Drugs

[Scheherazade]

Please take the poll to indicate the kind of drugs you used in the past or are still using.

The poll is confidential so no one will see how you voted. If you would like to share the details of your attitude or usage, please do so in the thread.

Please keep in mind that this is a very sensitivie issue for most.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Isn't this supposed to be an all-ages forum? Doesn't encouraging discussion on illegal drugs kind of conflict with that?

[Scheherazade]

Isn't this supposed to be an all-ages forum?Yep.
Doesn't encouraging discussion on illegal drugs kind of conflict with that?Nope.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Nope.

:lol: Whatever you say. I'm sure no school will have a problem if they see a student on a forum discussing how people get high. No, that's not innapropriate for kids at all.

[Scheherazade]

Whatever you say.Thank you.

I knew you would see the light one day.


Someone messed up the poll either knowingly or by mistake.

At the moment, 6 people voted and 2 ticked "none of the above". However, we have 5 votes for alcohol.

:sosp:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Thank you.

I knew you would see the light one day.

Well, I am a slow learner.

[JuniperWoolf]

Bit surprised that three litnetters have tried speed, you book folk are hardcore.

[Revolte]

I thought about mushrooms before. I see things from wine, last thing I need is whatever craziness I would throw out and won't go away with a shake of a head.

Pot is a minor hallucinogen though.

[Dark Star]

Bit surprised that three litnetters have tried speed, you book folk are hardcore.

I considered checking that box because I've been on ADD medications on and off throughout my life, but decided against it because I never played with the dosage.


Thread duty:

I selected alcohol, tobacco, and opiates. I used to smoke cigars and pipe tobacco (for about a year) until I developed a tobacco allergy. I didn't miss the cigars too much, but collecting various pipes and the various tobaccos with different flavors was something I missed.

I drank for about a year and a half; for the most part I had only a minor interest in liquor (about a bottle a month, maybe got drunk twice at the most in a given month) in terms of hard drinking, though I did have fun exploring medium to high grade gin, vodka, and whiskey (irish and rye - bourbon never appealed to me). Unfortunately as a combination of untreated PTSD, treated but poorly managed depression and anxiety, and living in a city with a ****ty social situation that seriously exacerbated these problems (four years single, friendless, and jobless, something had to give!) I took to drinking pretty hard. Started going through 2-3 bottles of liquor a week just to keep my misery at bay. I was in frequent talks with a counselor and psychiatrist at the university at this time who monitored me for signs of (physiological) alcoholism and was quite ready to cut back on the alcohol if I was given some medications that worked to ease the crippling anxiety and depression. Unfortunately, I switched from high grade liquor to rot-gut whiskey due to my self-destructive bent and the alcohol started tearing up my stomach before we found a combination that worked. :frown5: I tried switching to (good) beer for a couple of months since it wasn't as hard on my stomach and had some fun exploring ale, but I cut back heavily and then eventually threw in the towel since my stomach was getting worse and my psychological problems were a tad better since I wasn't forcing myself to be around people any more. (Being alone in a crowd on a daily basis very seriously exacerbated both the anxiety and the depression.) I regret switching to rot-gut since I'd like to get drunk once in a while and enjoy high-grade booze again, but I can't say I regret anything else about the experience; I'm firmly convinced that the alcohol was the deciding factor in my not ending up a suicide or in an insane asylum.

As for opiates: Not much to tell. I had a hydrocodone prescription lying around (it didn't work as a painkiller so I gave up on it) and found myself in a bad bout of depression due to some news I received from someone I cared for. I took a few more than the required dosage to see if it would drown my blues and I found the result rather boring. It made me admirably fuzzy-headed, but did not have a euphoric effect like alcohol. The idea of risking an addiction to something that didn't even have a positive effect on me psychologically seemed downright ridiculous so I never played with it again.

On that note, I do think that anyone who is going to play with prescription opiates needs to know that the active ingredient in Tylenol is included in hydrocodone and other opiates to discourage abuse of the substances. (The US government requires it, at least, and I know that several other governments do. Check the laws in your country.) To be very clear: If you ingest over X amount of Tylenol a day you're looking at liver damage or liver failure. Ironically, that's more likely to kill you than an overdose on the opiate part of the pill. If one is insistent upon playing with opiates there are ways to get around this, but I'm not going to hand out the answer to that. Use Google if you must know.

One last story: I tripped on Benadryll once by accident when I had to take a large dosage due to having a severe allergic reaction to food.:yikes: I do NOT recommend it. You won't see anything like a psychedelic experience in a movie, what you will see (and it may be scary) will seem very, very real.

[Lokasenna]

Two of the finest things in life are good whisky and good cigars... beyond those two categories, I've touched nothing on the list above.

[tonywalt]

Funny enough, people are polling without commenting much-I thought that might happen.

[Revolte]

Funny enough, people are polling without commenting much-I thought that might happen.

The war on drugs might have something to do with that. Making it almost an shameful act. Or they could have had bad experiences with the drugs or drug addiction and aren't willing to risk a trigger.

I still have little flashbacks to pill abuse when I think about it. I used to take anything I could get my hands on, it wasn't hard to do either. I had a friend who sold stuff like oxy on the side, but didn't use himself, so I'd take whatever he had left over. Made highschool a bit less dreary. Though I didn't really have any negative experiences up until I got addicted to both pills and alcohol and had to quit both cold turkey.

[JuniperWoolf]

One last story: I tripped on Benadryll once by accident when I had to take a large dosage due to having a severe allergic reaction to food.:yikes: I do NOT recommend it. You won't see anything like a psychedelic experience in a movie, what you will see (and it may be scary) will seem very, very real.

Once I had a bad fever and thought I saw very realistic cockroaches crawling on the refrigerator. My area doesn't even have cockroaches, we're at too high an elevation. I called my dad and he found me passed out in the kitchen. :sick:

That was my only hallucination.

[Dark Star]

Once I had a bad fever and thought I saw very realistic cockroaches crawling on the refrigerator. My area doesn't even have cockroaches, we're at too high an elevation. I called my dad and he found me passed out in the kitchen. :sick:

That was my only hallucination.

The Benadryll was my only hallucination and it was pretty nasty. No psychedelic colors or anything, just spiders. Poisonous spiders. Which were contained within circular cages they could use to roll up stairs.:sosp: I passed out and woke up the next morning with no idea what 'happened' until I saw a large hardcover book near the edge of my room and remembered waiting there to smash them when they made their way underneath the door.

[Alexander III]

I have tried everything except prescription sedatives - also I think my generation shall be the one which shall decriminalize/legalize marijuana by the end of our lifetime, as virtually everyone of my age I know has tried it and has realized the huge hypocrisy behind the logic of keeping it criminalized.

