What Attracts You First? Poll #2 for Men Only

[Calidore]

Okay, guys, here's your poll. Items were collected from this thread:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69660

Physical attributes make up the top half, and intangibles are the second half. Pick the ones that make your eyes wander and posture improve (as opposed to "well, that's nice"), and be truthful--honest results mean a more honest and interesting discussion in the thread. And if you don't see what you like here, you shoulda spoken up in the thread.

And of course, thanks to Cacian for starting the thread in the first place, without whom etc.

Enjoy, and discuss!

[Charles Darnay]

I had to vote for both because they go hand-in-hand

[Nikhar]

You did not put the thing that attracts me the most in the poll!!! Their smileee <3 <3 <3

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

I like a shapely rump and someone I can tip the bottle with.
There was a building contractor I worked with a couple of years, that was often heard saying: "I want a rump (he used the "a" word) tight enough to bounce a quarter off of",
While I'm not quite so crass, I understood where he was coming from.

Canova too, must have been an admirier of "baby's got back"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Canova-Three_Graces_340_degree_view.jpg/360px-Canova-Three_Graces_340_degree_view.jpg

[stlukesguild]

Canova too, must have been an admirier of "baby's got back"


Oh... most certainly. Steve Martin... who is quite the art collector an connoisseur... wrote an essay in which he points out the fact that Canova's Three Graces have long been admired as examples of the three finest a**es in the history of art:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7524075852_cfe550d2a0.jpg

Of course Bernini was no slouch:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7524078212_48c0cb010f_m.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7524078212_48c0cb010f.jpg)

[stlukesguild]

The Stones say it all... at its most basic and vulgar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqD--BNBmtI

Having said that, I should admit that there is much to say for a beautiful face. My brother will never let me forget an incident that occurred when I was a horny 20-something. Driving on the interstate, I was passed by a red convertible Mustang with license plates that read, "MS PINTO". The driver had long, flowing blonde hair... and I could not help wanting to see just who this Miss Pinto was. I stepped on the gas... and she accelerated as well. Finally I caught up with her as she exited the highway... at the same exit as I was headed to. I pulled alongside of her and looked over in anticipation...

and this is not far from what greeted me:





























http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JdYSfjVIWn4/S25YF2Yel5I/AAAAAAAAA_A/tCw2o-rV1z4/s400/madg+bucky.jpg

:eek2::yikes:

My brother screamed with laughter, let out a whinny, and asked, "You sure you still wanna ride Ms. Pinto?" He then started singing the theme song from the old television show, Mr. Ed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU

:smilielol5:

[Delta40]

Oh you guys are just conning yourselves now! you say you like a nice body but really you'll take the girl who can cook a dish that agrees with your picky digestive system and will keep house for you and what you spawn while you wave it round with other women. Us nice girls always lose out!

sorry, couldn't resist it :angel:

[Scheherazade]

Shame we don't have "good cook" or "compliant" or "subservient" in the poll.

[Alexander III]

Shame we don't have "good cook" or "compliant" or "subservient" in the poll.

Wait, is this a poll for what attracts us in women or what qualities look good on the cv of the maid you are thinking of hiring?

[Scheherazade]

Wait, is this a poll for what attracts us in women or what qualities look good on the cv of the maid you are thinking of hiring?Didn't realise there was a difference.

[stlukesguild]

Hmmm... now who's playing to the stereotypes?:toetap05:

[Darcy88]

I picked chemistry. That's what it all really comes down to in my opinion. Doesn't really matter what the girl is like, as long as there is chemistry, as long as the relationship is overall positive, healthy, mutually beneficial.....you know you're found someone special, someone right.

I just realized that the poll reads "what attracts you FIRST." In that case I guess I would pick nerdiness or craziness. I'm such a nerd and act so crazy I can only be comfortable and myself around someone who is as nerdy and as crazy or as tolerant of nerdiness and craziness as I am. And I find that the people who are most tolerant of nerdiness and craziness are those who themselves are big nerds or have a character that has been or is often deemed "crazy."

Like glasses....I've said this before on these forums....glasses are like lingerie to me. And I think lots of women know that many men feel the same way because they sell glasses that are just glasses....do not enhance one's ability to see, and are really just a fashion accessory.

So yeah, nerdiness and craziness. Nothing turns me on more. And you can tell right away how nerdy and crazy a woman is. You can tell by the way she looks, acts, speaks. Its obvious. The best way to determine how big a nerd or how crazy someone is is to simply say something really nerdy or really crazy and judge their reaction to it. If they react positively you know you've come across someone who is interesting.....artistic...accepting. I suppose acceptance really is the main thing. You need to find someone who accepts you for who you are - the good the bad and the ugly. All of you. Such a person is hard to find and even harder to keep - one of the great facts of life.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Well I think we are seeing a bit more realism on the men's poll here, with 'face as a whole' (what I voted for), 'breasts' and 'build' so far coming top, none of the 'nice to kittens like' business over on the other poll. It is true that other things come after the initial attraction phrase, such as personality and ability to pick up socks etc, etc, but certainly I am attracted to a face/overall appearance first.

I only really noticed how attractive that Kate Middleton woman is the other day as I was watching the tennis. I'm not hung up on her but she is the sort I would find attractive. Of course, if the women's poll is to be believed (which it is not) I could crank up the humour, give her a bright smile and let me cool green eyes shine and I am sure that would easily beat the competition. I could easily beat the status of the future King of England no problem I'm sure. :santasmil

[Emil Miller]

Well I think we are seeing a bit more realism on the men's poll here, with 'face as a whole' (what I voted for), 'breasts' and 'build' so far coming top, none of the 'nice to kittens like' business over on the other poll. It is true that other things come after the initial attraction phrase, such as personality and ability to pick up socks etc, etc, but certainly I am attracted to a face/overall appearance first.

I only really noticed how attractive that Kate Middleton woman is the other day as I was watching the tennis. I'm not hung up on her but she is the sort I would find attractive. Of course, if the women's poll is to be believed (which it is not) I could crank up the humour, give her a bright smile and let me cool green eyes shine and I am sure that would easily beat the competition. I could easily beat the status of the future King of England no problem I'm sure. :santasmil

I wonder if the Duchess of Cambridge is any good at picking up socks. I imagine that if Willy went about dropping socks around Kensington Palace, there would be a flunky appropriately positioned to collect them.

[Patrick_Bateman]

I think there's a big difference between what attracts me first and what I first notice about a woman.

Nice liegs always catch my attention but the eyes are the the first point of attraction.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

The difference between men and women is that we know we're shallow and all that and will admit to it. Women like to pretend they're not, but they are just as bad as us.

[Emil Miller]

The difference between men and women is that we know we're shallow and all that and will admit to it. Women like to pretend they're not, but they are just as bad as us.

This poll is supposed to be about the attractiveness of women not their perceived faults. For most men life would be unbearably dull without them.

[Alexander III]

This poll is supposed to be about the attractiveness of women not their perceived faults. For most men life would be unbearably dull without them.

Depends which ones. As long as the whore houses remain open, most men would be fine.

[qimissung]

Well I think we are seeing a bit more realism on the men's poll here, with 'face as a whole' (what I voted for), 'breasts' and 'build' so far coming top, none of the 'nice to kittens like' business over on the other poll. It is true that other things come after the initial attraction phrase, such as personality and ability to pick up socks etc, etc, but certainly I am attracted to a face/overall appearance first.

I only really noticed how attractive that Kate Middleton woman is the other day as I was watching the tennis. I'm not hung up on her but she is the sort I would find attractive. Of course, if the women's poll is to be believed (which it is not) I could crank up the humour, give her a bright smile and let me cool green eyes shine and I am sure that would easily beat the competition. I could easily beat the status of the future King of England no problem I'm sure. :santasmil


I am shocked, Neely, just shocked...:eek6:...I had no. idea. that you were so, so jaded...(sob)...all my illusions about the good ones, the kind to kitten ones simply stripped away. I guess I should have known what with all that beer you drink. :D

:leaving:

[BienvenuJDC]

But the question is what attracts you FIRST! If anyone picks anything that isn't physical (especially visual), then you're just lying. You can't be first attracted to a personality unless you don't know them in person. Even then, you don't really know a person.

[Emil Miller]

Depends which ones. As long as the whore houses remain open, most men would be fine.

An attractive man has little need of whore houses but, even in those cases where he did, there is no replacement for the female who captures his heart.

[Delta40]

I admit when seated on a crowded train I study all those groins in my face. How can I not when I'm at eye level with them?

[tonywalt]

Two men(?) are first attracted to craziness in a woman. Really?

[Scheherazade]

I admit when seated on a crowded train I study all those groins in my face. How can I not when I'm at eye level with them?See, there are advantages to being short.

I usually end up examining their knees.

[Emil Miller]

I admit when seated on a crowded train I study all those groins in my face. How can I not when I'm at eye level with them?

Easily, as a member of a literary forum, shouldn't you be reading some worthy tome?

[Helga]

My job is kind of a women dominated place but the electrical system is being upgraded (or something) and I really enjoy all those men climbing stairs, working hard.... I always seem to forget something these days and need to walk passed them again and again, wonder why.

[Emil Miller]

My job is kind of a women dominated place but the electrical system is being upgraded (or something) and I really enjoy all those men climbing stairs, working hard.... I always seem to forget something these days and need to walk passed them again and again, wonder why.

Does this mean that there's life beyond the television set ?

[Delta40]

Easily, as a member of a literary forum, shouldn't you be reading some worthy tome?

On the bus to the train station yes. But with music in my ears, that morning train to the city is really a thrilling ride....

[Alexander III]

An attractive man has little need of whore houses but, even in those cases where he did, there is no replacement for the female who captures his heart.

An attractive man has much need for whore houses as they are the only women who do not fall in love with him after he sleeps with them.

