Further into introverts

[jajdude]

Was looking for the thread about introverts and extroverts and did not see.

I don't know if this was mentioned but us strong introverts are, I presume, often digging into own ideas and seeing if they make sense and where they lead. We live in a world of thought as all people do, but for us it is striking and defining. In fact this defines us in way. For strong introverts it does

That's it, the digging. It does not stop. Not for us "deep" introverts, not that we are deep, but sometimes we are.

[Helga]

I think introversion is different depending on the person. Also in some cases they don't choose introversion it's more than wanting to be alone with your thoughts. At least in my case I feel physically ill if I spend to much time surrounded with people, even my family.

All I can say is I still haven't found anyone I enjoy spending time with as much as myself.

[hawthorns]

I think introversion is different depending on the person. Also in some cases they don't choose introversion it's more than wanting to be alone with your thoughts. At least in my case I feel physically ill if I spend to much time surrounded with people, even my family.

All I can say is I still haven't found anyone I enjoy spending time with as much as myself.

For a minute I thought I had written that. I can sympathize. We introverts are definitely introspective--too much for our own good sometimes.

[billl]

Here's a nice talk I recently saw about introverts and what things are sometimes like these days:

http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts.html

[Helga]

there was an article in the guardian about introverts, I can't find it but it was based on a book called : Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking

http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352145/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS?ie=UTF8&coliid=IDFQBEY8UD3ID&colid=LJFUJNSNUTU

[JamCrackers]

I don't believe in the concept itself. What others would call introvert and extrovert is what I would call different kinds of human entirely. As for myself, I am very in tune with my greed and selfishness. I want what I want and go after what I want. I want smart things. The life's work of a smart person carefully distilled into their writings is something that I want to see. The opinion of every common television watcher is not of value to me. I am not an introvert to the smart writer. I would love to buy the smart writer a drink and explore their thoughts. The uninteresting people would find me quite introvert. It reminds me of a personal saying, which is how do you get an expert to find you paranoid and ignorant? You fail to find them intelligent and interesting. Common minded people don't like to be reminded they are common and uninteresting. Greed is one of the purest and truest forms of honesty. It is exactly what it claims to be and has no ulterior motive.

[jajdude]

Well, these are just terms, and useful ones, which run along an axis I guess.

I don't understand having any choice in the matter. To me it seems to be largely an inborn trait, with some factors contributing to who you are. Yet some have spoken of being this in the past, and changing, which is interesting. I believe it is laid down for me though. I can act a little. I'm a teacher. Inside though is where I mostly live.

[Helga]

my thoughts on this are mainly that the world keeps telling us we need to be outgoing and open to get ahead and be happy. I often feel like people act like I am wrong because I don't want to be out and about all the time.

[Delta40]

what would you say is the criteria for an introvert? I only ask because rather than look it up in my oxford, I'd be interested in each of your own definitions.

[jajdude]

Here's a nice talk I recently saw about introverts and what things are sometimes like these days:

http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts.html

Good link billl. That woman has some good points. What it brings home as well is the expectation of extroversion. The preference for it, as that trait belongs to the more outgoing and the bigger talkers. Many are being overlooked, which they kind of want, as sitting in the quiet is their preferred way. Some of them are the better ones, dismissed for lesser ones, all based on how they function in social environments, more or less, and how they react to what happens around them. Some are overwhelmed easily, and other stroll right through.

Interesting stuff.


what would you say is the criteria for an introvert? I only ask because rather than look it up in my oxford, I'd be interested in each of your own definitions.

Cannot speak for others of course. For me it is a sharp thing. And keen. The energy is easily sapped. Talking a lot is not natural. It's draining. I have to do it, but it always wears me out. Glad to have a break of course.

All the things that happens around you, the people, the noise, for some this is no big deal. For others it infiltrates, it touches them and weaves throughout their consciousness.

[Delta40]

Cannot speak for others of course. For me it is a sharp thing. And keen. The energy is easily sapped. Talking a lot is not natural. It's draining. I have to do it, but it always wears me out. Glad to have a break of course.

All the things that happens around you, the people, the noise, for some this is no big deal. For others it infiltrates, it touches them and weaves throughout their consciousness.

Thanks jajdude. So you can manage to work fulltime and and interact but you'd prefer less of it because it drains you and all the day to day chaos of people and noise can really get to you. May I ask if you get bouts of agoraphobia or do you simply make free choices not to go out into the world? I hope you don't mind me asking.

[tonywalt]

We talked about this on a thread called "Reading and Introversion". In that thread I stated that if you put 100 introverts in a pub/bar/function they would no longer be introverts. It is quite often that introverts have cerebral and intellectual interests not often shared by the masses - thus the sort of isolation. As for the draining feeling, it derives from hanging around people we have little in common and perhaps do not accept us. It is very draining. But I can easily chat on here all day, as most of us are birds of a certain feather, and it is not draining but fulfilling. It's not the company, but the type of company that determines how draining it can be.

Most people who are described or self described as introverted do not want to be alone quite as much, in my learned opinion. Certainly not as much as they are alone.

I would say most are applying cognitive dissonance, and that is clear to see when you listen to them or read their own writing. And a minority truely like to be on their very own.

I for one, can't stand being isolated, and will always seek out company both male and female sometimes to talk and other times for intimacy with the opposite sex.

But back to my single point, there is an awful lot of cognitive dissonance here, as it would take a hell of a lot guts to say "I'm alone and do not want to be alone". I dare say most people just aint gonna say it like that!

As Woody Allen(no time to google the exact quote) said "Rationalisation is better than sex, can you think of a day when you didn't have a good Rationalisation?"

[Helga]

OK, in response to the 100 introverts in a bar thing, if somebody came up to me and started talking then yes I would chat and if I found them interesting I might be very open and honest but I know myself and I would never be the one to walk up to a stranger and start talking.

Another thing about introverts not wanting to be alone, I can honestly say that I don't want to be single for ever and I would enjoy the company of someone like-minded but even in a relationship I need a lot of alone time.

I don't think these situations are what make an introvert, I can talk to people and I enjoy being with a small group or one on one but on my terms, I need to feel like I can stand up and leave the minuet I want to without having to explain myself.

I think the video link on this thread (pg 1 I think) is pretty good and what she says makes sense, I also like that she pointed out that her husband is an extrovert.

the scariest thing about people (extroverts often but not only), they tend to bring more people with them...

[tonywalt]

I have read the book "Quiet" by Susan Cain referenced below and it is excellent. I agree with all she has to say and her definition of introverted as shown below:

It's how you respond to stimulation, including social stimulation. Introverts generally, but not always, prefer lower-stimulation environments in terms of people, that's where they feel at their most alive. Whereas extroverts really crave stimulation in order to feel at their best. It's important to see it this way because people often equate introversion with being antisocial, and it's not that at all – it's just a preference.

[Delta40]

I've never thought about being either introverted or extroverted. I work part time and as soon as I get out of work, I go home. That's the place where I like to be. I don't have an issue leaving the house but I do side step social gatherings where I can and only attend the things I want to. Like Helga, I need to make sure that I can get up and leave any time I choose but I've just always put that down to needing to be in control of my situation. I have one friend who I see regularly.

I am used to my own company and can live with it in terms of being single but I don't want to exist in complete isolation from the world. My social skills seem fine but since I don't expand on them beyond work and the small circle of eccentric friends I have had for years, I really couldn't say how I might come across if I hit the dating game and started partying all of a sudden, which I really doubt I'd ever do because it isn't me.

I use lit-net alot as a social substitute.

