Are you expecting a prophet?

[osho]

The world is not going to be a better place anymore. Notwithstanding our democratic values, triggering economic development and technological advance we are verging ourselves on the precipitous edge. I am not talking only about external attributes or environments. It is psychological issues too. Imagine single parenthood is on the increase and in the name of individualism or liberty we are jeopardizing some of the great values that tie up or bond people. Depression is on the go and debacle is always upcoming in different manifestations.

There are reasons for being optimistic and yet there are more reasons to be pessimistic too.

Is not it a high time we expect a prophet who will correct us and put a new order of things in this universe?

[JuniperWoolf]

*sigh* More humans nagging about how terrible humans are and how we're practically on the verge of destroying the planet, I don't get it. Honestly, I see this attitude almost every time I'm on the internet, what's with it? Is it somehow enjoyable? It honestly confuses me, so I hope someone will answer.

Our species is better now than it ever has been in 200,000 years, our medicine is at it's most advanced, as is our intercommunication and education for the masses. We've been able to produce more food, and we are on the whole much more charitable. We help other nations when they're in crisis, like recently with Japan or Haiti. Most places have strong human rights regulations, people have compassion for one another. Quality of life for women and minorities is better than it ever has been. Science and technology is advancing at the fastest rate in recorded history. We do have problems - problems which we can fix ourselves. We're getting better, we're better now than we were a century ago, and a century ago we were better than we were a century before that. I think we're advancing pretty well, we don't need a "prophet."

[cacian]

Hi what an interesting thread and yes I agree that the world has gone down the hill big time and is in need of abig push to make it to the top again.
I suppose one would logically assume that if there were prophets in the past as religion has indicated in books and bibles then there should be one now or then whenever otherwise what would be the point of religion or even believing in a god.
The world at this very moment in time is deeply depressed and far too many deaths and wars are taking over the sense of living and liberties.
The worst of it is that whilst some countries are rolling in weatlh and corruption others are deepening in death and destruction. To talk of democracy and values is well and good but what about those who do not have this concept,and could we ever justify the fact that some countries are in the knowledge that other countries are starving and dying and nothing is being done about it?
I think the answer to this thread is that you would find a prophet in everyone of us if one tried hard to be.
One individual does help an entire world for the world must help itself first and foremost, to expect one individual to bear the whole world on their shoulder alone is not fair.
what is fair is to say is that responsibility is shared because the task is human tragedies is down to every individual to come together as one in order to ensure the world gets back on its feet again.

[osho]

*sigh* More humans nagging about how terrible humans are and how we're practically on the verge of destroying the planet, I don't get it. Honestly, what's with that?

Our species is better now than it ever has been in 200,000 years, our medicine is at it's most advanced, as is our communication and education for the masses. We've been able to produce more food, and we are on the whole much more charitable. We help other nations when they're in crisis, like recently with Japan or Haiti. Most places have strong human rights regulations, people have compassion for one another. Quality of life for women and minorities is better than it ever has been. Science and technology is advancing at the fastest in recorded history. We do have obvious problems - problems which we can fix ourselves. We're getting better, we're better now than we were a century ago, and a century ago we were better than we were a century before that. We're advancing just fine. We don't need a "prophet," if such a thing could even exist.
There are numbers of reasons we have improved over previous centuries on many fronts. I have to agree on that count. Things have progressed and of course some have regressed too. We have more medicines than our predecessors but our immunity has weakened. We have more wealth and have ownership over a great many resources but we are getting pathetically lonelier than our ancestors. We have no doubt that more food since our science and technological advances have galvanized them but we are losing appetite and kind of find less tastes. We are globally connected but suffer more broken families than ever before. We have more gadgets, more quantities of materials and our life expectancy has been more prolonged, yet there are a thousand and one reasons the quality of life has deteriorated. The span of life does not necessarily improve the quality of life and people living longer are not necessarily happier than those who live shorter in developing countries. Imagine how single parents living on antidepressants with their longer life-spans endorse the corrosion on the meaning of living.

We have equipped ourselves with more and more things yet we have paid for them

[JuniperWoolf]

We have more medicines than our predecessors but our immunity has weakened.

Where are you getting that information?


We have more wealth and have ownership over a great many resources but we are getting pathetically lonelier than our ancestors.

We're "lonelier?" That's not even measurable. Our friends and family members don't automatically die if they get the flu anymore, so I don't see how having more living friends family members means we're lonelier.


We have no doubt that more food since our science and technological advances have galvanized them but we are losing appetite and kind of find less tastes.

I think you just made that up. For centuries, people in European cities had to survive for weeks at a time on just bread, they couldn't have "taste" for anything else because they didn't have anything else. The masses having a choice about what they eat is a very recent human development.


We are globally connected but suffer more broken families than ever before.

By "broken" I assume you mean "divorced." Divorce is a good thing in a society, because now a husband can't beat the hell out of his wife and still force her to stay.


We have more gadgets, more quantities of materials and our life expectancy has been more prolonged, yet there are a thousand and one reasons the quality of life has deteriorated.

You don't have to work for twelve hours/day to feed your family the bare minimum to keep them from starving, if your kid gets a tooth ache or diarrhea he's probably not going to die from it, there's not a 50% chance that your wife is going to die in childbirth, and 2/3 of your children aren't going to die before they reach their fifth birthday. You're not completely ignorant of the world around you, you've had an education and know that thunder isn't caused by an angry sky god, and you realize that people look different because of melanin differences in their skin and not because there's something wrong with them. If you suffer a terrible injury, painkillers exist and very few people that you know are going to slowly and painfully die from infection. If you do something wrong, you get a trial - you aren't simply stabbed in the face for stealing someone's horse. This whole "good ol' days" fantasy is just that - a fantasy, people watching too many Little House on the Prairie marathons.

[osho]

I am not a statistician and this is not a research paper either. You know through media news that we are losing our immunity and bacteria are getting stronger and stronger against our immunizations.

Our society has been more fragmented pigment and when children see their parents fighting over issues their fragile mindsets become really muddled. Individualism is simply cornering ourselves and you must have heard about the Tiger Mother. That means western individualistic society that does not control children and they in turn likely to go astray is something distorting western children rearing mechanisms.

If you argue that food quality is not deteriorating, you will be lying to yourself. If you do not want to agree that we are smashing up our environment and poisoning it with more fossil fuel and emitting toxics from our industrial estates, you will have yet to update yourself with the goings-on globally. If you are blind to the oil-spill, this will be a pity.

If you are living in a secured and insulated city and have no updates about the melting down of glaciers and the warming up of sea –water. One event in high hills and mountains cause landslides devastating villages and townships and the other event drowns many islands and raise tsunamis and other great calamities.