I regret nothing, and I would advice anyone to try everything on that list except heroine, amphetamines, and stuff like crack and meth.

It seems to me that the development of drug culture is a very natural and logical response to a society which has been rapidly growing more sterile and artificial every generation. I am not saying that that is necessarily a bad thing , as with it the life of the average man has been made infinitely more comfortable and prolonged, but it is only natural that a large segment of society see's greater virtue in the life of the wild animal which faces all the privations of a brutal life, as opposed to the domesticated one in the zoo which enjoys plenty of food and sanitation and an abundance of comfort.

[Calidore]

I'm pretty much anti-drug by nature, since from what I've seen, even people who truly do use them occasionally and responsibly will sooner or later show that they're not as otherwise normal, and not as free of the negative effects, as they claim.

In the other thread, I mentioned a scary incident on a movie night with a friend and a few of his friends, one of whom had taken (most likely) LSD. As Dark Star said about that Benadryl trip, it was nothing like you see in the movies. I think I've only ever told this story once in the thirty years since it happened, and this being the drug thread, what the heck.

As a young kid I had a friend I'll call Jeff, who lived just down the street. We lost touch for a bit, then reconnected in our mid-teens when we went to the same high school. We had lots of good times then--endless days of video gaming on his Intellivision and Atari 400 computer (which, I don't care what all the Commodore fanboys said, beat the pants off the 64 and Vic-20 as a gaming system), going to movies, and running around the neighborhood doing irresponsible teenage boy mischief.

The one downside Jeff had, as far as I was concerned, was that he was a pot and LSD user. He didn't show any ill effects--he had friends, got decent grades (better than mine, frankly), etc., but I had always been taught that Drugs Are Bad, and that was it. Jeff always wanted me to try them out myself, but I wasn't interested. This was mostly due to 1) not being completely comfortable around him when he was high (pot), due to his personality not being quite him anymore; and 2) outright fear (LSD), despite his assurances that it was fine and awesome and everything. I actually came closest to trying LSD just out of curiosity, but never did.

Which brings us to That Night. This was one summer evening when we were seventeen or eighteen, which would be 1983 or 1984. Jeff and I went with three of his other friends to the now-long-gone Varsity Theatre in Evanston to see a double bill of A Clockwork Orange and Mad Max. I had already seen Clockwork Orange on video at Jeff's house--it was one of his all-time favorite movies--and had no interest in seeing it again, but I'd heard a lot about Mad Max and was really looking forward to that. So Clockwork Orange came and went (with me not liking it any better the second time), and Mad Max came on. As anyone who has seen it knows, it opens with an amazing high-energy chase, and after that I was completely stoked for the rest of the film. That was about the point where Jeff, who had gotten up from his seat a bit earlier, came up behind me and said, "We have to go. Now." I'm thinking, "What?! This is great!", but I got up to follow him to the lobby. There I saw one of the guys we came with standing in the middle of the floor, silently shadowboxing nothing, with a ring of observers around him that he couldn't see.

I wish I had the skills to communicate how unreal this was. This is a guy I was probably conversing normally with not long ago, who had essentially become imprisoned in his mind. He wasn't physically impaired in the least, but his perception of the outside world was minimal and obviously heavily compromised, and he was completely unable to communicate or be communicated with.

So his friends guided him out of the theater (I was keeping away from him as best I could), at which point he ran out into the street and a short distance away, went down into a football stance facing us, and charged--all still in complete silence, which just added to the unreality for me. We got out of the way, and he turned around, crouched, and charged again. This went on for a little while. Luckily for him, this was well after ten at night, and Evanston is a suburb that closes early, so even downtown the street was completely deserted.

Finally he seemed to peel a couple of layers of mental blankets away, to where he stopped resisting his friends' attempts to calm him down and get him into the car. He even managed to grunt once in response to something. He was still gone, though; while driving home, he kept opening the door and trying to step out of the car--at 40 mph. Driver slams on brakes, friend by him pulls him back in, repeat several times.

I was the first one dropped off, so I don't know anything that happened after that, and I never saw any of them again. I asked Jeff the next day what the guy had seen, but Jeff said something to the effect that it would be bad manners to ask something like that. I believe that was also the end of Jeff trying to convince me that I should try drugs myself.

A few years later, two things happened involving Jeff that further cemented my growing skepticism about whether people really can be drug users but otherwise perfectly normal. I don't remember now the order in which they happened, but one was his mother coming to my house asking if I'd seen or heard from Jeff, as he'd run away. The other was when we were in our early twenties, and Jeff called me from a hospital psych ward asking if I'd come and visit him (which I did). That was the last time I saw or heard from him for about twenty years.

Then just a few years ago he called out of the blue, having gotten my phone number off the internet. He said he was living with his mother in California and going to college there. We couldn't talk long, because he said he was about to go to church, but I was really happy to hear that he was okay. But between him and numerous other observations of people I've known and seen, my opinion's pretty firm that regardless of what people tell themselves and others, and try to show others, in the long term drugs only damage you.

[The Kid]

I voted None of the Above on this one. This is largely as a result of circumstance.

There has been drug bustings in just about every school I've attended so far. It seems like these are happening just around the corner from me, all peripheral in my life, but never to me or anyone I am close to. I probably would say no if someone offered me drugs, but somehow it just hasn't happened. I still don't understand how drugs could get my neighbors in the house to our left, and then the kid in the house on our right, but just totally skip over me.

I oppose most drugs in principle though. This is not really because of the drugs themselves, but because of the people who sell them. Many drugs are trafficked through my ancestral homeland of Mexico, and then arrive in the United States and places like my home state California. If there was no demand for cocaine here in the United States then I wouldn't have to worry about stories of innocent people getting murdered in the streets and being decapitated by Los Zetas while my great-uncle (a Mexican law enforcement officer) gets to roll around in cash and live in a huge mansion in Mexico City getting fat off of other people's addictions. No police officer could afford the luxurious lifestyle that b*****d enjoys, I think we can all guess who his real masters are?

I don't oppose drugs, but I oppose things that make people murderous for money. Especially when it affects my own flesh and blood, like that pathetic- excuse-for-a-police-officer-of-an-uncle.

[Paulclem]

Interesting story Calidore. All too often the bad effects aren't seen by the users and they encourage others to try stuff without really knowing what effect it could have. It might affect only a very few, but the threat of permanent mental illness is not something anyone can predict - certanly not the user mates.

Hi Kid - you make a great point which I realised only recently. A lot of the drug discussion centres around good and bad usage and the effects upon users, but with imported stuff like cocaine etc, as you point out, it plays merry hell with the societies it affects and keeps the majority of people in poverty whilst they are subject to violence and intimidation from organised crime.