[Delta40]

An attractive man has much need for whore houses as they are the only women who do not fall in love with him after he sleeps with them.

Lol. All men need a whore in one form or another.

[Darcy88]

An attractive man has much need for whore houses as they are the only women who do not fall in love with him after he sleeps with them.

This is actually true. I've never used a whore house and never expect to, but, as bad as it sounds, this is true.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

This poll is supposed to be about the attractiveness of women not their perceived faults. For most men life would be unbearably dull without them.
Which is why I voted for face, butt. breasts, and body.

I admit when seated on a crowded train I study all those groins in my face. How can I not when I'm at eye level with them?
I've always wondered, do women examine a man's groin area to try and discern his endowment?

An attractive man has much need for whore houses as they are the only women who do not fall in love with him after he sleeps with them.


This is actually true. I've never used a whore house and never expect to, but, as bad as it sounds, this is true.
How exactly is this true. If it's true, it must be provable. As it stands, it sounds like the boasting of over-inflated egos.

[Darcy88]

Which is why I voted for face, butt. breasts, and body.

I've always wondered, do women examine a man's groin area to try and discern his endowment?



How exactly is this true. If it's true, it must be provable. As it stands, it sounds like the boasting of over-inflated egos.

Well the opposite is true too.....its very hard for me to have intercourse with a woman I am very attracted to and not find myself soon falling madly in love with her. Actually from the first act I find myself plunging hard into the blessed abyss of love.

Sex releases oxytocin. I remember from somewhere also that physical attractiveness - symmetry of figure and features - itself releases chemicals that push one towards the feeling of love. Physical attractiveness alone can create infatuation and I like to think of infatuation as the initial step on that pyramid which has at its apex the experience of true love.

This is the reason I live like a monk and most often avoid members of the opposite sex as best I can. Its so easy to fall in love. And I know from my experiences with women that it is extremely hard for most women to have sex with a man and not fall in love with him, particularly one that she is to a great degree attracted to physically. When I am with a woman who is able to have sex without any emotional involvement a part of me recoils in horror. It is a thing so foreign to my way of being. Sex and love are in my mind inextricably conjoined.

It sounds like over-inflated ego and maybe it is that as well, but I still think its true. At least its been true in my experiences. One of the reasons I abstain from casual sex is the emotional harm it can do to my partner. So called "friends with benefits" relationships usually result in one partner developing a strong attraction to the other and then suffering the great misery of unrequited love.

[prendrelemick]

Well the opposite is true too.....its very hard for me to have intercourse with a woman I am very attracted to and not find myself soon falling madly in love with her. Actually from the first act I find myself plunging hard into the blessed abyss of love.

Sex releases oxytocin. I remember from somewhere also that physical attractiveness - symmetry of figure and features - itself releases chemicals that push one towards the feeling of love. Physical attractiveness alone can create infatuation and I like to think of infatuation as the initial step on that pyramid which has at its apex the experience of true love.

This is the reason I live like a monk and most often avoid members of the opposite sex as best I can. Its so easy to fall in love. And I know from my experiences with women that it is extremely hard for most women to have sex with a man and not fall in love with him, particularly one that she is to a great degree attracted to physically. When I am with a woman who is able to have sex without any emotional involvement a part of me recoils in horror. It is a thing so foreign to my way of being. Sex and love are in my mind inextricably conjoined.

It sounds like over-inflated ego and maybe it is that as well, but I still think its true. At least its been true in my experiences. One of the reasons I abstain from casual sex is the emotional harm it can do to my partner. So called "friends with benefits" relationships usually result in one partner developing a strong attraction to the other and then suffering the great misery of unrequited love.

Which brings us to the purpose of casual sex.
It's not for procreation and not just to requite lust, it can be about ego and peer pressure, but as you say is, or can be, part of falling in love. Many relationships begin with sex rather than lead to sex. I think there is also a strong urge to get naked and hold someone - to feel safe and not alone for a night, it feels good for both participants.

I should just add I was last in the game way back in the 70s.

[cacian]

An attractive man has much need for whore houses as they are the only women who do not fall in love with him after he sleeps with them.

this word is so offensive. sorry.
there has got to be another less offensive word to use.

[Emil Miller]

this word is so offensive. sorry.
there has got to be another less offensive word to use.

You could use 'woman of easy virtue'.

[cacian]

You could use 'woman of easy virtue'.

Haha yes that's a nicer way to put it.
I think prostitution is bad enough without having to persecute the poeple who sadly involved in it.
Prostitution is one of the worst form of human abuse and so it is already punishing to those who make it so for others to use and abuse.
Those who seek it in my eyes are worst. A prostitute provides a service for some who I feel are lower then prostitution itself.
why isn't there an equally degrading name for them. A punter is almost giving it and getting away with it.
Sorry I do not mean to distract from the thread.

[Delta40]

There is no such word as worser (sorry, but it really offends me) High end prostitutes live a very fine life, are in peak condition, drug free, disease free and highly selective of their clientele. Here in Australia they have an ABN (Australian Business Number) and report their business income to the tax office just like any other business.

Low end prostitutes on the other hand, are not so fortunate in terms of safety, health or income and neither are their honest 'punters' who must get their jollies illegally and at a riskier price to their health. Great fodder for the sickos though.

[cacian]

There is no such word as worser (sorry, but it really offends me) High end prostitutes live a very fine life, are in peak condition, drug free, disease free and highly selective of their clientele. Here in Australia they have an ABN (Australian Business Number) and report their business income to the tax office just like any other business.

Low end prostitutes on the other hand, are not so fortunate in terms of safety, health or income and neither are their honest 'punters' who must get their jollies illegally and at a riskier price to their health. Great fodder for the sickos though.

Sorry Delta I did recorrect the word to worst as I have removed ER and put a T instead. I am sure I have heard it somewhere hence my spelling it that way.:)
here is a link:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worser

About prostitution I think whether it is at a lower or higher end I feel it is still a kind of human abuse because at the end of the day no one wants to sell their bodies for others to abuse. In the same way no one wants a society when men or women are brought to think that prostitution is part of life the norms if you like which is wrong.
At the end of the day, one way or another prostitution will catch up on those who were never involved in it or agreed with it at the first place.
A possible scenario would be that one day someone is going to fall in love or about to marry someonbe and then found out they used prostitution as part of their daily life. Prostitution affects everyone directly or indirectly.
Gving prostitution the same status as a respectable job is risky and badly thought out.
What's next a diploma in it and why not? There is always people who will exploit the idea for money.
The sky's the limit.
I personally do find it offensive for the ordinary people who strive to make a living and the same time struggle to better a life for themeselves and their offsrpings but yet are rebuffed with ideas such as these that think of themselves as liberal and yet long term we all know that repercussions of this calibre are unforgiving for such idealism and liberalism.
what comes around goes around

[Emil Miller]

There is no such word as worser (sorry, but it really offends me)

What about 'wowser' ?
Anyway, I don't really see the need for prostitution in this day and age when women are able to prevent unwanted pregnancy and have a more relaxed attitude to sexual relations. In the past it wasn't easy but since the advent of the contraception pill it doesn't present anything like the problem it once did.

[Delta40]

What about 'wowser' ?
Anyway, I don't really see the need for prostitution in this day and age when women are able to prevent unwanted pregnancy and have a more relaxed attitude to sexual relations. In the past it wasn't easy but since the advent of the contraception pill it doesn't present anything like the problem it once did.

Are you serious? As long as men are willing to hand over cash for this service, there will be a lucrative market for it.

[cacian]

Are you serious? As long as men are willing to hand over cash for this service, there will be a lucrative market for it.

well of course they will they know it is there so why not?

[Emil Miller]

Are you serious? As long as men are willing to hand over cash for this service, there will be a lucrative market for it.

If men are silly enough to pay for something that is available for free, there will obviously be a market for it but, in my experience, the pill made a definite difference to women's attitude to sexual relationships.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Haha yes that's a nicer way to put it.
I think prostitution is bad enough without having to persecute the poeple who sadly involved in it.
Prostitution is one of the worst form of human abuse and so it is already punishing to those who make it so for others to use and abuse.
Those who seek it in my eyes are worst. A prostitute provides a service for some who I feel are lower then prostitution itself.
why isn't there an equally degrading name for them. A punter is almost giving it and getting away with it.
Sorry I do not mean to distract from the thread.

http://iamnotgoingtotellyouhowtoact.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/high_horse.jpg

What's it look like from up there?



Anyway, I don't really see the need for prostitution in this day and age when women are able to prevent unwanted pregnancy and have a more relaxed attitude to sexual relations. In the past it wasn't easy but since the advent of the contraception pill it doesn't present anything like the problem it once did.

Yeah. I know me and my other ugly friends are just getting laid all the time. Chicks are just throwing themselves at us.

And, just to be clear, I've never used a prostitute. I don't judge people who do, though, nor do I judge the prostitute. Frankly, I've never seen it as a big deal.

[Darcy88]

Are you serious? As long as men are willing to hand over cash for this service, there will be a lucrative market for it.

Agreed. Ridding the world of prostitution is about as likely as ridding the night sky of its stars. As long as there are men in this world with money there will be prostitution. Its natural. What we should focus on is protecting the women who provide this service, guaranteeing as best we can their health and their safety.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Agreed. Ridding the world of prostitution is about as likely as ridding the night sky of its stars. As long as there are men in this world with money there will be prostitution. Its natural. What we should focus on is protecting the women who provide this service, guaranteeing as best we can their health and their safety.

Yep. Which is why it should be legalized. If it's legal, it can be regulated and controlled.

I've never really seen it as a degrading profession.

