Self-Mutilation as form of body modification/meditation.

[Revolte]

Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting?

Personally I find the same calming I get from being pierced or tattooed in self-mutilation (Yes I seldom cut as well as burn and other forms of self inflicted damage). As well as I have long pondered and even taken part in using scars as artwork on my body. And while I detest violence of any form in any situation outside of a dire need of survival, I do believe that some of the "issues" I have in which I refuse mainstream treatments would likely escalate into full fledged suicide or outward violent acts (as has happened in my past) if it where not for physical "releases" (be it tattoos, cigarette burns or anything in-between).

[BienvenuJDC]

I personally would not consider all tattoos and/or piercings to be self-mutilation. I think for it to be self-mutilation would depend heavily on the intent, manner, and method.

[Revolte]

I personally would not consider all tattoos and/or piercings to be self-mutilation. I think for it to be self-mutilation would depend heavily on the intent, manner, and method.

Well the topic isn't really about tattoos, it's about stereotypical self-mutilation. Like cutting.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Self-mutilation is absurd. Excluding serious mental issues, there can be no justification for cutting/burning/scaring/chopping off a finger at all. The mere thought of it is very repulsive to me, especially as it has just taken three weeks to get rid of a serious infection I got from a small cut while shaving, not fun. So no, it's not healthy or meditative in any way.

[Alexander III]

Call it what you want, it is just masochism. You get pleasure from hurting yourself, thats fine and dandy. It's not a lifestyle choice, you are born with it, some people are born sadistic and masochistic and enjoy all the leather and chains with the sex.

[Emil Miller]

Call it what you want, it is just masochism. You get pleasure from hurting yourself, thats fine and dandy. It's not a lifestyle choice, you are born with it, some people are born sadistic and masochistic and enjoy all the leather and chains with the sex.

The only time I was wearing leather during sexual congress was when I forgot to take my wristwatch off.

[Calidore]

Call it what you want, it is just masochism. You get pleasure from hurting yourself, thats fine and dandy. It's not a lifestyle choice, you are born with it, some people are born sadistic and masochistic and enjoy all the leather and chains with the sex.

Except self-mutilation isn't just about hurting yourself, but damaging yourself.

[Delta40]

Self-mutilation is addictive and releases endorphins each time you do it. It becomes a coping mechanism to deal with pressures, stresses, pent up feelings rather that dealing with them in a more conventional sense and this is particularly worrisome for younger people who may not have even developed the skills to deal with them and find that self-harm among alot of their friends is the norm. There are alternative self-harm practices which you can inflict upon yourself without incurring serious damage or lifelong scars.

Having had a daughter who cut herself to shreds in her teens, I see nothing healthy about it.

[Buh4Bee]

Whichever way, I think most "research", medical experts, and even alternative thinks would consider self-mutilation an unhealthy way to cope with anxiety. When you think about this in practical terms, there can be general health reasons and social reasons that would make one consider this type of behavior unhealthy. But then again, if the behavior doesn't have an adverse affect on one's life...

[Buh4Bee]

But having read what Delta wrote, makes much more sense than what I posted. It just makes more sense in terms of dealing with life in a productive way.

[Alexander III]

Except self-mutilation isn't just about hurting yourself, but damaging yourself.

What, extinguishing a cigarrete on your forearm, cutting yourself a bit - thats not serious damage, that is just having fun with ones masochistic pleasure tendencies.

I have know a couple guys who do this stuff, they are harmless people, what they do is mostly harmless, and it gives them pleasure, so I don't see much wrong with it.

People who really want to damage themselves have problems - people who use little knives to cut themselves or burn themselves a bit, don't have real problems, they just do it because it gives them some pleasure, maybe because they think it is a big act of rebellion and they get off on tat, or maybe the action itslef gives them pleasure.

Self-mutilation is more extreem, like a man chopping off his dick.

[LitNetIsGreat]

What, extinguishing a cigarrete on your forearm, cutting yourself a bit - thats not serious damage, that is just having fun with ones masochistic pleasure tendencies.

Having fun by "cutting yourself a bit" have people gone completely insane or is it just me?

[BookBeauty]

Pain can cause adrenaline, and even endorphins to release in the brain in order to counter it. It is biologically natural.

When a cat is playing with a mouse, it is actually a 'merciful' act. The mouse is so filled with adrenaline and endorphins, its death is painless.

Humans mutilating, and/or inflicting pain upon themselves in order to cope with stress (I use the word 'stress' rather flexibly), is not biologically natural, and in a more psychological sense, I think it is harmful.

Tattoos and body modifications on their own are artistic and even poetic.

But, inflicting pain upon oneself is a temporary relief for individuals at best and, I think at least, an indicator of a deep-seated issue that needs a healthier, more long term resolution.

[Emil Miller]

Having fun by "cutting yourself a bit" have people gone completely insane or is it just me?

No it's not you, it's people have gone completely insane. They start off in a small way and finish up doing this.

http://youtu.be/-SefD84fbEE

[LitNetIsGreat]

No it's not you, it's people have gone completely insane. They start off in a small way and finish up doing this.

http://youtu.be/-SefD84fbEE

:lol: That's a big saw.

[Revolte]

People who really want to damage themselves have problems - people who use little knives to cut themselves or burn themselves a bit, don't have real problems, they just do it because it gives them some pleasure, maybe because they think it is a big act of rebellion and they get off on tat, or maybe the action itslef gives them pleasure.



Tattoos give me sexual satisfaction, cutting doesn't but I also have a very high tolerance for pain and it doesn't actually hurt. Burning doesn't hurt either it feels good, but it's not sexual, well sometimes like with hot wax but that's different.

[Emil Miller]

Tattoos give me
Burning doesn't hurt either it feels good, but it's not sexual, well sometimes like with hot wax but that's different.

You might consider one of these:


http://youtu.be/U1TmeBd9338

[Buh4Bee]

That wasn't what was originally posted. I think people were trying to have a sense of humor. Taking things too seriously.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

So someone gets off on masochism. It doesn't hurt you, does it? So, what's it matter? I couldn't care less what others do.

These threads are getting so predictable. There're always the same people being rightoues and judgmental. It must be tiring.

[LitNetIsGreat]

So someone gets off on masochism. It doesn't hurt you, does it? So, what's it matter? I couldn't care less what others do.

These threads are getting so predictable. There're always the same people being rightoues and judgmental. It must be tiring.

I agree. It is tiring and ridiculous. It is always the same thing, somebody makes some ridiculous statement like "having fun by burning yourself" and then somebody points out the complete nonsense of it and is accused of being an intolerant raving Neo-Conservative. Strange. Can't wait for the thread on "Pedophilia, it's Just a Big Laugh" - should be good.

[Calidore]

FWIW, the OP was specifically asking for opinions, not just making a statement.

[Emil Miller]

I agree. It is tiring and ridiculous. It is always the same thing, somebody makes some ridiculous statement like "having fun by burning yourself" and then somebody points out the complete nonsense of it and is accused of being an intolerant raving Neo-Conservative. Strange. Can't wait for the thread on "Pedophilia, it's Just a Big Laugh" - should be good.

You're are being irrational here Neely. After all, if paedophiles rape children other than your own, why should you care what other people do, it doesn't hurt you does it? You shouldn't care less what others do.

I know I shouldn't take the p**s, because it's all too easy, but it's difficult to resist. :lol:

[smerdyakov]

I'm in the Neo-Con camp on this one :)
In response to the OP: if you detest violence, why should you be worried about violent acts manifesting themselves? I believe self harming/mutilation to be a totally aberrant activity. It is also a totally counter productive activity/stress outlet as you need your body to be functioning properly (am i not stating the complete bleedin obvious here!) re the general day to day stuff vis a vis survival and other quite important stuff I would have thought, no?

I read about healthy people having healthy limbs amputated for no other reason than having the desire to be an amputee. It's called Apotemnophilia and there is apparently some pathological excuse for this desire, but there's just no way that stuff should happen. How surgeons can be allowed to perform these operations is just beyond me, really. It just staggers me, honestly, how people can do this to themselves.

[Darcy88]

I never understood cutting. I was an angsty depressive adolescent and I never once felt the urge to cut. Maybe its the endorphin release? Or a cry for help perhaps?

[Delta40]

A healthy balanced teen doesn't slice her arms, breasts and inner thighs with a razor blade over and over again.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

You're are being irrational here Neely. After all, if paedophiles rape children other than your own, why should you care what other people do, it doesn't hurt you does it? You shouldn't care less what others do.

I agree. It is tiring and ridiculous. It is always the same thing, somebody makes some ridiculous statement like "having fun by burning yourself" and then somebody points out the complete nonsense of it and is accused of being an intolerant raving Neo-Conservative. Strange. Can't wait for the thread on "Pedophilia, it's Just a Big Laugh" - should be good.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FOIrYyQawGI/TC0thVs0DoI/AAAAAAAAC3w/AfRWy2zTqPo/s1600/StrawMan.jpg

[Darcy88]

If it provides some sort of release to those experiencing severe psychological stress then I don't see a problem with it. Better that than releasing it all in a single potentially fatal burst.

[Delta40]

If it provides some sort of release to those experiencing severe psychological stress then I don't see a problem with it. Better that than releasing it all in a single potentially fatal burst.

Assuming that self-harm is a managment tool to avoid a fatal burst from occurring, then I would at least imagine it would be taken in prescribed doses, like a medication for example. On that premise I believe to take too much of any medication could result in a fatality.

My daughter increased the intensity of her practice over her body and the kind of wounds she inflicted because what she started out doing wasn't enough to give her the release she was looking for. In other words, she was overdosing on her 'medication'. Not fatal and according to your statement, not a problem, despite the increased disfigurement and injuries to her body.