With all the debate about rights, classifications, effects, laws etc - this is one aspect that is neglected. I don't know how the drugs trade affects places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, though you can bet that the short term economic boost is not worth the trouble the whole trade brings. In South American countries it is even worse as you pointed out. It's doubtful that any consideration whatsoever would be given to this issue by users out for a good time.

[miyako73]

Never never try meth. It feels good alright, but in a week or two, you will be bending over just to have a hit.

[paradoxical]

All of the above for me, but I didn't see that option until it was too late, so I just checked off the drugs that I have done individually.

I was wondering if anyone else is struggling with active addiction? I'm currently dealing with addiction to prescription sedatives and about to face a really bad withdrawal. This is the third time I've gone through withdrawal from the same drug and you would think I would learn my lesson. I'm also addicted to alcohol and marijuana, and in the past, I have gone through bad withdrawals from opiates.

I know that marijuana isn't a harmful drug, but I find it extremely difficult to go more then 24 hours without it. I like to get stoned as soon as I wake up, and then I get high again several times throughout the day. In the past, I managed to kick my addiction to alcohol and other drugs by only using marijuana but recently I have started drinking again. I'm not using opiates, but found a doctor who would give me sedatives and have been addicted for several months (again).

I'm so tired of the detox, and I've tried rehab, AA, NA, etc. None of it really works. I want to get high and that's what drives me. I'm also really ashamed of myself because many people only experiment with drugs but do not get addicted. I've been an addict for a long time. It's the only way I know to cope with life.

Just wondering if anyone else can relate? I've really been struggling the past few days. It's why I haven't been been posting here or writing anything. The pain is overwhelming. I've tried pretty much all drugs, but it's always pot and pills and alcohol that take me down. I'm not currently addicted to hard drugs, although I have done hard drugs in the past.

[smerdyakov]

I'm so tired of the detox, and I've tried rehab, AA, NA, etc. None of it really works. I want to get high and that's what drives me. I'm also really ashamed of myself because many people only experiment with drugs but do not get addicted. I've been an addict for a long time. It's the only way I know to cope with life.

Just wondering if anyone else can relate? I've really been struggling the past few days. It's why I haven't been been posting here or writing anything. The pain is overwhelming. I've tried pretty much all drugs, but it's always pot and pills and alcohol that take me down. I'm not currently addicted to hard drugs, although I have done hard drugs in the past.

You shouldn't be ashamed of yourself - lots of people are addicted to drink/drugs (in alot of cases socially acceptable drugs) and don't have the courage or honesty to admit they are addicted. You have the sense and bravery to admit as much, and on a public forum too, so big kudos for that!
It sounds like you would benefit from CBT (have you tried this?) to break your habits/way of behaving You have tried rehab/AA/NA etc and it hasn't worked. It probably hasn't worked because you are not tackling the driving force behind this type of behaviour. Ask yoruself: what do I want to do? what do I want to achieve in the next two years? That's what u need to look at mate. Stay off the hard benzos, ie Valium etc, as they are highly addictive and you will become dependent on them after a short time. Ask your doctor to put u on some anti anxiety/low anti depressants such as Lexapro for a few months in conjunction with therapy. Take up exercise/sport - this is very important. Jog everyday if u can - this produces natural serotonin and will make you feel better regardless. Develop other interests. It's not that hard. Just remember, you ultimately have the control here and not the drugs/driink. So, life won't be as exciting without drink or drugs, but you will be happier long term and more stable in every sense. God bless.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Drugs are bad, 'mkay. (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VCDnR6Px-co)

[JuniperWoolf]

I don't have an addictive personality, but I was physically addicted to Gravol when I was eleven. I took them for car rides since we live two hours away from where we go grocery shopping so I'd have to take them at least once/week for carsickness. I was too young for anyone to have even explained drug addiction or withdrawal to me, and I liked how they felt and the dreams they induced so I started swiping them from the medicine cabinet (and when my mom ran out, I swiped them from my friend's medicine cabinet). By the time my mom cottoned on almost a month had passed of me taking two-three/day and I was only about 85 lbs. Imagine an eleven year old with a Dimenhydrinate dependance. :sick: I was twitchy, sweaty, anxious, and didn't sleep for a week. And I REALLY wanted Gravol.

To date:
-I tried to be a smoker when I was sixteen because smoking looks cool but they taste horrible, smell horrible, and give me a headache. No thanks.
-I've tried cocaine a few times in my life, very fun.
-I smoke marijuana on my days off, which I talked about in the first thread.
-I take prescription sedatives maybe once/week.
-I drink alcohol a few times/year when my friends are in town for festivals or Christmas or something. I hate drinking, everyone's an idiot and nausea is hell.

[Alexander III]

All of the above for me, but I didn't see that option until it was too late, so I just checked off the drugs that I have done individually.

I was wondering if anyone else is struggling with active addiction? I'm currently dealing with addiction to prescription sedatives and about to face a really bad withdrawal. This is the third time I've gone through withdrawal from the same drug and you would think I would learn my lesson. I'm also addicted to alcohol and marijuana, and in the past, I have gone through bad withdrawals from opiates.

I know that marijuana isn't a harmful drug, but I find it extremely difficult to go more then 24 hours without it. I like to get stoned as soon as I wake up, and then I get high again several times throughout the day. In the past, I managed to kick my addiction to alcohol and other drugs by only using marijuana but recently I have started drinking again. I'm not using opiates, but found a doctor who would give me sedatives and have been addicted for several months (again).

I'm so tired of the detox, and I've tried rehab, AA, NA, etc. None of it really works. I want to get high and that's what drives me. I'm also really ashamed of myself because many people only experiment with drugs but do not get addicted. I've been an addict for a long time. It's the only way I know to cope with life.

Just wondering if anyone else can relate? I've really been struggling the past few days. It's why I haven't been been posting here or writing anything. The pain is overwhelming. I've tried pretty much all drugs, but it's always pot and pills and alcohol that take me down. I'm not currently addicted to hard drugs, although I have done hard drugs in the past.


Wow im sorry to hear that, unfortunately I cannot relate, as with pot, as university I spent the last year smoking every night and when I got home this summer I stopped, just like that, it was easy and there was no side effects.

I think the best advice is always travel. Go someplace new so that

1) you won't know any dealers there
2) everything will distract you from the drugs as everything is different and not mundane like at home.

[tonywalt]

Wow im sorry to hear that, unfortunately I cannot relate, as with pot, as university I spent the last year smoking every night and when I got home this summer I stopped, just like that, it was easy and there was no side effects.

I think the best advice is always travel. Go someplace new so that

1) you won't know any dealers there
2) everything will distract you from the drugs as everything is different and not mundane like at home.

But then you meet someone or it gets broken out at a party...

[Alexander III]

But then you meet someone or it gets broken out at a party...

