Ted Hughes

[LitNetIsGreat]

Anybody like Ted Hughes? I'm just reading over my selected Ted Hughes at present and think I might be finally getting more into Hughes. I've always been somewhat neutral in regards to his work but I think he is beginning to grow on me.

Quite by coincidence I've suddenly got back into fishing after about a 18 years and just stumbled upon this quote by Hughes:


Fishing provides that connection with the whole living world. It gives you the opportunity of being totally immersed, turning back into yourself in a good way. A form of meditation, some form of communion with levels of yourself that are deeper than the ordinary self.

Wow, I was just saying the same thing about meditation and fishing to someone at work the other day. Anyway, Ted Hughes?

The Jaguar

The apes yawn and adore their fleas in the sun.
The parrots shriek as if they were on fire, or strut
Like cheap tarts to attract the stroller with the nut.
Fatigued with indolence, tiger and lion

Lie still as the sun. The boa-constrictor’s coil
Is a fossil. Cage after cage seems empty, or
Stinks of sleepers from the breathing straw.
It might be painted on a nursery wall.

But who runs like the rest past these arrives
At a cage where the crowd stands, stares, mesmerized,
As a child at a dream, at a jaguar hurrying enraged
Through prison darkness after the drills of his eyes

On a short fierce fuse. Not in boredom—
The eye satisfied to be blind in fire,
By the bang of blood in the brain deaf the ear—
He spins from the bars, but there’s no cage to him

More than to the visionary his cell:
His stride is wildernesses of freedom:
The world rolls under the long thrust of his heel.
Over the cage floor the horizons come.

Ted Hughes

[Paulclem]

Ted Hughes is great. I like The Jaguar, and though we're supposed to admire it in its obliviousness, and we do, I find it a very sad poem.

I like The Thought Fox

http://www.richardwebster.net/tedhughes.html

[LitNetIsGreat]

Ted Hughes is great. I like The Jaguar, and though we're supposed to admire it in its obliviousness, and we do, I find it a very sad poem.

I like The Thought Fox

http://www.richardwebster.net/tedhughes.html

Yes I suppose there is a sadness there even if the Jaguar cannot be entrapped by mankind.

The Thought Fox appears right at the start of my collection of Hughes.

Hawk Roosting is another one which is similar to that of The Jaguar:

http://www.poemhunter.com/best-poems/ted-hughes/hawk-roosting/

I am at war with myself whether there are grounds to see in the Hawk an extended metaphor of man and/or the conservative ideology. Maybe I'm just pushing the last line "I am going to keep things like this" a little too far, ha?

[tonywalt]

I think that Ted Hughes meant it to be about nature, or I should say that it is what he said he meant.

I would take it as a metaphor about the arrogance of Man's power and authoritarianism. You could replace the Hawk with the thoughts of a dictator and it would interchange perfectly.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I think that Ted Hughes meant it to be about nature, or I should say that it is what he said he meant.

I would take it as a metaphor about the arrogance of Man's power and authoritarianism. You could replace the Hawk with the thoughts of a dictator and it would interchange perfectly.

Yes Hughes greatly admired Hawks I think they were his favourite animal if I remember rightly.

I think it is largely a nature poem but there is something there of the dictator, I think that's a better way of putting it than I did. He sits on top of the food chain, cruelly controlling things, keeping things as they are with no sophistry in his thoughts.

[tonywalt]

His Birthday Letters were commercially driven and a bit sentimental, but some good things in there:

Every night
I slept on that mattress, under one
blanket,
With a lovely girl. . .
Yet never once made love. . .
It never seemed unnatural. I was
focused,

So locked onto you. . .

Everything that was not you was

blind-spot

I still puzzle over it - doubtful, now,

Whether to envy myself, or pity.



(from Fidelity)

[prendrelemick]

One of my most treasured possessions is a signed and dedicated copy of "Moortown Diary" Hughes gave me after a short film about one of his poems (Wind) was filmed at our farm.

As a boy he spent a lot of his time out in the countryside around here with his brother. On one occasion when he was camping in one of our fields, he looked up and saw some horses on the skyline at dawn and felt moved. He later described that place as sacred and said everything he later became stems from that moment. He was about 6 at the time.

Anyway you can count me as a fan. I was a fan long before I met him. Moortown Diary was like reading about my own experiences and feelings.