To shrug my shoulders and say 'Well at least she isn't going to do something irresponsible as long as she continues to carve her body up with a razor blade' means I should be admitted to a psyh unit!

[Darcy88]

Assuming that self-harm is a managment tool to avoid a fatal burst from occurring, then I would at least imagine it would be taken in prescribed doses, like a medication for example. On that premise I believe to take too much of any medication could result in a fatality.

My daughter increased the intensity of her practice over her body and the kind of wounds she inflicted because what she started out doing wasn't enough to give her the release she was looking for. In other words, she was overdosing on her 'medication'. Not fatal and according to your statement, not a problem, despite the increased disfigurement and injuries to her body.

To shrug my shoulders and say 'Well at least she isn't going to do something irresponsible as long as she continues to carve her body up with a razor blade' means I should be admitted to a psyh unit!

All the people I've met who cut themselves never inflicted any significant harm. I'm sure there are some extreme cases where the habit goes too far, but in most instances it isn't much of a problem. Its the issues that lead to it which should be of concern. It was pretty obvious I was not referring to such extreme cases in my original post.

[Delta40]

That's a fair reply Darcy so would the cutting you see other people inflict upon themselves where no significant harm be ok if it is one of your children?

(I must question the definition of significant harm since my daughter, apart from being covered in old scars, isn't really harmed is she?)

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Just to clarify my earlier assertions: I do not think it's good or healthy for a person to use self-mutilation as a coping mechanism for depression. Other than the obvious possible results of real harm (even if it's a staff infection from a small cut) it just doesn't seem like it's in any way healthy. It's just a gut feeling.

What I don't have a problem with is masochism used to derive pleasure rather than to alleviate emotional pain. I'm talking about the guys who go to dominatrixes to get whipped and have hot wax poured on them. If that's what they get off on, more power to 'em. I don't see any harm in that.

As far as people wanting to amputate themselves, there something wrong there . . . but whether or not someone should be able to do it is a more complicated matter--probably moreso than any of us are intelligent enough to understand.

What about this guy:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_R51-i3_O-RM/SgFO7Pba72I/AAAAAAAAbhE/YE9759Zprv4/s400/26_unnecessary_body_modifications_20090503_1700515 549.jpeg

Should that be allowed?

[Darcy88]

That's a fair reply Darcy so would the cutting you see other people inflict upon themselves where no significant harm be ok if it is one of your children?

(I must question the definition of significant harm since my daughter, apart from being covered in old scars, isn't really harmed is she?)

I guess it was stupid to say it wasn't a problem since its an obvious sign that there in fact is a problem. I've just known a number of people who suffered from depression and cut themselves but were otherwise normal, and so I don't class cutting along with drug abuse, purging, suicidal attempts, violence on others, dropping out of school, unsafe sex, or the plethora of other things that in themselves amount to serious and significant problems. Your daughter is an extreme case and can't stand as an example of all those who cut themselves. Her case shows me that cutting is not as light a matter as I thought and that it can in some instances be in and of itself a serious problem, but in a lot of cases its a surface symptom of a deep underlying issue, and I think that issue and not the cutting itself should be of most pressing concern.

[Delta40]

It's funny. Depression is a diagnosed mental health condition and I would expect that among young people cutting along with drug abuse, purging, suicidal attempts, violence on others, dropping out of school, unsafe sex, or the plethora of other things to be symptoms of depression or another condition.

I know kids that suicided in their teens. It's worth noting that their paths all involved self harm and so I guess my final point on this thread is that no level of self harm can be considered insignificant.

Thanks for listening to the subjective view of a Mother.

[JuniperWoolf]

There're always the same people being rightoues and judgmental.

I don't think that Neely is self-righteous or judgemental, I think he's just sheltered. How could you not have come to terms with the existance of masochism? No one cares anymore if people get sexual gratification through cutting themselves or their willing partners, as long as they aren't running around cutting other people without permission.


I never understood cutting. I was an angsty depressive adolescent and I never once felt the urge to cut. Maybe its the endorphin release? Or a cry for help perhaps?

I never got the depression aspect of it either. I was a depressed kid too, and it would never even have occured to me that "hey, maybe if I make a hole in myself I'll feel better."

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

^I guess I'll throw my hat in there as well. I suffered from depression in high school, and not once did I want to inflict pain onto myself. I guess my case is a little different . . . it's not like I had to inflict any injury upon myself. Still, I've never taken pleasure from pain, whether I've been depressed or not. Sometimes I find a *little* pain pleasurable, such as when I have an itch, but scratching it hurts as well as feels good. Generally speaking, though, pain is something I take every possible avenue not to experience.

[Alexander III]

I agree. It is tiring and ridiculous. It is always the same thing, somebody makes some ridiculous statement like "having fun by burning yourself" and then somebody points out the complete nonsense of it and is accused of being an intolerant raving Neo-Conservative. Strange. Can't wait for the thread on "Pedophilia, it's Just a Big Laugh" - should be good.

You have fun by going to a wooden building in your town, where all the men go, and all of you drink pints of poison, sometimes so much poison that you feel sick and can't controll yourself. The morning after your body bluntly lets you know don't do this again. But the next weekend you are sill down in that wooden building spending money on poison and drinking it and being sick....

The accusation is not intolerance, it is hypocrisy.

[Alexander III]

Should that be allowed?

What happened to the whole American, " this is a free country" spirit. Is that all just empty rethoric, or do you actual believe what you say?

[LitNetIsGreat]

You have fun by going to a wooden building in your town, where all the men go, and all of you drink pints of poison, sometimes so much poison that you feel sick and can't controll yourself. The morning after your body bluntly lets you know don't do this again. But the next weekend you are sill down in that wooden building spending money on poison and drinking it and being sick....

The accusation is not intolerance, it is hypocrisy.

Yes because having a few quiet pints is obviously the same thing as slashing yourself with a razor blade or putting knives through your nose! What a hypocrite I am!

[Emil Miller]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FOIrYyQawGI/TC0thVs0DoI/AAAAAAAAC3w/AfRWy2zTqPo/s1600/StrawMan.jpg

:lol:

That guy needs a haircut.

[Emil Miller]

You have fun by going to a wooden building in your town, where all the men go, and all of you drink pints of poison, sometimes so much poison that you feel sick and can't controll yourself. The morning after your body bluntly lets you know don't do this again. But the next weekend you are sill down in that wooden building spending money on poison and drinking it and being sick....

Have you been drinking poteen in your garden shed again Neely?

[LitNetIsGreat]

Have you been drinking poteen in your garden shed again Neely?

:lol: Yes it's a little club I've got going again. It's a tight squeeze in there with three bikes and a lawn mower though, but we keep going back for more.

[Emil Miller]

:lol: Yes it's a little club I've got going again. It's a tight squeeze in there with three bikes and a lawn mower though, but we keep going back for more.

Well it was either that or a quiet night at Witherspoons.

[Calidore]

This thread has been interesting reading. I like to consider myself pretty liberal and freedom-loving, but the ridiculous extremes some folks will go to justify baldly harmful behavior in the name of "I'm okay, you're okay, we're all okay" is unbelievable. Endorphins? Give me a break. Endorphins help you cope with pain and help alleviate depression, but they don't eliminate either. You can go out in the sun for much the same effect. The pain is the point, and to inflict pain and damage on oneself in response to stress or unhappiness is not natural, and it's not right.

In the case of adults, you can't do much except express concern and suggest alternatives or points of help. Children, however, are a different story. Any animal hearing a cry for help from its child will rush to its aid. To rationalize ignoring a cry for help and allowing a child to harm him/herself is to violate a basic law of nature. Parents who are ruled by that level of cowardice have no business being parents.

[Paulclem]

What people do to their own bodies is really quite up to them, as is their sexual preferences, so long as they are not inflicting it on unwilling people.

What is clear is that the wish to declare/ discuss/ exhibit such predispositions is another form of egotism. The chap with the knife nostrils is just saying look at me. Tattoos, piercings, self mutilation, (except that associated with mental health issues), - so what? It's been done before in tribes, and.

http://dontstandtheregawping.blogspot.com/2009/04/piercing.html

http://www.matses.info/photos/Matses-008-Piercings.html

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE]What is clear is that the wish to declare/ discuss/ exhibit such predispositions is another form of egotism. The chap with the knife nostrils is just saying look at me. Tattoos, piercings, self mutilation, (except that associated with mental health issues), - so what?

Got it in one, except that many people find showing off to be childish and demeaning. The 'look at me' attitude is said to be 'making a statement.' But when the statement is' 'Look what an attention seeking exhibitionist I am,' others are bound to draw their own conclusions no matter what the exhibitionists would like them to think.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

What happened to the whole American, " this is a free country" spirit. Is that all just empty rethoric, or do you actual believe what you say?
I was bringing it up as a point of discussion Alex. I'd you read my post, NO WHERE do I claim it should or should not be allowed. You have a habit of jumping to conclusions. You need to work on that.

And, I do believe that numbskull has every right to do what he likes, as do any of the weirdoes that pop up when you do a Google image search of "body modification."

[KCurtis]

You're are being irrational here Neely. After all, if paedophiles rape children other than your own, why should you care what other people do, it doesn't hurt you does it? You shouldn't care less what others do.

I know I shouldn't take the p**s, because it's all too easy, but it's difficult to resist. :lol:


I agree. It is tiring and ridiculous. It is always the same thing, somebody makes some ridiculous statement like "having fun by burning yourself" and then somebody points out the complete nonsense of it and is accused of being an intolerant raving Neo-Conservative. Strange. Can't wait for the thread on "Pedophilia, it's Just a Big Laugh" - should be good.