[Helga]

I want to read that book, it sounds very interesting, I have to admit though there is something about being an introvert and a public speaker that doesn't fit in my head though. Maybe because I don't like speaking in public.

the difference between being intro and extro is interesting, I was with my friends the other day and when I had gotten just about enough and wanted to go home one said that she wants to make plans after school and do something cause she needs more friends in her life. I just thought WHAT more! I get more than enough going to uni everyday and she want more.

I think about introversion a lot now, mainly because I always thought I was the one that wasn't alright or doing something weird. Now I just think I'm me.

when I was a kid I rarely went out to play with other kids, I had friends, one or two but I preferred to stay inside and read or do scrap books, I still have a really cool Star Wars scrap book I started when I was 10. I still add to it every now and then.

another thing about Cain is that she isn't saying that one is better than the other, just that they should be equal.

[tonywalt]

I would say the industry I work in is absolutely ruled by extroverts, who can spot an introvert like a limping wildebeest at the back of a galloping pack, whose fate is certain. I have observed them and can say a few things about those observations.

I do admire they way they bowl through the world, acting with their gut, shooting from the hip, very little analysis, no curiosity beyond what is practical and necessary(they figure who's who and what's what quick and act with fierce self preservation and darwinian ferocity), zero or virtually nil introspection, and topped off with a extraordinary sense of self and self worth. There is no time for depression, because their self value is so high, and the world could not exist without them coming through the door. It's a very simple program "I'm right, you are wrong, and f#$k you if you don't like it. If that does not work, just get louder and puff up your feathers, people will back down, and they do. They are extremely difficult to hurt, because the sensitivity chip is so small. And because of the "positive energy" and more importantly Force of Personality(so key in this Tony Robbins world)- the sky is the limit in terms what can be done in a world that is so very socially networked where positions of power or finance are located.

Although it's an artless world they live in (even when my photographs are on display in a gallery, they seem to be on skates going through the museum-such speed and lack of interest).

I still agree with Cain in that both types and all between are necessary-after all that:smilewinkgrin:

[YesNo]

I do admire they way they bowl through the world, acting with their gut, shooting from the hip, very little analysis, no curiosity beyond what is practical and necessary(they figure who's who and what's what quick and act with fierce self preservation and darwinian ferocity), zero or virtually nil introspection, and topped off with a extraordinary sense of self and self worth. There is no time for depression, because their self value is so high, and the world could not exist without them coming through the door. It's a very simple program "I'm right, you are wrong, and f#$k you if you don't like it. If that does not work, just get louder and puff up your feathers, people will back down, and they do. They are extremely difficult to hurt, because the sensitivity chip is so small. And because of the "positive energy" and more importantly Force of Personality(so key in this Tony Robbins world)- the sky is the limit in terms what can be done in a world that is so very socially networked where positions of power or finance are located.

Actually, that description of extroverts is how I picture them also. They tend to be the abusers in family and business relationships. Although this might give them some wins, overall they tend to lose. There is always a bigger abuser out there.

An introvert also has positive energy and seems better able to handle their emotions and thoughts.

[papayahed]

Wow, quit a bit of extrovert bashing going on. I hear they eat their babies too.

[JamCrackers]

I have actually been searching for people who don't perform the crimes they fight. I have never found anyone yet. Everyone against hate - viciously hates 'haters' because they deserve it. When lecturing against bullying, they savagely bully anyone who disagrees. People who like peace defend war. People who hate racism support exterminating Palestinians for being Semite race and not white like Israelis. Last I read, leading cause of gay murder is other gays; they murder their lover in a fight same as heterosexuals. The honest statement would be just to admit the human mammal is violent, territorial, tribal, and gets deep pleasure from inflicting suffering on others. The reason you should admit this is because the world gets really clear. You notice that the people talking the most are just another bunch of hateful savages and the honest people are just running for the lives from the all social cults, anyone who names themselves their group from atheist to nazi, all the same thing. Another tribal brute forming a pack to go hunt for victims who 'deserve it'. NICE THING about being an activist, someone always deserves your hatred. Just name it something else, like activism.

[tonywalt]

I have actually been searching for people who don't perform the crimes they fight. I have never found anyone yet. Everyone against hate - viciously hates 'haters' because they deserve it. When lecturing against bullying, they savagely bully anyone who disagrees. People who like peace defend war. People who hate racism support exterminating Palestinians for being Semite race and not white like Israelis. Last I read, leading cause of gay murder is other gays; they murder their lover in a fight same as heterosexuals. The honest statement would be just to admit the human mammal is violent, territorial, tribal, and gets deep pleasure from inflicting suffering on others. The reason you should admit this is because the world gets really clear. You notice that the people talking the most are just another bunch of hateful savages and the honest people are just running for the lives from the all social cults, anyone who names themselves their group from atheist to nazi, all the same thing. Another tribal brute forming a pack to go hunt for victims who 'deserve it'. NICE THING about being an activist, someone always deserves your hatred. Just name it something else, like activism.

I agree with the above, in that it is a tribal world and that our tribe - call them onlitters can and do smash people we hold in disdain with ferocity(just look at our threads).

But I also observe there are different levels of amorality, and of course I believe people of my nature (call it ambivert or a hybrid) are better to be around for lack of a better way of stating it.

I base this not on self oberservation but oberservation of introverts, amibiverts, and extroverts. I can assure you, dealing with agressive extroverts is so much more stressful in business than dealing with introverts. That is my subjective experience.

[Delta40]

I agree with the above, in that it is a tribal world and that our tribe - call them onlitters can and do smash people we hold in disdain with ferocity(just look at our threads).

But I also observe there are different levels of amorality, and of course I believe people of my nature (call it ambivert or a hybrid) are better to be around for lack of a better way of stating it.

I base this not on self oberservation but oberservation of introverts, amibiverts, and extroverts. I can assure you, dealing with agressive extroverts is so much more stressful in business than dealing with introverts. That is my subjective experience.

Wow Tony! I'm in awe that you understood that post! You have my undying respect from here on in...:cool:

[tonywalt]

Actually, that description of extroverts is how I picture them also. They tend to be the abusers in family and business relationships. Although this might give them some wins, overall they tend to lose. There is always a bigger abuser out there.

An introvert also has positive energy and seems better able to handle their emotions and thoughts.

I agree, but I would say an introvert internalizes emotions and thoughts, and that's what might create anxiety or depression. Extroverts tend to externalize things, and if you are around them you quickly hear all about them, their problems, and their achievements.

Please understand the context of my writing, in speaking of the corporate world extroverts as my primary reference in this writing. It's a special breed of agressive extrovert, in many cases.

[Darcy88]

I am both. When I'm depressed its introversion, and when my adhd acts up I'm outgoing more than the average person. I also experience both tendencies at different times of day. If I don't get my 8 hours of solid sleep I'm tired and tend to be quiet around people. When I'm well-rested and full of energy I'm one of those life-of-the-party type individuals. Overall though I guess I'm often introverted and selectively extroverted.

I sound a little bipolar don't I? I thought I was until two psychologists told me they seriously suspect that I suffer from adult adhd. Was quite a relief. I won't go to a psychiatrist to get an official diagnosis because those bastards really scare me. Hahahaha.

[hawthorns]

I would say the industry I work in is absolutely ruled by extroverts, who can spot an introvert like a limping wildebeest at the back of a galloping pack, whose fate is certain. I have observed them and can say a few things about those observations.