[Paulclem]

One of my most treasured possessions is a signed and dedicated copy of "Moortown Diary" Hughes gave me after a short film about one of his poems (Wind) was filmed at our farm.

As a boy he spent a lot of his time out in the countryside around here with his brother. On one occasion when he was camping in one of our fields, he looked up and saw two horses on the skyline at dusk and felt moved. He later described that place as sacred and said everything he later became stems from that moment. He was about 6 at the time.

Anyway you can count me as a fan. I was a fan long before I met him. Moortown Diary was like reading about my own experiences and feelings.

That's a fantastic link you've got there Mick.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yes great stuff. I wonder if he had in mind that moment when he wrote The Horses?

The Horses:
http://www.ouce.ox.ac.uk/~rwashing/research/twos/poems.html

Another great piece. Admittedly though it also reminded me of the Guinness advert!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9znA_dwjHw

I've always thought that there was something very majestic about the horse.

[prendrelemick]

I have been told it was .

I don't know if you have read a biography of Ted Hughes, but the name Donald Crossley will be in the acknowledgements somewhere. He was a childhood friend of Hughes who I know quite well. He has been helping Gerald Hughes (Ted's brother) with a biography that will be out in September.

Ted was camping with Gerald when he saw the Horses, and Donald tracked down the place where it happened, using Gerald's memories. It was Gerald who told him it was a sacred place and moment in Ted's life, one that he never forgot.

This line seems to confirm it.

In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces,
May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place.

The whole poem is a example of his "other kind" of poem, a narrative of an adventure, where you feel to be there with him as he discovers and is awed by nature.

[OrphanPip]

I seem to recall we had a somewhat extensive discussion of the Thought Fox somewhere on lit net before, was it in the poem of the week thread?

[LitNetIsGreat]

I have been told it was .

I don't know if you have read a biography of Ted Hughes, but the name Donald Crossley will be in the acknowledgements somewhere. He was a childhood friend of Hughes who I know quite well. He has been helping Gerald Hughes (Ted's brother) with a biography that will be out in September.

Ted was camping with Gerald when he saw the Horses, and Donald tracked down the place where it happened, using Gerald's memories. It was Gerald who told him it was a sacred place and moment in Ted's life, one that he never forgot.

This line seems to confirm it.

In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces,
May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place.

The whole poem is a example of his "other kind" of poem, a narrative of an adventure, where you feel to be there with him as he discovers and is awed by nature.

I haven't but I'm going to shortly as I bet that it would be a really interesting read. I'm going to look for it later today and keep my eye open for the one out in September, thanks for the idea. Interesting last thought about nature and connecting with him.


I seem to recall we had a somewhat extensive discussion of the Thought Fox somewhere on lit net before, was it in the poem of the week thread?

Oh that is what it must have been. I thought there was a thread on Ted Hughes but I couldn't find one.

[prendrelemick]

Hawk Roosting is probably his best known poem and is stunning. The hawk is the pinnacle of creation - more than that - the purpose of all of creation is to be there for his use. It's all about him.
I disagree with Tony, I don't think it has any relation to the human world at all. The Hawk is neither moral or immoral it needs to offer no explanation, it just is.


My personal favourite Hughes poem is "Work and Play". Taken as a whole it is a bit trite and simple, comparing the swallow at work with people at play. But the imagery of the swallow is marvellous, he captures not only the bird, but the lift of the heart you get (I get) when you see one.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Hawk Roosting is probably his best known poem and is stunning. The hawk is the pinnacle of creation - more than that - the purpose of all of creation is to be there for his use. It's all about him.
I disagree with Tony, I don't think it has any relation to the human world at all. The Hawk is neither moral or immoral it needs to offer no explanation, it just is.


I don't think Tony's reading, or mine, is that it relates to the human world particularly, just that the hawk shares some common themes with the dictator figure. He did point out that Hughes meant it to be a poem about nature and I wouldn't disagree with that at all, especially in light of similar poems like The Jaguar, An Otter, The Horses and one that I think is wonderful - The Bull Moses!!! All of these clearly worship the individual animal and bring us closer to them, political comparisons are not part of it really, but I still think there are some parallels between the Hawk and the dictator figure to a degree, even if it is somewhat coincidental. It is also interesting that Hawk Roosting has been placed within the Conflict section of the AQA syllabus where all the other poems relate to war and terrorism or the victims of this. Clearly they are reading into the poem a political narrative as well, but yes overall I (and Tony I think) are not in disagreement with you by placing it primarily as nature poem full-stop.