I read about healthy people having healthy limbs amputated for no other reason than having the desire to be an amputee. It's called Apotemnophilia and there is apparently some pathological excuse for this desire, but there's just no way that stuff should happen. How surgeons can be allowed to perform these operations is just beyond me, really. It just staggers me, honestly, how people can do this to themselves.


I don't think that Neely is self-righteous or judgemental, I think he's just sheltered. How could you not have come to terms with the existance of masochism? No one cares anymore if people get sexual gratification through cutting themselves or their willing partners, as long as they aren't running around cutting other people without permission.



I never got the depression aspect of it either. I was a depressed kid too, and it would never even have occured to me that "hey, maybe if I make a hole in myself I'll feel better."

I'm sorry, but I am ROTFL here. I can't help it, if you look closely at these posts you will probably find the humor too, or maybe I am "off" a bit. And, btw, surgeons, at least in my country, don't cut off limbs for no apparent reason.
JuniperWolf, I don't know if you realize how funny you are. I love your "as longs as they aren't running around cutting other people without permission".
:lol:

[JuniperWoolf]

Yes because having a few quiet pints is obviously the same thing as slashing yourself with a razor blade or putting knives through your nose! What a hypocrite I am!

You're right, they aren't the same: the difference between damaging your internal organs with poison and damaging your external organ with a controlled (not suicide intended!) blade is that damaging your internal organs is more more likely to kill you. Their skin can take it, it's much better at healing itself than your liver (although your liver is very good at healing itself too, just not as good as skin - this is what skin was built for, before our kushy post-industrial lifestyle we evolved in situations under which we were opened up daily).

Really I don't care what you say one way or the other (and I'll tell you why in a minute), but you really should simply tolerate the existance of sadomasochism and I still can't believe that you haven't come to that conclusion on your own. It should be obvious that you'll never change anyone's sexual tendancies to suit you, you'll just make people think less of you because they feel that you're looking down on others when it's clearly not your right to do so. You're not affecting the behaviour of the people you scoff at in the slightest, you're only making people feel sympathetic towards masochists for having to deal with such closed-mindedness in the first place (which is exactly why I don't care if you're closed minded - you're simply helping the people you're trying to repress). You're also just managing to cause yourself grief by getting worked up over the consentual acts of adults which is entirely permitted and really has nothing at all to do with you. Expressing contempt is, in this case, illogical and entirely useless behaviour, not to mention counter-productive as it is only likely to bring contempt onto you for the whole "I know best" routine (and this has already been demonstrated by other posters on this thread, excluding Emil who I think would agree with just about anything to take a few cheap shots at the people he doesn't like).


JuniperWolf, I don't know if you realize how funny you are. I love your "as longs as they aren't running around cutting other people without permission".
:lol:

:D *takes bow*

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I don't think all piercings, tattoos, and other forms of body modification can just be chalked up to a "look at me attitude." They're just another form of self-expression, and tattoos can be quite beautiful and artistic. If tattoos and piercing are just a way to grab attention and nothing more, I guess pretty much all art is.

And, what's it matter if it's been done before? Since when has that been a valid reason not to do something?

[LitNetIsGreat]

Originally Posted by Neely
Yes because having a few quiet pints is obviously the same thing as slashing yourself with a razor blade or putting knives through your nose! What a hypocrite I am!



You're right, they aren't the same: the difference between damaging your internal organs with poison and damaging your external organ with a controlled (not suicide intended!) blade is that damaging your internal organs is more more likely to kill you. Their skin can take it, it's much better at healing itself than your liver (although your liver is very good at healing itself too, just not as good as skin - this is what skin was built for, before our kushy post-industrial lifestyle we evolved in situations under which we were opened up daily).

Really I don't care what you say one way or the other (and I'll tell you why in a minute), but you really should simply tolerate the existance of sadomasochism and I still can't believe that you haven't come to that conclusion on your own. It should be obvious that you'll never change anyone's sexual tendancies to suit you, you'll just make people think less of you because they feel that you're looking down on others when it's clearly not your right to do so. You're not affecting the behaviour of the people you scoff at in the slightest, you're only making people feel sympathetic towards masochists for having to deal with such closed-mindedness in the first place (which is exactly why I don't care if you're closed minded - you're simply helping the people you're trying to repress). You're also just managing to cause yourself grief by getting worked up over the consentual acts of adults which is entirely permitted and really has nothing at all to do with you. Expressing contempt is, in this case, illogical and entirely useless behaviour, not to mention counter-productive as it is only likely to bring contempt onto you for the whole "I know best" routine (and this has already been demonstrated by other posters on this thread, excluding Emil who I think would agree with just about anything to take a few cheap shots at the people he doesn't like).

:lurk5::lol:Oh my lord, I don’t know where to start here, it’s really unbelievable! The best bits, in my opinion are:

1 The use of the word “controlled” as in controlled slashing yourself with a razor blade, or controlled burnings etc, brilliant.

2 The parenthesis including the exclamation mark in “(not suicide intended!) super.

3
“You should simply tolerate the existence of sadomasochism” Again brilliant, I never thought anyone would say that to me – not a sentence you come across in day-to-day life, I'll not unpack that one, leave it as it is.

4 The mere implication that opening your skin with razors is the preferred option over having a pint or two of beer or a bottle of wine. Crazy.

5 Another good parenthesis in “(and I’ll tell you why in a minute)” this adds tension!

6 Incredulity that I haven’t come to the same conclusion as you – why on earth would I, I don’t know?

7
“It should be obvious that you’ll never change anyone’s sexual tendancies…” What the hell? Who said anything about that, ever?

8
Looking down on others.

I’m not looking down on anyone, I’m merely pointing out that it is a crackpot thing to do, that’s all, giving my opinion as the OP asked – or should I lie and say “yes it might be meditative, I might take it up, pass me the Stanley knife?” I’m giving my opinion which I’m pretty sure in this case is the mainstream voice anyway, not an usual opinion that is.

9
“You're only making people feel sympathetic towards masochists for having to deal with such closed-mindedness…”

Brilliant. But I don’t care, I’m giving my, obviously strange, opinion that slashing yourself with razors is not really a good idea!

10 Causing myself grief by getting worked up.

I appreciate that you are worried about my health and thank you for that, but I am not getting worked up at all – this is classic stuff!

11
“Expressing contempt is, in this case, illogical and entirely useless behaviour…”

Just giving my opinion, I’m not trying to “convert” people into not slashing open themselves, I’m just giving my opinion.

12 The "I know best" routine.

Well, maybe I’m wrong then in this case, maybe we should encourage people to slice holes in themselves or to rip out their eyes, or whatever it is you’re supporting this time? Crazy.

Also, you wouldn't be so quick to support skin slicing if you got an infection from it, I can tell you. Having just recovered from an infection I got while shaving the whole experience has not been fun, I've been ill on and off for a month. I can't remember feeling as badly in my life. I suppose you would argue that "cutters" take precautions and carry TCP around with them or something. Really, it's all just too silly for words!

[stlukesguild]

Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).:smilewinkgrin:

While Neely is probably as liberal as I in our beliefs with regard to allowing others to live their lives as they wish (as long as their behavior doesn't impinge on the rights of others) he does have certain responsibilities as a teacher to report behavior such as self-mutilation and threats of suicide. But then again... I suppose as suicide doesn't impinge of the rights of anyone else we shouldn't be the least concerned about that either. Live and let die.

There are cultural traditions involving what others might term "self mutilation" or "body alteration". These certainly include tattoos, scarification, piercings, etc... These are different from slicing one's wrist with a razor and any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behavior which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies.

The comparison of pathological behaviors with having a pint of two of beer is beyond all rational thinking. It belongs in the world of idealized fantasy and not the real world in which most of us live. Certainly, extreme alcoholism or drug abuse are just as self-destructive... and as a result society makes attempts to counter these behaviors... largely because it is recognized that such self destructive behavior hurts others... and even society as a whole ($$$). But I suppose that is irrelevant when you live in a third-world cattle town. Then I guess live and let die is the mottoe embraced by all... not Donne's

No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

[Alexander III]

Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).:smilewinkgrin:

While Neely is probably as liberal as I in our beliefs with regard to allowing others to live their lives as they wish (as long as their behavior doesn't impinge on the rights of others) he does have certain responsibilities as a teacher to report behavior such as self-mutilation and threats of suicide. But then again... I suppose as suicide doesn't impinge of the rights of anyone else we shouldn't be the least concerned about that either. Live and let die.

There are cultural traditions involving what others might term "self mutilation" or "body alteration". These certainly include tattoos, scarification, piercings, etc... These are different from slicing one's wrist with a razor and any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behavior which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies.

The comparison of pathological behaviors with having a pint of two of beer is beyond all rational thinking. It belongs in the world of idealized fantasy and not the real world in which most of us live. Certainly, extreme alcoholism or drug abuse are just as self-destructive... and as a result society makes attempts to counter these behaviors... largely because it is recognized that such self destructive behavior hurts others... and even society as a whole ($$$). But I suppose that is irrelevant when you live in a third-world cattle town. Then I guess live and let die is the mottoe embraced by all... not Donne's

No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

Because you naturaly know what is better for a person than themselves, and their body is not their own afterall, it belongs to society, to the nation. It is not their body, it is societies - so society must protect it assests and create strict regulations to protect people from themselves. Because people are stupid...except the people who make the rules, they are clever. Always.

[OrphanPip]

I don't think it is appropriate to conflate sadomasochism and self-harm, as has been done throughout this thread.

Self-harm is done as a form of coping by people suffering from anxiety disorders or depression, it is not something they "enjoy" but is a compulsive behaviour most of them would rather not engage in. It is usually a hidden behaviour accompanied by issues of shame and the underlining causes of whatever produces the desire to self-harm.