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE=Mutatis-Mutandis;1153853] Yeah. I know me and my other ugly friends are just getting laid all the time. Chicks are just throwing themselves at us. [QUOTE]

Whether a man is ugly or not isn't the point, if he waits for women to throw themselves at him, he will probably have a long wait.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

All I'm saying is that for a lot of guys, it is much, much easier just to pay for it. It seemed like you're suggesting going out and hooking up with a woman is no big deal, something real easy to do. Well, maybe for some guys, but not everyone. And looks sometimes don't even play into it. Some guys are shy, or a bit socially awkward, especially in bars and clubs. If it was that easy, I doubt business for prostitutes would be as good as it is.

[Darcy88]

..........

[tonywalt]

I am considered mega-good-looking, and I have the ability to charm almost any woman.....but when I am actually in a bar (which is a rare event) I usually stutter and stammer and make a fool of myself. There are guys who are objectively nowhere near as good looking as me who are way better with the ladies. I don't mind it though. The girls who reject me for stuttering and stammering simply are not the kind of girls I would want to be with. The stuttering and stammering is almost a kind of test. If a girl can handle being in public with one as awkward as me then I know I have found someone very special, someone I can love and be with.

It's no great secret that that it's 90% charm and social dynamics. And that's a pretty good criteria you have for filtering potential partners-you will know it when you know it.

[PoeticPassions]

Edit:

I must rant on looks and how ridiculously obsessed our society is with looks. Most of the women I have loved in my life have been girl next door types. Beautiful but nothing like the super-model ideal we see on television. The super-model ideal, the skinny, vapid, sick-looking super-model ideal is one of the most powerful dark forces currently menacing society. And the truly absurd thing is that it is not at all attractive or natural. I like a woman with a full figure. I could love and be with a woman who is skinny, but I know I'd constantly be trying to fatten her up. Whenever I do have a girlfriend I find myself acting like a father and encouraging my partner to eat, eat, eat. I know obesity is a huge problem too, and I am turned off somewhat by obesity in women, but I would prefer my partner to be 10 or 15 pounds overweight than vapid and sickly and striving to fulfill the super-model ideal. Its all about health and in my opinion health is best presented in a full figure, not a super-skinny one. I really sympathize with women. They have thrust upon them from one end the supermodel ideal and then from the other they have junk food manufacturers trying to get them to eat fattening unhealthy foods. Its sad, its a problem and I pray it somehow alleviates.

Thanks for this side rant, Darcy. I agree with you. I feel bad for all of the little girls growing up in this world... but my perceptions growing up were also really shaped by the media, and I constantly struggle with my body image, food, etc.

I think I look really healthy and I exercise and eat relatively well, but I still feel pretty self-conscious. Anyway, good post.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I, too, am not into the super-model look. Sure, they're beautiful and a pleasure to look at, but I just don't think I'd be interested in a relationship with one (going into extreme hypotheticals, here). I too like the girl next door look much more. One of my favorite actresses, in terms of looks, right now is Emma Stone. I think she's beautiful, but not I the classical sense at all. She's unusual looking in some ways, and she even has a slight lisp, but that just makes her sexier to me. I like the flaws in women, and I hate when they want to get plastic surgery. A buddy of mine's girlfriend, who's quite cool and pretty, wants to get a nose-job because there's a slight bump on the ridge of her nose. I think the bump looks great. Why'd you want to change that? I told her so, but she's convinced herself it has to go.

It's a shame how girls are programmed to think about their bodies. I saw first hand the attitudes, the stress, the anal-retentiveness on the minorest of details, the teasing, the cruelty, the low self-esteem young girls deal with in my short time teaching high school. Some do manage to put themselves above all that and just be themselves and not worry about conforming to the extremes, but most don't, unfortunately.

[Darcy88]

Thanks for this side rant, Darcy. I agree with you. I feel bad for all of the little girls growing up in this world... but my perceptions growing up were also really shaped by the media, and I constantly struggle with my body image, food, etc.

I think I look really healthy and I exercise and eat relatively well, but I still feel pretty self-conscious. Anyway, good post.

I'm glad you and others seem to have enjoyed that rant. It angers me to no end. When I am a father I will probably have to meditate hours a day and take pharmaceutical medications in order to cope with the harsh bombardment women in my and all cultures receive when it comes to other people telling them how they need to look.

[Babyguile]

There was talk in the media where some industry big-shots were proposing the legalisation of prostitution in London for the duration of the Olympic Games. The main line of argument being that it could drastically reduce the number of young girls and boys being trafficked into the country, and also it would mean the business could be regulated which could alleviate most of the health issues surrouding the practice.

I'm not against prostitution on any moral grounds and I think anyone who judges another person in an aloof, pseudo-superior manner needs a good smack in the mouth. But legalising it means legitimizing it, and with all the talk in this thread about bad influences on young girls, I'm not sure to agree with this proposal is a wise move. Also the man who was making these proposals was eventually laughed out of the country.

[Delta40]

Mary Ann always won the most preferred wife vote over Ginger in Gilligans Island

[Emil Miller]

It's no great secret that that it's 90% charm and social dynamics. And that's a pretty good criteria you have for filtering potential partners-you will know it when you know it.

Charm is a quality that's difficult to quantify but social interaction is definitely the heart of the matter.

[Scheherazade]

Whether a man is ugly or not isn't the point, if he waits for women to throw themselves at him, he will probably have a long wait.
All I'm saying is that for a lot of guys, it is much, much easier just to pay for it. It seemed like you're suggesting going out and hooking up with a woman is no big deal, something real easy to do. Maybe Emil has a different kind of clubbing in his mind:

http://assets1.wordansassets.com/wvc-1329191550/wordansfiles/images/2012/2/13/125070/125070_340.jpg

[Darcy88]

Maybe Emil has a different kind of clubbing in his mind:

http://assets1.wordansassets.com/wvc-1329191550/wordansfiles/images/2012/2/13/125070/125070_340.jpg

Hahahaha.

[Emil Miller]

Maybe Emil has a different kind of clubbing in his mind:



A little psychology will afford a much better result than brute force. :yesnod:

[tonywalt]

Mary Ann always won the most preferred wife vote over Ginger in Gilligans Island

I always loved Mary Ann, Ginger would have been a nightmare. My first, umm, awareness of females was Mary Ann in re runs. (Also, I dream of Jeanie and Bewitched -both:drool5:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Mary Ann always won the most preferred wife vote over Ginger in Gilligans Island

Well, of course. Mary Ann was smoking hot and, personality wise, was so much cooler than Ginger, who would've been so much maintenance.

[tonywalt]

Hhmm, I have just noticed that no guys on this thread are into Supermodels (no wonder why the rock stars, athletes, men of a certain means, and Leonardo Dicaprio have the corner on that market).

Poor lonely Gisele, Cindy, Mila Jivovitch......

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Don't get me wrong, I'd hit it in a second (probably how lond it'd take, too), but I find women like Emma Stone turn me on more.

[Drkshadow03]

If men are silly enough to pay for something that is available for free, there will obviously be a market for it but,

Like bottled water.

[Darcy88]

Like bottled water.

Its about availability and demand. Emil is criticizing basic capitalistic principles and I find this interesting. As long as there is demand there will be someone there to fulfill the demand.

Sex will always be one of the greatest commodities on the market. And you have to pay for it no matter what. An educated person will look down on an uneducated person, an attractive person will look down on an unattractive person. If you have a big truck or a shiny car or if you are highly sophisticated or physically attractive you will thus have in your possession the goods needed to exchange on the sexual market for your desired product - sex. It sounds harsh and brutal and ugly to think in such terms but its true. If I had a dime for every time I've been rejected for lacking one of if not all of the above assets I would have enough wealth I could build a mound of gold taller and greater than Everest.

[Delta40]

If I had a dime for every time I've been rejected for lacking one of if not all of the above assets I would have enough wealth I could build a mound of gold taller and greater than Everest.

And when you reach the summit you could find eternal everest...:angel:

[Revolte]

Oh you guys are just conning yourselves now! you say you like a nice body but really you'll take the girl who can cook a dish that agrees with your picky digestive system and will keep house for you and what you spawn while you wave it round with other women. Us nice girls always lose out!

sorry, couldn't resist it :angel:

No way! I love to cook, it's almost offensive if someone cooks for me if they aren't passionate about it. And they better ask me to make them something someday.

As for cleaning, fire can do a lot :santasmil

[Delta40]

No way! I love to cook, it's almost offensive if someone cooks for me if they aren't passionate about it. And they better ask me to make them something someday.

Sorry but the minority doesn't get a voice :ciappa:

[Drkshadow03]

Its about availability and demand. Emil is criticizing basic capitalistic principles and I find this interesting. As long as there is demand there will be someone there to fulfill the demand.

Sex will always be one of the greatest commodities on the market. And you have to pay for it no matter what. An educated person will look down on an uneducated person, an attractive person will look down on an unattractive person. If you have a big truck or a shiny car or if you are highly sophisticated or physically attractive you will thus have in your possession the goods needed to exchange on the sexual market for your desired product - sex. It sounds harsh and brutal and ugly to think in such terms but its true. If I had a dime for every time I've been rejected for lacking one of if not all of the above assets I would have enough wealth I could build a mound of gold taller and greater than Everest.

Well, didn't you already tell us you're mega-good-looking and possess the ability to charm almost any woman? Confidence I imagine is an equally important commodity.

[Darcy88]

............

[Helga]

Hhmm, I have just noticed that no guys on this thread are into Supermodels

I like Supermodels, just not the female kind.

[Darcy88]

...........

[Helga]

I completely agree darcy, I was just pointing out that there are male models that catch a lady's eye.

I can only speak for myself but I have never liked this model look and I have watched girls around me obsess on the way they look. Just today I was discussing Botox with a friend and she wants it before her face starts to show and I just find that crazy.

I have never used make up more than a mascara because of this friend. She wouldn't let me see her face in the morning when we were younger cause she thought she looked so bad. I always said that with me what you see is what you get and I wanted my boyfriend to see the same face in the morning as he did the night before.

