Hip Hop - Eminem's Infinite

[Adolescent09]

I don't know where else to put this or how else to put it but I love the lyrics to Eminem's Infinite. The lyrics might be crude, explicit, demonic, demeaning, sardonic, and outright diabolical but I think there is a subtle genius imbued into this piece. I was wondering what you folks thought of it. (Try reading the entire thing out loud and as quickly as possible while enunciating each word clearly, and the whole meaning/gist of the piece should manifest its brilliance). The only thing superior to the lyrics themselves is Eminem's delivery, which can be heard on youtube from a simple key search "Eminem - Infinite"

Here are the lyrics:
[Verse 1:]
Ayo, my pen and paper cause a chain reaction
To get your brain relaxing, a zany acting maniac in action
A brainiac in fact son, you mainly lack attraction
You look insanely whack when just a fraction of my tracks run
My rhyming skills got you climbing hills
I travel through your mind into your spine like siren drills
I'm sliming grills of roaches, with sprayed on disinfectants
Twist the necks of rappers 'til their spinal column disconnects
We disinfect then check the monologue, turn your system up
Twist them up, and indulge in the marijuana smog
This is the season for noise pollution contamination
Examination of more cartoons than animation
My lamination of narration
Hit's a snare and bass of track ****ed up rapper interrogation
When I declare invasion, there ain't no time to be stare and gazing
I turn the stage into a barren wasteland...
I'm Infinite

[Chorus:]
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murderin' instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite

[Verse 2:]
Bust it, I let the beat commence so I can beat the sense of your elite defense
I got some meat to mince, a crew to stomp and two feet to rinse
I greet the gents and ladies, I spoil loyal fans
I foil plans and leave fluids leaking like oil pans
My coil hands around this microphone are lethal
One thought in my cerebral is deeper then a Jeep full of people
MC's are feeble, I came to cause some pandemonium
Battle a band of phony MC's and stand the lonely one
Imitator, Intimidator, Stimulator, Simulator of data, Eliminator
There's never been a greater since the burial of Jesus
**** around and catch all of the venereal diseases
My thesis will smash a stereo to pieces
My accapella releases classic masterpieces through telekinesis
And eases you mentally, gently, sentimentally, instrumentally
With entity, dementedly meant to be Infinite

[Chorus:]
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murderin' instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite

[Verse 3:]
Man I got evidence I'm never dense and I been clever ever since
My residence was hesitant to do some **** that represents the M-O
So I'm assuming all responsibility
Cause there's a monster will in me that always wants to kill MC's
Mic messaler, slamming like a wrestler
Here to make a mess of a lyric smuggling embezzler
No one is specialer, My skill is intergalactical
I get cynical act a fool then I send a crew back to school
I never packed a tool or acted cool, it wasn't practical
I'd rather let a tactical, tact full track tickle your fancy
In fact I can't see, or can't imagine
A man who ain't a lover of beats or a fan of scratching
This is for my family, the kid who had a cameo on my last jam
Plus the man who never had a plan B
Be all you can be, cause once you make an instant hit
I'm tensed a bit and tempted when I see the sins my friends commit...
I'm Infinite

[Chorus:]
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murderin' instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murderin' instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite

[Darcy88]

I like the chorus. Eminem is actually a better lyricist than a lot of rappers out there now, as crude as he is. The lyrics and the passion of the song Not Afraid I find very powerful and inspiring, though for some reason that seems lame to say. The line "all those who look down on me I'm tearing down their balcony"... is just awesome. Its my ultimate song for running to.

The lyrics from his first album are wrong in every conceivable way, but they are often sort of clever and very hilarious.

The man, like all rappers, has a BIG ego and I find it funny. Look at these lines from the song you posted:



There's never been a greater since the burial of Jesus.

One thought in my cerebral is deeper then a Jeep full of people.

And this one is funny too, though not a little disturbing:


I got some meat to mince, a crew to stomp and two feet to rinse

The dude doesn't need testosterone replacement therapy. If anything he needs estrogen replacement therapy. He has more testosterone in him than runs in the veins of ten bulls.

[JuniperWoolf]

The lyrics from his first album are wrong in every conceivable way, but they are often sort of clever and very hilarious.

I like the one where he sort of does a musical sketch of him kidnapping his wife from her house (baby present), driving out to an undisclosed location and slitting her throat.

[Darcy88]

I like the one where he sort of does a musical sketch of him kidnapping his wife from her house (baby present), driving out to an undisclosed location and slitting her throat.

Yeah, that's from his second album. I prefer the first, the one with the song where he rapes and murders a random woman he met at a laundromat.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I can't stand rap, and the only time I've enjoyed Eminem in the least is when hearing his humorous songs. When he gets serious he's quite horrible (as these lyrics show) . . . but he's a rapper, so it's not uncommon at all.

I'm sure these lyrics sound better when performed by Eninem, but as poetry they're pretty horrible.

[Darcy88]

The thing about Eminem is he almost hit on a similar vein as was hit on by Kurt Cobain. That first album was a juvenile album and it captured the meaninglessness and apathy and cynicism that I and many my age felt as adolescents around the time it came out. The anger and negativity of rap can be very powerful, but until Eminem it was practically the sole province of ghetto-bound gang-banging blacks, and it was sort of absurd for suburban and small town white kids like me to listen to it, though I did. A part of me actually hates Eminem with a passion because of how homophobic and misogynistic he was and probably still is, but some of his music is very powerful, and at the time, growing up in a white trash setting, I could really relate to his musical mood swings and his attitude of just not giving a **** about anything.

[JBI]

That is so tacky. Rhyme doesn't make it good, he is basically repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

[mortalterror]

That is so tacky. Rhyme doesn't make it good, he is basically repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

In his defense, this is from late 1995. He's gotten a lot better in the last 17 years. Also, this isn't one of his better songs. He really came into his own four years later with the Slim Shady LP and songs like "My Name Is", "Brain Damage", or "Just Don't Give a ****." The next year he comes out with his first fully mature album The Marshall Mathers LP featuring the hits "Stan", "The Way I Am", and "The Real Slim Shady."

After that, his next three albums are hit or miss and he spends a decade in the grip of drugs, trying to get clean. Notable songs from this time include "Sing For the Moment", "Like Toy Soldiers", and "Beautiful". The first is introspective, autobiographical, and a positive statement of artistic purpose. The second is an insightful and emotional appeal for peace in the rap community after he lost a friend to violence. The third is another positive lift you up type song for anybody who's been put down. He's gotten a lot more thoughtful since he's become a father. Which reminds me, his 2005 song "When I'm Gone" to his daughter is also full of love and soul.

But his 2010 album is what's really going to cement his reputation in music history as the second Elvis. Almost every song in there is a hit. "Almost Famous", "Cinderella Man", "Not Afraid", "Love the Way You Lie", "No Love", "Talkin' 2 Myself", "Space Bound", and "Going Through Changes" are all happening songs.

The misogyny, homophobia, violence, and vulgarity tend to put some people off but weren't most of the people here just making the case for not being offended when Dante, Shakespeare, or the Bible did all of those things? Personally, I think that is all just baggage that comes with the art of hip hop and he's hardly worse than Kanye West or Jay-Z in that respect.

Mutatis, you are far too young to give up on hip hop, the dominant musical style of your age. It's what Rock and Roll was thirty years ago, and Blues and Jazz were before that. You just need to search around until you find a sound you feel comfortable with and then embrace that, use it as a gateway to the rest of the culture. Try some of these:

Sugarhill Gang- Rapper's Delight
Young MC- Bust a Move
Grandmaster Flash- The Message
KRS1- You Must Learn
Common- I Used to Love HER
Tupac- Changes
Biggie Smalls- Big Poppa
Jay Z- 99 Problems, Big Pimpin, Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Run This Town
Cypress Hill- Insane in the Membrane
Bone Thugs in Harmony- Crossroads
Nelly- Ride Wit Me
Wildchild- Renegade Master
Vanilla Ice- Ice Ice Baby
Kanye West- Jesus Walks, Gold Digger, Heartless,
MC Hammer- U Can't Touch This
Fatboy Slim- Funk Soul Brother
Eminem- Love the Way You Lie
Akon- Sorry, Blame it On Me
B.O.B.- Airplanes
NWA- Bow Down
Snoop Dogg- Gin and Juice
Lupe Fiasco- Daydreamin'
Dr. Dre- Nothin' but a G Thang
Wyclef Jean- Sweetest Girl
MIA- Paper Planes
Public Enemy- Harder than You Think, Fight the Power
Run DMC- Rock Box
Fort Minor- Remember the Name
LL Cool J- Mama Said Knock You Out
MC Chris- Fett's Vette
Sir Mix a Lot- Baby Got Back
Gnarls Barkley- Crazy
The Black Eyed Peas- Let's Get it Started
The Lonely Island- I'm on a Boat
Ludacris- Move *****
Afroman- Because I Got High
Beastie Boys- Fight For Your Right (To Party)
Pras- Ghetto Supastar
Coolio- Gangster's Paradise
Jadakiss- Why

[Alexander III]

Mutatis, you are far too young to give up on hip hop, the dominant musical style of your age. It's what Rock and Roll was thirty years ago, and Blues and Jazz were before that. You just need to search around until you find a sound you feel comfortable with and then embrace that, use it as a gateway to the rest of the culture.



Ok this made me laugh a bit, but I suppose you are in your fourties, so it is normal. Only in america, and amongst certian minorities of a certain socio-economic bacround is hip-hop the dominant for of music nowadays. 10 years ago yes, but now no longer. In europe, especialy the continent (england is a bit more similar to america in this) those of my age listen predominantly to house, and techno music.

Here are some examples of some great songs, to help you form an idea of the main music which we listen to.


Joris Delacroix - Symbiose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv4_AJ2Pk24

Paul Kalkbrenner - Plätscher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG4DJdcFAXU&feature=fvst

Paul Kalkbrener - Sky and Sand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMUNv3E81Ds&feature=fvst

Paul Kalkbrener - Aaron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p450mjB3mxc

Anon - The Reckoning Song (this is one of the most beautifull songs I ever heard, if you do ignore all these songs as I suspect most of you will, please do listen to this one at least)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdk6VSUsa1I

Gui Boratto - Beautiful Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFoJM2tTFlY

Gui Boratto - Take My Breath Away
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdkxPyLDQy4&feature=related

Nicolas Jaar - I Got A Woman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVKc8KGPKFM

[mortalterror]

Ok this made me laugh a bit, but I suppose you are in your fourties, so it is normal. Only in america, and amongst certian minorities of a certain socio-economic bacround is hip-hop the dominant for of music nowadays. 10 years ago yes, but now no longer. In europe, especialy the continent (england is a bit more similar to america in this) those of my age listen predominantly to house, and techno music.

Here are some examples of some great songs, to help you form an idea of the main music which we listen to.

At the risk of being behind the times, Techno is for Eurotrash and E-tards. It's just disco that refused to die, and disco always sucked. However, there are a few, a very few good techno/electronica songs.