S&M as a sexual practice is completely different, it tends to be a social activity. It is engaged in with the precise intent of producing some sort of sexual arousal. It rarely involves something like cutting. Moreover, it is usually practised in a controlled environment between consenting adults. S&M is not considered to be a sign of any mental health issues, and minor forms of it tend to permeate throughout a lot of people's sexual habits and play.

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE]Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).:smilewinkgrin:

Also in some parts of the US it would seem.:biggrin5:


http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4531/paline.jpg

[Delta40]

I don't think it is appropriate to conflate sadomasochism and self-harm, as has been done throughout this thread.

Self-harm is done as a form of coping by people suffering from anxiety disorders or depression, it is not something they "enjoy" but is a compulsive behaviour most of them would rather not engage in. It is usually a hidden behaviour accompanied by issues of shame and the underlining causes of whatever produces the desire to self-harm.

S&M as a sexual practice is completely different, it tends to be a social activity. It is engaged in with the precise intent of producing some sort of sexual arousal. It rarely involves something like cutting. Moreover, it is usually practised in a controlled environment between consenting adults. S&M is not considered to be a sign of any mental health issues, and minor forms of it tend to permeate throughout a lot of people's sexual habits and play.

:iagree: Thanks for making the distinction Pip.

[KCurtis]

Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).


I don't think grizzly bears get rabies.
:grouphug:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Because you naturaly know what is better for a person than themselves, and their body is not their own afterall, it belongs to society, to the nation. It is not their body, it is societies - so society must protect it assests and create strict regulations to protect people from themselves. Because people are stupid...except the people who make the rules, they are clever. Always.
I guess I'll have to find that picture of a big straw man again. . . .

I don't think it is appropriate to conflate sadomasochism and self-harm, as has been done throughout this thread.

Self-harm is done as a form of coping by people suffering from anxiety disorders or depression, it is not something they "enjoy" but is a compulsive behaviour most of them would rather not engage in. It is usually a hidden behaviour accompanied by issues of shame and the underlining causes of whatever produces the desire to self-harm.

S&M as a sexual practice is completely different, it tends to be a social activity. It is engaged in with the precise intent of producing some sort of sexual arousal. It rarely involves something like cutting. Moreover, it is usually practised in a controlled environment between consenting adults. S&M is not considered to be a sign of any mental health issues, and minor forms of it tend to permeate throughout a lot of people's sexual habits and play.
THANK YOU. I thought I've made that clear, but I guess I haven't. People aren't making distinctions about what they're talking about. I. Sorry, but if anyone really thinks that cutting oneself is an okay coping technique for dealing with depression or other psychological issues . . . sorry, I don't see how anyone could find that logical.

As to S&M, who cares?

[LitNetIsGreat]

I guess I'll have to find that picture of a big straw man again. . . .

THANK YOU. I thought I've made that clear, but I guess I haven't. People aren't making distinctions about what they're talking about. I. Sorry, but if anyone really thinks that cutting oneself is an okay coping technique for dealing with depression or other psychological issues . . . sorry, I don't see how anyone could find that logical.

As to S&M, who cares?

Well these are the questions at the thread starter, which is what I was originally responding to:


Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting?

No mention of sex incidentally. I'm not saying that you should only stick to the OP, as conversation is not like that, and I'm the worst culprit for going off topic, but this is what I originally responded to regardless. Should self-mutilation be considered healthy, somewhat meditating?

A resounding no on my part. Controversial it seems?! :crazy:

[KCurtis]

[QUOTE=stlukesguild;1115595]



Also in some parts of the US it would seem.:biggrin5:


http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4531/paline.jpg
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Haunted]

Also in some parts of the US it would seem.:biggrin5:


http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4531/paline.jpg


I feel offended. Dragging politics into this. Also Palin doesn't' spit venom with the demeanor of a junkyard dog.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Dragging politics into things is what Emil does.

[Haunted]

It's especially annoying to get that kind of judgmental commentary from someone from another country. They don't even live here. How do they know what our issues are and which politicians are not right for the job.

To get back on topic I wonder if he's got Obama's tattoo or tattoos of Palin's opponents.

[JuniperWoolf]

:lurk5::lol:Oh my lord, I don’t know where to start here, it’s really unbelievable! The best bits, in my opinion are:

1 The use of the word “controlled” as in controlled slashing yourself with a razor blade, or controlled burnings etc, brilliant.

Ahhh, the nauseating condescention. Never gets old and it's always such an effective tactic of debate.*


2 The parenthesis including the exclamation mark in “(not suicide intended!) super.

Like Pip said, there's a difference between self injury, hurting oneself because of overwhelming psychological stress which in many cases leads to suicide, and sadomasochism, hurting oneself or one’s partner for sexual gratification. That was the distincion I was making in parentheses. An obvious difference, and to imply that they're the same thing as you've been doing is offensive to both people with psychological illnesses and people who just-so-happen to have a sadomasochism fetish which, by the way, isn't even obscure anymore. Come on, this has to be willful ignorance, right?


4 The mere implication that opening your skin with razors is the preferred option over having a pint or two of beer or a bottle of wine. Crazy.

Tell me why, because that's what you do? Sorry, human morality doesn't operate with the slogan "What Would Neely Do?" in mind. You don't know best. You're just some random middle-aged man living in England. What's "normal" for you means absolutely nothing to anybody who isn't you, and THAT'S what I can't believe you haven't realized yet.


6 Incredulity that I haven’t come to the same conclusion as you – why on earth would I, I don’t know?

Because it makes more sense and is also reflected in almost all countries' laws and social norms including your own? There's nothing in the law to reflect that there's something abnormal, wrong or "crazy" about sadomasochism, nor should there be. Nor is sadomasochims particularly frowned upon by popular society or the media, everyone's aware of it and NO ONE cares (except religious people sometimes, but that's normal). Why should consentual adults not be allowed to do what they want in there own bedrooms without you (metaphorically) spitting on them? Would you like people to start spitting on you for the way you live your personal life? Maybe I'll start, I've certainly gotten my fair share of the same treatment from you this month.


7 What the hell? Who said anything about that, ever?

I did, just there. See? You quoted it. I was trying to find the reason for you being such a condescending douche. It can't be because you're trying to make friends, so it must be because you're trying to change other people to suit you. Following that train of thought I pointed out that you can't.



I’m not looking down on anyone, I’m merely pointing out that it is a crackpot thing to do.

Whiiiich iiiis looking down on people. Here, I'll demonstrate:

You drink? Are you serious? What psychotic spark in your little brain would inspire you to engage in purposely drinking poison for the sake of a little giddyness and blurred vision? That's sick, what's wrong with you? Your body is obviously telling you that it doesn't want to be poisoned when you wake up the next morning vomiting. That's absolutely disgusting and patently insane. I'm not looking down on you, though, I'm simply sharing my opinion that you should be engaging in the self-harming recreational behaviour that I engage in because it's better than what you do, on accounta I say so (although the results of my self-harming recreational behaviour are far more detrimental to my health than yours).

Hint: that's exactly what you sound like.


Brilliant. But I don’t care, I’m giving my, obviously strange, opinion that slashing yourself with razors is not really a good idea!

Neither is drinking. Until now, has anyone sounded off on you about how "crazy" you are or tried to make you feel like there's something seriously wrong with you for doing so?


Just giving my opinion, I’m not trying to “convert” people into not slashing open themselves, I’m just giving my opinion.

And that "opinion" was condescending and hypocritical, ergo the responses you've gotten. Maybe every time you mention drinking in a random thread, I'll chime in with my opinion.


Well, maybe I’m wrong then in this case, maybe we should encourage people to slice holes in themselves or to rip out their eyes, or whatever it is you’re supporting this time? Crazy.

It's not about insighting people towards self harm, it's about shutting the **** up about something that has nothing to do with you.


Also, you wouldn't be so quick to support skin slicing if you got an infection from it, I can tell you.

A List of Diseases Associated With Alcoholism

Cancer
Increased rates of tongue, lip, larynx, stomach, colon, breast, liver, bile duct and esophagus cancers.

The Reproductive System
Impotence, sexual dysfunction, infertility, gynecomastia, testicular atrophy, osteophenia

The Endocrine System
Diabetes, ketoacidosis, gout

The Cardiovascular System
High blood pressure, heart disease, artery disease, sudden heart failure, heart attack

The Liver
Fatty liver, alcoholic hepatitis, cirrhosis

The Blood
Anemia(s), marrow toxicity, an iron or folate deficiency, leucopenia

Increased Risks of Infection
Hep C, HIV, tuberculosis, meningitis, STD's, pneumonia

Gastrointestinal
Pancreatitis, gastritis, diarrhea (chronic) esophagatitis, colitis, acid reflux, parotid enlargement

The Brain
Seizure, Korsakof's syndrome, Wernicke's Syndrome, dementia, brain shrinkage, stroke, subdural hematoma, hemorrhage, neuropathy

Nutrition
Malnutrition from vitamin and mineral deficiencies


Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).

I usually ignore your personal insults towards me and I never retort with my own, because I know that your agression simply stems from the fact that you don't like me (which dates back to, and is a direct result of, the debate in which you argued that everyone should be forced to turn their radios down during the day because you don't like their music, haha!). However, in this case your attempts to belittle my point on the grounds that I'm from from Northern Canada is pretty racist, and your implication that my personality and lifestyle was deviously crafted to make ignorant men respect me (through cheap tricks like being raised by a hunting family in Northern Canada - ooooh, look out! I'm so crafty I've been building my reputation among narrow-minded misogynists as their definition of "masculine" since before I was born!) is very sexist. You're not hurting my feelings (I've heard worse **** against women, rig guys aren't exactly the paragons of politeness), but why do you think it's okay to do that?


The comparison of pathological behaviors with having a pint of two of beer is beyond all rational thinking.).