That being said, I can admit that I don't like everything about me but that does not mean I will go out and have it fixed.

The girl next door look I hear about here interest me, wonder where I fit in. Probably the 'girl three blocks down the street look'

[shug]

Why no "legs" option in the poll?

[Darcy88]

..........

[Revolte]

Sorry but the minority doesn't get a voice :ciappa:

No, but the minority gets this :ladysman:

so heh! :ciappa:

[cacian]

Why no "legs" option in the poll?

good point haha.

Ok here is athought.
you meet someone over the internet you chat over the phone for days on ends and you exchange 'photos of your youth' pretending to be that same look and attractiveness.
you carry on chatting you get on really really well and you might even fall in love and one day you decide and have to meet.
the day arrives you show up and low and behold shock to the system one of you is not as attractive as the photo showed.
a) do you fall out of love?
b) you stick with it because looks are not important
c) you are heat broken and you do not know what to do.

please select which applies or add something else.

[Drkshadow03]

Ok here is athought.
you meet someone over the internet you chat over the phones for days on end and you exchange 'photos of your youth' pretending to be that same look and attractiveness.
you carry on chatting you get on really really well and you might even fall in love and one day you decide and have to meet.
the day arrives you show up and low and behold shock to the system one of you is not as attractive as the photo showed.
a) do you fall out of love?
b) you stick with it because looks are not important
c) you are heat broken and you do not know what to do.

please select which applies or add something else.

If you think you're in love with someone over the internet and then you find they're unattractive when you finally meet to the point where it bothers you and you're "heartbroken" then you were never really in love to begin with.

Not to mention I would think true love takes time to develop.

[Darcy88]

If you think you're in love with someone over the internet and then you find they're unattractive when you finally meet to the point where it bothers you and you're "heartbroken" then you were never really in love to begin with.

Exactly. I think if you truly love someone what you are in fact loving is not their body but their mind, their soul. They could lose limbs and be scarred all over and though it would pain you and cause endless awful grief, if you do in fact truly love them, you will stick by their side. That's the point of marriage. The point is the vow before God. If you take that vow you better damn mean it. That is my opinion, at least. Annoyingly its an opinion propagated by many but followed by few.

[cacian]

Exactly. I think if you truly love someone what you are in fact loving is not their body but their mind, their soul. They could lose limbs and be scarred all over and though it would pain you and cause endless awful grief, if you do in fact truly love them, you will stick by their side. That's the point of marriage. The point is the vow before God. If you take that vow you better damn mean it. That is my opinion, at least. Annoyingly its an opinion propagated by many but followed by few.

so what you are saying is that it is not possible to have true feelings via the internet. If you cannot see the person then everytime an illusion and a disapointing one may be or not.
It is possible to love and be still in love with someibe even after they have suddenly lost a limb that is because both have been together and got to know each other and so love is stronger then looks in this instance.

About the vow before God it sounds rather heavy to me because whilst one takes the vow one does not get a vow back from God and so how do I know that the vow I took was an acceptable one or not.
I am the ype of person whon needs a kind of proof/reassurance that what I have vowed has been accepted and until then I have no guarantee. so I would much rather take no vows at all but instead take an easier route and that is to go with the flow and see what happens. No promises no hearbreaks and no tears.
I could take the vow for me for my partner but again a divorce is always round the corner and so breaking it is not going to look very good on me or on others.
Having considered both sides I think muc ratherf stick with I will go with the flow and see what happens.
That is life and that is how I see it.
That is all.

[Helga]

Ok here is athought.
you meet someone over the internet you chat over the phone for days on ends and you exchange 'photos of your youth' pretending to be that same look and attractiveness.
you carry on chatting you get on really really well and you might even fall in love and one day you decide and have to meet.
the day arrives you show up and low and behold shock to the system one of you is not as attractive as the photo showed.
a) do you fall out of love?
b) you stick with it because looks are not important
c) you are heat broken and you do not know what to do.

please select which applies or add something else.


humm, I don't really believe in love over the internet but I guess I would be a little bit mad because I have been lied to. Not that looks are that important just that the other person felt like they had to deceive me to keep me interested.

I have never been in love so I don't know how to describe my actions if I was.

[cacian]

humm, I don't really believe in love over the internet but I guess I would be a little bit mad because I have been lied to. Not that looks are that important just that the other person felt like they had to deceive me to keep me interested.

I have never been in love so I don't know how to describe my actions if I was.

you have never been in love?
how do you know?

[Helga]

you have never been in love?
how do you know?

Now that is a hard question.... I have been in three relationships, when they ended I have never been heartbroken. I was sad when my second boyfriend broke up with me but just for a few minuets. I was never in love with my ex but I lived with him for 5 years. I cared about him and I told myself that he is a good guy but he annoyed me most of the time.

I at least hope that love is more than what I have felt in my past relationships.

[Delta40]

I need a kind of proof that what I have vowed has been accepted and until then I have no guarantee so I would much rather take no vows at all but instead take an easier route and that is to go with the flow and see what happens. No promises no hearbreaks and no tears.

Having considered both side I think I will stick to I will go with the flow and see what happens that is life.
that is all.

The easier route of go with the flow - no promises, no heartbreak, no tears? I don't think so Cacian. Going with the flow, being with someone, trusting them completely till they turn around and tell you it's over and then walk out the door is not an easy route to me (unless they mean zilch to you)

Alot of people don't agree with the go with flow concept because they feel it's the try before you buy bull which to them is devaluing because if it doesn't work, they're left with absolutely nothing but a broken heart and tears and so they place a greater worth upon themselves. A vow.

I personally don't subscribe to de-facto relationships myself. I value my own space and privacy. That doesn't mean I'm unavailable but it does mean I won't be moving in with anyone to go with the flow and see what happens and if I do everything that a committed wife would (fingers crossed) he might consider me good enough to marry. I've had my share and I deserve better than that, especially after building my own life from scratch.

If two people love each other from their own respective places and wish to join in a union at some point, then tell me, why not make that comittment?

[stlukesguild]

Nothing wrong with supermodels. I just like to harp on the traditional issue of supermodels presenting to women unrealistic ideas about body image. It messes with women's self esteem and habits. The airbrushed toothpick has been presented as the feminine physical ideal for too long now. There are plenty of healthy looking supermodels but there is still a large percentage of them who appear inhumanly and unhealthily skinny.

What is interesting is that women's unrealistic ideal body image is based largely upon images from women's magazines that promote a body type that is quite removed from the actual ideal body according to men:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8028/7559781498_ab75229538_m.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8028/7559781498_ab75229538_b.jpg)

According to a poll of men and women, the girl on the left matches women's ideal of the female body. The girl in the middle matches men's ideal of the female body, and the girl on the right matches the national average.

It is interesting, although perhaps not surprising, that the male ideal is quite a bit "curvier" than what women imagine as being their ideal. Glancing at the more curvaceous women in men's magazines one cannot help wonder what is the thinking behind the toothpick-thin fashion models in women's magazines. It has been repeatedly pointed out that the large percentage of homosexual males involved in the fashion industry has led to a demand for a boyish as opposed to a womanly figure... but I suspect that only goes so far. Perhaps it is simply imagined that clothes hang better on a rail-thin body.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

While I think the middle woman is the best looking, I think the woman on the right is way more attractive than the woman on the left. The curves of the female body are what makes it beautiful. As Elaine from Seinfeld says, when discussing the difference between a female and male body:

"The female body is a work of art. The male body is utilitarian. It's for gettin' around. It's like a Jeep."

When women do the whole stick-thin look, they don't look like women so much as gangly boys. It counteracts what makes a woman beautiful.

[Darcy88]

The one on the right is what I like, maybe a tiny bit skinnier but only a tiny bit. It is close to Botticelli's Venus. Our instincts regard women as baby machines and pregnancy requires a lot of calories and a woman who has no fat is going to appear before our instinctual judgement as one who is not ideally suited for child bearing.

In the end it really does not matter. You love a person not for their body. The obsession with one's partner's body is the result not of love but of lust. If you love someone then the average about them becomes exceptional in a positive, highly positive way. If you fall in love with someone who has an objectively amazing body then that is simply good luck, an added bonus, but looks cannot be the foundation nor even a major component of one's love for another person. Its like the deeper the relationship progresses the less it becomes about looks, about superficials. Like how many women are absolutely bent on never letting you see them once they get out of the shower or in the early morning because they think themselves hideous at these times. After a while they don't care. Time together proves the feelings are there for real. Once the heart is involved, once its about the personality and the habits and the passions of the other then looks are nothing. Its like buying a car. It wears down over time, breaks down, spews emissions and steam and suffers leaks. It was perfect when you bought it but you don't go and exchange it right away when these things happen. You fix it, you continue to drive it.

Unless you're rich. Then you can afford a new mercedes each year in addition to a harem abundantly stocked with 20 year old beauties from all continents.

Edit: Actually it does matter more than I made it out to in that paragraph. Its about health. If one's partner is unhealthy then this lack of health will like a thorn in the side of the relationship. The standard should be slightly better than the average. Perfection is no goal to strive for. Slightly in better shape than the average, that is what I would want my partner to be.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Its about health. If one's partner is unhealthy then this lack of health will like a thorn in the side of the relationship.

Now that is a bummer.

[qimissung]

Nothing wrong with supermodels. I just like to harp on the traditional issue of supermodels presenting to women unrealistic ideas about body image. It messes with women's self esteem and habits. The airbrushed toothpick has been presented as the feminine physical ideal for too long now. There are plenty of healthy looking supermodels but there is still a large percentage of them who appear inhumanly and unhealthily skinny.

I agree....

It is sad, isn't it? I kind of liked those Dove soap ads where they showed "real women," and not models. I remember reading an editorial that disparaged those ads-it was written by a woman, btw-and she claimed that we all understood the artifice behind most advertising and that showing real women in ads simply wasn't necessary.