If you open your mind and see the scene behind the curtain that has insulated your ken will disappear.

[JuniperWoolf]

You know through media news that we are losing our immunity and bacteria are getting stronger and stronger against our immunizations.

Bacteria are getting stronger because our antibiotics are getting stronger.


Our society has been more fragmented pigment and when children see their parents fighting over issues their fragile mindsets become really muddled.

Yeah, okay. Because in past millennia, all they had to see was rape, murder and horrible, rotting disease, not to mention the fact that they could have been sold into slavery at the word "go" (and millions were, by Roman account alone). Even up until this century in some places (hell, even up to now in some places), all they had to witness was their father beating the snot out of their mother with no repercussions, I'm sure their "fragile mindsets" had no problem with that.


Individualism is simply cornering ourselves and you must have heard about the Tiger Mother. That means western individualistic society that does not control children and they in turn likely to go astray is something distorting western children rearing mechanisms.

That's ridiculously off topic.


If you argue that food quality is not deteriorating, you will be lying to yourself.

It's not. There are quality control measures in place for food in modern society, which our ancestors obviously had to do without. They could eat a piece of meat swimming in E. coli and they wouldn't know it. How many people do you know who have died from food poisoning? Furthermore, we have more food now, and less global-wide starvation. Why? Advancements in agriculture.


If you do not want to agree that we are smashing up our environment and poisoning it with more fossil fuel and emitting toxics from our industrial estates, you will have yet to update yourself with the goings-on globally.

Nature can handle it, it's had worse. The reason we need to find alternative feul sources is for our own survival, and we will when the need is great enough. That's how this works.


If you are living in a secured and insulated city and have no updates about the melting down of glaciers and the warming up of sea –water. One event in high hills and mountains cause landslides devastating villages and townships and the other event drowns many islands and raise tsunamis and other great calamities.

Yeah, things change. The glaciers have been melting since the last ice age, because it's not the ice age anymore. The planet might be getting warmer, and if it does then our ecology is going to change, and us with it. Change isn't something to be afraid of, it's something to adapt to, that's life. The planet has been changing for billions of years, species have been going extinct (sometimes almost all of them have gone extinct all at once, in the cases of mass extinction) and new species have developed from the old. I have yet to see any new and hitherto-unknown catastrophe that's going to terminate this process, and frankly the idea that one species which has been alive for 200,000 years can completely obliterate such a wonderful self-regulating system like the biosphere (which, by the way, has been reduced to radioactive sludge on more than one occasion) is arrogant and laughable. I don't even see how our own species is at risk. We're great adaptors, we're smart, we have the ability to build and cooperate, and we have the capacity for higher morality when our basic needs are met. I think our chances are pretty great.


If you open your mind and see the scene behind the curtain that has insulated your ken will disappear.

If I open my mind? You're spouting the same doomsday garbage they shove down your throat to sell newspapers, it's tired and unfounded. Think for yourself.

[Polednice]

This is all worthless speculation, and playing pretend psychologist. You're scared about things that are either non-existent or not bad, and yet you sound as though you won't hear anything to set your mind at ease because many people need to feel that the world is bad. Do you realise that people have been saying the same things as you for thousands of years? I'd be interested if you could give a date in history that you'd like the world to return to. Our world isn't perfect, but I see no better times in our past.

[JuniperWoolf]

You're scared about things that are either non-existent or not bad, and yet you sound as though you won't hear anything to set your mind at ease because many people need to feel that the world is bad. Do you realise that people have been saying the same things as you for thousands of years?

Right, you see that a lot, so in the last year or so I've been really wondering: why do people do that?

[Neo_Sephiroth]

This is wierd...And it looks like someone caught Juni on a bad day or something. Well, either way, I LOVE YOU ALL! Muah! Muah!

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Human society may be in the best conditions it has ever seen, but that doesn't mean it's good. Parts of it are good. Human compassion abounds. Parts of it are bad. Human cruelty abounds.

My belief. The current world, when viewed on a large scale, sucks. It used to suck more, at least as long as humans have been around.

Also, Osho is right when he/she says that our immunities are lower, at least when we talk about people of more "civilized" societies. We've used antibiotics so much that are immune systems are becoming immune to them. Trust me, I'm someone very acquainted with antibiotics, so unless all my doctors have been lying to me, this is a fact. It's funny--most parents think they're helping their kids by not letting them get dirty when young, but that only hurts them. Playing in dirt and being around germs strengthens the body. That's probably why I'm in as good of shape as I am--my parents let me play outside, swim in dirty lakes, etc.

And, no, I'm not expecting a prophet. Obama failed . . . I'm not opening up my heart like that again, damn him!

[JuniperWoolf]

This is wierd...And it looks like someone caught Juni on a bad day or something. Well, either way, I LOVE YOU ALL! Muah! Muah!

:p It's just the tenor of the thread, if Osho and I were discussing bacon the tone would be completely different.

[Neo_Sephiroth]

:p It's just the tenor of the thread, if Osho and I were discussing bacon the tone would be completely different.

Hahaha! That's cute. I know. I'm just up late and watching...Uhh...Chinese drama. In all seriousness though, Osho did put up an interesting thread. Prophets? This is the first I've seen on Lit-Net. I like it.

[LadyLuck]

Osho - An interesting start to a thread. There is little need to go on about moral, social, and economical decline in our world, but I would ask one thing... Why are modern people so intent on believing that it is new and different? If you look back, even just through written history, it is a cyclical process of the rise and fall of civilizations. The only real difference I see is that we have better toys than earlier ones. I would also be willing to bet that the Romans were saying the same thing when they had their aqueducts, and the people who first cultivated the use of fire probably felt the same superiority at their accomplishments.

As for the coming of a prophet... who's to say they're not already here. The significance of people is very rarely realized when that individual is alive. Mostly, their influence and impact is more poignantly felt after they are long gone. Going back to the history books, I think it is likely that Alexander did not feel that he was as great as we see him to be now, and Jesus was just a man of flesh and blood. Hitler will be written forever in the books for the things that he did, but perhaps some relatively unknown to the world missionary will as well for the good things that they've done.

In a round about way, I guess I am getting at the point that while a prophet may be desired to set things right, we likely wouldn't know them until long after they were gone. So, it seems kind of silly to wish for a fix all, when in so many ways I think there is little to fix. Life is just that, good or bad, easy or hard. It's a little hard to complain over the price of gas or having tough economic times when 5,000 years ago me and my children would never have survived. Each era of the world brings its own challenges, and these are ours. The more people try and "fix" things, the more challenges that arise. Take the example of bacteria, in an effort to keep people alive and healthy, we've now created a need for a steady invention of new antibiotics since bacteria are resistant to the ones we've exposed them to for the last 100+ years.