Halcyon- Orbital
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-hSgL1R74
Born Slippy- Underworld
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlLWFa1b1Bc
Fire Starter- The Prodigy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPw
Natural Blues- Moby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivtKcM1DGeY
Block Rockin Beats- The Chemical Brothers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaU5qkQJ1e4
Mind Killer- Adam Freeland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoUDGJ4g2A
Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger- Daft Punk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjR4_CbPpQ&ob=av2e
Atomic- Sleeper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ulacm465lU

However, I'd rather listen to modern country
Portland Oregon- Loretta Lynn and Jack White
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuC_l3ymXhM
Outlaw Country
Straight To Hell- Hank Williams III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIlCrhj7mpM
Hard Rock
Joker and the Thief in the Night- Wolfmother
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je84VupqD58
Heavy Metal
Judas Rising- Judas Priest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jazmdoxlpY
Hip Hop
Jesus Walks- Kanye West
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8AyHupByuU
Alternative
How to Disappear Completely- Radiohead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAF8D0ugyVk
Or just about anything else.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

The thing about Eminem is he almost hit on a similar vein as was hit on by Kurt Cobain.
Except one was a genius and the other is a moron.


The anger and negativity of rap can be very powerful.
If I want to experience anger and negativity in music, I'll always go to heavy metal. It conveys the emotions of anger and negativity much better, and the genre actually contains a plethora of excellent musicians who know how to write music.



Mutatis, you are far too young to give up on hip hop, the dominant musical style of your age. It's what Rock and Roll was thirty years ago, and Blues and Jazz were before that. You just need to search around until you find a sound you feel comfortable with and then embrace that, use it as a gateway to the rest of the culture.
Right now the principle music of my generation is indie rock and the horrible sub-genre called "dubstep" (I honestly don't know what I hate more, rap or techno). I have rap a chance when younger, but that phase of my life had passed by the time I was 9--I had outgrown it by then.

I hope you enjoyed making that list, because I won't examine it. I will admit that I do enjoy Cypress Hill and and "Mom Said Knock You Out." I guess the closes thing to rap I really like is Rage Against the Machine.

Edit: I see since I posted mortalterror posted a list of country-rock songs. All my favorite genres are being covered today?

[mortalterror]

Right now the principle music of my generation is indie rock and the horrible sub-genre called "dubstep" (I honestly don't know what I hate more, rap or techno). I gave rap a chance when younger, but that phase of my life had passed by the time I was 9--I had outgrown it by then.

I hope you enjoyed making that list, because I won't examine it. I will admit that I do enjoy Cypress Hill and and "Mom Said Knock You Out." I guess the closes thing to rap I really like is Rage Against the Machine.

Edit: I see since I posted mortalterror posted a list of country-rock songs. All my favorite genres are being covered today?

I made that list a year ago, when I was trying to prove to myself that rap didn't suck. I could never get into it, but then I made a list and discovered that I already liked twenty or thirty songs besides Eminem whom I've always rather enjoyed. It was sort of an intellectual exercise to examine my own musical tastes like this much longer one on my blog http://www.online-literature.com/forums/blog.php?b=11499 . My feeling is that most musical genres are so varied and broad that there's usually something you will like in all of them. Someday I'd like to get into Latin American music and find out what all of South America is raving about.

What is most important is that we stay intellectually curious and open to new experiences.

[Alexander III]

At the risk of being behind the times, Techno is for Eurotrash and E-tards. It's just disco that refused to die, and disco always sucked. However, there are a few, a very few good techno/electronica songs.
.

You didnt listen to any of the songs, and spoke with your limited pre-conceaved notion of what you thought I was talking about. Had you listened to but one of them you could have saved yourself from looking like an idiot.

[mortalterror]

You didnt listen to any of the songs, and spoke with your limited pre-conceaved notion of what you thought I was talking about. Had you listened to but one of them you could have saved yourself from looking like an idiot.

I listened to six of them.

[KCurtis]

I like Eminem. I don't like the really vulgar stuff, but one can get a full set of his songs without extreme vulgarity- and they are clever and good. I love "The Way I Am", "Lose Yourself", "Little Toy Soldiers", and on his newest CD,"You're Not Alone". His delivery is excellent. Yes, I am 54 but it shouldn't matter, hip-hop is not my favorite musical genre, but I like it when it's good.
Public Enemy is my favorite, I think Chuck D is fantastic. I listen to them when I'm angry.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

What is most important is that we stay intellectually curious and open to new experiences.
Well, I would think intellectual curiosity would depend on the condition that there's some sort of intellectual merit in the material. I'm not convinced there's enough in rap to warrant my time. I think I'd rather further explore classical.

I listened to six of them.
Haha, burn.

[mortalterror]

Well, I would think intellectual curiosity would depend on the condition that there's some sort of intellectual merit in the material. I'm not convinced there's enough in rap to warrant my time. I think I'd rather further explore classical.

I can respect that, wanting to get the most bang for your buck. In that case, I recommend:

1607 L'Orfeo- Monteverdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll_u870PG8
1642 The Coronation of Poppea- Monteverdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb9nCKAQVyA
1638 Miserere- Allegri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh31j6L95Ok
1694 Canon in D- Pachelbel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlpro...eature=related
1707 Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1z12_Ps-gk
1717 Prelude to Cello Suite 1- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E
1718 Air on the G String- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS-HWIFyLsE
1719 Double Violin Concerto- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vesrqFeq9rU
1723 The Four Seasons- Vivaldi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNBeW_2kGEA
1723 Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwWL8Y-qsJg
1725 Badinerie- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVxwuirUX-M
1748 Zais Ouverture- Rameau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NybTtlHiFbk
1754 Halleluah Chorus- Handel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU
1771 Minuet- Boccherini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSE15tLBdso
1773 Symphony 25- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lC1lRz5Z_s
1780 Night Music of the Streets of Madrid- Boccherini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5pnr53S_qc
1783 Rondo Alla Turca- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCSevzJQ2-Y
1784 The Marriage of Figaro- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcuXkicCTro
1785 The Piano Concerto No. 20 in D minor, K. 466- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtTqpqGIIYU
1785 Piano Concerto No 21- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-eLzao63I
1787 Don Giovanni- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1_vm0FMAU
1787 A Little Night Music- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb_jQBgzU-I
1788 Symphony 40- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hJf4ZffkoI
1788 Jupiter Symphony- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehqc17iiBBU
1791 The Magic Flute- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ODfuMMyss
1791 Requiem- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1-TrAvp_xs
1798 Romance for Violin and Orchestra 2- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0YCWZnpoO0
1801 Moonlight Sonata- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQVeaIHWWck
1804 Symphony 3- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XL2ha18i5w
1808 Symphony 5- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI
1808 Symphony 6- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbFxVVLM2zc
1808 Clarinet Concerto 1- Spohr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVcyRizubIc
1810 Fur Elise- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQTTFUtMSvQ
1816 The Barber of Seville- Rossini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloXRhesab0
1817 The Thieving Magpie- Rossini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igLBmYY7rpo
1824 Symphony 9- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAOTCtW9v0M
1825 Ave Maria- Schubert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bosouX_d8Y
1827 Piano Trio No 2- Schubert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12xe2osfq1w
1829 William Tell Overture- Rossini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7O91GDWGPU
1834 Fantasie Impromptu- Chopin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvm2ZsRv3C8
1841 Spring Song- Mendelssohn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mz5Rtx-Eu0
1843 Wedding March- Mendelssohn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDr8Q7lDW8o
1843 Tannhauser Overture- Wagner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgpOctKSwp4
1843 The Flying Dutchman- Wagner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqezCR_XzaI
1844 Ach So Fromm- Flotow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPbgSUHBdqs
1845 Carmen- Bizet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axvhEUyVfX0
1847 Hungarian Rhapsody 2- Liszt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goeOUTRy2es
1848 La Traviata- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcKdnkGBSgA
1851 Rigoletto- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYRZOEzoOgQ
1853 Anvil Chorus- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEMMVHAINFM
1856 Ride of the Valkyries- Wagner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU
1864 Barcarolle- Offenbach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7czptgEvvU
1866 The Bartered Bride Overture- Smetana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTUHPhYF2J8
1866 The Blue Danube- Strauss II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTqlLKBKFhg
1869 Hungarian Dance 5- Brahms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X9LvC9WkkQ
1871 Grand March- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUv-G8TzkMc
1872 Danse Macabre- Saint-Saens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyknBTm_YyM
1874 Dies Irae- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDbMzp86tOc
1874 Pictures at an Exhibition- Mussorgsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqoamga8744
1876 Swan Lake-Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S76CGGPqI3s
1876 March Slave- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5poSw7tFLB4
1876 Peer Gynt- Grieg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrIYT-MrVaI
1879 Eugene Onegin: Polonais- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19lJZGzOeEg
1880 Romeo and Juliet- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmwMkMJlcfA
1880 1812 Overture- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNatwyAJ6dI
1883 Flower Duet- Delibes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qx2lMaMsl8
1886 Night on Bald Mountain- Mussorgsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0h6H_vcSKc
1886 Carnival of the Animals- Saint-Saens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsD0FDLOKGA
1887 Pavane- Faure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpgyTl8yqbw
1887 Polovtsian Dances- Borodin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C8frqCKKg
1890 The Sleeping Beauty- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sU4mgkGtrs
1890 Intermezzo- Mascagni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CVyf13B1vE
1890 Clare de Lune- Debussy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvUepMa31o
1892 Vesti La Giubba- Leoncavalo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFuy1MTrlcc&feature=fvst
1892 The Nutcracker- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg1dMpu4v7M
1893 Symphony 9- Dvorak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yctfXIqugXc
1894 Meditation- Massenet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGd4Rs-O3ws
1896 Sunrise- Strauss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmuNxYLxTs
1899 Flight of the Bumblebee- Rimsky-Korsakov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXHd-ZLN_ew
1899 Enigma Variations- Elgar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUgoBb8m1eE
1901 Pomp and Circumstance- Elgar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moL4MkJ-aLk
1901 Prelude in G minor- Rachmaninoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QB7ugJnHgs
1904 Un Bel Di- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLaY2VcIEqo
1916 The Planets- Holst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B49N46I39Y
1917 Dream of Doretta- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3PtVRWNYus
1918 O Mio Babbino Caro- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxy4qrnKwVo
1920 The Lark Ascending- Vaughan Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKz6XJlI_jk
1924 Rhapsody in Blue- Gershwin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U40xBSz6Dc
1926 Nessun Dorma- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOfC9LfR3PI
1928 Bolero- Ravel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4J5j74VPw
1932 Suite For Jazz Orchestra 2- Shostakovich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYhZVqODYsI
1934 Rhapsody on a Theme By Paganini- Rachmaninoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Z-HCq5EeU
1934 Troika- Prokofiev
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hINfOSlMANc
1935 Dance of the Knights- Prokofiev
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmq1cpcglQ
1936 Carmina Burana- Orff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNWpZ-Y_KvU
1936 Adagio For Strings- Barber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRMz8fKkG2g
1939 Concerto De Aranjuez- Rodrigo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9DOtuPLqNI
1940 Violin Concerto- Khachaturian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZexcMRKVMkk
1940 Comedians Gallop- Kabalevsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw0oQ4sD4us
1942 Rodeo- Copland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ajQYANLiug
1942 Fanfare for the Common Man- Copland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEro8pG0hiE
1942 Sabre Dance- Khachaturian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqg3l3r_DRI
1947 Petrushka- Stravinsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFvjao_RHVU
1952 Blue Tango- Anderson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQRIL4q7IPw
1956 Candide Overture- Bernstein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=422-yb8TXj8
1966 The Ecstasy of Gold- Morricone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0wPBYDQ6Y
1975 Einstein on the Beach- Glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmX_GgozpQs
1976 Symphony of Sorrowful Songs- Gorecki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miLV0o4AhE4

[Darcy88]

Well, I would think intellectual curiosity would depend on the condition that there's some sort of intellectual merit in the material. I'm not convinced there's enough in rap to warrant my time. I think I'd rather further explore classical.