You're the one comparing "cutting" ie. self-injury as a coping mechanism for extreme psychological stress with sadomasochistic pleasure-from-pain sexual activity. There's nothing "pathological" about a fetish like sadomasochism. Everyone else on this thread seems clever enough to make that distinction.


No mention of sex incidentally.

Yeah, that was mentioned later by Revolte:


Tattoos give me sexual satisfaction.

...which is what started this debate. Don't you know how to follow a thread? Besides, directly in the OP:


Personally I find the same calming I get from being pierced or tattooed in self-mutilation.

That sounds like a description of a pleasure-from-pain response to me.

*sarcasm, laying it on pretty thick

[LitNetIsGreat]

I usually ignore your personal insults towards me and I never retort with my own…

I don’t know, it seems that you do this pretty well:


It's not about insighting people towards self harm, it's about shutting the **** up about something that has nothing to do with you.


What psychotic spark in your little brain…


I was trying to find the reason for you being such a condescending douche.


Are you blind, or just ignorant?


It’s much better to quit while you’re behind than to descend so low, but never mind. The bottom line is not the details of the thread or topic at hand anyway is it? For you’ll argue that the moon is made of cheese if I said it wasn’t, but rather some pent-up post teen angst directed at some of the more sensible posters on Litnet and your imaginary young Vs old obsession. In that case I’ll remind you of the wolf fable or introduce you to it as you might like it.


There are two wolves on the top of a hill; an old one and a young one. They’re both enjoying the sun, when suddenly they spot two sheep in the valley below. The younger one gets all excited and says to the older wolf "let's run down and get one." The older wolf replies "let's walk down and get them both."

You are a version of the younger wolf; rash and know-it-all, this is not something exclusively tied to youth, of course, but is so self-evident in your case nevertheless.


It's not about insighting people towards self harm, it's about shutting the **** up about something that has nothing to do with you.

That’s strange I thought someone posted a couple of questions on an open forum and asked for opinions. I didn’t realise that I had stormed into someone’s bedroom and started lecturing them about their sexual habits! What stupidity! :Yawn:

[JuniperWoolf]

I don’t know, it seems that you do this pretty well

Condescention makes me feisty, but there's nothing personal about any of my attacks. I don't bring up your family or your culture, do I? Nor do I bring up how you were raised, or how you identify yourself in light of your gender. Now that... that's personal.


For you’ll argue that the moon is made of cheese if I said it wasn’t, but rather some pent-up post teen angst directed at some of the more sensible posters on Litnet and your imaginary young Vs old obsession.

You're wrong. It has nothing to do with "angst" (which, again, means insecure/hopeless, and I'm an often-described an "over-hopeful" person who is sometimes way too confident). I'll argue against pseudo-morality based infringements of human freedom until I die, and this is just another example of narrow-minded people trying to push their condescending, "father knows best" BS down other people's throats when it is, in reality, absolutely none of their business (which is exactly why you and I got into it in the first place in the last thread).

Also, re. the "Young vs. Old" thing - that's Emil's obsession which he dragged everyone else into (and I suspect it's an awkward hangup of SLG's as well). Papaya, Kcurtis, Paul, Bill, Mick, Schere & Qim are quite a bit older than me, and I really like all of them. Also, Bastable is older than me and I dare say I have a bit of a crush on him (don't tell his wife, though). Your ongoing insistance that I give so much as one tiny little **** about age is a transparent attempt to take credence from everything that I've said based on the idea that I would give any more thought than is necessary to the fact that you were born before I was (which doesn't mean anything, I don't care about how many years either of us has been alive).


You are a version of the younger wolf; rash and know-it-all, this is not something exclusively tied to youth, of course, but is so self-evident in your case nevertheless.

That's a description of my personality, which has absolutely nothing to do with my age.


That’s strange I thought someone posted a couple of questions on an open forum and asked for opinions. I didn’t realise that I had stormed into someone’s bedroom and started lecturing them about their sexual habits! What stupidity!

Then maybe you shouldn't have started to lecture on the personal habits and sexual preferences of other people in the first place. You do have the right to do so, and we have the right to express our own contempt at your holier-than-thou hypocritical attitude.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

This has been good.

[Emil Miller]

.


[QUOTE]Also, Bastable is older than me and I dare say I have a bit of a crush on him. :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5:

The absolute perfect match, but one made in hell rather than heaven.

This one's heading straight to the Memorable Post's thread.:rofl:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Sorry for this off-topic post, but . . .

Emil . . . I'm not trying to be offensive in any way here, but why can you not quote properly? You just hit quote, leave it alone and type under it. I mean, I'm not even sure what you do. You must quote someone, and then after the initial brackets that show the person you quoted's name, retype "[quote]".

[Emil Miller]

Sorry for this off-topic post, but . . .

Emil . . . I'm not trying to be offensive in any way here, but why can you not quote properly? You just hit quote, leave it alone and type under it. I mean, I'm not even sure what you do. You must quote someone, and then after the initial brackets that show the person you quoted's name, retype "[quote]".

Yes I know, after all it's self-explanatory, but for some reason it malfunctions on occasion. You can tell by looking back over my posts that sometimes it works and other times it doesn't . Therefore, I have had to work out a way round it and, no, I don't have to type in the '[quote]'.

Haha I forgot to do it this time.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I see. Stupid technology.

[JuniperWoolf]

This has been good.

*takes bow*

[LitNetIsGreat]

I'll argue against pseudo-morality based infringements of human freedom until I die...

Apart from the right to give an opinion on an open forum that is. Or rather, one that differs from yours and then you come down on them like a stray rabid poodle!!!


Then maybe you shouldn't have started to lecture on the personal habits and sexual preferences of other people in the first place.

I haven't!!!!&&^%^%$£!!!

:crazy::smilielol5:

[Patrick_Bateman]

Self-mutilation in my view has been - to many - a coping mechanism with the stresses and in some cases horrors of their existence (e.g. traumatic experiences in the past or continuing in the present) It's a kind of self medication or therapy with a sharp object except it's not nearly as harmful or caustic as the kind of medications they prescribe in hospitals for psychological problems.

The manipulation of the brain and its neurotransmitters is far more pernicious than a scar on the arm. However helpful self harm may be to the individual it's still a dangerous practice and with today's society it causes one to become socially excluded which can only compound the issue at hand and proliferate episodes of self-harm. Therapy would be the only safe and effective alternative.

[JuniperWoolf]

Apart from the right to give an opinion on an open forum that is.

Actually I knew you'd fall back on that tired old argument so I specifically tried to head it off:


You do have the right to do so, and we have the right to express our own contempt at your holier-than-thou hypocritical attitude.

*sigh* I guess I failed to prevent the old act though. I'll make it more obvious next time.


I haven't!!!!&&^%^%$£!!

You did, in your first words on this thread:


Self-mutilation is absurd. Excluding serious mental issues, there can be no justification for cutting/burning/scaring/chopping off a finger at all.

[LitNetIsGreat]

You did, in your first words on this thread:



Originally Posted by Neely
Self-mutilation is absurd. Excluding serious mental issues, there can be no justification for cutting/burning/scaring/chopping off a finger at all.

Yes that is me giving my opinion on the thread question, thank you. I'm not lecturing, I'm not talking about people's sexual preferences, I'm giving my opinion in response to Revolte's questions which is what usually happens when someone opens up a thread and asks for opinions. I'm not saying that he or anyone else should agree with what I say, I don't know, I don't care, the question of self-mutilation as a form of meditation was asked and I responded. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone into not slashing themselves with razors or anything like that, I'm merely giving my opinion that it is absurd thing to do. If other people think otherwise that's fine. If you want to cut yourself open with a knife then be my guest. I'm not stopping you or anyone else.

[Alexander III]

Self-mutilation in my view has been - to many - a coping mechanism with the stresses and in some cases horrors of their existence (e.g. traumatic experiences in the past or continuing in the present) It's a kind of self medication or therapy with a sharp object except it's not nearly as harmful or caustic as the kind of medications they prescribe in hospitals for psychological problems.

The manipulation of the brain and its neurotransmitters is far more pernicious than a scar on the arm. However helpful self harm may be to the individual it's still a dangerous practice and with today's society it causes one to become socially excluded which can only compound the issue at hand and proliferate episodes of self-harm. Therapy would be the only safe and effective alternative.

But the question on hand is: even tough it is not safe, would you forbid an individual from cutting himself for sexual gratification or stress relief. Would you impose upon him a law delacring what he may or may not do with his own body - thereby implicitly implying that his body does not legaly belong to him, but rather to society. As when his desire and that of societies conflict in regards to his body, he would not have the deciding voice, society being the main shareholder of his body.

[JuniperWoolf]

Yes that is me giving my opinion on the thread question, thank you. I'm not lecturing.

Oh please, not that it matters (your the one who brought the word "lecture" into the conversation, I could have gotten along just fine without it in this discussion) but that was totally lecturing. "There can be no justification for cutting/burning/scaring/chopping off a finger at all?" Part of me could practically hear Mr. Neely saying: "There can be no justification for not preparing yourself for this exam at all."


I'm not talking about people's sexual preferences,

Sorry for cutting this sentence up (no pun intended), but that is literally what we have been discussing for almost this entire thread. Pleasure-from-pain. Revolte specifically mentioned sexual pleasure in his next post thereby bringing his intention out into the open, which I would quote here if not for the fact that I JUST DID in my previous post.


I'm giving my opinion in response to Revolte's questions which is what usually happens when someone opens up a thread and asks for opinions.

And if you give an opinion that other people are crazy or f*cked up, you will usually find that other people share their opinion that you are being hypocritical and condescending, which is exactly what is currently happening. If you don't want to debate with me or anyone then it's as easy as staying out of Serious Discussions (ie. the subforum for debate).