I beg to differ. I think models and advertising are hugely influential. And it's too bad. Here's a news clip about it:




http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2503529n

[Darcy88]

Now that is a bummer.

I was speaking specifically of obesity and anorexia. I said body type does not matter but if one's partner is too small or large to a very unhealthy degree then this will cause problems. In other situations ill health is not that big a deal. Ill health is a part of life and people understand this. My ADHD does make relationships really hard, but it only gets the ball of disaster rolling and my personality takes care of the rest, of killing the relationship, like infantry finishing off an enemy already crushed by a fatal cavalry strike.

[Revolte]

good point haha.

Ok here is athought.
you meet someone over the internet you chat over the phone for days on ends and you exchange 'photos of your youth' pretending to be that same look and attractiveness.
you carry on chatting you get on really really well and you might even fall in love and one day you decide and have to meet.
the day arrives you show up and low and behold shock to the system one of you is not as attractive as the photo showed.
a) do you fall out of love?
b) you stick with it because looks are not important
c) you are heat broken and you do not know what to do.

please select which applies or add something else.

Most of the people that I have known I've met through the internet, or when I played a show and was super wasted. Most of the time photographs don't show people as attractive as they really are. And it's good to remember that a person looks fairly different over the course of a few days.

But, the last person I met was more attractive in photos, and she was one of the best girlfriends I've ever had. And besides, she was still pretty.

I'm not sure if you would fall out of love though, being in love is a bit extreme so I don't know if visual difference (and it likely wouldn't be a huge difference) would be enough to stop the way you feel.

If someone is heart broken over a photo then they probably didn't care too much about the person anyhow. They would have just been really horny. That seems like a waste of an adventure and experience, doesn't it? Don't get me wrong, I get it, I've had it happen. But I dunno, I can't rap my ahead around this one.


I just want to add, you can absolutely fall in love with someone over the internet. Nearly three years ago I started falling for a girl over the internet, never having met her. I've only hung out with her twice, one was a seemingly impossible random happening that lead us to being in the same place at the same time, which is strange considering we both lived in different towns and neither of us lived in that one.

A few months ago, I thought I finally got over her. As of the last few nights, I found out I'm wrong. Nothing can be done about it, but that's okay. The point is, it can and does happen.

[cacian]

Now that is a hard question.... I have been in three relationships, when they ended I have never been heartbroken. I was sad when my second boyfriend broke up with me but just for a few minuets. I was never in love with my ex but I lived with him for 5 years. I cared about him and I told myself that he is a good guy but he annoyed me most of the time.

I at least hope that love is more than what I have felt in my past relationships.

Hi Helga may I ask how you are?

[Babyguile]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]What is interesting is that women's unrealistic ideal body image is based largely upon images from women's magazines that promote a body type that is quite removed from the actual ideal body according to men:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8028/7559781498_ab75229538_m.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8028/7559781498_ab75229538_b.jpg)

According to a poll of men and women, the girl on the left matches women's ideal of the female body. The girl in the middle matches men's ideal of the female body, and the girl on the right matches the national average.


I understand your puzzlement over those images and how they don't stack up, but the motive behind showing women images of this body ideal on the left has nothing at all to do with pandering to men, or of women trying to fulfill men's expectations. That is a very naiive view that a lot of men take. They seem to assume that this is what all the fuss about body image is about. Quite wrong.


[COLOR="DarkRed"]Glancing at the more curvaceous women in men's magazines one cannot help wonder what is the thinking behind the toothpick-thin fashion models in women's magazines. It has been repeatedly pointed out that the large percentage of homosexual males involved in the fashion industry has led to a demand for a boyish as opposed to a womanly figure... but I suspect that only goes so far. Perhaps it is simply imagined that clothes hang better on a rail-thin body.

Firstly there is the multi-billion dollar fashion, cosmetic, dietary and surgery industries which literally profit off of making women feel unhappy about their bodies. By bombarding women with images of an unobtainable ideal, you are creating a very effective marketing strategy for the continued growth of these multi-national industries. Women don't have very many mass media outlets, so targeting women's magazines is very effective: show pictures of skinny runway models on one page (or have a double spread feature on it), then on the opposite page have a large, colourful advert for a beauty product. Genius.

The woman on the left exists for commercial, monetary gain and profit. In Betty Friedan's day women's progress was impeded by the myth of domesticity, now it is being impeded by the myth of beauty. It's ironic that in the West, it was money that ultimately liberated women from the home: when women could be self-dependant. Now that capitalist virtue is being turned against them.

I recommend this book:

http://s8.postimage.org/grhysr16p/the_beauty_myth.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/grhysr16p/)

The Beauty Myth: How Images of Beauty are Used Against Women by Naomi Wolf.

[JuniperWoolf]

I knew a prostitute who just operated out of her apartment in Edmonton (which was also my building; not too trashy a place, no heroine addicts or grafitti, pretty normal). She lived across the hall and it was hard not to notice her lifestyle, so I made friends with her because I was curious. She got to the point where she could rely solely on eight men who were repeat clientele. The way she did it was safe and kind of pleasant, they made appointments and everything and had developed an emotional attachment to her. Apparently they spent much of their time talking to her and holding her, they sought closeness and companionship from her as well as sex. Besides the prostitution she was pretty normal, kinda an airhead, but not an addict and she didn't have a "pimp" (aka slave owner). So, the people who seek prostitutes aren't necessarily disgusting inhuman freaks who think of women as sperm recepticals, and prostitutes don't have to be broken, ashamed, or victims.

Some of the bartenders I've worked with have prostituted themselves too, they get to know the guys through their job. I've bartended a lot, it's kind of fun and great money, and over the years I've known of about a dozen girls who have made some money on the side. I bet most women who have recieved money for sex have been bartenders or waitresses, most of the guys who come in and sit at the bar day after day in the middle of the day when it's slow are seeking female companionship anyway, and I do mean "companion." They like to talk, we get to know them very well, although there's an element of sexual admiration there too. Acutally bartending is weird, I've thought this before but it's very comparable to prostitution. It's sort of like prostitution without the sex, talk-prostitution. You dress nice and move around and pour drinks and have witty conversation with people who sit on the other side of a long table watching you do said deeds and returning your witty conversation, deriving happiness from it and give you money for it.


An attractive man has little need of whore houses but, even in those cases where he did, there is no replacement for the female who captures his heart.

An attractive married man does if all the odds are wrong and somehow marriage doesn't turn out to be everything it was cracked up to be. Also I think that if prostitution were legal and it was safe, there'd be a market for male-servicing-female prostitutes. Housewives get bored, and many are starving for a tumble with a young, attractive man.

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/th_twilight091123_560.jpg (http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/?action=view&current=twilight091123_560.jpg)

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/th_desperate-housewives.jpg (http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/?action=view&current=desperate-housewives.jpg)


My job is kind of a women dominated place but the electrical system is being upgraded (or something) and I really enjoy all those men climbing stairs, working hard.... I always seem to forget something these days and need to walk passed them again and again, wonder why.

Haha, they're doing roofing in phase six in town right now. In torn jeans. Topless. :drool5:


I've always wondered, do women examine a man's groin area to try and discern his endowment.

Pointless here, everyone wears jeans and they get that sort of bump. Anyway I don't like big men, they hurt. Small men are comical and always act insecure (possibly because I think they're comical). Medium is best.


Anyway, I don't really see the need for prostitution in this day and age when women are able to prevent unwanted pregnancy and have a more relaxed attitude to sexual relations. In the past it wasn't easy but since the advent of the contraception pill it doesn't present anything like the problem it once did.

What about individuals with Down’s Syndrome or other incredibly debilitating physical or cognitive conditions? Should they wait for something that might never happen and then die without ever having touched a member of the opposite sex? They want to, they have that human urge just like everyone else. Actually there are lobbyist groups in favor of the legalization of prostitution with that cause as their sole intent.


But legalising it means legitimizing it, and with all the talk in this thread about bad influences on young girls, I'm not sure to agree with this proposal is a wise move.

The message an action or inaction conveys comes secondary to safety, always. That’s the same problem I have with the classic issue of the feminist movement re. cheerleading, there’s a rant of mine around here somewhere. If people are being hurt (and they are, by prostitution being illegal) then that should be the main focus. If it looks bad, or if it might influence people’s way of thinking, I say that’s worth the risk and I have more faith in the human race than to buy into it anyway. The “bad influence” doesn’t scare me. Look at this thread, and look at daily life. Is there really anyone who likes that whole skinny-as-sticks supermodel look, really? People aren’t sheep, they can’t be run by influence, and also natural inborn attraction can’t be overridden by influence. Men lust for roundness and squishiness in women, that’s their primal brain telling them “she’s healthy.” Were prostitution to be legalized we can’t tell how public perception of women would change, but who’s to say the change wouldn’t be positive? If “whores” weren’t an illegal social impurity to be scorned or even imprisoned? Our perception of the profession in general would change if they could be legitimate businesspeople who run their own lives, we can't predict the changes that legalizing prostitution would have on society but I'd put a lot of money on them being positive.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I understand your puzzlement over those images and how they don't stack up, but the motive behind showing women images of this body ideal on the left has nothing at all to do with pandering to men, or of women trying to fulfill men's expectations. That is a very naiive view that a lot of men take. They seem to assume that this is what all the fuss about body image is about. Quite wrong.

He never said any if that, Dave. Pointing out what men like doesn't equal an argument saying that that is all that matters.

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE=stlukesguild;1154246
According to a poll of men and women, the girl on the left matches women's ideal of the female body. The girl in the middle matches men's ideal of the female body, and the girl on the right matches the national average.