I do admire they way they bowl through the world, acting with their gut, shooting from the hip, very little analysis, no curiosity beyond what is practical and necessary(they figure who's who and what's what quick and act with fierce self preservation and darwinian ferocity), zero or virtually nil introspection, and topped off with a extraordinary sense of self and self worth. There is no time for depression, because their self value is so high, and the world could not exist without them coming through the door. It's a very simple program "I'm right, you are wrong, and f#$k you if you don't like it. If that does not work, just get louder and puff up your feathers, people will back down, and they do. They are extremely difficult to hurt, because the sensitivity chip is so small. And because of the "positive energy" and more importantly Force of Personality(so key in this Tony Robbins world)- the sky is the limit in terms what can be done in a world that is so very socially networked where positions of power or finance are located. Although it's an artless world they live in (even when my photographs are on display in a gallery, they seem to be on skates going through the museum-such speed and lack of interest).

I still agree with Cain in that both types and all between are necessary-after all that:smilewinkgrin:

That seems to be par for the course these days, especially when power/prestige is a factor. It's comforting to assume that admirable personal attributes like integrity, trustworthiness, empathy, and honor play a critical part in success/position. Unfortunately, in my experience it's often inversely related. The higher up the ladder you go in many firms, the more vile they get. And yes, a healthy percentage are extroverts. But in the final analysis, it all depends on the person. Some of my favorite people are extroverts.

You wouldn't be in I.banking or financial services, by chance?

[tonywalt]

That seems to be par for the course these days, especially when power/prestige is a factor. It's comforting to assume that admirable personal attributes like integrity, trustworthiness, empathy, and honor play a critical part in success/position. Unfortunately, in my experience it's often inversely related. The higher up the ladder you go in many firms, the more vile they get. And yes, a healthy percentage are extroverts. But in the final analysis, it all depends on the person. Some of my favorite people are extroverts.

You wouldn't be in I.banking or financial services, by chance?

Since my pic and name are on this I cannot confirm that I am in the latter occupation.

You are correct in terms of those personal attributes rarely (not saying never) working for you working your way up the corporate ladder.

It is interesting that on the lower part of the corporate food chain you will see alot of Eastern/Buddhist type stuff pasted on cubicles - Desiderata being very common. On the top level executives you will see alot of pictures and quotes from Donald Trump, Rockefeller, Vince Lombardi ("..winning is the only thing") and on and on.

In a pitch battle, I can pick the winner 9 out of 10, and the Eastern philosophy will be speared and eaten.

[hawthorns]

Since my pic and name are on this I cannot confirm that I am in the latter occupation.

You are correct in terms of those personal attributes rarely (not saying never) working for you working your way up the corporate ladder.

It is interesting that on the lower part of the corporate food chain you will see alot of Eastern/Buddhist type stuff pasted on cubicles - Desiderata being very common. On the top level executives you will see alot of pictures and quotes from Donald Trump, Rockefeller, Vince Lombardi ("..winning is the only thing") and on and on.

In a pitch battle, I can pick the winner 9 out of 10, and the Eastern philosophy will be speared and eaten.

Depressing, isn't it?

I used to assume that these attributes/behaviors were the natural product of emperor-like wealth, power, and responsibility ala Roman consuls. Then I realized they're simple prerequisites for a Dark-Side Darwinism that has rewritten all the rules. I don't know whether it's always been like this or if it's "new" money and all it's microwave profit, save-your-own-##s glory. Probably a little of both. My grandfather was an executive and he sure never minced words about how far things have regressed. Not the case, obviously, everywhere. But it definitely accounts for the majority of my (and everyone I know) experiences.

[YesNo]

I am both. When I'm depressed its introversion, and when my adhd acts up I'm outgoing more than the average person. I also experience both tendencies at different times of day. If I don't get my 8 hours of solid sleep I'm tired and tend to be quiet around people. When I'm well-rested and full of energy I'm one of those life-of-the-party type individuals. Overall though I guess I'm often introverted and selectively extroverted.

I sound a little bipolar don't I? I thought I was until two psychologists told me they seriously suspect that I suffer from adult adhd. Was quite a relief. I won't go to a psychiatrist to get an official diagnosis because those bastards really scare me. Hahahaha.
I wouldn't want to be diagnosed with anything. It just adds something negative to your record that you might have to explain later. It sounds like you are healthy enough without a label.

Being the life-of-the-party may be a way to keep people from getting too close. The real question is how often do you prefer to go to a party rather than, say, walk by yourself in the park? In my case, I only go to the party if I feel required to do so but then I do try to make the best of it and often find it enjoyable.

[YesNo]

I agree, but I would say an introvert internalizes emotions and thoughts, and that's what might create anxiety or depression. Extroverts tend to externalize things, and if you are around them you quickly hear all about them, their problems, and their achievements.

Please understand the context of my writing, in speaking of the corporate world extroverts as my primary reference in this writing. It's a special breed of agressive extrovert, in many cases.
I don't think introverts generally feel any more or less depressed than extroverts. But I have no statistics to back that up. My guess is that introverts are just as positive, optimistic, and cheerful as extroverts. Who knows?

[tonywalt]

I don't think introverts generally feel any more or less depressed than extroverts. But I have no statistics to back that up. My guess is that introverts are just as positive, optimistic, and cheerful as extroverts. Who knows?


I would love to agree with that, but disagree. Extroverts are much less likely to have trouble reconciling themselves with society. You can just simply read the books, poems, forum postings of self described introverts or subtly self described introverts and compare it to extroverts - very different. The essential challenge for introverts is their difficulty with fitting into society.


Whilst many would naturally say ''I don't care'', I think that is just necessary cognitive dissonance-and is common default answer.

I would be happy as a pig in mud to have more people like me, hell yes, as it would benefit me in countless ways. Plus, I would have higher chances at reproductive situations(nice way of putting it) which would be bloody brilliant. When I was in college playing football I had alot more attention (especially for an ambivert) and I flipping loved it-soaked it up.

[Delta40]

Is there any research that links introverts or extroverts to particular mental health conditions?

[tonywalt]

.....

[tonywalt]

In the cases of many people, the more knowledge a person retains and the more concepts they can understand at a deep level invites a certain possibility that internal conflict and anxiety within that person will accumulate. I am referring to people of creative and intellectual strains. Its a pathological view, but that is my study based on observation and experience.

The mind may make an excellent servant, but is a terrible master.

[Darcy88]

I wouldn't want to be diagnosed with anything. It just adds something negative to your record that you might have to explain later. It sounds like you are healthy enough without a label.

Being the life-of-the-party may be a way to keep people from getting too close. The real question is how often do you prefer to go to a party rather than, say, walk by yourself in the park? In my case, I only go to the party if I feel required to do so but then I do try to make the best of it and often find it enjoyable.

Thank you YesNo for calling me "healthy." The attainment and maintenance of sound physical and mental health is pretty much my main preoccupation. Its why I puruse knowledge, why I read.

And yes, what you say about getting a diagnosss reflects my thoughts on the matter precisely. Labels are so often bogus, I simply do not want one.

I can't say whether I am introverted or extroverted with any final definiteness. I like to be alone and I like to be around other people. I need both. If I partied every Friday and Saturday night like most people my age do I would not enjoy it much. But if I don't get out at least a few times a month, and meet up with friends on a regular basis, my depression arises fierce and growling. I like to be around people for a good chunk of each day, as I like to be alone for several hours each day.

Yin and yang.

[YesNo]

Is there any research that links introverts or extroverts to particular mental health conditions?
I just did a quick search on introversion and depression and found an article by Deborah Gray that seemed to describe the two traits accurately:

http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/c/18/7838/link-depression/2

I don't think I'm quite as introverted as she is. I can initiate a conversation with more than one person at a party before I'm burnt out for example.

