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MANICHAEAN
08-14-2012, 05:16 PM
Aspects of England:

Having been away for what seems like an eternity from my home country, I was struck by the following aspects, which might also be of interest to those States side who might be thinking of visiting.

(1) Immigration:

I could not help being struck by the dreadful carelessness with which people are admitted into England.

"Do you want to know," I asked one of them, "whether I am a polygamist?"

"No, sir," the immigration official said very quietly.

"Would you like me to tell you whether I am fundamentally opposed to any and every system of government?"

The man seemed mystified. "No, sir," he said. "I don't know that I would."

"Don't you care?" I asked.

"Well, not particularly, sir," he answered.

I was determined to arouse him from his lethargy.

"Let me tell you, then," I said, "that I am an anarchistic polygamist, that I am opposed to all forms of government, that I object to any kind of revealed religion, that I regard the state and property and marriage as the mere tyranny of the bourgeoisie, and that I want to see class hatred carried to the point where it forces every one into brotherly love. Now, do I get in?"

The official looked puzzled for a minute. "You are not Irish, are you, sir?" he said.

"No."

"Then I think you can come in all right." he answered.



(2) Conversation on Trains:

My experience of travelling with a fellow passenger in a compartment of an English train. I should have known, of course, that I must on no account speak to the man. I should have let down the window a little bit in such a way as to make a strong draught on his ear. Had this failed to break down his reserve I should have placed a heavy suitcase in the rack over his
head so balanced that it might fall on him at any moment. Failing this again, I could have blown smoke at him or stepped on his feet under the pretence of looking out of the window. Under the English rule as long as he bears this in silence you are not supposed to know him. In fact, he is not supposed to be there. You and he each presume the other to be a mere piece of empty space. But let him once be driven to say, "Oh, I beg your pardon, I wonder if you would mind my closing the window," and he is lost. After that you are entitled to tell him anything that you care to.



(3) Government and Politics of England

Let us start with the House of Commons: for no description of England would be complete without at least some mention of this interesting body. Indeed for the ordinary visitor to London the greatest interest of all attaches to the spacious and magnificent Parliament Buildings. The House of Commons is commodiously situated beside the River Thames. The principal features of the House are the large lunch room on the western side and the tea-room on the terrace on the eastern. A series of smaller luncheon rooms extend (apparently) all round about the premises:while a commodious bar offers a ready access to the members at all hours of the day. While any members are in the bar a light is kept burning in the tall Clock Tower at one corner of the building, but when the bar is closed the light is turned off by whichever of the Scotch members leaves last. There is a handsome legislative chamber
attached to the premises from which the House of Commons took its name. The House is called together at very frequent intervals to give it an opportunity of hearing the latest legislation and allowing the members to indulge in cheers, sighs, groans, votes and other expressions of vitality. After having cheered as much as is good for it, it goes back again to the lunch rooms and goes on eating till needed again.

Looking around to find just where the natural service of the House of Commons comes in, one
is inclined to think that it must be in the practice of "asking questions" in the House.Whenever anything goes wrong a member rises and asks a question. He gets up, for example, with a little paper in his hand, and asks the government if ministers are aware that the Khedive of Egypt was seen yesterday wearing a Turkish Tarbosh. Ministers say very humbly that they
hadn't known it, and a thrill runs through the whole country. The members can ask any questions they like. One member might ask the government whether they were aware that herrings were being imported from Hamburg to Harwich. Another member might rise and ask the government whether they considered Shakespere or Moliere the greater dramatic artist.The government might reply that ministers were taking this under their earnest consideration and that a report would be submitted to Parliament. Towards the close of the evening a member could rise and ask the government if they knew what time it was. The Speaker, however, may rule this question out of order on the ground that it had been answered before.

The Parliament Buildings are so vast that it is not possible to state with certainty what they do,
or do not, contain. But it is generally said that somewhere in the building is the House of
Lords.When they meet they are said to come together very quietly shortly before the dinner hour, take a glass of dry sherry and a biscuit, reject whatever bills may be before them at the moment, take another dry sherry and then adjourn for two years.

The public are no longer allowed unrestricted access to the Houses of Parliament; its approaches are now strictly guarded by policemen. In order to obtain admission it is necessary either to (A) communicate in writing with the Speaker of the House, enclosing certificates of naturalization and proof of identity, or (B) give the policeman five pounds. Method B is the one usually adopted. On great nights, however, when the House of Commons is sitting and is about to do something important, such as cheering, or welcoming a new lady member, it is not possible to enter by merely bribing the policeman with five pounds, it takes ten pounds.The English people complain bitterly of the rich Americans who have in this way corrupted the London public. Before they were corrupted they would do anything for sixpence.

