Comic Books

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I'm sure there's a thread about comic books somewhere, but I don't see why we can't start a new one.

So basically, I'm wondering two things to get this possible conversation going: who here reads comics, and which ones do you like? I guess we could discuss the merits of comics as literature, but that's not really the purpose I intend. If you've just gotta say something, though, go for it.

As for me, I love comics. I love superheroes. They're fun, and good entertainment. Personally, I read comics more for the art and fun than the story lines. I really think Jim Lee is the best artist out there when it comes to drawing superheroes. He's doing the new JLA for DC, and while the story is pretty weak, the art is just fantastic.

I love DC and Marvel. I've always thought DC has cooler heroes (Batman alone is enough for them to take that prize) and Marvel has the better stories (except maybe Batman). The big three I usually read is Justice League, Batman, and X-Men, and if you know how comics work, there're several different series for each of those, except JLA.

Lately, though, I've been seeking out comics with good stories. The two I've read before that have been really good and are what I would put in the category of good, high-quality literature would be Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and Alan Moore's Watchmen. I've just started Neil Gaiman's Sandman series, and now being on number 6, I think it may surpass those two as the most well-written of any comic I've read.

So, what do you like?

[Varenne Rodin]

Batman and X-Men are favorites of mine. I love the female villains of Batman. The villains of X-Men are great too. I don't know what it is about the bad guys. I also love the look of comic bodies. Ultimate fantasies. I collect Superman comics. I have the first one, mint and sealed. I have the death of Superman and some rare editions that were only released on the east coast of the states in the early 80s (girl nerd alert). Strangely, Superman is not one of my favorites, but it was something my brother and I had in common. I guess I keep them for happy memories.

I really loved underground comics in grade school. I made and sold my own for a long time. I do cosplay too. Great fun. Good topic, Mutatis. Who are your top 10 favorite heroes and villains? I'll have to think of mine and come back.

[BienvenuJDC]

(girl nerd alert).

Yes, but there is something appealing about girl nerds.


I always liked the X-Men comics. But I never had the money for comics (or anything else for that matter)

[Varenne Rodin]

Yes, but there is something appealing about girl nerds.


I always liked the X-Men comics. But I never had the money for comics (or anything else for that matter)

I know how that is. I grew up poor too. That's the great thing about the internet age though. Now a lot of this stuff can be found for free. If you don't have time to read it, you can browse pictures...

Jean Grey as Phoenix
http://perfect-girls.deviantart.com/gallery/?set=29025961&offset=24#/d48i4wn

This is the hottest artist depiction of Wonder Woman I've ever seen..
http://perfect-girls.deviantart.com/gallery/?set=29025961&offset=0#/d34sat4

Lina Inverse ftw
http://perfect-girls.deviantart.com/gallery/?set=29025961&offset=0#/d4j2ah5

[mortalterror]

1982- Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo
1982- Miracleman by Alan Moore
1983- Saga of the Swamp Thing by Alan Moore
1986- Watchmen by Alan Moore
1986- The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller
1986- Maus by Art Spiegelman
1989- Sandman by Neil Gaiman
1989- Ghost In The Shell by Masamune Shirow
1990- Battle Angel Alita by Yukito Kishiro
1990- Berserk by Kentaro Miura
1991- Wolverine: Weapon X by Barry Windsor-Smith
1995- Preacher by Garth Ennis
1998- Daredevil: Guardian Devil by Kevin Smith
2002- Y: The Last Man by Brian K. Vaughn
2003- The Walking Dead by Robert Kirkman
2004- Punisher MAX by Garth Ennis

[JuniperWoolf]

-Alan Moore is one of my favorite writers of any medium, his contributions to Swamp Thing are my favorites from him but I've read almost everything he's ever written (everything available in Canada anyway) and I like it all.

-I like Maus a lot, favorite holocaust book.

-The Long Halloween series = best from the Batman franchise. The artwork was great and the writing wasn't bad either.

-Stuff like Battle Angel Alita isn't bad (off-putting artwork) but in terms of Japanese comics I like girly highschool stuff like Mars.

-The Death of Superman is a must-read.

[Helga]

I have to admit I have never bought comics but a friend of mine does so I have read a whole lot of X-men and Batman. Batman is my favorite superhero, like said above he has some great villains (I actually plan on writing my B.A thesis on villains in sci-fi and fantasy).

I also loved Maus by Spiegelman and I am getting to know Gaiman.