[paradoxical]

Indeed, we have pushed the natural world to the brink of destruction. The entire ecosystem hangs in the balance, and once that is gone, we will not survive. I think there's a growing awareness that something bad is coming and that no matter what action we take now, it may already be too late. Global Warming is here, there is no doubt. The ice caps are melting, and the oceans are rising. This will bring about the deaths of millions of people, as well as many species of wildlife.

Now, this is no natural occurrence but rather a direct result of trillions of tons of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases that we have pumped into the atmosphere. Constant warfare, nuclear weapons and nuclear waste threaten the lives of all. Like you say, depression is epidemic. Even in the developed nations, suicide remains a leading cause of death. Not to mention the diseases caused by the stress of living in such a ultra-competitive society. Most of us have no social safety net and without money, you have no food or shelter. We also have no control over the greed of corporations and governments who destroy jobs in the name of profits. Do you think Wall Street cares about human life? Of course not. Instead, we are told to sink or swim but it's become harder and harder to survive. I think many feel a sense of hopelessness.

Is it time for a prophet to return? Oh yes, high time I would say. But I'm not expecting one. I do have some far-flung hope that there may actually be a race of alien beings from another galaxy who are already here and observing us. Perhaps they will step in and stop us from destroying our world, but even they may not be able to stop us. I think what is needed is what Krishnamurti referred to as a total revolution in consciousness: a revolution in politics and morality, but most of all, in our thinking. Then again, how do you convince people of the need for this? Many have woken up but many still believe the system is working just fine.

[Revolte]

Juni is tripping, humans do suck. Thankfully I'm a wolf.

And we are all prophets. Aroooo.

But, in all seriousness, I'd have to believe in a religion that has a prophet to put my money on it. I prefer my trees and fires.

However, what is said prophet going to do that ends everything bothersome? I don't see how that's going to make any difference. And didn't that whole flood deal happen (you know, in popular religious theory). If that's true then wiping out the planet didn't do any good and this prophet fellow will bang his head into a wall long before he can stop the babies from getting kidnapped.

As far as I'm concerned if you see a problem and do nothing to fix it you're just as bad as the ones who made it. You can't fix marriage (you can try if you want, but their life already sucks if they have to pay money to not be together, and that's no way to live) and you can't make someone love someone you want them to because you think they should. But if you have the ability to do or say anything, move, or even just think then you can fill that little prophets shoes.

Don't wait for someone to snip problems from nuclear umbilical chords. Get some scissors and start slicing.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I think there's a huge misconception that Juniper already mentioned, but bears repeating. We've only destroyed the environment insofar as it pertains to humans (thinking since what we do to the environment is hurting us it is hurting the environment as a whole really speaks to human arrogance). The environment will be just fine. It can handle whatever we throw at it.

[Revolte]

I think there's a huge misconception that Juniper already mentioned, but bears repeating. We've only destroyed the environment insofar as it pertains to humans (thinking since what we do to the environment is hurting us it is hurting the environment as a whole really speaks to human arrogance). The environment will be just fine. It can handle whatever we throw at it.

Glaciers are melting, species are going extinct and entire towns have to be evaded because of nuclear malfunction. That is harmful to more then us.

[JuniperWoolf]

Glaciers are melting, species are going extinct and entire towns have to be evaded because of nuclear malfunction. That is harmful to more then us.

Species have always been going extinct, and new species have always taken their place. That's why you never find fossils of housecats or zebras. The glaciers formed during the ice age, so now that the ice age has been over for 10,000 years, is it any wonder that they're melting?

Seriously humans, relax. Nothing has even happened, everyone is just watching tv and living their lives and then occasionally thinking about the "environment" and just straight-up losing their sh*t, what the hell? My closest guess is that it's so common because it makes people feel enlightened, like they're "emancipated thinkers" or whatever without actually having to do any actual thinking, and it makes the most vocal doomsayers (ie. sign-holding "the end is neigh" folks who have existed since at least the 1400's) feel important without actually doing anything important. Also, people are more removed from nature now, when I lived in the city I wasn't about to take the three-hour bus ride to get to the woods so "nature" was practically an abstract concept, you forget how unforgiving and expansive it is. If more people spent more time in the woods, they'd see how "fragile" it is out there.

Maybe it's just fun, too. Our world is so comfortable and slow, we go to school, we go to work, we get married, we have children, we go on vacations, we get old, we die. It's dull, throw apocalypse fantasies in there and you've finally got some use for that strong, primal midbrain survival mechanism that yells "FIGHT! RUN! KILL KILL KILL!"

Any other theories?

[Revolte]

Seriously humans, relax; we're doing fine, so stop giving in to cowardice, that's lazy. ]

You're definition of lazy is assume all is fine and do nothing?

And besides, there is no way to know for sure that we are the 'cause of the earth's changes, meaning there is no way to know that we are not.

But showing complete disregard and disrespect to a planet that we need in order to exist, is shallow, selfish and THAT is cowardly.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I'm not saying we should pollute and do whatever we want because "nature can handle it," but it can. Like Juniper said, species have always gone extinct, that's not a new thing. We're hurting the environment, sure, but if you look at the larger scale, it's nothing, really.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Maybe it's just fun, too. Our world is so comfortable and slow, we go to school, we go to work, we get married, we have children, we go on vacations, we get old, we die. It's dull, throw apocalypse fantasies in there and you've finally got some use for that strong, primal midbrain survival mechanism that yells "FIGHT! RUN! KILL KILL KILL!"



I'm assuming you're just speaking for western societies? I don't think people in Afghanistan get to go on many vacations.

[JuniperWoolf]

You're definition of lazy is assume all is fine and do nothing?

That's a confusing sentence. It's lazy to go with this mindset: "the world is ****ed, no point trying to make it better because it can't get better (and I'd know somehow, even though I haven't researched it)."

It's also disrespectful to every human who has ever done something beautiful, who's loved, showed compassion, acted bravely, felt inspiration or triumph or joy, for you to just say "people suck." It bugs me when people say that. You enjoy their art, their literature, their music, their medicine, their technology, and then you condemn them and seemingly deny that you're one of them.


And besides, there is no way to know for sure that we are the 'cause of the earth's changes, meaning there is no way to know that we are not.

There's this episode of The Simpsons in which, after the very first bear sighting in Springfield ever, Homer rallies the people of the town. They form a "Bear Squad," costing millions of dollars, and lo-and-behold, not another bear is seen since it's formation!

