the role of saints in religions

[cacian]

the difference between a saint and a prophet?

There are many saints across the vast religions but I am not sure I understand their roles.
Saint Valentin is one famous one.

[Aurbierre]

My memory is foggy, but the word saint varies from church to church... In many Christian churches a saint is anyone who receives salvation through Jesus, or anyone who's gone to heaven. In the Catholic church one has to be canonised to be regarded as a saint.

A prophet is regarded as a conduit through which messages (such as revelations) from the supernatural realm is spoken.

[cacian]

My memory is foggy, but the word saint varies from church to church... In many Christian churches a saint is anyone who receives salvation through Jesus, or anyone who's gone to heaven. In the Catholic church one has to be canonised to be regarded as a saint.

A prophet is regarded as a conduit through which messages (such as revelations) from the supernatural realm is spoken.

Hi Aurbierre and thank you for your post.

You mention salvation through Jesus. Do do you mean the act of salvation which presumably means saving someone from themselves which happened during his lifetime when he was alive?
The reason I ask that is because salvation needs to come directly from the propher himself and no others right?

About canonisation which symbolises an act of proclaiming someone whose deeds are deemed to holy to enter 'saintage' soon after their death and not before. I hope I am making sense.
So in other words am I right to think that saints themselves would not know they were actually saints because they are in effect dead?
In simpler words the comfirmation of their saintage is not fully confirmed because they were not there to receive it.
A bit like signing a contract only one signature is missing.

If then one thinks of communion where the priest hands out the bread and wine and the communed receives it by eating it and drinking it. This is a type of confirmation because it is given and received hence confirmed christian.
I once went to communion where a priest I knew stood there with a chalice full of wine during to obviuosly pass on but unfortunately he ended gulping it down in front of his congregation. The temptation was far greater then anyhting else going on around him.:)


P.S just noticing the word CANON and CANONISATION.
They are kind of similar in roots rather.

[togre]

the difference between a saint and a prophet?

There are many saints across the vast religions but I am not sure I understand their roles.
Saint Valentin is one famous one.

You start by defining the words:

saint (from Latin sanctus is "holy one." And what is being "holy?" Being set apart from sin and evil, perfect or sinless.

Who is a saint? Roman Catholicism teaches some individuals were worthy on their own merit or works to receive such a title. These they call "Saints." I (and the rest of Christendom) disagree. As we look at the Bible we read passages like "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and recognize no one earns or deserves that title of their own. Even St. Paul laments his own inability to stop sinning. However we also read how we are cleansed or made holy through the life and death of Jesus Christ. Holiness is imputed to all who believe. That is how the Bible uses the term "holy one" or "saint"-- as a name for all believers which emphasizes their forgiven and holy status through Jesus.


prophet is a spokesperson for the Lord. Yes a prophet often delivers a message the foretells events that the Lord is promising or threatening will occur. But while predictive prophecy is a part of their work/speech, not everything that a prophet says addresses future events. A prophet is charged with telling for, that is, speaking to the people on behalf of God. For this reason prophets don't choose their own profession, but are chosen by the Lord. Only those to whom he reveals himself/his will/his message are able to speak for him. Finally a prophet is expected to tell forth, that is, publicly proclaim, announce or herald the message they are given.


I'll grant that this may not be the only definition or even most common definition of these words. Yet it is what the Bible means when it uses them.

[Aurbierre]

Hi Aurbierre and thank you for your post.

You mention salvation through Jesus. Do do you mean the act of salvation which presumably means saving someone from themselves which happened during his lifetime when he was alive?
The reason I ask that is because salvation needs to come directly from the propher himself and no others right?

Hehe.. No worries.. I may not be the best person to discuss this as I am as heathen as you can have em, but the simplest way to describe salvation based on Christian text is simply the belief that there is a god, heaven and that you choose to follow the guidelines of Christanity using the bible as a text guide..