Here on the ice one of our most popular artist is a comic book writer, not in the same way as the before mentioned comics but comics. Judd Apatow loves his work his name is Hugleikur, that's his art name it means mind games.

just to touch the topic of comics in literature, of course they are literature! I have to read a comic book in one of my classes now and there are two course at school, one just about comics and the other about comics and sci-fi and they are very popular. So young literary majors on the ice read a lot of comics.

[MystyrMystyry]

Early with Tin Tin, Asterix, and Magnuss Magnussen Robot Fighter (or something). Then there was the Phantom, Uncle Scrooge, Thor, and the original X-men. (all favorites at the time, no point mentioning the ones that didn't cut it)

I did discover some underground stuff I really liked, inheriting a Freakbrothers and a few other annuals, and a bookshop had some weird psychedelic French annuals sort of like dark Heavy Metals.

But at some point there was Batman!

Great noir artwork aside, for the first time a comic with an actually engrossing story.

Been hooked ever since.

[Arrowni]

I love comics, but I don't have a single particular style that I prefer over others. It's definitively a good place to express horror/sci fi stories -and of course, super heroes!-.

Also, manga deserves a mention on this, pretty solid stories there.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Batman and X-Men are favorites of mine. I love the female villains of Batman. The villains of X-Men are great too. I don't know what it is about the bad guys. I also love the look of comic bodies. Ultimate fantasies. I collect Superman comics. I have the first one, mint and sealed. I have the death of Superman and some rare editions that were only released on the east coast of the states in the early 80s (girl nerd alert). Strangely, Superman is not one of my favorites, but it was something my brother and I had in common. I guess I keep them for happy memories.

I really loved underground comics in grade school. I made and sold my own for a long time. I do cosplay too. Great fun. Good topic, Mutatis. Who are your top 10 favorite heroes and villains? I'll have to think of mine and come back.
Wow, a first edition of Suoerman? That must have set you back.

As for my top 10 (aside from the first few, they're in no particular order)

1. Batman - Dark and disturbed, cool gadgets, cool care, great intellect. What not to love?
2. Green Lantern - A ring that can do anything you can think of has always appealed to me.
3. Superman - I used to be an avowed non-fan of Superman as I saw him as one-dimensional, but if written right, he really isn't. He's the quintessential superhero.
4. Wolverine - Love the attitude and the claws, and I think I'm a but envious of the healing ability.
(the following in no particular order)
5. Kitty Pride/Shadowcat - The idea of walking through walls has always seemed cool.
6. Nightcrawler - I love his powers, but mostly I love his look.
7. Thor - I've never read one Thor comic, but I love the idea of a superhero taken from Norse mythology.
8. Magneto - I just think he's a great villain.
9. Iron Man - Super robotic suit that let's you fly and shoot stuff out of your palms and chest. Sounds like a lot of fun.
10. Daredevil - I just love the idea of a disabled super hero.

-Alan Moore is one of my favorite writers of any medium, his contributions to Swamp Thing are my favorites from him but I've read almost everything he's ever written (everything available in Canada anyway) and I like it all.

-I like Maus a lot, favorite holocaust book.

-The Long Halloween series = best from the Batman franchise. The artwork was great and the writing wasn't bad either.

-Stuff like Battle Angel Alita isn't bad (off-putting artwork) but in terms of Japanese comics I like girly highschool stuff like Mars.

-The Death of Superman is a must-read.
I really liked the Death of Superman . . . the the follow up scenes of him in Heaven struck me as a bit silly.

I liked The Long Halloween, but don't remember loving it. It was a long, long time ago, though. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

I've never read Swamp Thing, I'll have to check it out.

You should check out Sandman, Juniper. I think you'd dig it.

Yes, but there is something appealing about girl nerds.

Agreed.

[Bonsai Ent]

I'm getting into Deadpool at the moment.
Also quite enjoy the post-ditko Question.

[Mr.lucifer]

I like superhero comics too. But my favorite and the best comics are the alternative comics. I'm not talking about companies like Dark horse and Image, but publishers like fantagraphics and Drawn and Quarterly.

Their comics have the most interesting stories and the best art. The best comics of today probaly rival the best literature of today.

[Sancho Panza]

The best comic book that I ever read was V for Vendetta by Alan Moore, though I wasn't overly keen on the movie until the second time I saw it.

Normally, the only comics I really read are Japanese mangas with Chobits being among my favourites along with Naussicaa and the excellent anime film that became of it by the genius that is Hayao Miyazake.

I have never yet been able to get into American comics as they all seem to be samey and rely too much on spandex. The main exception to this is The Walking Dead, which I only discovered after the TV series, which was excellent.