This peculiar vein of corruption by the Americans runs like a thread, through all the texture of English life. Among those who have been principally exposed to it are: chauffeurs,hotel porters, bell-boys, railway porters and guards, all taxi-drivers, curates, bishops, and a large part of the peerage.

The terrible ravages that have been made by the Americans on English morality are witnessed
on every hand. Whole classes of society are hopelessly damaged. Till the Americans came to
England the people were an honest, law-abiding race, respecting their superiors and despising
those below them. They had never been corrupted by money and their employers extended to them in this regard their tenderest solicitude. Then the Americans came. Servants ceased to be what they were; butlers were hopelessly damaged; hotel porters became a wreck; taxi-drivers turned out thieves; curates could no longer be trusted to handle money; peers sold their daughters at a million dollars a piece or three for two. In fact the whole kingdom began to deteriorate till it got where it is now.

Now the odd thing about this corruption is that exactly the same idea is held on the other side of the water. It is a known fact that if a young English Lord comes to an American town
socially the whole place goes to pieces. Girls whose parents are in the oil business and who used to call their father "pop" begin to talk of precedence and whether a Duchess Dowager
goes in to dinner ahead of or behind a countess scavenger.

Also it is of interest that somehow there always seems to be a peculiar interest about English political questions that we don't find elsewhere. The English, can always dig up some kind of political topic of discussion that has a real charm about it. One month you find English politics turning on the Oasis of Merv and the next on the hinterland of Albania; or a member rises in the Commons with a little bit of paper in his hand and desires to ask the foreign secretary if he is aware that the Ahkoond of Swat is dead. The foreign secretary states that the government have no information other than that the Ahkoond was dead a month ago. There is
a distinct sensation in the House at the realisation that the Ahkoond has been dead a month without the House having known that he was alive. The public who have never heard of the
Ahkoond bare their heads in a moment in a pause to pray for the Ahkoond's soul. Then the cables take up the refrain and word is flashed all over the world, The Ahkoond of Swat is Dead.

But when the English introduce a really large question as the basis of their politics they like to select one that is insoluble. This guarantees that it will last. Take for example the rights of the Crown as against the people. That lasted for one hundred years,—all the seventeenth century. In the US they would have called a convention on the question, settled it in two weeks and spoiled it for further use. In the same way the Protestant Reformation was used for a hundred
years and the Reform Bill for a generation.


(4) The British and the American Press:

This is where the greatest difference lies between the British newspapers and those of the United States.In America the great thing is to get the news and shout it at the reader; in England they get the news and then break it as gently as possible. Hence the big headings,the bold type, and the double columns of the American paper, and the small headings and the general air of quiet and respectability of the English Press.

The English newspaper is designed to be read quietly, propped up against the sugar bowl of a man eating a slow breakfast. The American paper is for reading by a man hanging on the straps of a subway, by a man eating at a lunch counter.

In other words, there is a difference of atmosphere. It is not merely in the type and the lettering, it is a difference in the way the news is treated and the kind of words that are used. In America they use such words as "gun-men" and "joy-ride" ; in England they prefer "person of doubtful character" and "motor travelling at excessive speed" . In America they call a murderer a "thug" or a "gun-man" . In England they simply call him "the accused who is a grocer's assistant in Houndsditch." That designation would knock any decent murder story to
pieces.

Hence comes the great difference between the American "lead" or opening sentence of the article, and the English method of commencement. In the American paper the idea is that the reader is so busy that he must first be offered the news in one gulp. After that if he likes it he can go on and eat some more of it. So the opening sentence must give the whole thing. Thus, suppose that a leading member of the United States Congress has committed suicide.This is the way in which the American reporter deals with it;

"Seated in his room at the Grand Hotel with his carpet slippers on his feet and his body wrapped in a blue dressing-gown with pink insertions, after writing a letter of farewell to his
wife and emptying a bottle of Scotch whisky in which he exonerated her from all culpability in his death, Congressman A. Tigg was found by night-watchman, Henry T. Smith, while making his rounds as usual with four bullets in his stomach."

Now let us suppose that a leading member of the House of Commons in England had done the same thing. Here is the way it would be written up in a London newspaper.


"The Grand Hotel, which is situated at the corner of Millbank and Victoria Streets, was the scene last night of a distressing incident."

"What is it?" thinks the reader. "The hotel itself, which is an old Georgian structure dating probably from about 1750, is a quiet establishment, its clientele mainly drawn from business men in the cattle-droving and distillery business from South Wales."