The whole aspect of Christianity is based on believing in things not visible and with the hope that you will get enter a perfect world that is not this world, so salvation is not regarded as a state occurring during Jesus' existence, but believing that he did exist and still does. So in mainstream Christian churches, saints are people who are still following god even today.


So in other words am I right to think that saints themselves would not know they were actually saints because they are in effect dead?

Correct, and additionally, canonisation is basically a formal process by indicating that a person is a saint. Now I'm trying to avoid treading on dangerous soil, but I do have my opinions as to who should proclaim someone a saint.. If there is a God (and am not a believer) but if there is one, I believe that only this being should be able to determine whether someone is a saint or not, because a saint in my limited knowledge should be someone who is pure of heart, and the heart is not seen my mortal eyes.

But then, as we are on the topic of canonisation, the same goes for the actual bible. The choosing of the actual books which makes the Bible required an official process, which I assume is the same as the process of erecting someone as a saint. But this is mere assumption. :)

[ZTay]

I would define it thusly:

A saint is one who upholds, and a prophet is one who delivers.

I've never thought about this before now, so I could easily be corrected, but it seems to me that all prophets are necessarily saints; because how can they deliver without also upholding? So, then, all saints are not necessarily prophets.

[cacian]

I would define it thusly:

A saint is one who upholds, and a prophet is one who delivers.

I've never thought about this before now, so I could easily be corrected, but it seems to me that all prophets are necessarily saints; because how can they deliver without also upholding? So, then, all saints are not necessarily prophets.

Hi ZTay good points.
I am guessing one has to be a saint to be a prophet absolutely yes because it makes sense but and however and as you said the opposite does not seem to be true.
Hummm there lies an issue.

[ZTay]

A possible solution:

Prophets are greater than Saints; notwithstanding they are lesser than the least in the Kingdom of God.

[jmanu86]

I understand that a Prophet is not a Saint (at least in Cristian catholic church); this is because, the religion (catholic) pays more attention to the New Testament; even though, they were holy and had a great spirituality, don't get to the altars. Whilst, saints had direct relation with God; prophets only carried the message.

[cacian]

I understand that a Prophet is not a Saint (at least in Cristian catholic church); this is because, the religion (catholic) pays more attention to the New Testament; even though, they were holy and had a great spirituality, don't get to the altars. Whilst, saints had direct relation with God; prophets only carried the message.

I undestood that prophets are the sons of God and saints are holy because of something they have done and are not declared so until after they have died. Joan of Arc for example.
Isn't the whole point of Jesus that he was related to God being his son?

[jmanu86]

I undestood that prophets are the sons of God and saints are holy because of something they have done and are not declared so until after they have died. Joan of Arc for example.
Isn't the whole point of Jesus that he was related to God being his son?

Jesus is the son of God; that's given. A prophet, I believe, is not always murdered to accept it's belief; therefore, is not always a saint. They're Holy, yes, but apart of being the messenger, they have never to do the same thing as a saint. In conclusion, both are holy, and live extraordinary lives to look after.

[cafolini]

Hard to answer this qestion. But they were many and mainly spiritual patrons. Everytime the church sought order in a particular region, they gave the people a patron with their characteristics and instituted it. They did this in many other ways. They needed spiritual patrons.

It would be interesting to obserbe the role of Saint Francis of Assis. He was most likely the inventor of Ecology-Through-Stigma.

[cacian]

Hard to answer this qestion. But they were many and mainly spiritual patrons. Everytime the church sought order in a particular region, they gave the people a patron with their characteristics and instituted it. They did this in many other ways. They needed spiritual patrons.

It would be interesting to obserbe the role of Saint Francis of Assis. He was most likely the inventor of Ecology-Through-Stigma.

How do you mean by
'sought an order''
and was there any reason why it had to be spiritual?
Can you explain a bit more about Eclogy-Through-Stigma?
Thanks!