Haha, burn.

What intellectual merit is there in heavy metal? How is there less in rap than in heavy metal? I think there is enough in both, in addition to the simple power of both, to warrant listening to them. Listen to Eminem's song Not Afraid, to 2pac's California Love or Changes or How Long Will They Mourn Me. Entirely writing off rap is wrong. There is bad rap just as there is bad rock, bad metal, bad everything. Then there is great rap.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I can respect that, wanting to get the most bang for your buck. In that case, I recommend:

1607 L'Orfeo- Monteverdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9J9v...eature=related
1642 The Coronation of Poppea- Monteverdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb9nCKAQVyA
1638 Miserere- Allegri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71jgMx0Mxc
1694 Canon in D- Pachelbel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZHw9uyj81g
1707 Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1z12_Ps-gk
1717 Prelude to Cello Suite 1- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E
1718 Air on the G String- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOVwokQnV4M
1719 Double Violin Concerto- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vesrqFeq9rU
1723 The Four Seasons- Vivaldi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSw7CcAXPWk
1723 Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwWL8Y-qsJg
1725 Badinerie- Bach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVxwuirUX-M
1748 Zais Ouverture- Rameau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQHRu5wG6RI
1754 Halleluah Chorus- Handel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHksDFHTQI
1771 Minuet- Boccherini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSE15tLBdso
1773 Symphony 25- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lC1lRz5Z_s
1780 Night Music of the Streets of Madrid- Boccherini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5pnr53S_qc
1783 Rondo Alla Turca- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCSevzJQ2-Y
1784 The Marriage of Figaro- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcuXkicCTro
1785 The Piano Concerto No. 20 in D minor, K. 466- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtTqpqGIIYU
1785 Piano Concerto No 21- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-eLzao63I
1787 Don Giovanni- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1_vm0FMAU
1787 A Little Night Music- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb_jQBgzU-I
1788 Symphony 40- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZD9nt_wsY0
1788 Jupiter Symphony- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehqc17iiBBU
1791 The Magic Flute- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ODfuMMyss
1791 Requiem- Mozart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkT07TP-mo
1798 Romance for Violin and Orchestra 2- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64KW04601ts
1801 Moonlight Sonata- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQVeaIHWWck
1804 Symphony 3- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFltqVS8d9I
1808 Symphony 5- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhcR1ZS2hVo
1808 Symphony 6- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbFxVVLM2zc
1808 Clarinet Concerto 1- Spohr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVcyRizubIc
1810 Fur Elise- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQTTFUtMSvQ
1816 The Barber of Seville- Rossini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloXRhesab0
1817 The Thieving Magpie- Rossini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSrLDHDQ2eo
1824 Symphony 9- Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAOTCtW9v0M
1825 Ave Maria- Schubert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bosouX_d8Y
1827 Piano Trio No 2- Schubert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQy-cgUYA6g
1829 William Tell Overture- Rossini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkymTHSbWe0
1834 Fantasie Impromptu- Chopin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvm2ZsRv3C8
1841 Spring Song- Mendelssohn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mz5Rtx-Eu0
1843 Wedding March- Mendelssohn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDr8Q7lDW8o
1843 Tannhauser Overture- Wagner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDwiYOCnuao
1843 The Flying Dutchman- Wagner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJtrXqRu9K8
1844 Ach So Fromm- Flotow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is1gMLBW_bY
1845 Carmen- Bizet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axvhEUyVfX0
1847 Hungarian Rhapsody 2- Liszt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goeOUTRy2es
1848 La Traviata- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcKdnkGBSgA
1851 Rigoletto- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYRZOEzoOgQ
1853 Anvil Chorus- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXFZckzjcKw
1856 Ride of the Valkyries- Wagner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU
1864 Barcarolle- Offenbach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7czptgEvvU
1866 The Bartered Bride Overture- Smetana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVTutjfb22s
1866 The Blue Danube- Strauss II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTqlLKBKFhg
1869 Hungarian Dance 5- Brahms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X9LvC9WkkQ
1871 Grand March- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUv-G8TzkMc
1872 Danse Macabre- Saint-Saens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyknBTm_YyM
1874 Dies Irae- Verdi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDbMzp86tOc
1874 Pictures at an Exhibition- Mussorgsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_98452AxFI
1876 Swan Lake-Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S76CGGPqI3s
1876 March Slave- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5poSw7tFLB4
1876 Peer Gynt- Grieg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEXAruiTSjk
1879 Eugene Onegin: Polonais- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19lJZGzOeEg
1880 Romeo and Juliet- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmwMkMJlcfA
1880 1812 Overture- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNatwyAJ6dI
1883 Flower Duet- Delibes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qx2lMaMsl8
1886 Night on Bald Mountain- Mussorgsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0h6H_vcSKc
1886 Carnival of the Animals- Saint-Saens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsD0FDLOKGA
1887 Pavane- Faure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpgyTl8yqbw
1887 Polovtsian Dances- Borodin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C8frqCKKg
1890 The Sleeping Beauty- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sU4mgkGtrs
1890 Intermezzo- Mascagni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CVyf13B1vE
1890 Clare de Lune- Debussy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvUepMa31o
1892 Vesti La Giubba- Leoncavalo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8WOKsdHuc4
1892 The Nutcracker- Tchaikovsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg1dMpu4v7M
1893 Symphony 9- Dvorak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yctfXIqugXc
1894 Meditation- Massenet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObxzdawhM-8
1896 Sunrise- Strauss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmuNxYLxTs
1899 Flight of the Bumblebee- Rimsky-Korsakov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXHd-ZLN_ew
1899 Enigma Variations- Elgar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUgoBb8m1eE
1901 Pomp and Circumstance- Elgar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moL4MkJ-aLk
1901 Prelude in G minor- Rachmaninoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QB7ugJnHgs
1904 Un Bel Di- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpW8Jvl9low
1916 The Planets- Holst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B49N46I39Y
1917 Dream of Doretta- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3PtVRWNYus
1918 O Mio Babbino Caro- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxy4qrnKwVo
1920 The Lark Ascending- Vaughan Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKz6XJlI_jk
1924 Rhapsody in Blue- Gershwin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK_ShoOL2ao
1926 Nessun Dorma- Puccini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOfC9LfR3PI
1928 Bolero- Ravel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4J5j74VPw
1932 Suite For Jazz Orchestra 2- Shostakovich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYhZVqODYsI
1934 Rhapsody on a Theme By Paganini- Rachmaninoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Z-HCq5EeU
1934 Troika- Prokofiev
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hINfOSlMANc
1935 Dance of the Knights- Prokofiev
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmq1cpcglQ
1936 Carmina Burana- Orff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNWpZ-Y_KvU
1936 Adagio For Strings- Barber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRMz8fKkG2g
1939 Concerto De Aranjuez- Rodrigo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9DOtuPLqNI
1940 Violin Concerto- Khachaturian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZexcMRKVMkk
1940 Comedians Gallop- Kabalevsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw0oQ4sD4us
1942 Rodeo- Copland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqah1rucyRg
1942 Fanfare for the Common Man- Copland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzf0rvQa4Mc
1942 Sabre Dance- Khachaturian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqg3l3r_DRI
1947 Petrushka- Stravinsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkg_l...eature=related
1952 Blue Tango- Anderson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQRIL4q7IPw
1956 Candide Overture- Bernstein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=422-yb8TXj8
1966 The Ecstasy of Gold- Morricone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0wPBYDQ6Y
1975 Einstein on the Beach- Glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmX_GgozpQs
1976 Symphony of Sorrowful Songs- Gorecki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miLV0o4AhE4
Now there's a list I can utilize.


What intellectual merit is there in heavy metal? How is there less in rap than in heavy metal? I think there is enough in both, in addition to the simple power of both, to warrant listening to them. Listen to Eminem's song Not Afraid, to 2pac's California Love or Changes or How Long Will They Mourn Me. Entirely writing off rap is wrong. There is bad rap just as there is bad rock, bad metal, bad everything. Then there is great rap.
Heavy metal almost always has competent, sometimes even virtuosic level musicians (often classically trained--metal musicians coming from Berkely or Juliard is not uncommon), complex and thoughtful writing, and bands that are in it. Ecause they love the music, not the fame (because there usually isn't any). Rap has none of those virtues, at least from what I've seen, and growing up where I have and watching MTV when younger, I'm not completely ignorant of the genre. It might be wrong to entirely write rap off as a genre, but I don't care because it doesn't appeal to me. I don't like how it sounds, and that's the crux of it.

And, friendly tip Darcy, but songs go in quotes and only album titles are italicized, unless you were using the italics for emphasis.

[JuniperWoolf]

Whenever people make broad statements like "I don't like rap," I always refer them to The Beastie Boys. If you don't like The Beastie Boys, then you're just a bad person.

[mortalterror]

Hmmm, looks like some of my links are out of date. Okay, I swapped out the old not working ones for fresh working ones. They all should work now.

[Alexander III]

I listened to six of them.

I find that strange considering your reply was "Techno is for Eurotrash and E-tards. It's just disco that refused to die, and disco always sucked."

which is close minded, steryotyped (an american steryotype because they dont seem to understand the difference in european culture between those who listen to heavy techno and dubstep and those who listen to house music) But I guese it would be too much to expect an american to not be narrow minded when it comes to the outside world.

And the you wrote this "However, there are a few, a very few good techno/electronica songs." and posted several songs which are not in the same genre in the least as the ones I posted, showing that either you did not listen to any of the songs, or you have a very blunt musical ear.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Whenever people make broad statements like "I don't like rap," I always refer them to The Beastie Boys. If you don't like The Beastie Boys, then you're just a bad person.
I'm a bad person. I liked them when I was in grade school

I find that strange considering your reply was "Techno is for Eurotrash and E-tards. It's just disco that refused to die, and disco always sucked."

which is close minded, steryotyped (an american steryotype because they dont seem to understand the difference in european culture between those who listen to heavy techno and dubstep and those who listen to house music) But I guese it would be too much to expect an american to not be narrow minded when it comes to the outside world.

And the you wrote this "However, there are a few, a very few good techno/electronica songs." and posted several songs which are not in the same genre in the least as the ones I posted, showing that either you did not listen to any of the songs, or you have a very blunt musical ear.

Yeah, because you're never close-minded about anything.

The songs he posted are probably different because they're better than the crap you posted.

I'm proud to label myself as having a narrow taste in music, because everyone does. I love it when I hear someone who says, "I like a little of everything," only to find that person doesn't listen to metal, classical, jazz, or any number of different categories. I like that I have a refined taste.

[mortalterror]

I find that strange considering your reply was "Techno is for Eurotrash and E-tards. It's just disco that refused to die, and disco always sucked."

which is close minded, steryotyped (an american steryotype because they dont seem to understand the difference in european culture between those who listen to heavy techno and dubstep and those who listen to house music) But I guese it would be too much to expect an american to not be narrow minded when it comes to the outside world.