"What happened?" thinks the reader.

"Its cuisine has long been famous for the excellence of its boiled shrimps."

"What happened?"

"While the hotel itself is also known as the meeting place of the Surbiton Harmonic Society and other associations."

"What happened?"

"Among the more prominent of the guests of the hotel has been numbered during the present Parliamentary session Mr. Llewylln Ap. Jones, M.P., for South Llanfydd. Mr. Jones apparently came to his room last night at about ten P.M., and put on his carpet slippers and his blue dressing gown. He then seems to have gone to the cupboard and taken from it a whisky bottle which however proved to be empty. The unhappy gentleman then apparently went to bed..."

At that point the American reader probably stops reading, thinking that he has heard it all. The unhappy man found that the bottle was empty and went to bed: very natural: and the affair very properly called a "distressing incident": quite right. But the trained English reader would know that there was more to come and that the air of quiet was only assumed, and he would read on and on until at last the tragic interest heightened, the four shots were fired, with a good long pause after each for discussion of the path of the bullet through Mr. Ap. Jones.

In London glancing at the morning papers, one can get a first impression that the whole world was almost asleep. For example under the item called "Our Chinese Correspondent." it could be explained ten lines down, in very small type, that a hundred thousand Chinese had been
drowned in a flood. And perhaps another little item labelled "Foreign Gossip," under which is mentioned that the Pope was dead, and that the President of Paraguay had been assassinated.

Then of course there is the honour of having accepted and printed a letter to the Times on the most obscure of subjects, but no doubt strongly felt. For example:


To the Editor,
The Times,
London, England.


Dear Sir,

Your correspondence of last week contained such interesting information in regard to the appearance of the first cowslip in Kensington Gardens that I trust that I may, without fatiguing your readers to the point of saturation, narrate a somewhat similar and I think, sir, an equally interesting experience of my own. While passing through Lambeth Gardens yesterday towards the hour of dusk I observed a crow with one leg sitting beside the duck-pond and apparently lost in thought. There was no doubt that the bird was of the species pulex hibiscus, an order which is becoming singularly rare in the vicinity of the metropolis. Indeed, so far as I am aware, the species has not been seen in London since 1680. I may say that on recognising the bird I drew as near as I could, keeping myself behind the shrubbery but the pulex hibiscus which apparently caught a brief glimpse of my face uttered a cry of distress and flew away.

I am, Sir
Yours Sincerely
O.Y. Burton
(Ret'd Major British Army.)"

Emil Miller
08-14-2012, 06:01 PM
Aspects of England:

Having been away for what seems like an eternity from my home country, I was struck by the following aspects, which might also be of interest to those States side who might be thinking of visiting.

(2) Conversation on Trains:

My experience of travelling with a fellow passenger in a compartment of an English train. I should have known, of course, that I must on no account speak to the man. I should have let down the window a little bit in such a way as to make a strong draught on his ear. Had this
failed to break down his reserve I should have placed a heavy suitcase in the rack over his
head so balanced that it might fall on him at any moment. Failing this again, I could have blown smoke at him or stepped on his feet under the pretence of looking out of the window. Under the English rule as long as he bears this in silence you are not supposed to know him. In fact, he is not supposed to be there. You and he each presume the other to be a mere piece of empty space. But let him once be driven to say, "Oh, I beg your pardon, I wonder if you would mind my closing the window," and he is lost. After that you are entitled to tell him anything that you care to.



This is very amusing and not far from the truth. I was travelling by train with a female companion to a tourist location in China and there were a group of Americans seated opposite and adjacent to us who might have been travelling from Milwaukee to Chicago according to their loud chitter-chatter. My instinct was to avoid conversation but my Chinese companion,who now lives in the USA, couldn't resist engaging them in conversation.

Whifflingpin
08-14-2012, 06:53 PM
As the Frenchman said, "Un anglais, c'est le silence; deux anglais, c'est le silence; trois anglais, c'est un club."

Mutatis-Mutandis
08-14-2012, 10:05 PM
Uh, so why were you pissed at the guy on the train again?

MANICHAEAN
08-15-2012, 02:12 AM
Emil, Whifflingpin, MM

Although, it's changing somewhat, the English reserve is still something to be reckoned with, compared to the open demeanours of our European and American cousins. When I arrived back at London Heathrow on Sunday, I sat on a seat next to what I presumed was an Englishman, while I waited for my daughter to arrive with the car. After about two minutes, he must have felt that I was physically too close, rose and left. Not a word was spoken! Luckily I know my own people, but someone else might have been offended.

prendrelemick
08-15-2012, 02:48 AM
All you need to do is mention the weather.