I'm not trying to "convert" anyone into not slashing themselves with razors or anything like that, I'm merely giving my opinion that it is absurd thing to do.

I know. I never said you were trying to convert people, in fact I specifically said that you're more liable to rally people against your frame of mind. What I said was that your "my way is obviously the sensible way simply because I say so, despite the fact that I engage in a much more detrimental self-harming recreational activity" is incorrect and hypocritical, and likely to accomplish nothing but turning people against you (to which you responded with that lovely dripping-with-condescention, smiley-filled post which got my hackles up this morning and almost made me vomit on my work desk). Ergo my next post in which I assert that they're not any crazier than you are, you just THINK they are because they're doing something that you don't do. That is the very definition of narrow-minded. YOU are narrow-minded, and it's silly to call people crazy or f*cked up just because they're not exactly like Neely.

This is officiallly going nowhere, we've resorted to literally describing the thread as it's occured up until this point. That's always a clear sign that it's over.

[Delta40]

Honestly, this is supposed to be a serious discussion forum but as per usual, it's outnumbered by those members who use the forum to go a few rounds with other members. The topic is just an excuse for a slagging match, personal point scoring and childish nitpicking. It's full of sarcastic comments to each other, disrespectful and although I did post a few times because this subject is very close to home for me, what's the damn point of me laying it out there when so few are really engaging in the discussion? I can barely see from all the **** flying back and forth.

[Varenne Rodin]

Does participating in a fight club count as self injurious behavior?

[JuniperWoolf]

Honestly, this is supposed to be a serious discussion forum but as per usual, it's outnumbered by those members who use the forum to go a few rounds with other members. The topic is just an excuse for a slagging match, personal point scoring and childish nitpicking. It's full of sarcastic comments to each other, disrespectful and although I did post a few times because this subject is very close to home for me, what's the damn point of me laying it out there when so few are really engaging in the discussion? I can barely see from all the **** flying back and forth.

You want to discuss cutting as a coping mechanism for psychological trauma, which I gather from your anecdotes about your daughter's illness. I blame that on a sloppy OP, Revolte didn't make a clear distinction between the two motivators of SI. If you want a discussion about the modern trend of teenagers slicing themselves open to get a bit of emotional relief, then a thread with this in the OP:


Personally I find the same calming I get from being pierced or tattooed in self-mutilation (Yes I seldom cut as well as burn and other forms of self inflicted damage).

...is not the place, and you'd probably be better off making your own thread which specifically sets a sombre, respectful tone and which would be more appropriate for discussing mental illness (and not a thread which implies that the OP gets a boner when he burns himself with cigarettes).

[Haunted]

It’s much better to quit while you’re behind than to descend so low, but never mind.


For some, they didn't "descend" this low. This is their level.......:incazzato:



Honestly, this is supposed to be a serious discussion forum but as per usual, it's outnumbered by those members who use the forum to go a few rounds with other members. The topic is just an excuse for a slagging match, personal point scoring and childish nitpicking. [...]

Too much "childish nitpicking", but mostly from the same source. Sadly it's my observation that certain people never grow up, in mentality, sensitivity and sensibility.



one that differs from yours and then you come down on them like a stray rabid poodle!!!



some pent-up post teen angst directed at some of the more sensible posters on Litnet [...]

It's not uncommon on public forums that when others don't disagree with them, they lash out and insult everyone in sight. But on a literary forum, we all expect members to be much more polished and show some art in how they use language.

But in this case, I think it's beyond that. Some certain individual really needs anger management.


Litnet should screen people for rabies before letting them in. Where are the animal control people when we need them?





:smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5:

The absolute perfect match, but one made in hell rather than heaven.


:ack2: :reddevil: Yahh, two cages please....

[JuniperWoolf]

^Hahahaha! You've been waiting a long-*** time to get that off your chest, haven't you sweetheart? I don't think I've pwned you in over a year! Have you been waiting in the wings all this time until my next flame-war with a fellow litnetter?


Too much "childish nitpicking", but mostly from the same source. Sadly it's my observation that certain people never grow up, in mentality, sensitivity and sensibility.

Yeah, and if your defenition of "growing up" means having no general knowledge of contemporary poetry, then crying to the mods and having the thread closed only to pop up in the middle of a random thread a month later to randomly flame someone, then I think I'll pass.

[Haunted]

Reminder everyone: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE]It's not uncommon on public forums that when others don't disagree with them, they lash out and insult everyone in sight. But on a literary forum, we all expect members to be much more polished and show some art in how they use language.

But in this case, I think it's beyond that. Some certain individual really needs anger management.

It's obvious to anyone, but until the moderators do something about it, the forum will have to put up with an increasing stream of foot-stamping infantilisme reminiscent of this.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5779/9819047girlwithpigtaili.jpg

[JuniperWoolf]

Reminder everyone: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

You're the one popping up in the middle of a thread and flaming all over the place regarding a random subject (ie. me, in this case) which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Isn't that the very definition of trolling?

Emil is going to pop up to spew his OWN flames in 3, 2, ...

Ohhhh sh*t, he was too quick for me!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Oh please, not that it matters (your the one who brought the word "lecture" into the conversation…

Wrong again. Yet another case of imagining what I say and going completely overboard, way past overboard - drowning in the sea.


…could have gotten along just fine without it in this discussion) but that was totally lecturing. "There can be no justification for cutting/burning/scaring/chopping off a finger at all?" Part of me could practically hear Mr. Neely saying: "There can be no justification for not preparing yourself for this exam at all."

Yet again another exception to this:


I'll argue against pseudo-morality based infringements of human freedom until I die...

Meaning: I don’t like his opinion or the tone of his opinion (or both) so I’ll bark off again. Human freedom until I die unless I don’t agree with it.


And if you give an opinion that other people are crazy or f*cked up…

Strange, since I’ve never used that language in my entire posting while I’ve been on Litnet! I don't see the point in swearing when it both against the rules and gets blocked out anyway. Another example of imaging what I’m saying and then insulting me (and nearly everyone else) for your imagination. Weird.


…you will usually find that other people share their opinion that you are being hypocritical and condescending, which is exactly what is currently happening. If you don't want to debate with me or anyone then it's as easy as staying out of Serious Discussions (ie. the subforum for debate).

I really don’t care if some people are small minded enough to dislike me for having opinions and sharing them. That’s not my problem. I don’t even think that’s the reality anyway. I’m not keeping out of Serious Discussions because of you either. I will go and read what I like and post where it takes my fancy. I do suggest in future though that if you stop hijacking my opinions with silly rants it will do several people a few favours.


YOU are narrow-minded, and it's silly to call people crazy or f*cked up just because they're not exactly like Neely.

Again I haven’t said that (play the record) again, this is your imagination and hate issue, not mine. Narrow-minded? I say pot and kettle scenario.


This is officiallly going nowhere, we've resorted to literally describing the thread as it's occured up until this point. That's always a clear sign that it's over.

Good idea. This is about the only sensible thing you have said. Let’s hope this is over; just end it here.

[JuniperWoolf]

Wrong again. Yet another case of imagining what I say and going completely overboard, way past overboard - drowning in the sea.

Aaaaaaand why? Another hint, Neely: when you're debating with someone, you've got to explain your points. You can't just randomly say stuff with that "so there!" attitude, that's not even a point at all.


Meaning: I don’t like his opinion or the tone of his opinion (or both) so I’ll bark off again. Human freedom until I die unless I don’t agree with it.

Wrong. As I've said three times before, you're free to say whatever you want and if anyone ever tried to inhibit you from doing so I'd beak off at them in the same way I'm currently beaking off at you. Haven't you ever heard the phrase "I don't agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it?" Do you even know what "freedom" means?



Strange, since I’ve never used that language in my entire posting while I’ve been on Litnet!

Yes, no s***, I was obviously paraphrasing. I could have said that you thought they were "insane and unnatural," but the language that you use is, frankly, so stuffy that it feels like a straightjacket on me. I didn't change the meaning in the slightest. I could prove that by going through the thread to quote your actual language, but I'm tired as hell and I have to work in eight hours.


I don't see the point in swearing when it both against the rules and gets blocked out anyway.

Actually, it isn't against the rules according to Admin:


If you want to get a point across that requires you to swear, swear normally. It will be blocked by the word filters. However, like TV bleeps, everyone will know what you mean. Except for the little innocent kids.

I hate you ****ing *******.

This is yet another example of why you need to learn how to read more carefully.


I’m not keeping out of Serious Discussions because of you either. I will go and read what I like and post where it takes my fancy. I do suggest in future though that if you stop hijacking my opinions with silly rants it will do several people a few favours.

I'm not trying to bully you out, I'm telling you that if debate bothers you so much than maybe you should consider staying out of the debate subforum. How is that even a controversial statement?


Narrow-minded? I say pot and kettle scenario.

So you are admitting you're narrow minded! The kettle was black, right? :p


Let’s hope this is over; just end it here.

I guess we'll see.

[Haunted]

You're the one popping up in the middle of a thread and flaming all over the place regarding a random subject (ie. me, in this case) which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Isn't that the very definition of trolling?

Emil is going to pop up to spew his OWN flames in 3, 2, ...

Me "popping up in the middle of a thread and flaming all over the place regarding a random subject (ie. me, in this case)"?????

So no one can post in the middle of a thread? Who are you to decide who can come in to post and who can't?

How could you deduce that it was you as the subject? Did something click?


You are wrong. I didn't start the flaming. It was already started. I was here to post on topic but all I saw was complaints from respectable Litnetters about a certain "rabid grizzly bear" and "stray rabid poodle" for her "childish nitpicking".




^Hahahaha! You've been waiting a long-*** time to get that off your chest, haven't you sweetheart? I don't think I've pwned you in over a year!

You've "pwned" me....hmmm.

So you admitted to harassing and abusing other members? Gotcha.

