'Earthlings'

[BookBeauty]

I thought that a rather serious topic that isn't often covered these days is the way that animals are mistreated, and how we, as a society, have a tendency to rationalize things away to feel better about ourselves.

A documentary called 'Earthlings' says this more poignantly than anything that I could ever write about.

But, if you're looking to watch it: Massive disclaimer. This is seriously graphic, terrible violence against animals through slaughterhouses, and factory farming, and general production industries.

I haven't been able to finish watching the video yet, myself, although I think I owe it to myself to do so. I think that this is a video that everyone should see, because this is what is happening, and the truth is important to know.

www.earthlings.com

I only hope that I am putting this across in as respectful a way as possible, and that this is an appropriate topic.

Thoughts?

[Helga]

This is actually a big topic here on the ice now. When I was 15 I did a lot of research on the subject and saw many videos and read many articles about animal abuse. I decided to become a vegetarian because of the treatment these 'slaughterhouse animals' get. People told me at the time that it's not like that here on the pure and perfect ice but now we are getting reports about the terrible abuse that is going on.

I don't think I need to watch more videos cause I have seen my share I think but I do agree with you Bookbeauty that it is something people should see and know. It's so easy to look at the meat neatly packed and not think about the animal torture behind it.

The cruelest specie is the human being, when it comes to animals, the earth and often other people.

I don't think you need to be a vegetarian to have an issue with this, that was just how I wanted to react and I felt there wasn't that much I could do as a simple girl on an island in the sea. Many people try to buy from local farmers cause that way they know the animal wasn't treated badly but the big slaughterhouses are cheaper and most people think about that.

[Darcy88]

Factory farms are revoltingly merciless in how they treat animals. I remember hearing a stat about some small Nordic country or maybe it was Denmark where the human population was only a few million but the pig population was well over ten million, though behind the factory walls those millions of pigs were concealed. Anyone who has a pet dog knows that animals can suffer much like humans can. Fear, depression and pain are all basic emotions seated in the oldest part of our brain, the part we share with the socalled "lower" beasts.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I try not to eat factory meat.

[BookBeauty]

It's not just how they treat the animals either-- Which is grotesque and evil by itself, but the implications on pollution, and the environment are enormous. Factory farming simply isn't sustainable for the planet. :S

I have been recently taking steps from vegetarianism into veganism, but it's a long process. I mostly eat vegan, but there are things in the house that are not that must be used up. :) But, no use labeling anyhow. It's all about every step that each person takes to try to do good, for the better.

I know a lot of people think that they can't make a difference, but the truth is, we do.

I'll paraphrase Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

''People do make a difference.

Everything we do, everything we buy, everything we eat makes an impact on someone, or something else. We don't get to decide on whether what we do makes a difference or not. We get to decide only if the difference we inevitably make is negative, or positive. There are no neutral actions.''

Here she is, if interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWD1Zze5Qo4

[Helga]

here on the ice there aren't that many laws about animal welfare or of the way they are treated in slaughterhouses. Just in the past year two groups have been formed to make sure something is done about this and it is working. New laws will be discussed in the senate soon.

I think veganism is difficult isn't it a long process? I haven't gone that far but often thought about it.

[BookBeauty]

I think veganism is difficult isn't it a long process? I haven't gone that far but often thought about it.

It's not that difficult, since veganism is really more of a personal choice than about following set rules. It's just about not eating anything coming from an animal (dietary). Some also try not to use any animal products, such as honey, wool, silk, fur, etc. (Ethical). There are varying degrees of it, and I'll do my best to minimize my carbon footprint, within practical reason. :) There are some things that simply cannot be avoided.

Eating a plant-based diet, at the very least, I think anyway, is healthier. It does need to be researched before undertaking. You've got to have a handle on nutrition, and taking B12 supplements if you won't be eating any milk, eggs, or meat. B12 is actually safer from supplements, I think. The only reason it's found in meat is because it's a bacteria.

It's no good to be eating junk food on a plant-based diet. It's all about lots of fruits, and vegetables, and whole grains, with nuts and seeds. Then there's the argument about whether or not soy is good for you, and alternatives to meat, things like tempeh and tofu. (I love these!)

