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miyako73
05-19-2012, 03:48 PM
Can we really come up with an objective reading of a poem without considering its author's politics or ideology? Writers are thinking social animals. Is there no subtext of sociality in a poem? Gender is a social construct. Are queer writers not political or socially conscious in their emotional and sexual same-sex writings?

Take this poem by Neruda as an example. It is obviously a critique on capitalism. Can we really deny its sociality, ideology, and politics? Again, no argument please, only healthy discussion.



The United Fruit Co.

When the trumpet sounded, it was
all prepared on the earth,
the Jehovah parcelled out the earth
to Coca Cola, Inc., Anaconda,
Ford Motors, and other entities:
The Fruit Company, Inc.
reserved for itself the most succulent,
the central coast of my own land,
the delicate waist of America.
It rechristened its territories
as the ’Banana Republics’
and over the sleeping dead,
over the restless heroes
who brought about the greatness,
the liberty and the flags,
it established the comic opera:
abolished the independencies,
presented crowns of Caesar,
unsheathed envy, attracted
the dictatorship of the flies,
Trujillo flies, Tacho flies,
Carias flies, Martines flies,
Ubico flies, damp flies
of modest blood and marmalade,
drunken flies who zoom
over the ordinary graves,
circus flies, wise flies
well trained in tyranny.

Among the blood-thirsty flies
the Fruit Company lands its ships,
taking off the coffee and the fruit;
the treasure of our submerged
territories flow as though
on plates into the ships.

Meanwhile Indians are falling
into the sugared chasms
of the harbours, wrapped
for burials in the mist of the dawn:
a body rolls, a thing
that has no name, a fallen cipher,
a cluster of the dead fruit
thrown down on the dump.

Pablo Neruda

cafolini
05-19-2012, 06:38 PM
Can we really come up with an objective reading of a poem without considering its author's politics or ideology? Writers are thinking social animals. Is there no subtext of sociality in a poem? Gender is a social construct. Are queer writers not political or socially conscious in their emotional and sexual same-sex writings?

Take this poem by Neruda as an example. It is obviously a critique on capitalism. Can we really deny its sociality, ideology, and politics? Again, no argument please.



The United Fruit Co.

When the trumpet sounded, it was
all prepared on the earth,
the Jehovah parcelled out the earth
to Coca Cola, Inc., Anaconda,
Ford Motors, and other entities:
The Fruit Company, Inc.
reserved for itself the most succulent,
the central coast of my own land,
the delicate waist of America.
It rechristened its territories
as the ’Banana Republics’
and over the sleeping dead,
over the restless heroes
who brought about the greatness,
the liberty and the flags,
it established the comic opera:
abolished the independencies,
presented crowns of Caesar,
unsheathed envy, attracted
the dictatorship of the flies,
Trujillo flies, Tacho flies,
Carias flies, Martines flies,
Ubico flies, damp flies
of modest blood and marmalade,
drunken flies who zoom
over the ordinary graves,
circus flies, wise flies
well trained in tyranny.

Among the blood-thirsty flies
the Fruit Company lands its ships,
taking off the coffee and the fruit;
the treasure of our submerged
territories flow as though
on plates into the ships.

Meanwhile Indians are falling
into the sugared chasms
of the harbours, wrapped
for burials in the mist of the dawn:
a body rolls, a thing
that has no name, a fallen cipher,
a cluster of the dead fruit
thrown down on the dump.

Pablo Neruda

We have similar points of view. I agree. "No argument, please," is the least to ask.
I love your quote from Carlos Fuentes, who passed away very recently.

JBI
05-19-2012, 07:21 PM
Yes you can, easily, you just ignore it. You can do whatever you want, should you is an ideological question.

Personally, the best poems transcend their authors.

miyako73
05-19-2012, 07:33 PM
Is ignoring its existence the same as denying that it exists?

stuntpickle
05-20-2012, 12:14 AM
Personally, the best poems transcend their authors.

A divinely misplaced modifier.

Polednice
05-24-2012, 07:32 PM
What's meant by an "objective" reading exactly?

Pierre Menard
05-24-2012, 10:06 PM
I'm a capitalist to the bone...but I plan to read Neruda in the future.

What do you mean by objective? If you mean, 'can we enjoy it without caring that it offers a different opinion to your own' then yes, absolutely. I mean, if I were to only enjoy things that I agreed with...I'd be depriving myself of a couple thousand years worth of literature.

Or did you mean something else?

miyako73
05-24-2012, 10:29 PM
Objective reading - reading what is in the text, which is the intent of the author.

Polednice
05-24-2012, 10:42 PM
Objective reading - reading what is in the text, which is the intent of the author.

Well, I'm not sure if we could reach a completely objective reading, but I would certainly say that such a reading as you define it would be impossible with considering the author's social and political ideologies.

Mutatis-Mutandis
05-24-2012, 11:11 PM
Objective reading - reading what is in the text, which is the intent of the author.

Not for every author.

OrphanPip
05-25-2012, 01:04 AM
Bringing in context can often be useful for understanding the work of an artist, but it's often not necessary, and sometimes it is simply not productive to do so.

I look at a poem like "The Shield of Achilles," and I don't know what relevant analysis about it could be drawn from the fact that Auden was gay.

Then you could also take something like Donne's "The Bait." There is certainly something to be said about the representation the sexual politics of the 17th century, but that is such a small part of what is actually important or interesting about the poem.