[cafolini]

How do you mean by
'sought an order''
and was there any reason why it had to be spiritual?
Can you explain a bit more about Eclogy-Through-Stigma?
Thanks!

Well...we are adults. I think there is enough in Ecology-Through-Stigma for anyone to do a search and get to my context. I'm not getting entangled with discussing a lot of unnecessary detail for which I might have to play idiot.

[cacian]

Well...we are adults. I think there is enough in Ecology-Through-Stigma for anyone to do a search and get to my context. I'm not getting entangled with discussing a lot of unnecessary detail for which I might have to play idiot.

Very true let me research it and see if we can take it from there.
Right I did look at it up for it is worth and I must admit I cannot make head or tail of it. I have no idea what

Pollination and Reproductive Biology of Twelve Species of Neotropical Malpighiaceae: Stigma Morphology and its Implications for the Breeding System
I give up this is too dark for me.

[ZTay]

I was just reading and the guy put forth the idea that Prophets are pre-Christ and Saints are post-Christ. The Prophets paving the way for Christ and the Saints upholding that way.

[cacian]

I was just reading and the guy put forth the idea that Prophets are pre-Christ and Saints are post-Christ. The Prophets paving the way for Christ and the Saints upholding that way.

Sure but what is the principle role of a saint however?
It has not been made clear to what it is they do and how they come to be saints?

[WyattGwyon]

Sure but what is the principle role of a saint however?
It has not been made clear to what it is they do and how they come to be saints?


Since sainthood is an invention of the Roman Catholic Church, I guess it is their question to answer. According to the rules they apply, to become a saint one must have three documented miracles to one's credit and it is expected that one will have lived a morally exemplary life. Otherwise it is all politics and bureaucracy. There are special committees involved in the nomination and election of saints. I think martyrs are a special class of saints who may get a "by" in the bureaucratic rounds.

Among their functions are the patronization of municipalities and individuals. Every Italian town wants their own patron saint and it is traditional that the given names of little Catholics will be chosen from among the list of saints so that every Catholic has a patron saint, though I don't believe this is an inviolable rule. It is also generally accepted that saints have the power of intercession with the higher powers, sort of like lobbyists or congressional representatives. So, for example, a little Catholic boy named Patrick who wishes for better health might pray to his patron saint (Patrick), who, presumably, would in turn petition God the father or Jesus on his behalf to make it happen.

A prophet simply delivers the word or will of God to humankind. As they are allegedly chosen by God by criteria we cannot understand, there is no reason they must be morally exemplary or exceptional in any respect whatever.

Now if you want the cynical answer to these questions rather than "just the facts," I could try again.

[cacian]

Since sainthood is an invention of the Roman Catholic Church, I guess it is their question to answer. According to the rules they apply, to become a saint one must have three documented miracles to one's credit and it is expected that one will have lived a morally exemplary life. Otherwise it is all politics and bureaucracy. There are special committees involved in the nomination and election of saints. I think martyrs are a special class of saints who may get a "by" in the bureaucratic rounds.

Among their functions are the patronization of municipalities and individuals. Every Italian town wants their own patron saint and it is traditional that the given names of little Catholics will be chosen from among the list of saints so that every Catholic has a patron saint, though I don't believe this is an inviolable rule. It is also generally accepted that saints have the power of intercession with the higher powers, sort of like lobbyists or congressional representatives. So, for example, a little Catholic boy named Patrick who wishes for better health might pray to his patron saint (Patrick), who, presumably, would in turn petition God the father or Jesus on his behalf to make it happen.

A prophet simply delivers the word or will of God to humankind. As they are allegedly chosen by God by criteria we cannot understand, there is no reason they must be morally exemplary or exceptional in any respect whatever.

Now if you want the cynical answer to these questions rather than "just the facts," I could try again.

Cynical would be very good :D

[ZTay]

Saints are examples, that's their role. A kind of fellowship through the ages. Proofs.