Thats were willpower ought to kick in

[TurquoiseSunset]

Easier said than done, Alex.

For me it's the 'normal' ciggies and booze. I don't smoke anymore - I tried them because I was curious and smoked socially (a pack a night) for a few months or a year or so (long time ago) and then decided to stop. It's not worth it. The only reason I liked it was because I had something to do with my hands. :rolleyes:

As for alcohol. I drink what I drink because I like the taste. Wine, cocktails, hard liquor, soda, water, whatever, if I feel like it I drink it. But I do so in moderation, because I don't like being drunk; I don't want to spend a night in jail and there are roadblocks everywhere these days; I might lose my job if I get arrested; and I've been in a terrible car accident where someone died (I was sober) and I really don't want to up the chances of experiencing that again, especially not when drunk or over the legal limit, for all the obvious reasons.

[paradoxical]

Well, I'm still here. Still struggling. Went through Xanax detox and it was really rough but not nearly as bad as last time. But now I'm using again, although I have managed to stay off of alcohol for three weeks and I've been off pot for four weeks, which is a major achievement for me. Even went to a couple 12 step meetings for the first time in years. I've been managing to go a few days without taking any pills and then I take a large amount because my tolerance is so high.

I'm still feeling the effects of the withdrawal and I've been unable to write or read much at all. And I've felt too out of it to try to post here but I still read the forum and lately I have been getting ideas for some poems that I want to start working on, so hopefully I'll be posting more in the future.

For what it's worth, I was doing much better in the past, and I had managed to go four and a half years without taking a drink. Of course, I was smoking pot everyday so I can't really say that I was truly sober. But I was hardly taking any pills at all. Just some painkillers and benzo maybe a few times a year. It did me a world of good staying off of alcohol and I only started drinking again last year. At first it wasn't that bad, but then I lost control again. Starting in December of last year, I also managed to go four months with no pot or alcohol. Then I got back on Xanax when I starting getting prescriptions from a doctor but I was able to control it for awhile before slipping into my old ways. And then I started smoking pot again.

I realize that marijuana isn't that bad but a large part of why I use is self medication. Not to reveal too much, but I've struggled for years with both clinical depression and severe anxiety and when I drink or smoke pot, it temporarily relieves the symptoms but when I sober up I'm much worse then before. It really makes the chemical imbalance in my brain much worse in the long run. Same thing with the pills. They really do help me and sometimes I need them to control my anxiety and feel normal but then I start taking them recreationally as well. The main symptoms of benzo withdrawal is severe anxiety, agitation, as well as body aches and insomnia. So, for someone who already has anxiety it is a living hell. Also, the antidepressants that I'm on make me extremely sick when I drink. Even if just drink a few beers. In the past, I drank on plenty of antidepressants before and it never really affected me but this is like no other. It came with a severe warning not to consume alcohol while taking the medication (which I immediately ignored). Now I have two day hangovers and am extremely sick the next day from just a few beers. The pain is too much. And if I get off the medication, my depression will get much worse. Not to mention that I've been warned several times by doctors that if I drink or smoke pot the antidepressants won't work. It's taken me years to accept that this is true.

I wanted to post this because this is the only forum where I'm an active member and I'm sure at least a few people remember me. Also, thank you smerdyakov and Alexander III for the good advice, and I mean that. I will try to reply later to what you guys said. I'm high on benzo right now and this is about all I can manage to type at the moment but I would like to comment on what you guys said. Hopefully a least a few people will remember me and someone will reply to this post. I hate it when I kill a thread, esp. with a sad, pitiful story like this. I was already feeling too embarrassed to post anything after what I had revealed earlier in the thread, but this group does seem pretty non-judgmental.

[JuniperWoolf]

I wonder which anti-depressants you're on. Guess: both anxiety and depression, they make you sick when they're combined with alcohol, I'm going to go with... Effexor?

I decided to be a smoker this weekend because I'd had too much vodka and woke up with a cigarette hangover, I could hardly breathe. That might also have to do with the fact that I had an inexplicable handprint bruised into my throat. Status quo.

[Darcy88]

Well, I'm still here. Still struggling. Went through Xanax detox and it was really rough but not nearly as bad as last time. But now I'm using again, although I have managed to stay off of alcohol for three weeks and I've been off pot for four weeks, which is a major achievement for me. Even went to a couple 12 step meetings for the first time in years. I've been managing to go a few days without taking any pills and then I take a large amount because my tolerance is so high.

I'm still feeling the effects of the withdrawal and I've been unable to write or read much at all. And I've felt too out of it to try to post here but I still read the forum and lately I have been getting ideas for some poems that I want to start working on, so hopefully I'll be posting more in the future.

For what it's worth, I was doing much better in the past, and I had managed to go four and a half years without taking a drink. Of course, I was smoking pot everyday so I can't really say that I was truly sober. But I was hardly taking any pills at all. Just some painkillers and benzo maybe a few times a year. It did me a world of good staying off of alcohol and I only started drinking again last year. At first it wasn't that bad, but then I lost control again. Starting in December of last year, I also managed to go four months with no pot or alcohol. Then I got back on Xanax when I starting getting prescriptions from a doctor but I was able to control it for awhile before slipping into my old ways. And then I started smoking pot again.

I realize that marijuana isn't that bad but a large part of why I use is self medication. Not to reveal too much, but I've struggled for years with both clinical depression and severe anxiety and when I drink or smoke pot, it temporarily relieves the symptoms but when I sober up I'm much worse then before. It really makes the chemical imbalance in my brain much worse in the long run. Same thing with the pills. They really do help me and sometimes I need them to control my anxiety and feel normal but then I start taking them recreationally as well. The main symptoms of benzo withdrawal is severe anxiety, agitation, as well as body aches and insomnia. So, for someone who already has anxiety it is a living hell. Also, the antidepressants that I'm on make me extremely sick when I drink. Even if just drink a few beers. In the past, I drank on plenty of antidepressants before and it never really affected me but this is like no other. It came with a severe warning not to consume alcohol while taking the medication (which I immediately ignored). Now I have two day hangovers and am extremely sick the next day from just a few beers. The pain is too much. And if I get off the medication, my depression will get much worse. Not to mention that I've been warned several times by doctors that if I drink or smoke pot the antidepressants won't work. It's taken me years to accept that this is true.

I wanted to post this because this is the only forum where I'm an active member and I'm sure at least a few people remember me. Also, thank you smerdyakov and Alexander III for the good advice, and I mean that. I will try to reply later to what you guys said. I'm high on benzo right now and this is about all I can manage to type at the moment but I would like to comment on what you guys said. Hopefully a least a few people will remember me and someone will reply to this post. I hate it when I kill a thread, esp. with a sad, pitiful story like this. I was already feeling too embarrassed to post anything after what I had revealed earlier in the thread, but this group does seem pretty non-judgmental.

