My writing problem!

[ashthehunk]

Hi guys
when i write , it seems to me that my stories lack structure and are awkward.
However my friends don't feel that way for my writing.
Is it normal to feel awkward for what you have written?
Is there something you guys could suggest me to better my writing skills. :mad2:

[JamCrackers]

Aside from practice, I have these thoughts. Let's say you are the best writer and you have the best idea ever. I would steal your notes. The idea is valuable. The writing is not. Everyone has their own take on writing. In movies you hear about people planning on making a novel. That is what? 100,000 words or whatever? That alone to me is a huge issue. If you dream of writing one some day, I'm not sure how you get better. If you are not that person, I would suggest writing your first ten to develop your style. My latest improvement was this text aloud software that speaks my writing aloud in a voice. It totally opened my mind to dialog tags, the whole 'said' debate. When you listen to it as audio, you actually need them. You can't hear paragraph breaks so you go back and put all the 'said' back in right to make it understandable. Like anything else difficult, like climbing the ultimate mountain, writers cluster at the bottom by the millions. Each stage higher, many gave up. When you don't give up long enough, you find hardly anyone is left around you. Write more. Part of that is editing is not writing. Spend more time making more and less time fixing what you have. My brother tells me, a lot of my best stuff was my first stuff. Personally, I think my style early on was bad, so I would change it all to my new way of thinking. Your audience is not you. They are much more interested in being entertained than admiring your style. Another thing many do you can avoid is phony mechanical writing. People seek to make 'long sentences' or use semicolons, or keep checking the word processor for average word size, dropping thesaurus words just because they are big words. All that stuff is phony style you need to keep writing until you cure yourself of being so ego about it. Another tool is back off your work and put some time into the concept of a sentence. Take a sentence that was important to you, then like a school exercise, make 50 versions of the sentence. Each of the 50 has to be the same message, only written in a different way.

[Alexander III]

Aside from practice, I have these thoughts. Let's say you are the best writer and you have the best idea ever. I would steal your notes. The idea is valuable. The writing is not. Everyone has their own take on writing. In movies you hear about people planning on making a novel. That is what? 100,000 words or whatever? That alone to me is a huge issue. If you dream of writing one some day, I'm not sure how you get better. If you are not that person, I would suggest writing your first ten to develop your style. My latest improvement was this text aloud software that speaks my writing aloud in a voice. It totally opened my mind to dialog tags, the whole 'said' debate. When you listen to it as audio, you actually need them. You can't hear paragraph breaks so you go back and put all the 'said' back in right to make it understandable. Like anything else difficult, like climbing the ultimate mountain, writers cluster at the bottom by the millions. Each stage higher, many gave up. When you don't give up long enough, you find hardly anyone is left around you. Write more. Part of that is editing is not writing. Spend more time making more and less time fixing what you have. My brother tells me, a lot of my best stuff was my first stuff. Personally, I think my style early on was bad, so I would change it all to my new way of thinking. Your audience is not you. They are much more interested in being entertained than admiring your style. Another thing many do you can avoid is phony mechanical writing. People seek to make 'long sentences' or use semicolons, or keep checking the word processor for average word size, dropping thesaurus words just because they are big words. All that stuff is phony style you need to keep writing until you cure yourself of being so ego about it. Another tool is back off your work and put some time into the concept of a sentence. Take a sentence that was important to you, then like a school exercise, make 50 versions of the sentence. Each of the 50 has to be the same message, only written in a different way.

I agree with hs advice it is definatly a sound start, also post some of your poems or stories in the apropriate sections in this forum and you will get impartial advice from people who not only dont kniw you so there will be no buas, but people who also write themselves.

[Charles Darnay]

Writing a lot is certainly the key. Also have the willingness to edit/re-write. When ideas first go from your head to paper/computer, it is natural that the writing might be a bit awkward, because you are focusing on how to get the ideas out. Once you have a nice mess on your paper/computer, then start to play around with it to make it "less awkward."

[ashthehunk]

I thinks i agree with you sjbraz
Explaining everything hardly leaves anything for the reader.It can make the writing a bit boring for the him.
But while writing there is powerful urge to write everything that is in your head.
if this urge is well managed then i think it will make a good writing

[JamCrackers]

With so many differing opinions, the question could be defined as, how do you write commercially? You would write in a common genre, you keep the erotic angles on a leash. I would call it, 'not being too clever'. Avoid revolutionizing how writing is done.