And the you wrote this "However, there are a few, a very few good techno/electronica songs." and posted several songs which are not in the same genre in the least as the ones I posted, showing that either you did not listen to any of the songs, or you have a very blunt musical ear.

There is something to what you are saying. I won't deny it. I can tell the difference between rockabilly, soft rock, hard rock, alternative, progressive rock, heavy metal, power metal, death metal, and punk but I can't tell the difference between various types of electronic music. Truth be told, I have difficulty differentiating East Coast and West Coast rap. When I heard the repetitive beats and electronic tones in your music I labeled it all techno. Was I wrong? I don't know what the difference is between ambient, house, and trance. However, I'd include all of the subgenres of rock as simply rock and all of the subgenres you presented as techno or electronic music. They all grew out of the Disco movement the same as Rock grew out of Rhythm and Blues; so where did I error?

Besides I don't know that all of western youth culture is listening to this music of yours. Over here for instance the Black Keys are enjoying some recent success do to their single Tighten Up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaPBCBjSVc&ob=av2e and Adele just won a bunch of Grammies for her song Rolling in the Deep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw&ob=av2e then the Foo Fighters and Kanye West don't seem to be making out too bad either. Of course, I'm perpetually hearing this or that about Lady Gaga and Justin Beiber the enfants terribles of the moment.

Of course, back on your continent, the Arctic Monkeys seem to be going strong in England. The Darkness had a nice hit over here with I Believe in a Thing Called Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU and the Australian band Wolfmother got our attention with Joker and the Thief in the Night http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je84VupqD58 .Rammstein, one of the world's greatest rock bands remains popular in Germany along with Helloween, Blind Guardian, and Gamma Ray. Power and symphonic metal is alive and well in Scandinavia thanks to Sonata Arctica, Nightwish, and Stratovarius . I'm not sure what they listen to at the moment in Italy, France, Poland, Spain, or Russia but it's likely a mix of a number of things including your beloved techno. However, I still don't think it's fair to characterize American's as more narrow minded than Europeans. How much do you know about Indian sitar music, Chinese opera, or Japanese Enka? I've listened to some bagpipes and some yodeling from time to time, but nobody has the time to listen to all of the world's music anymore than they do to read all of the world's books.

Besides, it's easier to enjoy music that's not in your native language if it's in some genre you already appreciate and it's really good.
Jacques Brel- Amsterdam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2kkr0e_dTQ
Edith Piaf- La Vie En Rose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSUdn08D8aY&feature=fvst
Tino Rossi- Besame Mucho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZSADBhXBm4
Comedian Harmonists- Veronika
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRP1XAOM-nQ

[Darcy88]

Now there's a list I can utilize.


Heavy metal almost always has competent, sometimes even virtuosic level musicians (often classically trained--metal musicians coming from Berkely or Juliard is not uncommon), complex and thoughtful writing, and bands that are in it. Ecause they love the music, not the fame (because there usually isn't any). Rap has none of those virtues, at least from what I've seen, and growing up where I have and watching MTV when younger, I'm not completely ignorant of the genre. It might be wrong to entirely write rap off as a genre, but I don't care because it doesn't appeal to me. I don't like how it sounds, and that's the crux of it.

And, friendly tip Darcy, but songs go in quotes and only album titles are italicized, unless you were using the italics for emphasis.

Thanks for the tip I did not know that.

Do you like any punk music? Even much rock and "alternative" music fails to fit the description you lay out here. Kurt Cobain was not classicaly trained, wrote lyrics that were nonsense, was not a virtuoso, and hated the fame while loving the music.

The thing is, rap along with country music are my two least favourite genres. But I won't blanketly condemn rap music because frankly I can't when it features some truly talented musicians. Tupac had talent, Biggie had talent, Bone Thugs in Harmony had talent, Everlast had talent, and, honestly, Eminem has talent. And I'm only familiar with main-stream rap. There are people into underground rap who could name a plethora of musically solid rappers who I bet if you gave them a shot might impress you.

Writing off rap is like writing off pop music. Pop music might be lame, but artists like Michael Jackson, Justin Timberlake, Usher and many others have songs that only a person biased to the point of being deaf would not like. Yes, I know how awful it must sound for me to be supporting Justin Timberlake and Usher, but if its only the music that you are considering, you must consider at least a small minor segment of their catalogues quite or at least somewhat good.

My brother is a virtuoso musician and he LOVES hip-hop.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Do you like any punk music? Even much rock and "alternative" music fails to fit the description you lay out here. Kurt Cobain was not classicaly trained, wrote lyrics that were nonsense, was not a virtuoso, and hated the fame while loving the music.
I used to enjoy punk a lot more than I do now. It's okay in very small doses, like a song here and there.

And there will always be exceptions to the rule, and Kobain was one of them. He may have been all that you describe, but he knew how to write a song and knew how to create a sound no one had heard before. I don't listen to ultra technical, virtuosic bands only. Some bands that don't fit that mold are Wilco, Fleet Foxes, Neko Cass, They Might Be Giants, Elvis Costello, and a few more I can't think of.


The thing is, rap along with country music are my two least favourite genres. But I won't blanketly condemn rap music because frankly I can't when it features some truly talented musicians. Tupac had talent, Biggie had talent, Bone Thugs in Harmony had talent, Everlast had talent, and, honestly, Eminem has talent. And I'm only familiar with main-stream rap. There are people into underground rap who could name a plethora of musically solid rappers who I bet if you gave them a shot might impress you.
Talent to what? Create a beat on a machine and then talk really fast? The best a rapper can do is write meaningful lyrics. Tupac did that, at least.

Impressing me and me enjoying there music are two quite different things. There're Mongolian throat singers who've impressed me to no end, but I'll never by a CD of their music. The bottom line is I don't want to get into rap. I'm a music snob. Ask Juniper, if she's payed any attention to my FB posts, she can vouch for that.

[Darcy88]

I used to enjoy punk a lot more than I do now. It's okay in very small doses, like a song here and there.

And there will always be exceptions to the rule, and Kobain was one of them. He may have been all that you describe, but he knew how to write a song and knew how to create a sound no one had heard before. I don't listen to ultra technical, virtuosic bands only. Some bands that don't fit that mold are Wilco, Fleet Foxes, Neko Cass, They Might Be Giants, Elvis Costello, and a few more I can't think of.

Talent to what? Create a beat on a machine and then talk really fast? The best a rapper can do is write meaningful lyrics. Tupac did that, at least.

Impressing me and me enjoying there music are two quite different things. There're Mongolian throat singers who've impressed me to no end, but I'll never by a CD of their music. The bottom line is I don't want to get into rap. I'm a music snob. Ask Juniper, if she's payed any attention to my FB posts, she can vouch for that.

I know you're a music snob, and I don't understand musical snobbery. My brother is a virtuoso guitarist. He was playing Van Halen and Jimmi Hendrix and Megadeth/Metallica at 9 years old, Joe Satriani at 12, and for the last decade-plus he's been doing things on the guitar that no one else can do. As a teenager he was playing Paganini sheet music on the guitar.

His favorite musicians are generally Joe Satriani, Dave Martone, Al Dimeola, Marty Friedman of later Megadeth fame, Tupac Shakur, Avril Lavigne, Guns N Roses, Richard Wagner, NWA, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Jimmi Hendrix. 2pac might be his top favorite of the whole bunch. Is he wrong? Does he have bad taste? Would it not be hilarious for any music snob to tell him that his favorite musician did not have much talent? I used to insult him for liking Avril Lavigne. Then later that day he went and did something on the guitar that Kirk Hammett wouldn't attempt in his wildest dreams and in that instant I lost entirely all musical snobbery.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

So, his being a virtuosic musician makes my opinions invalid? I mean, he may be an amazing guitar player (does he have any YouTube videos?) but that doesn't mean his opinions are infallible. Plus, why would him being an amazing guitar player make him an authority on rap? I have a friend who's a brilliant song writer and he likes rap. Just as you may not get me writing off the genre, I honestly can't understand people who have true musical talent being able to appreciate rap.

If he likes rap and enjoys it, good for him. Does that take anything away from his abilities? Absolutely not. Should him being an amazing musician and liking rap somehow change my opinions? Absolutely not.

Bottom line is this: I can't change what I like and don't like. I mean, sometimes I can, but there's a limit, and rap reaches it. It's boring.

[Darcy88]

So, his being a virtuosic musician makes my opinions invalid? I mean, he may be an amazing guitar player (does he have any YouTube videos?) but that doesn't mean his opinions are infallible. Plus, why would him being an amazing guitar player make him an authority on rap? I have a friend who's a brilliant song writer and he likes rap. Just as you may not get me writing off the genre, I honestly can't understand people who have true musical talent being able to appreciate rap.

If he likes rap and enjoys it, good for him. Does that take anything away from his abilities? Absolutely not. Should him being an amazing musician and liking rap somehow change my opinions? Absolutely not.

Bottom line is this: I can't change what I like and don't like. I mean, sometimes I can, but there's a limit, and rap reaches it. It's boring.

I think he does have some youtube videos. I'll find them and pm them to you. The sad thing is that he has actually taken to rapping and is horrible at it but persists in it and as a result has been neglecting his guitar.

My problem is not that you don't like rap, its that you are making statements about the objective worth of the genre and the talent of its artists. I don't like Joyce or Fitzgerald, but I admit that they were very talented. A good friend of mine can't stand opera but he knows and admits that opera performers are accomplished and talented. I don't think Tupac was as talented as Fitzgerald or Joyce nor most opera singers, but that doesn't mean he was wholly devoid of artistic accomplishment. Its really not as easy as you think to make a great rap song. I see my brother try and try and try and fail just as often.

I get where you're coming from though. I used to be the same way about not only rap but about pop as well. Every genre is pretty hit and miss. There are great and awful rappers, bands, pop-stars, ect. I mean there are and have been a lot of bad rock bands, but rock itself is still great.

[mortalterror]

I get where you're coming from though. I used to be the same way about not only rap but about pop as well. Every genre is pretty hit and miss. There are great and awful rappers, bands, pop-stars, ect. I mean there are and have been a lot of bad rock bands, but rock itself is still great.

Darcy is absolutely right. I don't go in for pop music but Michael Jackson's Thriller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA&ob=av2n is amazing. The Monkees were a boy band and they wrote Daydream Believer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSL2-aHj1lg . The Beach Boys were a boy band and they wrote God Only Knows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bau4D6k7KvM and a bunch of other good songs on the classic album Pet Sounds. I don't much care for country music but Hank Williams is a beast with Your Cheatin' Heart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hOGUdROlQk&feature=fvst . Patsy Cline is an angel with Crazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QEDb3xzdec . Johnny Cash was a total badass with Ghost Riders in the Sky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mynzbmrtp9I . Eddy Arnold's Cattle Call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID1_15EK-Ck is pretty dope as is Tennessee Ernie Ford's hit Sixteen Tons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIfu2A0ezq0 . Then there are other minor masterpieces like Blue Moon of Kentucky, etc. If I were to swear off the genre completely I'd never have heard those delightful songs.

