Inconsistencies of Gender Stereotypes Throughout History

[JuniperWoolf]

I'll just leave this here:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19780_5-gender-stereotypes-that-used-to-be-exact-opposite.html

[BienvenuJDC]

One stereotype that I'm not fond of is that women belong in the kitchen (and men don't bake). Another is that men are supposed to love cars (and working on them). While I can do some basic maintenance and upkeep on my car, I hate doing it.

[JuniperWoolf]

I hate all of them. It's a set of unimportant rules that everyone is too afraid to disobey just in case it gets implied that they (ooh, *shudder*) are sexually attracted to members of the same sex, or somewhat resemble members of the opposite sex more so than they do their own according to an arbitrary, constantly changing set of constraints. The funny thing is, the rules themselves are endlessly in flux; the only thing that remains constant is our fear of breaking them.

[Jack of Hearts]

Haha, is this really a big deal? Only if you give too much of a crap. This reader is all male and rocks a pink tee shirt semi-regularly.

What's really sad about this is that people don't feel secure enough to assert their own autonomy. Silly, silly people.

JoH DGAF!





J

[JuniperWoolf]

Haha, is this really a big deal?

I've gotten "but... you're a girl!" in some form or other from four different litnetters over the span of three months. If you think a large chunk of society doesn't see practically every set of behaviour with gender-boundry in mind, then you've never worn your pink shirt out in public (or indeed, ever been in public). Tell me with a straight face (or... straight typeface... whatever) that no one's ever mentioned your shirt when you've worn it. You've never heard someone being called a fag for ordering a "girl" drink? I wonder what people would think if you went out to a restaurant with a girl and she ordered the steak whereas you got the salad. My boyfriend is constantly belittled because he doesn't drive whereas I've had a car since I was fourteen. My little brother was forced to stop figure skating when he was seven even though he really liked it and was actually pretty good, because "it might turn him gay."

I do give a crap, first because the power-of-suggestion and fear of social rejection prevents people from realizing their full potential and being themselves, it's a limitation. Secondly, I give a crap because I witness it so frequently that it annoys the **** out of me on a regular basis. If I hear one more person say "men are dirty and don't know how to take care of themselves - unless they're gay, LOL!" or "women are manipulative and only care about shiny objects, LOL!" I'm going to end their entire genetic line. And third, I give a crap because I'm often personally insulted, in truly the most vitriolic and hateful way, for being in fighting sports and having a "tomboyish" manner. Gender stereotyping is seriously one of the biggest pains in my *** in life, it's second only to small talk.

[Jack of Hearts]

Actually, wore a pink polo today- first to class and then to the supermarket.

People mention it all the time. Surprisingly little hate, and a lot of guys say they wish they had the 'courage' (lol) to wear it. Now granted, if it were a dress...

Anyways, it's purely about other people's discomfort. And you can't do a whole lot for them there. What's that internet slang you kids are using? Haters gonna hate.

There is no doubt in this reader's mind that nasty things are being said or thought about him, and probably perpetually. But how many of these thoughts/words are actually about him and not the speaker/thinker is another matter altogether.

And that's the intended context for the previous question Is this really a big deal?

No big deal. Balls of steel.





J



PS You're kind of uppity for a girl.

EDIT: In hindsight, people usually only mention the pink polo when they want to start a conversation/interaction. It seems to make it easier for shy people who think you're cool or something. If they only knew lol

EDIT EDIT: Was kidding about the uppity, love your stuff. #TeamJuniperWoolf

[JuniperWoolf]

Anyways, it's purely about other people's discomfort. And you can't do a whole lot for them there. What's that internet slang you kids are using? Haters gonna hate.

Yyyyyeeeeaaaahhh, I guess....... but... a species can change, right? I think we can, I think we can, I think we can...


#TeamJuniperWoolf

lol'd.

[Alexander III]

Haha, is this really a big deal? Only if you give too much of a crap. This reader is all male and rocks a pink tee shirt semi-regularly.

What's really sad about this is that people don't feel secure enough to assert their own autonomy. Silly, silly people.

JoH DGAF!





J

Same I wear pink shirts all the time, and after middle school I have yet to meet an adult stupid enough to say anything derogatory about it.

I always thought the whole blue/ pink boy/girl color thing was only ever applied in elementary and middle school.