A technique I use is word collecting. I keep notes when I hear a cool, very rarely used word, saw it in a book or was in a movie. That word will appear one time in the novel length feature.

I was talking to a friend who is a poet. I'm reading 900 days the siege of Leningrad. The writer drops these clips of reality, like a young man with the blue bundle. The met him on the road. He took a rifle. His blue bundle was his pillow when they buried him the next day. There is no before/after story to the kid. It adds a lot of color to the world. That says to me, what do you want in your story? Blue Bundle kid - yes. Character gets out of Bed. Character goes to kitchen. Character makes coffee = no. Tell me something entertaining, even if it is only making your fantasy world seem more real.

[Delta40]

Go with practice, practice, practice. Writing is like everything else in this world. It has to be developed. We all took a few tumbles when learning to ride a bike and it's a fact that some people get the hang of it quicker and can do somersaults while others struggle along but that should not be a deterrent. If you have the drive then go with your gut instinct and let it take you wherever it takes you. Read other works as different forms of writing can guide, enlighten and enhance your own. It's perfectly ok to feel awkward but never doubt your own drive for a moment.

[miyako73]

Come to Literature Network often or go to other literature fora to explore and feel other writers' ideas and vibes. Writing is like a disease- contagious and potent.

[ashthehunk]

With so many differing opinions, the question could be defined as, how do you write commercially? You would write in a common genre, you keep the erotic angles on a leash. I would call it, 'not being too clever'. Avoid revolutionizing how writing is done.

A technique I use is word collecting. I keep notes when I hear a cool, very rarely used word, saw it in a book or was in a movie. That word will appear one time in the novel length feature.

I was talking to a friend who is a poet. I'm reading 900 days the siege of Leningrad. The writer drops these clips of reality, like a young man with the blue bundle. The met him on the road. He took a rifle. His blue bundle was his pillow when they buried him the next day. There is no before/after story to the kid. It adds a lot of color to the world. That says to me, what do you want in your story? Blue Bundle kid - yes. Character gets out of Bed. Character goes to kitchen. Character makes coffee = no. Tell me something entertaining, even if it is only making your fantasy world seem more real.
Well i agree with you but with reservations. I mean yes everyone wants to be commercially successful but i think writing is something that is if not done by soul and satisfaction, will result in a work that would neither be loved by one's readers and nor by oneself.

[ashthehunk]

Go with practice, practice, practice. Writing is like everything else in this world. It has to be developed. We all took a few tumbles when learning to ride a bike and it's a fact that some people get the hang of it quicker and can do somersaults while others struggle along but that should not be a deterrent. If you have the drive then go with your gut instinct and let it take you wherever it takes you. Read other works as different forms of writing can guide, enlighten and enhance your own. It's perfectly ok to feel awkward but never doubt your own drive for a moment.
I think you made a good point. Writing is like any other exercise which needs to be perfected regularly.

[Delta40]

I think you made a good point. Writing is like any other exercise which needs to be perfected regularly.

I would be more inclined to say that writing is an exercise that requires ongoing workouts. Because we grow, learn and change our perspectives through the course of a lifetime, imagine the impact that has on our writing? Isn't that exciting? What a journey worth taking! Whether we perfect our writing is a question I'll try and answer in my dying breath... :-)

[cyberbob]

I feel that way about my writing too. I think it's natural for beginner writers, and I think the main cause is that you compare your raw work-in-progress to the finished works that you see when you read a novel. Remember that not only are those writers extremely experienced, but they've also done a lot of revisions to make their writing look like that.

I recommend you read On Writing be Stephen King. He gives a lot of good, practical advice for people who want to write and he even includes an example of one of his own first drafts (for the story 1408) and then shows the changes he made to it during revision.

