Should the drinking age be lowered to 18?

[Quintus Ennius]

You can drive, vote, smoke, buy guns, have sex and hunt, but you can't drink. Why not?

[Paulclem]

Here in the UK it is 18. In reality kids often start younger. My wife started when she was 14. I looked two years younger than I was and began when I was 17 if my mates went to the bar. (I thought it would be a benefit - looking freshly youthful when I was a kid and pay me back in my forties, but alas not.)

Nowadays it's more difficult to drink younger as kids are often challenged to produce ID. Still there's always the off licence and the park for a bottle of cider.

[BienvenuJDC]

Because young people (even after the age of 21) have proven that they cannot (as a whole) act responsibly with the privilege of drinking. This can be seen by examining the behavior of the party schools. If you disagree with this, I will not try to argue the point. This does not say that one of a younger age cannot be a responsible drinker, nor does it mean that an older individual will be a responsible drinker. It is to say that the odds are greater that a more mature (in age) individual will act with more wisdom while partaking of alcohol (which without doubt) does affect one's behavior and ability to make sound decisions.

[LitNetIsGreat]

(To PaulC)

Yes. They do have the new "think 25" nonsense though. This means the person serving you must think that you are at least 25 before they will serve you, even though the legal age is 18. This has resulted in some strange requests. I was even asked for ID myself in the Tesco once two years ago when I was 31! Youthful good looks and all of that...

[Paulclem]

(To PaulC)

Yes. They do have the new "think 25" nonsense though. This means the person serving you must think that you are at least 25 before they will serve you, even though the legal age is 18. This has resulted in some strange requests. I was even asked for ID myself in the Tesco once two years ago when I was 31! Youthful good looks and all of that...

:lol:

Lucky you. I suddenly became wrinkled and wizened when I turned legal.

Neither of my kids drink - which has really surprised me, but not many of their friends do either. As a parent it's a relief, but I know I did often have a great time on a few drinks. On the other hand my son has managed to save up whilst being a student, and can do so many more things than I could ever have done on a grant. (Because I drank it all).

[Darcy88]

I'm kind of indifferent to this topic. I did my heaviest most frequent boozing years before I reached legal drinking age. Kids will drink irregardless of legality. There are not harsh penalties for underage drinking. Overall I'm fine either way.

[Scheherazade]

You can drive, vote, smoke, buy guns, have sex and hunt, but you can't drink. Why not?Probably because you might use those other rights you have listed in a less-than-wise fashion (or even abuse) if you happen to drink as well.

[Emil Miller]

Because young people (even after the age of 21) have proven that they cannot (as a whole) act responsibly with the privilege of drinking. This can be seen by examining the behavior of the party schools. If you disagree with this, I will not try to argue the point. This does not say that one of a younger age cannot be a responsible drinker, nor does it mean that an older individual will be a responsible drinker. It is to say that the odds are greater that a more mature (in age) individual will act with more wisdom while partaking of alcohol (which without doubt) does affect one's behavior and ability to make sound decisions.

The age of consent for alcohol in the USA is 21, whilst the legal age in the UK is 18. Drinking is a rite of passage similar to sex and is likely to remain so. You are correct that a younger drinker can act more responsibly than an older person. But there is another factor that favours the older drinker and that is an inurement to alcohol's effects. Over a long period of time, the body becomes used to a regular alcohol intake, which doesn't lessen the eventual toll health wise on the person concerned but does make it possible to drink more than is advisable medically, without any immediate health problems.

[Calidore]

Probably because you might use those other rights you have listed in a less-than-wise fashion (or even abuse) if you happen to drink as well.

Dang, Scheherazade, you beat me to it.

[Sancho Panza]

In the UK the age 18 limit on drinking only applies outside of the home. At home anybody over 5 can legally be given alcohol with parent/guardian permission. As far as I am aware, we are the only country to make such a differentiation.

The under fives can only be given alcohol at home if told to do so by a doctor, though I doubt many doctors would.

[JuniperWoolf]

Here in the UK it is 18. In reality kids often start younger.

Same here. *shrug* We're fine, the province hasn't exploded or anything.