I'm not an expert on addiction, but I'm gonna try offering you the best advice and support I can come up with. As long as you're still alive and still fighting there is hope for better times ahead. I don't do drugs, I barely drink, and I am able to do this not only by exercise of will but mainly because I avoid situations where drugs and alcohol are around. Avoiding people who trigger your cravings is important. I lost a lot of friends when I quit drinking, but since then I've gone on to pursue other more enriching things - like literature. Its hard because alcohol is thrust at you wherever you look, but there are ways to overcome the urges.

Replacing the rush you get from drugs with something else can also work wonders. When I go without cigarettes I wind up exercising a lot. Whenever I do inordinately indulge in alcohol and the daily cravings come I also start exercising a lot to ward them off. Getting out into nature also helps.

Everything I've said here works for anxiety too. I suffered anxiety for years. Its gotten much better, but I remember that the best thing to do was to go for a walk or a run. Getting out and walking, just walking, letting your eyes roam, your body stretch out and move.....can work miracles.

Hope you get better.

[Volya]

I only voted marijuana on the poll, since it's the only thing I've done more than once. I've also tried smoking, and ketamine. I've also been offered hard drugs.
Oddly though I've never tried alcohol.

My schools a relatively tame one, most kids have done no drugs at all. However there are 9 or 10 that have done weed and alcohol a lot, and 2 or 3 that do it regularly along with harder drugs.

The reason I haven't really tried any of them again, is because I never actually felt any major effect from them, and since they're health-damaging I figure it's best not to even try getting into them. The reason I tried marijuana to begin with, was because it was getting passed around with some friends, and I was very bored at the time.

The friends of mine that do them regularly are nice guys, and I haven't seen any change in their personality (most of them were crazy to begin with though xD). I've only seen one emergency related to drugs, and that was when a friend got very, very drunk.

[Alexander III]

I only voted marijuana on the poll, since it's the only thing I've done more than once. I've also tried smoking, and ketamine. I've also been offered hard drugs.
Oddly though I've never tried alcohol.

My schools a relatively tame one, most kids have done no drugs at all. However there are 9 or 10 that have done weed and alcohol a lot, and 2 or 3 that do it regularly along with harder drugs.

The reason I haven't really tried any of them again, is because I never actually felt any major effect from them, and since they're health-damaging I figure it's best not to even try getting into them. The reason I tried marijuana to begin with, was because it was getting passed around with some friends, and I was very bored at the time.

The friends of mine that do them regularly are nice guys, and I haven't seen any change in their personality (most of them were crazy to begin with though xD). I've only seen one emergency related to drugs, and that was when a friend got very, very drunk.

Those sentiments are truly adorable :)

[Desolation]

Drugs are bad, 'mkay. (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VCDnR6Px-co)

This.

I'm not going to go into detail about what exactly I've done, or the absolutely horrifying things I've seen...But, you don't go through what I have without growing a healthy disdain for drugs and drug culture.

Sure, they've worked well for some people, and awesome music has come out of it all...But, at this point, it seems irresponsible to advise anyone to try to find out if they're one of those people.

[tonywalt]

I only voted marijuana on the poll, since it's the only thing I've done more than once. I've also tried smoking, and ketamine. I've also been offered hard drugs.
Oddly though I've never tried alcohol.

My schools a relatively tame one, most kids have done no drugs at all. However there are 9 or 10 that have done weed and alcohol a lot, and 2 or 3 that do it regularly along with harder drugs.

The reason I haven't really tried any of them again, is because I never actually felt any major effect from them, and since they're health-damaging I figure it's best not to even try getting into them. The reason I tried marijuana to begin with, was because it was getting passed around with some friends, and I was very bored at the time.

The friends of mine that do them regularly are nice guys, and I haven't seen any change in their personality (most of them were crazy to begin with though xD). I've only seen one emergency related to drugs, and that was when a friend got very, very drunk.

I'd say you party harder than the Romney boys-and they are freakin crazy(heavy metal wail and with devil sign-both hands).

I smoked marijuana once (I think) and I started playing the piano really crazy-it was really weird. Then my mom came in and it was like she was floating. I think my dog got high too, because he ate a who bag of milk snacks, I think he had the munchies.

[Shalot]

I noticed that cocaine is one of the poll choices but crack is not. I realize that crack is a form of cocaine, but crack seems like a more menacing entity than its powdered predecessor. If someone who smokes crack tells you that he/she uses cocaine, then you envision someone snorting some white powder. If you were to later find out that he or she is actually smoking white rocks through a glass tube, then you feel deceived and little pissed off even though technically, he/she was telling you the truth.

I have no direct experience with either, other than knowing people who have done either one or the other or both. Both cause damage, but the people who snorted their cocaine in powder form didn't have the same degree of problems that the crack smokers have.

Cocaine is not good, but crack seems to be far worse, and just calling it cocaine seems to be sugarcoating it a bit. That's just my opinion though

[Shevek]

I noticed that cocaine is one of the poll choices but crack is not. I realize that crack is a form of cocaine, but crack seems like a more menacing entity than its powdered predecessor... Both cause damage, but the people who snorted their cocaine in powder form didn't have the same degree of problems that the crack smokers have.

You sure about that? It seems more menacing, yes, but that is mostly because of class-based portrayals of it in the media and misinformation regarding the effects of crack cocaine.

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/cocaine/crack.htm

[Volya]

Those sentiments are truly adorable :)

I don't get it...

[Alexander III]

I don't get it...

I was gifting you an earned compliment

[tonywalt]

I hope you got my tongue and cheek post - otherwise I look a right %rat!

Seriously, your post sounds very innocent for hardened and heavily tatted guys like us:crazy:

[paradoxical]

I wonder which anti-depressants you're on. Guess: both anxiety and depression, they make you sick when they're combined with alcohol, I'm going to go with... Effexor?

I decided to be a smoker this weekend because I'd had too much vodka and woke up with a cigarette hangover, I could hardly breathe. That might also have to do with the fact that I had an inexplicable handprint bruised into my throat. Status quo.

No, it's not Effexor. I've been on that before (and drank on it) along with many other medications over the years. Right now I'm taking a newer medication called Viibryd along with Lamictal. There's something about Viibryd that makes it really difficult for your body to metabolize alcohol. It will also boost the effects of other drugs such as benzo, which is nice, but what it does to you when you drink is just horrible.

Be careful with the cigarettes: it's the worst addiction there is. Not to mention the deadliest, with alcohol close behind. If you're not addicted, then now is the time to stop. It's not worth it. I wish to God I would have never smoked my first cigarette, although I am proud to say that I've now gone seven years without a cigarette and I don't believe I'll ever go back.