As for the crying one, has it not always been like that? were any man from this day and age to see a hussar crying after the battle of waterloo, what man could possibly object to that being unmanly? But then again iF every man from this day and age were to see a man crying because a random woman rejected him, I doubt any man could look at that and think the man manly.

Tears all depend upon context.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Men in sports cry all the time, and it's never been deemed unmanly by men, as far as I'm aware.

[JuniperWoolf]

Really? It seems in Canada if a man cries it's a huge ****ing deal. I only saw my dad cry once, when both femurs were broken through his skin, and Rylen said that more than anything "weirded him out."

[ShadowsCool]

Girl/Guy, just different ways of getting to the same thing.

Of course there are differences, but less so than one might think.

I'm attracted to a woman by her girly nature. I think that sums it up.

[tonywalt]

I think the whole "pseudo lesbian making out in the bar" scene has gotten tiresome-always was. Although it is effective in seeking alot of attention, which is generally why it's done in front of guys.

You would never see a couple of guys making out in front of the girls for Alpha display.

It's an odd sorta of newish fadish thing, especially on the college scene. Maybe it's fresh on my mind as a few girls were doing it last nite on top of the bar (of course, where else).

[Alexander III]

Really? It seems in Canada if a man cries it's a huge ****ing deal. I only saw my dad cry once, when both femurs were broken through his skin, and Rylen said that more than anything "weirded him out."

Well any respectable man only cries about huge ****ing deals, if it is trivial and he cries he is pathetic.

[Calidore]

For a list of things it's acceptable for a man to cry about, listen to country music. If you lose your truck, your dog, or your gun, for example, let it out.

[tonywalt]

Really? It seems in Canada if a man cries it's a huge ****ing deal. I only saw my dad cry once, when both femurs were broken through his skin, and Rylen said that more than anything "weirded him out."

As a kid I got reprimanded for crying (the whole "I'll give you something to cry about" approach to childcare) which really made me cry alot more:confused:

I am watery just thinking about back to it:smilewinkgrin:

[Jack of Hearts]

The crying thing is weird. Social conditioning much? It is physically difficult for this reader to cry, even at socially acceptable moments. Extreme emotional distress is more likely to result in vomitting or anger. Crying would be preferable, but alas all those years of unpractice (in the last six years, this reader can't even remember crying once!).


Ah, sweet repression...




J

[tonywalt]

The crying thing is weird. Social conditioning much? It is physically difficult for this reader to cry, even at socially acceptable moments. Extreme emotional distress is more likely to result in vomitting or anger. Crying would be preferable, but alas all those years of unpractice (in the last six years, this reader can't even remember crying once!).


Ah, sweet repression...


J

I hear you. It depends on the person. John Travolta cries occasionally in movies and is emotional, married, with kids, wealth, can afford private massages...

[Jack of Hearts]

I hear you. It depends on the person. John Travolta cries occasionally in movies and is emotional, married, with kids, wealth, can afford private massages...

If the implication here is that an alleged gay encounter can make a person more emotionally sound, then bring on the wine coolers. Let's do this.






J

[tonywalt]

I only Top women, if that's what you mean. I don't think you're cruising on Onlit? Does serious cat allow that?

[Jack of Hearts]

I only Top women, if that's what you mean. I don't think you're cruising on Onlit? Does serious cat allow that?

Some of us are only here because life or eHarmony rejected us. And Serious Cat? More like Bi-Serious Cat.

Kidding aside, no idea why you mentioned the John Travolta thing.






J


EDIT: The assumption was that you were talking about this: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/10/entertainment-us-johntravolta-sexualassa-idUSBRE84700920120510

... and for what reason, this reader can't discern.

[OrphanPip]

I use to see men crying almost daily when I worked in veterinary hospitals, almost everyone cries when their pet dies, or when they can't afford the treatment to save them.

Although, the notion that someone being affected emotionally is pathetic is silly. The aversion to other people crying is what is pathetic, it's because people crying make one uncomfortable, and so expressing that kind of disdain towards crying people gives you an out to being detached from the suffering and experiences of others. Why have to bother with sympathy when one can much more easily continue on being self-absorbed.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Funny you bring up a vet's office Pip. Last time we had to take a dog up there, we saw this huge, muscly, shaved-headed, long-bearded, tattooed, biker-guy blubbering like a baby when the vet told him his dog wasn't going to make it. I didn't know him or the dog, but the very sight almost had me in tears, too.

