Olympic Mania

[Emil Miller]

For those living outside London it might make a welcome break from the daily round but the disruption to traffic, both private and public , is going to be substantial and the hassle factor very high for a great many people.
Is such disruption worth it for a 16 day event ?

Here's London's mayor Boris Johnson in a amazing display of goading the masses into acceptance of what for many of them will be a difficult time just getting around their own city. I like the nationalistic references to beating France and Australia and perhaps even Germany. I wonder where he got the idea of such demagogy.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19006480

[cacian]

16 days only and it took more then seven years to plan?
I am not sure I understand it myself but there you go it is crazy and manic I agree.

[kiki1982]

The thing I saw about that road where the pedestrian crossings had been closed, did confuse me a little... I mean, are Olympic officials and athletes so important that they can't even stop for pedestrians? What do old people have to do, walk round a few hundred metres?

I do understand the idea of it (naturally, you can't have people stuck in traffic with an obviously tight planning), but maybe they should have thought about the location that these things were going to take place. If you do it in the centre of a city like London or Paris here congestion is already so bad, you're asking for trouble aren't you? It's a great idea, because it's obviously more inclusive for everyone, but major disruption in this way is not good for anyone.
I am also of the opinion that an event (small or big) should not disrupt the existence of those who are not interested or have to do other things.

Tell me, those who are there, is publi transport bad? Because we're going to the second day of the Modern Pentathlon in Greenwich Park and we are staying somewhere in Kew. At my request, because we were firstly going to stay in Gravesend with friends. I thought it was a good idea to have the option of taking a Boris bike, if necessary. Not such a stupid idea, I see.

[Emil Miller]

The thing I saw about that road where the pedestrian crossings had been closed, did confuse me a little... I mean, are Olympic officials and athletes so important that they can't even stop for pedestrians? What do old people have to do, walk round a few hundred metres?

I do understand the idea of it (naturally, you can't have people stuck in traffic with an obviously tight planning), but maybe they should have thought about the location that these things were going to take place. If you do it in the centre of a city like London or Paris here congestion is already so bad, you're asking for trouble aren't you? It's a great idea, because it's obviously more inclusive for everyone, but major disruption in this way is not good for anyone.
I am also of the opinion that an event (small or big) should not disrupt the existence of those who are not interested or have to do other things.

Tell me, those who are there, is public transport bad? Because we're going to the second day of the Modern Pentathlon in Greenwich Park and we are staying somewhere in Kew. At my request, because we were firstly going to stay in Gravesend with friends. I thought it was a good idea to have the option of taking a Boris bike, if necessary. Not such a stupid idea, I see.

Moving around London has a distinctly Orwellian flavour due to the constant loudspeaker reminders on train platforms and on trains about not going into London unless it's necessary during the games and that alternative routes should be taken to avoid delays. Bus routes outside London are also affected in areas where some Olympic event is taking part and cyclists will not have access to certain major roads during the cycling event.
I have nothing against the concept of the Olympics even though I have no interest in them but there is no doubt that a large number of people will be inconvenienced as a result of them being held in London. Boris bikes are plentiful and a good idea for getting about but it may be necessary to find out where and when they are restricted.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

So, what, the rest of the world is supposed to feel sorry for the British?

I hear you guys are doing a bang-up job organizing the whole thing.

[prendrelemick]

Watching the opening ceremony.

Love it
Love it
Love it

It's true, we are bonkers!

[Paulclem]

Me too. The opening ceremony has been brilliant.

[OrphanPip]

A lot of people were ****ting on Danny Boyle before the ceremony even began, but I thought he did a pretty good job. The rings were cool too. Some things were a little awkward, but I think that has to do with the way pageantry doesn't always translate well to television even though it works quite well in person.

[Paulclem]

They were. The rings sequence and the comedy bits were great. I thought the NHS and children's literature bits were good too.

I particularly liked the jumping punks.

[TheFifthElement]

It's been brilliant, hats off to Danny Boyle.

Officially the best moment of the ceremony: on come team GB to rapturous applause. Camera pans to the Queen who is studiously picking dirt out of her fingernails. Class.

Rowan Atkinson. Inspired.

The Children's lit & NHS mash up was nicely done.

And by all accounts the soundtrack will be available from iTunes after the ceremony is over. Hmm.

[prendrelemick]

Ha! It's the Artic Monkeys, never saw that coming..

[Paulclem]

I liked the 007/ Queen sequence, and what about that cauldron? Fantastic. Nice to see Muhammad Ali, and the inclusion of so many people.

You're right Fifth. It has taken a reign to perfect that face of indifference.

[Alexander III]

I am sorry but that opening ceremony was pathetic, to think you guys had an empire 200 years ago and now you have descended to pandering Voldemort and marry-popins around to what can only be an assumed audience of a simple minded and ineffectual nation which posses none of it's pride anymore and along with it has sold it's dignity. And this was thought to be a genial idea by the men in charge of your nation. All civilizations decay but at least they try to do it with some dignity.

[OrphanPip]

I am sorry but that opening ceremony was pathetic, to think you guys had an empire 200 years ago and now you have descended to pandering Voldemort and marry-popins around to what can only be an assumed audience of a simple minded and ineffectual nation which posses none of it's pride anymore and along with it has sold it's dignity. And this was thought to be a genial idea by the men in charge of your nation. All civilizations decay but at least they try to do it with some dignity.

It was a tribute to a children's hospital (which was connected to J.M. Barrie) and the NHS participated in by volunteers. It seems an appropriate celebration of those institutions. It was thematically coherent and well executed.

[Darcy88]

Olympics kick-***. We don't fight big wars anymore so this is the best chance nations have to prove how proud and warrior-like they are. I think of Alcibiades winning the horse races and then look at the modern Olympics and I see the spirit of struggle and competition and proving oneself and one's country best - of agon - alive and well. This makes me glad as a man.

[billl]

I liked the 007/ Queen sequence, and what about that cauldron? Fantastic. Nice to see Muhammad Ali, and the inclusion of so many people.

You're right Fifth. It has taken a reign to perfect that face of indifference.

I missed some stuff, but what I did see was pretty great, and these were the three things I thought were fantastic. Have to say I also enjoyed a lot of the music, all these drummers, and the UK marching around to "Heroes" was particularly great.

[stlukesguild]

I'm sorry but I gotta agree with Alex. Of all the great cultural achievements of the British and they descend into a glittery fashion show of the last 30 years of pop culture: television and British pop. I felt embarrassed for the Brits. It was worse than something a Hollywood producer might have done.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

While watching the ceremony, I decided to write as I watched, some "running thoughts," if you will. Here's what I wrote:

Running thoughts...

Some guy just ran out and rang a bell. Okay....

Well, kids are singing. Been singing for a while. Seen a lot of shots of rugby for some unknown reason.

The meadow looks pretty stupid. I thought it was going to look much cooler.

Guy in top-hat talking, still bored. Pretty music, though.

Bunch of dirty workers walking around while a not-so-talented drummer is playing. Okay....

More drummers. More people walking around. This is so exciting!

(me and my family are now moving the ceremonies and having a good time that way)

Some really stupid dancing.

More drummers. Smoke stacks rising. People cleaning up stupid meadow. Still waiting for something cool.

The smokestacks do look cool when we see the whole stadium.

More dancing. More drummers. Still bored. Lame music, too.

The cauldron looks pretty cool. The forging of the ring definitely coolest thing so far, though I'm glad I don't have to smell it like the people there do.

Seriously, top-hat guys need to stop dancing.

Rings coming down from the sky and one going up to form symbol is also pretty cool.*

The actual forging of the rings was really cool.

Corgis, lol.

The queen doesn't look half bad for her age.

More Corgis. Lol.

Liked the smiling Churchill statue.

Queen jumping out of copter with the Bond music was pretty funny. Good sense of humor.

The disabled singing choir whom signed the anthem were really cool.

Pretty cool how they're celebrating their healthcare system. The dancing was cute. Suck it, conservatives.

The villains are pretty cool, they look awfully cheap, though.

Mary Poppinses flew in. Kind of cool in a goofy way. Though, more dancing and starting to get bored again.

Okay. That baby was messed up. Our announcer even said, "I don't know if that's cute or creepy." I vote for that latter.

Mr. Bean! Sweet. That whole part was hilarious.

Not really getting the point with this teenagers stuff. What does this have to do with anything?

Alright. I'm hungry and sick of doing these running thoughts, as I'm sure you're sick of reading them . . . if you've made it this far, that is. I'll just go straight to me overall thoughts.

Final thoughts.
After my last "running thought," I started fast forwarding, especially when the rapper came out. I did find it ironic when David Beckham appeared and got so many cheers, seeing as how he now plays and makes hi millions in America. Plus, the entrance of nations is always boring.

Even though I think it could've been executed better in some sports, especially some of the slower parts, I liked how you did celebrate your country's history, culture, and sense of humor. You had a lot to live up to after the scope of China's ceremony, and I think you succeeded because you didn't try. You did your own thing. The imagery of the doves, especially the one flying through the air was really cool. The actual lighting of the torch was super awesome, one of the coolest ever. You Brits know how to blow **** up, and you know that's high praise coming from an American. I loved hearing "Dark Side of the Moon" playing, even if it didn't reallY make sense. Paul McCartney sounded the worst I've ever heard him, unfortunately, but, hey, the guy's getting old. Plus, "Hey Jude" is my least favorite of his songs. Still a good way to end it.

Overall, I'd give it a C, but I wouldn't even give China's an A. It was definitely neat, but there were way too many slow and pointless parts.*I definitely don't think it was as bad as Alex or stlukes think. The beginning really did show he volition of Britain, going from the meadows and farmers, ingot he industrial age, and then into the technological age. I'm glad it wasn't so serious. Why shouldn't here be some humor? There were some bad parts, but the cool stuff outweighed the bad. And, come on, it wasn't worse, or even as bad, as something a Hollywoodnproducer would do. All our Super Bowl halftime shows are proof of this.

[OrphanPip]

Guy in top-hat talking, still bored. Pretty music, though.


That was Kenneth Branagh delivering a monologue from the Tempest!

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Well, that makes sense as Shakespeare usually bores the hell out of me.

[JuniperWoolf]

I liked it a lot, although I don't think it was as "grand" as ours (except that our cauldron broke - you win there, Britain). The part where they literally tore up the Wind in the Willows-like agrarian scene, and then the sparks and black iron and welding masks, that was great.

I happened to watch it twice, once by myself when I woke up on a Canadian network and then it was on again when everyone was home on an American network (NBC I think). On the Canadian network, when Lebanon came out they talked about how the Lebanese athletes were complaining that they wouldn't train near the Israeli athletes. The American network showed every other nation except Lebanon, they went directly from Latvia to Lesotho.

[billl]

I liked it a lot, although I don't think it was as "grand" as ours (except that our cauldron broke - you win there, Britain). The part where they literally tore up the Wind in the Willows-like agrarian scene, and then the sparks and black iron and welding masks, that was great.


Urgh, I'm going to have to track that section down then sometime here, that sounds great. I missed a lot of stuff including that--I just saw the hill made up of the agrarian parts (I guess it was), and had heard that something cool along those lines had happened. Really does sound awesome.

[JuniperWoolf]

I thought that the little man-made hill with the oak tree on it was beautiful (I went on about it too much apparently). It reminded me of Wind in the Willows and Watership Down. I want one now.

*edit* I knew it, I knew it: they did play the TARDIS noise during Bohemian Rhapsody! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=993puhW1Vs8&feature=player_embedded

[prendrelemick]

Alexander missed the point, We Brits love Silliness and Irony, we love the Alternative So China did the conventional marching flag waving multitudes last time, we did a party.

OK it missed all out all the Colonial history and all those "Glorious" wars we had, but that would've been plain bad manners -something we are too polite to contemplate.

[Emil Miller]

I particularly liked the jumping punks.

The rest is silence.


Ha! It's the Artic Monkeys, never saw that coming..

I did and I didn't watch it.


I am sorry but that opening ceremony was pathetic, to think you guys had an empire 200 years ago and now you have descended to pandering Voldemort and marry-popins around to what can only be an assumed audience of a simple minded and ineffectual nation which posses none of it's pride anymore and along with it has sold it's dignity. And this was thought to be a genial idea by the men in charge of your nation. All civilizations decay but at least they try to do it with some dignity.

Does anybody see a correlation?

[kiki1982]

:lol: My hubby said that it was great, but that he didn't know everyone around the world would 'get' it.

I see he has proven himself right again.

Kenneth Brannagh doing something from The Tempest was supposed to be British engineer and pioneer of the Industrial Revolution Brunel. At the end of the teenagers things (the dancing to Brit pop) was the guy who invented the internet.

I think the hill with the oak tree was supposed to be Glastenburry, hence the singer in the pre-show singing on it.

The bell was made by the same bell factory (don't know the real term here) as Big Ben.

The Mary Poppinses coming down gave a kind of surrealist feel, made me think about that painting by Belgian painter Magritte. This time no stuffy men in bowler hats, but funny women with umbrellas and carpet bags.

The first bit until the ID made me well up. :blush: Soo much substance. After that it went a little downhill for me, but you can't bore everyone with things like that. Indeed, you could have gone on about WWI and WWII, but that wouldn't have been very nice for Germany nor for Japan.

I agree there were some boring bits (the Brit pop one comes to mind), but at least most of it had substance.

I can't believe the Queen lent herself to a James Bond sequence! That is unprecedented. I bet she secretly had been dreaming of playing a small role in a film once (she used to love charades as a girl) and kept it off not to lose her authority, but now after her Diamond Jubilee, what the heck :D. I bet Philip must have said, 'Shoot, you always get everything. Are you sure I can't stand quietly in the corner somewhere? I mean, the corgies are allowed to roll over on the carpet.'

You know what, if you want to radiate class, just get the lady out to say literally a very few works and everyone is in raptures. Indespensible :D.

Rowan Atkinson was great.

The camera work wasn't very good though. Hubby said that the IOC have their own broadcasting organisation like Eurovision, which explains why every single time, the coverage of the athletes' march past into the stadium is the very same, bad and boring as always. They were trying to show too much detail and not enough overview.

But that coldron and the mount of flags was magnificent. Oh, and the Olympic flag being carried by people who actually matter was also very nice (although the camera work was way off (they clearly didn't know who was who).

Great stuff.

Do we still have to expect some more British legends for the closing ceremony?

[TheFifthElement]

Double post (stupid iPod)

[TheFifthElement]

I agree Kiki the cauldron was brilliant and I was particularly pleased to see Shami Chakrabhati carrying the Olympic flag, she's a personal hero of mine and a great female role model (such are rare).

I heard that NBC cut the tribute to the victims of the 7/7 attack and replaced it wIth an interview with some American sports star. Any American viewers able to verify? I thought the singing of Abide With Me was beautifully understated.

Also an amazing achievement for Danny Boyle: first lesbian kiss broadcast live on Saudi TV. Flying the flag for inclusion and civil liberties.

[Emil Miller]

I agree Kiki the cauldron was brilliant and I was particularly pleased to see Shami Chakrabhati carrying the Olympic flag, she's a personal hero of mine and a great female role model (such are rare).

Also an amazing achievement for Danny Boyle: first lesbian kiss broadcast live on Saudi TV. Flying the flag for inclusion and civil liberties.

I'm not surprised to read that S. Chakrabhati was carrying the flag, she's about as ubiquitous as Stephen Fry.

A lesbian kiss live on Saudi TV eh? Heads will roll.

[kiki1982]

OK, it's 'cauldron', not 'coldron'. :D

I have just found out that half of all images made are Belgian with a Walloon company doing the slow motions. They are mixed and picked by the Olympic Broadcasting Organisation.

Apparently, either the Belgians don't know how to film a road cycling race (speed bumps, camera images going up and down; at every turn, lose the peleton...) or the Olympic Broadcasting Organisation doesn't know when to cut away.

Anyway, that bit about the 7/7 bombings was nice. That silent dancing merely on a drum beat, but I'm not sure that everyone in the world would really have got that. Just because it wasn't an amazing disaster like the WTC towers. I don't want to understate it, but I don't think anyone outside the Western and Commonwealth hemisphere would actually remember.

Nice to see that Saudi-Arabia has included a woman, though! Although it needs to be mentioned that it is cheating a little bit, getting a woman who has grown up in California with double nationality due to her father to shoot for you. I mean, I doubt women there could do this at all. They would have to be accompanied to go to their club and they would either have to be driven there or it should be in their neighbourhood. But it's a step in the good direction. :)

I loved the Independent Olympic athletes from the Dutch Antillas doing their little funny act.

[Paulclem]

I am sorry but that opening ceremony was pathetic, to think you guys had an empire 200 years ago and now you have descended to pandering Voldemort and marry-popins around to what can only be an assumed audience of a simple minded and ineffectual nation which posses none of it's pride anymore and along with it has sold it's dignity. And this was thought to be a genial idea by the men in charge of your nation. All civilizations decay but at least they try to do it with some dignity.

My first post by phone. Ha! I'm not surprised you didn't like it Alex, but why would we
refer to a colonial past we lost after WW2 due to the inability if the colonial leaders to engender any local loyalty? As Mick said, it wold have been disrespectful and gross to even mention it. I'm glad Queen went along with the 007 bit. Redundant they may be, but t least the humour is there. It was a ceremony that rreflectedthe people of The UK rather thsn the the leaders. What else woulld you expect from Danny Boyle? It was pleasingly multicultural and even had the CND symbol in there. I thought the NHS bit was great too. Many people in the UK really appreciate the welfare state. Quirky and eccentric. Marvelllous.

[Emil Miller]

I'm sorry but I gotta agree with Alex. Of all the great cultural achievements of the British and they descend into a glittery fashion show of the last 30 years of pop culture: television and British pop. I felt embarrassed for the Brits. It was worse than something a Hollywood producer might have done.

It's was never likely that a nation that has as its leader a man whose favourite record is something called Tangled up in Blue by Bob Dylan and whose second favourite is Ernie by Benny Hill, was ever going to produce anything but a sub-cultural extravaganza at what should have been an important opening ceremony.
Here's the Benny Hill number, at least it's a lot better than the 'wtf is he supposed to be singing about' rubbish of his first choice.

http://youtu.be/2mdXLfx0xoQ

[billl]

I heard that NBC cut the tribute to the victims of the 7/7 attack and replaced it wIth an interview with some American sports star. Any American viewers able to verify? I thought the singing of Abide With Me was beautifully understated.


Yes, that happened (the interview was with Michael Phelps). Also during the parade, the NBC announcer mentioned the lack of a moment of silence for the Munich games, pretty much saying they thought it was a mistake for the Olympics not to include it.

Anyhow, I keep hearing that tribute was really good, so I'll have to track it down.

[Paulclem]

I missed some stuff, but what I did see was pretty great, and these were the three things I thought were fantastic. Have to say I also enjoyed a lot of the music, all these drummers, and the UK marching around to "Heroes" was particularly great.

Yes that was good. I liked the music too - particularly Going Underground by The Jam, which was a pub song of ours in the 80s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeZuku6GijA

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Only Emil would think of Bob Dylan as "wtf is he supposed to be singing about' rubbish." Bob Dylan. Damn modern music!


I did and I didn't watch it.


Yeah, like you know who the Arctic Monkeys are.

Seriously, though, you Brits should be banned by the UN from ever dancing on camera again. Having the world watch that should be a violation of the Geneva Convention.

[billl]

Yes that was good. I liked the music too - particularly Going Underground by The Jam, which was a pub song of ours in the 80s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeZuku6GijA

Good song, I never heard it before but I used to play one of their songs with some friends of mine back in the day (the other guys knew their records), and it reminded me of that. The one we did was called Pretty Green, and it was pretty easy to play!

Oh yeah, I just remembered another part I loved from the ceremonies was David Beckham piloting the speedboat along the Thames (with the statuesque model perched in front of him, like a carrot). Great visual, a nice dramatic way to check in on the torch's journey while the stuff in the stadium was going on. I'll bet ladies the world over were delighted.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Why do Brits like Beckham so much? He abandoned your country to play soccer here in America. We hate soccer! We don't even call it what the rest of the world calls it, yet he came here just because of money. And the crowd went crazy for him. Honestly, aside from women fumbling over his looks, he's seen as a joke in America.

[billl]

I think that, like in most countries, U.S. soccer fans wish Beckham were still having the sort of career that people imagined he might have during his early, heroic years. Still, people got used to that when he went to Spain and suddenly wasn't his team's best player anymore (not by a long shot). His first year in the U.S. was pretty controversial (Landon Donovan publicly *****ed about him, although the basic message was that he needed Beckham's help, so there was some respect built into the tongue-lashing), but now I think fans and teammates are basically happy with how he's doing.

People in the U.S. who aren't soccer fans might sometimes consider him a "joke", I don't know--maybe because they would consider soccer a "joke" or because of his wife, or because of some vague notion that he isn't as good as he used to be or something?

