Anyone up for Pere Goriot?

[Prince Smiles]

-Have you had Old Goriot sitting on your bookshelf for a while and have never got around to cracking it?
-Fancy reading a French Classic?
-Want a change from those John Grisham novels?
-Just finished Harry Potter Thirty-Three and at a loose end?

I shall start reading Honore De Balzac’s ‘Pere Goriot’ in a couple of days and was wondering if anyone is interested in reading the novel in tandem?


Somerset Maugham placed Pere Goriot at #2 in his G.O.A.T list; it must be worth the read. (#1 War And Peace)


I have a Penguin Classic edition; Translated by M.A. Crawford

Best whishes,

P. Smiles

[MANICHAEAN]

Dear Prince
Tandem offer I cannot take up as I've already read it. The only thing I can offer is, that if ever there was a man manipulated by his daughters it was Pere Goriot. In fact the more you get into it, the more you wonder if he was a saint, or just plain dumb.

Regards
M.

[Prince Smiles]

Tandem offer I cannot take up as I've already read it. The only thing I can offer is, that if ever there was a man manipulated by his daughters it was Pere Goriot. In fact the more you get into it, the more you wonder if he was a saint, or just plain dumb.



MANICHAEAN,
thanks for the input. The dust cover has a reference to King Lear, so I got a sense of what was in store.

I'll post some thoughts during and after the reading. Please feel free to comment as well.

Your humble servant,

The Prince

[Tallulah]

Dear Prince
Tandem offer I cannot take up as I've already read it. The only thing I can offer is, that if ever there was a man manipulated by his daughters it was Pere Goriot. In fact the more you get into it, the more you wonder if he was a saint, or just plain dumb.

Regards
M.

LOL! I thought he was just plain dumb...

[Charles Darnay]

This books has been on my "to read" this for at least 5 years now, probably more. It just never manages to climb to the top. Maybe this summer?

[Svidrigailov]

It's been years since I read his Lost Illusions trilogy, so the coffee man's due a reappraisal to see if I enjoy him as much or more than before. Old Goriot's been lurking in my book cupboard for a long time, but I'm not ready to let him out yet. I'd rather ready myself through random passages from Balzac books I've already finished first.

How long before you share your feelings on it, prince?

[Prince Smiles]

I finished the book last week and have being thinking about it since then.

It is indeed a brilliant work of fiction. This is the first work by Balzac that I have read, but I do enjoy the French roman-fleuve writers, being familiar with works of: Flaubert, Zola, and Proust.

Pere Goriot is approximately 300 pages in length, so not a physically daunting task.

The beginning offers a very thorough description of the Maison Vanquer boarding house, and I thought I was in for some heavy reading. After this verbose description is over and the scene for a lot the action in the novel set, the going gets much easier.

It is indeed a gripping story and without going too much into the plot and spoiling anyone’s reading pleasure I will just say:

There are many memorable characters in the book, not just Goriot and his two daughters, Delphine and Anastasie.

Rastignac and Vautrin are two such examples.

The law student Rastignac who is central to proceedings is a very engaging character.
You will enjoy experiencing the Paris of 1819 through his eyes.

Vautrin, although I thought somewhat too articulate for a criminal on the run has some of the best dialogue in the book. He is a perfect vehicle for Balzac to offer a sneering voice at the decadence and hypocrisy of the Parisian bourgeoisie.

Balzac’s themes of corruption, greed, and love are masterfully exemplified.
The theme of money jangles through the whole book, I counted half a dozen names for coinage.

The dialogue is very realistic, I found myself chuckling many a time at how I predicted what would have been my natural response to situations.


In fact the more you get into it, the more you wonder if he was a saint, or just plain dumb.



Manichaean, I think to dismiss Goriot as just plain dumb is not giving much credit to Balzac’s great literary creation. Surely we would not dismiss Prince Lev Nikolayevich Myshkin as an ‘idiot’?

Goriot’s character is just too complex for that. He made his fortune in the chaos of the French Revolution when the price of bread was sky high and it does seem, if you pardon my use of a proper noun instead of a verb, ‘forrest-gumped’ his way to riches. At least he is a self-made man though. His parsimoniousness along with the widow Madame Vauquer’s juxtaposed alongside the spendthrift elite offers stark contrast.