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/announcement.php?f=8591


oh jeez, I just fed the troll. My bad.


Wrong again. Yet another case of imagining what I say and going completely overboard, way past overboard - drowning in the sea.


....

Strange, since I’ve never used that language in my entire posting while I’ve been on Litnet! I don't see the point in swearing when it both against the rules and gets blocked out anyway. Another example of imaging what I’m saying and then insulting me (and nearly everyone else) for your imagination. Weird.


....

I do suggest in future though that if you stop hijacking my opinions with silly rants it will do several people a few favours.


....

Again I haven’t said that (play the record) again, this is your imagination and hate issue, not mine. Narrow-minded? I say pot and kettle scenario.



Good idea. This is about the only sensible thing you have said. Let’s hope this is over; just end it here.

Ditto. If it's any consolation Neely, it happened to me times before...someone putting words in my mouth that I didn't say, then picks a fight based on their "imagining" what I said. Guess who.





Yeah, and if your defenition of "growing up" means having no general knowledge of contemporary poetry [...]

Getting a little personal, don't you think? Usually when someone loses an argument they resort to personal insults.

Anyway a big thank you for reading my poetry. I didn't know you know so much about contemporary poetry. What are your credentials?

You should post your comments there. Practically all the comments I received are positive. It needs a rabid poster to mix things up.




When this calms down I'd like reply to the OP and comment on some thoughtful posts. This to be an interesting thread and shouldn't be disrupted by teenage outbursts.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Honestly, this is supposed to be a serious discussion forum but as per usual, it's outnumbered by those members who use the forum to go a few rounds with other members. The topic is just an excuse for a slagging match, personal point scoring and childish nitpicking. It's full of sarcastic comments to each other, disrespectful and although I did post a few times because this subject is very close to home for me, what's the damn point of me laying it out there when so few are really engaging in the discussion? I can barely see from all the **** flying back and forth.
Yes, because that wouldn't be a boring forum at all.



:ack2: :reddevil: Yahh, two cages please....
I love that that statement is in the same post condemning people for childish behavior.


How could you deduce that it was you as the subject? Did something click?


Oh, please. It's so painfully obvious that you're talking about Juniper it's ridiculous. You, like so many others, must also have some sort of vendetta against Juniper. What's wrong, did she hurt you feewings?

Juniper isn't a troll, anymore than anyone else in this thread. On the count of people throwing around childish insults, either more or Emil probably hold the top spot in that regard, as opposed to Juniper who has written her side pretty extensively. She's just passionate, and you apparently have absolutely no clue what an actual troll is. If anyone is a troll here, it's been Emil (not that I think he has been), as all he has done is post pictures and smartass comments.

Frankly, heated debates like this are why I come to this forum. As opposed to certain martyrs, if we all always got along and walked on our tip-toes so we didn't hurt anyone's feeling, things would suck. If you have a problem with it, don't come on here and act like you're above everyone (Haunted). If you have a huge problem with something, report it to the moderators (as I've been told to do by the moderators several times).


Ditto. If it's any consolation Neely, it happened to me times before...someone putting words in my mouth that I didn't say, then picks a fight based on their "imagining" what I said. Guess who.





Getting a little personal, don't you think? Usually when someone loses an argument they resort to personal insults.

Anyway a big thank you for reading my poetry. I didn't know you know so much about contemporary poetry. What are your credentials?

You should post your comments there. Practically all the comments I received are positive. It needs a rabid poster to mix things up.




When this calms down I'd like reply to the OP and comment on some thoughtful posts. This to be an interesting thread and shouldn't be disrupted by teenage outbursts.
Oh, please, stop being a hypocrite. You're the one who came on here attacking Juniper, condemning HER for childish behavior, so quit with this crap, will you? It's more trollish than anything she's done.

[Haunted]

Oh, please. It's so painfully obvious that you're talking about Juniper it's ridiculous. You, like so many others, must also have some sort of vendetta against Juniper. What's wrong, did she hurt you feewings?



I haven't read the rest of your post and I don't intend to. It's all apologist spiel. BUt let me ask you this: how long have you been active around here? This lady you are defending has been stalking me and harassing me and others since 2009. She violated me many times. DId you read what she just said? "I don't think I've pwned you in over a year!" That's how long she's been on my back, going back years. I couldn't shake her.

I don't think people here have vendetta other than we are provoked. And you, young man, you are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

You came to defend someone like a boy rushing to defend his best buddy and picking a fight with someone who you don'tt know, that's very high school. And you call me childish? Let me say this to you: you didn't attack me by calling me childish, you attacked your own sensibility. Think about that.

As to you latest post, I won't dignify with an reply except that you didn't know the history of abuse from this certain poster. If I were you, I would butt out.

[Delta40]

I don't see why the OP's question: Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting? isn't a respectable enough question for me to address the issues involving self harm in a serious discussion forum. I also don't see many other posts commenting on it.

Besides, after reading the exchanges on this thread and others, I'm genuinely reluctant to provide yet another boxing ring for members that appear to do nothing else but thrash out their views at the cost of others for no other reason than having the satisfaction of stomping over other people.

[Haunted]

I don't see why the OP's question: Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting? isn't a respectable enough question for me to address the issues involving self harm in a serious discussion forum. I also don't see many other posts commenting on it.

Besides, after reading the exchanges on this thread and others, I'm genuinely reluctant to provide yet another boxing ring for members that appear to do nothing else but thrash out their views at the cost of others for no other reason than having the satisfaction of stomping over other people.

I meant to comment on your posts before all this distraction. I cant imagine you going through this with your daughter. IT's most definitely not healthy.

Don't know if she will outgrow it as she reaches adulthood. It's a form of release for teenage angst but to a harmful extreme. I believe she also has OCD. Is she taking meds for the disorder?

[KCurtis]

Just to clarify my earlier assertions: I do not think it's good or healthy for a person to use self-mutilation as a coping mechanism for depression. Other than the obvious possible results of real harm (even if it's a staff infection from a small cut) it just doesn't seem like it's in any way healthy. It's just a gut feeling.

What I don't have a problem with is masochism used to derive pleasure rather than to alleviate emotional pain. I'm talking about the guys who go to dominatrixes to get whipped and have hot wax poured on them. If that's what they get off on, more power to 'em. I don't see any harm in that.

As far as people wanting to amputate themselves, there something wrong there . . . but whether or not someone should be able to do it is a more complicated matter--probably moreso than any of us are intelligent enough to understand.

What about this guy:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_R51-i3_O-RM/SgFO7Pba72I/AAAAAAAAbhE/YE9759Zprv4/s400/26_unnecessary_body_modifications_20090503_1700515 549.jpeg

Should that be allowed?

I want to know where this guy works.

[stlukesguild]

I usually ignore your personal insults towards me and I never retort with my own, because I know that your agression simply stems from the fact that you don't like me (which dates back to, and is a direct result of, the debate in which you argued that everyone should be forced to turn their radios down during the day because you don't like their music, haha!). However, in this case your attempts to belittle my point on the grounds that I'm from from Northern Canada is pretty racist...

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I have far more important things to do and far more pressing issues in my life that to take it upon myself to hate some unknown person on the internet because of a dispute some months or a year ago... although if it makes you feel more important to believe that I really consider your opinion of such value, please feel free to continue on in your illusions.

SLG (quoted)The comparison of pathological behaviors with having a pint of two of beer is beyond all rational thinking.).

You're the one comparing "cutting" ie. self-injury as a coping mechanism for extreme psychological stress with sadomasochistic pleasure-from-pain sexual activity. There's nothing "pathological" about a fetish like sadomasochism.OLOR] Everyone else on this thread seems clever enough to make that distinction.

Had you read my post more carefully you might have noticed that I clearly differentiated sadomasochistic behaviors from the pathological self-harm:

"There are cultural traditions involving what others might term "self mutilation" or "body alteration". These certainly include tattoos, scarification, piercings, etc... These are different from slicing one's wrist with a razor and any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behavior which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies."

I suspect, however, that reading comprehension has never been your strong suit. As for the notion that everyone is "clever enough" to make the differentiation between sadomasochistic behavior and pathological self harm... it seems that perhaps you are slightly challenged here in comparison to the accepted norm... at least according to medical, psychiatric, and legal norms.

I will state the reality once more for the sake of argument:

Any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behaviors as cutting oneself or burning oneself which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies. This is for the simple reason that such behaviors are linked with a large percentage of suicides. Various forms of self-harm including skin-cutting, burning, scratching, banging or hitting body parts, interfering with wound healing, hair-pulling, and the ingestion of toxic substances or objects are commonly classified among medical and psychiatric professionals as a symptom of borderline personality disorders and often related to other mental disorders including depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, eating disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizophrenia. This would seem to be enough for the normal, thinking human being to look upon self-harm or self-mutilation with a degree of concern.

(By the way, alcoholism and behaviors associated with substance abuse and eating disorders are usually not considered "self-harm" under medical guidelines because the resulting tissue damage is ordinarily an unintentional side effect... but certainly, excessive alcoholism and drug abuse are equally of concern.)

I'll argue against pseudo-morality based infringements of human freedom until I die...

The reality is that your arguments have nothing to do with "human freedom"... at least not outside of some idealized fantasy world, and most of us live in a world of awkward reality. As Neely suggests, I also suspect your arguments are simply made for the sake of an obsession with "winning" the argument... regardless of what is being argued for or against.

Hahahaha! You've been waiting a long-*** time to get that off your chest, haven't you sweetheart? I don't think I've pwned you in over a year! Have you been waiting in the wings all this time until my next flame-war with a fellow litnetter?