Anyhow, I don't think he's as famous with the women here in the U.S. as he is in other countries (since the U.S. is so overcrowded with wealthy celebrity heart-throbs and famously blind to the world around it), but he does appear in commercials, and so I figure it's probably working to some extent. He and his wife get on tabloid covers and get mentioned on gossip and fashion sites, so... His good looks and his consistent appearances in sports pages (even if it's "only soccer") and commercials means he's a recognizable figure for ladies to be swooning over.

Americans might not realize it, but in my experience it seems that, internationally, Beckham has supplanted Brad Pitt as the default choice for "handsome-guy cliché, English-speaking division". He's now the go-to choice for advertising and fantasy-boy-friend scenarios in that particular class. So good for him!


Why do Brits like Beckham so much? He abandoned your country to play soccer here in America. We hate soccer! We don't even call it what the rest of the world calls it, yet he came here just because of money.

I don't want to speak for the British, but I do think that a lot of his fans would've wanted him to stay at Man. United for his whole career. But before coming to L.A., he'd already done a stint in Spain. He's a national soccer hero who's past his prime, and there's no shame in playing abroad, or helping to make a soccer league successful in the U.S.

[JuniperWoolf]

Oh yeah, I just remembered another part I loved from the ceremonies was David Beckham piloting the speedboat along the Thames (with the statuesque model perched in front of him, like a carrot). Great visual, a nice dramatic way to check in on the torch's journey while the stuff in the stadium was going on. I'll bet ladies the world over were delighted.

Not as much as if it had been David Tennant. They got the wrong David.

[prendrelemick]

Thinking further about it, what really made me proud about the ceremony was that it showed we still have the confidence as a Nation to poke fun at ourselves and the freedom to be allowed to, though in a polite way of course.




Mrs P liked David Beckham's bit the best too. She says because of his big happy grin. Hmmm.. We're all susceptable to some eye candy, that Turkish flag carrier for instance.

[Emil Miller]

Why do Brits like Beckham so much?


Publicity dear boy, publicity!

[Alexander III]

Two dozen marry poppins's fighting a 40 foot voldermort.

My reaction was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q


America would have never done such an opening ceremony, why? Because say what you want, they are a nation which has pride, as someone above said it was all about silliness and irony. Great Britain the land of silliness and irony! Could you guys be any prouder about having been reduced to an inconsequential and ineffectual nation? That was the message the Ceremony gave out.

Maybe it all just seems worse because I compare it to the chinese one, but still the chinese ceremony inspired awe, the British one inspired ridicule. Which is fitting as those are the sentiments the world does posses about the respective countries.

[Scheherazade]

~

W a r n i n g

Please do NOT turn this into another "battle of nations".

Off-topic and/or inflammatory comments have been and will be removed without further notice.

~

[Paulclem]

Great Britain the land of silliness and irony! Could you guys be any prouder about having been reduced to an inconsequential and ineffectual nation? That was the message the Ceremony gave out.



Thanks Aex. That's a great accolade. We have morphed into the living embodiment of the Pythons. I think that's just brilliant.

Full retard - my new state.

:D

[Emil Miller]

Two dozen marry poppins's fighting a 40 foot voldermort.

My reaction was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q


America would have never done such an opening ceremony, why? Because say what you want, they are a nation which has pride, as someone above said it was all about silliness and irony. Great Britain the land of silliness and irony! Could you guys be any prouder about having been reduced to an inconsequential and ineffectual nation? That was the message the Ceremony gave out.

Maybe it all just seems worse because I compare it to the chinese one, but still the chinese ceremony inspired awe, the British one inspired ridicule. Which is fitting as those are the sentiments the world does posses about the respective countries.

I am unable to compare the Chinese and British Olympic opening ceremonies because I didn't see either but as far the British nation goes, it does still exist.
Great Britain, however, committed suicide on 5th July 1945.

[YesNo]

I enjoyed the opening ceremony. My wife thought the queen actually parachuted out of the helicopter. My daughter assumed it must have been a double. I was on the fence until we looked it up. That would have been a great entry.

[Babyguile]

America would have never done such an opening ceremony, why? Because say what you want, they are a nation which has pride, as someone above said it was all about silliness and irony. Great Britain the land of silliness and irony! Could you guys be any prouder about having been reduced to an inconsequential and ineffectual nation? That was the message the Ceremony gave out.

Maybe it all just seems worse because I compare it to the chinese one, but still the chinese ceremony inspired awe, the British one inspired ridicule. Which is fitting as those are the sentiments the world does posses about the respective countries.

I think Americans view China with fear rather than awe.

It did seem like an opening ceremony from a country ashamed of its past, and it had winks to the leftwing throughout.

If you look at the Beijing ceremony, it was an artistic history lesson. We were taken on a journey through China's dynatsties. That's how opening ceremonies should be, I feel. I am aware that the world already knows a lot about what Britain is but much of the east doesn't.

Too much rap, not enough Shakespeare; too much Harry Potter, not enough Magna Carter.

Also, having black men dressed as aristocratic gentleman to represent industrialists was idiotic. It's a historical fib. If Boyle wanted to represent multiculturalism, dressing someone up in the clothes of their opressor is not a good way to do it, nor did it show the cultural contributions of ethnic minorities. He took liberties with history to make a statement and I think people should have been more angry about that than they were.

[Alexander III]

I think Americans view China with fear rather than awe.

It did seem like an opening ceremony from a country ashamed of its past, and it had winks to the leftwing throughout.

If you look at the Beijing ceremony, it was an artistic history lesson. We were taken on a journey through China's dynatsties. That's how opening ceremonies should be, I feel. I am aware that the world already knows a lot about what Britain is but much of the east doesn't.

Too much rap, not enough Shakespeare; too much Harry Potter, not enough Magna Carter.


Also, having black men dressed as aristocratic gentleman to represent industrialists was idiotic. It's a historical fib. If Boyle wanted to represent multiculturalism, dressing someone up in the clothes of their opressor is not a good way to do it, nor did it show the cultural contributions of ethnic minorities. He took liberties with history to make a statement and I think people should have been more angry about that than they were.


Oddly enough and perhaps for the first time, I am in full agreement with both of your points. Especially the second, the whole ceremony felt really racist to me, it focused so much on multiculturalism and stretched it to such a point. It had all that awkwardness and artifice of a conversation with an ex-german soldier in the 1950's

"Oh the jews, yea we love the jews; the nazis didn't and they were evil, but now we love the jews, look at me taking this picture with jews, so much love, yea we love love love them, did I mention nazi's were evil and totally un-german, yea we bond over our mutual love of jews"

[TheFifthElement]

It did seem like an opening ceremony from a country ashamed of its past, and it had winks to the leftwing throughout.


I think that's one way of looking at it, but the other is that it was honest about the past, in the sense that the Britain that exists today is founded on elements to be proud of (Shakespeare, Brunel, NHS, sportsmanship) and elements to not to be proud of (the destructive and exploitative force of industrialisation, slavery, colonialism). To deny that we are forged (symbolically like the rings) from both would be a lie. I don't think, as a nation, that we view ourselves through rose tinted spectacles focusing on only our achievements and denying our failures. And I am proud of that. There are a lot of things wrong in this country, but the fact that people don't general have a falsely idealised notion of what Britain is and means isn't one of them.


We have morphed into the living embodiment of the Pythons. I think that's just brilliant.
:thumbsup:

[Emil Miller]

Oddly enough and perhaps for the first time, I am in full agreement with both of your points. Especially the second, the whole ceremony felt really racist to me, it focused so much on multiculturalism and stretched it to such a point. It had all that awkwardness and artifice of a conversation with an ex-german soldier in the 1950's

"Oh the jews, yea we love the jews; the nazis didn't and they were evil, but now we love the jews, look at me taking this picture with jews, so much love, yea we love love love them, did I mention nazi's were evil and totally un-german, yea we bond over our mutual love of jews"

Well I've spoken to plenty of WWII German army personel and not once were jews mentioned. I certainly wasn't going to mention it although I did make enquiries about other aspects of life during the Third Reich.

[Alexander III]

Well I've spoken to plenty of WWII German army personel and not once were jews mentioned. I certainly wasn't going to mention it although I did make enquiries about other aspects of life during the Third Reich.

Do you read books with the same mind-set? If so I suspect everything which was not literal went over your head.

[Paulclem]

Oddly enough and perhaps for the first time, I am in full agreement with both of your points. Especially the second, the whole ceremony felt really racist to me, it focused so much on multiculturalism and stretched it to such a point. It had all that awkwardness and artifice of a conversation with an ex-german soldier in the 1950's
"Oh the jews, yea we love the jews; the nazis didn't and they were evil, but now we love the jews, look at me taking this picture with jews, so much love, yea we love love love them, did I mention nazi's were evil and totally un-german, yea we bond over our mutual love of jews"

You wanted more of our colonial past and you don't like the multicultural inclusion and that makes the ceremony racist?


The main thing is that most people enjoyed it apart from that tory MP who called it mukticuultural rubbish. Well he would.

[Emil Miller]

Do you read books with the same mind-set? If so I suspect everything which was not literal went over your head.

It was obvious that you were being sarcastic but the inference was that German soldiers had a guilt complex about Jews. I can tell you that some of them complained to me that they had to pay a small stipend from their wages that went to Israel. So your analogy with over the top Olympic multiculturalism is false .I had to pay it to and I didn't like it either as it was nothing to do with me.

[crusoe]

How is it to own a TV, I wonder ?

[Paulclem]

How is it to own a TV, I wonder ?

More drink it in than interact.b

[Alexander III]

You wanted more of our colonial past and you don't like the multicultural inclusion and that makes the ceremony racist?


The main thing is that most people enjoyed it apart from that tory MP who called it mukticuultural rubbish. Well he would.

No not your colonial past, but your pride, once again if you belief all Britain has offered to the world is Voldemort, Marry popins and James Bond, that is fair, Maybe I had idealized Britain to much and thought of it as a significant historical country much like ancient rome. Unfortunately it seems that the greatest cultural contribution the world has received from britain is david Beckham.

Multiculturalism is a fascet of british life, I do not think there is anything wrong with that, but there was such a stress on it and so much awkward emphasis that

1) judging from the ceremony one would think that caucasians were a minority in Britain

2) it was all as affected and hypocritical as when david Cameron denies that he comes from an elite background and tries to pose as a humble common british man.


It was a ceremony designed to pander to a soft middle-aged audience, with no relevance to youth or to the actual athletes, a ceremony which was about as reflective of reality as a 1950's American sitcom were there is only one black man in the show and he is always singing and dancing as if life were all joy and rainbows.


Also the ex-german soldier reference was merely a sarcastic demonstration of something trying to mask it's past in the most grotesque way possible. i never meant to say that there were German soldiers who spoke like that, as I assume most german soldiers though they gave up the war did not give up their dignity.

Emil, I seriously do not understand how you could be proud of these olympic ceremonies.

This ceremony was a tragic hymn to the shameless Demagogy which most of europe has become. If Boris Johnson were a ceremony, this would be it.

[Emil Miller]

1) judging from the ceremony one would think that caucasians were a minority in Britain

.

Emil, I seriously do not understand how you could be proud of these olympic ceremonies.



That was probably the impression it was meant to convey. Anyway give it time


I really fail to see why you should think I'm proud of the opening ceremony when I have already stated that I didn't see it because I have no interest in the games. Judging by some of comments on this thread, it would have been an embarrassment to those who are not prepared to swallow left-wing propaganda at what should have been a non-political event.

Here's the Observer's hardly surprising but nevertheless amusing comment on the Olympics.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4840/davidsimonds29july20100.jpg

[TheFifthElement]

No not your colonial past, but your pride, once again if you belief all Britain has offered to the world is Voldemort, Marry popins and James Bond, that is fair, Maybe I had idealized Britain to much and thought of it as a significant historical country much like ancient rome. Unfortunately it seems that the greatest cultural contribution the world has received from britain is david Beckham.

I think that says more about what you recognise, rather than what it represented. Here are some of the key 'achievements' that you appear to have missed, all of which were represented in the ceremony (and made more of an appearance than Mr Beckham, whose part was teeny tiny but driven by his involvement in the successful bid to bring the games to London):

Isambard Kingdom Brunel (great British engineer, creator of the Great Western Railway and the first iron-hulled, screw propeller-driven, steam-powered passenger liner) who

read an extract from The Tempest (a great play by Shakespeare)

The Industrial Revolution (being a significant turning point in British History)

The Suffragist movement

Trade Unionism

The arrival of the Windrush bringing settlers from Jamaica to Britain

The NHS (and in particular the Great Ormand Street Children's hospital)

British children's literature (which focused on Peter Pan - on account of the link to the Great Ormand Street Hospital, but included other 'villains' from British children's literature including Voldemort but also the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Cruella de Vil from 101 Dalmations and Captain Hook from Peter Pan. In case you didn't get it, the link was that being in hospital as a child is scary but as Mary Poppins said 'a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down' and the hard working staff at GOSH are the 'medicine' which makes their hospital stay bearable. Note, Mary Poppins was actually written by an Australian. The 'performers' of this section were actual patients and staff of the Great Ormand Street Hospital)

The London Symphony Orchestra

The British music industry (which included all those bands who pushed the boundaries of popular music, creating genres)

The British film industry (debatable, I agree :D )

The world wide web (created by a Brit, Tim Berners-Lee)

The focus of the ceremony was not on the ancient past of Britain but rather the way in which Britain has made its mark on the current age - the industrial revolution and world wide web alone have changed the shape of the world. Are they not 'achievement' enough for you?

[stlukesguild]

The London Symphony Orchestra

And surely the LSO and Sir Simon Rattle were at their finest here... not only playing sidekick to Rowan Atkinson, but reduced to performing one of the true masterpieces of English classical music, the Theme from "Chariots of Fire" by that great English (oops, it would appear he was Greek: Ευάγγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου) composer, Vangelis. But of course we can't expect an audience weaned on TV and popular music to actually appreciate Purcell, Vaughan-Williams, or Elgar now can we?

[OrphanPip]

The London Symphony Orchestra

And surely the LSO and Sir Simon Rattle were at their finest here... not only playing sidekick to Rowan Atkinson, but reduced to performing one of the true masterpieces of English classical music, the Theme from "Chariots of Fire" by that great English (oops, it would appear he was Greek: Ευάγγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου) composer, Vangelis. But of course we can't expect an audience weaned on TV and popular music to actually appreciate Purcell, Vaughan-Williams, or Elgar now can we?

Ya, but it's a song associated with the Olympics through the movie. And you know, it was a bridge between what came before and the celebration of British popular culture, so it actually makes total sense as a choice within context.

[billl]

But of course we can't expect an audience weaned on TV and popular music to actually appreciate Purcell, Vaughan-Williams, or Elgar now can we?

Not only that, but it would have interfered with the point that Fifth Element highlighted immediately prior to your post. This could have served as an education to the world about some older British composer who surely should be ranked among the finest 50 of their "genre"--but an important idea of the ceremonies was to celebrate Britain's modern relevance and impact. Chariots of Fire (the song and film) are well-known, and the movie was about Britain and the Olympics. (And linked up to Blake).

If it's one's habit to denigrate popular culture, this perhaps is a good opportunity to focus one's complaints in that regard and take a stand, but the job of the ceremonies is greater than to take a roundhouse swing in a battle over cultural trends, particularly if one expects them to battle for the side that's been down for the count for some time.

Rather than celebrating composers of medium importance while great feats of colonization got played out in breath-taking choreography, great accomplishments for the common people were celebrated. If the ideas of women worldwide swooning over one of your men; of people worldwide smiling again at a performer like Atkinson (perhaps the most-widely recognized comedic performer, in my experience interacting with people from various countries); or of the example of a modern British production using the whole spectrum of its people in its re-enactments (seriously, someone is complaining about not getting the races right according to the costumes in these dance numbers???)--if all of that pales in comparison to one's imagination of some Elgar piece accompanying some vague dancing vision of an admiral, and maybe a boatload of tea--well, I just think that most of the planet would've preferred what they got.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I enjoyed the opening ceremony. My wife thought the queen actually parachuted out of the helicopter. My daughter assumed it must have been a double. I was on the fence until we looked it up. That would have been a great entry.

You had to look it up to decide on whether the 86-year-old Queen of England jumped out of a helicopter? Really?

And, the more I read, the more I'm kind of agreeing with the dissenters of the opening ceremony. It was funny and quirky, but was that really the message you wanted to send? I visited London and I absolutely loved it. The history awed me. I really didn't see much of that awe and amazement I felt when in your city at all translated in the games. I have to agree with Alex, all that kowtowing to JK Rowling was pretty pathetic, and on top of that the giant Voldemort puppet looked really horrible, as did all the giant puppet things. And what was that giant baby? Who thought that was a good idea?

Honestly, a lot of it came off as pandering. I'm kind of in agreeance with stlukes--let's not throw in any truly great composers to celebrate English culture, let's just throw the song in everyone will recognize. The whole thing was like that.

Also, a bit of an off-topic question: are there a lot of people in Britain, I guess one could call them conservatives, who are unhappy with the healthcare system you have? Our announcers said Britain was quite proud of their healthcare system (of course, that could have just been leftist propaganda to support Obamacare, damn liberal media).

[Paulclem]

You had to look it up to decide on whether the 86-year-old Queen of England jumped out of a helicopter? Really?

And, the more I read, the more I'm kind of agreeing with the dissenters of the opening ceremony. It was funny and quirky, but was that really the message you wanted to send? I visited London and I absolutely loved it. The history awed me. I really didn't see much of that awe and amazement I felt when in your city at all translated in the games. I have to agree with Alex, all that kowtowing to JK Rowling was pretty pathetic, and on top of that the giant Voldemort puppet looked really horrible, as did all the giant puppet things. And what was that giant baby? Who thought that was a good idea?

Honestly, a lot of it came off as pandering. I'm kind of in agreeance with stlukes--let's not throw in any truly great composers to celebrate English culture, let's just throw the song in everyone will recognize. The whole thing was like that.

Also, a bit of an off-topic question: are there a lot of people in Britain, I guess one could call them conservatives, who are unhappy with the healthcare system you have? Our announcers said Britain was quite proud of their healthcare system (of course, that could have just been leftist propaganda to support Obamacare, damn liberal media).

Some guy just ran out and rang a bell. Okay....

I meant to tell you that the guy who rang the bell was Bradley Wiggins who last week won the cycling Tour De France, arguably the world's most gruelling event, - the first Brit to do so. So it was in recognition of that.

I'd go with funny and quirky. The Queen seemed to go along with funy and quirky. The other Brit posters seem to like the funny and quirky, so yeah - funny and quirky.

The history is awesome and interesting, but I thnk they did a good job of tying up the major achievements - industrial revolution, literature, music, internet, with a show that was relevant for people today.

A lot of our history is tied up with wars in France and Europe, governing the colonies including the US and Canada, Australia, Africa and India. Why would we refer to all that when it has little relevance today, but would undoubtedly be offensive to someone we are hosting?

As for the NHS, it has very powerful support in the country across the political spectrum. It really doesn't resonate with the views of the right, but our PM was keen to repeatedly profess his support of it in the last election. He'd be on shaky ground if he hadn't. Having said that, there is a desire to reform it, though the political spectrum have their own views on this.

[kiki1982]

The London Symphony Orchestra

And surely the LSO and Sir Simon Rattle were at their finest here... not only playing sidekick to Rowan Atkinson, but reduced to performing one of the true masterpieces of English classical music, the Theme from "Chariots of Fire" by that great English (oops, it would appear he was Greek: Ευάγγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου) composer, Vangelis. But of course we can't expect an audience weaned on TV and popular music to actually appreciate Purcell, Vaughan-Williams, or Elgar now can we?

uhm, in the words of Obama and Bob the Builder, 'Yes, we can.'

They started the whole thing with Nimrod by... Elgar.

The Chariots of Fire song was actually being played when athletes arrived at the airport and it is regularly being played during te ceremonies, as I have heard in these first two days. So, this legendary film soundtrack, is also very much part of these 'people's games'.

It might not have been all high culture, but we cannot forget that the largest part of the world is not highly cultured and you cannot expect the average Saudi or Russian to sit through half a Shakespeare play he can't understand. Not to mention maybe some Milton and some Pope. Maybe throw in some Blake.
You cannot expect them to sit through visualised British history, because they don't know where to place it. The Commonwealth countries could do this, at best.
What anyone knows (even the bushmen in Africa) is Mr Bean, the Beatles, James Bond, Harry Potter and David Beckham. The Queen too, of course. And then you could be lucky with the somewhat more modern people, that they know the slightly more recent stuff.
Not to forget that a whole lot of the billions of people who will be watching this ceremony will not understand English, will not even know how England looks and even less what it has gone through.