[OrphanPip]

I don't read comics as much as I did around 17-18, but I still occasionally check them out. I got Craig Thomson's new comic but haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but his Blankets is absolutely brilliant.

I like Alison Bechdel's autobiography Fun Home, which is largely about her suspicion that her father in fact committed suicide because he was in the closet.

Maus is an obvious suggestion.

In terms of Japanese comics, there's a lot of charm in the old romance comics, I like Takahashi's Maison Ikkoku, and CLAMPS campy stuff like Chobits and xxxHolic have their charms too.

I like the genre awareness of Battle Angel Alita, though I get where Jun gets turned off by the grotesque aspects (at least it's not Gants). I actually kind of like the ultra-violent early 90s stuff like Fist of the North Star. Lone Wolf and Cub is worth a mention for being a major classic of the 70s. I like Tezuka's Buddha series. I think Akira is a mediocre comic, but the anime movie it inspired is a classic.

Mortal also mentioned Berserk, which I followed for years but have mixed feelings about. Good action and it carries on the wandering action hero genre that was a big hit in the 90s, which I like. Running biweekly for 20+ years makes it a daunting series to launch yourself into if you have't been following it for a while though.

[Delta40]

I used to collect 70's girls comics Judy, June and Bunty but I stopped a few years ago and gave them to my daughter. I don't why I like them so much. The stories aren't in anyway action packed and are often schoolbased or povertybased showing the talents and strengths of some girl who is disadvangtaged in some way from other girls. I'd probably be able to hunt more down on ebay but I enjoyed looking for them in second hand stores and markets along with girls annuals. They were a great way to get my kids interested in reading when they were little.

[mortalterror]

I don't read comics as much as I did around 17-18, but I still occasionally check them out. I got Craig Thomson's new comic but haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but his Blankets is absolutely brilliant.

I like Alison Bechdel's autobiography Fun Home, which is largely about her suspicion that her father in fact committed suicide because he was in the closet.

Maus is an obvious suggestion.

In terms of Japanese comics, there's a lot of charm in the old romance comics, I like Takahashi's Maison Ikkoku, and CLAMPS campy stuff like Chobits and xxxHolic have their charms too.

I like the genre awareness of Battle Angel Alita, though I get where Jun gets turned off by the grotesque aspects (at least it's not Gants). I actually kind of like the ultra-violent early 90s stuff like Fist of the North Star. Lone Wolf and Cub is worth a mention for being a major classic of the 70s. I like Tezuka's Buddha series. I think Akira is a mediocre comic, but the anime movie it inspired is a classic.

Mortal also mentioned Berserk, which I followed for years but have mixed feelings about. Good action and it carries on the wandering action hero genre that was a big hit in the 90s, which I like. Running biweekly for 20+ years makes it a daunting series to launch yourself into if you have't been following it for a while though.

I see a lot of critical praise online for Blankets as well as other alternative comic books like American Splendor, Bone, Love and Rockets, Jimmy Corrigan, Ghost World, A Contract With God, or the works of Robert Crumb. Likewise European comics like Epileptic, Persepolis, Heavy Metal, It Was the War of the Trenches, Obscure Cities, and The Incal receive a lot of attention but I can't really comment to that either. My experience has all been in the line of American comics and Japanese Manga.

I read a bit of Maison Ikkoku, but I think like Chobits and some of the other stuff you mention it will largely appeal to a younger female audience. I hadn't ever thought of Battle Angel Alita as grotesque. Sure it's graphic, but the art is some of the best in all of comics history. That goes for Berserk as well. I wouldn't compare either to Fist of the North Star which is just schlocky garbage. I agree that Akira was a better movie but for anyone interested in the movie the manga has more material and can offer insights into that world which the movie does not. Tezuka's Buddha series is a good selection. I've also heard good things about Barefoot Gen. It's interesting that you would recommend the 28 volume Lone Wolf and Cub, which I agree is a classic of the wandering ronin genre, but that you would not suggest Berserk because it is 36 volumes long.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

The thing with the alternative comics being the most well-written and what not, that's good, but when I read comics I just want to shut my brain off completely and be entertained.

[Mr.lucifer]

The thing with the alternative comics being the most well-written and what not, that's good, but when I read comics I just want to shut my brain off completely and be entertained.

I actually think superhero comics are a bit deeper than that.

[Calidore]

Most of my comic buying was from the mid-'80s to the very early '90s, and I favored writing over art, so that's how my list is focused. This was an incredibly good time for comics; they were still relatively cheap, and several independents were putting out high-quality stuff and flourishing (First, Eclipse, Comico, Fantagraphics, etc.).