I ordered the biography of Hughes which should come Monday.

I don't have 'work and play' but I have found it here:
http://www.poemhunter.com/best-poems/ted-hughes/work-and-play/

The Bull Moses is probabally my favourite piece so far I think. I can't find it online for anyone interested. It is from Lupercal if you have it.

[TheFifthElement]

I love Ted Hughes! His poetry has such a viceral, 'red in tooth and claw' feel to it. A poetry reading group I recently joined on Facebook is looking to read Crow as its first book.

Not from Crow, however, this is one of my favourites:



Bride and Groom Lie Hidden for Three Days

She gives him his eyes, she found them
Among some rubble, among some beetles

He gives her her skin
He just seemed to pull it down out of the air and lay it over her
She weeps with fearfulness and astonishment

She has found his hands for him, and fitted them freshly at the
wrists
They are amazed at themselves, they go feeling all over her

He has assembled her spine, he cleaned each piece carefully
And sets them in perfect order
A superhuman puzzle but he is inspired
She leans back twisting this way and that,
using it and laughing, incredulous

Now she has brought his feet, she is connecting them
So that his whole body lights up

And he has fashioned her new hips
With all fittings complete and with newly wound coils, all
shiningly oiled
He is polishing every part, he himself can hardly believe it

They keep taking each other to the sun, they find they can easily
To test each new thing at each new step

And now she smooths over him the plates of his skull
So that the joints are invisible
And now he connects her throat,
her breasts and the pit of her stomach
With a single wire

She gives him his teeth, tying their roots
to the centrepin of his body

He sets the little circlets on her fingertips

She stitches his body here and there with steely purple silk

He oils the delicate cogs of her mouth

She inlays with deep-cut scrolls the nape of his neck

He sinks into place inside of her thighs

So, gasping with joy, with cries of wonderment
Like two gods of mud
Sprawling in the dirt, but with infinite care

They bring each other to perfection.

[prendrelemick]

Fifth. Thats one I haven't seen before. A very sexy poem though. They are creating each other as they make love. It reminds me of something E B Browning said about never really existing until she married Robert.


I'd be interested to know what you like about The Bull Moses. For me once again, he seems to be relating an experience of my own, looking into a bulls eye as a boy. I find that often happens with Hughes' earlier stuff.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Fifth. Thats one I haven't seen before. A very sexy poem though. They are creating each other as they make love. It reminds me of something E B Browning said about never really existing until she married Robert.


I'd be interested to know what you like about The Bull Moses. For me once again, he seems to be relating an experience of my own, looking into a bulls eye as a boy. I find that often happens with Hughes' earlier stuff.

I just find it so vivid and alive. For example in the following lines:

...But the warm weight of his breathing,
The ammoniac reek of his litter, the hotly-tongued
Mash of his cud, steamed against me.

Hughes also gives the bull a quiet sense of majesty in his leisurely ways:

In the locked black of his powers. He came strolling gently back,
Paused neither toward the pig-pens on his right,
Nor toward the cow-byres on his left: something
Deliberate in his leisure, some beheld future
Founding in his quiet.

There is an obvious respect towards the creature which I find quiet touching, but it is that vivid scene of the boy leaning over describing the scent of the bull that's just great - "The ammoniac reek of his litter, the hotly-tongued/Mash of his cud, steamed against me," steamed there is particularly useful I find.

"Pike" is another good one. I can certainly relate to these from fishing for them as a younger kid. The first stanza:

Pike, three inches long, perfect
Pike in all parts, green tigering the gold.
Killers from the egg: the malevolent aged grin.
They dance on the surface among the flies.

That "malevolent aged grin" and the "green tigering the gold" is well done. There are countless other examples from several of his poems too.

The biography came today which I have just started until "jobs" got in the way. I'm going back to it in a bit and alternating between that and the poems.

[LitNetIsGreat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuY-7AA1ebY&feature=related
Here's Ted Hughes briefly explaining about The Thought Fox and reading the poem. It is also covered in his biography.

I have always like Hughes' reading of poetry. I once had a collection of his, By Heart, 100 poems to learn by heart or something like that on CD or tape, I don't know where that ended up but it was good.

[prendrelemick]

Have you Birthday Letters? That is a very significant collection I think. It commemerates, explains and documents his relationship with Plath.