I'm not an expert on addiction, but I'm gonna try offering you the best advice and support I can come up with. As long as you're still alive and still fighting there is hope for better times ahead. I don't do drugs, I barely drink, and I am able to do this not only by exercise of will but mainly because I avoid situations where drugs and alcohol are around. Avoiding people who trigger your cravings is important. I lost a lot of friends when I quit drinking, but since then I've gone on to pursue other more enriching things - like literature. Its hard because alcohol is thrust at you wherever you look, but there are ways to overcome the urges.

Replacing the rush you get from drugs with something else can also work wonders. When I go without cigarettes I wind up exercising a lot. Whenever I do inordinately indulge in alcohol and the daily cravings come I also start exercising a lot to ward them off. Getting out into nature also helps.

Everything I've said here works for anxiety too. I suffered anxiety for years. Its gotten much better, but I remember that the best thing to do was to go for a walk or a run. Getting out and walking, just walking, letting your eyes roam, your body stretch out and move.....can work miracles.

Hope you get better.

I need to start exercising. I had started jogging when I quit cigarettes and it worked wonders. I've been telling myself that I'm going to join a gym but have never followed through on it. There is a walking track I can use, and that does help. I try to cope with my anxiety by isolating and staying indoors. I've spent the last two days doing nothing but sleeping and lying in bed, which provides short term relief but ends up making my anxiety and depression much worse.

I wish there were more opportunities around here to to get out and experience nature. Walking through the woods is one of my favorite activities and it really does have a calming effect. Unfortunately, almost all the woods have been cut down for agriculture and you can't even use the fields to walk. It's all patrolled by police and private security. We do have one small trail for public use, which is better then nothing, but it's currently flooded out. Where I used to live, there were so many hiking trails and parks and just beautiful scenery. The only drawback was that they were always filled with other people out walking. Over here, you almost never encounter another person in the woods so even though there is limited opportunity, you have the place to yourself and that is a really relaxing feeling. Just total privacy.

[OrphanPip]

You sure about that? It seems more menacing, yes, but that is mostly because of class-based portrayals of it in the media and misinformation regarding the effects of crack cocaine.

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/cocaine/crack.htm

There is some basis though. Smoked cocaine is a quicker mode of delivery, so heavily addicted people tend to move towards crack. Smoking crack then comes with a number of additional health issues, like tooth loss, blisters, cracked lips, infections, and chronic cough. A regular crack user has a hard time hiding their addiction in comparison to someone who snorts coke, this makes holding jobs more difficult and exacerbates problems.

On a physiological level, in terms of addiction and damage to the heart and brain they are not significantly different.

I used to know a crack head who was able to hook his key chain onto his teeth, he used to do it as a party trick.

Personally, I don't touch drugs, I grew up around enough crack houses and ****ed up people to not want anything to do with it.

[E.A Rumfield]

Psychedelics like mushrooms and to a lesser extent LSD can have an awakening effect, and can be an important experience. Some people do drugs like that just to get trashed. That's the wrong way to go about it. With moderation, every 6 months to a year can have a profound and positive effect on the way you see the world. You open up. You judge things less and think more. I've done cocaine a handful of times. It's not really worth it. I like smoking weed. I usually smoke once at the end of the day. I like being sober early in the day. Again something that is positive if not abused. I like drinking every now and than. Sometimes I binge drink but usually I can handle myself. For the most part I can't face the world for long periods of time without some kind of intoxicant. I usually can't relate to people that indulge in nothing. I think there is something wrong with those people. What is there to really like about this world that you want to be lucid every minute. Especially weed, drugs can have a medicinal effect. Sometimes I'll get remarkably sad or lonely and I'll just smoke a little and it's not that the feeling disappears but it becomes reconcilable.

[E.A Rumfield]

I noticed that cocaine is one of the poll choices but crack is not. I realize that crack is a form of cocaine, but crack seems like a more menacing entity than its powdered predecessor. If someone who smokes crack tells you that he/she uses cocaine, then you envision someone snorting some white powder. If you were to later find out that he or she is actually smoking white rocks through a glass tube, then you feel deceived and little pissed off even though technically, he/she was telling you the truth.

I have no direct experience with either, other than knowing people who have done either one or the other or both. Both cause damage, but the people who snorted their cocaine in powder form didn't have the same degree of problems that the crack smokers have.

Cocaine is not good, but crack seems to be far worse, and just calling it cocaine seems to be sugarcoating it a bit. That's just my opinion though

A drug like cocaine is ****ed up because it is NEVER actually cocaine. You could be railing lines of coke and sheet rock for all you know.

[Paulclem]

Psychedelics like mushrooms and to a lesser extent LSD can have an awakening effect, and can be an important experience. Some people do drugs like that just to get trashed. That's the wrong way to go about it. With moderation, every 6 months to a year can have a profound and positive effect on the way you see the world. You open up. You judge things less and think more. I've done cocaine a handful of times. It's not really worth it. I like smoking weed. I usually smoke once at the end of the day. I like being sober early in the day. Again something that is positive if not abused. I like drinking every now and than. Sometimes I binge drink but usually I can handle myself. For the most part I can't face the world for long periods of time without some kind of intoxicant. I usually can't relate to people that indulge in nothing. I think there is something wrong with those people. What is there to really like about this world that you want to be lucid every minute. Especially weed, drugs can have a medicinal effe- ct. Sometimes I'll get remarkably sad or lonely and I'll just smoke a little and it's not that the feeling disappears but it becomes reconcilable.

This raises the question as to why people who have used drugs in their past often stop and don't return to them? Maybe they never return to them. What might be a profound experience at one time of life might become irrelevant/ be comparatively insignificant compared to other experiences.

On another tack, my sister works in a secure mental health unit for those criminals who have been convicted of very serious crimes and have a mental illness. These are people for whom drug use has had a devastating effect, as it has for their victims, (often their children).

After seeing the effect on those people, you can understand what her attitude to drugs is.

[E.A Rumfield]

This raises the question as to why people who have used drugs in their past often stop and don't return to them? Maybe they never return to them. What might be a profound experience at one time of life might become irrelevant/ be comparatively insignificant compared to other experiences.

On another tack, my sister works in a secure mental health unit for those criminals who have been convicted of very serious crimes and have a mental illness. These are people for whom drug use has had a devastating effect, as it has for their victims, (often their children).

After seeing the effect on those people, you can understand what her attitude to drugs is.

It doesn't become irrelevant. One time. One experience can change your life forever. You never need to return to the drugs it already happened. Fact is most young people, young men in particular use drugs. I am still a young man and I cannot speak for what my future holds and it could very well be drug free but one thing is for sure my mindset will not change drastically. It is not a mindset created by drugs but perhaps a mindset at this point which occasionally requires drugs. Some people say just to love and be loved just once for a day a minute an hour is enough to make up for a life of loneliness.

