A book that stands out the most in your mind

[cacian]

and why?
one book that stands out for me is


Carl Honore - In Praise of Slow -
because it summed up everything about modern life and the pace was enjoyable.

[Dark Muse]

If I had to choose only one book for me it would be The Magus by John Fowles. It was a truly mind boggling book to read. It kept me on the edge of the seat the whole time, and I never knew what was going to happen next. The end blew me away and it was like nothing I have ever read before.

[cacian]

If I had to choose only one book for me it would be The Magus by John Fowles. It was a truly mind boggling book to read. It kept me on the edge of the seat the whole time, and I never knew what was going to happen next. The end blew me away and it was like nothing I have ever read before.

did you have a favourite character or a scene?

[Dark Muse]

did you have a favourite character or a scene?

I loved Maurice Conchis and as far as favorite scene, almost everything that happens on the island.

[mal4mac]

Seneca's letters - a source of great, rational wisdom, without a hint of Christianity (hence rational...) I might have mentioned Epicurus' extant remains, but Seneca quotes most of his good stuff anyway, so I'll stick with Seneca. Also they are incredibly easy to read. Why didn't Kant, Heidegger, et.al. follow his example?

I also like Honore's "In Praise of Slow". Seneca composed his letters in exile, i.e. had slow living forced upon him! His letters certainly praise the slow life...

[Juan Perez]

I would mention 4:

"Antes que anochezca" (Before night falls) - Reinaldo Arenas
"Crónica de una muerte anunciada" - G. García Márquez
"Shiiku" - Kenzaburo Oé (translated to Spanish as "La presa")
"Poeta en Nueva York" - Federico García Lorca

[Bustrofedon]

2666 by Bolano. This book rekindled my love of literature when the flame was flagging.

Always wanted to read The Magus.

[Nate]

ulysses by james joyce for the beauty of its pros, its comedy, and its structural complexity

[JBI]

Selections of refined literature or Wenxuan. It's the premier collection of works in East Asia.

[Lokasenna]

Well, I seem to spend most of my life with my nose in the Poetic Edda...

[Snowqueen]

There are many, but I would like to mention War and Peace and an Urdu novel Aangan (cortile) by Khadija Mastoor. It’s a story of a family in the sub-continent who had to make some tough choices after the Partition of British India.

[PeterL]

The greatest novel of the 20th century is The Ship that Sailed the Time Stream by G. C. Edmondson, and its sequel, To Sail the Century Sea makes it a more complete trip.

[Yaur]

If we are going for the best book I would say Lolita by Nabokov. The scene where Lo wants to call her mom and the scene where Humbert and Dick meet are both seriously powerful stuff. The prose and wordplay are exceptional throughout and, unlike Joyce, never feels forced.

If we are going for the one book you would want with you on the desert island it would have to be The Illuminatus Trilogy. Because it's fun and continues to be fun after multiple readings.

[Vota]

There are so many amazing works I have yet to read. The majority of my reading at the present, comes from science fiction and fantasy I have read. Granted, there are many books and series that I have absolutely loved, but there is one short novel that embodies driving force and rage; The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester. This book is the page-turner of page-turners. I read this book roughly 10 years ago and I still remember the all out drive for revenge of the book. An absolute must read/own science fiction book in my emphatic opinion.

[Nate]

If we are going for the best book I would say Lolita by Nabokov. The scene where Lo wants to call her mom and the scene where Humbert and Dick meet are both seriously powerful stuff. The prose and wordplay are exceptional throughout and, unlike Joyce, never feels forced.

i'm enthusiastic about nabokov, but joyce's superiority was clear even to him

"Oh, yes, let people compare me to Joyce by all means, but my English is patball to Joyce's champion game."
-nabokov

nabokov also selected ulysses as the greatest novel of the 20th century

[JBI]

As a sort of development of this thread, let me reverse this question a bit and ask, how many of you have what I would call go-to works that frame your reference. For instance, for scholars, there seems to be a trait of attaching oneself to one artist or work (or small body of works) as a sort of specialty, which becomes a significant part of one's life. So for my professor, for instance, he says that he has been reading and editing and debating Zhuangzi for well over 30 years, to the point where he not only has the text memorized, but also much of the significant scholarly body and footnotes that accompany it (including different punctuations and alternative manuscript discrepancies).