She did mention a poll by John McManamy which suggests introverts are more depressed than extroverts. Now I'm wondering if any of these terms mean anything to me.

http://www.healthcentral.com/bipolar/c/15/1619/tests-bipolar/

He also said introverts in his poll were more likely to be mystics and dreamers.

I don't know how accurate any of this is, but perhaps tonywalt is right about the link between the isolation of introversion and depression.

[Delta40]

I think the link between depression and introversion is only relevant once isolation becomes a factor that you're battling with. Like the article says, an introvert would prefer to stay at home with a good book rather than go to a party, so that's a choice and not linked to depression. Although, hours of self-absorbed thinking could have it's down side, especially when one is convinced they are separate from the rest of the world.

[YesNo]

I guess the problem with linking depression and introversion is that it confuses the concepts which are already vague enough. Depression would need isolation which could also happen to an extrovert.

The dualism of extroversion-introversion might too easily become metaphors for other dual concepts like manic-depressive or pleasure-pain or abuser-victim which have little to do with each other.

[kiki1982]

Introversion is only an indication of depression if an extrovert suddenly becomes introverted. I concede that not being able to talk about any problems you may have could lead to depression, but I doubt whether there are many introverts who are really that far on the spectrum that they cannot, under any circumstances whatsoever, go to a psychiatrist or their doctor to sort themselves out. In all likelihood, I would argue, that introverts would more quickly realise that they have a problem as extroverts run past themselves sometimes, so to say.

Personally, I am also like Helga. At a certain time, it is enough. I cannot be around people all the time. The better I know them, the longer I can be with them, but social gatherings where I know no-one apart from my hubby (who is a decided extrovert) are a prospect of much fear. And I do become physically ill as the prospect comes closer.

As introverts are naturally dominated by extroverts in society, the latter set the standard and as they think they are always right, naturally introverts are 'abnormal'. As I come from a family of introverts, I have witnessed nothing different than introversion, o my extrovert hubby was quite new to me. I am grateful that I met him though, because a svere introvert needs an extrovert to compensate and vice versa.

To me, the people that I meet are of three categories:

1 Absolutely not interesting. In that case I will listen and hope the time passes quickly.

2 Those who are fun and interesting for the time being. Are fun to talk to and keep the conversation going (what a relief), but are not interesting enough to further investigate.

3 Those who are fun and interesting to talk to, have something to say beyond the average washing powder and what produces the whitest washing. They could become a friend if contact persists. Though to be called 'friend' takes a few years at least.

I have a total of five friends in the world who I personally think I am losing because we have drifted apart. Although that does not do much to me personally.

[Helga]

Personally, I am also like Helga. At a certain time, it is enough. I cannot be around people all the time. The better I know them, the longer I can be with them, but social gatherings where I know no-one apart from my hubby (who is a decided extrovert) are a prospect of much fear. And I do become physically ill as the prospect comes closer.




I agree that the better I know people the more comfortable I am being around them, my best friend is the only person except my son I could always be around. but my problem is that I don't want people to get to close, and I am better one on one than a party or any social gathering.

I feel very positive hearing about your husband being an extrovert, I think that is a good combination.

[Delta40]

I guess the problem with linking depression and introversion is that it confuses the concepts which are already vague enough. Depression would need isolation which could also happen to an extrovert.

The dualism of extroversion-introversion might too easily become metaphors for other dual concepts like manic-depressive or pleasure-pain or abuser-victim which have little to do with each other.

Thats true. It's rather like trying to catch rain drops in a tea strainer but I asked the question because I hadn't thought of being either introverted or extroverted before and I do have ties with people who have depression and other conditions. I wondered overall about labelling in general especially when introversion and extroversion is more of a scale measurement imo.

[tonywalt]

When I think of introverts and depression, David Foster Wallace springs first to mind. He was probably the most gifted author of his generation who was certainly introverted and suffered from depression, unfortunately ended his own life. He was brilliant incredibly complex, just listen to the interview - probably his best and most revealing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLPStHVi0SI&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAT9V2wHx3M&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDIVX7pNwGE&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjf27-uY0Ss&feature=relmfu

[YesNo]

I do sort of associate being depressed with being an introvert although I don't know of anyone whom I would call an introvert who is depressed, but since I'm somewhat introverted, I probably don't know enough people to make any reasonable judgement.

The people in my extended family who seem to get into trouble I would have to classify as extroverts rather than introverts. Making noisy scenes in a bar until one is kicked out, giving the local policeman the finger, or screaming for no reason at one's boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't really seem like something an introvert would waste their time doing.

[BookBeauty]

You guys are really cutting into extroverts in this thread.

Being a slight extrovert on the scale (58), I feel I should speak up. This entire thread just seems to be a way of labeling and making certain people feel better than others.

I don't think anyone is entirely introverted, or entirely extroverted, and I don't think that all people follow the line of traits indicated as set rules.

Most of the individuals I have met are introverts. I say that because most people are worried about what other people think, and are very reserved.

Growing up as an extrovert, I was given a very hard time, and seen as being abnormal, from kindergarten and upwards. I would unabashedly run up to kids I didn't know and ask to be friends. I was friendly, kind, and nice. (Still am, I hope!)

I had rocks thrown at me, I was teased, called names, people spit in my seat and gave me a hard time, and I can promise you that the majority of the people who did this were introverts just trying to fit in. I remember very distinctly reading my big thick books against the brick wall, and having rocks thrown, for no apparent reason other than the fact that I stuck out. I put up with it, and I never stopped trying to be kind to people, because I didn't want them to feel the way that I felt.

Extroverts read too, and the world isn't really ruled by extroverts. A lot of the people who rule in business are just introverts that learned to be extroverted, because they thought they had to, to get ahead.

Extroversion is simply a trait that anyone can have, or learn, and I don't think that you could really assign people to 'introvert' and 'extrovert'. My psychology professor had a terrible social phobia, and she was an incredibly shy, introverted individual. Still, she found the strength to get up every single day, and make it to a lecture hall, which was one of her greatest fears... And is now one of her greatest passions. She was bubbly, and quirky, and incredibly fun. She gave some of the best lectures I've seen (And I'm a big fan of lectures... Yes... I watch lectures on the internet... For fun. :P)

I can guarantee you that if you were to see her giving her lectures, or speaking with people, you'd call her an extrovert.

My point here is that not everything is what it seems, and that it's wrong to use labels for good and bad behaviour.

Sorry, I did try to hold myself back to contributing to this thread, but it kinda bubbled over. :D

[kiki1982]

I think you are confusing a few things, though. Shyness has nothing to do with introversion. Introversion is wishing to keep your feelings to yourself. Shyness is being scared of what other people think. You can have a lot of self-confidence as an introvert, so not be shy, but still not feel comfortable meeting unknown people all day.

You can work on your social skills, so you will fool others and learn to keep a conversation going, but you will never become a decided extrovert. Let's say, you will have a pleasant conversation (for the other then), but you will not lay open your life to him, though he will do that to you most probably if he is an extrovert. Familiarity has a lot to do with it. If your lecturer in the beginnig elt incredibly oppressed doing her lectures but she persevered, then she will start feeling more comfortable. But she will never ever ever feel truly in her element doing that. She'll feel fine and confident that it will all go swimmingly as before, but every time she has to face a whole new class, that fear will surface again. Or at least so it is with me.