To your next point ANYTHING can be abused. Don't blame drugs. Drugs can be positive. Some drugs sometimes. Should hamburgers be illegal because your neighbor Bill eats 20 super sized Whooper meals a day. You have to do drugs to talk about drugs. If you never did a drug you are speaking from a baseless platform. Mushrooms was a totally positive experience for me. When I was tripping it was kind of stressful. Then I went into this self evaluation phase then when I was coming down I felt good about everything. I felt totally capable of love and care and it is something that stuck with me.

[paradoxical]

A drug like cocaine is ****ed up because it is NEVER actually cocaine. You could be railing lines of coke and sheet rock for all you know.

From what I hear, there is a world of difference between pharmaceutical grade coke and what is available on the street. Almost a different drug entirely. Supposedly the effects are unbelievable and you can never really settle for the cut **** on the street again.

[E.A Rumfield]

That's funny if you were used to doing coke you got from your dealer then you did some pure ****, you'd probably OD. Freud used to do coke he thought it was like a super drug. I think a pure cocaine high is probably like pure MDMA. A lot of kids from where I'm from like to eat oxycotin and xannax. That's poison.

This video is funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kOoyWVDNZc

[Paulclem]

It doesn't become irrelevant. One time. One experience can change your life forever. You never need to return to the drugs it already happened. Fact is most young people, young men in particular use drugs. I am still a young man and I cannot speak for what my future holds and it could very well be drug free but one thing is for sure my mindset will not change drastically. It is not a mindset created by drugs but perhaps a mindset at this point which occasionally requires drugs. Some people say just to love and be loved just once for a day a minute an hour is enough to make up for a life of loneliness.

To your next point ANYTHING can be abused. Don't blame drugs. Drugs can be positive. Some drugs sometimes. Should hamburgers be illegal because your neighbor Bill eats 20 super sized Whooper meals a day. You have to do drugs to talk about drugs. If you never did a drug you are speaking from a baseless platform. Mushrooms was a totally positive experience for me. When I was tripping it was kind of stressful. Then I went into this self evaluation phase then when I was coming down I felt good about everything. I felt totally capable of love and care and it is something that stuck with me.

It doesn't become irrelevant. One time. One experience can change your life forever.

I don't know how you can know that. What we can ask is where all the hippies etc who were into hallucinogenics in the 60s/70s went. We know where they went - into more sedate lives on the whole, and I bet most of them don't bother.

I do agree that a drug experience can change your life, but it changes your life at that point. It is unlikely to resonate with the same effect a few years down the line. Otherwise people wouldn't be able to move on.

I am still a young man and I cannot speak for what my future holds and it could very well be drug free but one thing is for sure my mindset will not change drastically.

Of course you can't know that either, but it is likely that your mindset will change as everyone else's changes as you grow older. It's not a criticism, it's just life. And would you really want to be thinking and doing the same things in fifty years? I don't suppose anyone could answer that, but looking at the wider population, people don't tend to.

Some people say just to love and be loved just once for a day a minute an hour is enough to make up for a life of loneliness.

Sounds too romantic and idealistic a view to me.


To your next point ANYTHING can be abused.

Ok, but eating hamburgers doesn't invoke psychosis leading to serious mental illness and, in the cases I was referring to, murder. (Not much else has that effect either).

Don't blame drugs.

But it's not me blaming the drugs for the instances I mentioned, but the reports on the prisoners/ patients. (I haven't seen any of course, but my sister works with them and knows their case histories etc).

The reason I brought it up is that it is very easy to become cosy and accepting of drugs without remembering that for some it ruins their lives causing the onset of psychosis.

That's besides the effects it has upon the communities where drugs are grown and trafficked from, an aspect which is sorely neglected in my view. Whilst relatively rich western people are happily getting high, local communities have to suffer the presence of criminal organisations over which they have no control. You can see it in the news - gang fights and gun crime rising in Mexico - with no real connection being made in users minds to the deals they are making and the suffering this is causing elsewhere.

If you never did a drug you are speaking from a baseless platform.

Yes I would be.

[E.A Rumfield]

It doesn't become irrelevant. One time. One experience can change your life forever.

I don't know how you can know that. What we can ask is where all the hippies etc who were into hallucinogenics in the 60s/70s went. We know where they went - into more sedate lives on the whole, and I bet most of them don't bother.

I do agree that a drug experience can change your life, but it changes your life at that point. It is unlikely to resonate with the same effect a few years down the line. Otherwise people wouldn't be able to move on.

I am still a young man and I cannot speak for what my future holds and it could very well be drug free but one thing is for sure my mindset will not change drastically.

Of course you can't know that either, but it is likely that your mindset will change as everyone else's changes as you grow older. It's not a criticism, it's just life. And would you really want to be thinking and doing the same things in fifty years? I don't suppose anyone could answer that, but looking at the wider population, people don't tend to.

Some people say just to love and be loved just once for a day a minute an hour is enough to make up for a life of loneliness.

Sounds too romantic and idealistic a view to me.


To your next point ANYTHING can be abused.

Ok, but eating hamburgers doesn't invoke psychosis leading to serious mental illness and, in the cases I was referring to, murder. (Not much else has that effect either).

Don't blame drugs.

But it's not me blaming the drugs for the instances I mentioned, but the reports on the prisoners/ patients. (I haven't seen any of course, but my sister works with them and knows their case histories etc).

The reason I brought it up is that it is very easy to become cosy and accepting of drugs without remembering that for some it ruins their lives causing the onset of psychosis.

That's besides the effects it has upon the communities where drugs are grown and trafficked from, an aspect which is sorely neglected in my view. Whilst relatively rich western people are happily getting high, local communities have to suffer the presence of criminal organisations over which they have no control. You can see it in the news - gang fights and gun crime rising in Mexico - with no real connection being made in users minds to the deals they are making and the suffering this is causing elsewhere.

If you never did a drug you are speaking from a baseless platform.

Yes I would be.

You don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of research has been done on these sort of drugs. Read what Huxley wrote about peyote. You talk about gangs and blah blah. You're just blowing smoke from anti drug propaganda. Where did all the hippies go? All the hippies ate too much acid for too long and burntout. Tim Leary was a false prophet. He spoke of these drugs as the cure for world pain and stupid went along with it. You cannot understand what it is like to eat a bag of mushrooms and 2 hours later wind up in another world. And if you have never been to the other world don't talk about it we don't want your opinions. If you are not a violent persons you will not become violent under the influence of mushrooms or LSD or whatever. If you are an intelligent and consenting adult prepared to pay the emotional toll to visit that other world and if you are prepared with an open mind you can experience something profound. Loss of self identity a feeling of being close with nature or the world around you or god. People have been eating drugs since there were people. You don't get it but it is something very much connected to our existence. People are always trying to get closer to god. Monks would fast and the fasting would bring on delirium eventually, a delirium exactly like the effects you would get if you consumed something. Monks would whip themselves until they became delirious bringing on visions of god. What about sensory depreration? 99 out of 100 people take a drug like that and come out the other side just like they were. And if you go crazy you would've gone crazy eventually the drugs just brought it on quicker.