So for us on this board, in terms of personal connection with a text, which do you think is perhaps the significant work(s) of your world of reading.

[Nate]

As a sort of development of this thread, let me reverse this question a bit and ask, how many of you have what I would call go-to works that frame your reference. For instance, for scholars, there seems to be a trait of attaching oneself to one artist or work (or small body of works) as a sort of specialty, which becomes a significant part of one's life. So for my professor, for instance, he says that he has been reading and editing and debating Zhuangzi for well over 30 years, to the point where he not only has the text memorized, but also much of the significant scholarly body and footnotes that accompany it (including different punctuations and alternative manuscript discrepancies).

So for us on this board, in terms of personal connection with a text, which do you think is perhaps the significant work(s) of your world of reading.

ulysses is the most significant to my life, although i'm nowhere nearly as connected to any book as your professor is to zhuangzi. i first read ulysses 4 years ago, and have reread it many times and memorized certain passages. i know where every significant character is in dublin at any given time of day. i've got a shelf of lit criticism on ulysses as well as finnegans wake (a book i have a long way to go on, but hope to eventually master)

[Paulclem]

Interesting addition JBI.

I've been thinking recently - for a change - about Charles Bukowski as I read his Notes of a Dirty Old Man, and I wondered why I liked it. I didn't ike all of it - some of his attitudes are lacking empathy in my view - but what I really liked was his outsider view. This term - which I picked up when I was looking him up briefly - seems to express his empathy with all the good and bad attitudes you can find in the working and underclass in the US, and also in the UK.

Reflecting on that and the question, I think poets rather than novelists have influenced me more and touched on those things which I identify in myself. Philip Larkin and Ted Hughes immediately come to mind - Larkin is an outsider in his poetry and in his actual position in life. (Hull is not a nice place to live, yet he chose to live there out of the way). Ted Hughes for his Yorkshireness, though his rural focus excludes my largely urban experience.

For the urban and rule breaking aspect that I like, I was influenced by the Mersey Poets who formed part of an English beat tradition in the wake of the Beatles. I'm also middle class, and Eliot with The Wasteland and Prufrock in particular resonate. My brother was chatting to me at the weekend about one of his diversity lessons where he, as a now middle class middle manager in training, was able to demonstrate that with his socio-economic background he really shouldn't be where he is - an MA graduate with a salary over the average wage. This reflects my own situation, and the situation in England where class is a real factor in your position in life, and that sense of outsiderness is eviden in very everyday things - even down to how you like your tea/ coffee in England, and how you used to like it. (Used to have it with sugar - now no sugar, reflecting my aspiring middle class status).

Bukowski's work is new to me, and so he doesn't form part of that reference yet, but he does fit into the outsider tradition which seems to correlate to the anomaly of my position. Having said that, my brother and I were able to refer to our original underclass types watching rugby and having a few beers.

[mortalterror]

As a sort of development of this thread, let me reverse this question a bit and ask, how many of you have what I would call go-to works that frame your reference. For instance, for scholars, there seems to be a trait of attaching oneself to one artist or work (or small body of works) as a sort of specialty, which becomes a significant part of one's life. So for my professor, for instance, he says that he has been reading and editing and debating Zhuangzi for well over 30 years, to the point where he not only has the text memorized, but also much of the significant scholarly body and footnotes that accompany it (including different punctuations and alternative manuscript discrepancies).

So for us on this board, in terms of personal connection with a text, which do you think is perhaps the significant work(s) of your world of reading.
Hemingway, Shakespeare, and the Divine Comedy are the wells I find myself going back to the most.