[kiki1982]

Probably it's what Sche actually said... :D

I think I beat everyone to it when I say that I started on my first birthday, with a great big glass of Orval :biggrinjester:. I say, that was a jolly night! :coolgleamA: Nono, only one sip, but when I was eight I used to get portwine (my favourite) in a reduced quantity and every two weeks with my grandmother. Amounts gradually increased over time.

I have never been drunk apart from after one sip of wine when I was five (the pizza was too late). And I crashed into the tables and chairs of the terrace of the restaurant we were eating at... :eek: My grandfather was very angry. I have never been drunk since. Merry yes, but not drunk.

I think I drank my very first beer in a café (Kilkenny in the Irish pub in my home town) when I was about 16-17. In Belgium they don't really ask for ID as no-one cares... People don't get so drunk as in Britain though...

How one deals with drink is mainly down to family, I think. I personally never saw my parents drunk, nor my grandparents though they drank socially from time to time. I still see it pretty much as shameful to be drunk at all... I generally top after two glasses of wine as that is the boundary more or less...

I think a legal age is pretty dumb as they can get sloshed in the park.

[Lokasenna]

I'll admit that I do find the American age limit slightly weird, given all the other things you can do before the age of 21.

I think it could be safely lowered to 18, as it is here across the pond, and perhaps the added revenue could be used to fund progressive drink-awareness campaigns or something?

[Paulclem]

Probably it's what Sche actually said... :D

I think I beat everyone to it when I say that I started on my first birthday, with a great big glass of Orval :biggrinjester:. I say, that was a jolly night! :coolgleamA: Nono, only one sip, but when I was eight I used to get portwine (my favourite) in a reduced quantity and every two weeks with my grandmother. Amounts gradually increased over time.

I have never been drunk apart from after one sip of wine when I was five (the pizza was too late). And I crashed into the tables and chairs of the terrace of the restaurant we were eating at... :eek: My grandfather was very angry. I have never been drunk since. Merry yes, but not drunk.

I think I drank my very first beer in a café (Kilkenny in the Irish pub in my home town) when I was about 16-17. In Belgium they don't really ask for ID as no-one cares... People don't get so drunk as in Britain though...

How one deals with drink is mainly down to family, I think. I personally never saw my parents drunk, nor my grandparents though they drank socially from time to time. I still see it pretty much as shameful to be drunk at all... I generally top after two glasses of wine as that is the boundary more or less...

I think a legal age is pretty dumb as they can get sloshed in the park.

The continental attitude to drinking is much healthier than here in the UK, as evidenced by Friday and Saturday nights in City centres being invaded by hordes of drinkers young and older. I was one of these and had a good time, but it is very off putting for anyone not involved in the hard drnking culture.

In Europe it feels much more comfortable to be out and about in cities, as the cafe and restaurant culture is more predominant. It does start with the family teaching their kids how and when and what to drink, though in the end in the UK, peer pressure/ encouragement is what keeps young uns out in the pubs.

I think there are changes though. As I said earlier, my two don't drink, but also a lot of their mates don't. Here the traditional pubs are closing, and if you happen to pop in to one, depending upon where you are in a city, you'll often find that the people in there are of a certain age, propping up the bar and the brewery in effect. What do they offer these days? certainly kids are far more likely to want to have socials with their mates on some online activity or game.

[BienvenuJDC]

I'll admit that I do find the American age limit slightly weird, given all the other things you can do before the age of 21.

I think it could be safely lowered to 18, as it is here across the pond, and perhaps the added revenue could be used to fund progressive drink-awareness campaigns or something?

I think that most campaigns for awareness (at least around here) are fairly ineffective. As kiki explained, a healthy attitude toward drinking must be taught in the home by family (and must be displayed as well). Young people often drink to get drunk because that is their interpretation of fun. That is the attitude that I see in America.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Probably it's what Sche actually said... :D

I think I beat everyone to it when I say that I started on my first birthday, with a great big glass of Orval :biggrinjester:. I say, that was a jolly night! :coolgleamA: Nono, only one sip, but when I was eight I used to get portwine (my favourite) in a reduced quantity and every two weeks with my grandmother. Amounts gradually increased over time.

I have never been drunk apart from after one sip of wine when I was five (the pizza was too late). And I crashed into the tables and chairs of the terrace of the restaurant we were eating at... :eek: My grandfather was very angry. I have never been drunk since. Merry yes, but not drunk.

