Atheists are hypocrites

[Patrick_Bateman]

Although not true of all non-believers, I find it egregious that an atheist can superciliously lambast my beliefs - they cannot disprove any more than I can prove the existence of a God - can decry religion and mock the stories of the Bible, indict religion for the wars and misery it has caused.

HOWEVER they quite happily take the benefits that these 'ridiculous Bible stories' bring. (e.g. Celebration of Christmas and Easter; exchanging gifts and Easter eggs.)

If atheists (materialists of the highest order) want to enjoy these religious festivals, then they should not encroach as forcibly and vehemently as they do on religion and its institutions. (e.g. Secularists, many of whom are atheists, want to do away with faith schools on the pretext that they exclude non-believers from being able to attend these schools, many of which are better performers than state schools.)

I, myself am against organised religion but I believe in God (not a Creator God but a God that is synonymous with the Universe)

I think Atheism's fight should not be against faith itself but against religious authority.

Popes, imams, bishops, clerics etc are responsible for the devastation of years past, not the beliefs themselves.

It was Gregory VII who created the 'soldiers of Christ'
and Urban II who incited them to drive out the Muslims from the Holy Lands in what we call the Crusades.

Also if Atheists are serious and steadfast in their belief then they should not partake in religious festivals.

[DocHeart]

What I do not understand is how this post is related to religious texts (that is the category it was posted in). It seems more like an unsolicited exposition of your own beliefs.

Perhaps the forum should have a category for posts like this. Are the moderators reading? I'm looking forward to the "Unsolicited expositions of your own beliefs" category, where I'm going to contribute my thoughts on how non-believers should not be allowed any apple sauce with their Christmas roast, and if they do somehow manage to eat apple sauce they should get hemorrhoids afterwards.

[Darcy88]

Christmas is not a religious festival. Its a celebration of the winter solstice, or was so originally, and pretty much still is. What's a tree got to do with Jesus. For the overwhelming majority of people where i liveve neither Christmas nor Easter are about religion.

And trying to separate religious beliefs from religious leaders is damn near impossible. What most Christians believe today is the product of such leaders, going back to Niciae or however its spelt.

[PoeticPassions]

Wow, what a way to generalize, stereotype and group a large amount of people into one category. Most atheists I know (myself included) do not vehemently oppose anything, nor do they force their opinion on others.

Moreover, your one post is full of contradictions. You chastise atheists for opposing religious institutions, yet you yourself seem to be vehemently against them (popes, imams, etc are the representatives and building blocks of these institutions).

Also, I would like to mention that most 'religious' holidays have actually been really secularizes and commercialized. I don't agree with that anyway, and I rarely celebrate them, or I celebrate everything by showing respect for the holiday and wishing good health and cheer to my friends who celebrate a variety of holidays. Besides, Christmas, Easter, etc. are full of non-religious traditions and customs, as they are based mainly on pagan traditions... An Easter bunny has nothing to do with Jesus, neither does a Christmas tree, sharing of presents, or even celebrating Jesus's birth in December, as he was born sometime in summer.

**** Ok I was writing this as Darcy posted his... so sorry for the overlap or repetition.

[blazeofglory]

Although not true of all non-believers, I find it egregious that an atheist can superciliously lambast my beliefs - they cannot disprove any more than I can prove the existence of a God - can decry religion and mock the stories of the Bible, indict religion for the wars and misery it has caused.

HOWEVER they quite happily take the benefits that these 'ridiculous Bible stories' bring. (e.g. Celebration of Christmas and Easter; exchanging gifts and Easter eggs.)

If atheists (materialists of the highest order) want to enjoy these religious festivals, then they should not encroach as forcibly and vehemently as they do on religion and its institutions. (e.g. Secularists, many of whom are atheists, want to do away with faith schools on the pretext that they exclude non-believers from being able to attend these schools, many of which are better performers than state schools.)

I, myself am against organised religion but I believe in God (not a Creator God but a God that is synonymous with the Universe)

I think Atheism's fight should not be against faith itself but against religious authority.