I did not mean to say that the world is literally ruled in all places by extroverts (in Asia it is the other way around), but the anglo-saxon world, led by the USA is definitely the measure when it comes to the business world. And American (business) people are scary to me as an introvert. Too much for one time! Facebook of all things (what a useless thing it is) is also their invention. It is a decided extrovert phenomenon. No introvert would wish to lay open all his opinions to all his friends and acquaintances, colleagues and what have you. I am quite confident that if you were to count the amount of 'friends' people had on those social networks and would then have them take a test to see what side of the intro-extrovert spectrum they are on, the people with the most 'friends' would probably all score above 50/100. Th introverts (under 50) would have fewer friends because they do not tend to hit the 'friend'-button too quickly, would put more privacy features on their profile, and would converse more in closed groups where the extroverts would have more friends and throw their opinions out there in the open without much regard for the status of friends they have (whether good inner circle friends or acuaintances).

As I said, there are parts in this world where the odds are different, probably in Scandinavia too. So, you as an extrovert are perceived as 'weird' by most people because you seem not to be able to keep yourself under control and people feel threatened by you (that is seriously how I feel if someone gets too close to me in one go). Conversely, introverts in an extrovertly-oriented society are maybe not bullied (although if they are, people are less likely to know about it, like with me) but at least found quiet, dreaming and are sometimes even totally misunderstood as disintersted or uninvolved. As in P&P where Bingley is perceived as the quintessential fine young man (a decided etrovert) and Darcy is percieved as proud and conceited (a decided introvert). He is maybe somewhat conceited, but him not talking to anyone but Bingley's sisters and anyone in their party was not down to him being too proud to talk to anyone else because they are beneath him, the prospect of a ball with all strangers is just too much for him and he has a hard time being natural, unlike Bingley. He is not the one to walk up to a lady and ask to dance. I can tell you as girl though, I never did and in our group girls were sometimes ask to invite. I danced for about 10 years. Every time the start of the academic year with a lot of new members was a porspect of fear because what do you say to them?

@Helga:

I feel that I was lucky in meeting my hubby. If I had an introverted hubby, what a mess it would become. At least now I have someone to talk for me. :)

When Mr Kiki (hihi, I like that ;)) went to Prague a year ago for a month, for a course, I just spent the whole month at home alone, with our three cats. I saw no-one. Didn't even feel alone. My husband is already driven up the wall if he has to stay at home during his weeks off for about three days. Oh, wait, he already wishes to go and have a coffee when we have reached the one-day mark...

[BookBeauty]

I think you are confusing a few things, though. Shyness has nothing to do with introversion. Introversion is wishing to keep your feelings to yourself. Shyness is being scared of what other people think. You can have a lot of self-confidence as an introvert, so not be shy, but still not feel comfortable meeting unknown people all day.

You can work on your social skills, so you will fool others and learn to keep a conversation going, but you will never become a decided extrovert. Let's say, you will have a pleasant conversation (for the other then), but you will not lay open your life to him, though he will do that to you most probably if he is an extrovert. Familiarity has a lot to do with it. If your lecturer in the beginnig elt incredibly oppressed doing her lectures but she persevered, then she will start feeling more comfortable. But she will never ever ever feel truly in her element doing that. She'll feel fine and confident that it will all go swimmingly as before, but every time she has to face a whole new class, that fear will surface again. Or at least so it is with me.

I did not mean to say that the world is literally ruled in all places by extroverts (in Asia it is the other way around), but the anglo-saxon world, led by the USA is definitely the measure when it comes to the business world. And American (business) people are scary to me as an introvert. Too much for one time! Facebook of all things (what a useless thing it is) is also their invention. It is a decided extrovert phenomenon. No introvert would wish to lay open all his opinions to all his friends and acquaintances, colleagues and what have you. I am quite confident that if you were to count the amount of 'friends' people had on those social networks and would then have them take a test to see what side of the intro-extrovert spectrum they are on, the people with the most 'friends' would probably all score above 50/100. Th introverts (under 50) would have fewer friends because they do not tend to hit the 'friend'-button too quickly, would put more privacy features on their profile, and would converse more in closed groups where the extroverts would have more friends and throw their opinions out there in the open without much regard for the status of friends they have (whether good inner circle friends or acuaintances).

As I said, there are parts in this world where the odds are different, probably in Scandinavia too. So, you as an extrovert are perceived as 'weird' by most people because you seem not to be able to keep yourself under control and people feel threatened by you (that is seriously how I feel if someone gets too close to me in one go). Conversely, introverts in an extrovertly-oriented society are maybe not bullied (although if they are, people are less likely to know about it, like with me) but at least found quiet, dreaming and are sometimes even totally misunderstood as disintersted or uninvolved. As in P&P where Bingley is perceived as the quintessential fine young man (a decided etrovert) and Darcy is percieved as proud and conceited (a decided introvert). He is maybe somewhat conceited, but him not talking to anyone but Bingley's sisters and anyone in their party was not down to him being too proud to talk to anyone else because they are beneath him, the prospect of a ball with all strangers is just too much for him and he has a hard time being natural, unlike Bingley. He is not the one to walk up to a lady and ask to dance. I can tell you as girl though, I never did and in our group girls were sometimes ask to invite. I danced for about 10 years. Every time the start of the academic year with a lot of new members was a porspect of fear because what do you say to them?

@Helga:

I feel that I was lucky in meeting my hubby. If I had an introverted hubby, what a mess it would become. At least now I have someone to talk for me. :)

When Mr Kiki (hihi, I like that ;)) went to Prague a year ago for a month, for a course, I just spent the whole month at home alone, with our three cats. I saw no-one. Didn't even feel alone. My husband is already driven up the wall if he has to stay at home during his weeks off for about three days. Oh, wait, he already wishes to go and have a coffee when we have reached the one-day mark...

Shyness was only an example, but my point was that nothing is black and white. You can't really categorize people like that, putting everyone in a line and calling them 'Extrovert' or 'Introvert'.

I think that in youth, one is more likely to be open and give out information, because they have no reason not to trust. In time, common sense and learning give way, and unfortunately in many cases, they learn the hard way, sometimes being very hurt.

I do appreciate your point-- Yes, she certainly still struggles with this everyday, and it's never something that will go away completely. It's a terrible phobia.

That's really not what I was jiving at.

Even as she is an introvert and has phobias she will struggle with, and conquer: Anyone who would see her, would think she were an extrovert.

So, my point is: Nothing is what it seems, and one should never assume. Labels are useful only for memory recollection. Stereotyping is simply the way the human brain works. But, we shouldn't say that being an extrovert is worse than being an introvert, or vice versa.

I'm not pointing at you specifically though. :D It's clear that you have the right idea.

[Helga]

The scale is pretty big and I don't think anybody would manage being 0 or 100. I am kinda low on it (15) but I do manage to talk to people. I don't think it's better to be intro than extro it's just different and the world is definitely not black and white but I do think it is a part of us to try and find a label for things and introvert/extrovert is a part of that.

[tonywalt]

Growing up as an extrovert, I was given a very hard time, and seen as being abnormal, from kindergarten and upwards. I would unabashedly run up to kids I didn't know and ask to be friends. I was friendly, kind, and nice. (Still am, I hope!)

I can honestly say I have never seen or heard of a situation where introverts ganged up extroverts to make them feel adnormal. Where did you grow up where introverts ruled the roost? It's an anomaly worthy of all sorts of studies.

[Delta40]

My friend who has a pyschology degree pointed me to the Eysenck Scale which measures extroversion, neuroticism and psychoticism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eysenck_Personality_Questionnaire

http://similarminds.com/eysenck.html

It gives three test results on the dimensions and a plotting of your introversion and extraversion score on a map.