[WICKES]

If you mean works that that comfort and guide me and that I know I shall return to again and again throughout my life, well, I'd have to start with Shakespeare (sometimes I wonder why I bother to read anything else). King Lear, The Tempest, Hamlet and Henry IV, those are the four plays I'd take with me to a prison cell. As for poetry generally, Gray's 'Elegy in a country churchyard' is a poem I want to learn by heart; Blake's 'Marriage of Heaven and Hell', Keats' selected poems, Shelley's selected poems, T S Eliot's Waste Land and Four Quartets, Betjeman and Larkin also stand out. I'm not so sure about Larkin tbh. In my 20s he was my favourite poet, but I kind of feel (and a lot of people feel this way) that I've outgrown him. His poetry is beautiful, superb, but my god he is grim. Even when he's trying to be more upbeat and positive he depresses me.

As for fiction, I know I'll return to Evelyn Waugh, especially 'The Sword of Honour'. No-one is funnier and no-one writes more beautifully. Having said that, his cold, sadistic snobbery and general lack of humanity or empathy is unpleasant. Aldous Huxley's 'Chrome Yellow' for its elegant, shimmering beauty, wit and general brilliance. I also know I'll return again and again to Huxley's 'Island'. It is a poor novel, but full of wisdom. Bertrand Russell's popular essays also stand out.

[luhsun]

I am admittedly lowbrow, compared to JBI. For me it was romance of the 3 kingdoms for the past 30 years or so. As i get older, heroes turned to villains, and black may become white. Isn't it more exciting than zhuangzi's butterfly dreams?

[JBI]

I am admittedly lowbrow, compared to JBI. For me it was romance of the 3 kingdoms for the past 30 years or so. As i get older, heroes turned to villains, and black may become white. Isn't it more exciting than zhuangzi's butterfly dreams?

I would have thought it would be Lu Xun given your forum name. Still, to each their own. I don't like 3 kingdoms much, as it bores me. Others find it inspired. I have the same problem with almost all Chinese classical novels, except maybe Jin Ping Mei which I adore. Flowers in a Mirror is also interesting, as are the tales of many authors. But for the big 4 novels, I don't really care for them - reading the whole Journey to the west is taxing - it could have done with some trimming and removal of all that repetition.

[luhsun]

During my existential crisis as a medical student, i came across lu xun. It was before the time of pinyin spelling, hence lu hsun. Somehow, the preface of Nahan/call to arms moved me. My favourite was the short 'an unforgettable incident'. Over the years, lu xun, idealism and socialism lost their sheen (ah... the innocence of youth).

[luhsun]

Just a side comment- lu xun was noted to laud Golden Lotus- the erotic story of Ximen qing or pang jinlian as condemnation of the 'man-eating' confucian chinese social class. When younger, the alternative original shorter version in the water margin featuring Wu song used to fascinate me, but i suppose many young chinese boys would like the heroic righteous tiger-killer killing those two poisoners.

[JBI]

Just a side comment- lu xun was noted to laud Golden Lotus- the erotic story of Ximen qing or pang jinlian as condemnation of the 'man-eating' confucian chinese social class. When younger, the alternative original shorter version in the water margin featuring Wu song used to fascinate me, but i suppose many young chinese boys would like the heroic righteous tiger-killer killing those two poisoners.

I know you used the Wade-Giles to transcribe, I noticed it the first time I saw your posts. As for Lu Xun himself, living in China makes me appreciate him more and more, in that he seems the first author I can find who really stepped back from the country in his literature. He is the first author I think who actually put his country into a context of comparison - the other polemic authors seem more of the "we should fix this problem" or the "lets go back to the old way" where he was the "lets look for other examples and learn to improve" type. even so, studying this literature, I see Kong Yiji in the library every day, I see Ah Q on every street corner, and I cannot get out of this mindset. To sit beside a person and listen to them research the difference between two ways of writing the same character, and see how they hold to it as a sort of cultural superiority over the ignorant masses, that to me is what Lu Xun is about, to say to the self-righteous, you really are worthless, and what makes you think you are so special, Mr. Xiu Cai. In a sense that is one work I cling to, or at least certain parts of it. The mainland has made such an about face since the energy of the May 4th movement that it is more important than ever to read his works.

