Extended Haiku

[miyako73]

The vast universe
Lifeless at dead dawn
Waited for the sun.

The empty plaster ceiling
White like the pillow's cotton
Swallowed my memory whole.

From the balcony
To my messy bed,
I walked in silence.

[MorpheusSandman]

I quite like it up until the last line, which is too much of a cliche to close off such a vivid piece. I've also never felt that haikus work in English because of the innate differences in the rhythms between Japanese and English. One doesn't really get the sense of syllables in the same way in English.

[miyako73]

Thanks, Morph. How about "I walked speechless?"

[MorpheusSandman]

I like "speechless" better, but I think I would prefer if it was just completely changed. Upon rereading, I think the problem is that in S2 we get the image of the ceiling and pillows, so we're already spatially placed inside a bedroom, so it seems then strange to, in S3, move from the balcony to the bedroom. It's as if the order is mixed up, and the speaker should be observing the world from the balcony, moving from the balcony to the bedroom, and then having his/her memories swallowed. That third stanza just seems kind weak in general after the interesting juxtaposition of the world and the bedroom in S1 and S2.

[miyako73]

I used silence because it is the generic theme in haikus. A syllable is a syllable in any language. The form of haiku is such-the second line is longer-to compare or contrast or simply to juxtapose the second with the first. The first line introduces an idea. The last line (kiru) appears out of nowhere as a synthesis or to cut in or interrupt.

One will say the Japanese on is different from a syllable, but that's just being picky or linguistically strict. "Still" has one syllable, but if we want to be strict, it has actually two, but who reads it as s.till? Tokyo has four ons, but when read by a native Japanese, it has two syllables- To-kyo.

[MorpheusSandman]

One will say the Japanese on is different from a syllable, but that's just being picky or linguistically strict.... Tokyo has four ons, but when read by a native Japanese, it has two syllables- To-kyo.The "on" of Japanese is referred to as moras in linguistics. Japanese, unlike English, is a multi-moraic language, and it's moras that are counted in haikus and not syllables. The transition from mora to syllable isn't a 1:1 since a mora-timed language like Japanese is quite different, rhythmically, than a stress-timed language like English. I've yet to really see anyone bridge that divide to my own satisfaction. If you were writing a Japanese Haiku, Tokyo would would count as four moras (as would Osaka and Nagasaki) despite the fact they have 2, 3, and 4 syllables, respectively. English rhythm simply isn't determined by syllables, and neither is Japanese or their haikus.

Plus, the kireji or cutting words in haikus have no English equivalent either. I've actually modeled Cinquains on the haiku and tried to experimented with punctuation to imitate kireji, but it's really a pitiful substitution. I wouldn't mind hearing your own theories about how you've attempted to translate those two very uniquely Japanese elements (multi-moraic rhythm and kireji) into your English haikus, because I'd like to find a suitable system myself. In general, I've just never found any decent syllabic substitution for the stress rhythms of English.