(Sorry if somebody has already mentioned this scale)

[YesNo]

I just took the test Delta30 mentioned and it looks like today I'm an extrovert. The last test I took said I was an introvert.

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||| 59%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||| 22%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||| 35%

I guess I better be nice to the extroverts.

[Delta40]

I just took the test Delta30 mentioned and it looks like today I'm an extrovert. The last test I took said I was an introvert.

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||| 59%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||| 22%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||| 35%

I guess I better be nice to the extroverts.

lol. My results were:

Extroversion (sociability) 54%
Neuroticism (emotionality) 47%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) 46%

I was a bit worried about the psychoticism score till I read about the link with higher creativity. Where were you on the plotted map Yes/No?

[Paulclem]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||||||||||| 91%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||| 16%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 43%

I these results - again - suggest I'm a pain in the b#tt.

It might be just how I'm feeling today though.:devil:

[Delta40]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||||||||||| 91%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||| 16%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 43%

I these results - again - suggest I'm a pain in the b#tt.

It might be just how I'm feeling today though.:devil:

wow Paul. Do you expose yourself at parties :banana:

[YesNo]

I was a bit worried about the psychoticism score till I read about the link with higher creativity. Where were you on the plotted map Yes/No?
I actually didn't notice the plotted map, but I hadn't closed the page and I'm in the "sanguine" quadrant toward the bottom and near the "phlegmatic" quadrant close to "easy going", "lively", "carefree". Well, tomorrow's another day.

Paulclem--91% extrovert! Wow!

[Delta40]

I was in the upper quadrant of sanguine toward the centre - the circle was around the letter s of sanguine! What does it all mean I wonder. I took the test 3 times but the results came out pretty much the same for me.

[qimissung]

I scored a 33% on extroversion, 55% on neuroticism, and 35% on psychoticism. Here's what it said:

Extroversion results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

Neuroticism results were medium which suggests you are moderately worrying, insecure, emotional, and anxious.

Psychoticism results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).

I had to laugh at the last one, which is unfortunately true, and which I am working on. So don't ask me for any help, 'k?

I do consider myself an introvert. I do like people, but I am worn out after being with a group, even if I like everyone there, and am then glad to be alone. But I will admit to being lonely, often, and I haven't yet figured out how to connect in a satisfactory way with others while still meeting the need I have to be often alone.

I don't think it's better to be one or the other, and to be "introverted" does not mean you don't like people-there's another word for that-but I do think in our current culture being "extroverted" is prized. I have paid a price for that in my professional life, but mainly because I'm not good at kissing b*** at work. Oh, well.

[Delta40]

I hear some prospective employers give these sort of tests so I'd agree that extroversion is prized.

[tailor STATELY]

Extroversion (sociability) |||| 11%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||||| 55%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||| 33%

Oi ! I've actually been working on the sociability side of me for the past 8-years or so & this is the best I can do ?

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY

[Helga]

OK, I took the test and I was :
Extroversion (sociability) |||| 13%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||| 41%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||| 25%

and it said I am: Extroversion results were very low which suggests you are extremely reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

Neuroticism results were moderately low which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Psychoticism results were low which suggests you are overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense too often of your own individual development (martyr complex).

I can only sometimes agree with the last one, I don't do things I don't want to but I am always willing to help and ready to complain when they don't help me...

on the last circle thingy I was in the phlegmatic part almost in between passive and careful

If employers use this test I'll never get a job

I looked at wikipedia to read about phlegmatic and I liked that description and think it's as close as it can get for a stereotype...
Phlegmatic
The phlegmatic temperament is fundamentally relaxed and quiet, ranging from warmly attentive to lazily sluggish. Phlegmatics tend to be content with themselves and are kind. They are accepting and affectionate. They may be receptive and shy and often prefer stability to uncertainty and change. They are consistent, relaxed, calm, rational, curious, and observant, qualities that make them good administrators. They can also be passive-aggressive

[kiki1982]

My score was:

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 33%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||| 14%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||| 30%

Cue other people's descriptions (I'm not going to repeat them).

I am just above the e of even-tempered in the phlegmatic quadrant.
I think Wkipedia's description is quite good, actually.

My German neighbour once cried out (I guess in total surprise/frustration with two children and a (very nice and calm) dog she used to have to run after all the time ;)), 'But you are always so calm!?' She was a very outgoing person and I think she could not understand how I could sit at home alone all day and not be lonely, like she. So, I guess, I am indeed a very content, accepting and tolerant person. And change, ooo, get that far away from me.

If there is any help to be given, I will gladly spend all my time doing it, if asked (I will never offer because I find that intrusive).

As employers indeed do these tests, I usually refused them and said that my personality should not matter, but only my work. And I once rigged one. They never called me back. It was probably rigged badly... :D

I guess I better stay away from you, Paul. :D

[JuniperWoolf]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||| 52%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||| 42%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||||| 53%

Extroversion results were medium which suggests you are moderately talkative, outgoing, sociable and interacting.

Neuroticism results were moderately low which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Psychoticism results were medium medium which suggests you are moderately self interested, willful, and difficult, while still respecting the well being of others.

That's more or less accurate.

[YesNo]

Those Galen types Melancholic, Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic seem more interesting than Introversion-Extroversion. At least there are four of them rather than two.

I got the "martyr complex" as well which I thought was a bit odd, but maybe I just don't understand it.

[Ohmyscience]

Are these qualities intrinsic or fostered through feedback? Are they static? As an introvert I wondered if it could have been different; and yet be the same person. My score for the test put me relatively high on neuroticism in the melancholic quadrant.

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 33%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||||||| 65%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 50%

Can anyone see themselves any differently? I don't think I could see myself not melancholic.

[YesNo]

Are these qualities intrinsic or fostered through feedback? Are they static? As an introvert I wondered if it could have been different; and yet be the same person.
Based on the wikipedia article Delta40 originally cited, I think Eysenck believes these to be genetically based rather than fostered through feedback:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eysenck_Personality_Questionnaire

However, I don't think we are completely determined by our genes--but that is for another thread, perhaps on epigenetics.

[tonywalt]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||||| 69%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||| 37%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||||| 56%

It seems about right for me, but I am surprised that onliters are not more rebellious:)

I do tend to 'rage against the machine' but for good reasons - honestly.

[jajdude]

I scored a 33% on extroversion, 55% on neuroticism, and 35% on psychoticism. Here's what it said:

Extroversion results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

Neuroticism results were medium which suggests you are moderately worrying, insecure, emotional, and anxious.

Psychoticism results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).


Almost exactly the same here, same descriptions:

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 38%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||||| 54%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||| 36%.

[Paulclem]

I actually didn't notice the plotted map, but I hadn't closed the page and I'm in the "sanguine" quadrant toward the bottom and near the "phlegmatic" quadrant close to "easy going", "lively", "carefree". Well, tomorrow's another day.

Paulclem--91% extrovert! Wow!

I also got the same as Qimi with

Psychoticism results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).

My martyr complex combined with my extreme extrovertism means that I'll be a martyr, but everyone will know about it. :biggrin5:

[kiki1982]

:lol:

[Delta40]

I'd like to give a big round of applause for my psychology friend Sharon who led me to the Eysenck scale :hurray:

[OrphanPip]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||| 49%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||| 32%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||| 30%

Which puts me on the line between phlegmatic and sanguine.

[billl]

Extroversion (sociability) | 2%
Neuroticism (emotionality) 0%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||||||||||||||| 100%

So I don't need any of this, enough with all of you.