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.


But showing complete disregard and disrespect to a planet that we need in order to exist, is shallow, selfish and THAT is cowardly.

Disregard and disrespect for the planet? Besides complain that humans are terrible creatures and poor old nature is so fragile that we're killing her, what have you done exactly? See, this "end is neigh, if you disagree then you should be ashamed of yourself" yaddayadda you're espoucing makes you feel like you're *not* shallow, you're *not* selfish, and you're *not* a coward by comparison - even though the only thing you have to do in order to feel that way is to claim that "the environment" is in serious danger and everyone who doesn't agree with you is selfish, shallow and cowardly. It's a way to feel good without actually doing anything.

I study ecology (er... when I have the coin), and I swear, the more I learn, the more it seems the actual reality is completely different from what the "pop-environmentalists" have been saying. Did you know the co-founder of Greenpeace abandoned the organization because he felt they were painting the environment as something on the verge of collapse, and were using this "environment" fear to rally support for anti-corporate political activism? His name's Patrick Moore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(environmentalist)), he wrote a book (http://www.amazon.ca/Confessions-Greenpeace-Dropout-Sensible-Environmentalist/dp/0986480827/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338264994&sr=8-1) about real (ie. actually useful) environmentalism. You mentioned nuclear energy earlier? Here's what the professional scientist who co-founded Greenpeace has to say on the subject:


Patrick Moore, Greenpeace co-founder, has become a harsh critic abruptly leaving it after leading the group from 18-years because of what he calls “pop-environmentalism.” Specifically he cites fellow directors who without any formal science training labeled nuclear energy “evil” while going on to chemicals and biology and genetics. He calls it “pop-environmentalism” that uses misinformation, fear and sensationalism to deal with people on the emotional level rather than intellectual level.

Moore favors nuclear power because of its low cost ($1.68 per kilowatt hour) and reliability. Moore says natural gas cost three times as much (and where most of the electrical cost increases have come from); wind cost five times as much and solar ten times as much. Moore calls solar power completely ridiculous.

Moore explains nuclear waste recycling reduced it by 90% making it disposal manageable. He wonders how many Americans know half of the U. S. nuclear energy comes from dismantled Russian nuclear war heads? He speaks of a nuclear renaissance to replace coals fired power plants, and debunking the misbegotten idea nuclear reactors produce weapons which they do not. Moore labels the environmental movement an “obstacle.”

Then, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DX3lZ8peBU

A lot of the "green" doodads and movements you see everywhere do absolutely nothing to help the environment (or they such a small difference as to be practically non-existant), they just make people feel good about themselves and put money into someone's pocket. No one checks up on this **** before they start in in the whole "lets save the earth" trip, and now everyone's so scared that the biosphere is like a spiderweb which can be destroyed in a gentle breeze. That's disrespectful to nature, and it's also counterproductive.


I'm assuming you're just speaking for western societies? I don't think people in Afghanistan get to go on many vacations.

Well yeah, of course. The lifestyle and mindset in Afghanistan or Ethiopia doesn't have much to do with this current discussion of misinformation regarding environmental issues, I doubt they give much thought to recycling over there.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I thought we were talking about humanity as a whole, since humanity isn't confined to the western world only. If we're discussing the environment, of course they matter--that they don't consider recycling is the very reason they are relevant to the conversation.

[JuniperWoolf]

I thought we were talking about humanity as a whole, since humanity isn't confined to the western world only. If we're discussing the environment, of course they matter--that they don't consider recycling is the very reason they are relevant to the conversation.

It's just I doubt they discuss environmental issues very much in warzones, which would mean that they wouldn't apply when I said:


Maybe [apocalypse theories are] just fun, too. Our world is so comfortable and slow, we go to school, we go to work, we get married, we have children, we go on vacations, we get old, we die. It's dull, throw apocalypse fantasies in there and you've finally got some use for that strong, primal midbrain survival mechanism that yells "FIGHT! RUN! KILL KILL KILL!"

Which is what you were adressing when you asked the question. Violence in the middle east didn't apply to my post which you quoted regarding the whole Fightclub-esque boredom in the first world which is what often leads to apocalyptic fixation as a hobby (in two flavors: with zombies, or without), but it would be relevant to this thread in general if we go back to the OP; war is one of humanity's problems, but again, I don't think a "prophet" is going to somehow fix everything since many people took it upon themselves to kill people in their last prophet's name.

[Revolte]

I will not take advice from a channel 2 network cartoon. Especially one that hasn't been funny since I was in grade school. And I mentioned the town that is unlivable because of the meltdown in which has left it with lethal amounts of radiation. THAT is clearly caued by humans, and is a BAD thing. Do not blow up my points beyond where I put them, if I meant something more then it I would say so.

And why are you jumping to the conclusion that I think the world is ending? Did I say that? I don't think so. Did I hint at it? I don't think so.

Our conversation ends here.

[JuniperWoolf]

I will not take advice from a channel 2 network cartoon. Especially one that hasn't been funny since I was in grade school.

...I have no idea what you're talking about.


And I mentioned the town that is unlivable because of the meltdown in which has left it with lethal amounts of radiation. THAT is clearly caued by humans, and is a BAD thing.

So? My friend's mom choked to death on a muffin, should we abolish them despite their usefulness? The number of people who have died from nuclear accidents is lower than the number of people who have choked to death on muffins, so the risk of eating them is greater than the risk in using nuclear energy, and nuclear energy is far more useful than muffins.


And why are you jumping to the conclusion that I think the world is ending? Did I say that? I don't think so. Did I hint at it? I don't think so.

You dissociatively and rather arrogantly said "humans suck" (and you said it on the computer, a device created by humans):


Juni is tripping, humans do suck.

And you said that my statement in which I disagreed with you is "shallow, selfish and cowardly" and that it's somehow disrespectful to the biosphere to not treat it like an infirm child:


But showing complete disregard and disrespect to a planet that we need in order to exist, is shallow, selfish and THAT is cowardly.

What's more, my post wasn't just directed at you; it was also in reference to other hysterical and unsupported posts in this thread, like this one from right before yours:


Indeed, we have pushed the natural world to the brink of destruction. The entire ecosystem hangs in the balance, and once that is gone, we will not survive. I think there's a growing awareness that something bad is coming and that no matter what action we take now, it may already be too late.

I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

[osho]

Read the ancient wisdom from India:

"Yada Yada Hi Dharmasya

Glanirva Bhavathi Bharatha,

Abhyuthanam Adharmaysya

Tadatmanam Srijami Aham'.