And incidentally, most people do not appreciate classical music because it is borig. That is a fact. It is too difficult.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

So, Kiki, that was just a really long way of saying it was a bunch of pandering. Got it. You also seem to have a weird definition of "fact."

Every country that gets to host the Olympics gets to celebrate THEIR culture, heritage, and history. One can't think of every single country and if everyone will "get it." That's what announcers are for.


Some guy just ran out and rang a bell. Okay....

I meant to tell you that the guy who rang the bell was Bradley Wiggins who last week won the cycling Tour De France, arguably the world's most gruelling event, - the first Brit to do so. So it was in recognition of that.

I'd go with funny and quirky. The Queen seemed to go along with funy and quirky. The other Brit posters seem to like the funny and quirky, so yeah - funny and quirky.

The history is awesome and interesting, but I thnk they did a good job of tying up the major achievements - industrial revolution, literature, music, internet, with a show that was relevant for people today.

A lot of our history is tied up with wars in France and Europe, governing the colonies including the US and Canada, Australia, Africa and India. Why would we refer to all that when it has little relevance today, but would undoubtedly be offensive to someone we are hosting?

As for the NHS, it has very powerful support in the country across the political spectrum. It really doesn't resonate with the views of the right, but our PM was keen to repeatedly profess his support of it in the last election. He'd be on shaky ground if he hadn't. Having said that, there is a desire to reform it, though the political spectrum have their own views on this.



Oh, I know who the guy was. Our announcers pointed it out. I just found some guy walking out and ringing a bell once kind of dumb.

I'm not a scholar on Bristish history, but I'm sure there's plenty of stuff in England's past aside from wars that could be celebrated. Too much was centered on modern things. Just my opinion.

[Paulclem]

Oh, I know who the guy was. Our announcers pointed it out. I just found some guy walking out and ringing a bell once kind of dumb.

I'm not a scholar on Bristish history, but I'm sure there's plenty of stuff in England's past aside from wars that could be celebrated. Too much was centered on modern things. Just my opinion.

He'd got the yellow jersey on, and it was just the week before.

Anyway, no worries.

I think those who are saying it was a political view are correct - just as a march round of the services, or a celebration of ruling the waves, or our conquests would be political. Certainly it tried to represent peace - the CND symbol for example, and nurturing with the inclusion of multiculturalism and the NHS.

History has previously been presented in a top down way. I'm sure there's a technical term for it in the philosophy of history, but the ceremony seemed to be presented in a more social way - more bottom up, though there were nods to cultural icons such as shakespeare. I like that better. In my opinion leaders, kings, Queens, Governments etc, are only a part of a historical narrative, and one which has had most of the focus in the past.

How much can you cram into an opening ceremony? :D

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

True. Like I said, I didn't hate it, didn't love it. But that's pretty much been my thoughts on every opening ceremony I've seen, China included. They're always too long.

[kiki1982]

So, Kiki, that was just a really long way of saying it was a bunch of pandering. Got it. You also seem to have a weird definition of "fact."

Every country that gets to host the Olympics gets to celebrate THEIR culture, heritage, and history. One can't think of every single country and if everyone will "get it." That's what announcers are for.

Yes, yes, THEIR culture. They celebrated it, didn't they? It was fun and quirky. That's what the British are, fun and quirky, all inclusive, very passionate about the things they commit themselves to.

If you put a troop of people there to recite some really British stuff, I am sure everyone would be in awe... not.

Maybe it's just me, but that British thing had far more substance than Beijing. Beijing was about their history and heritage and what-not but to me it wasn't 'interesting'. It was a lot of mass chest-beating (typically communist).

If London had done that, you would have been complaining here about that very same thing. You can't please everyone.

Anyway, it's been done before and the British don't do what everyone does, because it's boring.


Let's think then what they could have included in the history thing:


Stone Henge could have been put somewhere.
Ok, the invasion of the Angles and the Saxons, maybe the invasion of the Romans and Bodicea they could have done. Not sure how far everyone would have got in this.
William the Conquerer (not sure how; knight in a boat?)
The Magna Carta (embarrassing due to John Lackland's megalomania that called for it)
The Wars of the Roses: a petty argument of a few hundred years about who was the rightful king, the Lancaster dynasty who essentially took it or the York one who gave it away; See Shakey's Richard III
Agincourt to offend the French. (they have not forgotten it)
Henry VIII who killed 5 wives and conceved the Church of England mainly because he wanted to sign his own divorce...
The Spanish Armada to offend the Spanish (Drake and Lizzie I: ok, she could have done the 'weak and feeble woman' speech)
The English Civil War when they killed their king, not really because he spent too much money like the French one about 150-odd years later, but because he was Catholic (or at least his wife was) a threat to the CoE and because he refused to give up his divine right. Anyway, they don't want to think about that demise of British culture.
The slave trade/sugar trade, to offend all the blacks and embarrass themselves
The Regency and Austen (Mr Darcy?)
Napoleon's defeat, to offend the French again. (they certainly have not forgotten that!)
Nelson? Guy in a Napoleon type hat and eye-patch. Not even sure most Brits would put him in the right place
The Empire, of course. To offend everyone who is not white.
Queen Victoria (she did change society, but how do you make people aware of this in 30 seconds?)
The Irish Potato Famine
The Workhouse
WWI and WWII (the Battle of Britain which essentially saved Europe from the Nazis, hear the Germans swallow very loudly, not to mention the Israelis feeling uncomfortable)
Iraq and Afgahnistan anyone?

Inventions/science:
the steam machine and the spinning Jenny
Isaac Newton with his apple?
Charles Darwin (not everyone agrees on this)
the train (that's easy, well... costs a lot to do it properly)
the 'factory'
tartan
the internet
the NHS (that did feature)
the proper toilet!
the underground
drains?
Cricket/polo/golf/croquet/snooker

The problem with these things is that they are either obscure (even to Britons apparently), insignificant/unknown, indistinct or no-one knows they are British. Or, the biggest problem, of course, embarrassing (either to themselves or to other people). They don't want to celebrate that they got rich on catching black people in East Farica and transporting them in hoards to America; they don't want to celebrate that they got rich on sugar and the slaughter that de facto went on on sugar plantations in Jamaica; they don't want to celebrate that they killed their king (unlike the French would). The latter they even see as an unforgiveable and unthinkable embarrassment and glaring injustice. Admittedly, they see the Empire as one as well, because of misplaced political correctness, but maybe you don't want to 'celebrate' killing many Indians and Irish in an attempt to keep your Empire, for a world audience of at least 1 billion. It brought a lot of good things, but they don't want to remind people of it because it is past. Same for WWI and II.

The accomplishments of the British (in my opinion) amount largely to simple things that eventually became great and big. Like the steam engin, the internet, mixing different cultures and embracing them, women's rights, parliamentary democracy, monarchy with limited power, the IR, trains, architecture, art, humour etc. But you haven't got anything touchable. All those things mean a great deal and have had a great effect on the world, but it's not obvious. Apart from a few, but who knows how Constable and Turner looked?

The problem with the UK is also that they care too much about not offending anyone, and certainly not if you are celebrating unity of all nations. That was probably what they had mainly in mind. Or that's what that ceremony came down to for me, at the very end.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

If London had done that, you would have been complaining here about that very same thing.

That mind reading ability of yours is amazing. I wish I could do that.

[stlukesguild]

If it's one's habit to denigrate popular culture, this perhaps is a good opportunity to focus one's complaints in that regard and take a stand, but the job of the ceremonies is greater than to take a roundhouse swing in a battle over cultural trends...

No... the job was seemingly to pander to the lowest common denominator... to say nothing of pathetic efforts of political correctness. You'd think the black population in England was larger than it was in the US... and certainly I have nothing wrong with including any and every minority... but this just smacked to much of putting on a show as to "Look! See how culturally diverse and integrated we are?" Really? Blacks men dressed as aristocratic gentleman to represent industrialists? Certainly any unbiased person can see the idiocy. What can we expect when Berlin finally hosts the Olympics, Hasidic Jews dressed as Nazis?

As for the question of high vs low culture, the issue isn't the inclusion of popular culture and the achievements of the "masses". The issue is that that's pretty much all that one saw. As a participant in a Literature discussion site, one would imagine that you are in support of the "high culture" that is the great history of British Literature... but certainly... have your Mary Poppins and Harry Potter so you can play down with the masses.

As for the constant references to British colonialism... No one is suggesting that the event should have rubbed Britain's Imperial past or the events of WWI & WWII in everyone's face... but silly me... I guess that I too was fooled, like Alex, in that I actually believed that Britain had something more to offer the world than an orgy of pop culture.

And incidentally, most people do not appreciate classical music because it is borig. That is a fact.

No... that's not a "fact". That's personal opinion. It may be a fact that pop music and pop culture is dominant... so we shouldn't aspire to anything greater?

The problem with the UK is also that they care too much about not offending anyone...

Marvelous bit of stereotyping there. And since when has the UK placed so much value upon not offending... placating everyone else? {edit}

[YesNo]

You had to look it up to decide on whether the 86-year-old Queen of England jumped out of a helicopter? Really?

We checked it out at the next commercial break. Even with a double, I thought the entrance was pretty good. It is one of the few things I'll remember of the ceremony.

I might as well admit that I also liked Atkinson's one note performance on the keyboard.

[OrphanPip]

No... the job was seemingly to pander to the lowest common denominator... to say nothing of pathetic efforts of political correctness. You'd think the black population in England was larger than it was in the US... and certainly I have nothing wrong with including any and every minority... but this just smacked to much of putting on a show as to "Look! See how culturally diverse and integrated we are?" Really? Blacks men dressed as aristocratic gentleman to represent industrialists? Certainly any unbiased person can see the idiocy. What can we expect when Berlin finally hosts the Olympics, Hasidic Jews dressed as Nazis?

That's a ridiculous complaint, so they should have turned away black volunteers because it would not have been historically accurate? Really? That's among the most idiotic suggestions I've read on this forum in weeks. You have to just be looking for things to nitpick about to complain about that.

Also, here's one still of the cast lined up:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/2012_Summer_Olympics_opening_ceremony_%2810%29.jpg

I don't see very many black people in the crowd.

Apparently, making two people of colour a major centre piece of the pop culture segment, as well as having one moment giving a nod to black immigrants arriving in the 19th century amounts to England acting like the population is majority black.

{edit}

[Monamy]

It's sad to see some people still have the black/white/rainbow/whatever color arguments to this day. When will we all learn to live along? What does that have anything to do with the festivities of the Olympics?

[prendrelemick]

I shouldn't leave Kiki and billl to defend the Uk's ceremony.

It reflected how the British would prefer to be seen today, not only the content but the presentation as well. They got it right, that is what we are.

Speaking for myself, I have tremendous National Pride. I am proud of our history and achievements of course. (Including a history of dissent.) But I am more proud about the way we have moved on from jingoism and that awful blind patriotism that used to dominate. The way ordinary people have taken over and shaped our society. I count that as a sign of maturity and confidence, we have grown up and stopped being a playground bully.

[Babyguile]

Stone Henge could have been put somewhere.
Ok, the invasion of the Angles and the Saxons, maybe the invasion of the Romans and Bodicea they could have done. Not sure how far everyone would have got in this.
William the Conquerer (not sure how; knight in a boat?)
The Magna Carta (embarrassing due to John Lackland's megalomania that called for it)
The Wars of the Roses: a petty argument of a few hundred years about who was the rightful king, the Lancaster dynasty who essentially took it or the York one who gave it away; See Shakey's Richard III
Agincourt to offend the French. (they have not forgotten it)
Henry VIII who killed 5 wives and conceved the Church of England mainly because he wanted to sign his own divorce...
The Spanish Armada to offend the Spanish (Drake and Lizzie I: ok, she could have done the 'weak and feeble woman' speech)
The English Civil War when they killed their king, not really because he spent too much money like the French one about 150-odd years later, but because he was Catholic (or at least his wife was) a threat to the CoE and because he refused to give up his divine right. Anyway, they don't want to think about that demise of British culture.
The slave trade/sugar trade, to offend all the blacks and embarrass themselves
The Regency and Austen (Mr Darcy?)
Napoleon's defeat, to offend the French again. (they certainly have not forgotten that!)
Nelson? Guy in a Napoleon type hat and eye-patch. Not even sure most Brits would put him in the right place
The Empire, of course. To offend everyone who is not white.
Queen Victoria (she did change society, but how do you make people aware of this in 30 seconds?)
The Irish Potato Famine
The Workhouse
WWI and WWII (the Battle of Britain which essentially saved Europe from the Nazis, hear the Germans swallow very loudly, not to mention the Israelis feeling uncomfortable)
Iraq and Afgahnistan anyone?

I think the main strength of the ceremony was its theatrical storytelling of (VERY LIMITED) parts of British history. That is what made China's ceremony so great. But China got it right, London didn't: ignoring the bits of history that aren't politically correct means the parts you do show are divorced from any context and thus make no sense.

It seemed like a jumbley mashup of different things, a lot of it too nice and smiley (NHS nurses jumping up and down on beds lasted about twenty minutes for God's sake). Are we really this lilly-livered nowadays?

How can you show immigrants coming to Britain from Jamaica without somehow representing the slave trade? We could then show how people like Frederick Douglass came to Birtain to buy his freedom from British abolitonists. The greatest abolshonist of all time (in my opinion) got his freedom and education in Britain! It is where he got his first public platforms to speak out against slavery in his native US. That is an incredible thing.

But wait, that would offend Americans!


Inventions/science:
the steam machine and the spinning Jenny
Isaac Newton with his apple?
Charles Darwin (not everyone agrees on this)
the train (that's easy, well... costs a lot to do it properly)
the 'factory'
tartan
the internet
the NHS (that did feature)
the proper toilet!
the underground
drains?
Cricket/polo/golf/croquet/snooker

This modest list doesn't even look like it touches the tip of the iceberg of what Britain has acheived. Especially the 'tangible' inventions, and you missed football and tennis!


The problem with these things is that they are either obscure (even to Britons apparently), insignificant/unknown, indistinct or no-one knows they are British. Or, the biggest problem, of course, embarrassing (either to themselves or to other people). They don't want to celebrate that they got rich on catching black people in East Farica and transporting them in hoards to America; they don't want to celebrate that they got rich on sugar and the slaughter that de facto went on on sugar plantations in Jamaica; they don't want to celebrate that they killed their king (unlike the French would). The latter they even see as an unforgiveable and unthinkable embarrassment and glaring injustice. Admittedly, they see the Empire as one as well, because of misplaced political correctness, but maybe you don't want to 'celebrate' killing many Indians and Irish in an attempt to keep your Empire, for a world audience of at least 1 billion. It brought a lot of good things, but they don't want to remind people of it because it is past. Same for WWI and II.

The accomplishments of the British (in my opinion) amount largely to simple things that eventually became great and big. Like the steam engin, the internet, mixing different cultures and embracing them, women's rights, parliamentary democracy, monarchy with limited power, the IR, trains, architecture, art, humour etc. But you haven't got anything touchable. All those things mean a great deal and have had a great effect on the world, but it's not obvious. Apart from a few, but who knows how Constable and Turner looked?

I have no clue what you mean by simple things, especially given the examples you gave. The world's first parlaimentary democracy is not a simple thing, neither is the dissolution of power from a monarch to a representative parlaiment: Britain's entire histoy has been a struggle to make this happen. Do you mean it's not 'tangible' because it was a slow, gradual change unlike the French Revolution?

Also, Britons (and I am one) have a very good understanding of their contributions and what makes our country Great. Look at the 100 Greatest Britons (voted for by the common person). It inspired the Canadians to do the same (you can't blame them for trying). We still have traditions which are alive today, and we protect them fiercely. We know an awful lot. Tradition and history is all around us and we know how to celebrate like no other nation on Earth.

[JuniperWoolf]

Why SHOULD they stroke themselves over their colonial past in front of the entire world for events which no living person took part in? If it were held in Rome today, it would be pathetic if they went on to excess about the ancient Roman days of the republic. The British opening ceremony focused on today rather than rambling on about the "glory days" like someone's sad old war veteran grandfather. They celebrated modern Britain's cultural essence, their spirit, with the comedy and the whimsical children's literature segment (I know, I know, "high culture, what what? Death to Harry Potter!" -they brought the Queen of Hearts and Captain Hook into it too, get over it snobs). They celebrated their values in the social services, which all living (as in, not dead for centuries) British citizens can be personally proud of. They also depicted that which made all of modern life possible in the first place: industrialization and the technological revolution, both of which had their origin in Britain. Very today, very progress-oriented, I approve.

Doug Stanhope's diatrabe on nationalsim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy19YmQHHJU)really reflects how I feel on this subject, puffing out your chest over things which happened centuries ago and in which you took no part is just sad. It's unhealthy and denotes a lack of pride in yourself to derive your self-worth from achievements made by people who just-so-happened to be born in the same country as you centuries ago. I prefer modern Britain much more anyway, for the reasons Mick specified:


But I am more proud about the way we have moved on from jingoism and that awful blind patriotism that used to dominate. The way ordinary people have taken over and shaped our society. I count that as a sign of maturity and confidence, we have grown up and stopped being a playground bully.

[Babyguile]

Why SHOULD they be proud of their colonial past and stroke themselves in front of the entire world? If it were held in Rome today, it would be pathetic if they went on to excess about the ancient Roman days of the republic, the dust from the bones of the people who took part in any accomplishments made back then is long gone. I commend the ceremony for reflecting the seperate aspects of British culture, life, and spirit today - the great social services Briatian should be proud of which refects their compassion for their community (which is how I always thought about Britain, especially post-Blitz), the sufferegette's (thamthe childrens' literature of the last century which is loved by people all over the world and will be read for centuries to come, the comedy for which modern Britain is famous, and the representation of that which made modern life possible in the first place: industrialization and the technological revolution, both of which had their origin in Britain.

Doug Stanhope's diatrabe on nationalsim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy19YmQHHJU)really reflects how I feel on this subject, stroking yourself and puffing out your chest in front of the whole world over things which happened centuries ago and in which you took no part would just be sad.

Isn't the job of an opening ceremony to showcase the host nation to the world? To tell the world where the nation has come from, what it has been through? It's not a question of boasting about history, it's a question of showing its history in all its true colours.

[Paulclem]

I shouldn't leave Kiki and billl to defend the Uk's ceremony.

It reflected how the British would prefer to be seen today, not only the content but the presentation as well. They got it right, that is what we are.

Speaking for myself, I have tremendous National Pride. I am proud of our history and achievements of course. (Including a history of dissent.) But I am more proud about the way we have moved on from jingoism and that awful blind patriotism that used to dominate. The way ordinary people have taken over and shaped our society. I count that as a sign of maturity and confidence, we have grown up and stopped being a playground bully.

Well said.

[Sancho]

The small part of the opening ceremony I got to watch was splendid.

It’s an international sporting event. A little patriotism from the home team is to be expected, but I don’t want a history lesson – at a sporting event.

The Olympics is a chance for the whole world to celebrate sports and sportsmanship. It’s an opportunity for us to cheer for athletes we’ve never heard of, competing in events unfamiliar to us, with obscure rules we don’t understand, and against competitors from countries we can’t find on a map.

Ain’t it grand?

Also will somebody please keep an eye on Prendrelmick? I think he may be stalking the Turkish Flag Girl.

I, on the other hand, spent way too much time watching the Women’s Beach Volleyball competition.

[mona amon]

I, on the other hand, spent way too much time watching the Women’s Beach Volleyball competition.

I heard they were going to play in leggings and long sleeved T-shirts because of the chilly weather - so that's not true, then? :p

[prendrelemick]

The small part of the opening ceremony I got to watch was splendid.

It’s an international sporting event. A little patriotism from the home team is to be expected, but I don’t want a history lesson – at a sporting event.

The Olympics is a chance for the whole world to celebrate sports and sportsmanship. It’s an opportunity for us to cheer for athletes we’ve never heard of, competing in events unfamiliar to us, with obscure rules we don’t understand, and against competitors from countries we can’t find on a map.

Ain’t it grand?

Also will somebody please keep an eye on Prendrelmick? I think he may be stalking the Turkish Flag Girl.

I, on the other hand, spent way too much time watching the Women’s Beach Volleyball competition.

I'd like to refute that, but I err... have to go out for a while...

[Emil Miller]

... the job was seemingly to pander to the lowest common denominator... to say nothing of pathetic efforts of political correctness. You'd think the black population in England was larger than it was in the US... and certainly I have nothing wrong with including any and every minority... but this just smacked to much of putting on a show as to "Look! See how culturally diverse and integrated we are?"

Got it in one.



I actually believed that Britain had something more to offer the world than an orgy of pop culture.

Not for a very long time.



Are we really this lilly-livered nowadays?



Yes.