[luhsun]

What do you mean by stepping back from the country in his literature, JDI?
I see the impatient disillusioned medical student giving up medicine. He still diagnosed, but writing of social ills. That need to be a doctor for society must have been somewhat associated with chinese medical quacks being unable to cure his father, quacks making him search for 'chaste' crickets

[luhsun]

He diagnosed the social ills eloquently - ah q or kung i-chi. There was no suggestion or cure, except his catch-all rejection of confucianism. In a way, he is our medical equivalent of a pathologist- describing and dissecting. May 4th or the more recent Tian anmeng youthful exuberance moved me deeply when i was in my twenties. Now much older, i am aghast that i actually think deng xiao ping was right in sending in the tanks.
So, luhsun with the archaic wade-giles transcription remains, kept to remind me of those days luhsun first 'taught me shame, urging me to reform, and giving me courage and hope.'

[JBI]

What do you mean by stepping back from the country in his literature, JDI?
I see the impatient disillusioned medical student giving up medicine. He still diagnosed, but writing of social ills. That need to be a doctor for society must have been somewhat associated with chinese medical quacks being unable to cure his father, quacks making him search for 'chaste' crickets

He judges things from a non me you, but from a realist perspective. So here today, there is the prevalent attitude of, it is Chinese so it is good, or it is our way and our tradition - everything, regardless of good or bad, gets a big China stamped on it, and therefore becomes part of the 博大精深灿烂文化 propaganda model that dominates discourse here. That nobody went so far as to say, the Post-Song Ruist ideology that pervades our dialogue and our culture is inherently wrong, that is what I call stepping back. It's like Germans realizing Jew hating is a societal ill - it took thousands of years to come to that conclusion.

He is Chinese, true, but there is a sense that the medicine man is trying to "cure" or diagnose. He does not say Chinese medicine is a cure all, or is our tradition (the ideology of post-Kangxi ideological reforms) but rather says simply, that it just doesn't work. He does not say that the Xiucai is somehow ethically, culturally, and economically superior to the layman he looks down upon, he merely states it as it is - this man is a parasitic antiquated self-righteous cultural abomination.

Generally Neo-Confucian ideology seems one of the few ideologies that justifies itself by insisting education and money constitute an ethical and moral superiority, which is heavenly ordained. To suggest that poor people are worse off is one thing, but in the 21st century to wave a degree in someone's face as a justification of "moral superiority" is essentially a parasite.

So In that sense, he steps back from the indoctrination of his family (he originally was being prepared for imperial examinations, keep in mind, before switching to medicine to support his family) and asks the question: what truly is the value of this stuff, this cultural legacy. Is it what makes it better than people? are all these other technologically advanced people less civilized, and cultural barbarians that must kowtow to our cultural superiority, or is this merely are parasitic mindset.

In that sense, he is the author in line with that movement that would carry Chinese scholarship from last days of the Qing through the 1950s - the intellectual with a purpose - tradition as a question, not as a stamp.

Today we get the opposite - you get the uneducated generations who lack all knowledge of cultural tradition or any real sense of realistic understanding of the past romanticising over it, and perpetuating this mythology of the edenic classical China before western, and then Japanese bullies started harassing and invading them. This myth then translates to a cultural game of "our 5000 years of better than you" which is both insulting to anybody else but also perpetuated by the "in the days of old we were the best and we are going back to it, prepare to kowtow" ideology. Lu Xun is very much dead, and has, strangely just been removed from all government reading and tests. They've decided that a pleasant fairy tale in Shen Congwen's Biancheng is good for boosting their sort of self esteem and sense of "we are better than them" but that Lu Xun's critical, evaluative stance, and his intellectual questioning and reasoning are somehow detrimental to the intellectual development of the minds of China's tomorrow.

[luhsun]

I would beg to differ. Lu xun did not merely say that chinese traditional medicine didnt work. The ridicule and attack were savage.

[JBI]

I would beg to differ. Lu xun did not merely say that chinese traditional medicine didnt work. The ridicule and attack were savage.

"Yao" is not so much about medicine as it is about a sort of cultural illness. Keep in mind the links between the revolution and the blood soaked bun - there is a parallel of the revolutionary, or the reformer who is first murdered then digested by the sick country, that ultimately dies. The savior is avoided in favor of the dated, antiquated savage past tradition, and with it goes the hope of the future. It is bleak, of course, but in a sense it is not a scientific perspective on medicine, but rather a clear point - medicine of the traditional sort is of course loaded with nonsense in any culture, as can be seen from an objective perusal of the literature of the time period, however in "Yao" he doesn't exactly discuss medicine in as much as it is medicine, but rather the traditional idea - the medicine to me is more of a national metaphor, or cultural metaphor.