Popes, imams, bishops, clerics etc are responsible for the devastation of years past, not the beliefs themselves.

It was Gregory VII who created the 'soldiers of Christ'
and Urban II who incited them to drive out the Muslims from the Holy Lands in what we call the Crusades.

Also if Atheists are serious and steadfast in their belief then they should not partake in religious festivals.
This is a matter of discussion and if we look at any historical accounts we come across so many battles fought in the name of religion.

I do not like to be reproachful of any lines of thougt for both have points or reasons to oppose the other

[JuniperWoolf]

Spring festivals, harvest festivals and solstice festivals have existed in one form or another in every culture since before recorded history. Africa, the Middle East, North American aboriginals, Ancient Greece, Rome, and on and on and on. Japan LOVES festivals that follow the seasons and harvests and according to most polls over seventy percent of them don't believe in god(s). Atheists in the western world (which is really who you're talking to) feel the desire to get together and engage in revelry at times of seasonal change just like every other group of people. These festivals are a part of being human, not a part of being religious.

For many people in the western world, even people who belong to a religion, holdiays aren't even about god - they're about getting together with the people you love at set times during the cycle of the year, feasting, drinking and being merry. Most people picture eggs and bunnies when they think about easter (non-religious symbols, or if they are religious, they belong to a nature-based religion) and eating ham with their families - these symbols have a much stronger association in the public's minds than Jesus coming back from the dead (and spring festivals based on a story in which people come back from the dead has been around a lot longer than Jesus - the earth appears to resurrect, so resurrection mythology and traditions in spring are common). For Christmas, most people immediately picture evergreens, lights, gift-giving, turkey and visiting family, not the birth of Jesus (which, like PP said, actually happened in summer). The trees and lights don't make sense as symbols if you try to make them work within the context of Christianity. They make sense if you think of them like this: we put up lights to brighten up the dark and we bring in trees because it feels like all growing things have died forever. We give gifts and hang out with the people we love to keep our spirits high because it's so cold, dark and depressing. These feelings aren't exclusive to religion.

No group has a patent on holidays, so chill out holiday hog. Stop trying to kill everyone's fun and exclude people just because they have different beliefs.

[Pendragon]

If we are intolerant of others' beliefs do we have any right to expect them to honor ours? Freedom of Religion is Freedom for all religions, and also freedom from religion. Thomas Jefferson once said: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Words to live by. God bless.

[OrphanPip]

Where do you get the idea that many secularist want to do away with religious schools? The basis of secularism is to protect freedom of thought and expression from government, it's not even an atheist ideal, after all it is generally held to be a central idea of modern Liberal Democracy. Certainly it's fair to argue that the state shouldn't be funding religious schools or religious programs. Even so, in the religious school thread I defended the funding of catholic schools by the state on the basis that they do provide services to non-Catholics.

Anyway, this complaint about atheist celebrating Christmas is silly. Almost everyone I know celebrates Christmas in the West, including Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sihks, and Buddhists. The religious element of the celebration is simply removed. After all, these holidays are singled out by the government as holidays, so even if they were completely random days they would end up being times of celebration and gathering.

[cafolini]

Where do you get the idea that many secularist want to do away with religious schools? The basis of secularism is to protect freedom of thought and expression from government, it's not even an atheist ideal, after all it is generally held to be a central idea of modern Liberal Democracy. Certainly it's fair to argue that the state shouldn't be funding religious schools or religious programs. Even so, in the religious school thread I defended the funding of catholic schools by the state on the basis that they do provide services to non-Catholics.

Anyway, this complaint about atheist celebrating Christmas is silly. Almost everyone I know celebrates Christmas in the West, including Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sihks, and Buddhists. The religious element of the celebration is simply removed. After all, these holidays are singled out by the government as holidays, so even if they were completely random days they would end up being times of celebration and gathering.

Well said. Correct with very high probability.

[Varenne Rodin]

I don't care what people believe in. I care about how they treat each other.