I think the notion of men crying as being unmanly is starting to lessen. It's not that it's no longer being seen as feminine, but I don't think it's as condemned, either. I mean, it's almost a trope now in movies and TV where we see two guy, one of which has maybe just been dumped by his girlfriend or something, and we see his pal say something like, "Just let it out man," and then, before you know it, they're bro-hugging while one is crying.

[JuniperWoolf]

^That sounds like Fight Club, Edward Norton crying in Meatloaf's arms.


Although, the notion that someone being affected emotionally is pathetic is silly. The aversion to other people crying is what is pathetic, it's because people crying make one uncomfortable, and so expressing that kind of disdain towards crying people gives you an out to being detached from the suffering and experiences of others. Why have to bother with sympathy when one can much more easily continue on being self-absorbed.

Wow, good call. I've never thought of it like that.

[Darcy88]

^That sounds like Fight Club, Edward Norton crying in Meatloaf's arms.



Wow, good call. I've never thought of it like that.

I cry hella. I am proud of my ability to cry. Empathy is a human thing, not a feminine thing, as is sensitivity.

All men have a feminine side, and the more robust it is the more manly is that man. Its a form of strength, an acuity.

Plus Grey's Anatomy is simply a sad show. Don't judge me!

*sobs in his shirt sleeves*

[Alexander III]

Artificial Intelligence had me crying like an orphan.

[Jack of Hearts]

I cry hella.

Has this word migrated to Canada? And do they say it like that there? It seems more natural to say "I hella cry."







J

[stlukesguild]

Last time we had to take a dog up there, we saw this huge, muscly, shaved-headed, long-bearded, tattooed, biker-guy blubbering like a baby when the vet told him his dog wasn't going to make it. I didn't know him or the dog, but the very sight almost had me in tears, too.

Hell, Elvis' Old Shep is enough to make you cry...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE8Y_hc4A5Y

[Darcy88]

Has this word migrated to Canada? And do they say it like that there? It seems more natural to say "I hella cry."







J

Migrated? We invented it. It was I myself that did it. Was out at the pond just down the road from my pa's one summer with a few fellas. We was drinkin Lucky by the can and firing the empties into the lake and then firing 22 shells at the little shiny floating rafts. There being about 7 of us and about 12 beers per man, and the pond, it not being a half a football field in breadth, was literally full, like the Channel on D-Day. I was drunk as a kite and the sight of all them shiny flinty cans out there hit me with sharp humor and so I loudly let cry "Damn that's a hella pile of cans we done let into that there pond boys." Then we all let fire like crazy hell-raisin bastards until a few rangers came rollin up in their trucks and we had to fly like scared beavers, 3 of us being up on charges of public lewdness and marijuana growin.

Good times.

[Dark Star]

Funny you bring up a vet's office Pip. Last time we had to take a dog up there, we saw this huge, muscly, shaved-headed, long-bearded, tattooed, biker-guy blubbering like a baby when the vet told him his dog wasn't going to make it. I didn't know him or the dog, but the very sight almost had me in tears, too.

I think the notion of men crying as being unmanly is starting to lessen. It's not that it's no longer being seen as feminine, but I don't think it's as condemned, either.

There's some truth to this, but that unfortunately depends on the area you're in. I grew up in an area where there was a strong cultural obsession with manliness and if a guy was crying it was seen as evidence of him being homosexual (since, you know, crying is girly:frown2:). And trust me, you did not want to be mistaken for a 'fag' in junior high or high school.

[prendrelemick]

As I get older I do find myself more prone to emotional tears, it's the happy stuff that gets me though. THAT scene in The Railway Childen has me blubbing like a three year old every time. My kids used to love to watch me watching it.

The vet thing has happened to me as well - I didn't even know I was feeling emotional about the dog and it was no big deal, just a routine operation. Then it looked at me and tears sprang from my eyes. I was shocked at the time, I hadn't even cried at funerals of loved ones or anything before that, but I'm glad it happened, it freed me up. Perhaps I was unprepared, and dog got in under my guard.

I think there has been social conditioning here, the Victorians started it with their stiff upper lips. I'm sure men feel emotion just as much as women, and I also think that Not crying is the modified response.

[JuniperWoolf]

Ah, the old British "stiff upper lip." Something else we can blame the British for - well done, Pren, it's YOUR fault men can't cry!