[JamCrackers]

On a lighter note, I think about the structure of the novel. I noticed all my favorites were people who compressed wide-scoping stories into a paperback size. So, when working on a book idea, 'Star Wars' is a big project. I find it difficult to have a 100,000 word framework. To me that is like five scenes. Something that took place in one location lasting a day, like a bank robbery gone bad. Sometimes I think a way of doing a novel is 4-5 semi-related short story ideas, like a stage play, you limit your number of scene locations, then tell all the stories at once. Commercially you need a love element, an action element, fill in the genre expectations - practically writes itself. 4-5 good ideas can take you far

[ashthehunk]

I feel that way about my writing too. I think it's natural for beginner writers, and I think the main cause is that you compare your raw work-in-progress to the finished works that you see when you read a novel. Remember that not only are those writers extremely experienced, but they've also done a lot of revisions to make their writing look like that.

I recommend you read On Writing be Stephen King. He gives a lot of good, practical advice for people who want to write and he even includes an example of one of his own first drafts (for the story 1408) and then shows the changes he made to it during revision.
Thanks friend
I will try the book.

Name few more of those books if you can.

[ashthehunk]

On a lighter note, I think about the structure of the novel. I noticed all my favorites were people who compressed wide-scoping stories into a paperback size. So, when working on a book idea, 'Star Wars' is a big project. I find it difficult to have a 100,000 word framework. To me that is like five scenes. Something that took place in one location lasting a day, like a bank robbery gone bad. Sometimes I think a way of doing a novel is 4-5 semi-related short story ideas, like a stage play, you limit your number of scene locations, then tell all the stories at once. Commercially you need a love element, an action element, fill in the genre expectations - practically writes itself. 4-5 good ideas can take you far
The idea of breaking the novel or any long piece of work in small modules is vital. Doing a novel by 4-5 semi related short stories is nice proved the stories are well researched. Otherwise the work will look more like a short story book rather than a novel.

[cyberbob]

Thanks friend
I will try the book.

Name few more of those books if you can.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Write-Reflections-Richard-Rhodes/dp/0688149480/sr=8-1/qid=1171258964/ref=sr_1_1/103-1391512-7551825?ie=UTF8&s=books

You could try this one. I haven't read it, but I read another book full of quotes from writers giving advice on writing and Rhodes's quote is the only one that really stuck with me.

It's what he calls the Knickerbocker rule. In response to the question "how do you write?" the rule is: "apply butt to chair."

To me this rule says that writing is work. Hard work, and you need the attitude of a laborer if you really want progress as a writer.

[JamCrackers]

Like: short stories 1) Your cool idea on a new drug 2) Your cool idea on main character 3) Your cool idea of a villain. 4) Your cool idea on 'secret' military weaponry. 5) Your love interest between hero and villain's daughter.

My issue was 'how big is 100,000 words?

It is about that big. Each idea gets like a 20,000 word treatment throughout. You can tell the story in a WW1 trench on one night, or try and tell the story of WW1.

Everyone has their own taste. I think a writer should have a good feeling for how 'big' a word count is and what you would use it for.

A 'short story' really implies all the house cleaning writing. I mean more like 'cool ideas'. A cool idea would be something you go, "I could make a book on this cool idea." My answer is, no, you really shouldn't. Get that idea plus 3-4 more equally good ideas you can blend in. That is stagecraft to me. Like Gypsy town in Wolfman. That is a lot of housekeeping word count to 'describe gypsy caravan town'. Having described it, you should have a couple of scenes there. If you are going to build a set out of words, make use of it.

[Sancho Panza]

One important thing I always keep in mind when writing is that first drafts are always going to be bad. As long as you get across the story your trying to tell in some coherent fashion it doesn't matter what it says, that's what the rewrite is for, developing on the story and making it into something that people might want to read.

[ashthehunk]

One important thing I always keep in mind when writing is that first drafts are always going to be bad. As long as you get across the story your trying to tell in some coherent fashion it doesn't matter what it says, that's what the rewrite is for, developing on the story and making it into something that people might want to read.
First draft may be raw but it need not be poor
There are many who write on the spot with same brilliance and genius.
Of course it comes with practice and also depends on how wide a reader you are.
It asks for knowledge on substantive issues and an observant eye.

[ashthehunk]

Guys i read all your comments and find all comments very informative,all of you gave a nice tips here basically writing is not a big problem the problem is that we dont the basic way of writing,as the main thing is that you must pay attention to punctuation, especially to the correct use of commas and periods. These two punctuation marks regulate the flow of your thoughts, and they can make your text confusing even if the words are clear.Hope you understand it start by this tip you see that you automatically start writing by your self.
For more info visit here (http://www.ghostpapers.com/)
Punctuation is important but i think more important is the content in between those punctuation marks.