I think I drank my very first beer in a café (Kilkenny in the Irish pub in my home town) when I was about 16-17. In Belgium they don't really ask for ID as no-one cares... People don't get so drunk as in Britain though...

How one deals with drink is mainly down to family, I think. I personally never saw my parents drunk, nor my grandparents though they drank socially from time to time. I still see it pretty much as shameful to be drunk at all... I generally top after two glasses of wine as that is the boundary more or less...

I think a legal age is pretty dumb as they can get sloshed in the park.

Yes it is exactly that sensible continental attitude to drink which puts the UK to shame.

[OrphanPip]

Well if the Americans lowered it to 21 we wouldn't have to deal with the droves of college students that wander over the border from Vermont and New York every year.

[Scheherazade]

How one deals with drink is mainly down to family, I think. I personally never saw my parents drunk, nor my grandparents though they drank socially from time to time. I still see it pretty much as shameful to be drunk at all... I generally top after two glasses of wine as that is the boundary more or less...This is probably true for most cases; however, I have regular-drinker friends whose parents are teetotalers or vice versa.

Speaking from experience... My father was "the coctail dad".

Despite living in a tiny town, he would make sure to get ingredients from bigger cities to make coctails whenever they had guests and took pride in that. I had my first coctail when I was around 10, I believe... Something with very little alcohol in it but after that, I always had a coctail whenever my father made some for whomever. I am not sure if my parents' attitude has been the determining factor in determining my attitude towards alcohol but I have turned out to be a social-drinkers like them; I have never felt the need to drink enough to get drunk either even though I don't mind having a glass or two when with friends (and rarely when at home on my own).

When my father passed away, the only things I wanted to have were his coctail shaker (bought about 35 years ago), a set of coctail glasses (bought in 1975) and a 40-year-old, 30 cm ruler.

[BookBeauty]

I don't drink, except for a sip to taste someone else's. I get an idea of the flavour and I don't need much more than that-- I haven't found a drink I particularly like, and have never felt there was a reason to grow accustomed.

I do recognize the dangers of alcohol, and how it can damage families, and even kill people due to reckless behaviour, such as drunk driving.

I think that restriction on alcohol likely does more harm than good. Obviously you don't want to sell it to a child, or a teenager, but I don't think that it should be given the status its given, made to seem like the forbidden, exciting joyride of adulthood.

It should be seen as a beverage, and nothing more, or less.

Many parents are able to introduce alcohol to their children in this way, without overdoing it, and consequently they rarely grow up alcoholics.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

The age of consent for alcohol in the USA is 21, whilst the legal age in the UK is 18. Drinking is a rite of passage similar to sex and is likely to remain so. You are correct that a younger drinker can act more responsibly than an older person. But there is another factor that favours the older drinker and that is an inurement to alcohol's effects. Over a long period of time, the body becomes used to a regular alcohol intake, which doesn't lessen the eventual toll health wise on the person concerned but does make it possible to drink more than is advisable medically, without any immediate health problems.

So, what's it matter what age you start? It's going to take the same amount of time to build an immunity either way, no?

I think that, if anything, lowering the drinking age, even further than 18, would lower the amounts of teen drinking, I think a huge part of the allure is knowing that it is forbidden. Take away that edge, and I think a lot of teens wouldn't bother with it.

[LadyLuck]

Well if the Americans lowered it to 21 we wouldn't have to deal with the droves of college students that wander over the border from Vermont and New York every year.

The drinking age is 21? Or do you mean if they lowered it from 21 down to 18? I personally think it should be lower, and not so a bunch of frat and sorority kids can go out for a night of carousing. I think if it were 16-18 then most kids would be able to be taught to drink responsibly from a younger age. Take away the mystery and the forbidden factor of drinking at 19, and you would have far less issues I think.

[Darcy88]

I think part of the reason behind adolescent binge-drinking is a desire on the youth's part to feel like an adult, do what adults do, and so on. But people of all ages drink irresponsibly. At the bar its often people in their 30s standing at the bar ordering another drink though they're barely able to stand or form coherent sentences. 21 in the states seems too high. 18 is a more suitable age. Come to think of it, just why is it so high in America?