[E.A Rumfield]

[COLOR="sienna"]

Sounds too romantic and idealistic a view to me.


Most people don't even get that so if you are lucky enough to experience a pure and complete love even for a second, it is certainly enough. Especially when you think of all the people alone drinking themselves to death in studio apartments. Especially when you think of war and hatred and murder. Starvation and the utter sadness of most peoples lives most of the time.

[E.A Rumfield]

You mentioned the problems caused by drug trafficking. That is a very interesting deal. I don't know if you are familiar with the process for making MDMA or ecstacy. It involves cutting down many very rare trees and extracting the needed chemical. After that a very dangerous process occurs where the drug is made. The poor village people are usually forced to make it causing damage to their health all so some yuppie clown can bug out at a rave. Cocaine is the same thing.

Another point when was the last time someone got shot over a bud light? You make something illegal you make it desired and dangerous. There would be no drug problem if drugs were legal. People will always try to get high. Its pointless and dumb to try to stop it.

[Paulclem]

You don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of research has been done on these sort of drugs. Read what Huxley wrote about peyote. You talk about gangs and blah blah. You're just blowing smoke from anti drug propaganda. Where did all the hippies go? All the hippies ate too much acid for too long and burntout. Tim Leary was a false prophet. He spoke of these drugs as the cure for world pain and stupid went along with it. You cannot understand what it is like to eat a bag of mushrooms and 2 hours later wind up in another world. And if you have never been to the other world don't talk about it we don't want your opinions. If you are not a violent persons you will not become violent under the influence of mushrooms or LSD or whatever. If you are an intelligent and consenting adult prepared to pay the emotional toll to visit that other world and if you are prepared with an open mind you can experience something profound. Loss of self identity a feeling of being close with nature or the world around you or god. People have been eating drugs since there were people. You don't get it but it is something very much connected to our existence. People are always trying to get closer to god. Monks would fast and the fasting would bring on delirium eventually, a delirium exactly like the effects you would get if you consumed something. Monks would whip themselves until they became delirious bringing on visions of god. What about sensory depreration? 99 out of 100 people take a drug like that and come out the other side just like they were. And if you go crazy you would've gone crazy eventually the drugs just brought it on quicker.

I didn't specify which types of drugs they used, but make no mistake, these people are there. they may well have had underlying mental problems before - or not - who knows, but what is certain is the effect they had on the people around them. There were plenty of other casualties too. Peter Green from Fleetwood mac etc.
http://www.nndb.com/people/653/000043524/

Apparently you think I'm just anti drugs, but the situation is so complex that it is difficult to take a one view approach. The war on drugs hasn't worked. I've said before, (on another thread), that we should have a new tack and legalise them, get the cash, which would otherwise be going into the pockets of criminals, and use it to support those who become ill or addicted.

It has certain moral drawbacks in that you would be assisting some of the people who do the stuff in their own downfall, but they may well have done that anyway.

I'm not sure why you thik the gangs don't exist - they do, but of course they don't affect you as the end user so from that perspective it doesn't matter.

I'm also not sure why I would want to read Huxley again when there's plenty of research current. Apparently cannabis causes some IQ loss - permanent - in teens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19372456

Of course it's conveniant to avoid uncomfortable truths about something you're engaged in - I know this too from my own experiences.

All the hippies ate too much acid for too long and burntout.

Nah - most of them grew out of it.

If you are an intelligent and consenting adult prepared to pay the emotional toll to visit that other world and if you are prepared with an open mind you can experience something profound.

But is it profound? Of course it seems so at the time, but what I'm saying is that in the context of life's experiences, it's just another one. Perhaps because it's a vibrant and unsettling experience that seems to offer insights, it's given a lot of credence at the time, but ulimately it means very little.

There used to be an assumption that acid etc would open the mind to psychic and spiritual experiences. Marvellous as they may be, I no longer think this is the case. Yet there's a subtle hook there isn't there? Maybe this time...

[Paulclem]

You mentioned the problems caused by drug trafficking. That is a very interesting deal. I don't know if you are familiar with the process for making MDMA or ecstacy. It involves cutting down many very rare trees and extracting the needed chemical. After that a very dangerous process occurs where the drug is made. The poor village people are usually forced to make it causing damage to their health all so some yuppie clown can bug out at a rave. Cocaine is the same thing.

Another point when was the last time someone got shot over a bud light? You make something illegal you make it desired and dangerous. There would be no drug problem if drugs were legal. People will always try to get high. Its pointless and dumb to try to stop it.

It looks like we agree on a few things. :D I missed your second post before I re-posted.

[E.A Rumfield]

But is it profound? Of course it seems so at the time, but what I'm saying is that in the context of life's experiences, it's just another one. Perhaps because it's a vibrant and unsettling experience that seems to offer insights, it's given a lot of credence at the time, but ulimately it means very little.


If anything it shows you how reality is not exactly as we perceive it. It's all about brain chemistry. The way we perceive the world around us it very much based on our brain chemistry. Isn't that an incredibly interesting thing? To know the world as this constant place then to find out it may not be such. Who says the world we are viewing is reality? Who says that there is one single reality or understanding? Humanity biggest problem is our passionate need to understand everything around us when it is better to take a step back.

About weed or alcohol causing brain damage-imagine a herd of buffalo. The herd is only as fast as the slowest buffalo. The slowest buffalo will die first increasing the speed and overall health of the herd. I like to think of my brain like that. You can only kill what shouldn't be there. I'm kind of kidding here.

[Paulclem]

If anything it shows you how reality is not exactly as we perceive it. It's all about brain chemistry. The way we perceive the world around us it very much based on our brain chemistry. Isn't that an incredibly interesting thing? To know the world as this constant place then to find out it may not be such. Who says the world we are viewing is reality? Who says that there is one single reality or understanding? Humanity biggest problem is our passionate need to understand everything around us when it is better to take a step back.

.

I agree. I found the change in perception at the time to be interesting/revealing, but it was only at that particular time. The direct experience of it may be useful in the short term in giving an insight, but you can study reality through meditation. You don't get a trip, but it's stable and directed towards particular aims, and so is useful.

I would say that there isn't a single reality, but that conclusion comes from another source, and although hallucinogens hinted at it, it's not something you can be sure of. Something like meditation can do that.