[qimissung]

Almost exactly the same here, same descriptions:

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 38%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||||| 54%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||| 36%.

Hey friend! :wave:

lol, Paul :party::coolgleamA:

Juniper! :boxing_smiley:

kiki and Helga :angel::angel:

I'm a bit jealous, Pip; I always wanted to be phlegmatic and sanguine, although I didn't know what they meant for the longest time.

billl :rant: I guess you need a :grouphug:

Yes, I am a melancholy baby; I always just thought it was cause I'm a Virgo. :D

I must say, Delta, this is much more interesting than the introversion/extroversion thing. Thank you. Scher! Scher! Come take the test! Inquiring minds and all that.

[BookBeauty]

Eysenck Test Results

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||||||| 72%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||| 42%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 43%

Extroversion results were high which suggests you are overly talkative, outgoing, sociable and interacting at the expense too often of developing your own individual interests and internally based identity.

Neuroticism results were moderately low which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Psychoticism results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).


Sounds about right.

[Helga]

kiki and Helga :angel::angel:

Yes, I am a melancholy baby; I always just thought it was cause I'm a Virgo. :D



I guess that emoticon fits in some ways ;)

you say your a Virgo, I'm Aries and I think I have only one Aries related trait in me and that is being stubborn, I am very stubborn and independent.... I don't think I normal (if there is such a thing) Aries is phlegmatic... I think so at least


I always enjoy taking tests about myself, maybe because that is a place to honest about things you won't admit face to face... in my case it is...

[kiki1982]

I guess I'm a very good Taurus example: stubborn, calm, slow to start, but steadfast in accomplishing the goal they have set (once they have finally started), hate change and new things... Tauruses are probably phlegmatic...

I think that emoticon fits very well. Taurues are angels, really :D

[YesNo]

I used to be a Sagittarius but then I heard "they", whoever they are, added a 13th constellation to the zodiac, no doubt for luck, which is where I would fall. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the new constellation.

In the Chinese horoscope I'm a tiger. I don't know what this stands for exactly, but I hope it does not have anything to do with the "martyr complex" people like me with a low "Psychoticism" measure have received.

[Paulclem]

Well I'm staying a Saggitarian. I've got used to being a horse-man. Trouble is I got the face of the horse....:biggrin5:

[Helga]

I used to be a Sagittarius but then I heard "they", whoever they are, added a 13th constellation to the zodiac, no doubt for luck, which is where I would fall. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the new constellation.

In the Chinese horoscope I'm a tiger. I don't know what this stands for exactly, but I hope it does not have anything to do with the "martyr complex" people like me with a low "Psychoticism" measure have received.



hey, I'm a tiger too and not a very good one, they are apparently very active and have big personalities, at least in some description I read...

I guess in both signs I'm the exception that proves the rule

[Delta40]

The famous exception that proves the rule case causes alot of problems you know Helga. It does my head in - especially when I'm on my first cup of tea of the day :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule

I'm a sagittarius too and a Goat which doesn't sound like me at all!

[qimissung]

I guess that emoticon fits in some ways ;)

you say your a Virgo, I'm Aries and I think I have only one Aries related trait in me and that is being stubborn, I am very stubborn and independent.... I don't think I normal (if there is such a thing) Aries is phlegmatic... I think so at least


I always enjoy taking tests about myself, maybe because that is a place to honest about things you won't admit face to face... in my case it is...

My dad was an Aries. I didn't think he had many of the usual Aries traits, either. He was extremely quiet, but also extremely hard-headed. He did have that quality.

Interestingly (to me, anyway :D) I am a Virgo, with Sagitarrius rising, and in Chinese astrology, I was born in the year of the horse. N-e-i-g-h! (Throws head back and stomps foot) I actually read once that people with the horse sign like to fight in public. I would never!

[Delta40]

I actually read once that people with the horse sign like to fight in public. I would never!

Lol. Well that must mean I throw punches while going 'there, there, it's ok my love. I will tend to your wounds after!'

[papayahed]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||||| 62%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||| 27%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 50%


Extroversion results were moderately high which suggests you are, at times, overly talkative, outgoing, sociable and interacting at the expense of developing your own individual interests and internally based identity.

Neuroticism results were low which suggests you are very relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Psychoticism results were medium medium which suggests you are moderately self interested, willful, and difficult, while still respecting the well being of others.

hmmm

I'm going to show this to my boss, he said I was excitable.

[The Comedian]

Eysenck Test Results

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||| 52%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||| 47%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 45%

That's me.

[qimissung]

Lol. Well that must mean I throw punches while going 'there, there, it's ok my love. I will tend to your wounds after!'

On the nose, Delta, on the nose.

I think I could have guessed you are sociable, papaya, but I would not have thought you were willfull! Or rather, excitable.

Comedian: Yes, but what does it mean?

[Helga]

The famous exception that proves the rule case causes alot of problems you know Helga. It does my head in - especially when I'm on my first cup of tea of the day :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule

I'm a sagittarius too and a Goat which doesn't sound like me at all!

I think I'll use it the wrong way, maybe I can be the exception.... in my book of Chinese zodiac a Sagittarius and a goat it's the best in the bunch, thoughtful and considered...

the Aries and tiger it simply says 'Tiger with a jet engine' that is NOT me....

[jajdude]

That's me.

It sure is.

Those online things are always accurate and without fault. Why, last time they told me my IQ was around 80. I said, no way, that seems awful high, but a friend reassured me that they never fail.

[YesNo]

As I think about it I've been using that exception-proves-the-rule thing wrong for many years.

There's a lot of Sagittarius people here. And I've never run into another tiger, but then I haven't really asked. Which makes me think I'm perhaps more introverted than I scored.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I must have run into another tiger since it is only based on the year one was born. Most of the people I went to school with would have been tigers--all in the same room.

[Scheherazade]

Scher! Scher! Come take the test! Inquiring minds and all that.OK, you twisted my arm! :D

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||||||| 54%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||| 21%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||| 35%

Extroversion results were medium which suggests you are moderately talkative, outgoing, sociable and interacting.

Neuroticism results were low which suggests you are very relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Psychoticism results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).

Obviously this test is flawed... I am kind natured?? Overly kind natured????

[YesNo]

Obviously this test is flawed... I am kind natured?? Overly kind natured????
Don't forget "martyr complex". :)

[qimissung]

I see it all, Scher, although in addition you always seem to exude authority to me, and it is a wee bit hard to reconcile that with the "overly kindly nature"-although you do seem kindly.

And funny.

Is there a test that measures our humor quotient? Or that measures the humor quotient of extroverts vs. introverts?

[tonywalt]

Obviously this test is flawed... I am kind natured?? Overly kind natured????[/QUOTE]

Scheherazade, you certainly are kind natured and may I add very tolerant of even my mildly (but charmingly) disturbed views.

Humbly,

Tony:angel:

[Delta40]

strike that post!

[kiki1982]

hmmm

I'm going to show this to my boss, he said I was excitable.

Maybe that signature with Grover (that's him, isn't it?) doesn't do the calm impression you should give much good. :D


My Chinese zodiac sign is a dog... Extremely faithful, loyal and sticks to you like bubble gum. Maybe I am like bulldog or something, because once I put my teeth into my hubby, he couldn't shake me off even if he had wanted to :D.

[Helga]

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/the-humour-test

this has no scientific basis like the eysenck test and is just for fun so beware!

'Don't worry, you didnt do too badly. And you can be pretty funny. Sad thing is, nobody really cares. Or wants to. Still, you scored pretty well. Just don't put "Comedian" on your CV'

I'm hurt

[Delta40]

sorry Helga I just did it then found I had to sign up so I deleted it.

