miracles :religious or superstious?

[cacian]

a miracle is something that happens when we least expect it, or something beyond an explanation.
what is the most famous miracle in the bible or religion?

[osho]

a miracle is something that happens when we least expect it, or something beyond an explanation.
what is the most famous miracle in the bible or religion?

You often raise interesting threads that arrest my attention and engage me in reflections for a while. Miracles are aplenty in most religious texts and in fact if there are no myths or miracles you cannot conceive something of religiously intended for. Jesus touches somebody and heals him or her and this goes in the same way with the rest of other religions, something inconceivable for our rational minds. And they simply stimulate the imagination of children and once we get grown up we are likely to lose the capacity for enjoying the myth or mystery of those scriptural stuffs

[Polednice]

You often raise interesting threads that arrest my attention and engage me in reflections for a while. Miracles are aplenty in most religious texts and in fact if there are no myths or miracles you cannot conceive something of religiously intended for. Jesus touches somebody and heals him or her and this goes in the same way with the rest of other religions, something inconceivable for our rational minds. And they simply stimulate the imagination of children and once we get grown up we are likely to lose the capacity for enjoying the myth or mystery of those scriptural stuffs

I don't think we lose our capacity for enjoying those myths - certainly, the miraculous tales of the Bible and other religions can be extremely poetic and inspiring. We should, however, lose our capacity to believe such things as though they were true.

[cacian]

I don't think we lose our capacity for enjoying those myths - certainly, the miraculous tales of the Bible and other religions can be extremely poetic and inspiring. We should, however, lose our capacity to believe such things as though they were true.

Hi Polednice do you have a miracle story from the bible at hand?
I do not know any myself.

[YesNo]

I recently listened to Todd Murphy's lecture Psychic Skills & Miracles which might be relevant here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC1174POpA

I'm not sure I entirely agree with him, but I find it interesting. He focuses on the brain and tries to use magnetism to stimulate psychic abilities. Later in the lecture he mentioned Jesus' loaves and fishes miracle and relates that to two other miracles in which objects appeared out of nowhere for a guru.

Murphy is a self-proclaimed Buddhist and a neuroscientist. He promotes something called "neurotheology".

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Well, Cacian, there's many miracles in the Bible. There's the time when Moses parted the Red Sea...There's also many miracles that Jesus performed...Hmmmm...Like, when an ill woman touched Jesus cloths and, through her faith, she was healed.

There's more but I'm more than happy to share some...Another time. :D

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Religious, superstitious . . . the same thing, no?

[Varenne Rodin]

Silliness. I just performed the miracle of turning water into wine. Do you believe me? Of course not. Bonkers.

[Riesa]

I don't think we lose our capacity for enjoying those myths - certainly, the miraculous tales of the Bible and other religions can be extremely poetic and inspiring. We should, however, lose our capacity to believe such things as though they were true.
I like how you say that. that is exactly what happened to me, I enjoyed all the stories, and the idea of miracles and such, until I thought enough about it to find it something that made my skin itch, something I couldn't quite believe in without making a huge "i am so perplexed by why this is thought to be true" look. I know I am somewhat alone in these thoughts.

[cacian]

Religious, superstitious . . . the same thing, no?

Not so sure because sometimes one can equate surperstition to instinct.
One might say I have a feeling that something is up or something along these lines and instinct plays a major role in superstition.
The same would go for religion unless you are intuitive then you are not able to believe in something you do not see.
I might be wrong but this is I can explain it.

[Paulclem]

In Buddhism, miracle powers are part of the path of meditation. They are not seen as divine or God given, but are a consequence of a lot of successful practice. They are not the aim of the path, but a by-product of it.

There are rules saying that these powers are not to be displayed in public. The reason no-one sees examples of such things is that they are not displayed. They are not displayed because in these times, demonstrations of this kind only cause controversy which is counter productive. The other reason is that such people who have attained miracle powers do not have the worldly concerns of us ordinary folk. Their qualities are used for spiritual purposes.

One such miracle power cited is knowig people's minds. I've been lucky enough to see this in action.

[billl]

Better than "unlucky enough" to see it in action! I think there might be other reasons for keeping this sort of thing under wraps, especially keeping it away from individuals who aren't completely attracted to the Buddhist approach and perspective.

I think there's a good case to be made on behalf of those who don't want their minds known, nor to know the minds of others. It certainly seems best for people who develop this sort of ability to keep it to themselves.

[ShadowsCool]

I just wonder how people can say something is a myth just because they can't understand it. Amazing

[Paulclem]

Better than "unlucky enough" to see it in action! I think there might be other reasons for keeping this sort of thing under wraps, especially keeping it away from individuals who aren't completely attracted to the Buddhist approach and perspective.

I think there's a good case to be made on behalf of those who don't want their minds known, nor to know the minds of others. It certainly seems best for people who develop this sort of ability to keep it to themselves.

Agreed Billl. The person in question was a Monk of impecable character who used it to instruct the people he was teaching in meditation techniques. he would describe what they saw to them, and give them instruction and advice based on this. He was quite amazing.

[YesNo]

Besides reading minds, what sort of things did the monks do that was miraculous?

Some of the techniques that Laura Day mentions in How to Rule the World from Your Couch is medianship, telepathy, remote viewing, precognition and healing. These are natural ways to be "intuitive" that she claims anyone can practice regardless of religious intention. One of the things I remember about her comments on telepathy is that embodying oneself, I guess mindfulness, is the only way to protect against the telepathy coming from others.