A comment like this would seem to prove that both Neely and I are onto something. It's not about arguing a point... coming to a consensus or even a balanced compromise based upon logic and rational thought. That would assume that your aim is uncovering the truth or some semblance thereof, when your stated aim is nothing more "pawning" your opponent. To achieve such an end you bombard the site with incoherent ramblings and profanity. Unfortunately, if you are actually going to succeed at pawning anyone here you'll need to display a degree of logical thought... or at least some modicum of wit. I have yet to see much of either.

[Haunted]

I want to know where this guy works.

It would be interesting to see how he can get by airport security checks.

Have you seen the "Horsemen"? I think it's that movie, there are people who have wires thread through their skin, an extreme form of body piercing. But it doesn't end there, they are suspended from the ceiling with these wires and only with their skin holding up their bodies. eeek

[Alexander III]

Getting a little personal, don't you think? Usually when someone loses an argument they resort to personal insults.



Indeed, they do:


"For some, they didn't "descend" this low. This is their level......"

"Sadly it's my observation that certain people never grow up, in mentality, sensitivity and sensibility. "

"Some certain individual really needs anger management."


"Litnet should screen people for rabies before letting them in. Where are the animal control people when we need them?"




You are quite right, if anything it is the sign of a vindictive and limited character.

[Delta40]

I meant to comment on your posts before all this distraction. I cant imagine you going through this with your daughter. IT's most definitely not healthy.

Don't know if she will outgrow it as she reaches adulthood. It's a form of release for teenage angst but to a harmful extreme. I believe she also has OCD. Is she taking meds for the disorder?

Thankfully she doesn't cut anymore. She was resistant to counselling too at the time but I made up a safe self harm box which included paprika and chilli powder, vicks vapour rub and fine line red ink line gel pens which really hurt like hell when you press them into your skin - plus you get the blood effect. The other stuff, she could stick up her nose, in her eyes or any orifice she chose to inflict pain.

Her story is little more complicated and it wasn't about OCD. She's an adult now, a working public servant in a settled relationship who is in therapy. I'm fortunate that we are close.

She is really mad at some of the generalized comments people make about self-harm having been down that road herself.

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE]If anyone is a troll here, it's been Emil (not that I think he has been), as all he has done is post pictures and smartass comments.

That's because there's no point trying to argue rationally with an attention seeking individual who's talking nonsense anyway, but if someone behaves like a demented harridan on the forum and the moderators allow it to go on unpunished, I am not going to stand by and see perfectly legitimate members insulted and sworn at, without passing comment. This is supposed to be a forum for reasoned debate and, while I have often tried to lighten the discussions with some joking references to stop us from taking ourselves too seriously, there is a difference between that and behaviour of someone who obviously has a severe personality disorder.



If you have a huge problem with something, report it to the moderators.

Point taken.

[KCurtis]

It would be interesting to see how he can get by airport security checks.

Have you seen the "Horsemen"? I think it's that movie, there are people who have wires thread through their skin, an extreme form of body piercing. But it doesn't end there, they are suspended from the ceiling with these wires and only with their skin holding up their bodies. eeek
I can't look at that, and I really have an aversion to extreme body piercing too. But ofcourse people have free will and should. I really do wonder where that guy works.

[MarkBastable]

That's because there's no point trying to argue rationally with an attention seeking individual who's talking nonsense anyway...

Quite sincerely, that's exactly the attitude I take towards you.


while I have often tried to lighten the discussions with some joking references to stop us from taking ourselves too seriously, there is a difference between that and behaviour of someone who obviously has a severe personality disorder.

Wow. It's uncanny.

[Haunted]

Thankfully she doesn't cut anymore. She was resistant to counselling too at the time but I made up a safe self harm box which included paprika and chilli powder, vicks vapour rub and fine line red ink line gel pens which really hurt like hell when you press them into your skin - plus you get the blood effect. The other stuff, she could stick up her nose, in her eyes or any orifice she chose to inflict pain.

Her story is little more complicated and it wasn't about OCD. She's an adult now, a working public servant in a settled relationship who is in therapy. I'm fortunate that we are close.

She is really mad at some of the generalized comments people make about self-harm having been down that road herself.

Wow, that's a relief. I do think it's a passing phase, and isn't it great to hear she's fully functional now.

I relate because I'm a minor case of her. I don't cut but I do things that induce blood to "bead" to distract me from the real problems. It started when I was little. It's OCD too.




I can't look at that, and I really have an aversion to extreme body piercing too. But ofcourse people have free will and should. I really do wonder where that guy works.

I guess we can rule out the TSA :D

[LitNetIsGreat]

If anyone is a troll here, it's been Emil (not that I think he has been), as all he has done is post pictures and smartass comments.

But was it Emil who posted an image of a gigantic straw man? :smilewinkgrin:

......................................

On a more sober note, I think that the insults in this thread has gone on for far too long and should come to an end now.

[Delta40]

I want to know where this guy works.

The Inland Revenue?

[Emil Miller]

Quite sincerely, that's exactly the attitude I take towards you.

You still don't appear to have got my earlier message. So let's put the issue beyond doubt.

:leaving:Exit pursued by an incorrigible bore who's a bit slow on the uptake.

See? All you need is caring, involved support.

Oh, and incidentally, there is no such word as 'unspecial' as used in your nitpicking of Darcy 88's recent post. Perhaps you should stick to things that you know although I realise that would limit your contribution somewhat.

[MarkBastable]

...........


'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' as the old saying goes.

[Delta40]

Wow, that's a relief. I do think it's a passing phase, and isn't it great to hear she's fully functional now.

I relate because I'm a minor case of her. I don't cut but I do things that induce blood to "bead" to distract me from the real problems. It started when I was little. It's OCD too.

I really couldn't say whether it's a passing phase or not. I know (from experience) that if cutters don't get release from cutting then they will need to find it in something else and who knows what that might be? Cutting is a private personal practice and parents may not even know their kids are doing it either. It wasn't till our sweltering summer arrived and she was constantly wearing long sleeved tops that I started to wonder what was wrong and even then I didn't really know. But a smarter friend planted the seed in my head and I took her by surprise one day and yanked up her sleeve and was flabbergasted by the festering wounds.

Haunted I'd say that managing the real problems is always going to be the best long term solution even if it seems tougher than distracting yourself because by avoiding it, the solution tomorrow will be harder than it is today x

[Haunted]

I really couldn't say whether it's a passing phase or not. I know (from experience) that if cutters don't get release from cutting then they will need to find it in something else and who knows what that might be?

arhh, one has to wonder. If she lives with you, you can pay extra attention to her patterns. Usually there are telltale signs, like long sleeves, as you noted. But if she goes onto something external, like tats or piercings, then I think it's a healthy progression. I will return later to give my position on tats and piercings.

Anyway some problems have no solutions. I can solve problems on a professional level, but no so much my own personal problems. Most have no solutions, only acceptance. I pick what I want to accept, and others just hang around me like a dark cloud x

[Emil Miller]

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as the old saying goes.

Between flattery and admiration there often flows a river of contempt, as another old saying goes

[Delta40]

arhh, one has to wonder. If she lives with you, you can pay extra attention to her patterns. Usually there are telltale signs, like long sleeves, as you noted. But if she goes onto something external, like tats or piercings, then I think it's a healthy progression. I will return later to give my position on tats and piercings.

Anyway some problems have no solutions. I can solve problems on a professional level, but no so much my own personal problems. Most have no solutions, only acceptance. I pick what I want to accept, and others just hang around me like a dark cloud x

Between you and me there are some 'problems' not worth solving :smilewinkgrin:

Anyway, no tats, no piercings something alot more wreckless but amazingly enough she got through that too and as devastated as I am, she is clearing the clouds and discovering the underlying issue and in hindsight, I'm a pretty awesome Mum. You know, I really hate those bull**** books on parenting!!! They're of no use whatsoever in the real world :smile5:

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I haven't read the rest of your post and I don't intend to. It's all apologist spiel. BUt let me ask you this: how long have you been active around here? This lady you are defending has been stalking me and harassing me and others since 2009. She violated me many times. DId you read what she just said? "I don't think I've pwned you in over a year!" That's how long she's been on my back, going back years. I couldn't shake her.

I don't think people here have vendetta other than we are provoked. And you, young man, you are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

You came to defend someone like a boy rushing to defend his best buddy and picking a fight with someone who you don'tt know, that's very high school. And you call me childish? Let me say this to you: you didn't attack me by calling me childish, you attacked your own sensibility. Think about that.

As to you latest post, I won't dignify with an reply except that you didn't know the history of abuse from this certain poster. If I were you, I would butt out.
I've been active are around here, at least off-and-on, since I joined.*

I still find it amusing that I'm being called childish by someone who, out of sheer petulance, decides not to read the rest of someone's post.

Look, I don't want to make some sort of enemy out of you, but don't act like you're above all the pettiness and personal jabs. You're making them too.

And I'm not sorry for defending Juniper. I count her as a good, provocative poster.


I don't see why the OP's question: *Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting? isn't a respectable enough question for me to address the issues involving self harm in a serious discussion forum. *I also don't see many other posts commenting on it. *

Besides, after reading the exchanges on this thread and others, I'm genuinely reluctant to provide yet another boxing ring for members that appear to do nothing else but thrash out their views at the cost of others for no other reason than having the satisfaction of stomping over other people.
What cost to others?*

Seriously, I think some around here need to grow some thicker skin.*

[Delta40]

Seriously, I think some around here need to grow some thicker skin.*

:smile5: Isn't that like me asking you to become more considerate? :smile5:

[BienvenuJDC]

:smile5: Isn't that like me asking you to become more considerate? :smile5:

As well as others on here being more considerate. Maybe we all could...

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

:grouphug:

[Logos]

Besides some too-graphic content for this ALL AGES discussion forum in this thread, flaming, trolling and off-topic posts are what get it closed :)