Goriot is monomaniacal. The obsession for his daughters led to their downfall. Anastasie actually blames her father at one point for allowing her get into a bad marriage and ruining her life.

His obsession to see his daughters succeed in society was more important to him than their actual welfare.


The theme of obsession throughout the novel runs strong, obsession with money, social class, and appearances. Apart from Goriot, everyone is obsessed by money. Goriot is not. He is obsessed with an obsession for his daughters, he wants them to shine in society even if they are unhappy and he has to live in abject poverty. I would sooner call him a selfish b*stard than a dummy.

And a saint? Well, no. His obsession makes him arguably the most selfish character in the book.

If you find that you have this great novel collecting dust on a bookshelf and haven’t gotten around to reading it yet, I can say with conviction that you are in for a real treat when you do.

[MANICHAEAN]

Good review Prince, if I might say so. Although it was quite some time since I last read Pere Goriot, it brought back a lot of the contents to me.

Rastignac you will find reappears, (and dare I say, “grows”), in subsequent works by Balzac.

The money theme? It’s as old as the hills and especially relevant to this period. I’m sure you have read a few of Oscar Wilde’s similarly theme related, light hearted pieces from the other side of “La Manche.”

I take issue with you on whether the old guy was a saint or just plain dumb, though from a different perspective. Having raised two daughters in the UK, (one of whom aspires to be an actress), I cannot help but regard Goriot as a fool to have spoilt them to the extent, that they basically were callous to their father’s situation. Sure, Balzac created a great character, but it’s a bit like when I return to England from overseas and people talk about characters in Coronation Street or East Enders as if they constituted reality.

Ah, but there’s the rub! A good writer can transcend fiction!

[Prince Smiles]

Good review Prince, if I might say so. Although it was quite some time since I last read Pere Goriot, it brought back a lot of the contents to me.

Rastignac you will find reappears, (and dare I say, “grows”), in subsequent works by Balzac.

The money theme? It’s as old as the hills and especially relevant to this period. I’m sure you have read a few of Oscar Wilde’s similarly theme related, light hearted pieces from the other side of “La Manche.”

I take issue with you on whether the old guy was a saint or just plain dumb, though from a different perspective. Having raised two daughters in the UK, (one of whom aspires to be an actress), I cannot help but regard Goriot as a fool to have spoilt them to the extent, that they basically were callous to their father’s situation. Sure, Balzac created a great character, but it’s a bit like when I return to England from overseas and people talk about characters in Coronation Street or East Enders as if they constituted reality.

Ah, but there’s the rub! A good writer can transcend fiction!

Good post Manichaean.
I most certainly respect your very poignant opine good sir, especially as you have the father’s perspective to aid as a frame of reference in such matters.

May I be so forward as to inquire whether your daughter has aspirations for the stage or film?

In total agreement regarding the soap opera claptrap. I am often caught off guard when viewing, for exmaple, a heinous crime report on news websites to find out upon closer inspection that the said crime was actually fictitious and was in fact committed in Emmerdale Farm!
By St Dunstan, what is the world coming to?

Manichaean,
my very best wishes to you, and many thanks for helping me through my first Balzac. Like my first pony and my first kiss; my first Balzac shall never be forgotten.

[Prince Smiles]

It's been years since I read his Lost Illusions trilogy, so the coffee man's due a reappraisal to see if I enjoy him as much or more than before. Old Goriot's been lurking in my book cupboard for a long time, but I'm not ready to let him out yet. I'd rather ready myself through random passages from Balzac books I've already finished first.

How long before you share your feelings on it, prince?

I do beg your pardon Svidrigailov.
Please read my feelings in the prior posting.

Best wishes,

P. Smiles

[MANICHAEAN]

Prince
Now that you and Balzac are "an item", might I suggest you continue your advances in the direction of the following two works, which I'm sure you will enjoy:

1. Eugenie Grandet.

2. La Peau de Chagrin (The Wild ***'s Skin.)

Best regards
M.

[MANICHAEAN]

Prince
For ***s, the cryptic clue is either glutus maximus or another word for a female donkey.
M.

[Prince Smiles]

Prince
Now that you and Balzac are "an item", might I suggest you continue your advances in the direction of the following two works, which I'm sure you will enjoy:

1. Eugenie Grandet.

2. La Peau de Chagrin (The Wild ***'s Skin.)

Best regards
M.