Bhagavad Gita (Chapter IV-7)

Whenever unrighteousness prevails over righteousness I will incarnate into a new manifestation to protect the virtuous



This is the Vedic institution that heralds the arrival of a prophet at different epochs. In fact other cultures too have similar consecrated connotations. The Buddha arrived along the same lines of canon. Jesus came to save the world by righting the wrong.

I am not a conventional theist and I do not squarely advocate for religious ideas but I cannot absolutely ignore the very theological base. Of course there are some elements of truth in some ancient religious texts. What we read in the Vedas are not total fallacies. Ancient Chinese texts – Taoism and the like- have treasures of knowledge and inspirations and so do the Buddhist scriptures. The Bible too has something to heal the modern sick world.

Of course some great minds of prophetic stature have been saving the world since time immemorial.

The way we think, value certain pieces of ideas, believe or cultures come from a few great minds – not from the great masses. Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud. Adam Smith, Einstein, Keynes, Ben Bernanke, Mao, Lenin had some prophetic elements in their ideas, speeches, didn’t they?

The Mahabharata is such a great epic in India that has been shaping or channeling the very straits of Indian culture. Maybe somewhat so in the Christian world through Biblicla precepts.

Now we live in a different epoch – a technology savvied, driven world wherein information travels at an alarming rate. The internet is closing in on drawing us staggeringly together.

Maybe sometime soon in future we will feel we are one global people and racial, national, geographical, cultural and economic frontiers will be tripped over.

In order therefore to redefine our values we may expect a prophet, to correct our metaphoric exodus.

I think some of you are expecting a prophet together with me.

[blazeofglory]

Species have always been going extinct, and new species have always taken their place. That's why you never find fossils of housecats or zebras. The glaciers formed during the ice age, so now that the ice age has been over for 10,000 years, is it any wonder that they're melting?

Seriously humans, relax. Nothing has even happened, everyone is just watching tv and living their lives and then occasionally thinking about the "environment" and just straight-up losing their sh*t, what the hell? My closest guess is that it's so common because it makes people feel enlightened, like they're "emancipated thinkers" or whatever without actually having to do any actual thinking, and it makes the most vocal doomsayers (ie. sign-holding "the end is neigh" folks who have existed since at least the 1400's) feel important without actually doing anything important. Also, people are more removed from nature now, when I lived in the city I wasn't about to take the three-hour bus ride to get to the woods so "nature" was practically an abstract concept, you forget how unforgiving and expansive it is. If more people spent more time in the woods, they'd see how "fragile" it is out there.

Maybe it's just fun, too. Our world is so comfortable and slow, we go to school, we go to work, we get married, we have children, we go on vacations, we get old, we die. It's dull, throw apocalypse fantasies in there and you've finally got some use for that strong, primal midbrain survival mechanism that yells "FIGHT! RUN! KILL KILL KILL!"

Any other theories?


Your ideas spring from a cozy room with your laptop on your lap. The world is a little bit beyond your thought's reach particularly if you have not travelled across your continental frontiers. Of course it is natural to see the world dull when glued to a few modern and sophisticated gadgets flooding your deluxe high-rise. But the scenes behind what you see are appalling. See tens of thousands of Indian farmers dying from starvation. Why it happens? It is the drought and sometimes it is flood. Every year some kind of calamity takes the lives of Bangladeshis who use reclaimed lands for their high degrees of fertility and sometimes it is the typhoon sweeping away everything.
Recently there was a large natural catastrophe in Nepal – the melting of ice that damaged innumerable crops and killed so many people.

Ecological imbalance is on the rise. This mainly happens when some insensitive materialists or capitalists recklessly damage the environment and but the price has to be paid by the people of the other hemisphere

Climate change has been a great issue. In many developing countries waterholes are drying up. This is happening due to the growing deforestation in some regions. Coal industry has poisoned the atmosphere. Some of the rarest floras, faunas and aerials are endangered
Health condition is deteriorating. Lead poisoning, radiation has been great threats to be would be born ones.

Haven't you heard about marine debris? Seas are getting empty of sea animals soon through acidification and aerials through ozone depletion

I wonder how you say the world is not getting a worse place to live in.

[tailor STATELY]

My faith has had prophets, seers, and revelators since about the mid-antebellum era of my country (U.S.A.). From The Articles of Faith ( http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,106-1-2-1,FF.html ) 6. "We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth." Our current President (Thomas S. Monson) is our Prophet, his two counselors, and twelve Apostles - are all ordained as prophets, seers, and revelators.

Twice a year our members have a General Conference where we get to watch/listen to talks by our General authorities (including prophets, seers, and revelators) by radio/TV/webcast. General Conference is the first week in October and the first week in April. Monthly/weekly we get talks on the web and in our church's news papers & magazines. Daily - I subscribe to Daily Gems for my email which are often snippets from talks by our General authorities (including prophets, seers, and revelators).

I was privileged to be in the presence of an Apostle (prophet, seer, and revelator) who is also a special witness for Christ) Saturday & Sunday 2-weeks ago in a conference setting (about 1500 in attendance on Sunday).

So, expecting a prophet ? Yes. I know I will receive their divine inspiration today, and tomorrow, and the next day....

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

It's just I doubt they discuss environmental issues very much in warzones, which would mean that they wouldn't apply when I said:

Which is what you were adressing when you asked the question. Violence in the middle east didn't apply to my post which you quoted regarding the whole Fightclub-esque boredom in the first world which is what often leads to apocalyptic fixation as a hobby (in two flavors: with zombies, or without), but it would be relevant to this thread in general if we go back to the OP; war is one of humanity's problems, but again, I don't think a "prophet" is going to somehow fix everything since many people took it upon themselves to kill people in their last prophet's name.
I get ya. I obviously don't backtrack in threads very much.

Your ideas spring from a cozy room with your laptop on your lap. The world is a little bit beyond your thought's reach particularly if you have not travelled across your continental frontiers. Of course it is natural to see the world dull when glued to a few modern and sophisticated gadgets flooding your deluxe high-rise. But the scenes behind what you see are appalling. See tens of thousands of Indian farmers dying from starvation. Why it happens? It is the drought and sometimes it is flood. Every year some kind of calamity takes the lives of Bangladeshis who use reclaimed lands for their high degrees of fertility and sometimes it is the typhoon sweeping away everything.
Recently there was a large natural catastrophe in Nepal – the melting of ice that damaged innumerable crops and killed so many people.