[JuniperWoolf]

Isn't the job of an opening ceremony to showcase the host nation to the world? To tell the world where the nation has come from, what it has been through? It's not a question of boasting about history, it's a question of showing its history in all its true colours.

Yeah, to show the greatness of the host nation as it exists today, it isn't a history lesson. Why would it be a history lesson? Ours wasn't either, we showcased that which represents our spirit and culture.

History doesn't change and many countries host the Olympics several times per century (it's been in Canada twice since I was born, once in Calgary in the 80's and most recently in Van in 2010), are they supposed to cover the distant history of the nation every single time they're the hosts? That would be so boring, and pointless, and really kind of pathetic. "See? We colonized much of Africa! That's our achievement, we did that - even though technically we were literally centuries away from being born and none of this has anything to do with any living human being. Isn't that neat, African guests?"

[kiki1982]

No... that's not a "fact". That's personal opinion. It may be a fact that pop music and pop culture is dominant... so we shouldn't aspire to anything greater?

Either you are sitting in an ivory tower or you are conveniently ignoring the large majority of the world population, just for the sake of this argument.

I suggest you go and ask around in your home town. And, mind, go a little further than your obviously middle class area where people see themselves as the leaders of humanity.


Marvelous bit of stereotyping there. And since when has the UK placed so much value upon not offending... placating everyone else?

I suggest you watch more BBC and you actually take in what you watch. Read a bit of newspaper too.
Since when? I think it really took off in 1997, when Labour took over, but the PC was there way before then. It's a very, very, very big part of modern Britain at least.


I think the main strength of the ceremony was its theatrical storytelling of (VERY LIMITED) parts of British history. That is what made China's ceremony so great. But China got it right, London didn't: ignoring the bits of history that aren't politically correct means the parts you do show are divorced from any context and thus make no sense.

I agree with that, although, with the immigrants they were referring to the 50s/60s/70s when a lot of people from the West Indies came over.
But indeed, someone else here said that the Olympics is NOT about yourself and your history, the Olympics is about sportsmen uniting from around the world (equal to the Ancient Greek idea, or that's what they would like to think), hence, actually, any of this chest-beating is massively beside the point. The Ancient Greek Olympics used to stop wars becausez athletes had to be able to travel without problems to Olympia. The last thing you want to do in that tradition is remind people of the nasty things you may have done in the past (some nations of which are still not out of the woods, like Australia and South-Africa).


How can you show immigrants coming to Britain from Jamaica without somehow representing the slave trade? We could then show how people like Frederick Douglass came to Birtain to buy his freedom from British abolitonists. The greatest abolshonist of all time (in my opinion) got his freedom and education in Britain! It is where he got his first public platforms to speak out against slavery in his native US. That is an incredible thing.

Yes, that is an incredible thing. And how will you do this in a visual way?


But wait, that would offend Americans!

Well, if some of them got offended by Lebanon and Israel and opted not to show Lebanon because they complained about Israel marching so close to them (yeah, right), I wonder whether that would indeed not offend some of them, yes. However ridiculous that might be.


This modest list doesn't even look like it touches the tip of the iceberg of what Britain has acheived. Especially the 'tangible' inventions, and you missed football and tennis!

I know it didn't make up everything they ever invented. It was late and I apologise.


I have no clue what you mean by simple things, especially given the examples you gave. The world's first parlaimentary democracy is not a simple thing, neither is the dissolution of power from a monarch to a representative parlaiment: Britain's entire histoy has been a struggle to make this happen. Do you mean it's not 'tangible' because it was a slow, gradual change unlike the French Revolution?

There you hit it: the French Revolution can be symbolised in a guillotine. You can't symbolise the Magna Carta or the effect of Cromwell/the English Civil War in one thing. Just because it is not an eruption like the FR.


Also, Britons (and I am one) have a very good understanding of their contributions and what makes our country Great. Look at the 100 Greatest Britons (voted for by the common person). It inspired the Canadians to do the same (you can't blame them for trying). We still have traditions which are alive today, and we protect them fiercely. We know an awful lot. Tradition and history is all around us and we know how to celebrate like no other nation on Earth.

That Britons are aware of traditions, is true, very true. I would have liked to see some Morris men there in the beginning, in that respect.
But the 100 Greatest Britons, although that may look good, I distinctly remember that they broadcast documentaries on each and every one of those candidates for the title, presented by a celebrity who supported the cause. So, anyone who voted after those documentaries knew more than they would have done had they just given them a list.
King Arthur, who is also in the top 100 isn't even a Briton, because he is a French product of fiction, drawn from an obscure story about a nameless tribesman on a hill by Geoffrey of Monmouth..
Studies suggest that the vast majority only knows British history in a fragmentary way and mainly past WWII (Winston Churchill if included).
I doubt that if you went to the streets of Glasgow and asked a large representative part of the people who Alexander Fleming is, whether they would actually know. Not to mention that crazy guy Faraday. Darwin, yes, we descend from apes, don't we. Well, ok, you could put it like that... If you said Henry VIII, they'd probably remember the 6 wives, but not the Reformation. It's just a guess though.

I just thought that ceremony was a breath of fresh air. As Boris said, wiff-waff had come home. Sports came home and were reduced to their first purpose, not the chest-beating that is usually done. That's not what the Olympics is about.

If I were arrogant, I'd say that there was no need to remind the world of what the British have accomplished, because everyone knows it, but I won't. :D

[kiki1982]

Yeah, to showcase the greatness of the host nation as it exists today, it isn't a history lesson. Why would it be a history lesson? Ours wasn't either, we showcased that which represents our spirit and culture.

History doesn't change and many countries host the Olympics several times per century (it's been in Canada twice since I was born, once in Calgary in the 80's and most recently in Van in 2010), are they supposed to cover the distant history of the nation every single time they're the hosts? That would be so boring, and pointless, and really kind of pathetic. "See? We colonized much of Africa! That's our achievement, we did that - even though technically we were literally centuries away from being born and none of this has anything to do with any living human being. Isn't that neat, African guests?"

That's a good point.

[prendrelemick]

I think the main strength of the ceremony was its theatrical storytelling of (VERY LIMITED) parts of British history. That is what made China's ceremony so great. But China got it right, London didn't: ignoring the bits of history that aren't politically correct means the parts you do show are divorced from any context and thus make no sense..

The Great Leap Forward? The Cultural Revolution? Murder of newborn girls? But I agree, the Chinese ceremony was right for China.




It seemed like a jumbley mashup of different things, a lot of it too nice and smiley .

It was an Entertainment first and foremost.





How can you show immigrants coming to Britain from Jamaica without somehow representing the slave trade? We could then show how people like Frederick Douglass came to Birtain to buy his freedom from British abolitonists. The greatest abolshonist of all time (in my opinion) got his freedom and education in Britain! It is where he got his first public platforms to speak out against slavery in his native US. That is an incredible thing.

But wait, that would offend Americans!

Hang on a minute, that is what they were trying to say; ideas that spread from Britain were as strong and as significant as Victorian iron. But you can't have every specific example.





Also, Britons (and I am one) have a very good understanding of their contributions and what makes our country Great. -
- We still have traditions which are alive today, and we protect them fiercely. We know an awful lot. Tradition and history is all around us and we know how to celebrate like no other nation on Earth.

Well said! But History is an ongoing thing and all traditions were once new.

[Emil Miller]

It's sad to see some people still have the black/white/rainbow/whatever color arguments to this day. What does that have anything to do with the festivities of the Olympics?

Perhaps somebody ought to have mentioned that to the organisers.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

That's a ridiculous complaint, so they should have turned away black volunteers because it would not have been historically accurate? Really? That's among the most idiotic suggestions I've read on this forum in weeks. You have to just be looking for things to nitpick about to complain about that.

Also, here's one still of the cast lined up:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/2012_Summer_Olympics_opening_ceremony_%2810%29.jpg

I don't see very many black people in the crowd.

Apparently, making two people of colour a major centre piece of the pop culture segment, as well as having one moment giving a nod to black immigrants arriving in the 19th century amounts to England acting like the population is majority black.

{edit}
Actually, stlukes isn't the first to have pointed out the irony of having so many black people take on the role of England's founding fathers (I guess you'd call them that). I don't think it was offensive, just kind of stupid. It seemed like a huge effort to represent their past in a diverse way that just wasn't the case. I thought the same thing when I saw it.



How can you show immigrants coming to Britain from Jamaica without somehow representing the slave trade? We could then show how people like Frederick Douglass came to Birtain to buy his freedom from British abolitonists. The greatest abolshonist of all time (in my opinion) got his freedom and education in Britain! It is where he got his first public platforms to speak out against slavery in his native US. That is an incredible thing.

But wait, that would offend Americans!

Why would that offend Americans?


I'm not criticizing the ceremony because it celebrated modern culture, but because it devoted so much of the ceremony to it while ignoring so much of Britain's other CULTURAL and ARTISTIC achievements, and doing it poorly. The dancing was cringeworthy, and some of the set-pieces looked quite cheap and corny (some of them looked amazing). Some of you keep saying "Why should they celebrate their history of war and oppression and offend people." I don't think anyone has said that's what they should do.

[JuniperWoolf]

Complain, complain, complain...


It seemed like a huge effort to represent their past in a diverse way that just wasn't the case. I thought the same thing when I saw it.

I didn't even notice because they're actors. Everyone already knows that black people in top hats were an uncommon (although really not unheard of) sight, they aren't going to the opening ceremony of the olympics for an accurate representation of Great Britain's racial make-up at the turn of the twentieth century. I think I only saw one black extra in top hat gear anyway. Like Pip said, should they have just told that one guy "sorry bud, you're black?"


I'm not criticizing the ceremony because it celebrated modern culture, but because it devoted so much of the ceremony to it while ignoring so much of Britain's other CULTURAL and ARTISTIC achievements.

Most of Britain's modern contributions to the arts have been in comedy, film, and music. What would YOU have included that they missed?

[TheFifthElement]

And surely the LSO and Sir Simon Rattle were at their finest here... not only playing sidekick to Rowan Atkinson, but reduced to performing one of the true masterpieces of English classical music, the Theme from "Chariots of Fire" by that great English (oops, it would appear he was Greek: Ευάγγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου) composer, Vangelis. But of course we can't expect an audience weaned on TV and popular music to actually appreciate Purcell, Vaughan-Williams, or Elgar now can we?

Yes, they took a moment which could have been pompous and self-aggrandising and turned it into comedy. That's not untypically British. Even people who work in orchestras have a sense of humour and like to have fun - shocker. I thought it was a great example of one of those rare positive British traits - good sportsmanship.



No... the job was seemingly to pander to the lowest common denominator... to say nothing of pathetic efforts of political correctness. You'd think the black population in England was larger than it was in the US... and certainly I have nothing wrong with including any and every minority... but this just smacked to much of putting on a show as to "Look! See how culturally diverse and integrated we are?"
It might surprise you to know that London, and particularly the East End of London where the Olympic stadium is located, is very ethnically diverse. So it's not really that surprising that where they are drawing on volunteers from the local population (as a significant number of the performers were volunteers and not actors) that the ethnic diversity of that area would be represented in the ceremony. You can read more about the ethnicity of the boroughs bordering the Olympic stadium here: http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgsl/901-950/916_borough_statistics/ethnicity.aspx
http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/Pages/Services/Statistics-economic-information-and-analysis.aspx
http://www.newham.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/08581283-CEFB-41B5-8631-DDCF8983A657/0/JSNA2009FINALSection4Demography.pdf

Sadly many of those London boroughs are poor areas, so you can see we still have a lot of work to do to create a society that is truly inclusive. But to set out an ideal that an inclusive society is what we want to build - is that such a terrible thing? Why shouldn't a black man or woman take the role of an industrialist? Should we have dug up the corpse of Isambard Kingdom Brunel and propped it up to make that part more authentic?

Did you watch the ceremony on NBC? By all accounts the coverage was an act of butchery, so that may, at least in part, influence your view of the ceremony. I don't think you watched the ceremony that we watched, live and unedited.


And, the more I read, the more I'm kind of agreeing with the dissenters of the opening ceremony. It was funny and quirky, but was that really the message you wanted to send?
To echo Paulclem: Yes.

It's more in line with the Britain most British people recognise and experience. The changing of the guards, Buckingham palace, Nelson's column - they're for the tourists.


I have to agree with Alex, all that kowtowing to JK Rowling was pretty pathetic, and on top of that the giant Voldemort puppet looked really horrible, as did all the giant puppet things. And what was that giant baby? Who thought that was a good idea?

I didn't see this as 'kowtowing' at all. They had a writer of children's fiction present a piece which was about children's fiction by British writers. And she didn't read from her own book but from J.M. Barrie's Peter Pan. Actually the use of celebrities in the ceremony was quite sparing, but where they were used they were people who were recognisable the world over. You could have put Michael Morpurgo up there (another great writer of children's fiction) but really, who would have recognised him? So if not J.K. Rowling, who would you have used to represent British children's literature who was living and recognisable to the rest of the world?

The puppeteering thing is a bit of an ongoing trend at the moment in UK. I'm not sure if it made it's way across the pond but we had this amazing event in Liverpool to commemorate the sinking of the Titanic called 'Sea Odyssey' which involved three giant puppets crossing the city. It was pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOfbgbMSLs8

The Voldemort puppet was meant to be creepy, by the way. The whole piece was about how scary it is to be in hospital as a child. Also bear in mind that there was a stadium audience to cater for so the giganticism of the puppets will largely have been for that purpose. There's a big difference between the stadium experience and what translates to TV (I have the good fortune of having experienced both, as I participated in the Manchester 2002 Commonwealth Games opening and closing ceremonies) - I'm not sure it always crosses that boundary well but the organisers do have to consider both.


Actually, stlukes isn't the first to have pointed out the irony of having so many black people take on the role of England's founding fathers
Correction: it's not England but The United Kingdom. England is one country in the nation comprised of many. Also, the United Kingdom does not have 'founding fathers'. This section was representative of the Industrial Revolution which covered the period 1750 - 1850 during which the factory system became prevalent. The country had been around for a while by then :D

See comments above re ethnicity of the performers.


Also, a bit of an off-topic question: are there a lot of people in Britain, I guess one could call them conservatives, who are unhappy with the healthcare system you have? Our announcers said Britain was quite proud of their healthcare system (of course, that could have just been leftist propaganda to support Obamacare, damn liberal media).

It has its detractors but in the main people are proud of and protective of the NHS. So be watchful about those comments you're making about the dancers as many of those were NHS workers. Insult them at your peril ;)

[Babyguile]

Yeah, to show the greatness of the host nation as it exists today, it isn't a history lesson. Why would it be a history lesson? Ours wasn't either, we showcased that which represents our spirit and culture.

History doesn't change and many countries host the Olympics several times per century (it's been in Canada twice since I was born, once in Calgary in the 80's and most recently in Van in 2010), are they supposed to cover the distant history of the nation every single time they're the hosts? That would be so boring, and pointless, and really kind of pathetic. "See? We colonized much of Africa! That's our achievement, we did that - even though technically we were literally centuries away from being born and none of this has anything to do with any living human being. Isn't that neat, African guests?"

Are we presuming that Canada actually has a considerable history?

[JuniperWoolf]

Are we presuming that Canada actually has a considerable history?

Well yeah, that just furthers the point: most pubs in London are older than my country and it would STILL be tedious covering it all. Covering the UK's history would be impossible, and boring as hell if they tried. It's the opening ceremony, not social studies class.

[kiki1982]

It might surprise you to know that London, and particularly the East End of London where the Olympic stadium is located, is very ethnically diverse. So it's not really that surprising that where they are drawing on volunteers from the local population (as a significant number of the performers were volunteers and not actors) that the ethnic diversity of that area would be represented in the ceremony. You can read more about the ethnicity of the boroughs bordering the Olympic stadium here: http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgsl/901-950/916_borough_statistics/ethnicity.aspx
http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/Pages/Services/Statistics-economic-information-and-analysis.aspx
http://www.newham.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/08581283-CEFB-41B5-8631-DDCF8983A657/0/JSNA2009FINALSection4Demography.pdf

Have to agree. It was quite commendable to include largely non-professionals, also for the dancing.
Obviously, there were those who had studied drama/dancing, but they were not the Royal Ballet. The lead girl of the 60s section was 15.

In fact, the first coloured MP was in the 1860s and Indian.


The puppeteering thing is a bit of an ongoing trend at the moment in UK. I'm not sure if it made it's way across the pond but we had this amazing event in Liverpool to commemorate the sinking of the Titanic called 'Sea Odyssey' which involved three giant puppets crossing the city. It was pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOfbgbMSLs8

Oh, not to mention that production War Horse. They also did a puppet thing on a horse for the Queen's Jubilee Pageant on the roof of the Royal Ballet School, or something. Quite amazing, that.


Correction: it's not England but The United Kingdom. England is one country in the nation comprised of many. Also, the United Kingdom does not have 'founding fathers'. This section was representative of the Industrial Revolution which covered the period 1750 - 1850 during which the factory system became prevalent. The country had been around for a while by then :D

I thought that section just before the IR had a distinct Hardy-feel. Same kind of yellowish and sunny colours with an idyllic feel, then everything gets shattered by modern machinery which arrives in the guise of something pretty innocent like a post chase.

Maybe they should have dressed people up as Dickens, Austen, Robert Burns, Walter Scott, not to forget Shakespeare, Wellington (Stephen Fry was very good!) and things. Oh, Samuel Johnson and his dictionary.

Maybe they should have included 'the King who brought back partying'. :D

Actually, that Jazz-song by Shakespeare from Horrible Histories was great. They should have included that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Cy4-rfd24&feature=plcp
but then no-one would have got that.

[stlukesguild]

I shouldn't leave Kiki and billl to defend the Uk's ceremony.

And just as I suggested... the "defense" of this ceremony has absolutely nothing to do with an objective critique of a work of art... theater (for better or worse)... and everything to do with a nationalistic bias. Had the US put on a show half as lame, I have little doubt none of you would be rushing forth in defense of its aesthetic brilliance.

Either you are sitting in an ivory tower or you are conveniently ignoring the large majority of the world population, just for the sake of this argument.

Let's put it in terms simple enough for you to grasp: When it comes to art and/or aesthetic issues I don't care about the values of the rest of the world. If you want to spend your life reading Dan Brown and Harry Potter and listening to Lady Gaga and Hip-Hop because that's what the masses, prefer and you are more concerned about pandering to the tastes of the masses and not appearing "elitist"... well then more power to you. I will make a note to ignore all future comments made by you in reference to such "elitist" and "ivory tower" literature as some here embrace so as to not damage your reputation for cultural Egalitarianism.

:seeya:

[billl]

I shouldn't leave Kiki and billl to defend the Uk's ceremony.

And just as I suggested... the "defense" of this ceremony has absolutely nothing to do with an objective critique of a work of art... theater (for better or worse)... and everything to do with a nationalistic bias. Had the US put on a show half as lame, I have little doubt none of you would be rushing forth in defense of its aesthetic brilliance.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Suddenly we'd all think it was lame?

[JuniperWoolf]

People would totally bash America's opening ceremony. It doesn't even matter what they'd do, if it was too complex or simple or explosive or narrative or nationalistic or if there were too many celebrities or even one minor thing malfunctioned, they'd bash it because it's 'Muricah.

No one bashed Canada's like they're bashing the UK's or hypothetical USA's. *sigh* When we hosted the games everyone was all like "oh how cute, Canada's throwing a little party for everyone!"

[stlukesguild]

Most of Britain's modern contributions to the arts have been in comedy, film, and music. What would YOU have included that they missed?

Gee... you really can't think of any other art form that Britain made a major contribution to... and you are here wanting to talk about literature?

[Scheherazade]

~

F i n a l____R e m i n d e r

Post containing inflammatory comments towards other individuals or countries will be removed without further notice.

If you are unable to show respect towards others,

please refrain from taking part in the discussion.

~

[stlukesguild]

Yes, they took a moment which could have been pompous and self-aggrandising and turned it into comedy. That's not untypically British. Even people who work in orchestras have a sense of humour and like to have fun - shocker. I thought it was a great example of one of those rare positive British traits - good sportsmanship.

No... it was just plain stupid... and certainly not all that funny at all. I have seen far, far better performances at the symphony or the opera that employ humor and joy along with classical music quite successfully. This performance simply undermined what classical music and the LSO can be in a manner that was embarrassing to watch.

It might surprise you to know that London, and particularly the East End of London where the Olympic stadium is located, is very ethnically diverse...

Why shouldn't a black man or woman take the role of an industrialist?

I think everybody got that point... it was pretty much shoved in our face. Of course according to the statistic Britain is over 90% white with only .8% black. But none of that was the point... The point was that it seems rather insensitive to place a black actor in the role of a British industrialist for the simple reason that it paints a blatantly false picture of a history in which minorities were most certainly not the industrial power-brokers, but rather the victims of the same.

