Paradise Lost: Bad English?

[Raven Falcon.]

Was John Milton a bad writer?

That is my question.

I had an argument with a friend to whom I gave a copy of Paradise Lost for a glance. Of course, he proceeded to read it, but he was vexed by the syntax and vocabulary and immediately decried it as pretentious, superfluous, and ungrammatical.

He then compared it to both the last Harry Potter book and the first Twilight, citing them as examples of lucid, honest, and disciplined writing.

I tried to present some rebuttals, but he kept on insisting that 'simplicity' and 'adhering to convention of basic English' as examples of great writing. He went further by stating that having deep themes doesn't mean anything since the themes of parental love in Harry Potter and unconditional affection in Twilight are something that resonate more with the human condition -he considers those series as the modern representation of the ubiquitous 'love conquers everything; love knows no boundaries' theme.

This friend of mine used Milton's tendency to use big unfamiliar words as the sign of his non-discipline and his insistence on not rhyming his verse as his laziness.


This is what I think:
Is it really unforgivable if a writer uses big words on occasions?
Is having your own style tantamount to disobedience towards the English grammar?

My case will not rest until some of you here, my respected forum-mates, expound your thoughts.

I may now thank you all.

[OrphanPip]

What are the conventions of basic English, and why would you expect a 17th century text to be written in modern syntax. Your friend's criticism is neither lucid nor "disciplined."

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Your friend sounds like an idiot. I hope he/she is a friend for other reasons than
literary discourse.

[Charles Darnay]

You don't need to look further than the aesthetic quality of Paradise Lost too see how wrong your friend is. That we are invited into Satan's inner circle but kept out of reach form understanding God is nothing short of Sublime. The rhetoric is powerful and masterful.

As far as the writing goes: I do not think Milton was writing in his own style. Some lines are straight out of Homer when it comes to the rhythm, and blank verse poetry was already becoming the style.

As for use of "big words" - can you blame a late Renaissance society, fascinated by language, the integration of Greek and Latin, and with a flare for portmanteaus - can you blame them for being verbose?

[OrphanPip]

Samuel Johnson had similar criticisms of Milton's language though, but I think it's more a sign of Milton's strength that his language was unusual:

"[269] Through all his greater works there prevails an uniform peculiarity of Diction, a mode and cast of expression which bears little resemblance to that of any former writer, and which is so far removed from common use that an unlearned reader when he first opens his book finds himself surprised by a new language.

[270] This novelty has been, by those who can find nothing wrong in Milton, imputed to his laborious endeavours after words suitable to the grandeur of his ideas. "Our language," says Addison, "sunk under him." But the truth is, that both in prose and verse, he had formed his style by a perverse and pedantick principle. He was desirous to use English words with a foreign idiom. This in all his prose is discovered and condemned, for there judgement operates freely, neither softened by the beauty nor awed by the dignity of his thoughts; but such is the power of his poetry that his call is obeyed without resistance, the reader feels himself in captivity to a higher and a nobler mind, and criticism sinks in admiration.

[271] Milton's style was not modified by his subject: what is shown with greater extent in Paradise Lost may be found in Comus. One source of his peculiarity was his familiarity with the Tuscan poets: the disposition of his words is, I think, frequently Italian; perhaps sometimes combined with other tongues. Of him, at last, may be said what Jonson says of Spenser, that "he wrote no language," but has formed what Butler calls "a Babylonish Dialect," in itself harsh and barbarous, but made by exalted genius and extensive learning the vehicle of so much instruction and so much pleasure that, like other lovers, we find grace in its deformity."

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

If one wants to criticize PL, that's fine. That doesn't make your friend an idiot. Saying Harry Potter and Twilight are in any way better does, though.

[Raven Falcon.]

If one wants to criticize PL, that's fine. That doesn't make your friend an idiot. Saying Harry Potter and Twilight are in any way better does, though.

If Paradise Lost is bad, then Moby Dick is bad too, since latter is undeniably influenced by the former.


There is very minute possibility that a literary critic, an honest one, would critic Paradise Lost without conferring it some merits.

This friend of mine also happens to hate Moby Dick;let us just say that he prefers today's fictions over the classics and he often uses various best-seller's lists to vindicate his preference.

Any piece of fiction, says he, that tries to be literary is nothing more than the writer's lamentation of his own miserable spirit.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

He just sounds like another person who is so arrogant that he thinks what he likes translates to determine the actual quality of a piece of literature. They're a lot of them out there.