After her suicide he was blamed for her death - particularly by The Feminist movement. Her Gravestone was constantly defaced (she is buried in this parish) by having the "Hughes" name chiselled off. (Read "The Dogs Are Eating Your Mother" from BL ) He was portrayed as an uncaring brute, and refused to defend himself. I think there is a strong case that he prolonged her life through the relationship, she had tried suicide before, but who can say.

Anyway, Birthday Letters ended his silence on the affair and effectively answered most of his critics. It is a collection of poems written over twenty five years, nearly all adressed to Plath. It is intimate and candid and recounts moments of happiness and tenderness, bleakness and despair. Of course it is all written from Hughes' point-of-view, but he is a poet first and foremost and an honest one I think.

What I would like to do is to read a good Life and Works of Plath and refer to Birthday Letters at the same time, just to see what she was producing at this time.


EDIT: By the way, which biography have you got?

[Twitter]

Relax, I think we all know what you and Tony think, you and Tony, you and Tony. His Majesty isn't offended - THIS time. So watch it, pal. Plenty of extra licking next time to keep him cozy.

[mal4mac]

I thought his translation of Aeschylus' Oresteia was very powerful, and compact.

Compare his:

She speaks like a man.
We have proof enough
To thank the gods.
At last we can rejoice.
Zeus, high God.

To an (anonymous) literal translation:

Lady, you speak as wisely as a prudent man. And, for my part, now that I have listened to your certain proofs, I prepare to address due prayers of thanksgiving to the gods; for a success has been achieved that well repays the toil.

Note how Hughes trusts the reader - we can guess "prudent" is intended. Also, he chops excess verbiage ("And, for my part....") Succinct and powerful rules!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Have you Birthday Letters? That is a very significant collection I think. It commemerates, explains and documents his relationship with Plath.

After her suicide he was blamed for her death - particularly by The Feminist movement. Her Gravestone was constantly defaced (she is buried in this parish) by having the "Hughes" name chiselled off. (Read "The Dogs Are Eating Your Mother" from BL ) He was portrayed as an uncaring brute, and refused to defend himself. I think there is a strong case that he prolonged her life through the relationship, she had tried suicide before, but who can say.

Anyway, Birthday Letters ended his silence on the affair and effectively answered most of his critics. It is a collection of poems written over twenty five years, nearly all adressed to Plath. It is intimate and candid and recounts moments of happiness and tenderness, bleakness and despair. Of course it is all written from Hughes' point-of-view, but he is a poet first and foremost and an honest one I think.

What I would like to do is to read a good Life and Works of Plath and refer to Birthday Letters at the same time, just to see what she was producing at this time.


EDIT: By the way, which biography have you got?

Yes I know all about the Birthday Letters, but unfortunately my collection doesn't include any from it. I nearly bought it yesterday actually, but ended up ordering a mammoth W H Auden as that is what I plan on reading next.

The biography I'm reading is written by Elaine Feinstein. I'm about halfway through it as I am with the poems. I wasn't as keen on Crow (1970) as a collection - I've just never taken to Hughes' Crow poems. Lupercal (1956) has been my favourite collection so far. Poems from Lupercal I enjoyed include Pike, Hawk Roosting, The Bull Moses, View of a Pig and An Otter. I'm currently reading from Remains of Elmet (1979) and then Moortown Diary (1989) which is the one you mentioned last week.

I also watched the film Sylvia last night which I'd seen before a while back. It struck me as very anti-Hughes though I must say.

[prendrelemick]

I have that biography.

I think he took a step far beyond my ability to understand with Crow. Also I seem to remember he never really finished it properly.

If you are reading the Remains of Elmet with the photos by Fay Godwin, there is a picture of one of our sheep in it - with two lambs by a broken wall. As for the poetry, I read it so long ago I can't remember much - a bad sign.

I really hope you like Moortown, it is probably the first poetry I ever felt a connection to as an adult.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Damn you keep throwing in these great connections! My collection though doesn't include all the poems from each release, only the main ones, 300+ pages, so I don't have your sheep in there unfortunately.

Yes the crow stuff I find difficult. I am almost starting the Moortown Diary collection, which I am looking forward to and hoping it will be more like his earlier stuff. Elmet I have found is so/so at best - of course this is just a personal view on it, I'm not speaking as a great poetic critic, I'm just going on my personal taste, even so I don't think it is his best by a long shot. From a selfish point of view, I just wish he would have stuck to nature which is where I think he is best, or at least this is what I like best.