It was quite commendable to include largely non-professionals, also for the dancing.

Why? Because they do such a great job? I prefer to red literature written by professionals, look at paintings made by professionals, and listen to music made by professionals. Art is an elitist endeavor. Grandma Moses just doesn't cut it in comparison to Picasso.

[billl]

Ah, so everyone's going to think Blacks were running things back then.

[stlukesguild]

People would totally bash America's opening ceremony. It doesn't even matter what they'd do, if it was too complex or simple or explosive or narrative or nationalistic or if there were too many celebrities or even one minor thing malfunctioned, they'd bash it because it's 'Muricah.

No one bashed Canada's like they're bashing the UK's or hypothetical USA's. *sigh* When we hosted the games everyone was all like "oh how cute, Canada's throwing a little party for everyone!"

Canada hosted the Olympics?:goof::confused::D

[stlukesguild]

Ah, so everyone's going to think Blacks were running things back then.

This really can't be all that difficult for you to understand. Why not imagine an American bit of theater with black plantation owners in the Old South. It has nothing to do with authenticity.

[billl]

Not plantation owners, rail barons. The point is it wasn't about authenticity--and neither was it a poke in the eye of the race that the performers belonged to.

[Lokasenna]

Well yeah, that just furthers the point: most pubs in London are older than my country and it would STILL be tedious covering it all. Covering the UK's history would be impossible, and boring as hell if they tried. It's the opening ceremony, not social studies class.

As a medievalist, I was sort of miffed that British history seemed to begin just before the Industrial Revolution... but, as you say, it would have been a bit tedious (not to mention many, many hours) to cover everything from Stonehenge onwards...

My two cents, for what they are worth, is that I thought it a very enjoyable show. Of course it's not high art, of course it paints a distorted view of history, of course it's reductionary and selective, of course it's populist - but none of that matters, because that's not the point of it. The opening ceremony is a pageant, not a political statement nor an encapsulation of my country's ethos and contribution to the world. With tongue firmly in cheek, instead of trying to beat China on terms of pure spectacle (which would have been near-impossible), what we gave was somehow quite initimate, conveying some essential quality unique to Britain. I don't particularly mind my country coming across as the mad uncle of the world - mad uncles are always fun, and have usually done a lot of great and interesting things in their long lives.

Speaking as someone who has absolutely no interest in sport whatsoever, and who dislikes and distrusts the Torch Relay for the cheap, nasty, tawdry, third-rate Third Reich knock-off that it is, I found the opening ceremony both spectacular and meaningful, even if I would have preferred more Shakespeare and less rapping.

[JuniperWoolf]

My two cents, for what they are worth, is that I thought it a very enjoyable show.

Did you catch the TARDIS sound?!?

[kiki1982]

And just as I suggested... the "defense" of this ceremony has absolutely nothing to do with an objective critique of a work of art... theater (for better or worse)... and everything to do with a nationalistic bias. Had the US put on a show half as lame, I have little doubt none of you would be rushing forth in defense of its aesthetic brilliance.

Let's put it in terms simple enough for you to grasp: When it comes to art and/or aesthetic issues I don't care about the values of the rest of the world. If you want to spend your life reading Dan Brown and Harry Potter and listening to Lady Gaga and Hip-Hop because that's what the masses, prefer and you are more concerned about pandering to the tastes of the masses and not appearing "elitist"... well then more power to you. I will make a note to ignore all future comments made by you in reference to such "elitist" and "ivory tower" literature as some here embrace so as to not damage your reputation for cultural Egalitarianism

Nationalist feelings?!? I might be married to a Briton, but I am not one, you know. I don't even live over the Channel!
I am normally very critical and the Chinese one was lacking in everything but spectacle. I agree, like Lokasenna, that there could have been some more high culture and British history was very short until 1750, but it would have been boring, unorginal and uninteresting (apart from for a very few).

It's not about being elitist or not and it is not about critisising this work of art. That has nothing to do with it. See it as a film (incidentally, the director of this show is also an award-winning film director): there are people who are into film and who see references to Hitchkock, Cubric, Allen etc. Even from decades back. Then there are those in the audience who just care about the story. It's not because you are making a good film that you have to cut out the latter part of the audience. And that is what the director of this show tried to do and which he succeeded at.
If you did not get that, I suggest you watch the BBC commentary. Apparently, the NBC's coverage was so ignorant, bashing, negative and abysmal that halfway through, viewers switched to BBC and a Twitter campaign entitled 'Shut up Matt Lauer' started spontaneously.


No... it was just plain stupid... and certainly not all that funny at all. I have seen far, far better performances at the symphony or the opera that employ humor and joy along with classical music quite successfully. This performance simply undermined what classical music and the LSO can be in a manner that was embarrassing to watch.

Yes, well, explaining a joke doesn't really make the other one laugh, does it.
Then you didn't get it. Don't worry about it.
The idea of critisising a work of art is then to look at the good points and the bad points, not to bash it to death.


I think everybody got that point... it was pretty much shoved in our face. Of course according to the statistic Britain is over 90% white with only .8% black. But none of that was the point... The point was that it seems rather insensitive to place a black actor in the role of a British industrialist for the simple reason that it paints a blatantly false picture of a history in which minorities were most certainly not the industrial power-brokers, but rather the victims of the same.

You completely missed the point.

The idea was not that they were the UK Games put by accident in Stratford, London becuse there happened to be some derilict land. The idea was they were Games that were going to be put on by the people of the UK, in the East End and hosted by the East End. The East End is incredibly diverse and it was made clear from the start that the East End was going to be involved in this massively. Not only in lending their ground and putting up with the disruption, but also by providing the workers (ok, some of that went wrong), the volunteers for managing the visitors, the people in the show, et-ce-te-ra. So, therefore, the diversity of the East End was reflected in the show.

And no, there were not really black factory owners (you would have to check this, there could have been), BUT the show was not about authenticity. As the little James Bond sketch showed, the show was a merging between reality and virtual images, reality of what is happening on stage and the one outside the venue where people are watching (a dynamic you always have in every life show). Maybe a kind of Volkstheater-concept like Horvath and Brecht. As such, the 'reality' in the stadium of a black guy in rich garments was a merging of old and new Britain where blacks/Asians/mixed race people have the same rights and the same opportunities as the whites next to them. That was authentic as far as the 21st century reality outside the stadium went.


Why? Because they do such a great job? I prefer to red literature written by professionals, look at paintings made by professionals, and listen to music made by professionals. Art is an elitist endeavor. Grandma Moses just doesn't cut it in comparison to Picasso.

They did a good job.
I am not a professional dancer, but personally I couldn't see anything wrong with it.
Besides, those dancers in the pop music section were amateurs, but trained amateurs.


The opening ceremony is a pageant, not a political statement nor an encapsulation of my country's ethos and contribution to the world. With tongue firmly in cheek, instead of trying to beat China on terms of pure spectacle (which would have been near-impossible), what we gave was somehow quite initimate, conveying some essential quality unique to Britain. I don't particularly mind my country coming across as the mad uncle of the world - mad uncles are always fun, and have usually done a lot of great and interesting things in their long lives.

hear, hear
Some critics have missed the point that it is indeed not a show of strength. Was it Russia who started the over-stated opening ceremony and then Los Angeles of course had to do better. And now we are ciritcising the British for toning the chest-beating down a little.


Speaking as someone who has absolutely no interest in sport whatsoever, and who dislikes and distrusts the Torch Relay for the cheap, nasty, tawdry, third-rate Third Reich knock-off that it is, I found the opening ceremony both spectacular and meaningful, even if I would have preferred more Shakespeare and less rapping.

Apparently they also had a big hand in the Greek one where the fire is lit (it is quite creepy, actually, you can even see it that it is 1930s fascist nonsense). For this reason, I think someone should stop this, but maybe we have moved on... It's difficult to take it away now.


Did you catch the TARDIS sound?!?

Was there a tardis sound?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Complain, complain, complain...



I didn't even notice because they're actors. Everyone already knows that black people in top hats were an uncommon (although really not unheard of) sight, they aren't going to the opening ceremony of the olympics for an accurate representation of Great Britain's racial make-up at the turn of the twentieth century. I think I only saw one black extra in top hat gear anyway. Like Pip said, should they have just told that one guy "sorry bud, you're black?"



Most of Britain's modern contributions to the arts have been in comedy, film, and music. What would YOU have included that they missed?

I don't think I've been complaining all that much. I've pointed out things I enjoyed and things I didn't enjoy while also making it clear I've never been a huge fan of Olympic opening ceremonies in general. It's not like I'm picking on Britain. I didn't have a problem with them casting black people beyond thinking it was dumb casting, not because I was offended, as I said. I'm not an expert on British history, and maybe there isn't anything else they could've highlighted artistically besides Harry Potter and Mary Poppins, though I kind of doubt that since they've been around for over a thousand years. Honestly, I think I've been quite fair with my critiques. What do you want me to do, just lie and go, "Oh man, the whole thing was great, I LOVED all of it"?

Anyways, I was listening to the radio and a "personality" mentioned something else I found funny while watching, and that was the Queen. Would it have killed her to crack a smile? It looked like she was attending a funeral. Of course, she always looks like that.




How can you show immigrants coming to Britain from Jamaica without somehow representing the slave trade? We could then show how people like Frederick Douglass came to Birtain to buy his freedom from British abolitonists. The greatest abolshonist of all time (in my opinion) got his freedom and education in Britain! It is where he got his first public platforms to speak out against slavery in his native US. That is an incredible thing.

But wait, that would offend Americans!

Why would that offend Americans?




Correction: it's not England but The United Kingdom. England is one country in the nation comprised of many. Also, the United Kingdom does not have 'founding fathers'. This section was representative of the Industrial Revolution which covered the period 1750 - 1850 during which the factory system became prevalent. The country had been around for a while by then :D



I said "founding fathers (I guess you'd call them that)" clearly indicating I wasn't sure. Thanks for the pedantry, though. :rolleyes:


Also, what's wrong with the torch ceremony, exactly? How is it a "third-rate Third Reich knock-off"?

[Emil Miller]

Reading these posts is informative. It seems as though the organisers, at a loss as to what to do for an opening ceremony, decided to play silly buggers rather than think of something truly original. That way they could say, whatever the outcome, that they were only being their well known English eccentric selves, while at the same time using the nonsense to cover the left-wing subtext of the whole enterprise

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

left-wing subtext of the whole enterprise

Please elaborate. I need to hear this.

[Lokasenna]

Did you catch the TARDIS sound?!?

I've been told there was one there, but I didn't catch it myself!

[kiki1982]

Suddenly that avatar of yours becomes reality ;).

No, you're alright though. You at least know what you didn't like and why. Better than saying, 'Oh, man, that was all sh*te.'

Incidentally, for those who were complaining that there was no classical music, we have had:

A rendering of Nimrod by Elgar
Händel's Music to the Royal Fireworks for the Queen's role in her little film
Renderings of the anthems, including Jerusalem by Blake and Parry

[JuniperWoolf]

I've been told there was one there, but I didn't catch it myself!


Was there a tardis sound?

Yeah! I found it on youtube the other day but I guess the olympic committee made them take it down, so here's an article (http://www.examiner.com/article/tardis-sound-included-2012-olympic-opening-ceremonies). It was during the pop bit, right when they started playing Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen, and I flipped out. For years now I was saying "I hope they include the Doctor in the opening ceremony," so everyone said that I was looking so hard that I imagined it. Hahaaa, it turns out that I'm not (quite that) crazy!

[Sancho]

I heard they were going to play in leggings and long sleeved T-shirts because of the chilly weather - so that's not true, then? :p

Partially true, they were partially clad.

They ought to consider holding the Summer Olympics somewhere with more summer-like weather, oh yes, and maybe with a good beach. Hmmm. Wait! I know! How about Rio?

[papayahed]

Partially true, they were partially clad.

They ought to consider holding the Summer Olympics somewhere with more summer-like weather, oh yes, and maybe with a good beach. Hmmm. Wait! I know! How about Rio?

That's crazy, they'll never give it to Rio.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Suddenly that avatar of yours becomes reality ;).


To whom was this referring?

[stlukesguild]

They ought to consider holding the Summer Olympics somewhere with more summer-like weather, oh yes, and maybe with a good beach. Hmmm. Wait! I know! How about Rio?

Now THAT should be an interesting show... as long as they don't hire some Eurotrash director ala the LA Opera's recent Wagner Ring Cycle debacle.

And we already know that Rio is more than experienced with staging a wild party in the form of their yearly Carnival:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_revistasfreecom-054.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=revistasfreecom-054.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_1235477123_carnaval_brasil_14.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=1235477123_carnaval_brasil_14.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_800px-Carnival_in_Rio_de_Janeiro.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=800px-Carnival_in_Rio_de_Janeiro.jpg)

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

What are referring to when you mention the "the LA Opera's recent Wagner Ring Cycle debacle"?


Also, I think I figured out why the queen looked so pissed:

http://i.imgur.com/k42fz.jpg

[stlukesguild]

"Eurotrash Theater" or "Regie Theater" refers to a recent development in the field of opera in which the producers and directors somehow imagine that they (and not the composer) are the most important "artists" involved in a given production. The resulting works are outlandish productions which in many ways completely undermine and even mock the original intention of the composer. In one recent production of Verdi's Un ballo maschera (The Masked Ball), an opera that involved intrigue in an unnamed European court, the producers re-staged it in the ruins of the World Trade Center and replaced the various courtiers and aristocrats at the masked ball with nudes in Mickey Mouse masks:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7115/7682070668_be15e26da4_m.jpg (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7115/7682070668_be15e26da4.jpg)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7682070786_2f2d029c78_m.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7682070786_2f2d029c78_z.jpg)

One of the absolute worst Eurotrash productions ever staged has to be of the somewhat obscure composer, Franz Schreker's marvelous opera, Die Gezeichneten (the Branded or Stigmatized). The original is set in Renaissance Italy where the protagonist is an aristocrat and artist... who is also a hunchback. A woman who declares herself to only be interested in the "higher" attributes in a man, such as intelligence and and creativity, falls in love with him overlooking his appearance. But ultimately she dumps him for the handsome Alpha-Male (sounds like a discussion we recently had).

The producer re-stages this with the aristocratic protagonist... wandering trough what appears to be a lunar landscape... is now now dressed like a drag queen in a pink glittery evening gown and combat boots and spend most of the overture trying out the latest line of Mary Kay cosmetics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IMU4rfCUtE

The LA Opera spent some $35 million staging Wagner Ring Cycle. The company and the city had been trying to stage the Ring for nearly a decade. There were more than enough interested patrons to sell out any descent production. Unfortunately, the director placed in charge turned the cycle... set in a pseudo-medieval world of Nordic/Germanic gods and heroes... into a three ring circus with elements of Star Wars (complete with light-sabers), TRON, German Expressionist paintings, and Ren and Stimpy. The result was an absolute comic farce. Patrons demanded refunds and following early critical commentary and word of mouth, the performances failed to sell out. The LA Opera had to turn to the City of LA in the middle of this recession for a $5 million bail-out.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_r-LA-OPERA-RING-CYCLE-large570.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=r-LA-OPERA-RING-CYCLE-large570.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_laring1.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=laring1.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_12.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=12.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_6a00d8341c630a53ef0115720aed13970b-800wi.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=6a00d8341c630a53ef0115720aed13970b-800wi.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_6a00d8341c630a53ef0133ed8c59d1970b.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=6a00d8341c630a53ef0133ed8c59d1970b.jpg)

Wagner would have rightfully beat the director to a pulp.

[Emil Miller]

Please elaborate. I need to hear this.

The subtext being that mass immigration and the destruction of the nation state
is good for you.



Also, I think I figured out why the queen looked so pissed:

http://i.imgur.com/k42fz.jpg

She's probably thinking 'Rather than having to watch this rubbish, I'd prefer to be home watching Britain's Got Talent.'

[Paulclem]

The subtext being that mass immigration and the destruction of the nation state
is good for you.




Rather than watching the amateurish nonsense, she's probably wishing that she'd stayed in the helicopter rather than being parachuted into the middle of it all.

Mass is an emotive word, and quite imprecise. The fact is that the economic boom we had in the noughties was fuelled by immigrants adding to the workforce and all the benefits that we accrue from incresed taxation, trade in the economy etc. The business community wants immigration for the workforce, which is why you don't hear the Tory boys going on about it more than they need to to appese the local conservatives.


The poor old Queen. She is 86 after all, and though I'm not a Royalist, I think we should let her off having to stay for the duration of events like this. In the picture she looks tired and should probably be abed watching it on telly.

the destruction of the nation state
is good for you

The whole idea of Britishness has been talked about quite a lot over the last few years. We have evolved, and the reality is that we are a multicultural nation where the masses - you know, the people who actually make up most of the country and do the work and pay their taxes, (rather than employing accountants to worm their way out of them), and use the services and contribute - are properly represented rather than some 1940's idea of stiff upper lips - on the few women present too - lording it over the masses.

It's a reality check for you.

[Emil Miller]

Mass is an emotive word, and quite imprecise. The fact is that the economic boom we had in the noughties was fuelled by immigrants adding to the workforce and all the benefits that we accrue from incresed taxation, trade in the economy etc. The business community wants immigration for the workforce, which is why you don't hear the Tory boys going on about it more than they need to to appese the local conservatives.


The poor old Queen. She is 86 after all, and though I'm not a Royalist, I think we should let her off having to stay for the duration of events like this. In the picture she looks tired and should probably be abed watching it on telly.

the destruction of the nation state
is good for you

The whole idea of Britishness has been talked about quite a lot over the last few years. We have evolved, and the reality is that we are a multicultural nation where the masses - you know, the people who actually make up most of the country and do the work and pay their taxes, (rather than employing accountants to worm their way out of them), and use the services and contribute - are properly represented rather than some 1940's idea of stiff upper lips - on the few women present too - lording it over the masses.

It's a reality check for you.

The economic boom was fuelled by the Thatcher government's deregulation of a moribund economy that had just been bailed out by the IMF after years of wasteful mismanagement.

We wouldn't need immigration if the indigenous workforce hadn't been depleted by the number of people who had left the country, not wanting to pay the excessive taxation and/or suffer the social engineering that saw their way of life destroyed by self-serving iconoclasts.
You might find it useful to read my novel Pro Bono Publico and get your own reality check. Neely wasn't afraid to read it and found it thought provoking: you can read his review in the appropriate section of the literature forum.

[Paulclem]

The economic boom was fuelled by the Thatcher government's deregulation of a moribund economy that had just been bailed out by the IMF after years of wasteful mismanagement.

We wouldn't need immigration if the indigenous workforce hadn't been depleted by the number of people who had left the country, not wanting to pay the excessive taxation and/or suffer the social engineering that saw their way of life destroyed by self-serving iconoclasts.
You might find it useful to read my novel Pro Bono Publico and get your own reality check. Neely wasn't afraid to read it and found it thought provoking: you can read his review in the appropriate section of the literature forum.

I wonder why there was a recession under Major?


There is an indiginous workforce - some of whom have been unemployed for years. The few die hard layabouts aside, I think questions about the quality of the old National Curriculum, and subsequent goverments' failure to build upon the basics to produce a literate, numerate and technically minded workforce might be more pertinant.

I can see where you're coming from, and I'm coming from the other end of the social scale. We'd perhaps never agree.

Thanks for the recommendation.

[Emil Miller]

I wonder why there was a recession under Major?


There is an indiginous workforce - some of whom have been unemployed for years. The few die hard layabouts aside, I think questions about the quality of the old National Curriculum, and subsequent goverments' failure to build upon the basics to produce a literate, numerate and technically minded workforce might be more pertinant.

I can see where you're coming from, and I'm coming from the other end of the social scale. We'd perhaps never agree.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Major was weak and ineffectual. The novel ends in 1979 with Mrs Thatcher's accession to power, long before Major arrived on the scene. All the politicians portrayed whether Labour, Conservative or Liberal get short shrift in the book until Thatcher rides in like the 7th Cavalry at the end.

[prendrelemick]

Anyway, The Olympics...


According to the BBC commentators, Great Britain "Win" their medals. Countries we like "Take" their medals. Everyone else "Snatches" theirs.

[Anton Hermes]

According to the BBC commentators, Great Britain "Win" their medals. Countries we like "Take" their medals. Everyone else "Snatches" theirs.

My wife is distressed that American commentators now use the word medal to mean win a medal: "The US team has yet to medal in this competition."

According to linguists, this harkens back to an archaic use of the word. So its validity is arguable, but its irritation factor is absolutely certain.

[stlukesguild]

According to the BBC commentators, Great Britain "Win" their medals. Countries we like "Take" their medals. Everyone else "Snatches" theirs.

Of course... if we lost to some "ineffectual" nation our commentators would be suggesting some abnormality and that the event was "stolen".