Ecological imbalance is on the rise. This mainly happens when some insensitive materialists or capitalists recklessly damage the environment and but the price has to be paid by the people of the other hemisphere

Climate change has been a great issue. In many developing countries waterholes are drying up. This is happening due to the growing deforestation in some regions. Coal industry has poisoned the atmosphere. Some of the rarest floras, faunas and aerials are endangered
Health condition is deteriorating. Lead poisoning, radiation has been great threats to be would be born ones.

Haven't you heard about marine debris? Seas are getting empty of sea animals soon through acidification and aerials through ozone depletion

I wonder how you say the world is not getting a worse place to live in.

In terms of humanity, what time can you name that was worse than the current one?

[Alexander III]

Am I the only one who thinks that we live more or less the same. yes before in Europe many faced famine and malnutrition and horrible lives. But then again many still live like that in the rest of the world. Everyone keeps saying we have better this and that and that, but no one accounts for the fact that we is only the west not the world.

But hey 300 years ago the bourgeois and nobility would say look at what we have, look at the science medicine lifestyle and how much better it all is. And the peasants lived like **** but not one cared because they were peasants. And now we say look at our science and medicine, but that is just the west. And the rest of the world lives like **** but we don't care because they are nigers and chinks.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I don't know. That the length of the average lifespan has changed so drasircially, even within the last hundred years, seems to combat the "the world is as good as it's ever been" mindset. True, lifespans in third world countries are much lower than those of first world, but I'd be interested to know if they've improved, also. I'm betting they have. The prosperous populations of today live longer than those of the past--it seems it would be the same for the poor. According to Wikipedia, the 2010 average life expectancy was 67 years. That's more than double than that of the early 20th century, though probably due mostly to a decrease in infant deaths.

[osho]

The apocalypse is predictable; sooner or later it happens. There are so many events symbolic of the day of reckoning, my friends. Today we are divided along so many streaks: racism seems to have been over and yet the displacement of it has another replacement by indoctrinated children in different nations. This is not simply environmental degradation we are coming up to, it is the humanitarian ruination. We are off track now and the centre is not holding us.

Biologically McCarthy's The Road may be a long way but sociologically we are in an eddy. Culturally we are coming apart. Living in an inchoate global village, in fact every society is at some kind of war – since there are commercial wars, racial wars, political wars, religious wars, civil wars and the like- I do not see we have a bright future.
I sound pessimist but there are so many reasons. When your next door people are suffering you can not keep on being on merrymaking. Something inside you responds and you will have to be part of the pain since we all humans are a single unified whole.

Maybe there were more deaths in the past and more people died from some today – curable diseases. The life span was shorter. But societies, families were closely knitted and there was a deeper bond amongst them. Today we live in a world of nuclear families, most in separations, kind of individuations. Today we are increasingly getting immune to anything external and while the next door never is dying we may take the incident indifferently and may be glued to our lustful affairs. We are getting off center and losing the traditional homogeneity that put us together over centuries.
That is why I am expecting a prophet who comes with a new philosophy, a new vision to blaze our path.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Prepare for disappointment.

[Alexander III]

The apocalypse is predictable; sooner or later it happens. There are so many events symbolic of the day of reckoning, my friends. Today we are divided along so many streaks: racism seems to have been over and yet the displacement of it has another replacement by indoctrinated children in different nations. This is not simply environmental degradation we are coming up to, it is the humanitarian ruination. We are off track now and the centre is not holding us.

Biologically McCarthy's The Road may be a long way but sociologically we are in an eddy. Culturally we are coming apart. Living in an inchoate global village, in fact every society is at some kind of war – since there are commercial wars, racial wars, political wars, religious wars, civil wars and the like- I do not see we have a bright future.
I sound pessimist but there are so many reasons. When your next door people are suffering you can not keep on being on merrymaking. Something inside you responds and you will have to be part of the pain since we all humans are a single unified whole.

Maybe there were more deaths in the past and more people died from some today – curable diseases. The life span was shorter. But societies, families were closely knitted and there was a deeper bond amongst them. Today we live in a world of nuclear families, most in separations, kind of individuations. Today we are increasingly getting immune to anything external and while the next door never is dying we may take the incident indifferently and may be glued to our lustful affairs. We are getting off center and losing the traditional homogeneity that put us together over centuries.
That is why I am expecting a prophet who comes with a new philosophy, a new vision to blaze our path.

Myabe instead of a new prophet you could just get a girlfriend. One week of regular fvcking and the world will seem all beautifull and perfect and you will look back at all those thoughts of before and realize how weird it all was.

[osho]

Prepare for disappointment.

Of course there is an air of disappointment and the world cannot go on like this and of course there must come an end to our decadent and degenerate mindsets. We are too much with consumption as if we are ready to swallow the planet earth. That is why I am expecting a prophet, a salvager and set order to the untoward goings-on. There is a ray of hope.

[osho]

Myabe instead of a new prophet you could just get a girlfriend. One week of regular fvcking and the world will seem all beautifull and perfect and you will look back at all those thoughts of before and realize how weird it all was.

But the act becomes nauseating in a while and you will lose the appetite and energy for it. You see the world too much occupied with fvcking thing is straying into ludicrousness, because the appetite never becomes gratified with one and the cravings for the multiples will turn you into the frivolous lover. Since you are living in a valueless world and age-old family values are going off center. That is why no matter how many girlfriends you roam with at the end of the day you will come out disgruntled

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

But the act becomes nauseating in a while and you will lose the appetite and energy for it. You see the world too much occupied with fvcking thing is straying into ludicrousness, because the appetite never becomes gratified with one and the cravings for the multiples will turn you into the frivolous lover. Since you are living in a valueless world and age-old family values are going off center. That is why no matter how many girlfriends you roam with at the end of the day you will come out disgruntled

Methinks if it becomes nauseating, you're not doing it right.

And he didn't say go out and **** a bunch of women. He said get a girlfriend.

[osho]

Most of what said here got misdirected from the mainstream of what was started off originally.

Some people humored some others could hit upon the theme of the topic. I do not mind whether you diverge or converge, my objective was to put across this thought.

I expected your assorted responses.

The only thought I had originally was we would expect someone to set an order of things in this world of disorderliness.

Whether having one girlfriend, or to have twosome or threesome or kind of having a polimorous relationship it is the same. Broken homes, straying children, and depressed and estranged human communities.

The Apocalypse is closing in on

I expect someone to correct it, some thought.

[Scheherazade]

~

W a r n i n g

If you are unable to show respect towards those who do not share your views,

please refrain from posting in this section of the Forum.

~

[osho]

I never wanted it to go that way, to be it deviatory, to veer off in this way from what I originally intended.