[/QUOTE]

Isn't there too much attention given by the media to the stick insect look ?
The above equation doesn't stack up because if women are being overwhelmingly pressured into looking very thin, why is the national average obviously overweight?:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Isn't there too much attention given by the media to the stick insect look ?
The above equation doesn't stack up because if women are being overwhelmingly pressured into looking very thin, why is the national average obviously overweight?:

Well, we are talking about an average, so I think the women who're overweight will outweigh (pun intended) those who're underweight. After all, one can only weigh so little, while one can be as fat as one can set their mind to. After all, the average weight between a 100 pound woman and 400 pound woman is 250 pounds, which is definitely overweight.

America seems to be a country of extremes with a lot of things, weight definitely included. While there are definitely more women overweight, a lot go the other route and becomes too skinny. Some women even go both routes within their lifetime. When I was in France and London, the consistency of body weight, for men and women, was much more consistent. I was actually pretty blown away by the lack of fat people. I can't imagine what people who come to America must think. We definitely live up to being the fattest nation in the world.

[JuniperWoolf]

Isn't there too much attention given by the media to the stick insect look ?
The above equation doesn't stack up because if women are being overwhelmingly pressured into looking very thin, why is the national average obviously overweight?:

Well yeah, that's the problem being discussed here. They idolize a shape that they aren't capable of attaining, and this causes psychological damage and health issues and social problems and blah blah blah.

And is the national average girl "obviously overweight?" She doesn't look so to me, she looks healthy. Some people's bodies are naturally like on the right girl, twig arms, and they're perfectly healthy that way, stay twigs no matter how much they eat (my friend Kim is one). It seems obviously pretty rare though. I'd say most people's bodies naturally tend towards on the left girl's, and in order to force their shape into a Right Girl they'd have to use extreme, unhealthy methods. So, they're coveting something that they're physically incapable of having. Left Girls sometimes try to force their bodies into Right Girl shapes and make themselves sick, or they call themselves failures and hate themselves.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I've always thought that the weight to be classified as obese was a bit low--but, then again, I'm in America, so I'm really used to seeing fat people. I tried finding what the weight to be considered obese is, but couldn't--all I find was BMI equations, and it's too early to do math.

[JuniperWoolf]

^I thought it was stupid too. Apparently:

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/th_bmi-chart.gif (http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/?action=view&current=bmi-chart.gif)

My mom's 5'1, and she's 120 lbs. According to this, she's just missed being considered obese. The very idea is insane, look at her legs (the one with the white shirt):

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/th_165391_494046401991_820681_n.jpg (http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/?action=view&current=165391_494046401991_820681_n.jpg)

Although her rack makes up a lot of her weight. Come to think of it, the BMI chart doesn't account for stuff like that, does it? What if someone has a big rack, or a particularly big head, they'd think they're "obese." And that's what they give people to judge themelves. Damn unreliable, I call it.

[Babyguile]

He never said any if that, Dave. Pointing out what men like doesn't equal an argument saying that that is all that matters.

We're trying to discern why the ideal presented to women does not match the ideal according to men. When StLukes was posting his thoughts about this I thought he was assuming that the ideal given to women should logically and necessarily match the male ideal of women. I've explained that these images do not necessarily function to meet that end. And even if he never meant to say what I thought he did, I think what I went on to say deserves a read-over anyway.

[PoeticPassions]

^I thought it was stupid too. Apparently:

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/th_bmi-chart.gif (http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/?action=view&current=bmi-chart.gif)

My mom's 5'1, and she's 120 lbs. According to this, she's just missed being considered obese. The very idea is insane, look at her legs (the one with the white shirt):

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/th_165391_494046401991_820681_n.jpg (http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/cellar_door17/?action=view&current=165391_494046401991_820681_n.jpg)

Although her rack makes up a lot of her weight. Come to think of it, the BMI chart doesn't account for stuff like that, does it? What if someone has a big rack, or a particularly big head, they'd think they're "obese." And that's what they give people to judge themelves. Damn unreliable, I call it.


I quite agree... this seems all too skwewed, which also skews statistics on the percentage of obese people in countries (Brazil is supposed to have a huge obesity problem, as is Greece). But the way they measure BMI is weight to height ratio, which is not always a very accurate way to measure a person's body fat percentage or what they may look like. I know that when I work out and lift weights, my overall body weight may sometimes even increase but I look more slender... you can also have really skinny people that are really unhealthy and way less fit than a 'fatter' person...

I know some girls that are skinny just cause they don't eat anything, but if you touch their arm or leg, it is almost like mush. There is no muscle mass at all. That isn't attractive... and that's just plain unhealthy. Whereas, I know some girls that are slightly overweight, but they could outrun most and hike for hours while the 'fitter looking' people lag behind... so I think these things are not taken into consideration either.

As well as the whole thing like breasts or butt adding to weight... or even larger bones. My build is not petite, and even if I ate nothing at all, I'd never be petite, just because I have a larger chest cavity, larger ankles, etc.

[Babyguile]

Also my name isn't Dave MM; it's Robine.

[JuniperWoolf]

Also my name isn't Dave MM; it's Robine.

No way, me too! (sans "e")

[Babyguile]

....

:)

[Emil Miller]

When I was in France and London, the consistency of body weight, for men and women, was much more consistent. I was actually pretty blown away by the lack of fat people. I can't imagine what people who come to America must think. We definitely live up to being the fattest nation in the world.

The number of large bellies on men and huge backsides on women in the UK is a national disgrace. I'm surprised you didn't notice them, I see them every day and it's not a pretty sight. The superabundance of cheap food in the USA probably accounts for the amount of fat that the population is carrying but food is often cited as being too expensive in the UK and it may be the cheaper fast food outlets that are the cause of the problem here.

[stlukesguild]

It is sad, isn't it? I kind of liked those Dove soap ads where they showed "real women," and not models. I remember reading an editorial that disparaged those ads-it was written by a woman, btw-and she claimed that we all understood the artifice behind most advertising and that showing real women in ads simply wasn't necessary.

And have you come across the controversy concerning this ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyCuITBD6dk

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/banned_ad_ebQ3Py9fhAuT9k4CeFKixI

Isn't there too much attention given by the media to the stick insect look ?
The above equation doesn't stack up because if women are being overwhelmingly pressured into looking very thin, why is the national average obviously overweight?:

The presumption of the girl on the right... and probably in the middle as well... as being "overweight" is based upon your own fantasies of the ideal waif-like Asian girl.

Is this girl overweight?


http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Marilyn-Monroe-Pictures-4.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Marilyn-Monroe-Pictures-4.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_marilyn-monroe5.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=marilyn-monroe5.jpg)

By many of today's standards of the ideal female body she would be considered "overweight"... and undoubtedly by the standards of today's fashion and film industries she would probably be considered "obese"... in spite of being THE sex symbol of an entire generation.

When I was in France and London, the consistency of body weight, for men and women, was much more consistent.

I doubt that your perception is reality. France and England are both wealthy, modern, Western nations and face the same problems with weight as the US: an overabundance of inexpensive food and a sedentary life-style related to the fact that much of our jobs no longer involve strenuous physical labor. Of course your perception of a more fit population may relate to the urban environments of London and Paris. I saw and experienced the same thing in New York City when I lived there. The reality of the city demands that people walk a lot more than they do elsewhere. Here in Cleveland there is no such thing as difficulty in finding parking; the city is so sprawled out and lacking in the sort of public transportation as New York has that you simply drive everywhere. In New York, parking can be $30 or $40 (or more) for a single day, while spaces in parking garages are leased monthly at prices equal to what you might pay for an apartment elsewhere. I walked everywhere and lost so much weight that my then-future wife thought I looked "emaciated" and was starving when I came back to visit.

My mom's 5'1, and she's 120 lbs. According to this, she's just missed being considered obese.

Look at the chart again. At 120 lbs she falls within the upper range of "normal"... just below "overweight" and well below "obese" (at 160 lbs at 5'1").

[Emil Miller]

THE[/I] sex symbol of an entire generation.

My acquaintance with waif-like Asian girls has not been fantasy, many of them they really are like that.

As for Marilyn Monroe, I was never attracted to her as it wasn't so much the sex factor as the Max Factor that made her. Too much peroxide and lipstick for my taste and if she's thought of as being overweight by today's standards it's because attitudes change. As someone who has often posted pictures of Rubens ideal women I'm sure you will agree that females who could understudy Moby Dick are not exactly desirable by today's standards. I always feel sorry for the horses when I see The Rape of the Sabines.

[Darcy88]

Isn't there too much attention given by the media to the stick insect look ?
The above equation doesn't stack up because if women are being overwhelmingly pressured into looking very thin, why is the national average obviously overweight?:

The presumption of the girl on the right... and probably in the middle as well... as being "overweight" is based upon your own fantasies of the ideal waif-like Asian girl.

Is this girl overweight?


http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Marilyn-Monroe-Pictures-4.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Marilyn-Monroe-Pictures-4.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_marilyn-monroe5.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=marilyn-monroe5.jpg)

By many of today's standards of the ideal female body she would be considered "overweight"... and undoubtedly by the standards of today's fashion and film industries she would probably be considered "obese"... in spite of being THE sex symbol of an entire generation.

That's what I'm talking about. FIGURE. She had it. Lots of women here have it, women of all races including my own, but they are considered overweight and its ridiculous. Some of the girls I've dated were afraid to eat. They ate like birds literally. They thought I was just being nice when I complimented them on their figures. They did not get it. It was sad. It is sad.

Knowing the different between being fat and having a nice figure is something a lot of women have problems with. And the reason they are afraid of having full figures is because its easy to go from that to full fledged obsesity. When I date a girl I instinctively get her to do two thing - eat lots and exercise lots. I eat often 10 000 calories a day and weigh what I am supposed to weigh, have very little body fat, because I move around so much be it by exercise or good old fashioned hard work in the shop.