Sports seems to be one of those things that brings out the best... and worst in people. Tying these events to nations only increases this reality.

I seriously haven't watched the Olympics in years in spite of the fact that I have a close-friend/studio mate who narrowly missed making the Olympic time trials in the marathon (the true Olympic event) and a high-school acquaintance who did make the team several years back. I ended up being talked into watching the opening ceremonies by another friend who called me up and declared that I had to see this absolutely spectacular event. There were a few moments I found quite marvelous (such as the cauldron), but overall I was sorely disappointed. Now I wish I'd popped a video in the DVD player instead.

By the way... did anyone else think that the entire event looked like an overblown advertisement for Apple. It seemed as if every athlete, dancer, and actor was sporting an i-phone.

[Paulclem]

My wife is distressed that American commentators now use the word medal to mean win a medal: "The US team has yet to medal in this competition."

According to linguists, this harkens back to an archaic use of the word. So its validity is arguable, but its irritation factor is absolutely certain.

I like the ability of English be flexible. In my opinion it is a democratic phenomenon: if people like it, then the word spreads and is used by the populace. What I like about it is that there is no body that allows or disallows. I also like the fact that it winds up crusty grammarians - not that I'm suggesting that you are one. :D

[stlukesguild]

My wife is distressed that American commentators now use the word medal to mean win a medal: "The US team has yet to medal in this competition."

It often seems as if the higher up the food chain you get... in career terms... the worst and more biased the announcers. I can't speak on the BBC announcers... as I've stated, I'm not watching... although we can get a direct feed through the computer. My father, who was a hardcore fan of the ever suffering Cleveland Indians used to turn off the national announcers if/when the team ever made it to the play-offs (or a player made it to the All-Star Game) for the simple reason that the national announcers would always make the most ignorant and bias comments.

I like the ability of English be flexible. In my opinion it is a democratic phenomenon: if people like it, then the word spreads and is used by the populace.

I agree... I think that the ability to absorb new words, foreign words, slang, techno-based words is one of the strengths of the English language... just as the cross-pollination of cultures through trade, immigration... and sad to say, military action, has been essential to the cultural developments of many of the worlds leading nations.

[Anton Hermes]

I like the ability of English be flexible. In my opinion it is a democratic phenomenon: if people like it, then the word spreads and is used by the populace. What I like about it is that there is no body that allows or disallows. I also like the fact that it winds up crusty grammarians - not that I'm suggesting that you are one. :D

No offense taken. I don't watch sports coverage for the linguistic richness anyway. And we'll all be speaking in acronyms and one-syllable leetspeak soon enough.

[kiki1982]

According to the BBC commentators, Great Britain "Win" their medals. Countries we like "Take" their medals. Everyone else "Snatches" theirs.

:lol: I'll have to pay more attention to that one.
I wonder what verb they use for China...


My wife is distressed that American commentators now use the word medal to mean win a medal: "The US team has yet to medal in this competition."

According to linguists, this harkens back to an archaic use of the word. So its validity is arguable, but its irritation factor is absolutely certain.


I like the ability of English be flexible. In my opinion it is a democratic phenomenon: if people like it, then the word spreads and is used by the populace. What I like about it is that there is no body that allows or disallows. I also like the fact that it winds up crusty grammarians - not that I'm suggesting that you are one. :D

I like that too. So much nicer.

[Babyguile]

I love the term 'to medal' and I've been hearing it a lot too. Now, I hate it when silly-sounding slang words and phrases make it into popular vernaclar; but, to me, 'to medal' sounds really nice: a nice, clipped phrase. I probably won't like it when if I hear an American say it though, sorry yanks.

[Emil Miller]

It seems that the touchy feely inclusiveness of the opening ceremony isn't working, according to this item from a review of North Korea's 4th place in the medal table. Perhaps they should have had more rap groups:

Despite the Queen and James Bond providing inspiration in the opening ceremony, Great Britain are languishing in 20th in the medal table.

[stlukesguild]

Emil... where's the link?

[Emil Miller]

Emil... where's the link?

Boris Johnson, London's Lord Mayor, said that the opening ceremony knocked spots off that of Beijing and that Team GB were going to take enough medals to bail out Greece and Spain from the Euro crisis. Well he would say that wouldn't he?

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/london-2012-north-korea-provide-early-shock-of-the-olympic-games-with-growing-medal-haul-7994678.html

[stlukesguild]

Emil... one correction. It's the Republic of Korea ie. South Korea that is currently in forth place in the rankings. The rankings are based by weighting the various medals (gold, silver, bronze). Japan, Italy, and Russia actually have more medals as of the present. North Korea... the ironically named Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is ranked 5th but only has 4 medals overall... the same as the UK... and 4 less than is currently held by South Korea with 4 Gold, 2 Silver, 2 Bronze.

http://www.london2012.com/medals/

[Babyguile]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/london-2012-north-korea-provide-early-shock-of-the-olympic-games-with-growing-medal-haul-7994678.html

What lurid chest-beating. North Korea is the epitome of an uber-masculist dicatorship. It would be comedic if it wasn't so tragic.

[kiki1982]

One of the riders who got silver in the team eventing used the verb. My husbby says they have used it for years...

[tonywalt]

The Japanese have really cool haircuts, but the Chinese - not so much.

[Helga]

The Japanese have really cool haircuts, but the Chinese - not so much.

So the gold for the best haircut goes toooooo the Japanese!!!!!!!

[Emil Miller]

Emil... one correction. It's the Republic of Korea ie. South Korea that is currently in forth place in the rankings. The rankings are based by weighting the various medals (gold, silver, bronze). Japan, Italy, and Russia actually have more medals as of the present. North Korea... the ironically named Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is ranked 5th but only has 4 medals overall... the same as the UK... and 4 less than is currently held by South Korea with 4 Gold, 2 Silver, 2 Bronze.



Well I agree that the situation is, to say the least. fluid. However, this extract from the article quoted is very amusing:

The list of North Korean sporting prowess had previously been topped by the much-reported occasion in 1994 on which the “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-il “officially” shot a 38-under par round of golf that included 11 hole-in-one.

[Paulclem]

It seems that the touchy feely inclusiveness of the opening ceremony isn't working, according to this item from a review of North Korea's 4th place in the medal table. Perhaps they should have had more rap groups:

Despite the Queen and James Bond providing inspiration in the opening ceremony, Great Britain are languishing in 20th in the medal table.

Now you know as well as I do that there's no link between how the ceremony is done and how athletes are brought on. As has been pointed out, the Olympics is about an elite, but I think it is creditable that the opening tried to represent the reality of Britain's population today.

How we do for medals is down to the limitations of our population, training etc. We're not doing so badly if you look at the near medal misses.

Anyway, why aren't you representing your country?

You'd be great in the 100m curmudgeon. :lol:

[Emil Miller]

Now you know as well as I do that there's no link between how the ceremony is done and how athletes are brought on. As has been pointed out, the Olympics is about an elite, but I think it is creditable that the opening tried to represent the reality of Britain's population today.

Unfortunately it did that all too well.


How we do for medals is down to the limitations of our population, training etc. We're not doing so badly if you look at the near medal misses.

While I would agree that anyone who is chosen for the Olympics is worthy of recognition, near misses are no substitute for winning.


Anyway, why aren't you representing your country?
lol:

I'm no longer sure that it is my country.

[Paulclem]

I'm no longer sure that it is my country.

It goes along with my increasing suspicion that none of us live quite in the same realm, but inhabit worlds which cross over each other, sometimes seamlessly and sometimes not.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

How can you show immigrants coming to Britain from Jamaica without somehow representing the slave trade? We could then show how people like Frederick Douglass came to Birtain to buy his freedom from British abolitonists. The greatest abolshonist of all time (in my opinion) got his freedom and education in Britain! It is where he got his first public platforms to speak out against slavery in his native US. That is an incredible thing.

But wait, that would offend Americans!

Why would that offend Americans?

[prendrelemick]

So the gold for the best haircut goes toooooo the Japanese!!!!!!!



Ha! Thats the kind of criteria Mrs P has always used to decide who deserves to be given a medal.

- "And Michael Phelps becomes the Greatest Olympian ever"
Mrs P: "Yes but he's wearing grey!"

So far the Russian Gymnasts' track suits have impressed her the most.


Meanwhile I am enjoying the Hockey. I was Hockey Captain at college so am able to give my expert commentry to my long suffering family.
It's such a novelty to be able to actually see the ball on that bright blue pitch.

[kiki1982]

Why would that offend Americans?

I think you're probably looking at a small minority, but a minority which rules the roost in terms of what comes on TV, because, 'Oh, they wouldn't want to risk offending them.'
It's like that in terms of swearing on the BBC at least.


Ha! Thats the kind of criteria Mrs P has always used to decide who deserves to be given a medal.

- "And Michael Phelps becomes the Greatest Olympian ever"
Mrs P: "Yes but he's wearing grey!"

So far the Russian Gymnasts' track suits have impressed her the most.


Meanwhile I am enjoying the Hockey. I was Hockey Captain at college so am able to give my expert commentry to my long suffering family.
It's such a novelty to be able to actually see the ball on that bright blue pitch.

:lol:

I like those Russian tracksuits too. Very nice to look at.
Found the Romanian gymnastics outfits a bit confusing, though: red and yellow tracksuit like the Chinese and an outfit in white with coloured lines as their main. It was like, 'Oh, that's China. No wait, they don't look Chinese enough.'

[Paulclem]

It's been great viewing so far. The swimming was brilliant with Phelps gainingthe most Olympic medals.

Despite not "medalling" - (there, first use of that word by me), GB hadn't been in the Gymnastic team final for at least a millennia or so. Considering that, they've done very well.

I think there was a discussion a while back about physical types being most suited to certain sports. To be a male swimmer with any chance of winning, you need to be over 6ft and preferably have a pointy head.

[kiki1982]

What I was amazed about was to see two black girls and one black man competing in the gymnastics. In my short sports watching career, I have mainly seen black people in athletics, but not in those things.

One for Canada and a few for the USA.

Is that just my impression or is there a trend towards more white in gym like there is more black in running?

I hope GB medals in the time trial next :D.

No hope for my tiny little Belgium, as the BBC journalist expressed in such nice terms yesterday, announcing a Belgium swimmer, 'Well, wow, a Belgian swimmer, we haven't seen much of Belgium at all.' Thanks mate.

[kiki1982]

Drama in the badminton women's doubles today.

They have recently changed the rules in badminton: instead of being knocked out straightaway, they're now doing it like football: group stages. People had complained that you could then fix your way to the medals (if I lose X match then I'll have a better chance).

Anyway, so yesterday, a Chinese pair qualified for the semi-finals and apparently everyone wanted to avoid them, so in the next two matches, teams were blatantly trying to lose their match. To the point where in a match between China and South Korea (?) the referee asked a few times that the players play and don't play around. The Chinese pair was more stubborn and apparently none of the rallies really lasted longer than 4 strokes. Gail Ems for the BBC said her 2.5 year-old could probably play better.

Anyway, so now, all fours pairs have been charged with not playing to their best ability and officials, coaches etc. are in a meeting to decide whether to disqualify the four pairs involved or not. That would be some drama, wouldn't it.

[Paulclem]

Wahey! Gold for Wiggins in the cycling time trials and a gold for the women's rowing pairs. Excellent.

[prendrelemick]

Bradley has had the greatest year ever.

[kiki1982]

Honorary sideburns anyone? :D

The 8 badminton players were disqualified, but that's old news now.

Sadly GB's team of 8 rowers lost their great lead and ended 3td. Still great but was a massive disappointment for them. Bless.

GB's gymnasts were doing well the last time I looked.

[Paulclem]

Honorary sideburns anyone? :D

The 8 badminton players were disqualified, but that's old news now.

Sadly GB's team of 8 rowers lost their great lead and ended 3td. Still great but was a massive disappointment for them. Bless.

GB's gymnasts were doing well the last time I looked.

I watched the end of the rowing on a big screen in town.

[kiki1982]

My hubby and I were screaming at the television for the men's 8. It's such a shame that they couldn't keep up with Germany in the end. Shame too that the Canadians had something left... It looked sooooooo promising.

Still, even then it's a great achievement.

Was it fun, there in the park?

[Paulclem]

The screen is just by a cafe we frequent in the centre of town. Our niece is staying with us for couple of days, and we were just passing when the race was on. The atomosphere was great with a fair old crowd of passers by stopping and watching.

[Sancho]

Well, I was browzing the thread and I came across this gem:


My wife is distressed that American commentators now use the word medal to mean win a medal: "The US team has yet to medal in this competition."

According to linguists, this harkens back to an archaic use of the word. So its validity is arguable, but its irritation factor is absolutely certain.

So, I decided to make it an Olympic event:

News flash, London, July, 2012, Summer Olympic Games.

Final results of the Verbing a Noun Event. Here’s who medaled:

Mark Zuckerburg snatched the Bronze with his use of the noun, Friend.
Social Networkers no longer make friends, or win your friendship, or even befriend you. They just friend you.

El Sancho took Silver when his Grandma gave him a necktie for his birthday, and he re-gifted it just as quickly as he could re-address the package to his cousin, Fred.

The Gold medal was won by La Señora Sancho for the verbing of a proper noun: After El Sancho did a less-than superb job of trimming the hedges last weekend, Mrs. Sancho commented, “Sheesh, You really Sancho-ed up the shrubbery, hon.

[prendrelemick]

Good idea Sancho, but we must have rules.

Using symbols eg "I (heart) you" is using performance enhancing icons.

[Paulclem]

Agreed. Iconing is definately not allowed.

Nor should there be any fancy fonting going on.

[Sancho]

Well done! Paul moves to the semifinals.

But Sancho’s next door neighbor, Duane, is DQed on a doping violation: The bumper sticker on his hunk-O-junk pickup truck says:


I (heart) squirrel
It’s what’s for dinner

[stlukesguild]

I just looove how they do the ranking based on medals. Russia, with 17 total medals ranks below North Korea with only 5 for the simple reason that North Korea has one more gold, while Japan, with 19 fares even worse, coming beneath not only North Korea, but also Kazakhstan and South Africa, who have but 3 medals each, in spite of Japan's haul of 19.

http://www.london2012.com/medals/medal-count/

[JuniperWoolf]

I think I like how they list them based on how many gold they have, I think it more honestly takes the little countries into account. For example, had North Korea not have won a gold Japan might have, but since the top prize was taken by Korea Japan takes silver or bronze and so their medal should be ranked as less valuable than the gold. Maybe they should use a points system, like one gold is worth three points, a silver worth two, and a bronze worth one.

[kiki1982]

But that would turn out the same, wouldn't it?

GB has just won the women's double skulls! And Ennis ran a world record in the athletics.

[JuniperWoolf]

But that would turn out the same, wouldn't it?

No, because one gold = three bronze, so if a country has four bronze they would be ranked above a country with one gold, whereas right now as it is if you have one gold you're ranked above all other nations who have none, no matter how many bronze or silver they have.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

All I know is that USA is kicking some ***! USA, USA, USA! :patriot:

[Lokasenna]

All I know is that USA is kicking some ***! USA, USA, USA! :patriot:

As indeed are we - four gold medals in 24 hours!

The Empire is kicking some a**e! Great Britain, Great Britain, Great Britain!

...nope, just doesn't work for us Brits. We can't do cheery patriotism, except in the presence of bunting. I'll just have to complain about the weather instead.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I can teach you, young padawan.

[cacian]

La difference entre athlets and athletics?
I thoughts athletics meant all the sports the athlets do but just found athletics is a different sports to all the others they have competed in already ...hmmm.

[prendrelemick]

Three cheers for the brits!


Pip ray, pip ray, pip ray.


To be honest, that doesn't work either.

[kiki1982]

No, because one gold = three bronze, so if a country has four bronze they would be ranked above a country with one gold, whereas right now as it is if you have one gold you're ranked above all other nations who have none, no matter how many bronze or silver they have.

Gosh yes, so much for my maths then :blush:. I think I was presuming at least 2 gold medals or something...


As indeed are we - four gold medals in 24 hours!

The Empire is kicking some a**e! Great Britain, Great Britain, Great Britain!

...nope, just doesn't work for us Brits. We can't do cheery patriotism, except in the presence of bunting. I'll just have to complain about the weather instead.

I love the e after 'a**'. Yes, an American 'a**' is just a very oldfashioned donkey, isn't it? :D

I have been supporting GB. No use supporting my own country, they always give everything for qualification and then invariably fail (apart from a handful like Gevaert who has now retired; I believe Hellebaut is still doing the highjump). I have given up. Supporting a team that wins is much nicer :D.

I love how these mothers and fathers help small as yet clueless children to wave their Union Jack. It's so cute. 'Look, son, that's how you do it. Now, remember for next time alright.' And there they go, they can barely walk, but they will wave their Union Jack. Aah.
Yeah, you can be patriotic, provided you have a flag to back it up :D.

Ian Thorpe is a great commentator too!

[Paulclem]

I'm enjoying these games more than any other in the past. Here in the UK there's the feeling that it's right on your doorstep.

Where are we in the medal table now then Emil?:lol:

[Emil Miller]

I'm enjoying these games more than any other in the past. Here in the UK there's the feeling that it's right on your doorstep.

Where are we in the medal table now then Emil?:lol:

No.4, behind South Korea. :lol: and it's still early days.

[Paulclem]

No.4, behind South Korea. :lol: and it's still early days.

I know - just winding you up. :D

[Emil Miller]

I know - just winding you up. :D

:lol: Not possible, I've been doing it for too long with the kids on the forum not to know when someone else is trying it on.

[kiki1982]

Oh, if you turn the BBC on, you can't watch anything else but the Olympics! They even have 20 channels where you can follow anything that is going on. And when you get up, you can see the highlights. Then, at lunch, they offer you a packed lunch and then in the evening, I have just noticed, you can see that as well. :lol: It's 24 hour broadcasting. I though Beijing was amazing...
And they have got anyone out to give commentry that they could find, they even got the father of a South-African (?) swimmer out again because they found him such fun! Bert.

I have just found out, though, that a Belgian got a silver medal in carabine shooting. yay!

That USA gymnast, Gabrielle Douglas (?), she was good! Amazing.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yeah, we really kicked *** in gymnastics this year. I guess China didn't get any of their 12 year olds through. Too bad Nastia Liukin didn't get on the team, though. I very much enjoyed looking at her.

And of course we got the Phelps, more Olympic medals than anyone ever in any event. There's not much we Americans like to do than celebrate our own greatness . . . So suck it, world!

Also, is arse censored? Nope. You're good to go, Lok.

[stlukesguild]

MM- Also, is arse censored? Nope. You're good to go, Lok.

I protest!!! This is a clear sign of nationalistic bias!!! A** is censored, but not Arse?!!! I'll bet you're allowed to say Merde, Putz, and Scheiß as well.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

MM- Also, is arse censored? Nope. You're good to go, Lok.

I protest!!! This is a clear sign of nationalistic bias!!! A** is censored, but not Arse?!!! I'll bet your allowed to say Merde, Putz, and Scheiß as well.

Hmmm, and can it be only coincidence that the head moderator is British? I daresay no, sir!

[Sancho]

Three cheers for the brits!


Pip ray, pip ray, pip ray.


To be honest, that doesn't work either.

How about:

Rule Britannia, Marmalade and Jam
Three Chinese Crackers up your…Oh, never mind

BAM, BAM, BAM!

So, bugger off, yew wankers.

[stlukesguild]

Clearly nothing more than petty jealousy in response to the undeniable hegemony of the United States over the once proud British Empire (upon whom the sun never sat) in all things military, economic, and cultural.

And we're kicking your arses in the Olympics as well!
:ciappa:

:patriot::brow::rolleyes:

:smilielol5:

[Sancho]

Bollocks!

I'll be gobsmacked.

It’s been a jolly good show.

Bob’s your uncle.

Cheerio, chaps.

[Sancho]

Don’t know if you guys in the UK are getting this, but I was fairly taken by this Nike commercial.

Find your greatness, London, 2012:

http://youtu.be/Nz1gWajl0g8

The best part comes last. Little kid off the 10 meter platform.

[prendrelemick]

How about:

Rule Britannia, Marmalade and Jam
Three Chinese Crackers up your…Oh, never mind

BAM, BAM, BAM!

So, bugger off, yew wankers.


Spoken like a native!

[billl]

I wanted to see more judo, but I've not really been scouring the listings and planning things out--I've decided to just turn the daytime coverage on if I get the chance, and then see what's happening.

So I was really lucky I think to at least see the last couple minutes of the 80kg (I think it was) female final, where a U.S. woman won the gold. Even better than that, I got to see the athlete I was most curious about in these entire games, the Saudi female judo (http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/a-saudi-womans-historic-judo-match-in-pictures) player--I only saw a replay of some moments from her brief match, but I was glad I got to see that much finally.