I am somewhat traumatically worried about the goings-on on a global scale everywhere. The center, our ideology, is not holding us. There are more things to be buoyant, some givens technologically and medically but man has in fact been lonelier than ever before.

Order, order, order, something we are desperately craving. We want to have an order of things everywhere. We must cohere to coexist. Man, the planet and the rest of beings inhabiting here must be in sync, living nonviolently and amicably.

With this in mind I am expecting a person in charge of the planet.

[Neo_Sephiroth]

I never wanted it to go that way, to be it deviatory, to veer off in this way from what I originally intended.

I am somewhat traumatically worried about the goings-on on a global scale everywhere. The center, our ideology, is not holding us. There are more things to be buoyant, some givens technologically and medically but man has in fact been lonelier than ever before.

Order, order, order, something we are desperately craving. We want to have an order of things everywhere. We must cohere to coexist. Man, the planet and the rest of beings inhabiting here must be in sync, living nonviolently and amicably.

With this in mind I am expecting a person in charge of the planet.

Hmmmm, interesting...In all seriousness, if you're expecting a prophet to provide this planet with order...What are you expecting that prophet to do? What are you expecting to happen?

Note, I'm not fighting or anything...Just curious and asking questions.

[osho]

Hmmmm, interesting...In all seriousness, if you're expecting a prophet to provide this planet with order...What are you expecting that prophet to do? What are you expecting to happen?

Note, I'm not fighting or anything...Just curious and asking questions.

I am expecting the prophet to embed order. This act may go miraculously. There are prophesies in different religions and I have already quoted one from the Bhagbad Gita. One of the things I expect the prophet to do is make us sensitive to Mother Earth and her earthlings. We are living sumptuously and the earth is going to be the worst place to live in. Maybe something mystical things have to happen and that may U-turn the course of nature. I do not know how strong man is to absorb the shock

[JuniperWoolf]

Your ideas spring from a cozy room with your laptop on your lap.

Get the **** away from my window, Blaze.


The world is a little bit beyond your thought's reach.

But it's not beyond yours? What makes your thoughts so much more "enlightened" than mine, the frantic ominous tone? Everybody should probably listen to you then, this is life and death! Is that the idea? No, you can't appeal to emotion when your views contradict reality.


See tens of thousands of Indian farmers dying from starvation.

Percent-wise, that's still a lot smaller than the chunk of the global population that was starving before modern agriculture practices.


It is the drought and sometimes it is flood. Every year some kind of calamity takes the lives of Bangladeshis who use reclaimed lands for their high degrees of fertility and sometimes it is the typhoon sweeping away everything.

There's always been drought and flood and calamity and typhoons. We're just better equipped to deal with them now. Also, the world's population is larger so when disaster strikes more individuals die numerically, but less people die percentage wise. Plus, better tech = more exposure = more charity.


Ecological imbalance is on the rise.

No it isn't, it's not "more" imbalanced or "less" imbalanced, that doesn't make sense. More imbalanced than when, during the great extinctions? The Jurassic Period? The most recent ice age? The biosphere has always been changing and always will be. For example, the fluid layers of the earth, the mantle, they're cooling very slowly. This has been, and will continue to, change the way the biosphere functions in ways that we can't predict. As new species develop and old ones become extinct, the biosphere changes and we can't tell how that's going to happen. As the temperature of the world changes (and remember, we've had at least five major ice ages including one just ten thousand years ago) it all changes, our lifestyles change with it along with those of every other animal on earth because species adapt and these changes are innumerable and continuously ongoing. Some thing are seem by us as improvements and some things get much worse, but you can't predict it. Cause and effect in the biosphere is more inticate than anything you can imagine, if you tug on one string it changes everything in ways that no one can see coming. In this, we have very little control.

So, with that in mind, pretending that you "know" that the world is going to end, and the oceans are going to cease to contain life, and all of the birds and plants are going to die (which, by the way, has happened in one form or another at least five times, and the biosphere is still kicking), and everything in the future is going to be suffering and hellfire is dishonest and also kind of a dick move because you're trying to scare people into listening to you.


Health condition is deteriorating. Lead poisoning, radiation has been great threats to be would be born ones.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone was a lot healthier before modern medicine and agriculture which produces much more food using much less land. That's even reflected in the change in human life expectancy. Oh, wait...


Am I the only one who thinks that we live more or less the same. yes before in Europe many faced famine and malnutrition and horrible lives. But then again many still live like that in the rest of the world. Everyone keeps saying we have better this and that and that, but no one accounts for the fact that we is only the west not the world.

The difference is that now there's a larger chunk of the human population which isn't suffering so much that they can't flourish. The "peasants" don't really exist anymore, now my mother could have been a Wal Mart employee and I could have grown up going to public school and practicing the violin and one day I could end up playing with the New York Philharmonic despite my lineage. The pond is a lot bigger when more people have enough to eat and enough education to realize their inborn potential, so the best have to be better (there are more fish, more competition, so the "biggest fish" has to be massive), and everyone benefits from that.

If you were to ask people in the 1700's whether or not it was possible for almost everyone in the Western World to have sufficient food, clothing, healthcare and free time to "make something of themselves" (or whatever) they would have said that no, it isn't possible. Now we've done that, and now "peasants" often become great (significantly more lower-middle class than upper class people have written classics, created beautiful films and beatiful music in the last century). So, maybe we can get to the point where everyone is fed, clothed and healthy, all of our population, for everyone to spend their free time doing what they like and adding to this sort of "inheretance" for the humans yet to be born (music, literature, philosophy, comedy, film, science, recreation, discovery, ect.).


Of course there is an air of disappointment and the world cannot go on like this and of course there must come an end to our decadent and degenerate mindsets.

:rolleyes: Jesus Christ, it sounds like you want the entire human race to commit suicide. Do yourself a favor osho: go outside, sit in a garden, listen to some Vivaldi, drink a nice iced vodka in lemonade, read some Byron or maybe Marvell, then go smoke some weed and watch a great film or maybe go to a museum, have wild sex with a girl that you really like. In short: lighten up.

:edit: Haha, I just read above and saw that Alex gave similar advice.


But the act becomes nauseating in a while and you will lose the appetite and energy for it.

Right, you're the one who made the thread in which you postulated that love doesn't even exist, weren't you? See, you don't get it.

[osho]

Let us refrain from driving the thread polemically and in fact I cherish everybody's ideas here. I do not want you to blow your own horn about pedantic thoughts. This is trash. Come out of your cocooned self-centeredness and feel that we are all on a learning plane.

All of us want things to be better and it is human nature to improve on the present. Nobody wants to be where he or she is and there is an idea of paradise, though mythical. The world is going off-center and of course we have victories over some aspects and on other counts we have been losers.