If you'd like to find out more information, here are a couple of sites:

http://www.theveganrd.com/food-guide-for-vegans

:) And:

http://www.healthyeatingstartshere.com/faq

[Helga]

Thanks I'll check it out

I use a lot of dairy products, butter and cheese mainly.

I have a small issue with milk cause it's something we don't really need and it comes from an animal that produces it for it's young also they way it changes in the whole process is odd. (I know where cheese and butter come from)

I don't wear leather or fur but I use wool and I don't actually see the problem with it. I know in some countries it's not done in a very friendly way but here on the ice that is one part of the farmers process that we do know everything about and it's a good process besides the sheep definitively don't feel good with all the wool hanging.

[BookBeauty]

Thanks I'll check it out

I use a lot of dairy products, butter and cheese mainly.

I have a small issue with milk cause it's something we don't really need and it comes from an animal that produces it for it's young also they way it changes in the whole process is odd. (I know where cheese and butter come from)

I don't wear leather or fur but I use wool and I don't actually see the problem with it. I know in some countries it's not done in a very friendly way but here on the ice that is one part of the farmers process that we do know everything about and it's a good process besides the sheep definitively don't feel good with all the wool hanging.

It's really great to see that there are people who are aware. I don't think veganism is a step that every single person can take-- But, at the very least, we should all be informed. :) It sounds like you know what's going on where you live, and I think that's the most important thing. Of course smaller, more rural areas will be more humane (I can always hope anyway :) )

[Helga]

It's a strange coincident but just yesterday my brother got me to sign in as a member of a new 'more radical' animal welfare group here. he wanted me in cause his girlfriend is REALLY radical and he is not that much so but wanted an honest outsiders opinion cause I am not the type that will go out and do something big. I am happy to be behind the curtain talking about this but not going out there, I think it's good to have both types.

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that goes on here and noone knows about or cares about.

People on the ice in general want to believe that meat comes in neat packages with no trouble behind, they don't want to know about the factories and how the food ends up on their plate. Same goes with most environmental things.

One thing I am curious Bookbeauty , have you always looked at fish in the same way as other animals? people usually judge me most for not eating fish. In part it's an 'icelandic' thing but most don't consider fish as an animal in the same sense as a sheep or a cow.

[BookBeauty]

It's a strange coincident but just yesterday my brother got me to sign in as a member of a new 'more radical' animal welfare group here. he wanted me in cause his girlfriend is REALLY radical and he is not that much so but wanted an honest outsiders opinion cause I am not the type that will go out and do something big. I am happy to be behind the curtain talking about this but not going out there, I think it's good to have both types.

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that goes on here and noone knows about or cares about.

People on the ice in general want to believe that meat comes in neat packages with no trouble behind, they don't want to know about the factories and how the food ends up on their plate. Same goes with most environmental things.

One thing I am curious Bookbeauty , have you always looked at fish in the same way as other animals? people usually judge me most for not eating fish. In part it's an 'icelandic' thing but most don't consider fish as an animal in the same sense as a sheep or a cow.

Despite the fact that in Norway, they tote fish as being the best thing since sliced bread to eat, and very nutritious, it also comes with pollutants such as mercury, which can affect your brain. Also, since the majority of the fish you get at the supermarkets are bred, they're eating stuff outside of their natural habitat and being stuffed with chemicals, hormones, to grow. Even when you buy from the ocean-- It's being overfished, and, again, you're getting the pollutants.

But, from a more ethical, 'is it right to kill them standpoint'-- I believe that life is precious. Even tiny little bugs. So I try my best to limit my harm. It may seem silly, but I think that in this day and age, since we have the resources, we can get our nutrients without killing.

I'll never forget, when I was a kid, there were a couple of boys fishing. And just to bug me, they'd pull up a fish, and smash it against the dock over and over again. I was so upset. I think I might have even cried.

Killing anything encourages violence, and brings out the worst in people.

Another interesting anecdote is that fish actually can feel pain. They remember fishing nets, and traumatizing events, like any animal. Like us.

We should never underestimate the consciousness of other living things. :)

I think that it's really awesome that you don't eat fish, and that you're living by your values and ethics. People may look down on you, maybe even think you're odd, but deep down, I think that everyone wants to do what you're doing, and they might be a little bit jealous that you have the guts to stand up for what you believe in. No matter what it is.