[Charles Darnay]

He's a reverse hipster. "I'm so cool, I liked Harry Potter after it was popular."

[Alexander III]

Meh to each his own, maybe he is right, and from his worldview he certainly is.

[stlukesguild]

Your friend is a moron.

[JuniperWoolf]

He's a reverse hipster. "I'm so cool, I liked Harry Potter after it was popular."

http://www.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0022/9MuE721247.jpg

[Lokasenna]

Milton is, unquestionably, one of the titans of world literature - and deservedly so. PL will be read, understood and enjoyed centuries after Harry Potter and Twilight have faded into obscurity.

To address your friend's point about language, I think I'm on reasonably firm territory when I say that Milton, perhaps more than any other writer, has a facility for using the language. It is rich, eloquent, beautiful and meaningful. Read it aloud, and it rolls off the tongue in such a gratifying way.

As for addressing themes, I disagree with your friend entirely. Art is difficult, and some people need to get over that stumbling block. If art is to be easily accessible to everyone, then it must conform to the lowest common denominator: idiocy. If 'great' literature only boils down to the broad and general themes of the human condition, then it must perforce be facile.

[Aylinn]

Harry Potter and Twilight have simple vocabulary, because they are targeted at children and teenagers who would find more complex works to be too demanding and people who don't want to be challenged by their entertainment. The lucidity of style in these books has nothing to do with them being great pieces of literature.

[kiki1982]

Wow, there are people in this world who are beyond help, then...

I did enjoy Richardson's criticism. Witty :), although it should be respected because it was at least founded, where your friend's, well, who cares?

@Lokasenna:

tssssssss, that is snobbish and non-PC, how dare you :nono:. I suppport that notion :devil:.

I haven't read PL, I should really, but I can't pluck up the courage. Maybe one day I'll feel up to it. I have read some verses, though, inlcuding the introduction. I would not dare to criticise it for its language (???) or dream of comparing it to a children's book :eek:.

As to the human condition: tell him that the human condition is more than "love conquers all". It's about selfishness, distortion (hello Satan) and things like that.
Personally, I would not waste my breath, he sounds way too far gone to bring back onto the straight and narrow.

[mortalterror]

"Your ignorance, brother," returned she, "as the great Milton says, almost subdues my patience." "D--n Milton!" answered the squire: "if he had the impudence to say so to my face, I'd lend him a douse, thof he was never so great a man. Patience! An you come to that, sister, I have more occasion of patience, to be used like an overgrown schoolboy, as I am by you. Do you think no one hath any understanding, unless he hath been about at court. Pox! the world is come to a fine pass indeed, if we are all fools, except a parcel of round-heads and Hanover rats. Pox! I hope the times are a coming when we shall make fools of them, and every man shall enjoy his own."
-The History of Tom Jones, a foundling by Henry Fielding

[mona amon]

As to the human condition: tell him that the human condition is more than "love conquers all". It's about selfishness, distortion (hello Satan) and things like that.
Personally, I would not waste my breath, he sounds way too far gone to bring back onto the straight and narrow.

Just for the record, the Harry Potter books are full of selfishness, distortion and things like that.

[Raven Falcon.]

Just for the record, the Harry Potter books are full of selfishness, distortion and things like that.

Is it a superbly written series? Is the language as beautiful and electrifying?

[kiki1982]

Oh, of course, but the deception and distortion won't be half as clever a I gather PL's Satan is.

To make a reader go with the bad only to realise later that he was supposed to go with the good and well knew what it was, is a feat of great merit. Certainly as you know what it is about and you know that God = Good.

I gather that's the great merit of Paradise Lost adn that that was the problem for many critics at the time.

[prendrelemick]

I believe Milton's modus operandi was to write in English as though it were Latin, that is he wrote in the Latinate tradition where word order and phrasing is different and seems odd to us. I don't know why he did this, I suspect he was emulating the style of the Great Epics of antiquity and trying to elevate and intellectualise his poem. Perhaps he actually did think and compose in Latin.

When Keats tried something similar with his would-be-epic The Fall of Hyperion, he found the the Epic form too formal and restrictive for the language he wanted to use, and gave up on it, declaring what is life to Milton is death to me.

[ennison]

That question was a wind up surely. Twilight better than Milton Ha Ha! Milton wrote in Latin quite a bit and no doubt that influenced his thinking in English. It's a waste of time educating the opinionated who know very little. Just let him enjoy his twilight.