[Helga]

they just don't think I'm funny, I am a very funny person! and people even laugh sometimes, when they get it, but that is not my fault.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

A little Kingfisher suggested I take the test.
My results:


Extroversion (sociability) 52%
Neuroticism (emotionality) 36%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) 31%

Extroversion results were medium which suggests you are moderately talkative, outgoing, sociable and interacting.
Neuroticism results were moderately low which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.
Psychoticism results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).

[Helga]

we have a lot of martyrs here

[Helga]

sorry Helga I just did it then found I had to sign up so I deleted it.

I didn't have to sign up I just clicked the 'go straight to results' button

[qimissung]

'Don't worry, you didnt do too badly. And you can be pretty funny. Sad thing is, nobody really cares. Or wants to. Still, you scored pretty well. Just don't put "Comedian" on your CV'

I'm hurt



lol, that's funny.

[TheFifthElement]

Ha! That test was funny. My results were:

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 33%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||| 37%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 50%

This test reflects the ideas of Hans Eysenck a pioneer in the field of personality research. Through research and statistical analysis he determined that personality is composed of three main elements: Extroversion, Neuroticism, and Psychoticism. Most current researchers agree on the significance of the first two traits, but there is less consensus on the third (so he may be wrong about it's central importance but it clearly plays some role in personality). Most people will score lower on Psychoticism. While Psychoticism implies more negative qualities than the other two traits (typically), a link has been found is several studies between higher creativity and higher scores on Psychoticism.

Here are your results on each dimension:

Extroversion results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

Neuroticism results were moderately low which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Psychoticism results were medium medium which suggests you are moderately self interested, willful, and difficult, while still respecting the well being of others.

I love the idea of being half-way psychotic :D

[jajdude]

It's all nonsense. There is no measurement of personality or intelligence or any of that. People know this. I'm not sure what has been tried, but these test things are silly. I cannot put you in a box.

So, never mind the experts. They still do not know a thing. This crap is way too hard. Nobody knows.

I like it that way.

[qimissung]

Ha! That test was funny. My results were:

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 33%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||| 37%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||||||||| 50%

This test reflects the ideas of Hans Eysenck a pioneer in the field of personality research. Through research and statistical analysis he determined that personality is composed of three main elements: Extroversion, Neuroticism, and Psychoticism. Most current researchers agree on the significance of the first two traits, but there is less consensus on the third (so he may be wrong about it's central importance but it clearly plays some role in personality). Most people will score lower on Psychoticism. While Psychoticism implies more negative qualities than the other two traits (typically), a link has been found is several studies between higher creativity and higher scores on Psychoticism.

Here are your results on each dimension:

Extroversion results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

Neuroticism results were moderately low which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Psychoticism results were medium medium which suggests you are moderately self interested, willful, and difficult, while still respecting the well being of others.

I love the idea of being half-way psychotic :D

Ha! I knew it! :D

[Maximilianus]

I used to be a Sagittarius but then I heard "they", whoever they are, added a 13th constellation to the zodiac, no doubt for luck, which is where I would fall. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the new constellation.
It's Ophiuchus, which in Greek means "the serpent-bearer." Anyway, I would say you are still a Sagittarius according to an article I've read. It says that although the constellation belongs to the zodiac, the twelve-fold division into signs remains as it's always been because each sign spans 30° of celestial longitude, which is approximately the distance the Sun travels in a month. Therefore, this mathematical division will always be the same, since math will always be the same math whenever you need to divide a cake into equal slices. This article states that the constellation of Ophiuchus occupies most of the sign of Sagittarius.


In the Chinese horoscope I'm a tiger. I don't know what this stands for exactly, but I hope it does not have anything to do with the "martyr complex" people like me with a low "Psychoticism" measure have received.
I once read that tigers, according to the Chinese horoscope, are prone to war/warlike activities, and therefore feel a passion for weapons and such. Being a tiger, I'm not really feeling the urge to wage a war right now, though there are several weapons that have been calling my attention for ages. Perhaps being a Libra on "the other side of mysticism" has made me more "balanced." Now, if you really are a bellicose sort of person, then your chances to die a martyr are reasonably high regardless of horoscopes and personality tests :thumbs_up:


I was born in the year of the horse. N-e-i-g-h! (Throws head back and stomps foot) I actually read once that people with the horse sign like to fight in public. I would never!
I was born in the year of the tiger, a seemingly warlike fellow, and I'm not ripping people's throats in public either. All these astrology mumbo jumbo is very much what it is... mumbo jumbo... but dang! It feels dead awesome to be born ferocious! http://fc08.deviantart.net/images3/i/2004/109/b/f/Crazy_Tiger.gif
Each person shapes their character on their own, though I might change my mind if one day a constellation provides an account of what she's done for me http://smiles.kolobok.us/standart/scratch_one-s_head.gif

[Maximilianus]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 35%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||||| 52%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||| 23%


My results on each dimension:

Extroversion results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

Neuroticism results were medium which suggests you are moderately worrying, insecure, emotional, and anxious.

Psychoticism results were low which suggests you are overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense too often of your own individual development (martyr complex).



According to my own findings about myself, the above feels pretty accurate. I always wanted to die a martyr... one day a park or street would be named after me and that is totally wonderful! http://smiles.kolobok.us/artists/just_cuz/JC_rockin.gif

[YesNo]

It's Ophiuchus, which in Greek means "the serpent-bearer." Anyway, I would say you are still a Sagittarius according to an article I've read. It says that although the constellation belongs to the zodiac, the twelve-fold division into signs remains as it's always been because each sign spans 30° of celestial longitude, which is approximately the distance the Sun travels in a month. Therefore, this mathematical division will always be the same, since math will always be the same math whenever you need to divide a cake into equal slices. This article states that the constellation of Ophiuchus occupies most of the sign of Sagittarius.
I'm relieved that I can still consider myself a Sagittarius. I always thought it was a nice constellation.



I was born in the year of the tiger, a seemingly warlike fellow, and I'm not ripping people's throats in public either.
Yeah, as a tiger myself, I know one has to keep that under control. :D

[qimissung]

Extroversion (sociability) |||||||||| 35%
Neuroticism (emotionality) |||||||||||||| 52%
Psychoticism (rebelliousness) |||||| 23%


My results on each dimension:

Extroversion results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

Neuroticism results were medium which suggests you are moderately worrying, insecure, emotional, and anxious.

Psychoticism results were low which suggests you are overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense too often of your own individual development (martyr complex).



According to my own findings about myself, the above feels pretty accurate. I always wanted to die a martyr... one day a park or street would be named after me and that is totally wonderful! http://smiles.kolobok.us/artists/just_cuz/JC_rockin.gif

It would be totally wonderful, Max.


Would it be like this one of Freddie Mercury in Montreax:




http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://sagdeyev.com/images/stories/blogpics/2011/montreux/Freddie-Mercury-statue-Montreux-4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sagdeyev.com/en/blog/2011/visit-to-montreux-may&h=854&w=1280&sz=187&tbnid=_luNLvsV3WtUCM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstatue%2Bfreddie%2Bmontreux%26tbm%3Di sch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=statue+freddie+montreux&docid=BMHRTf9cLSYG9M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d-amT4HyIefq2AWtpZn1Dg&ved=0CHwQ9QEwBA&dur=164



or this one, of Christ the Redeemer in Rio:



http://www.destination360.com/south-america/brazil/rio-de-janiero/christ-redeemer


Whatever or wherever it is, it should be extravagantly generous, just like you.