MANICHAEAN
08-15-2012, 03:34 AM
We don't have pea soupers in London like I remember as a nipper. Nor even trying to choose the two weeks down in Brighton when it was not raining that year. It always seemed to be "a deep depression approaching from Southern Ireland." Now I find the UK weather so unpredictable and un-British!

Emil Miller
08-15-2012, 05:34 AM
As the Frenchman said, "Un anglais, c'est le silence; deux anglais, c'est le silence; trois anglais, c'est un club."

True, but an English gentleman's club will still be a place where silence is golden.




Emil, Whifflingpin, MM

Although, it's changing somewhat, the English reserve is still something to be reckoned with, compared to the open demeanours of our European and American cousins. When I arrived back at London Heathrow on Sunday, I sat on a seat next to what I presumed was an Englishman, while I waited for my daughter to arrive with the car. After about two minutes, he must have felt that I was physically too close, rose and left. Not a word was spoken! Luckily I know my own people, but someone else might have been offended.

There was a thread on this subject few years ago and I related the scene observed at a largely deserted airport lounge where two Englishmen sat, each behind his newspaper, and both ignoring the other's presence. The only other person was an Australian with a kangaroo T-shirt who was standing at the bar. Suddenly another Australian came to the bar, asked what part of Australia the other was from and within minutes they were drinking and shouting like a couple of sailors on shore leave. I don't think the English were best pleased.

Delta40
08-15-2012, 05:42 AM
There was thread on this subject few years ago and I related the scene observed at a largely deserted airport lounge where two Englishmen sat, each behind his newspaper, and both ignoring the other's presence. The only other person was an Australian with a kangaroo T-shirt who was standing at the bar. Suddenly another Australian came to the bar, asked what part of Australia the other was from and within minutes they were drinking and shouting like a couple of sailors on shore leave. I don't think the English were best pleased.

We found the English to be friendly and talkative at cafe's and pubs. Public transport? No Way! Mind you, they have no problem whinging on public transport (and everywhere else for that matter) when they're tourists!

Emil Miller
08-15-2012, 06:04 AM
We found the English to be friendly and talkative at cafe's and pubs. Public transport? No Way! Mind you, they have no problem whinging on public transport (and everywhere else for that matter) when they're tourists!

English reserve will be less likely in pubs where tongues are often loosened by alcohol but on public transport one needs to be wary as witness the reader's letter that related the time when he was travelling by train from London to Glasgow and found himself seated opposite a Scotsman who without ado introduced himself as Jimmy. Jimmy never stopped talking for the whole of the journey and had opinions on everything including the dishonesty of policemen. When the reader informed Jimmy that his brother was a policeman, Jimmy said; "Well you'll know what I mean then."

cacian
08-15-2012, 06:21 AM
As the Frenchman said, "Un anglais, c'est le silence; deux anglais, c'est le silence; trois anglais, c'est un club."

Hmm interesting.
I wonder what the English say about the French maybe something like this

''Un francais c'es du bruit, deux francais c'est moins de bruit et trois francais c'est du silence.''

I think they more less entertwine or rhyme.


Anyway I think people are people regardless of nationalities.
The point is that if you put a group of people of mixed nationalities together and were asked to identify who is who you would not be able to tell if they did not talk.
Stererotyping people into differences because of their nationalities is pointless because of the above example.

Hawkman
08-15-2012, 06:29 AM
"Seated in his room at the Grand Hotel with his carpet slippers on his feet and his body wrapped in a blue dressing-gown with pink insertions, after writing a letter of farewell to his wife and emptying a bottle of Scotch whisky in which he exonerated her from all culpability in his death, Congressman A. Tigg was found by night-watchman, Henry T. Smith, while making his rounds as usual with four bullets in his stomach."


They breed night-watchmen tough in America. Habitually continuing on his rounds with four bullets in his stomach would be far beyond the capabilities of any English night-watchman, who would normally be excused duties by a promptly obtained doctor's note as soon as he suspected that he had a sore throat. (In fact he might never have to work again if he knew how to work the benefits system.)

Actually, as far as I can ascertain, the majority of the indiginous population of Great Britain is now subsisting on benefits, as all the work is being done by immigrants for a fraction of the wage a true-borne Englishman considers his due. The fact that all the money thus earned is sent home to the immigrant's families in Bratislava explains why there is so little left in circulation. This is the reason the taxation system is no longer able to fund the welfare state. Personally I give it six months before someone has to wave a piece of paper in the house and ask, "Does the government know where Bratislava is?"