Just looking at Moortown, my collection only has 12 poems in from it! Duh. I need another collection.

[prendrelemick]

I thought his translation of Aeschylus' Oresteia was very powerful, and compact.

Compare his:

She speaks like a man.
We have proof enough
To thank the gods.
At last we can rejoice.
Zeus, high God.

To an (anonymous) literal translation:

Lady, you speak as wisely as a prudent man. And, for my part, now that I have listened to your certain proofs, I prepare to address due prayers of thanksgiving to the gods; for a success has been achieved that well repays the toil.

Note how Hughes trusts the reader - we can guess "prudent" is intended. Also, he chops excess verbiage ("And, for my part....") Succinct and powerful rules!

I have only read a very small amount of his translations. It was so long ago that I in my ignorance thought they were original works and remember wondering what it was all about. :p From the above you can see his influence on Seamus Heany.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I've finished reading my Ted Hughes collection. Overall I found a lot to be pleased about, especially the nature poems. Some of these I really enjoyed. I wasn't too fused by some of his more obscurer pieces, but overall I will return to Hughes again for sure.

[prendrelemick]

A bit of an update here. I've just read this interview with Olwyn Hughes - Ted's sister. There is some interesting stuff about Sylvia Plath.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jan/18/olwyn-hughes-sylvia-plath-literary-executor?CMP=twt_gu

[Simon K-S]

Hi -

Would it be OK to quote this? I'm writing a book on language, in which Ted Hughes will play a fair sized part - with, I hope, at least some chance of eventual publication. The working title is 'Strong Language'.

'Wind' is a great poem. Is the film on Youtube?

Please get back to me if you want any more detail on what I'm doing.

Best wishes

Simon

[LitNetIsGreat]

Hi -

Would it be OK to quote this? I'm writing a book on language, in which Ted Hughes will play a fair sized part - with, I hope, at least some chance of eventual publication. The working title is 'Strong Language'.

'Wind' is a great poem. Is the film on Youtube?

Please get back to me if you want any more detail on what I'm doing.

Best wishes

Simon

Hi, what do you want to quote exactly? I don't mind if it is anything I've mentioned but you'd have to check with the others if you want to include their comments and obviously we don't own the links, so you'll have to check the source for those as well.

I'm not sure if the wind is on Youtube, just try a general search and you might find it.

Good luck with your project.

[Simon K-S]

Hi, thanks for getting back to me. This is the first time I've tried to use any kind of online forum, and I'm struggling a little. I meant to send the message to Prendrelmick. Here is the quote:

'As a boy he spent a lot of his time out in the countryside around here with his brother. On one occasion when he was camping in one of our fields, he looked up and saw some horses on the skyline at dawn and felt moved. He later described that place as sacred and said everything he later became stems from that moment. He was about six at the time.'

And here's my (draft) footnote:

'From a posting on Literature Network Forums ... . There is no reference to this incident in Poetry in the Making, or anywhere else I've come across, but it rings true when set against other reminiscences.'

Best wishes

Simon

[prendrelemick]

Hi Simon. The horse thing was told to me by Donald Crossley who was a childhood friend of Hughes' and is the go to man on anything about him round here. (He appears in all the biographies) so basically it's hearsay.


Donald spent years trying to find the location of the horses, and with the help of Ted's brother had settled on our field. This obviously was after Ted's death.

The "Sacred Place" I believe was a Hughes quote. All this was told to me by Donald, I don't know if he has put it in print anywhere, but I will check next time I see him (next church Quiz night.)

Edit: found this at http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/articles/2009/07/23/donald_crossley_feature.shtml


It is perhaps in a letter to Donald written in 1985 that we discover the roots of Hughes' poetry. Thinking back to his childhood years in Mytholmroyd, Hughes writes: "I think a lot about those days. I can even remember odd bits of things we said and scores of little happenings." In the same letter he talks about a camping trip with his brother Gerald: "It was in Crimsworth Dean, camping on that level first. Beside what's now a council stone dump under a little cliff beside the lane going up, in around 1937 or earlier, that I had the dream that turned later into all my writing. A sacred space for me."

That's the place I was referring to, The Horses connection he mentioned to me verbaly. perhaps you could get a copy of the Elmet Trust booklet mentioned.

[Simon K-S]

That's great, thanks. The story feels like it must be true. I'll maybe just cite it as hearsay, with no attribution.

And thanks for the link.

Best wishes

Simon