[Revolte]

I hate all of them. It's a set of unimportant rules that everyone is too afraid to disobey just in case it gets implied that they (ooh, *shudder*) are sexually attracted to members of the same sex....

Agreed. Although, I do hate when people go on a spree of calling me the f word. I'm not actually gay, but it doesn't make homophobia any less offensive.

[prendrelemick]

Ah, the old British "stiff upper lip." Something else we can blame the British for - well done, Pren, it's YOUR fault men can't cry!


Not entirely. We Man Brits don't cry because it simply isn't done. (Pull yourself together old chap.) It ties back to what Pip said - because it embarrasses others.

The Americas seem to have adopted the Latin Macho outlook -dont cry you f*g or we'll ridicule you - as recounted by Dark Star.

I blame John Wayne.

[Jack of Hearts]

Not entirely. We Man Brits don't cry because it simply isn't done. (Pull yourself together old chap.) It ties back to what Pip said - because it embarrasses others.

The Americas seem to have adopted the Latin Macho outlook -dont cry you f*g or we'll ridicule you - as recounted by Dark Star.

I blame John Wayne.

This is immensely interesting. Is there much repression in Britain for the sake of keeping everyone comfortable?

Men can cry in America, it just has to be in the right context (Superbowl, Dear Mama by Tupac, etc, etc).









J

[prendrelemick]

I suppose there is. There is definite pressure not to cause a fuss, or make a scene. Though I think this is slowly changing. It is not a gender thing as such, but men crying would come into that catagory.

I should just add that this is a huge generalisation.

[Delta40]

It's a shame really but alot of women just don't want to see men crying due to their socialised formula of man=strength. Frankly, if that is all a guy can do when the going gets tough, he can go find his mama's shoulder as far as I'm concerned.

[tonywalt]

It's a shame really but alot of women just don't want to see men crying due to their socialised formula of man=strength. Frankly, if that is all a guy can do when the going gets tough, he can go find his mama's shoulder as far as I'm concerned.

Delta, are you saying it's a shame that women don't want to see men crying, but you are ok with that? Just asking, as I get your point either way.

I rarely cry in front of a girlfriend. But on certain occasions I do and will.


Occasions that men can cry:

•You've lost a loved one (pets included).
•You've just been wedded to the woman or man you love? Yes, maybe, but only a glint, and briefly. I lean towards no.
•You've been struck in the testicles? Yes, but only soundlessly, and throw in expletives to macho it up a bit.
• Tearing up out of empathy for her? Depending on the situation-Yes

Occasions when you should not cry:

•Your sports team has just won(lost) the championship? That's subjective, but have to go with no.
•You're watching a sad movie? No. It's a point loser. Do it in private.

Robert De Niro cried in many of his movies, but I think that ,most women find his characters and him, emotionally unavailable - ironically. Deer Hunter(when Nicky shoots himself in Russian Roulette, Godfather(when Fredo was was sick), and GoodFellas(when Tommy{joe pesci} gets whacked).

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

It's a shame really but alot of women just don't want to see men crying due to their socialised formula of man=strength. Frankly, if that is all a guy can do when the going gets tough, he can go find his mama's shoulder as far as I'm concerned.

Honestly, I wouldn't want to be with a woman who cries at every little thing, either.

[KCurtis]

I do give a crap, first because the power-of-suggestion and fear of social rejection prevents people from realizing their full potential and being themselves, it's a limitation. Secondly, I give a crap because I witness it so frequently that it annoys the **** out of me on a regular basis. If I hear one more person say "men are dirty and don't know how to take care of themselves - unless they're gay, LOL!" or "women are manipulative and only care about shiny objects, LOL!" I'm going to end their entire genetic line. And third, I give a crap because I'm often personally insulted, in truly the most vitriolic and hateful way, for being in fighting sports and having a "tomboyish" manner. Gender stereotyping is seriously one of the biggest pains in my *** in life, it's second only to small talk.

You tell 'em!!!! I hate it too. And it hasn't gotten any better since I was your age. Now it seems it's a good thing too when women insult men, especially in commercials.

[KCurtis]

I cry hella. I am proud of my ability to cry. Empathy is a human thing, not a feminine thing, as is sensitivity.

All men have a feminine side, and the more robust it is the more manly is that man. Its a form of strength, an acuity.

Plus Grey's Anatomy is simply a sad show. Don't judge me!

*sobs in his shirt sleeves*

You are just wonderful