[PoeticPassions]

What intellectual merit is there in heavy metal? How is there less in rap than in heavy metal? I think there is enough in both, in addition to the simple power of both, to warrant listening to them. Listen to Eminem's song Not Afraid, to 2pac's California Love or Changes or How Long Will They Mourn Me. Entirely writing off rap is wrong. There is bad rap just as there is bad rock, bad metal, bad everything. Then there is great rap.

I agree with these suggestions and with the sentiment.

There are a lot of amazing lyricists out there also... unfortunately they do not always get air time (the stupid hip hop seems to be more popular performed by the likes of Lil Wayne and T-Paine).

But some underground hip-hop also has a lot to offer... I'd suggest Immortal Technique, the Blue Scholars.

But Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Nas, Lupe Fiasco... are all popular and have a lot to offer as far as good hip-hop and great lyrics go.


Also, I will admit, I really like Eminem and think he has a lot of potential. He's also great at making up lyrics on the spot.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I think he does have some youtube videos. I'll find them and pm them to you. The sad thing is that he has actually taken to rapping and is horrible at it but persists in it and as a result has been neglecting his guitar.
That is unfortunate. Have you told him he should quit with the rapping? I don't know where he'd go with it; just about everything has been done with rap/rock fusion, and I doubt there's much of a place in the market for it anymore.


My problem is not that you don't like rap, its that you are making statements about the objective worth of the genre and the talent of its artists. I don't like Joyce or Fitzgerald, but I admit that they were very talented. A good friend of mine can't stand opera but he knows and admits that opera performers are accomplished and talented. I don't think Tupac was as talented as Fitzgerald or Joyce nor most opera singers, but that doesn't mean he was wholly devoid of artistic accomplishment. Its really not as easy as you think to make a great rap song. I see my brother try and try and try and fail just as often.
I concede that my objective statements are quite possibly wrong, but I believe them. Sure, rap will take some practice to get down, but it's nowhere near the dedication and years of training someone like an opera singer has to go through to master his or her craft.

As to the existence of great rap . . . what people tell me is a great rap song sounds just as good (or just as bad) as what people tell me is a bad rap song.

[mortalterror]

That is unfortunate. Have you told him he should quit with the rapping? I don't know where he'd go with it; just about everything has been done with rap/rock fusion, and I doubt there's much of a place in the market for it anymore.

If we just quit whatever we weren't immediately good at we'd never get good at anything. And it's hard for me to credit "everything has already been done" no matter what artistic field it's uttered about. As for there being no market for rap Eminem, Jay-Z, Kanye West, and Outkast all make a pretty good living.


I concede that my objective statements are quite possibly wrong, but I believe them. Sure, rap will take some practice to get down, but it's nowhere near the dedication and years of training someone like an opera singer has to go through to master his or her craft.

The results are better for opera singers because there have been centuries of opera singers blazing a trail for them to follow. There is no, or very little instruction or path for a rapper to follow to perfect his craft today. Besides, an opera singer is a performer of other people's songs. It's quite a different matter to perform something you've created yourself. If it lasts two and a half centuries it will likely become as sophisticated as Provencal troubadour poetry.


As to the existence of great rap . . . what people tell me is a great rap song sounds just as good (or just as bad) as what people tell me is a bad rap song.

Mutatis, you aren't properly articulating what it is you dislike about rap. You say you don't like it but what is it exactly that you don't like about it specifically? What I dislike about pop songs is not the same as what I dislike about disco. Please listen to this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA-zaE6aevs Rock Box by Run DMC, one of the greatest rap songs ever, and then write down what you either like or dislike about this song.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

As for there being no market for rap Eminem, Jay-Z, Kanye West, and Outkast all make a pretty good living.

I meant a market for rap/rock fusion, specifically new bands of the genre. People have 311 and they seem staisfied with them--they're enough to fill in the rap/rock gap.



Mutatis, you aren't properly articulating what it is you dislike about rap. You say you don't like it but what is it exactly that you don't like about it specifically. What I dislike about pop songs is not the same as what I dislike about disco. Please listen to this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA-zaE6aevs Rock Box by Run DMC, one of the greatest rap songs ever, and then write down what you either like or dislike about this song.
What I generally hate about rap is the repetition, lack of melody, lack of variation, the egocentric or misogynistic lyrical content (I've heard some political lyrics that aren't that bad), lack of actual instrumentation, the vocal style (i.e., lack of singing), and what usually comes off as very bland and boring music.

The song starts good with the guitars, but once the rapping starts, it goes down hill. The main aspect of rap I hate is the repetition. A beat is latched on to, and repeated ad nauseum with barely any variation. This song adds a bit of difference with an actual instrument, the guitar, which is unique--99% of rap I've heard is completely created using computers and sampling (that ultra-talented technique of taking someone else's work and using it--I heard Kanye West sample King Crimson, and I almost puked). Still, this song is repetitive. The rapping is just flat, and quite emotionless. The lyrics are horrible and egocentric like most rap. I grew quite bored with it.

Now, here's a couple songs from Rage Against the Machine that I love. It's about as close to rap as I can get. Note the differences: an actual band, meaningful lyrics, variation, emotion, and even though it's rapped vocals, there's quite an emotional punch behind them.

Rage Against the Machine - "Killing in the Name" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNzIKoAy2pk)

Rage Against the Machine - "Bulls On Parade" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58-36lSqG4&feature=related)

Another artist I was briefly into was Matisyahu. Again, not the differences: band, variation, melody (including melodic vocals).

Matisyahu - "King Without a Crown" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxxuSiC4wNw)

[Darcy88]

I meant a market for rap/rock fusion, specifically new bands of the genre. People have 311 and they seem staisfied with them--they're enough to fill in the rap/rock gap.

What I generally hate about rap is the repetition, lack of melody, lack of variation, the egocentric or misogynistic lyrical content (I've heard some political lyrics that aren't that bad), lack of actual instrumentation, the vocal style (i.e., lack of singing), and what usually comes off as very bland and boring music.

The song starts good with the guitars, but once the rapping starts, it goes down hill. The main aspect of rap I hate is the repetition. A beat is latched on to, and repeated ad nauseum with barely any variation. This song adds a bit of difference with an actual instrument, the guitar, which is unique--99% of rap I've heard is completely created using computers and sampling (that ultra-talented technique of taking someone else's work and using it--I heard Kanye West sample King Crimson, and I almost puked). Still, this song is repetitive. The rapping is just flat, and quite emotionless. The lyrics are horrible and egocentric like most rap. I grew quite bored with it.

Now, here's a couple songs from Rage Against the Machine that I love. It's about as close to rap as I can get. Note the differences: an actual band, meaningful lyrics, variation, emotion, and even though it's rapped vocals, there's quite an emotional punch behind them.

Rage Against the Machine - "Killing in the Name" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNzIKoAy2pk)

Rage Against the Machine - "Bulls On Parade" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58-36lSqG4&feature=related)

Another artist I was briefly into was Matisyahu. Again, not the differences: band, variation, melody (including melodic vocals).

Matisyahu - "King Without a Crown" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxxuSiC4wNw)

Fair enough. You simply do not like rap. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure there are some good country songs I'm missing out on because I avoid that genre at all costs. If you like Rage Against the Machine then you must like at least some rap. A rap song with complex instrumental backing might suit your fancy. My brother puts in a lot of hours on the keyboard making his own beats. There is much musical merit in them, despite the awful vocals he lays on top of them.

[KCurtis]

Whenever people make broad statements like "I don't like rap," I always refer them to The Beastie Boys. If you don't like The Beastie Boys, then you're just a bad person.

Ha ha!! You are funny! Go Beastie Boys!! Seriously, there is good hip-hop out there, sometimes it's just hard to find. There is only one genre I don't like, and it is heavy metal, and I am NOT saying that heavy metal musicians are not talented, some of them truly are. I just don't like the style of guitar in heavy metal. And electric guitar is my favorite instrument. So to be fair, some of the top rock musicians are playing heavy metal, but not for me.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Ha ha!! You are funny! Go Beastie Boys!! Seriously, there is good hip-hop out there, sometimes it's just hard to find. There is only one genre I don't like, and it is heavy metal, and I am NOT saying that heavy metal musicians are not talented, some of them truly are. I just don't like the style of guitar in heavy metal. And electric guitar is my favorite instrument. So to be fair, some of the top rock musicians are playing heavy metal, but not for me.

You're the first person I've heard say they don't like heavy metal for some reason other than the vocals. It's always the vocals. It's kind of refreshing.

[KCurtis]

You're the first person I've heard say they don't like heavy metal for some reason other than the vocals. It's always the vocals. It's kind of refreshing.

oh, why thank you. I try to be fair, so while I don't like something musically, I can still appreciate talent. When it comes to music, I always want to have an open mind because so many my age don't think they should like a certain type of music. I don't want to be that way. At the same time, I will say I don't like disco-at all. Just because it does absolutely nothing for me. But I liked Donna Summers, I thought she was good, but would never buy an album. And I have my musical prejudices-there is a lot I don't like. And I have strong opinions; the Pixies with Frank Black was the best punk band!!

[Adolescent09]

I agree with these suggestions and with the sentiment.

There are a lot of amazing lyricists out there also... unfortunately they do not always get air time (the stupid hip hop seems to be more popular performed by the likes of Lil Wayne and T-Paine).

But some underground hip-hop also has a lot to offer... I'd suggest Immortal Technique, the Blue Scholars.

But Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Nas, Lupe Fiasco... are all popular and have a lot to offer as far as good hip-hop and great lyrics go.


Also, I will admit, I really like Eminem and think he has a lot of potential. He's also great at making up lyrics on the spot.

Not meaning to .... :beatdeadhorse5: but I am so sick of people mentioning mainstream artists like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Nas etc.. as good hip hop. They are DECENT at BEST. GOOD HIP HOP is deep underground like Knowmads, Nieve, Kero One, Blame One, Dan E-O, Yonas, Pismo (production by Kenichiro Nishihara and Soulchef), and Need Not Worry. Aside from that there are literally MILLIONS of underground hip hop artists from today and from the 90s who get ZERO recognition. Some of the ones I've mentioned have less than 200 plays on last.fm alone. The sad fact about mainstream hip hop is that nepotism and close affiliation of successful artists to virtually talentless buffoons abounds (just look at Lil Wayne and his catapulting of Nicki Minaj and Tyga into the spotlight, both of whom are arguably completely devoid of talent).