As savage as it is by the way, it is also quite necessary. I have a strong conviction that the revolution that is modern Medicine has benefited the general health of the entire world. IT is not fair to say it is "foreign" and then dismiss it, or to say it is going against the tradition and dismiss it (as antiquarians had under Kangxi earlier, when reversals to older "Han" or "Ancient" texts become fashionable) - that is the main point. Even today, in my Chinese textbook when I was In Beijing, I recall a great line "Chinese medicine is better than western medicine toward many illnesses." and then the story goes on to describe how the student tries everything to get healthy in Beijing but it doesn't work, until the miraculous Chinese medicine cures all ailments. On the test when I was met with a question for a fill in the blank 中药对一些慢性病特别好尤其。。。。。。。(Chinese medicine is great for many illnesses, especially...) I answered 尤其人血馒头。什么病都包好了 (especially blood soaked buns. They are a cure-all (quote from Lu Xun)。 When I asked the teacher why she didn't correct or mark the sentence on the page, and merely crossed it out she told me such answers were "forbidden".

So, on one hand this is a similar disease - the progressive medicine and the scientific approach to illness, which is not a Western invention, but a Modern invention with international input is reduced in a textbook to "your medicine" and not as good as the tradition "our medicine". The actual story has been discredited in favor a national sense of superiority, which ultimately manifests itself in the metaphoric cannibalized progressive mindset (tanks, invitations for tea, or full out execution included).

His works such as "Gu Xiang (hometown?)" "Yao" "Diary of a Madman" "Kong Yiji" and "the True Biography of A Q" seems to be incredibly important for us today, regardless of our sort of nationality. This sort of questioning of tradition as a country prepares to play catch up with modernity is one of the most interesting questions of literature and modernization. What does it mean to realize that you personally come from a third world country, in a practical sense, and realize that the traditions in place are part of the problem.

In that sense, I say Lu Xun makes a break in that he symbolizes a questioning of the idea that China is the middle Kingdom and the best place in the world, and that the dominant ideology is somehow the "Best" ideology in the world, and only civilized mindset.

[luhsun]

There was a short essay on his father's illness. The part where he was sent to call for the cheaper physician and when his father did not improve, the more expensive ones. The virgin chaste crickets, the herbs collected from certain mountains during certain phases of the moon. I thought it sounded autobiographical, and did not think that it was an analogy of social ills.

[JBI]

There was a short essay on his father's illness. The part where he was sent to call for the cheaper physician and when his father did not improve, the more expensive ones. The virgin chaste crickets, the herbs collected from certain mountains during certain phases of the moon. I thought it sounded autobiographical, and did not think that it was an analogy of social ills.
Oh, don't get me wrong, he was against that nonsense as well, that is for sure - I was commenting on the story everybody reads, not the essay. The essay is not, from my recollection, as violent as the story, but even so, you are right in his distaste of such nonsense, but ultimately, his father's death of TB is not so much tied to the national character. It's merely his idea of study, and disease linked together.

Take such a thing as a metaphor - the death of the individual is a result of lack of medicine - medicine in this sense that doesn't work is merely as a literal thing. The illness of the father is a common thing - how many people died of TB (Lu Xun would later too). The idea of the essay, and the general move from literature away from medicine (but first away from Classicism toward medicine) is tied in with this idea of the national quality. The whole preface of Outcry seems to be built on this link of the doctor saving the patient, and the writer trying to save the country. He calls it fruitless and useless eventually, like the medicine to save his father, but the link between medicine and nation is clear. After all, the blood on the buns is clearly not a literal prescription, but is used to make a point - the blood after all is revolutionary blood being murdered and digested.

[luhsun]

A point of curiosity, JDI. When were you on China? Your allusions of your time there are intriguing - maybe from that i can understand your point of view better. I am a malaysian, in a community that is trilingual, but never stayed or worked in china.