Pagan May Day celebrations were largely about f***ing and fertility. Spring and renewal. May poles, birds and bunnies. Sex symbols. If you're going to tell me I can't celebrate randy lusty fun, I will tell you good day, sir. ;D

[Varenne Rodin]

If we are intolerant of others' beliefs do we have any right to expect them to honor ours? Freedom of Religion is Freedom for all religions, and also freedom from religion. Thomas Jefferson once said: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Words to live by. God bless.

Thank you, Pendragon. Happy Easter. :)

[KCurtis]

Spring festivals, harvest festivals and solstice festivals have existed in one form or another in every culture since before recorded history. Africa, the Middle East, North American aboriginals, Ancient Greece, Rome, and on and on and on. Japan LOVES festivals that follow the seasons and harvests and according to most polls over seventy percent of them don't believe in god(s). Atheists in the western world (which is really who you're talking to) feel the desire to get together and engage in revelry at times of seasonal change just like every other group of people. These festivals are a part of being human, not a part of being religious.

For many people in the western world, even people who belong to a religion, holdiays aren't even about god - they're about getting together with the people you love at set times during the cycle of the year, feasting, drinking and being merry. Most people picture eggs and bunnies when they think about easter (non-religious symbols, or if they are religious, they belong to a nature-based religion) and eating ham with their families - these symbols have a much stronger association in the public's minds than Jesus coming back from the dead (and spring festivals based on a story in which people come back from the dead has been around a lot longer than Jesus - the earth appears to resurrect, so resurrection mythology and traditions in spring are common). For Christmas, most people immediately picture evergreens, lights, gift-giving, turkey and visiting family, not the birth of Jesus (which, like PP said, actually happened in summer). The trees and lights don't make sense as symbols if you try to make them work within the context of Christianity. They make sense if you think of them like this: we put up lights to brighten up the dark and we bring in trees because it feels like all growing things have died forever. We give gifts and hang out with the people we love to keep our spirits high because it's so cold, dark and depressing. These feelings aren't exclusive to religion.

No group has a patent on holidays, so chill out holiday hog. Stop trying to kill everyone's fun and exclude people just because they have different beliefs.

I love this post of yours! I won't say anything, because it is perfect- and now I really do want to celebrate Spring!
Thanks

[Varenne Rodin]

I love this post of yours! I won't say anything, because it is perfect- and now I really do want to celebrate Spring!
Thanks

I agree. Beautiful post by Juniper.

[Charles Darnay]

You know, I was just at at a Pesach seder (it's a Jewish thing) and there were Jews there and atheists tere, and even a Christian, and we were all happy and drunk.... So to the OP, I'm sorry you have to be so consumed with religion that you can't be happy with the people you are with.

[BienvenuJDC]

You know, I was just at at a Pesach seder (it's a Jewish thing) and there were Jews there and atheists tere, and even a Christian, and we were all happy and drunk.... So to the OP, I'm sorry you have to be so consumed with religion that you can't be happy with the people you are with.

Actually, he said that he was AGAINST religion, not consumed with it. I'm not sure where he stands. However, please visit my newest thread.

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1130458#post1130458

[JuniperWoolf]

If we are intolerant of others' beliefs do we have any right to expect them to honor ours? Freedom of Religion is Freedom for all religions, and also freedom from religion. Thomas Jefferson once said: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Words to live by. God bless.

Thanks Pen, that you're a Christian with peaceful open-mindedness towards all religions is what I like best about you. It's really good to see, because the closed minded Christians tend to be the most vocal so it's easy for people to wrongly assume that all Christians are closed minded.


I love this post of yours! I won't say anything, because it is perfect- and now I really do want to celebrate Spring!
Thanks


I agree. Beautiful post by Juniper.

Aww, shucks. :blush:


You know, I was just at at a Pesach seder (it's a Jewish thing) and there were Jews there and atheists tere, and even a Christian, and we were all happy and drunk.

:yesnod: My mommy makes latkes throughout December and she's Protestant.