[Revolte]

Haha, they're doing roofing in phase six in town right now. In torn jeans. Topless. :drool5:



You might need an operation before you could score one of those. :reddevil:

[Revolte]

That's what I'm talking about. FIGURE. She had it. Lots of women here have it, women of all races including my own, but they are considered overweight and its ridiculous. Some of the girls I've dated were afraid to eat. They ate like birds literally. They thought I was just being nice when I complimented them on their figures. They did not get it. It was sad. It is sad.



I've come across a lot of that too. To an extent I get it, I've had my battles with anorexia. But it's almost annoying to compliment a girl then get the response "Why, I'm fat..." and then trying to convince them that they look good and I don't see them as fat. It never works, of course.

Personally, I don't prefer scrawny girls. I like to cuddle, so I want something to hold. Also, the sex tends to be better with something other then bones. Right? I think so anyway.

I think the women's liberation movement got a little soft a little too soon. There is still a long way to go, in my opinion. Of course, sex sells and so do the outcomes of horrid model standards.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Also my name isn't Dave MM; it's Robine.
Well, I just remembered you used to go by "TheDave." "Robine" is sort of an odd name for a guy, isn't it?

The number of large bellies on men and huge backsides on women in the UK is a national disgrace. I'm surprised you didn't notice them, I see them every day and it's not a pretty sight. The superabundance of cheap food in the USA probably accounts for the amount of fat that the population is carrying but food is often cited as being too expensive in the UK and it may be the cheaper fast food outlets that are the cause of the problem here.

I didn't see them.

I don't see how what I saw was out of line with "reality," unless one is saying I'm lying. I was in Paris and London, and I barely saw any overweight people. There were a few, sure, but I don't think I ever saw a 400 or 500 pounder, which is a daily sight in the US. Now, I never travelled out of the major cities other than for a few tourist destinations--Shakespeare's home, Oxford, Versailles, etc.--so maybe it's different elsewhere, but I can't comment on what I didn't see.

Edit: After looking up statistics, it does look like the UK has its fair share of fat people. They have the second largest percentage in the world of obese people (still have a long way to overtake us, though). London must not be an accurate representation of the country as a whole. France, on the other hand, isn't that high on the list, so I don't think what I saw was too far off there. Maybe it's all the smoking.

Edit 2: Check this out. I found this article (North America has only 6 percent of the world's population, but 34 percent all the human biomass in the world that is due to obesity, the researchers said. In contrast, Asia has 61 percent of the world's population, but only 13 percent of the world's biomass due to obesity Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/18/weight-world-researchers-weigh-human-population/#ixzz20Xup70S9) about how much all humanity would weigh if they got on the scale. I found this quote particularly interesting:

North America has only 6 percent of the world's population, but 34 percent all the human biomass in the world that is due to obesity, the researchers said. In contrast, Asia has 61 percent of the world's population, but only 13 percent of the world's biomass due to*obesity

So, our fat people are way fatter than anyone else's. England may have a large percentage of obese people, but your 250 pounder is still put in the same category as our 400 pounder, which isn't rare.

[JuniperWoolf]

^Yours won't open on my computer so I found another one.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

Lowest is Japan at 3.2% which figures, they drill exercise and eat pretty healthy. I wonder why Mexico is second. Canada is quite a bit lower than America and the UK, which might be why I think this issue is being overblown by the American and UK members. I rarely see large people, there are dangerously overweight people in town and I could list them on my fingers.


As for Marilyn Monroe, I was never attracted to her as it wasn't so much the sex factor as the Max Factor that made her. Too much peroxide and lipstick for my taste and if she's thought of as being overweight by today's standards it's because attitudes change.

Please, Marilyn Monroe is still drooled over. Her body is mouthwatering, I've seen many more posters of her on walls in my life than I have Twiggy (or waif-like shapes). It's not the "max factor" either, there are much more extreme looks out there nowadays and yet, Monroe's image is still everywhere. So are women whose bodies resemble hers, soft thighs that touch, large breasts, hips that won't stab you, ect.


Look at the chart again. At 120 lbs she falls within the upper range of "normal"... just below "overweight" and well below "obese" (at 160 lbs at 5'1").

I was using "obese" as a synonym for "overweight," I didn't even notice that the chart differentiated between the two because I admit, I just looked at the chart to find people I know. For my mom to be anywhere near anything considered "overweight" is insane, look at her, it feels like I'm going to break her when I hug her. My friend Sean is in the upper yellow, which is funny because he's an athlete type. He's a bit solid and cubical, but he's a hockey player, they're all solid and cubical. Me at 5'5" and 126lbs, I'm south of the main "normal" line which is a pain in the ***. Like I don't know I'm small and weak, I'm healthy damn it! I wonder how many people have got complexes from this chart.

[Revolte]

When it comes to fat, it's possible to be obese and healthy. The danger is in storing fat where fat shouldn't be stored, like your heart.

In terms of attraction, it differs around the globe.

A little less focus on how fat people are might do a lot of good. It certainly doesn't help anyone to feel like they aren't good enough. There is more to health and weight then food intake, we shouldn't forget that just because it's the popular thing to do to attack fast food outlets.

And fast food really isn't as cheep as people like to think, it's addictive.

I'm vegetarian, so I rarely go to fast food joints. But I do on occasion and Burger King uses morning star patties, which are relevantly low in calories. And come in packages of four for less then getting the meal at BK costs.

I highly doubt people go to fast food places because it's cheaper. Let's say they eat three meals a day. That's at least 15-20 bucks a day just to eat. In the long run, actually buying the foods yourself and cooking them will be cheaper. They go because the food is loaded with addictive chemicals. Cheese alone is addictive. And because it's easy and available around every corner.

[Emil Miller]

I don't see how what I saw was out of line with "reality," unless one is saying I'm lying. I was in Paris and London, and I barely saw any overweight people. There were a few, sure, but I don't think I ever saw a 400 or 500 pounder, which is a daily sight in the US. Now, I never travelled out of the major cities other than for a few tourist destinations--Shakespeare's home, Oxford, Versailles, etc.--so maybe it's different elsewhere, but I can't comment on what I didn't see.

Edit: After looking up statistics, it does look like the UK has its fair share of fat people. They have the second largest percentage in the world of obese people (still have a long way to overtake us, though). London must not be an accurate representation of the country as a whole. France, on the other hand, isn't that high on the list, so I don't think what I saw was too far off there. Maybe it's all the smoking.

Edit 2: Check this out. I found this article (North America has only 6 percent of the world's population, but 34 percent all the human biomass in the world that is due to obesity, the researchers said. In contrast, Asia has 61 percent of the world's population, but only 13 percent of the world's biomass due to obesity Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/18/weight-world-researchers-weigh-human-population/#ixzz20Xup70S9) about how much all humanity would weigh if they got on the scale. I found this quote particularly interesting:

North America has only 6 percent of the world's population, but 34 percent all the human biomass in the world that is due to obesity, the researchers said. In contrast, Asia has 61 percent of the world's population, but only 13 percent of the world's biomass due to*obesity

So, our fat people are way fatter than anyone else's. England may have a large percentage of obese people, but your 250 pounder is still put in the same category as our 400 pounder, which isn't rare.

I don't rely on statistics but I think it is generally recognised that the USA has a inordinate number of fat people and that the numbers you have given are probably correct. It doesn't surprise me to find that the UK is second in the fattie league, nor that France is relatively fat free. The French have a food fetish which means that they are fussy about what they eat; preferring to eat choice dishes rather than what comes most readily to hand as it's taste rather than quantity that they go for in the culinary stakes. Of course there are the usual exceptions and I have seen the occasional porker in various parts of France but the women in particular look after their figure.

[JuniperWoolf]

I don't rely on statistics but I think it is generally recognised that the USA has a inordinate number of fat people and that the numbers you have given are probably correct.

Hahaha, statistics are unreliable and must be wrong unless they support your opinion? That's such an unbelievably prevalent cliché of any person who strongly and unyieldingly aligns with one side or the other of the political spectrum, and it's hilarious that you just came right out and said it, just like that.

[Emil Miller]

Hahaha, statistics are unreliable and must be wrong unless they support your opinion? That's such an unbelievably prevalent cliché of any person who strongly and unyieldingly aligns with one side or the other of the political spectrum, and it's hilarious that you just came right out and said it, just like that.

As is often the case, you have misread the post.

[JuniperWoolf]

As is often the case, you have misread the post.

"I don't usually trust statistics, but this one matches what I and the general public believe so they're probably correct," would that be an appropriate paraphrasal? Do you not see how it's comical that you just said that, being who you are? They might have just pulled random numbers out of their *** based on popular public opinion, for all you know. "Well America's fattest, so let's say they're 35% per capita obese, and everyone knows Britian is chunky, we'll make them 28%" What is it that makes these specific numbers "probably correct" to you, if you believe that statistical information is unreliable as a whole?

But hey, I'm not saying that America doesn't have more overweight people per capita: I do put stock in statistics, particularly if they're from a very reliable source such as those collected by the United Nations Statistical Commission. I can't even open Mutatis's link, so they might even be from the UNSC. I just thought it was funny to see a real-live demonstration of such a prevalent cliché.

[Babyguile]

The message an action or inaction conveys comes secondary to safety, always.

I agree, and I wasn't saying that I didn't agree with prostitution being legalized full stop, I was talking about the wisdom of legalising at the time of the Olympics (your arguments, incidently, are more convincing than the overweight pimp we had on our news programmes).


Is there really anyone who likes that whole skinny-as-sticks supermodel look, really? People aren’t sheep, they can’t be run by influence, and also natural inborn attraction can’t be overridden by influence. Men lust for roundness and squishiness in women, that’s their primal brain telling them “she’s healthy.”

If people aren't run by influence then account for the number of women in my country who are spending thousands of pounds during a time of severe economic austerity to mutiliate, and stick foreign objects into, their bodies. You are giving young people too much credit. Take a look at the world we live in. Free will is impeded at every turn.

The reason men are not influenced by these images is because these images are not meant to be sexually appealing. So of course, young men are indifferent towards them.