[JBI]

I'm in china right now in Shanghai, but I have lived in three cities and traveled everywhere. I've mOre or less interacted with people of every strata, from rich new money to poor migrant worker. My criticism of the country though is mostly targeted at the intellectualism here which I find a pathetic excuse for education. I'm also an intense anti-nationalist when it comes to the arts, so my opinion is there too. The best essay on Chinese literature I have found is C T Hsia's opening essay in On Literature.

As for the poor and the government here, and the general population, I only have good things to say. It's just this propagandistic attitude to things from 3000 years ago that makes one sick.

[JCamilo]

More I keep returning to Borges or Keats, more I would say, it is Voltaire. A world without Voltaire is the worst world possible.

[luhsun]

JDI, I thought the boast was 5000 years of history, stretching to the yellow emperor, or yao, whichever is more historically real.
Anyway, the brahmin of the indians are equally snobbish. So are the snotty aristocrats, or religious purists of any cultures. The darkness is in us humans. What you alluded to are just the upmanship antics of the insecure.

[JBI]

JDI, I thought the boast was 5000 years of history, stretching to the yellow emperor, or yao, whichever is more historically real.
Anyway, the brahmin of the indians are equally snobbish. So are the snotty aristocrats, or religious purists of any cultures. The darkness is in us humans. What you alluded to are just the upmanship antics of the insecure.

Yes, but it is the same ideology that causes wars and prolongs cultural misunderstandings. I guess in a world where everyone is generally the same, and in a modern world where most people live similar lives (Born, go to school, find a job, get married, have a couple kids, retire, die) people need ways to think they are better. Also in a cultural with awful income inequality, people need something to cling to (so that instead of saying look how rich those Americans are, they can say "our culture is better") in general, the vast majority of the population does not think like this, and tends to be rather normal like anywhere else. Their general understandings of foreigners and foreign culture ranges from the overall friendly to the uninterested, but I have yet to find particular dislike, and feel welcomed almost everywhere. People try to cheat you of course, but they do that to locals too, so it is not a problem.

As for the university though, this is one of the few countries that constantly needs to think itself important in order to get over being one amongst equals. It cannot accept that there is another way, or that there is some bad in everything. Such mentality is sickening from intellectuals - it's as if someone writing about Tudor England white washed over the entire violent political and religious setting of the entire thing, and only talked about how great Shakespeare was, and how it is proof of English superiority. You get that Circa. 1850 no doubt, but it is hard to listen to in 2013.

This idea of the link between the present and the past as part of a national ideology is disgusting in any country - even if it were a Greek telling a Turk that they are a bunch of losers for losing the Trojan war, or some other nonsense. This ideology is a plague that more or less has been dying out in the civilized world, but is now making a come back thanks to these academic disciplines, from countries whose scientific incompetence and economic disorder is thereby whitewashed by what they begin to regard as an artistic, or historic superiority to everybody else.

That's not the job of intellectuals as far as I am concerned. Research into historical things should try to remove the "our" or "my" from history, especially when dealing with events from 2000+ years ago. Secondly, art is to be enjoyed, not flaunted in people's faces. A person from 2000 years ago cannot be used to justify anybody's cultural superiority over another, especially when the artist's work in question goes particularly contrary to this train of thought.

That's why I guess Lu Xun sticks out much in my mind.

[luhsun]

Please excuse my curiosity. Your avatar and the chinese painting - what are they and how do they relate to your persona?

[JBI]

Please excuse my curiosity. Your avatar and the chinese painting - what are they and how do they relate to your persona?

One is a painting supposedly of Ariosto, the other is a replacement, as my former signature painting was deemed inappropriate for showing Venus's exposed body.This is a painting by Ma Yuan, that if I recall, is in the Palace collection in Taipei. As for how they relate to me - not exactly, the bottom one was trying something new, and I haven't been pleased with it, especially not as much as my former picture. I wanted Ma Yuan's painting of ripples on the water, but the detail remained completely ruined in such a small format. I was intending to change this one too, but just haven't got around to it.

[luhsun]

Ah.. i think that was reputed to be the first fishing rod/line depiction in chinese painting. But the compressed format ruined the imagery, of course.