Historically, when society felt it needed a proper moan about the general state of things, we used to be able to indulge in a decent Civil War. There'd be a couple of knobs arguing about who should be ruling the country and you'd either have your side picked for you by the prerequisites of the Feudal system, or you could pick your own and declare yourself either a Cavalier or a Roundhead. I suspect this is the source of the Englishman's habit of reticence with strangers. You don't want to start a conversation with someone who might reveal himeself as belonging to an opposing party or religion. (Worse yet, you might discover that he's foriegn!) Doing so would mean you were honour bound to kill him. Even now one isn't supposed to discuss religion or politics at a dinner party, doubtless due to consideration for the servants who'd be responsible for mopping up the blood and disposing of the corpses. Sadly though, these days the Englishman is too soft to take affirmative action or a pro-active stance. These days he just puts up a tent and squats outside St. Pauls, waving some barely literate plackards scrawled on soggy cardboard. Not surprisingly, few take notice. Hang on though, didn't this idea come from America....

Live and be well - H

Helga
08-15-2012, 06:55 AM
When it comes to transports you should come to the ice, everybody avoids eye contact and never talk to each other. As a group we tend to ignore everyone around us unless we have had a few drinks at that point there is no way to escape.

Emil Miller
08-15-2012, 07:17 AM
Actually, as far as I can ascertain, the majority of the indiginous population of Great Britain is now subsisting on benefits, as all the work is being done by immigrants for a fraction of the wage a true-borne Englishman considers his due. The fact that all the money thus earned is sent home to the immigrant's families in Bratislava explains why there is so little left in circulation. This is the reason the taxation system is no longer able to fund the welfare state.



While this is an exaggeration, it contains a large grain of truth. This an American viewpoint which may be partial but it applies to imperial powers in general: not least our own.

The Danger of Living on Bread and Circuses:

Rome in the first two centuries A.D. faced a yawning gulf between rich and poor. The mighty empire built on tribute reached its geographic limits. Its economy created few exportable goods. Slaves acquired by conquest built most of its bridges, roads and aqueducts and took jobs in farming, mining and construction. As this cheaper labor replaced Roman citizens, idle, unemployed, hungry people filled the capital.

The Caesars created make-work and part-time jobs, subsidized housing and doled out grain. Even more, they found, was needed.

The emperors added holidays until, eventually, the Romans spent half their days attending gladiator games, public executions and chariot races. Disgusted, the satirist Juvenal accused his fellow citizens of selling out for bribes of “bread and circuses.” The Romans did nothing to prove him wrong, until two centuries later the empire was divided forever and Rome was sacked by Visigoths.

Annamariah
08-19-2012, 02:41 AM
When it comes to transports you should come to the ice, everybody avoids eye contact and never talk to each other. As a group we tend to ignore everyone around us unless we have had a few drinks at that point there is no way to escape.

Same here. You can have a bus packed full of people, yet no one says a word (unless someone is talking to their cell phone).

kiki1982
08-19-2012, 05:56 AM
Same in Belgium. It probably depends where (big city tube, small village bus), but in Belgium, even worse than in Britian, everyone wants at least his own double seat. And regular bus assengers for example have their fixed places. Here in Germany too, to the point where they will be slightly irritated if you occupy it.
On a Belgian bus or train, only when there are no more open 4-seat or 2-seat compartments left will people go and sit where someone else is sitting.

This is quite extreme:

As we were coming back from London on the train from Brussels to Luxembourg, my husband put our cases in the compartment across the aisle so he didn't have to lift them up or try and put them under the seat. The train is never that crowded. This woman gets on (I suppose the train is 'full' in that there is at least one person in every compartment) and asks whether those are our bags. My husband, surprised, asks whether she wants a seat and points to the two seats we have left in our compartment. She says, 'No because I want to read and things.' :eek: So my hubby had to clear the bags away for her to sit, alone, across the aisle from us.
Later, she did get two talking neighbours, however. Revenge is sweet :D.

I think this kind of behaviour is much much worse than the reserved and quiet but still civilised behaviour, even on the tube in London. When there is someone walking the wrong way, it must be a tourist :lol:.


All you need to do is mention the weather.


Indeed, mention the weather lately and you're off.

I have found English people also very talkative. Apart from maybe on public transport. I like it, because they keep a conversation going when I don't know what to say :).

But, in the words of a Russian church sociologist we met yesterday, 'Assuming that is all true, what is actually objectively wrong with it?' :D