate for recruitment into a publishing house: If they are dyslexic, are they really suitable? Personally I don't think so.

[Shea]

Okay, well, I’m going to take the cue from B4B and accept that no matter what we say, you won’t open your mind on this. But I just have to point this out (there are other points to make but are not worth the trouble anymore):


Well I can think of a number of individuals who should never have been allowed to follow their dreams, Hitler and Pol Pot for starters!

You seem to have failed to notice that I qualified my statement with the word “arbitrarily." Just thought you should know.

[AuntShecky]

Old MacDonald knew no harm
living dyslexically.
Old MacDonald had a farm--
O-I-E-I-E.

and to whoever wrote this:


dyslexic playwrites

it's "playwright." The "wright" suffix means "maker," as in millwright or cartwright.

[Buh4Bee]

With a lisp, lisp, here, and a lisp, lisp there. Here a lisp, there a (Old Mac Donald tripped on the spit.)

[OrphanPip]

All I'm seeing is a lot of whining about a complete non-issue. If a dyslexic person produces satisfactory work then they are qualified.

John Irving is dyslexic, and has discussed at length the work he went through to overcome the disorder, and has been a successful writer for over 30 years.

I doubt most dyslexic students are receiving that amount of help from tutors, and most dyslexics in a university setting are likely to be competent enough at English that they most likely only struggle with reading speed, spelling, and handwriting. As far as I can tell from looking around, they can hire private tutors for proof reading, but proof reading services are allowed for all students. Where I did my undergrad there was a free proof reading and writing lab service open to everyone.

[cacian]

I keep reading DYSLEXIC as in DISLEXIC.

Is that dyslexia?

[Alexander III]

Lee Quan Yu the ex president of Singapore, the man who with an iron will transformed singapore from a nation of illiterate fishers into one of the dominant polis' of asia, a man who I admire and respect in equal measure; was and is heavily dyslexic.

I remember when I was little I was at a party with my parents and he was the guest of honor. He gave a speech were he said he was born in a time were people did not know what dyslexia was, by his teachers he was just deemed to be stupid and he was discarded into the "slow" schools. He could not do what the other boys did in 2 hours of study so he studied six hours. But he is a very stoic man and he said, I became the man I am today, despite of my condition, I am what I am because of my character. If nowadays, in a time where we know what Dyslexia is and we offer aid to those who have it, if they still fail to become men worthy of serving singapore well, it is not dyslexia which has caused them to fail, but their characters.

(while I suppose this speech would be deemed offensive in europe, Singapore is a country with very little political correctness. There is a culture of calling a thing by its proper name there, if an apple is green and a child is stupid, those exact words will be used. Until the apple reveals itself to turn red or the child intelligent)


Just wanted to throw that into the discussion. It was a speech he has often given in various variations, if anyone is interested I am sure it is on youtube. Also Singapore is an oligarchy not a democracy - if anyone was curious...

[zoolane]

OK consider I have characterizes of dyslexia, I have decide to put two penny worth in.

As a mature student, I went back college in 2010, and resit English Language, yes I got support from the teacher but every words of creative or non creative was mine. As dyslexic writer amateur I might add which fine by me. I see things different and explain them things different to someone without being dyslexia.

Yes to answer your question Hawk I would consider someone with dyslexia to view the my written and publish it but on understand that someone else with check grammar first.

I think important to give very writer chance to be creative and follow they dream.

[Volya]

I wouldn't mind a dyslexic doing anything at all they wanted to do, as long as they had the right qualifications and understanding of their job. They wouldn't be able to get a job as an editor in the first place if they couldn't actually do it.