[Paulclem]

Besides reading minds, what sort of things did the monks do that was miraculous?

Some of the techniques that Laura Day mentions in How to Rule the World from Your Couch is medianship, telepathy, remote viewing, precognition and healing. These are natural ways to be "intuitive" that she claims anyone can practice regardless of religious intention. One of the things I remember about her comments on telepathy is that embodying oneself, I guess mindfulness, is the only way to protect against the telepathy coming from others.

There is a list of miracle powers - remember this is a translated term and won't have the inference of divine power - and some of them are knowing others minds, travelling through the earth, being in more than one place at a time.

There are also other attributes that go along with meditation retreats by ascetics such as Tummo - inner fire - which makes the practitioner impervious to cold, being able to survive on just water, being able to run for long distances at an unusual speed. There are also qualities such as being able to perceive beings from other realms, such as ghosts, and, for advanced practitioners, being able to perceive Buddhas.

This is not a comprehensive list, but just those that I recall. The Buddha was also associated with various miracle powers.

[osho]

We know little about the constructs of this universe. Science has of course done a great deal in explaining some natural phenomena and yet things remain mostly a mystery and we cannot fathom the depths of the universe or human mind though we have made so many explorations. The world is really inexplicable.

That is why I believe miracles happen and I cannot say who make it happen

[YesNo]

I remember watching Shortcut to Nirvana: Kumbh Mela http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420723/ where Yog Mata Keiko Aikawa went underground in a small excavated area about 8 feet deep. The hole was covered so no light or air could enter. She came out 3 days later in the same condition as when she went in. That was the most amazing "miracle" that I saw on the video. I don't know why one would even consider doing something like that, but I was impressed and that might have been the point.

Here is more information on Yog Mata: http://pilotbaba.org/links/yogmata2.htm

I don't like considering any of these things miracles. They are evidence of things that can happen. Also, I don't like to associate them with a specific religion, whether that is Christianity or Buddhism or one of the other Indian religions, because these miraculous happenings tend to justify the possibly unrelated doctrines of a particular religion.

[Paulclem]

I remember watching Shortcut to Nirvana: Kumbh Mela http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420723/ where Yog Mata Keiko Aikawa went underground in a small excavated area about 8 feet deep. The hole was covered so no light or air could enter. She came out 3 days later in the same condition as when she went in. That was the most amazing "miracle" that I saw on the video. I don't know why one would even consider doing something like that, but I was impressed and that might have been the point.

Here is more information on Yog Mata: http://pilotbaba.org/links/yogmata2.htm

I don't like considering any of these things miracles. They are evidence of things that can happen. Also, I don't like to associate them with a specific religion, whether that is Christianity or Buddhism or one of the other Indian religions, because these miraculous happenings tend to justify the possibly unrelated doctrines of a particular religion.

Quite right. The Buddhist attitude is that they arise as a by-product of practice and should not be developed for their own sake.

Also, anyone can develop them, it is said, so they are associated with a certain level of mind rather than a religion.

From my own experience, i think that intuition and the occaisional odd occurrence are because we have a potential within us.

[YesNo]

I agree, Paulclem, that the miraculous events that occur are by-products of various kinds of practice and perhaps individual talents. There seem to be people with different religious intentions or no religious intention that are able to do similar things.

That such things occur at all amazes me and makes me feel like osho does that we haven't fathomed all the mysteries of the universe.

[Polednice]

I just wonder how people can say something is a myth just because they can't understand it. Amazing

I wonder how people can witness something they don't understand and thus conclude that it's a miracle. It's actually understanding that leads us to recognise myth; ignorance is what leads us to believe in magic.

[Paulclem]

I agree, Paulclem, that the miraculous events that occur are by-products of various kinds of practice and perhaps individual talents. There seem to be people with different religious intentions or no religious intention that are able to do similar things.

That such things occur at all amazes me and makes me feel like osho does that we haven't fathomed all the mysteries of the universe.

Agreed. There's naturally a lot of scepticism on the forum with the predominant scientific mindsets rather than religious ones. I think they represent a desire for truth, and equally a desire not to be duped - both positive minds.

A Chnese friend once said to me that Emptiness - in the Buddhist sense of highest reality - is a great puzzle, which implies it has to be worked out. I think the same can be said for truth. Does science provide us with the truth? It might. In the meantime there's this puzzle, the mystery, which might.

[IntravenousJava]

Perhaps there is ultimately nothing miraculous about miracles. Perhaps "miracles" are phenomena that lie just beyond the absolute limits of our comprehension, in which case they will never be satisfactorily explained, or just a bit outside paradigms we have yet to transcend, in which case there is still hope.

[Freudian Monkey]

I just wonder how people can say something is a myth just because they can't understand it. Amazing

Calling something a myth is an interpretation, it has nothing to do with understanding or not understanding the issue at hand. If there is no historical or scientific evidence for a character or an event appearing in ancient literature it is considered mythical/fictional by default.

[cafolini]

Deep or far enough, anything is a miracle. Deep or far enough, anything might be a religion. Deep or far enough, anything is magical. But on the surface, there are some laws that must be respected. Can't have the cake and eat too. Look up and down the street before you cross. ~ C A Cafolini