Monsieur M,

Thank’ye kindly for the reading suggestions. Maraming salamat.

I decided to cross the English Channel after Old Goriot was laid to rest, and I am now seeing what Sir Walter Scott’s “Ivanhoe” has to say for himself.
The novel is set in Richard Coeur de Lion and brother John’s time, so with these Plantagenet boys running riot, it is easy to mistake the setting for France at times.

To be honest, I was surprised Ivanhoe is an Englishman (Saxon), with a name like that, I would have thought he might have been a Russian prostitute.

Monsieur M, I definitely want to become more acquainted with Honoré Balzac’s work, and your kinds suggestions are very much appreciated.

You will find me much scraping, bowing, and genuflecting,

Prince Smiles

[Svidrigailov]

I didn't enjoy Eugenie Grandet, to the point where all my other unread Balzacs have languished on the backburner ever since. But then I do have the indolent habit of picking up my attentiveness to his novels by the 80th page or so, such is their marathon length; and in Grandet's case, it was already half over by that point.

One of Honore's quirks I'd missed before was the complete absence of chapter breaks in some of his books. I flicked through Cousin Bette and Old Goriot today, with a view to sampling an opening section or more, but the virtually uninterrupted stream of text in both was a bit unappealing. I suppose I've been spoilt by the more conventional format found in Lost Illusions.

I'm nonetheless indebted to the eccentric prince for renewing my curiosity regarding the caffeine addict, and as a result I'll be poring over his progenitorial prose sooner than I would have been otherwise.

[Prince Smiles]

I didn't enjoy Eugenie Grandet, to the point where all my other unread Balzacs have languished on the backburner ever since. But then I do have the indolent habit of picking up my attentiveness to his novels by the 80th page or so, such is their marathon length; and in Grandet's case, it was already half over by that point.

One of Honore's quirks I'd missed before was the complete absence of chapter breaks in some of his books. I flicked through Cousin Bette and Old Goriot today, with a view to sampling an opening section or more, but the virtually uninterrupted stream of text in both was a bit unappealing. I suppose I've been spoilt by the more conventional format found in Lost Illusions.

I'm nonetheless indebted to the eccentric prince for renewing my curiosity regarding the caffeine addict, and as a result I'll be poring over his progenitorial prose sooner than I would have been otherwise.

Svidrigailov,
I see you have Cousin Bette, and Le Pere Goriot in your hands. You are tempted, aren’t you?

An interesting point regarding the absence of chapter breaks. Obviously readers have carte blanche to stop reading the book at any time they choose, but most opt for the end of the chapter under normal conditions I would assume.

I did find myself wondering at times just how long a certain scene would take to play out before I could award myself a break.

I had some fun with the autonomy Honore granted me however:

- And Rastignac rushed into the Mme. Vauquer’s dining in the most agitated state, and bellowed at the top of his lungs to Vautrin…. (close the book)

- Looking deeply and longingly into her beautiful eyes, Rastignac plucked up the courage to say … (bookmarked)

- Delphine knew it was the last time she would… (anyone fancy a pint?)


progenitorial

What a wonderful vocabulary item. Having tackled the crossword this morning, I had already doffed my thinking cap. “Progenitorial” sent me looking for where I had discarded it.

[Italian83]

I read it in Italian when I was in high school, "Papà Goriot" in Italian.
You've just made me want to read it again... the only thing I remember is that I felt sorry for him and couldn't understand his weakness and inertia... But that was the 14-year-old me, I'm sure that now I would be able to grasp more significant meanings and overtones.
I think that any person who claims to love literature cannot avoid reading it... It definitely belongs to the "gods" of literature. You may also not like it in the end, but you must read it at least once.

[fb0252]

nice reviews! brings back good memories of my own reading of Pere Goriot some years back. also Penguin edition. I read it close in time to Flaubert's Sentimental Education and had some comparison for these two French authors. I much preferred Balzac whom I though was much superior in easily dealing with complex moral and social issues whereas Flaubert imo tries a bit too hard and glamorizes questionable morals and relations between men and women, sentimental education being basically seduction of another man's wife and how that is the nature of things. I'd enthusiastically read more Balzac and pass on Flaubert.