This is a not a slanted discussion we are friends. The discussion makes us hot and the heat will go off in a while.

Let us be cool. That is how we can expect a prophet and let us make the arrival a ceremony.

[JuniperWoolf]

I do not want you to blow your own horn about pedantic thoughts. This is trash. Come out of your cocooned self-centeredness and feel that we are all on a learning plane.

Haha. Er, yeah... way to take the high road.

[osho]

Haha. Er, yeah... way to take the high road.

Now you seem to have reconciled with yourself. After all this has little to do with antagonism. This world is divided between optimism and pessimism. We all are siding with one or the other. With that said, however everyone has buckets of optimisms and pessimisms since life is not a bed of roses alone. Man takes less care about the impending. The US is recuperating from a big recession and the entire Euro zone is canting "Austerity". They have spent beyond their means and lived on debts up to their necks.

We are becoming unscrupulous consuming animals.

The prophet to come will urge us to be somewhat austere

[Neo_Sephiroth]

I am expecting the prophet to embed order. This act may go miraculously. There are prophesies in different religions and I have already quoted one from the Bhagbad Gita. One of the things I expect the prophet to do is make us sensitive to Mother Earth and her earthlings. We are living sumptuously and the earth is going to be the worst place to live in. Maybe something mystical things have to happen and that may U-turn the course of nature. I do not know how strong man is to absorb the shock

Thank you kindly for replying to my questions, Osho. I hope you don't mind if there's more to come...Like now. :D

I can see that this world is not the greatest place right now. Although Yosemite is pretty nice...:)

However, the views on this subject are all different because of perspectives. I can see that it's not as great a place but I can also see many goods in this world as well. Good people doing good and worthwhile deeds.

Anyway, I might be off the main topic a bit so lets get back on the subject of prophet.

So you're expecting a prophet...Is there a certain prophecy about this? Or are you gathering from a number of prophecies and coming up with your own conclusion? Because I know there are many different religion out there with prophecies about prophets. That's why I'm asking.

[blazeofglory]

I think soho's Point is very illuminating. There are prejudices with people and they want assert themselves and highlight their points even if they are wrong.

In fact we all are expecting a prpophet and we want the one who can lead the way. Today we want haremony to bring about coexistence in this word since we are landing on the edge and we are in a precarious state.

Today we have archived immensely materially and yet we are increasingly becoming more miserable than ever a before.

We want someone to heal us

Maybea the new prophet's idea will bet religiously followed by all

Order is all what we want

Most of us live in broken families. There are all kinds of problems, economic, social, political and the like. It seems every one is in conflict with every other waging a kind of war. We want an exit.

The planet is really a beauaftiful place to live in and with all pants and animals we can coexist In harmony..

That was the messgae Osho wants to give.

[JuniperWoolf]

Fine, you just hunker down and wait for some mystical being to come save you from all of this affluence and security.

"Order" and "harmony" of the plant and animal world, huh?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/367052345_1c17a7b102.jpg

[blazeofglory]

There is violence in nature and there is violence in society too. In nature one animal kills the other for food or to sustain its life. There is no civi war in nature that killed more than 700000 people in the American civil war. Animals did not wage wars in the degree of the two world wars. Animals never could set a fire on the twin tower. You cannot think about the deepness of violence in nature like the recent Syrian massacre that killed so many innocent children and adults. There could not be a Hitler in nature. You cannot imagine of the kind of the Hindu Muslim conflict in nature. No tigers or leopards were ever born to kill millions and millions of people for a cause

There is much more balance in nature than what we see in human society.

[Alexander III]

The planet is really a beauaftiful place to live in and with all pants and animals we can coexist In harmony..

That was the messgae Osho wants to give.

Maybe he should have informed nature first as it didn't seem to get the memo -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/09/sex-depravity-penguins-scott-antarctic

[JuniperWoolf]

Imagine David Attenborough narrating that. "Injured females are mounted by members of these penguin gangs, others have their chicks misused before the very eyes of its parents. Some chicks are crushed and injured, others are killed." Soothing.

And animals never wage war (http://smellslikescience.com/chimpanzee-warfare/) either.

The reason why animals don't fly airplanes into buldings or shoot each other (and the reason why they don't donate to charity or create great works of art) is because they lack opposable thumbs and cognative capacity, not because they choose to be that way, or because they're naturally more "peaceful." Shark babies have to eat their own brothers and sisters inside of their mother's uterus. Some parasites take over the mind of their host and force them to commit suicide. The animal world isn't always soft and cuddly, it's often cruel and disgusting. Humans are animals, all of our traits are reflected in the animal kingdom, we're a part of the biosphere and we evolved within it's systems. As such, we are also capable of BOTH compassion and horror: it's simply on a much larger scale, because we're smarter and as such, are capable of more.

[blazeofglory]

we are also capable of BOTH compassion and horror:

I agree with you humans are capable of both compassion and horror. In fact today our capacity for compassion is taken over by our capacity for horror.

In fact today the 1 % looting the rest 99 % speaks amply of this fact.

Today people are preparing for a more dangerous war than ever before.

Compassion is there in the human heart but horror, cruelness is more manifest.

[Scheherazade]

~

W a r n i n g

Please do not personalise your arguments.

If you feel you are unable to show respect towards who do not share your views, refrain from taking part in discussions.

~

[Alexander III]

I agree with you humans are capable of both compassion and horror. In fact today our capacity for compassion is taken over by our capacity for horror.

In fact today the 1 % looting the rest 99 % speaks amply of this fact.


As opposed to the good old days ?

Besides, that is merely social hierarchy, I am not saying it is just, but within society and for it to function, it will inevitably and logically end up as such. Society is designed that way. It is merely a reflection of the natural order in nature. In nature only one out of many survives, it is a race for the top and it is ruthless - but said system ensures the survival of a species, by making sure that only the best live and the mediocre and the weak die out. Human society is just a less dangerous mirror of nature. Instead of dying, the weak merely live less pleasant lives.


Today people are preparing for a more dangerous war than ever before.

Meh, the first day of the somme, 35,000 men died - not injured and the died in the hospital, 35,000 outright dead in a day. And many thousands upon thousands injured which would latter die in hospital and thousands upon thousands left crippled for life. In one sunny summer day.

Pray do tell what is this war more dangerous than ever before ?


Compassion is there in the human heart but horror, cruelness is more manifest.

Sure take a philosophical question which has been debated over for thousands of years by the finest minds of mankind, and has been acknowledged to be unanswerable - and give it an answer.