[Darcy88]

Killing anything encourages violence, and brings out the worst in people.
.

I think the real problem is that people don't kill animals. If everyone had to take a field trip to a slaughterhouse in the 10th grade and kill a pig or cow they might gain an appreciation of what it exactly is they eat out of the supermarket packages. They might not eat meat at every meal as though nothing gave its life that they may.

Killing things is the way of nature. I know that sounds like a weak arguement, but I don't see how someone who hunts is somehow less moral than one who does not. How many bugs die in the production of your vegetable food? Quite a few I'd reckon. To live is to kill, always has been, always will. The barbarity of the meat industry is not that it kills and does so prolifically. Its the horrid conditions in which it confines the animals, the disgusting way it treats them. Footage from inside a factory farm is enough to make anyone sick. A lot of people who work in them never eat meat again.

[BookBeauty]

I think the real problem is that people don't kill animals. If everyone had to take a field trip to a slaughterhouse in the 10th grade and kill a pig or cow they might gain an appreciation of what it exactly is they eat out of the supermarket packages. They might not eat meat at every meal as though nothing gave its life that they may.

Killing things is the way of nature. I know that sounds like a weak arguement, but I don't see how someone who hunts is somehow less moral than one who does not. How many bugs die in the production of your vegetable food? Quite a few I'd reckon. To live is to kill, always has been, always will. The barbarity of the meat industry is not that it kills and does so prolifically. Its the horrid conditions in which it confines the animals, the disgusting way it treats them. Footage from inside a factory farm is enough to make anyone sick. A lot of people who work in them never eat meat again.

Oh, definitely.

I'm not saying that anyone is better or worse, I only encourage others to live by their own personal values, whatever they may be. Hunting or not.

Death is a part of life, and a very important part. I recognize that the pesticides used to treat my unorganic produce has killed bugs. I can't avoid stepping on every single bug outside in the summertime (I do my best :prrr:). And many animals have died through agriculture as well.

But, those workers that have to work in those terrible places become desensitized to their work. Having to kill these animals in the first place can't be easy. And then they go home, traumatized, and they're the sort of people who take it out on their family. Physically.

It's just the mass production of it all. We cannot sustain this way of life. Breeding constantly, chaining these animals up and using them for our own gain. When you have anything being mass produced, when it's all about time, it's going to be horrible to them, no matter what.

To me, animals are here for their own value, not for my pleasure. Those are the values that I live by. :)

[Paulclem]

I think the real problem is that people don't kill animals. If everyone had to take a field trip to a slaughterhouse in the 10th grade and kill a pig or cow they might gain an appreciation of what it exactly is they eat out of the supermarket packages. They might not eat meat at every meal as though nothing gave its life that they may.

Killing things is the way of nature. I know that sounds like a weak arguement, but I don't see how someone who hunts is somehow less moral than one who does not. How many bugs die in the production of your vegetable food? Quite a few I'd reckon. To live is to kill, always has been, always will. The barbarity of the meat industry is not that it kills and does so prolifically. Its the horrid conditions in which it confines the animals, the disgusting way it treats them. Footage from inside a factory farm is enough to make anyone sick. A lot of people who work in them never eat meat again.

I know that sounds like a weak arguement, but I don't see how someone who hunts is somehow less moral than one who does not. How many bugs die in the production of your vegetable food?

The difference is in the intent to kill. Probably most of what we do ends up killing some insects, but the intention is not there. I think that is different to hunting or intending to kill for food.

The thing these days is that if you live in a rich western society, eating meat is a choice. It is very easy not to eat meat, and so I think the "natural to kill" argument is fallacious.

Having said that it's not for me or anyone to tell anyone else what to eat. There's a lot of culture and tradition bound up in food, and such a prohibition could easily be seen as an attack on the culture or the choice of the individual.

I agree about people going and seeing a slaughterhouse. It's something about taking personal responsibility. I used to work in one, but what surprised me was how the people who worked there were immune to the animals.

It brought it home to me one day when one of the slaughtermen cut the end of his thumb off and was walking down the slaughterhall with the blood spurting everywhere. A number of people thought this was terrible, but I was surprised as there was blood everywhere, and it was a fact of the place. I think it revealed that they didn't think of animals as living things in the same way as they saw humans.