[Delta40]

Don't overlook punctuation! Of course content is important but I believe this discussion has been had in another thread. Grammar and punctuation are part of the story you create. Consider them as one package.

Another thing to keep in mind when comparing oneself with published authors - they often have paid editors and I suspect some even employ the services of ghost writers. Concentrate on your own craft. Comparison can be disheartening in a very big way.

[michaelsbearre]

I know what you went through dude! And getting feed back in the wrong places can be self-sabotage because as writers, we have somewhat of a stigma. So I've noticed. For instance, say you love a book and your best buddy doesn't. Well it's just not his thing, and the truth is, what you write isn't going to be for everyone. SO when someone tells you your book is horrible, just shrug it off as their opinion. Don't be pig headed, but if you love to write, you'll do your research on how to write a good book, how to structure it, and how to execute it. Remember, the internet and forums are loaded with trolls ready to bash anything they get their hands on. Editors are only interested in stuff that is going to sell, so if you're pitching a zombie book in sparkly vampire season, good luck. A lot of the success depends on timing, quality, and who you know.

The best way to sell any book is via book signings. However, it costs money to travel across the nation. So, my best advice is write what entertains you because if you can't entertain yourself, you're not going to be able to entertain anyone else. AND LOVE YOUR WORK and strive for constant improvement!

[ashthehunk]

I know what you went through dude! And getting feed back in the wrong places can be self-sabotage because as writers, we have somewhat of a stigma. So I've noticed. For instance, say you love a book and your best buddy doesn't. Well it's just not his thing, and the truth is, what you write isn't going to be for everyone. SO when someone tells you your book is horrible, just shrug it off as their opinion. Don't be pig headed, but if you love to write, you'll do your research on how to write a good book, how to structure it, and how to execute it. Remember, the internet and forums are loaded with trolls ready to bash anything they get their hands on. Editors are only interested in stuff that is going to sell, so if you're pitching a zombie book in sparkly vampire season, good luck. A lot of the success depends on timing, quality, and who you know.

The best way to sell any book is via book signings. However, it costs money to travel across the nation. So, my best advice is write what entertains you because if you can't entertain yourself, you're not going to be able to entertain anyone else. AND LOVE YOUR WORK and strive for constant improvement!
I agree with you.
finding a reply or feedback at the wrong place will certainly have a negative impact.
Not only the reviews will be negative but the correction these reviewers will propose will have negative learning value.
I think best way of judging your creation is to give it to someone who doesn't know you but has a good knowledge about things.
The place where you can get it all is a literary forum.

[Alexander III]

Like: short stories 1) Your cool idea on a new drug 2) Your cool idea on main character 3) Your cool idea of a villain. 4) Your cool idea on 'secret' military weaponry. 5) Your love interest between hero and villain's daughter.

My issue was 'how big is 100,000 words?

It is about that big. Each idea gets like a 20,000 word treatment throughout. You can tell the story in a WW1 trench on one night, or try and tell the story of WW1.

Everyone has their own taste. I think a writer should have a good feeling for how 'big' a word count is and what you would use it for.

A 'short story' really implies all the house cleaning writing. I mean more like 'cool ideas'. A cool idea would be something you go, "I could make a book on this cool idea." My answer is, no, you really shouldn't. Get that idea plus 3-4 more equally good ideas you can blend in. That is stagecraft to me. Like Gypsy town in Wolfman. That is a lot of housekeeping word count to 'describe gypsy caravan town'. Having described it, you should have a couple of scenes there. If you are going to build a set out of words, make use of it.

But I have a question, how can you write about being in a WW1 trench. Personally I was born in 1992, never fought in any war, and have never had to shoot men and be shot at by men. I know the power of imagination and all that stuff, but I find it extremely difficult to write about something I have never experienced.

For instance once I wrote a piece about cocaine, and then a couple of months later I actually tried it, and I looked back on the piece and it was ridiculous because it was so detached from reality.

Were I or you to write a piece on WWI, any person who has actually been a soldier would most likely find it ridiculous.