Also, swimming and gymnastics fatigue meant I'd gotten down to probably less than 5 minutes total viewing in the evenings (when I'm the most likely to be home and not busy), but tonight I caught a blessed glimpse of people running around a track! I'll get very tired of that too eventually, but it's a nice change of pace right now, and there are some track events I'm looking forward to.

[Emil Miller]

Bollocks!

I'll be gobsmacked.

It’s been a jolly good show.

Bob’s your uncle.

Cheerio, chaps.

Now look here my good man! It doesn't do to have ex-colonials abusing the Queen's English. Despite the lack of class in our former colonies there should always be a distinction between the acceptable and unacceptable: to whit, the use of plebeian phraseology as demonstrated in Nos. One, two and three of your examples. Whereas : 'Jolly good show' and 'Cheerio chaps', are not only acceptable but absolutely top hole.

[kiki1982]

Now look here my good man! It doesn't do to have ex-colonials abusing the Queen's English. Despite the lack of class in our former colonies there should always be a distinction between the acceptable and unacceptable: to whit, the use of plebeian phraseology as demonstrated in Nos. One, two and three of your examples. Whereas : 'Jolly good show' and 'Cheerio chaps', are not only acceptable but absolutely top hole.

:lol:


I wanted to see more judo, but I've not really been scouring the listings and planning things out--I've decided to just turn the daytime coverage on if I get the chance, and then see what's happening.

So I was really lucky I think to at least see the last couple minutes of the 80kg (I think it was) female final, where a U.S. woman won the gold. Even better than that, I got to see the athlete I was most curious about in these entire games, the Saudi female judo (http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/a-saudi-womans-historic-judo-match-in-pictures) player--I only saw a replay of some moments from her brief match, but I was glad I got to see that much finally.

Also, swimming and gymnastics fatigue meant I'd gotten down to probably less than 5 minutes total viewing in the evenings (when I'm the most likely to be home and not busy), but tonight I caught a blessed glimpse of people running around a track! I'll get very tired of that too eventually, but it's a nice change of pace right now, and there are some track events I'm looking forward to.

Don't you have the digital channels (about 10 to 20 of them)? They broadcast everything in real time. But maybe we are lucky because we work from home so we are free all day, I am ashamed to say :blush:. Although apparently they are also available on the BBC website ( they don't cease to make publicity for this).

I think the UK is doing pretty well considering its size, as is South Korea. They are not huge and they don't make te lives of their athletes a misery, yet they do win.

:icon with union jack: :ciappa:

[prendrelemick]

Just seen the Triathlon. We Brits love our brave just -missed-out -on -a- medal-but-gave-it-all athletes

[Sancho]

Now look here my good man! It doesn't do to have ex-colonials abusing the Queen's English. Despite the lack of class in our former colonies there should always be a distinction between the acceptable and unacceptable: to whit, the use of plebeian phraseology as demonstrated in Nos. One, two and three of your examples. Whereas : 'Jolly good show' and 'Cheerio chaps', are not only acceptable but absolutely top hole.

Blimey! I’ve bodged it. What a cheeky bastard I am.

Incidentally, folks up in Boston cringe too when I do my Southie routine:

“I couldn’t believe it. I musta had fwaty beeahs. Had horns out to heeah. I booted right theyah in the cop cruisah. I couldn’t believe it.”

[kiki1982]

:lol:

There were just a few medals in the rowing. The men's doubles sadly got silver instead of gold, after some drama with a broken seat. And the double women's team was so amazed that they couldn't even speak. Cute.

So now, GB has overtaken South Korea in the medals' table. :D

[stlukesguild]

Bollocks!

I'll be gobsmacked.

It’s been a jolly good show.

Bob’s your uncle.

Cheerio, chaps.

Now look here my good man! It doesn't do to have ex-colonials abusing the Queen's English. Despite the lack of class in our former colonies there should always be a distinction between the acceptable and unacceptable: to whit, the use of plebeian phraseology as demonstrated in Nos. One, two and three of your examples. Whereas : 'Jolly good show' and 'Cheerio chaps', are not only acceptable but absolutely top hole.

Yes... I must say that Americans affecting a British accent and British slang is generally as embarrassing as the British attempts to sound American by employing a poor imitation of a Texan accent.

[prendrelemick]

Must...stop...watching ....O.O.Olympics, must... get... some work done!

[stlukesguild]

I think the UK is doing pretty well considering its size, as is South Korea. They are not huge and they don't make te lives of their athletes a misery, yet they do win.

Don't fool yourself into believing that the UK is some great underdog. It is first and foremost about money. The UK is the 6th wealthiest nation in the world. You'll notice a certain link between nearly all of the wealthiest nations in the world and the Olympic Medal Count:

Wealthiest Nations:

1. United States
2. China
3. Japan
4. Germany
5. France
6. United Kingdom
7. Brazil
8. Italy
9. India
10. Canada
11. The Russian Federation
13. Australia
15. The Republic of Korea (South Korea)
16. The Netherlands


Official Ranking based on Gold Medals:

1. United States of America
2. People's Republic of China
3. Great Britain
4. Republic of Korea
5. France
6. Germany
7. Italy
8. Democratic People's Republic of Korea
9. Kazakhstan
10. Russian Federation

Ranking Based on total medals overall:

1. The United States of America
2. The People's Republic of China
3. Great Britain/The Russian Federation (tie)
4. Japan/France (tie)
5. Germany
6. Australia
7. Republic of Korea
8. Italy
9. Canada/New Zealand/Romania
10. Netherlands/Ukraine/Brazil

Obviously the wealth of a nation is linked to the amount of money they can invest in training Olympic athletes. India is the sole nation among the world's wealthiest that has not made a showing on either list, and in spite of their wealth, they are a nation in which hundreds of millions live in poverty... and a nation just beginning to really assert themselves. I doubt the Olympics are a priority. If there is any underdog in these events, it is Kazakhstan who is ranked 9th overall (based on gold medals) in spite of not even making the list of the 50 wealthiest nations in the world. North Korea is an anomaly. 119th in terms of wealth, this communist dictatorial state clearly invests heavily in training athletes as a form of propaganda... in spite of the gross poverty and famines that have ravaged the nation.

[papayahed]

That diving looks fun.

[prendrelemick]

New Olympic verb spotted! To Podium.


"The British have podiumed 25 times."

It's the same as medaled but even more pretentious.

[Emil Miller]

Yes... I must say that Americans affecting a British accent and British slang is generally as embarrassing as the British attempts to sound American by employing a poor imitation of a Texan accent.

I think Stanley Baxter does a reasonable job in the Deep South comedy routine about 3 minutes into this video. Especially since he is playing all the parts.

http://youtu.be/ZMDlTUiyqo4

[Sancho]

New Olympic verb spotted! To Podium.


"The British have podiumed 25 times."

It's the same as medaled but even more pretentious.

Mick just made the finals in the Verbing a Noun Competition.

Podiumed gets style points because it doesn’t even sound right. If somebody just podiumed, to me it sounds like they should probably wash their hands.

I’ve gotta agree with Luke on the wealth vs. medals relationship, but on a more individual level. As I was watching the athletes stroll by in opening ceremonies, I remember thinking, would you look at all of those rich kids. There are, of course, some notable exceptions. And after watching some of the events, and getting some of the profiles, I’ve adjusted my assessment somewhat. Now I look in the stands at the parents and wonder how many 401k’s and IRAs have been liquidated so that their kid might have a shot at medaling.

(the 401k and the IRA are tax-deferred retirement accounts in the U.S.)

[Sancho]

I think Stanley Baxter does a reasonable job in the Deep South comedy routine about 3 minutes into this video. Especially since he is playing all the parts.

http://youtu.be/ZMDlTUiyqo4

Funny, but not even close. Sounded to me more like a British interpretation of a Hollywood interpretation of a Southern Accent. I say Accent, but I should say Accents. There are a lot of them in the south. In the you tube clip, they were probably shooting for an aristocratic Charleston accent. And the accent in Charleston, South Carolina varies from one side of town to the other (much as it does in London). Anyway, the so called Old Southern Aristocrats live in a small area of Charleston South of Broad Street. They’re (not so) affectionately known as S.O.B.s

[prendrelemick]

Now I've got my ear in, I just heard that someone PBed in a heat.

[kiki1982]

To podium. Haven't heard that yet.

The end of an era... Phelps just swam his last race in the relay.

Ennis just won her Heptathlon miles in front (in terms of points, the thing was concluded after event 6) and GB won a surprise gold in the longjump.
Mo Fara is now running the 10,000 metres...

[Darcy88]

I love the Olympics. I am an Olympics junkie. But the fact that athletes get kicked out for tweets and cannot tweet about sponsors other than official Olympic sponsors is just wrong. This Orwellian iron-grip public opinion wields over twitter is downright frightening. If someone says something epically stupid and wrong you call them out. You challenge them. You don't ruin their lives by kicking them out of the Olympics. That is how extremists are born. We need a policy of correcting ignorance, HEALING it, not hacking it off like a gangrenous limb.

Political correctness has hurt even the Olympics, the grandest international event the human race has and has ever had.

Tragic.

[prendrelemick]

Jess Ennis (mixed race from Sheffield), Mo Farah (Somali refugee + Londoner), Greg Rutherford (ginge from MKeynes). This IS Great Britain, multicultural and very proud tonight.

[Emil Miller]

Jess Ennis (mixed race from Sheffield), Mo Farah (Somali refugee + Londoner), Greg Rutherford (ginge from MKeynes). This IS Great Britain, multicultural and very proud tonight.

Ginger and from Milton Keynes? Fate can be very cruel.

[kiki1982]

Yes, the pictures from Mo Farah and his wife were so great! That was a symbol of Britain today!

Bl**dy hell, I am getting really inapropriately lyrical about another country than mine even! :blush:

@Darcy:

That is indeed sad.
Although I saw Phelps display a jacket by Nike, which was allegedly not allowed... I wonder whether the size of the country has something to do with this? I mean, a country like the USA can afford to say, 'Stop it, we'll dieplay what we want.' A country like Luxembourg...

You haven't heard the worst of athletes being kicked out, though:

A German female rowing athlete (already out of the running, but still there until the end, obviously) got sent home after it was 'revealed' by the German press that her boyfriend could possibly have connections with neo-Nazis. I mean, please, I think we would all be outraged if we were equalled with our partners (even if we are married to them), but even worse, although they had a meeting together and 'she stressed credibly' that she does not hold these views, they still felt she had to go home and will consider how to proceed further. Very Olympic, I must say. I wish the IOC had put its foot down.

And then there is that British footballer who is merely fined for racially abusing another British player verbally after a match.

Sending someone home from the Olympics should only happen in really extraordinary circumstances, not because of PC, sponsors or something. It is a four yearly event, it is special (for whatever reason). You don't spoil that.
If we took that logic we could ban half the world from them, altough South Africa was once banned for Apartheit, apparently.

The following one is even worse:

A male athlete from a small place in the Pacific (can't remember which) who was supposed to compete in the athletics today was sent home after it was discovered he had sneaked off to a hotel and spent the night with his wife. According to the OC of his country, it was against the rules of the team. Excuse me, these people have a life and have their emotional needs. An athlete shouldn't be distracted, that is true, but if he is distracted because he misses his wife, then he's not going to perform better if he doesn't see her. Poor guy.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Olympic boxing is a complete joke.

[billl]

Nice to see Phelps win another, sorry I missed Ennis winning.

My favorite thing that I did see tonight was this photo-finish image following the women's 100m final
(Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce winning):

(click thumbnail for bigger pic)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7714795456_80e1153bf8_t.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7714795456_f59f721a87_h.jpg)

via Flickr (www.flickr.com)

[prendrelemick]

Ginger and from Milton Keynes? Fate can be very cruel.

Yes, no doubt the early struggle to overcome such appalling disadvantages of birth gave him the strengh to become an Olympic Champion.

Actually, I can't help noticing the Gingered are PBing Medaling and Podiuming alot in these games.

[prendrelemick]

Yes, the pictures from Mo Farah and his wife were so great! That was a symbol of Britain today!

Bl**dy hell, I am getting really inapropriately lyrical about another country than mine even! :blush:

@Darcy:

That is indeed sad.
Although I saw Phelps display a jacket by Nike, which was allegedly not allowed... I wonder whether the size of the country has something to do with this? I mean, a country like the USA can afford to say, 'Stop it, we'll dieplay what we want.' A country like Luxembourg...

You haven't heard the worst of athletes being kicked out, though:

A German female rowing athlete (already out of the running, but still there until the end, obviously) got sent home after it was 'revealed' by the German press that her boyfriend could possibly have connections with neo-Nazis. I mean, please, I think we would all be outraged if we were equalled with our partners (even if we are married to them), but even worse, although they had a meeting together and 'she stressed credibly' that she does not hold these views, they still felt she had to go home and will consider how to proceed further. Very Olympic, I must say. I wish the IOC had put its foot down.

And then there is that British footballer who is merely fined for racially abusing another British player verbally after a match.

Sending someone home from the Olympics should only happen in really extraordinary circumstances, not because of PC, sponsors or something. It is a four yearly event, it is special (for whatever reason). You don't spoil that.
If we took that logic we could ban half the world from them, altough South Africa was once banned for Apartheit, apparently.

The following one is even worse:

A male athlete from a small place in the Pacific (can't remember which) who was supposed to compete in the athletics today was sent home after it was discovered he had sneaked off to a hotel and spent the night with his wife. According to the OC of his country, it was against the rules of the team. Excuse me, these people have a life and have their emotional needs. An athlete shouldn't be distracted, that is true, but if he is distracted because he misses his wife, then he's not going to perform better if he doesn't see her. Poor guy.


This isn't a new thing. In Ancient Greece athletes were allowed to pass through enemy territory when going to the games. But according to Plutarch, Dion, an Archaean General, so hated tyrants he would execute any competitors he caught who came from a city ruled by a Tyrant.

Political Correctness gone mad!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Jess Ennis (mixed race from Sheffield), Mo Farah (Somali refugee + Londoner), Greg Rutherford (ginge from MKeynes). This IS Great Britain, multicultural and very proud tonight.

Go Team Sheffield! Well done and a top day for the British competitors.

Just a side note, is anyone else slightly irritated by the phrase Team GB? I prefer simply Great Britain. I don't remember it used before at previous Olympics, though I don't watch it religiously so I might be wrong. I have been enjoying what I have managed to catch of this one though.

I have been away for the week on the East coast and found it amusing to hear the presenters on local TV stations supporting athletes from 'Team East.' This was especially funny one day when nobody from 'Team East' did anything, but there was one Lithuanian athlete (or someone like that) who went to a posh school in Norwich who they were congratulating. They interviewed the matron-like head of the school about how proud they was of him/her and everything. I found this really strange but this is what you get from local TV newscasts.

Anyway, I've managed to catch some of the gold medal wins and was especially glad to see Wiggins finally get the glory he deserves.

[OrphanPip]

A Canadian broke the record for the most appearances at the Olympics yesterday, Ian Millar is competing in his 10th Summer Olympics in the equestrian jumping competition. I'm not sure what kind of athletics that really involves when a 65 year old is able to compete.

[billl]

A Canadian broke the record for the most appearances at the Olympics yesterday, Ian Millar is competing in his 10th Summer Olympics in the equestrian jumping competition. I'm not sure what kind of athletics that really involves when a 65 year old is able to compete.

Wow, it's still amazing, just to stick with anything at a world class level, for so long.

Japan has a guy who competed 48 years ago (at the 1964 Tokyo games)! He missed a BUNCH since then, though, I guess... I can't tell (from Wikipedia) if 2012 is his third Olympics or what... Still.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17284931

71 years old. He says he's getting old and isn't as strong as he used to be--but his horse understands, and helps him...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--japanese-equestrian-defies-father-time-as-oldest-competitor-at-london-olympics.html

[Babyguile]

I think the UK is doing pretty well considering its size, as is South Korea. They are not huge and they don't make te lives of their athletes a misery, yet they do win.

Don't fool yourself into believing that the UK is some great underdog. It is first and foremost about money. The UK is the 6th wealthiest nation in the world. You'll notice a certain link between nearly all of the wealthiest nations in the world and the Olympic Medal Count:

Wealthiest Nations:

1. United States
2. China
3. Japan
4. Germany
5. France
6. United Kingdom
7. Brazil
8. Italy
9. India
10. Canada
11. The Russian Federation
13. Australia
15. The Republic of Korea (South Korea)
16. The Netherlands


Official Ranking based on Gold Medals:

1. United States of America
2. People's Republic of China
3. Great Britain
4. Republic of Korea
5. France
6. Germany
7. Italy
8. Democratic People's Republic of Korea
9. Kazakhstan
10. Russian Federation

Ranking Based on total medals overall:

1. The United States of America
2. The People's Republic of China
3. Great Britain/The Russian Federation (tie)
4. Japan/France (tie)
5. Germany
6. Australia
7. Republic of Korea
8. Italy
9. Canada/New Zealand/Romania
10. Netherlands/Ukraine/Brazil

Obviously the wealth of a nation is linked to the amount of money they can invest in training Olympic athletes. India is the sole nation among the world's wealthiest that has not made a showing on either list, and in spite of their wealth, they are a nation in which hundreds of millions live in poverty... and a nation just beginning to really assert themselves. I doubt the Olympics are a priority. If there is any underdog in these events, it is Kazakhstan who is ranked 9th overall (based on gold medals) in spite of not even making the list of the 50 wealthiest nations in the world. North Korea is an anomaly. 119th in terms of wealth, this communist dictatorial state clearly invests heavily in training athletes as a form of propaganda... in spite of the gross poverty and famines that have ravaged the nation.

There is a new measure of success in these Olympics which the newspaper and BBC coverage explained proudly to its viewers/readers: Great Britain is TOP in the medal's table by number of medals in relation to its population. So lots of medals for a small population is better than lots of medals for a large population.

Compare the sheer, continental size of China and US and then consider the Britsh Isles. We have always punched above our weight but to be third is absolutely extrordinary. UK is the sixth richest nation but US and China are both considerably more wealthy and more populous than the UK.


Nice to see Phelps win another, sorry I missed Ennis winning.

My favorite thing that I did see tonight was this photo-finish image following the women's 100m final
(Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce winning):

(click thumbnail for bigger pic)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7714795456_80e1153bf8_t.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7714795456_f59f721a87_h.jpg)

via Flickr (www.flickr.com)

It's a shame the women's 100m final seemed like an afterthought (at least on British television) because of the sucess of Brits on the same night. It's usually a highlight of the games along with the men's equivalent. It's a sight to see: these powerful, determined athletes pounding down the track.

[OrphanPip]

We had a rower get a silver in her 6th Olympic appearance a few days ago too, although she now competes as coxwain (she calls the strokes and sets pace) for the 8 woman boat.


There is a new measure of success in these Olympics which the newspaper and BBC coverage explained proudly to its viewers/readers: Great Britain is TOP in the medal's table by number of medals in relation to its population.

Compare the sheer, continental size of China and US and then consider the Britsh Isles. We have always punched above our weight but to be third is absolutely extrordinary. UK is the sixth richest nation but US and China are both considerably more wealthy and more populous than the UK.


Investment makes a big difference though. Canada invested heavily in the lead up to Vancouver and managed to move from 4th in the standings to the most gold medals ever won in a single Winter games.

There are other advantages too, like cultural factors that influence participation in sports (which determines the talent pool more than absolute population does). Canada's success in hockey is obviously a result of the fact that most Canadian boys will play hockey during their childhood. There is also the access to infrastructure, like the established college athletics circuit in the US, and the ability to train in world class facilities.

[Babyguile]

Last night I caught up on some of the fencing finals on the BBC website, partly becasue I just love the commentators accent, and he was very knowledgeable and went to some lengths (and he would have needed to) to explain the lightning-quick game of fencing.

I remember wanting to do it as a child but there were no clubs near me so I let that idea fizzle out over the years. I like my badminton though so I don't feel so lazy watching these athletes on television on an evening.

Does any body fence/follow fencing? From what I gathered, the rules sound interesting.

[OrphanPip]

Last night I caught up on some of the fencing finals on the BBC website, partly becasue I just love the commentators accent, and he was very knowledgeable and went to some lengths (and he would have needed to) to explain the lightning-quick game of fencing.

I remember wanting to do it as a child but there were no clubs near me so I let that idea fizzle out over the years. I like my badminton though so I don't feel so lazy watching these athletes on television on an evening.

Does any body fence/follow fencing? From what I gathered, the rules sound interesting.

I used to know someone who came very close to getting on the S.A. national fencing team.

On another note, I played badminton in college but our team was awful.

[kiki1982]

Go Team Sheffield! Well done and a top day for the British competitors.