[OrphanPip]

The drinking age is 21? Or do you mean if they lowered it from 21 down to 18? I personally think it should be lower, and not so a bunch of frat and sorority kids can go out for a night of carousing. I think if it were 16-18 then most kids would be able to be taught to drink responsibly from a younger age. Take away the mystery and the forbidden factor of drinking at 19, and you would have far less issues I think.

I meant to say lowered it "from" 21. Montreal has long made a business out of selling booze to Americans, from the Bronfman family that became billionaires from the Seagram company to the **** tourist bars on Crescent street.

[LadyLuck]

I meant to say lowered it "from" 21. Montreal has long made a business out of selling booze to Americans, from the Bronfman family that became billionaires from the Seagram company to the **** tourist bars on Crescent street.

I figured that was what you meant :) I would be lying if I said I didn't hop the border a few times when I lived near Seattle just to go have a few drinks out that weekend.

[BienvenuJDC]

This may not surprise anyone, but I never had seen alcohol as some mysterious thing with which to experiment. I've never drank, never been drunk, never had the desire. I don't understand why kids these days are so enamored with the idea of getting totally smashed.

[Scheherazade]

I wonder if this theory of "take away the edge" would work on other illegal issues as well... Can drug use, robberies, murder, rape, embezzlement be prevented in this manner?

I wonder why it does not work with smoking as it is not illegal to smoke in most countries (the act itself).

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I wonder if this theory of "take away the edge" would work on other illegal issues as well... Can drug use, robberies, murder, rape, embezzlement be prevented in this manner?

I wonder why it does not work with smoking as it is not illegal to smoke in most countries (the act itself).

Well, I think it comes down to a matter of motivation. I think what motivates, are at least it plays a part in motivation, kids to do drugs or drink illegally is the thrill of breaking the rules, but I'm not sure about other crimes. Robbery? Maybe, but I'd assume there are other motivations for that, such as simply needing/wanting more money/stuff. Murder is usually either a crime of passion or something born out of hatred--very rarely does someone kill for the thrill of it. Rape is a crime used to dominate someone--maybe some thrill is involved. Embezzlement is ust greed.

Plus, all those other crimes have clear and identifiable victims. Contrary to what some may think, the majority of kids don't want to harm people, and drugs are often seen as a victimless crime. So they get the edge of doing something dangerous, but it's not going to weigh on their conscience like robbing/raping/murdering someone would.

[LadyLuck]

I wonder if this theory of "take away the edge" would work on other illegal issues as well... Can drug use, robberies, murder, rape, embezzlement be prevented in this manner?

I wonder why it does not work with smoking as it is not illegal to smoke in most countries (the act itself).

I think crimes of personal indulgence can likely be remedied in this manner. Rape, murder, and robberies... not so much would think. Society can't very well tell me that it is ok to kill people until I've had my fill. Then again, you never know :D If someone told me to embezzle money till I had enough, I may be tempted :lol:

[LitNetIsGreat]

I've never understood why the legal drinking age is 21 in America. I've always thought it a little strange (along with the gun thing). The vast majority of countries 18 (or lower) is the legal age limit. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html
(Where's Italy?)

I don't really agree with the thrill of breaking the law argument though, as I have said before elsewhere. I put poor relationships with alcohol as mainly a cultural issue (as highlighted above a few places).

Should it be lowered to 18 in the US? I don't know, it's not something that really concerns me. Are there any plans to do so? I suppose the government would be worried about givng the green light to further alcohol problems. I imagine it is difficult to lowe a limit once it is firmly set in place. Lowering the limit to 16 in the UK would not be a good idea. Still, at least I would be then more or less guaranteed to get served in Tesco.

[Cunninglinguist]

The drinking age in America is 21 because M.A.D.D. (mothers against drunk driving) lobbied for it a while back. I'm not sure what the exact arguments were, other than the generic ones, but I'm sure they were all about as rational as their "if you don't sign this you'll burn in hell" petitions. In any case, the number of alcohol-related deaths in America have drastically decreased over the years while alcohol-related deaths in the UK have drastically increased. Maybe they're on to something.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

M.A.D.D. is one of those perfectly apt acronyms.