Check out Dan-EO's lyrics for Dear Hip Hop:


CHORUS:
Dear Hip Hop, I'll love you 'til I die
To taste the grace of your embrace, I will try
My mission is to utilize my skills on the mic
To rid you of the losers, abusers and stereotypes

Dear hip hop, what is the state of your condition?
Niggaz be dishin' fiction making my decision a mission
To rid them from the planet cuz my tracks hacks their wackness
Raps they flap is dryer than habitats of a cactus
Fact is I'm raw skilled cuz God filled me with the spunk to be
So phat, rappers need an elevator to keep up with me
My objective's to be selective with my projections
To carry ya beyond the barriers of new dimensions
So help me slit the slack bros with wack flows
I pack blows to crack foes sweepin' your reach from plateaus
With senseless scripts, their lips is paraplegic
While the level of my lyrics leave their legion with lesions
From when you gave me birth, I've remained true to your rule
Yet phonies try to hold me back like teachers did to them in school
My promise to punish poetic plagues won't end
Cuz ever since I was ten, you been my best ****in' friend

CHORUS (x2)

Now bredren, I comprehend your frustration affiliation
Your evaluation from those outside your nation lacks education
Corrupt critics voice views with no validity
Claiming you're the blame for violence within vicinities
And promotion to penetrate privates' how they depict us
So they deface our albums advising parents with stickers
Hopin' that our **** will die out
They remind me of niggaz in French class
not knowing what the **** they talkin' 'bout
Our expressions exemplify reality
Through artistic talents found in all municipalities
Cuz hip hop, you're growing like dicks during porno flicks
Yet pricks be on my back like slaps when I used to get licks
Man, even pops gives me no props, not understandin'
Why me and you are branded to be lifelong companions
No power possible could prevent me to proceed
To profess rhymes 'til death like a Muslim does a creed

CHORUS (x2)

Now bro, I know who hurts you most besides those who are ignorant
And not articulate is niggaz who figure **** lingers when
They travel down gravel roads of trend interpretation
These imitations cause no fascination but contemplation
Of how they came to commercial composure
Probably writing rhymes upside down on a crucifix the way they crossin' over
Unworthy benefit reapers, sportin' sneakers and beepers
While I be catchin' bags under my sights from sleepless
Nights, writing for life cuz I refuse to feel the e-
ffects of being known by material memorabilia
No matter how they bring you down, I'll stand your ground anyway
Cuz H-I-P H-O-P is in D-A-N's D-N-A
My tracks axe niggaz like questions, I've mastered all
Styles to make rappers look wacker than me playing basketball
Sorry for those who represent what you resent
Like O.J. Simpson, I'm absolutely 100%
Hip hop!

Yours truly

Dan-e-o

[Adolescent09]

As far as metal goes I love Cradle of Filth, Metallica, Slipknot... the usual. Black people my age are usually into mainstream hip hop but I listen to everything from Baroque music to Jazz to Heavy Metal. I love it all or at least most of it ;).

[Adolescent09]

I meant a market for rap/rock fusion, specifically new bands of the genre. People have 311 and they seem staisfied with them--they're enough to fill in the rap/rock gap.

What I generally hate about rap is the repetition, lack of melody, lack of variation, the egocentric or misogynistic lyrical content (I've heard some political lyrics that aren't that bad), lack of actual instrumentation, the vocal style (i.e., lack of singing), and what usually comes off as very bland and boring music.

The song starts good with the guitars, but once the rapping starts, it goes down hill. The main aspect of rap I hate is the repetition. A beat is latched on to, and repeated ad nauseum with barely any variation. This song adds a bit of difference with an actual instrument, the guitar, which is unique--99% of rap I've heard is completely created using computers and sampling (that ultra-talented technique of taking someone else's work and using it--I heard Kanye West sample King Crimson, and I almost puked). Still, this song is repetitive. The rapping is just flat, and quite emotionless. The lyrics are horrible and egocentric like most rap. I grew quite bored with it.

Now, here's a couple songs from Rage Against the Machine that I love. It's about as close to rap as I can get. Note the differences: an actual band, meaningful lyrics, variation, emotion, and even though it's rapped vocals, there's quite an emotional punch behind them.

Rage Against the Machine - "Killing in the Name" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNzIKoAy2pk)

Rage Against the Machine - "Bulls On Parade" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58-36lSqG4&feature=related)

Another artist I was briefly into was Matisyahu. Again, not the differences: band, variation, melody (including melodic vocals).

Matisyahu - "King Without a Crown" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxxuSiC4wNw)

Those songs are all great. I've heard Killing in the Name before. Killer stuff :cornut:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

As far as metal goes I love Cradle of Filth, Metallica, Slipknot... the usual. Black people my age are usually into mainstream hip hop but I listen to everything from Baroque music to Jazz to Heavy Metal. I love it all or at least most of it ;).

You know all that stuff you said about mainstream rap artists getting all the credit while much more talented bands remain in obscurity? Well, that could be applied to those three you listed. :D I like all of them (well, except CoF--can't get into the screechy vocals), but I think the less talented receiving the most fame is an aspect of every genre (with exceptions, of course), except maybe jazz.

And if you like "Killing in the Name," you need to listen to all of Rage's first album. It's brilliant.

My favorite song about (popular) rap is this song, "Spitfall," from Pain of Salvation. Here's the lyrics:


INTRODUCING STAR
we saw you every day
with your hands on your crotch and so much to say
you went from bouncing toy cars with golden motors
to neon striped BMWs and a court of drugged up nodders and quoters
name****ing fame on all photos
all cheered on and applauded by even richer promoters
now when you’re a star
when you’ve reached this far
and the world really knows who you are
(really?)
you show off your six black Mercedeses and drink Cristal like they all do
and the poor outside your gates appall you
and the only hood you see is the one on your car
do you even have a clue as to who you are?
bro I don’t think so
I mean Mercedes
man what a stiff old dull fart’s republican **** car
sick of hearing you preach to the poor like before
only now you’re a coward
only letting TV through your door
getting older
take a bow and just go
the rage on the stage getting colder like your hits on the chart
but then the talk shows can still get you hard
doin’ rhymes on your prime time fistfights and spittin’ grime in the limelight like a star gets a chip off your shoulder
a boulder that rolls and rolls over and over and over
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall

THUS QUOTE THE CRAVING
you’re so ****ing lost that with all of the costs
you still don’t see that in reality
the one thing you fail to buy yourself is a personality
you’re trapped in a mould of the rap
you sell but you’re sold
I mean
can’t believe that you’re paying all that gold
to some home decorator that hands you buckets of conformity
seems you’re losing your way together with your policy man
ending up with a new definition of poverty
it’s a joke
like those you make in every video
to reach the kids with the dough
with every copied “aha yo” and worn out “bro”
guess what we need is yet another clown
who can feed our breed
with another look and hooker hook
now when “*****” is mundane you take the lead with “wassup ho”
and let TV blur your mouth once more
just what we need in every store
thus quote the craving: “forever more!”
you’re so right
a shiny knight on a white steed
truly a hero
yeah right
**** you
**** you right down to the core
you know what?
you’re just another Parental Advisory bore
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall...
when you’re rappin’ your **** y’all

REDEFINING VOMATORIUM
yo
I guess when you’re that loaded
you’d better empty the barrel
every chance you get
is that so?
empty your word and pose magazine
in magazine after magazine
let every shot go let the **** flow
‘cause the show must go on and on and on
you’re it bro
but it’s sad to know
when your star implodes
all that **** hits the fans
just like your words back when you shone
but it’s getting late in the game
trapped in repeating your name
again and again
like you’re scared we’ll forget it
can’t blame you
apart from that name you’re all embarrassingly the same
it’s so lame - can’t you get it?
and perhaps you are right in that fear
more sane than you appear
in your self deploring **** obsessive
koks delirium
but I say
to me you just redefine
the old romans’ vomatorium
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you
claim that you have fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall...

MAN OF THE MASSES
you’re a man of the masses
took all of the classes
their asses are yours
all those bores who are paying the bills
for your palace uphills
and your pills that will help you proceed
in your greed
you are free of the chains that you need on your fans
to adore you
to kneel down before you
more precious to you than your brains and your hands
they live for you
if you could just see this old tree
this patriarchic hierarchy
up where you want to be
you need miles of roots to lick your boots
don’t you see?
you’re a man of the masses
you need all those asses
their fate to relate to the one that you were
do you know who you were?
who you are?
not the one in your words that they buy
they concur you conquer
though a natural flunker
and you need them to stay not to fly
to obey like the dogs that they are
the cogs under the hood of your Mercedes car
they will pay for your trip to the stiff upper lip
you’re a man of the masses
your trip is a journey through classes
you are high
they are low
and you need it to be so
see, without them you’d be nothing more than before
and you know that’s not much
it is just or unjust such:
just a sad little man with his hand on his crotch
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall...
the longer the spit falls...
when you’re rappin’ your **** y’all

YO
you’re just another Parental Advisory sticker surfing beach boy
yo

[Adolescent09]

You know all that stuff you said about mainstream rap artists getting all the credit while much more talented bands remain in obscurity? Well, that could be applied to those three you listed. :D I like all of them (well, except CoF--can't get into the screechy vocals), but I think the less talented receiving the most fame is an aspect of every genre (with exceptions, of course), except maybe jazz.

And if you like "Killing in the Name," you need to listen to all of Rage's first album. It's brilliant.

My favorite song about (popular) rap is this song, "Spitfall," from Pain of Salvation. Here's the lyrics:


INTRODUCING STAR
we saw you every day
with your hands on your crotch and so much to say
you went from bouncing toy cars with golden motors
to neon striped BMWs and a court of drugged up nodders and quoters
name****ing fame on all photos
all cheered on and applauded by even richer promoters
now when you’re a star
when you’ve reached this far
and the world really knows who you are
(really?)
you show off your six black Mercedeses and drink Cristal like they all do
and the poor outside your gates appall you
and the only hood you see is the one on your car
do you even have a clue as to who you are?
bro I don’t think so
I mean Mercedes
man what a stiff old dull fart’s republican **** car
sick of hearing you preach to the poor like before
only now you’re a coward
only letting TV through your door
getting older
take a bow and just go
the rage on the stage getting colder like your hits on the chart
but then the talk shows can still get you hard
doin’ rhymes on your prime time fistfights and spittin’ grime in the limelight like a star gets a chip off your shoulder
a boulder that rolls and rolls over and over and over
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall

THUS QUOTE THE CRAVING
you’re so ****ing lost that with all of the costs
you still don’t see that in reality
the one thing you fail to buy yourself is a personality
you’re trapped in a mould of the rap
you sell but you’re sold
I mean
can’t believe that you’re paying all that gold
to some home decorator that hands you buckets of conformity
seems you’re losing your way together with your policy man
ending up with a new definition of poverty
it’s a joke
like those you make in every video
to reach the kids with the dough
with every copied “aha yo” and worn out “bro”
guess what we need is yet another clown
who can feed our breed
with another look and hooker hook
now when “*****” is mundane you take the lead with “wassup ho”
and let TV blur your mouth once more
just what we need in every store
thus quote the craving: “forever more!”
you’re so right
a shiny knight on a white steed
truly a hero
yeah right
**** you
**** you right down to the core
you know what?
you’re just another Parental Advisory bore
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall...
when you’re rappin’ your **** y’all

REDEFINING VOMATORIUM
yo
I guess when you’re that loaded
you’d better empty the barrel
every chance you get
is that so?
empty your word and pose magazine
in magazine after magazine
let every shot go let the **** flow
‘cause the show must go on and on and on
you’re it bro
but it’s sad to know
when your star implodes
all that **** hits the fans
just like your words back when you shone
but it’s getting late in the game
trapped in repeating your name
again and again
like you’re scared we’ll forget it
can’t blame you
apart from that name you’re all embarrassingly the same
it’s so lame - can’t you get it?
and perhaps you are right in that fear
more sane than you appear
in your self deploring **** obsessive
koks delirium
but I say
to me you just redefine
the old romans’ vomatorium
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you
claim that you have fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall...