My comics are currently in storage, so I have to go from memory. Personal favorite runs/series that I own complete include Grimjack, Nexus, Miracleman, Alan Moore and Rick Veitch's runs on Swamp Thing (the early Moore/Bissette/Totleben team especially was just mind-blowingly good), Groo the Wanderer, Alan Grant's run on Batman (especially when Norm Breyfogle was drawing), Mage, Grendel, Whisper, Sandman, Sin City, and I'm sure more that will come to mind after I hit "post."

Manga: The manga boom hit during this period also. First Comics started things off with Lone Wolf and Cub, which I still consider my favorite manga. Akira was decent (especially the spectacular coloring), but the middle act sure is long and slow. (I disagree, however, that the movie was better.) Another favorite is Skyhigh, though I don't know if it's available here.

Strips: Staggeringly good are the entire runs of Milton Caniff's Terry and the Pirates, Mutts, Zits, Calvin & Hobbes, and Far Side, plus 1940s Dick Tracy (though I enjoy pretty much all of it up until the sci-fi debacle of the '60s). I've also been reading Peanuts since I've been reading, and Fantagraphics' complete collections are a dream come true. I'm going to buy every damn one of those and read them all. Honorable mention to Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon and Hal Foster's Prince Valiant for being among the best-drawn strips ever, but unfortunately the artists wrote them as well.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I actually think superhero comics are a bit deeper than that.

Interesting. Maybe you'd like to elaborate?

I agree that not all superheroes are shallow--most aren't, but they aren't particularly deep, either, maybe with exceptions like Batman and various characters from X-Men. Still, much if the emotional tropes are the same for most heroes, like dealing with being the outsider, how to cope with power and how to best use it, etc.

[OrphanPip]

I read a bit of Maison Ikkoku, but I think like Chobits and some of the other stuff you mention it will largely appeal to a younger female audience. I hadn't ever thought of Battle Angel Alita as grotesque. Sure it's graphic, but the art is some of the best in all of comics history. That goes for Berserk as well. I wouldn't compare either to Fist of the North Star which is just schlocky garbage.

I think the comparison is apt. They are essentially the same genre, Alita even has her own named form of martial arts and named "moves" or what have you. They also share that video game inspired plot structure of facing up to series of "boss" adversaries that surface along the way. Alita is more original in its details and much better drawn than Fist of the North Star, but it is definitely in the same genre. How many post-apocalyptic martial arts action comics are there?


I agree that Akira was a better movie but for anyone interested in the movie the manga has more material and can offer insights into that world which the movie does not. Tezuka's Buddha series is a good selection. I've also heard good things about Barefoot Gen. It's interesting that you would recommend the 28 volume Lone Wolf and Cub, which I agree is a classic of the wandering ronin genre, but that you would not suggest Berserk because it is 36 volumes long.

I didn't mean to say one shouldn't read Berserk, I was just musing on it being a bit of a slog, with several parts that aren't quite as good as other parts. I'm just not sold on it being all that brilliant, although a lot of work goes into the artwork.

[Wayfarer32]

I actually learned to read largely on comics when I was a child. I learned to read on Archie, Hagar the Viking, The Wizard of ID, For Better and For Worse, Calvin and Hobbes..and continue to enjoy many comics.

The comics I've read and recommend:

The Hellblazer series (About John Constantine)

V for Vendetta

Fables

The Watchmen

For more comic strips:

Zits is hilarious. It's almost as if the authors can read the teenage mind.

Sally Forth - it looks like a very mundane " adult" comic and then the character Ted talks about world invasions and you realize its really quite unusual

Stone Soup- I have a soft spot for this comic but I find the overall story lines comforting

9 Chickweed Lane - I didn't get into this comic for a long time but it has a great mix of humor and surreal absurdity to be very amusing.

Hellsing


The Walking Dead series (Fair warning, not for the faint of heart)

[Wayfarer32]

Oh yes, another I just recalled:

The Bride of the Water God is beautifully drawn, and written

[JuniperWoolf]

You should check out Sandman, Juniper. I think you'd dig it.

I've been told that, people consistantly suggest either Sandman or Blankets to me. Maybe I'll ask for them for my birthday.


In terms of Japanese comics, there's a lot of charm in the old romance comics, I like Takahashi's Maison Ikkoku, and CLAMPS campy stuff like Chobits and xxxHolic have their charms too.

:p I love CLAMP.