Just a side note, is anyone else slightly irritated by the phrase Team GB? I prefer simply Great Britain. I don't remember it used before at previous Olympics, though I don't watch it religiously so I might be wrong. I have been enjoying what I have managed to catch of this one though.

I have been away for the week on the East coast and found it amusing to hear the presenters on local TV stations supporting athletes from 'Team East.' This was especially funny one day when nobody from 'Team East' did anything, but there was one Lithuanian athlete (or someone like that) who went to a posh school in Norwich who they were congratulating. They interviewed the matron-like head of the school about how proud they was of him/her and everything. I found this really strange but this is what you get from local TV newscasts.

Anyway, I've managed to catch some of the gold medal wins and was especially glad to see Wiggins finally get the glory he deserves.

:lol: I am sure the head was very proud.

Have you grown any honorary sideburns yet? The morning after Wiggins's win, Steve Redgrave came on the screen commenting on the rowing with sideburns stuck on.

That phrase Team GB was already there in Beijing, actually. That one was the first I really watched, because at that time, we were in Germany without broadband internet in a small village and there was nothing but TV. I rather liked it. I recall Team GB being talked about all the time.


Wow, it's still amazing, just to stick with anything at a world class level, for so long.

Japan has a guy who competed 48 years ago (at the 1964 Tokyo games)! He missed a BUNCH since then, though, I guess... I can't tell (from Wikipedia) if 2012 is his third Olympics or what... Still.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17284931

71 years old. He says he's getting old and isn't as strong as he used to be--but his horse understands, and helps him...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--japanese-equestrian-defies-father-time-as-oldest-competitor-at-london-olympics.html

That is rather impressive, although indeed, the horse won't be the same age, not even in horse years. ;)

He wouldn't be the oldest winner ever, though. The oldest 'athlete' ever to win a gold medal was in 1948, a 75-year old Briton for etching. In case you are wondering what that is, it is indeed the art of engraving which was also a Olympic feature, like poetry.


There is a new measure of success in these Olympics which the newspaper and BBC coverage explained proudly to its viewers/readers: Great Britain is TOP in the medal's table by number of medals in relation to its population. So lots of medals for a small population is better than lots of medals for a large population.

The commentators to the women's marathon were just explaining that since the demise of Sydney (?), Great Britain decided that it was time to really support athletes and work in a targetted way to get medals. So they try to do this by sending athletes to schools to try and inspire kids to do sports, but also by going around schools and clubs to try and spot people and then take them in and support them so they can do their sport without worrying about injuries etc.

Believe it or not, the National Lottery is the big funder in this, not merely te government.

So in doing it this way, they sometimes get it wrong (the disaster with Cavendish in the road race, stupid idea), but overall, it probably produces better overall results than if you just fund independent athletes.
In terms of their way smaller demographic size than either the USA or China, I think they do remarkably well


We had a rower get a silver in her 6th Olympic appearance a few days ago too, although she now competes as coxwain (she calls the strokes and sets pace) for the 8 woman boat.

...


There are other advantages too, like cultural factors that influence participation in sports (which determines the talent pool more than absolute population does). Canada's success in hockey is obviously a result of the fact that most Canadian boys will play hockey during their childhood. There is also the access to infrastructure, like the established college athletics circuit in the US, and the ability to train in world class facilities.

Yes, that obviously influences what sports people are interested in in the first place, but less known sports can get boosted if they are offered. Cycling in Britain was pretty much a minority sport (or so I've heard), but they tried to boost it and now they've not only got Cavendish and Wiggins, but a whole lot more.


It's a shame the women's 100m final seemed like an afterthought (at least on British television) because of the sucess of Brits on the same night. It's usually a highlight of the games along with the men's equivalent. It's a sight to see: these powerful, determined athletes pounding down the track.

That's what my hubby was saying. t seemed so on TV, indeed. Maybe that was only on TV though, because the commentators kept going on about it. Altough British longjumper Tomlinson (?) had to wait for his jump as Ennis and her colleagues went round the track bowing to the crowds. Pretty lovely sight, but the longjumper wasn't impressed with that. I am sure though, that the people sat in the vicinity of the women's 100m were interested in who was going to win. Although, there being no Briton in it, was maybe a factor...

I was joking yesterday that maybe the British government should buy up tickets for the next Olympics and then hand them out randomly. If GB always do so well with a contingent of supporters, it's worth investing in it as part of Team GB. :lol:

[kiki1982]

Does any body fence/follow fencing? From what I gathered, the rules sound interesting.

I don't do any fencing, but as a kind of living history fan, I think the rules are that you touch your oponent in certain places and get points, the points depending on the spot where you touch.
I am not sure, but I could imagine that the number of points you score depends on the difficulty of reaching the spot (the head?) and the severity of an injury (one on the head or chest/heart region being more sebvere than one on the leg or arm). In former days, fencing was done without protection if it was serious. Believe me the point of such an épée is very sharp indeed (you could easily poke someone's eye out without even really using any force), but now they've got protective covers on them.
Poking in the face is not allowed I don't think.

Have a look on the wikipedia entry?

[OrphanPip]

In terms of the men's 8, I found it funny to see the 8 men on the podium with the ninth dwarf at the back. Obviously, you don't want to get too much useless weight in your boat :lol:.


Ha, yes in those little athlete bio things they use to fill up TV time they had a few minutes dedicated to the coxwain, who had leukemia as a child which stunted his growth.

[kiki1982]

Ha, yes in those little athlete bio things they use to fill up TV time they had a few minutes dedicated to the coxwain, who had leukemia as a child which stunted his growth.

And I did not see that one... Feel really stupid now too. I'll edit that post of mine then, as I didn't want to laugh at that.
On a side note, there was a cyclist as well who had recently had chemo. Good on her.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Gold for Andy Murray!!

[kiki1982]

And Ben Ainslie!

As that was pretty appropriate, they also played Rule Brittania at Weymouth once he had gold. P*ss everyone right off! :D

Andy Murray is nw going to try and win the mixed doubles as well with is partner.

[Emil Miller]

Andy Murray is nw going to try and win the mixed doubles as well with is partner.

It's a pity he couldn't have beaten Federer at Wimbledon but maybe next time around. Anyway, I'm getting pretty bored with the running, jumping and standing still show and that's just from this thread. There has to be something more interesting going on somewhere.

[stlukesguild]

Investment makes a big difference though. Canada invested heavily in the lead up to Vancouver and managed to move from 4th in the standings to the most gold medals ever won in a single Winter games.

There are other advantages too, like cultural factors that influence participation in sports (which determines the talent pool more than absolute population does). Canada's success in hockey is obviously a result of the fact that most Canadian boys will play hockey during their childhood. There is also the access to infrastructure, like the established college athletics circuit in the US, and the ability to train in world class facilities.

Exactly. And I have absolutely know idea why anyone would assume that the physical scale of a nation has the least thing whatsoever to do with their success at the Olympics... or anything else. Canada and Australia are both far larger than the UK and yet far smaller in terms of population.

And yes... cultural advantages. The Canadians, Russians, Norwegians, Swiss have certain advantages when it comes to Winter sports that are not common in other countries. As Pip suggests, boys in Canada grow up playing Hockey from childhood on, where Americans grow up playing (American) football, basketball, and baseball. I doubt that many Brazilians, regardless of the size of their nation or populace, grow up playing Hockey or Skiing.

Another element that has yet to be mentioned is that of the home field advantage. The BBC commentators mentioned early on that the home field advantage has resulted in an average of 25% more medals. This certainly makes sense. We see this even in sports on a national level... with teams having a far greater win/loss average when playing at home.

The commentators to the women's marathon were just explaining that since the demise of Sydney (?), Great Britain decided that it was time to really support athletes and work in a targetted way to get medals. So they try to do this by sending athletes to schools to try and inspire kids to do sports, but also by going around schools and clubs to try and spot people and then take them in and support them so they can do their sport without worrying about injuries etc.

Believe it or not, the National Lottery is the big funder in this, not merely te government.

So in doing it this way, they sometimes get it wrong (the disaster with Cavendish in the road race, stupid idea), but overall, it probably produces better overall results than if you just fund independent athletes.
In terms of their way smaller demographic size than either the USA or China, I think they do remarkably well.

The British are indeed doing remarkably well... but before you overestimate the advantage that the US has in fielding Olympic athletes you might consider this fact:

The United States Olympic Committee (USOC) is a non-profit organization that serves as the National Olympic Committee. The Committee is chartered under Title 36 of the United States Code. Despite this federal mandate, it receives no financial assistance from the U.S. government. As a non-profit organization, the USOC is wholly dependent on private contributions and corporate sponsorship.

It seems that Olympic athletes in the US succeed much like American artists, writers, musicians, etc... in spite of a virtual dearth of government support for their efforts.

How does this compare to the government support available in China, Russia, and many other nations?

I was joking yesterday that maybe the British government should buy up tickets for the next Olympics and then hand them out randomly. If GB always do so well with a contingent of supporters, it's worth investing in it as part of Team GB.

Of course Brazil may just make it as near impossible for the British to purchase tickets, as the Brits have made it for Americans, Canadians, Australians, Japanese, Chinese, Brazilians... and pretty much anyone living outside of the EU:

http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/Americans-finding-it-difficult-to-get-Olympic-tickets-at-London-2012

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

There is a new measure of success in these Olympics which the newspaper and BBC coverage explained proudly to its viewers/readers: Great Britain is TOP in the medal's table by number of medals in relation to its population. So lots of medals for a small population is better than lots of medals for a large population.

Compare the sheer, continental size of China and US and then consider the Britsh Isles. We have always punched above our weight but to be third is absolutely extrordinary. UK is the sixth richest nation but US and China are both considerably more wealthy and more populous than the UK.

.
Hmmm, I've never thought about it like that before. I like this way of thinking, because China has a population more than 3x the size of the USA's, so that makes our beating them (61 medals to their 57, and 30 golds to their 27, and this will only increase with more track and field) even more impressive!

USA, USA, USA!!!!! :patriot:

[prendrelemick]

Hussain Bolt!!!!

Don't you just love the Machismo strutting of those sprinters, they think they are the Alpha Males of track and field - before the race that is.

[prendrelemick]

Investment makes a big difference though. Canada invested heavily in the lead up to Vancouver and managed to move from 4th in the standings to the most gold medals ever won in a single Winter games.

There are other advantages too, like cultural factors that influence participation in sports (which determines the talent pool more than absolute population does). Canada's success in hockey is obviously a result of the fact that most Canadian boys will play hockey during their childhood. There is also the access to infrastructure, like the established college athletics circuit in the US, and the ability to train in world class facilities.

Exactly. And I have absolutely know idea why anyone would assume that the physical scale of a nation has the least thing whatsoever to do with their success at the Olympics... or anything else. Canada and Australia are both far larger than the UK and yet far smaller in terms of population.

And yes... cultural advantages. The Canadians, Russians, Norwegians, Swiss have certain advantages when it comes to Winter sports that are not common in other countries. As Pip suggests, boys in Canada grow up playing Hockey from childhood on, where Americans grow up playing (American) football, basketball, and baseball. I doubt that many Brazilians, regardless of the size of their nation or populace, grow up playing Hockey or Skiing.

Another element that has yet to be mentioned is that of the home field advantage. The BBC commentators mentioned early on that the home field advantage has resulted in an average of 25% more medals. This certainly makes sense. We see this even in sports on a national level... with teams having a far greater win/loss average when playing at home.

The commentators to the women's marathon were just explaining that since the demise of Sydney (?), Great Britain decided that it was time to really support athletes and work in a targetted way to get medals. So they try to do this by sending athletes to schools to try and inspire kids to do sports, but also by going around schools and clubs to try and spot people and then take them in and support them so they can do their sport without worrying about injuries etc.

Believe it or not, the National Lottery is the big funder in this, not merely te government.

So in doing it this way, they sometimes get it wrong (the disaster with Cavendish in the road race, stupid idea), but overall, it probably produces better overall results than if you just fund independent athletes.
In terms of their way smaller demographic size than either the USA or China, I think they do remarkably well.

The British are indeed doing remarkably well... but before you overestimate the advantage that the US has in fielding Olympic athletes you might consider this fact:

The United States Olympic Committee (USOC) is a non-profit organization that serves as the National Olympic Committee. The Committee is chartered under Title 36 of the United States Code. Despite this federal mandate, it receives no financial assistance from the U.S. government. As a non-profit organization, the USOC is wholly dependent on private contributions and corporate sponsorship.

It seems that Olympic athletes in the US succeed much like American artists, writers, musicians, etc... in spite of a virtual dearth of government support for their efforts.

How does this compare to the government support available in China, Russia, and many other nations?

I was joking yesterday that maybe the British government should buy up tickets for the next Olympics and then hand them out randomly. If GB always do so well with a contingent of supporters, it's worth investing in it as part of Team GB.

Of course Brazil may just make it as near impossible for the British to purchase tickets, as the Brits have made it for Americans, Canadians, Australians, Japanese, Chinese, Brazilians... and pretty much anyone living outside of the EU:

http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/Americans-finding-it-difficult-to-get-Olympic-tickets-at-London-2012


There is a massive shortage of tickets for all events apart from the big stadium sports. They were allocated to us Brits through a ballot process. Many were disappointed.

Whatever you think of ticket touts, they are efficient distribution agents, there would've been fewer empty seats at the start of the games if they hadn't been clamped down on so hard.

The USA has the College sports circuit with its scholarships, a setup that is probably unrivaled anywhere when it comes to bringing on young athletes, and to their credit, train and develop athletes from all over the world.

[kiki1982]

Of course Brazil may just make it as near impossible for the British to purchase tickets, as the Brits have made it for Americans, Canadians, Australians, Japanese, Chinese, Brazilians... and pretty much anyone living outside of the EU:

http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/Americans-finding-it-difficult-to-get-Olympic-tickets-at-London-2012

I was just told by my hubby, who is a long-standing fan of the Olympics, that it is convention that people living on the continent the Olympics take place in get the most tickets allocated and only then come the rest. So, in 2016, people from South-America will be vastly over-represented (or ideally anyay).

So not a London conspiracy then.

[kiki1982]

Belgium just won a Bronze in the women's sailing. Then the BBC journalist went for a reaction and one guy just swore 3 times the f-word on live TV :eek:, the other guy shouted his head off and said nothing but 'She's the best.' Trust the Flemish not to make a fool of themselves ever...

[JuniperWoolf]

We had a rower get a silver in her 6th Olympic appearance a few days ago too, although she now competes as coxwain (she calls the strokes and sets pace) for the 8 woman boat.

Haha, aww. We suck at summer. Two more years, my Canadian brethren: Winter is Coming.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yorkshire is currently is currently sitting in eighth in the medal table, according to the local news twerps, brilliant.

Team Yorkshire! Team Yorkshire! :patriot:

[OrphanPip]

Haha, aww. We suck at summer. Two more years, my Canadian brethren: Winter is Coming.

Our women's soccer team is up against the US in the semi-finals today. It will be a tough match (seeing how the US are ranked 1st in the world, and the Canadian team came into the tournament ranked 7th) but they've already pulled off one major upset knocking GB out in the quarter finals.

[Sancho]

Should be a grand, North American match-up.

Mick, I’m starting to think you’ve got an ulterior motive for watching the games. And that’s coming from a man who likes to wear a trench coat to women’s field hockey games.

[Sancho]

Whoops, posted that on the wrong thread. Prendrelemick was drooling over the Dutch Field Hockey team over on the Bloke's Thread.

[Paulclem]

Whoops, posted that on the wrong thread. Prendrelemick was drooling over the Dutch Field Hockey team over on the Bloke's Thread.

Good job you hadn't slipped into the gender roles thread. Lynchin's

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Good job you hadn't slipped into the gender roles thread. Lynchin's

Someone needs to get in there and cut the rope I'm being hung from.

[Paulclem]

Someone needs to get in there and cut the rope I'm being hung from.

Just been in there. We're not worthy. (I'm bowing as I write this).

[stlukesguild]

The USA has the College sports circuit with its scholarships, a setup that is probably unrivaled anywhere when it comes to bringing on young athletes, and to their credit, train and develop athletes from all over the world.

That's true... of the major sports that garner television air-time: basketball, football... to a lesser degree baseball, but it is not exactly true that skiers, marathon runners, fencers, etc... are awarded full scholarships. Then you need to consider that even then, this says nothing about developing these young athletes prior to college. A great many parents of ice-skaters, swimmers, etc... scrimp and scrounge and even put up the house as collateral to pay for classes and trainers and coaches.

[prendrelemick]

Should be a grand, North American match-up.

Mick, I’m starting to think you’ve got an ulterior motive for watching the games. And that’s coming from a man who likes to wear a trench coat to women’s field hockey games.



A man of my experience and venerableness (an old git) can appreciate beauty in a non pervy way.



By the way, the Canadians were robbed in the Women's Football.

[Sancho]

A man of my experience and venerableness (an old git) can appreciate beauty in a non pervy way.



By the way, the Canadians were robbed in the Women's Football.

You're a good man, Mick. El Sancho, on the other hand, is going to hang on to his pervyness for a few more years.

'fraid I missed soccer/football match, what happened?

[prendrelemick]

The USA were given a very dodgy penalty.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yeah, we definitely got help there.

[bIGwIRE]

Yeah, we definitely got help there.

:iagree:....

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to the Japan/Us rematch. That's Japan vs. The United States, Mr Connery.

[Sancho]

The USA were given a very dodgy penalty.

That's a shame. I hate to see it go like that.

It stinks for the losing team and it stinks for the victors as well. Nobody wants to win a match that way.

All national pride aside, I generally pull for the underdog, or the team that shows exemplary chutzpah. I've never thought having the stars of the NBA in the Olympics was a good idea.

Also, Mick, I've got to comment on your use of that most irregular of verbs in the English language, 'to be'. You must be a State's-Rights man. People used to say, "These United States," a lot, but now most folks say, "The United States." It's a matter of philosophy and constitutional interpretation.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

You wanna see some dodgy calls, watch the boxing. It's truly amazing.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yorkshire have moved up to sixth in the league table...

Edit: Also I am also annoyed to hear that the regulating body in cycling have banned more than one person per nation in certain cycling events. This has been done to stop Team GB, running away with the medals, even though they have still done so, it's crazy. Imagine if this was carried over in other events, say only one Jamaican in the 100m or only one from USA in the swimming, ridiculous. They just can't stomach British dominance in cycling.

Edit 2: The French have even complained about the wheels the British team are using. Of course the irony is that they are manufactured in France, ha, ha...

[Paulclem]

Yorkshire have moved up to sixth in the league table...

Edit: Also I am also annoyed to hear that the regulating body in cycling have banned more than one person per nation in certain cycling events. This has been done to stop Team GB, running away with the medals, even though they have still done so, it's crazy. Imagine if this was carried over in other events, say only one Jamaican in the 100m or only one from USA in the swimming, ridiculous. They just can't stomach British dominance in cycling.

Edit 2: The French have even complained about the wheels the British team are using. Of course the irony is that they are manufactured in France, ha, ha...

It was apparently David Brilsford's fault as he told a French publication that we were using "special round wheels".

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/cycling/two-wheels-good--and-heres-why-8015841.html

[stlukesguild]

It was apparently David Brilsford's fault as he told a French publication that we were using "special round wheels".

So it's not just Americans that fail to grasp irony?:shocked:

[JBI]

In China they only seem to show events that the Chinese get Gold in, or matches where China wins. So terribly boring to watch this stuff here, knowing the outcome before hand. And virtually none of the good team sports.

[prendrelemick]

Also, Mick, I've got to comment on your use of that most irregular of verbs in the English language, 'to be'. You must be a State's-Rights man. People used to say, "These United States," a lot, but now most folks say, "The United States." It's a matter of philosophy and constitutional interpretation.

I is corrected.



Of all the Olympic sports, Dressage must be the most boring to watch. I mean I know it's a marvellous test and takes years of dedication, but as it's only a refined circus horse act they should put more tricks in. For instance, they could jump through firey hoops, or the judge could ask the horse questions, like "how old are you?" and the horse has to tap out the correct answer with it's hoof. Or the rider should dress in leotard and feathers and perform handstands and other acrobatic tricks on its back as they go through their paces. Or they could jump on and off at a gallop with a cry of "Hey-ooplah." I'd watch it then.



Meanwhile half the Cameroon team have absconded. They gone to ground in London where they will be able to go unnoticed among the local population.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/prendrelemick/s-CAMEROON-2012-LONDON-OLYMPICS-TEAM_large.jpg

[Emil Miller]

It was apparently David Brilsford's fault as he told a French publication that we were using "special round wheels".



Now if they did the racing using square wheels even I would watch it.

[prendrelemick]

Wow those BMX ladies! Did the commentator just say someone had to retire with a lacerated liver!!!??


That's a dangerous sport.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

There's BMX in the Olympics this time? Does BMX mean the same to me as it means to you, I.e., bicycle tricks and what not?