They are targeted towards young women, or rather groups of young women, and the message is that skinny equals success and wealth. Again it is nott sexual.


Were prostitution to be legalized we can’t tell how public perception of women would change, but who’s to say the change wouldn’t be positive? If “whores” weren’t an illegal social impurity to be scorned or even imprisoned? Our perception of the profession in general would change if they could be legitimate businesspeople who run their own lives, we can't predict the changes that legalizing prostitution would have on society but I'd put a lot of money on them being positive.

I agree!

[stlukesguild]

Please, Marilyn Monroe is still drooled over. Her body is mouthwatering, I've seen many more posters of her on walls in my life than I have Twiggy (or waif-like shapes). It's not the "max factor" either, there are much more extreme looks out there nowadays and yet, Monroe's image is still everywhere.

Yes... like any Hollywood actress of the era... or today... Marilyn could be seen all dolled up "max factor" style...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_arched.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=arched.jpg)

but she could also come off as stunningly elegant...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Marilyn1.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=Marilyn1.jpg)

... and she still looked damn good... even with the make-up down-played...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_confused.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=confused.jpg)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_60815707.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=60815707.jpg)

... or even in her day to day life...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_dance.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/?action=view&current=dance.jpg)

She died before I was born and if she were still alive she'd be old enough to have been my grandmothers, but she still looks hot in "Some Like It Hot."

[cacian]

I have been thinking if guys and gals prefered women with or without makeup because that is an essential part a beauty regime to entice and entertain.
So is makeup as a must in a woman's look or simply too fake and disagreable to the lips when it comes to that ''heated kiss'' haha sorry I had to ask it!!!:D

[Emil Miller]

I have been thinking if guys and gals prefered women with or without makeup because that is an essential part a beauty regime to entice and entertain.
So is makeup as a must in a woman's look or simply too fake and disagreable to the lips when it comes to that ''heated kiss'' haha sorry I had to ask it!!!:D

Women wear makeup to give themselves confidence, it has very little to do with attracting men. Much will depend on facial bone structure where makeup is used to try to alter the shape of the face into a more pleasing appearance but when too much is applied it simply draws attention to whatever defects there are and it should be used sparingly and with skill to achieve the best effect.
Personally, I think It would be nicer if women could get away without it but that isn't going to happen.

[prendrelemick]

As William Cobbett put it.

Give me, for a beautiful sight, a neat and smart woman, heating her oven and setting in her bread! And, if the bustle does make the sign of labor glisten on her brow, where is the man that would not kiss that off, rather than lick the plaster from the cheek of a duchess?”

[Emil Miller]

As William Cobbett put it.

Give me, for a beautiful sight, a neat and smart woman, heating her oven and setting in her bread! And, if the bustle does make the sign of labor glisten on her brow, where is the man that would not kiss that off, rather than lick the plaster from the cheek of a duchess?”

He was never a man to mince his words.

[cacian]

Women wear makeup to give themselves confidence, it has very little to do with attracting men. Much will depend on facial bone structure where makeup is used to try to alter the shape of the face into a more pleasing appearance but when too much is applied it simply draws attention to whatever defects there are and it should be used sparingly and with skill to achieve the best effect.
Personally, I think It would be nicer if women could get away without it but that isn't going to happen.

Of course and I like makeup don't get me wrong it is all part of the fun and gettind dolled up is cool but not everyday though because that would just take the thrill out of it.
The same with plastic surgery I would not go that way because I would not want a plastic look oh the horrors!!
Too much make up on a daily basis is ageeing for the skin because skin needs to breath.
I was only wondering if men in general or women for that matter liked or not liked kissing someone with lipstick on?!!
I know I would not like it because it must taste horrible when it gets inside your mouth:sick:

[Emil Miller]

Of course and I like makeup don't get me wrong it is all part of the fun and gettind dolled up is cool but not everyday though because that would just take the thrill out of it.
The same with plastic surgery I would not go that way because I would not want a plastic look oh the horrors!!
Too much make up on a daily basis is ageeing for the skin because skin needs to breath.
I was only wondering if men in general or women for that matter liked or not liked kissing someone with lipstick on?!!
I know I would not like it because it must taste horrible when it gets inside your mouth:sick:

Yes it's sensible to consider the skin's breathing requirement but I was listening to a radio programme where the presenter said that she decided to go into work without makeup but passed a hall mirror on the away out and was so horrified by what she saw that she immediately turned around and went back to put makeup on.
I have never understood why so many women choose that bright red lipstick that looks like a raspberry stuck in their face I have never mentioned it but always wanted to ask why they don't choose a muted colour. Anyhow, I never found lipstick to taste horrible but it can be quite messy when it has been over applied.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

When it comes to fat, it's possible to be obese and healthy. The danger is in storing fat where fat shouldn't be stored, like your heart.
This is quite true. My dad is 5'8" and around 220-230 pounds (medically considered obese). But his cholesterol is low, his blood pressure is low, after testing his doctors said his heart and arteries are about as healthy as can be, and when he took a stress test (that thing where you run on a tread mill and they watch your vitals) it took him forever to actually stress his body out to where they needed him to. A couple years ago he ran a half marathon, 13.1 miles, in about three hours.

Hahaha, statistics are unreliable and must be wrong unless they support your opinion? That's such an unbelievably prevalent cliché of any person who strongly and unyieldingly aligns with one side or the other of the political spectrum, and it's hilarious that you just came right out and said it, just like that.
Yes, that was refreshing.

[Jack of Hearts]

As William Cobbett put it.

Give me, for a beautiful sight, a neat and smart woman, heating her oven and setting in her bread! And, if the bustle does make the sign of labor glisten on her brow, where is the man that would not kiss that off, rather than lick the plaster from the cheek of a duchess?”

Kinky.







J

[Neo_Sephiroth]

This is an interesting thread. I like it. :D I don't know about you guys but I seem to be attracted to the ladies that plays hard to get.

[Delta40]

Women wear makeup to give themselves confidence, it has very little to do with attracting men. Much will depend on facial bone structure where makeup is used to try to alter the shape of the face into a more pleasing appearance but when too much is applied it simply draws attention to whatever defects there are and it should be used sparingly and with skill to achieve the best effect.
Personally, I think It would be nicer if women could get away without it but that isn't going to happen.

53% of women won't leave the house without makeup. I agree it should be used sparingly, if at all. I only use mascara and lipstick on work days and none at all on my days off. Feels great!

[stlukesguild]

This is quite true. My dad is 5'8" and around 220-230 pounds (medically considered obese). But his cholesterol is low, his blood pressure is low, after testing his doctors said his heart and arteries are about as healthy as can be, and when he took a stress test (that thing where you run on a tread mill and they watch your vitals) it took him forever to actually stress his body out to where they needed him to. A couple years ago he ran a half marathon, 13.1 miles, in about three hours.

My studio mate puts all of my other friends and family to shame. He is a marathon runner... professional. One of the top 100 in his age group. On a good run he'll finish the entire marathon... 26+ miles... in somewhere in the vicinity of 2 hours and 25 minutes... at age 43. Today he's hiking across the great divide in the Rocky Mountains... a trek of some several hundred miles that includes a couple of passes above 10,000 feet and one above 14,000. He'll be out in the wilderness with only that which he can carry for some 13 days. In the past he's hiked the Matterhorn, ran the Highland Trail in Scotland, and run across Death Valley. He doesn't have an ounce of fat on him.

[YesNo]

My dad is 5'8" and around 220-230 pounds (medically considered obese).

There is also a waist/height ratio that might be worth considering to help include the effect of heavier muscle weight. Here's a calculator for that along with a BMI (weight/height) ratio.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/calc-bmi-plus

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I just did his calculations, and he is considered obese.

[Emil Miller]

This is an interesting thread. I like it. :D I don't know about you guys but I seem to be attracted to the ladies that plays hard to get.

Well that's the idea.

[JuniperWoolf]

Sorry, I missed this until I noticed that you had been on to post in the other thread.


If people aren't run by influence then account for the number of women in my country who are spending thousands of pounds during a time of severe economic austerity to mutiliate, and stick foreign objects into, their bodies. You are giving young people too much credit. Take a look at the world we live in. Free will is impeded at every turn.

The reason men are not influenced by these images is because these images are not meant to be sexually appealing. So of course, young men are indifferent towards them.

They are targeted towards young women, or rather groups of young women, and the message is that skinny equals success and wealth. Again it is nott sexual.


That sounds right. Still, that's not a reflection of humanity, it's a reflection on a relatively small proportion of humanity who profiteer off of the strong insecurity of young girls. I think that humanity as a whole tends towards good.

[Delta40]

I think we must retain a sense of humour too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR4O68kUj5c

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Well that's the idea.

Hmmmm...True. :D It wouldn't be much fun if it was easy. Then again, I ain't getting any younger.

[Emil Miller]

Hmmmm...True. :D It wouldn't be much fun if it was easy. Then again, I ain't getting any younger.

I know what you mean, but the upside is that women become more approachable when they know they can outrun a man.

[PoeticPassions]

I think we must retain a sense of humour too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR4O68kUj5c

lol. I'd like some clitter! hahaha

[JuniperWoolf]

Hahahaha, "thanks clitter, for turning my labia into a YAYbia!"

[Neo_Sephiroth]

I know what you mean, but the upside is that women become more approachable when they know they can outrun a man.

:lol: Good point. That is a wonderful upside. :D I don't mind a woman who can outrun me. It lets me know I'm that I'm with someone who match me toe to toe so or more in some cases.

[Revolte]

Hahahaha, "thanks clitter, for turning my labia into a YAYbia!"


I choked on my coffee in a burst of laughter :svengo: :rofl:.

[Monamy]

I'll have to say the mind, so I'm going with Intelligence.

[crusoe]

She has to be able to think around the bend. (around more than one...)