MAN OF THE MASSES
you’re a man of the masses
took all of the classes
their asses are yours
all those bores who are paying the bills
for your palace uphills
and your pills that will help you proceed
in your greed
you are free of the chains that you need on your fans
to adore you
to kneel down before you
more precious to you than your brains and your hands
they live for you
if you could just see this old tree
this patriarchic hierarchy
up where you want to be
you need miles of roots to lick your boots
don’t you see?
you’re a man of the masses
you need all those asses
their fate to relate to the one that you were
do you know who you were?
who you are?
not the one in your words that they buy
they concur you conquer
though a natural flunker
and you need them to stay not to fly
to obey like the dogs that they are
the cogs under the hood of your Mercedes car
they will pay for your trip to the stiff upper lip
you’re a man of the masses
your trip is a journey through classes
you are high
they are low
and you need it to be so
see, without them you’d be nothing more than before
and you know that’s not much
it is just or unjust such:
just a sad little man with his hand on his crotch
there’s nothing like a broken childhood
there’s nothing like a broken home
there’s nothing like a tale from your hood
there’s nothing like a record of restriction orders
outspoken borderline disorders
a violent long way to the top
the longer that you fought yourself up
the longer the spitfall...
the longer the spit falls...
when you’re rappin’ your **** y’all

YO
you’re just another Parental Advisory sticker surfing beach boy
yo

Wow those lyrics nail most of mainstream hip hop on the head!! Brilliant. BTW what was Rage's first album? And I was wondering, do you like Guns N' Roses? And what do you think of Drowning Pool? I only know a handful of heavy metal bands/classic rock and roll bands but the stuff I hear gets better and better the more I listen to it. :smile5:

[mortalterror]

I think the best rap song about rap is Common's "I Used To Love HER" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C99iG4HoO1c

[Chorus]
Yes yes y'all and you don't stop
1,2 y'all and you don't stop
Yes yes y'all and you don't stop
1,2 Com-Sense is gonna' drop

Verse One:

I met this girl, when I was 10 years old
And what I loved most, she had so much soul
She was old school, when I was just a shorty
Never knew throughout my life she would be there for me
On the regular, not a church girl, she was secular
Not about the money, no studs was mic checkin her
But I respected her, she hit me in the heart
A few New York niggaz, had did her in the park
But she was there for me, and I was there for her
Pull out a chair for her, turn on the air for her
And just cool out, cool out and listen to her
Sittin on bone, wishin that I could do her
Eventually if it was meant to be, then it would be
Cuz' we related, physically and mentally
And she was fun then, I'd be geeked when she'd come around
Slim was fresh jo, when she was underground
Original, pure untampered and down sister
Boy I tell ya, I miss her

[Chorus]
Yes yes y'all and you don't stop
1,2 y'all and you don't stop
Yes yes y'all and you don't stop
1,2 Com-Sense is gonna' drop

Verse Two:

Now periodically I would see
Ol' girl at the clubs, and at the house parties
She didn't have a body but she started gettin' thick quick
Did a couple of videos and became afrocentric
Out goes the weave, in goes the braids beads medallions
She was on that tip about, stoppin the violence
About my people she was teachin me
But not preachin to me but speakin to me
In a method that was leisurely, so easily I approached
She dug my rap, that's how we got close
But then she broke to the West coast, and that was cool
Cause around the same time, I went away to school
And I'm a man of expandin', so why should I stand in her way?
She probably get her money in L.A.
And she did stud, she got big pub but what was foul
She said that the pro-black, was goin out of style
She said, "Afrocentricity, was of the past."
So she got into R&B hip-house bass and jazz
Now black music is black music and it's all good
I wasn't salty, she was with the boys in the hood
Cause that was good for her, she was becomin well rounded
I thought it was dope how she was on that freestyle ****
Just havin' fun, not worried about anyone
And you could tell, by how her titties hung

[Chorus]
Yes yes y'all and you don't stop
1,2 y'all and you don't stop
Yes yes y'all and you don't stop
1,2 Com-Sense is gonna' drop

Verse Three:

I might've failed to mention that the chick was creative
But once the man got to her, he altered the native
Told her if she got an image and a gimmick
That she could make money, and she did it like a dummy
Now I see her in commercials, she's universal
She used to only swing it with the inner-city circle
Now she be in the burbs lookin' rock and dressin' hip
And on some dumb ****, when she comes to the city
Talkin about poppin glocks, servin rocks, and hittin switches
Now she's a gangsta rollin with gangsta *****es
Always smokin blunts and gettin drunk
Tellin me sad stories, now she only ****s with the funk
Stressin how hardcore and real she is
She was really the realest, before she got into show-biz
I did her, not just to say that I did it
But I'm committed, but so many niggaz hit it
That she's just not the same lettin all these groupies do her
I see niggaz slammin her, and takin her to the sewer
But I'ma take her back hopin that the **** stop
Cause who I'm talkin bout y'all is hip-hop

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Wow those lyrics nail most of mainstream hip hop on the head!! Brilliant. BTW what was Rage's first album? And I was wondering, do you like Guns N' Roses? And what do you think of Drowning Pool? I only know a handful of heavy metal bands/classic rock and roll bands but the stuff I hear gets better and better the more I listen to it. :smile5:

Rage's first album is self-titled.

As to Guns N' Roses and Drowning Pool . . . not really.

[PoeticPassions]

Not meaning to .... :beatdeadhorse5: but I am so sick of people mentioning mainstream artists like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Nas etc.. as good hip hop. They are DECENT at BEST. GOOD HIP HOP is deep underground like Knowmads, Nieve, Kero One, Blame One, Dan E-O, Yonas, Pismo (production by Kenichiro Nishihara and Soulchef), and Need Not Worry. Aside from that there are literally MILLIONS of underground hip hop artists from today and from the 90s who get ZERO recognition. Some of the ones I've mentioned have less than 200 plays on last.fm alone. The sad fact about mainstream hip hop is that nepotism and close affiliation of successful artists to virtually talentless buffoons abounds (just look at Lil Wayne and his catapulting of Nicki Minaj and Tyga into the spotlight, both of whom are arguably completely devoid of talent).



Well you can be sick of it or not, but it is a matter of subjective opinion and tastes... (and I don't think one can argue over tastes, particularly in music). I like Talib and Lupe a lot. Just because they are mainstream doesn't make them less valuable (to each individual) or less creative. Sure, not all of their music is good, but a lot of it is... and they have been smart in many ways to be able to attain the degree of fame they have without completely selling out. (I agree about Nicki Minaje and Tyga)

I listen to underground hip-hop as well and there are a lot of talented rappers and artists out there... but like Mutatis pointed out, these talented ones often do not get really famous or enough air time, in most genres of music.

[Darcy88]

Rage's first album is self-titled.

As to Guns N' Roses and Drowning Pool . . . not really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmAY059TTY&ob=av3e

It builds. The solos at the end are fan-****ing-tastic. Disregard the ridiculous narcissism and cheesy happenings throughout, if that's possible. The end chorus is pretty amazing too. Its just a great tune. Damn great tune.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w7OgIMMRc4&ob=av3n

Yeah, you've heard this song played 50 billion times past death on the radio but skip to 230 and listen to that whole solo that picks up to a nuclear frenzy around the 3 minute mark and then go light a candle before an icon of Slash and religiously keep that thing burning forever.


And if all that fails watch this and notice not Axl's sweet clear vocals nor his fine whistle but rather those virtuosic dance moves of his which do put a prime Michael Jackson to shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvgV4P6Fzc

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

It's not that I think Guns 'N Roses are a bad band (though I wouldn't go so far as to call them good), I just don't like them. I can't stand Axl's voice and I find Slash to be one of the most overrated guitar players ever. I do like "Welcome to the Jungle," though--I've always really enjoyed that song. And I like Sheryl Crow's version of "Sweet Child of Mine."

[Darcy88]

It's not that I think Guns 'N Roses are a bad band (though I wouldn't go so far as to call them good), I just don't like them. I can't stand Axl's voice and I find Slash to be one of the most overrated guitar players ever. I do like "Welcome to the Jungle," though--I've always really enjoyed that song. And I like Sheryl Crow's version of "Sweet Child of Mine."

He wrote that Sweet Child o' Mine solo. He could have cured cancer and been the first man to set foot on Mars but I'd always think of him as the guy who wrote that solo.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

He wrote that Sweet Child o' Mine solo. He could have cured cancer and been the first man to set foot on Mars but I'd always think of him as the guy who wrote that solo.

:lol:

[Babyguile]

Mutas Mutandi you sound like someone who worships Dream Theater and Tool (not a good thing). Your generalisations about metal and rap are pathetic at best. Please just admit ignorance about rap and then have the decency to stop talking it down, thank you.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Mutas Mutandi you sound like someone who worships Dream Theater and Tool (not a good thing). Your generalisations about metal and rap are pathetic at best. Please just admit ignorance about rap and then have the decency to stop talking it down, thank you.

Or maybe you could point out why I'm wrong rather than being insulting. I've been quite explanatory on my reasons for disliking rap, and I have a right to me opinion. Quit being so hostile, it's not my fault you have horrible taste.

And I don't worship Dream Theater or Tool, though I do enjoy them. I'm more of a classical worshipper now.

[Babyguile]

It wasn't my intention to be insulting and quite frankly, I could have been harsher and it would have been justified. I didn't insult you personally of course.

To say I have bad taste in music without knowing what my taste in music is was an astonishing and unexpected thing to say. I'm kind of floored by that to be honest...

Anyway, I'm not going to explain why you're wrong, that would require effort from me. I just want you to stop chatting rubbish about something you know nothing about (rap) because I'm cringing.

Just please lol

[Babyguile]

I will name drop Jean Grae though, and you should definately listen to some of her songs on Youtube or elsewhere; and upon doing so, if you don't like them, you can explain why and you might therefore come up with some reputable reasons for not liking rap.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Blah blah blah. Your little routine of insulting someone and then expressing surprise when being called out on it and playing the innocent has gotten old.

[Babyguile]

...listen to Jean Grae?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yeah. It sucked. I don't like rap, get over it.

[RicMisc]

Let's not turn this into a personal fight you guys, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I personally am not a huge fan of rap though there are some songs which I really like. I have always really liked 'When I'm Gone' by Eminem. It's one of his more sensitive raps and it's probably one of the first songs I knew by heart from A to Z.

The video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wYNFfgrXTI

These are the lyrics:
[Introduction]
Yeah...
It's my life...
My own words I guess...

[Verse 1]
Have you ever loved someone so much, you'd give an arm for?
Not the expression, no, literally give an arm for?
When they know they're your heart
And you know you were their armour
And you will destroy anyone who would try to harm her
But what happens when karma, turns right around and bites you?
And everything you stand for, turns on you to spite you?
What happens when you become the main source of her pain?
"Daddy look what I made", Dad's gotta go catch a plane
"Daddy where's Mommy? I can't find Mommy where is she?"
I don't know go play Hailie, baby, your Daddy's busy
Daddy's writing a song, this song ain't gonna write itself
I'll give you one underdog then you gotta swing by yourself
Then turn right around in that song and tell her you love her
And put hands on her mother, who's a spitting image of her
That's Slim Shady, yeah baby, Slim Shady's crazy
Shady made me, but tonight Shady's rocka-by-baby...

[Chorus]
And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just smile back
And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just smile back...

[Verse 2]
I keep having this dream, I'm pushin' Hailie on the swing
She keeps screaming, she don't want me to sing
"You're making Mommy cry, why? Why is Mommy crying?"
Baby, Daddy ain't leaving no more, "Daddy you're lying
"You always say that, you always say this is the last time
"But you ain't leaving no more, Daddy you're mine"
She's piling boxes in front of the door trying to block it
"Daddy please, Daddy don't leave, Daddy - no stop it!"
Goes in her pocket, pulls out a tiny necklace locket
It's got a picture, "this'll keep you safe Daddy, take it withcha'"
I look up, it's just me standing in the mirror
These ****in' walls must be talking, cuz man I can hear 'em
They're saying "You've got one more chance to do right" - and it's tonight
Now go out there and show that you love 'em before it's too late
And just as I go to walk out of my bedroom door
It turns to a stage, they're gone, and this spotlight is on
And I'm singing...

[Chorus]
And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just smile back
And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just smile back...

[Verse 3]
Sixty thousand people, all jumping out their seat
The curtain closes, they're throwing roses at my feet
I take a bow and thank you all for coming out
They're screaming so loud, I take one last look at the crowd
I glance down, I don't believe what I'm seeing
"Daddy it's me, help Mommy, her wrists are bleeding,"
But baby we're in Sweden, how did you get to Sweden?
"I followed you Daddy, you told me that you weren't leavin'
"You lied to me Dad, and now you make Mommy sad
"And I bought you this coin, it says 'Number One Dad'
"That's all I wanted, I just want to give you this coin
"I get the point - fine, me and Mommy are going"
But baby wait, "it's too late Dad, you made the choice
"Now go out there and show 'em that you love 'em more than us"
That's what they want, they want you Marshall, they keep.. screamin' your name
It's no wonder you can't go to sleep, just take another pill
Yeah, I bet you will. You rap about it, yeah, word, k-keep it real
I hear applause, all this time I couldn't see
How could it be, that the curtain is closing on me
I turn around, find a gun on the ground, **** it
Put it to my brain and scream "die Shady" and pop it
The sky darkens, my life flashes, the plane that I was supposed to be on crashes and burns to ashes
That's when I wake up, alarm clock's ringin', there's birds singin'
It's Spring and Hailie's outside swinging, I walk right up to Kim and kiss her
Tell her I miss her, Hailie just smiles and winks at her little sister
Almost as if to say..

[Chorus/Outro]
And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just smile back
And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel no pain
Just smile back...

[Curtains closing and sounds of clapping]

[Bluebeard]

There are so many problems with this discussion, I'm not even going to try.

But this is for Mutatis-Mutandi (with respect):

I think that your understanding of musical "taste" is very off-base from what the word should signify to the contemporary listener who is serious about music as an art form. Taste in music is not about restricting yourself to "superior" works that are more virtuosic or serious than others, thereby accruing a sort of cultural capital with which to establish yourself as a higher class person than other listeners.

Taste signifies your ability to appreciate the experience of music on a deep and affective level. In the classical tradition of music, the intention and craft of the musicians is geared towards this kind of deep experience from the get-go. As a fellow worshipper, you probably know what I mean.

But where does this depth come from? Is it purely a matter of how much effort is put into the work, how much virtuosity it displays, or how "serious" it is? No - these are important attributes to the music, certainly, but they are not the source of its depth. Great music is always a response, a reaction of the artist to the profound musicality they have discovered in the world around them. And this is the true meaning of "taste" - one's ability to tap into and appreciate the musicality of their world. For example, Bela Bartok (my favorite composer) was very powerfully affected by simple (what you might consider intellectually vacant) Hungarian folk tunes, and in his vast and utterly incredible body of work you will not find one piece of music that is not fundamentally marked by this experience. Morton Feldman, another giant, was far more interested in the sonority and sonic potential of the piano itself than any complex or virtuosic composition that was played on it.

So, my point is: writing off a genre or style of music because you do not find it intellectually stimulating is a flaw in your taste, not a virtue. Closing yourself off to any kind of musical experience is a symptom of dull-mindedness and non-musicality. The only reason you would ever pride yourself on a closed mind is to establish your own experiences as superior to those of others, which is the highest form of arrogance. Music is not an intellectual pursuit; it is a sensuous, full-body-mind experience whose appreciation completely transcends the intellect. And as a fellow serious listener, I must say that there is more than enough of this in Hip Hop to establish it as a legitimate genre of music.

[cafolini]

There are so many problems with this discussion, I'm not even going to try.

But this is for Mutatis-Mutandi (with respect):

I think that your understanding of musical "taste" is very off-base from what the word should signify to the contemporary listener who is serious about music as an art form. Taste in music is not about restricting yourself to "superior" works that are more virtuosic or serious than others, thereby accruing a sort of cultural capital with which to establish yourself as a higher class person than other listeners.

Taste signifies your ability to appreciate the experience of music on a deep and affective level. In the classical tradition of music, the intention and craft of the musicians is geared towards this kind of deep experience from the get-go. As a fellow worshipper, you probably know what I mean.

But where does this depth come from? Is it purely a matter of how much effort is put into the work, how much virtuosity it displays, or how "serious" it is? No - these are important attributes to the music, certainly, but they are not the source of its depth. Great music is always a response, a reaction of the artist to the profound musicality they have discovered in the world around them. And this is the true meaning of "taste" - one's ability to tap into and appreciate the musicality of their world. For example, Bela Bartok (my favorite composer) was very powerfully affected by simple (what you might consider intellectually vacant) Hungarian folk tunes, and in his vast and utterly incredible body of work you will not find one piece of music that is not fundamentally marked by this experience. Morton Feldman, another giant, was far more interested in the sonority and sonic potential of the piano itself than any complex or virtuosic composition that was played on it.

So, my point is: writing off a genre or style of music because you do not find it intellectually stimulating is a flaw in your taste, not a virtue. Closing yourself off to any kind of musical experience is a symptom of dull-mindedness and non-musicality. The only reason you would ever pride yourself on a closed mind is to establish your own experiences as superior to those of others, which is the highest form of arrogance. Music is not an intellectual pursuit; it is a sensuous, full-body-mind experience whose appreciation completely transcends the intellect. And as a fellow serious listener, I must say that there is more than enough of this in Hip Hop to establish it as a legitimate genre of music.

How could anyone not agree with this, rap fun or not? Good message for any music.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

There are so many problems with this discussion, I'm not even going to try.

But this is for Mutatis-Mutandi (with respect):

I think that your understanding of musical "taste" is very off-base from what the word should signify to the contemporary listener who is serious about music as an art form. Taste in music is not about restricting yourself to "superior" works that are more virtuosic or serious than others, thereby accruing a sort of cultural capital with which to establish yourself as a higher class person than other listeners.

Taste signifies your ability to appreciate the experience of music on a deep and affective level. In the classical tradition of music, the intention and craft of the musicians is geared towards this kind of deep experience from the get-go. As a fellow worshipper, you probably know what I mean.

But where does this depth come from? Is it purely a matter of how much effort is put into the work, how much virtuosity it displays, or how "serious" it is? No - these are important attributes to the music, certainly, but they are not the source of its depth. Great music is always a response, a reaction of the artist to the profound musicality they have discovered in the world around them. And this is the true meaning of "taste" - one's ability to tap into and appreciate the musicality of their world. For example, Bela Bartok (my favorite composer) was very powerfully affected by simple (what you might consider intellectually vacant) Hungarian folk tunes, and in his vast and utterly incredible body of work you will not find one piece of music that is not fundamentally marked by this experience. Morton Feldman, another giant, was far more interested in the sonority and sonic potential of the piano itself than any complex or virtuosic composition that was played on it.

So, my point is: writing off a genre or style of music because you do not find it intellectually stimulating is a flaw in your taste, not a virtue. Closing yourself off to any kind of musical experience is a symptom of dull-mindedness and non-musicality. The only reason you would ever pride yourself on a closed mind is to establish your own experiences as superior to those of others, which is the highest form of arrogance. Music is not an intellectual pursuit; it is a sensuous, full-body-mind experience whose appreciation completely transcends the intellect. And as a fellow serious listener, I must say that there is more than enough of this in Hip Hop to establish it as a legitimate genre of music.

I do not write of hip-off because I don't find it intellectually stimulating, I wire it off because I don't find it stimulating in any way, whether it's the popular rap or the "underground" stuff that is supposedly better. I've listened to both, and both affect me equally as little, which is to say not at all, unless you count annoyance.

I don't know where you got the idea of my full musical taste; maybe I wasn't clear enough in my earlier posts. I don't like rap. This isn't because I am forcing myself to not like it because I think it's beneath me, but because I do not enjoy it. By your concrete description of what musical taste should be, one should enjoy something from all genres. Well, sorry, that's not the case for me.

I enjoy the music I enjoy. Here's how far my process goes when I'm deciding if I like something: when I hear a piece of music, if I find myself enjoying it, I enjoy it. Done. Whether or not it's intellectual has nothing to do with it--I wouldn't like bands such as They Might Be Giantsm Cake, or any number of metal bands that are decidedly low-brow.

[Babyguile]

Mutas why did you even come into this thread? Do you just like the sound of your own voice?

You don't like rap/hip-hop because...you don't. Whatever, I don't think anyone cares anymore at this point. Just leave the thread to allow the discussion about hip-hop to actually develop and the OP intended.

You're just stalling the thread at this point.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I hate the sound of my voice, but I admit I like the looks of my writing.

Stalling the thread? Bluebeard addressed me directly. I'm not allowed to answer him?

Anyways, from the looks of things, the thread was quite stalled before I made that last post. If you'd like to start a discussion about rap, go ahead. I've made my feelings and opinions known, and I didn't plan to post anymore, but if someone addresses me directly, I will respond. I doubt it's "stalling" in any way to do so.

Plus, your very mention of stalling has stalled it more, as it has brought up the subject of stalling, and now we're talking about stalling whereas it wasn't even an issue. If you wanted to un-stall the thread, you should've ignored me, the supposed staller, and tried rerouting the discussion.

I'm curious, though, how'd you change your name from TheDave to Babyguile?

[Babyguile]

Well here you are derailing the thread to something completely irrelevant! I asked for it to be changed to that. People kept thinking I was a guy, and I use that alias (BabyGuile) in other places on the internet so it was an easy choice. Do you like it?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

You derailed it first.

I find it to be an extremely lame name. I was just curious as to how you changed it. I didn't know that was possible.

[Darcy88]

Mutas why did you even come into this thread? Do you just like the sound of your own voice?

You don't like rap/hip-hop because...you don't. Whatever, I don't think anyone cares anymore at this point. Just leave the thread to allow the discussion about hip-hop to actually develop and the OP intended.

You're just stalling the thread at this point.

Yeah, rational discussion, a reasoned sharing of opinions, disagreement, all so very bad.

I love Eminem. I'm listening to Mozart as I type, just listened to some Ella Fitzgerald, but I love the music of Eminem.

But people are entitled to their opinions and a clash of opinions is not only necessary - its fun.

[Babyguile]

Jazz and heavy metal are my two favourite genres! I have yet to give a toss about classical music, and there's still far too much jazz and metal that I haven't explored to start caring about classical music any time soon; but I'm like that: stubborn and preferring to stick with what I know I love. I'm also taking a liking to folk music, which is scary to me. I only listen to a handful of rap artists.