What is your view on Ebooks?

[Kyriakos]

A couple of months ago i was offered to have an e-book made, by a publishing house that mostly releases printed books. However i turned the offer down, politely, because it seems to me that an e-book (more so a greek one) does not seem to be a good move for me.
If i was writing in english i guess an e-book could really help me get through to some readers, who in turn might make me stand in a better position for a future deal of an actual printed book. But in this local market it seems a bit redundant.

I understand one can still have the book printed, if he orders such a copy, but still i am not wanting to associate with this form of the book market, which is why currently i am focusing on getting as many printed magazine work out as possible.

-What is your own view of e-books?
-Is it a move with no inherent negative aspects, to have an e-book published?

[tonywalt]

It is the future-it is not even debatable. What I think about it will not change the inevitable transition from physical books to e-books. The only thing that will keep physical books alive for quite a few decades is the active captive consumer base of older people, who do not read books in E format in any significant percentage.

[Paulclem]

From the bit I've read aout e-books it frees you from needing to find a publisher or agent. You can write your book - or whatever- format it and sell it via Amazon who take a percentage cut. I've read a couple of articles where the author has praised the e-book format and done their own website promotion of it with links to Amazon.

[Emil Miller]

From the bit I've read aout e-books it frees you from needing to find a publisher or agent. You can write your book - or whatever- format it and sell it via Amazon who take a percentage cut. I've read a couple of articles where the author has praised the e-book format and done their own website promotion of it with links to Amazon.

Yes this is true, but you must be prepared to jump through the Amazon/Kindle formatting hoops before getting anywhere. I eventually got stuck on: 'Provide a list of contents.' What the hell does that mean ?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I really don't feel like it, but maybe someone else would be so kind as to link the many threads that have discussed this subject.

[Darcy88]

I was about to launch into a tirade against technology and the way its effacing so many traditional elements of our lives but then I realized the irony of doing so on a laptop computer, while enjoying the convenience of wire-less internet, with my digital camera and mp3 player both right here charging.

sigh* These days its tough to be a luddite without also being a hypocrite.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I was about to launch into a tirade against technology and the way its effacing so many traditional elements of our lives but then I realized the irony of doing so on a laptop computer, while enjoying the convenience of wire-less internet, with my digital camera and mp3 player both right here charging.

sigh* These days its tough to be a luddite without also being a hypocrite.

One can either be a true luddite and love in a secluded cabin, or resign one's self to the Dark Side....

[Darcy88]

One can either be a true luddite and love in a secluded cabin, or resign one's self to the Dark Side....

I only got a cell-phone 6 months ago and I barely use it. I still don't have a face book. But I use computers a lot so as a luddite I'm pretty much a sell-out.

[Paulclem]

I really don't feel like it, but maybe someone else would be so kind as to link the many threads that have discussed this subject.

I think this one is different as it's about publishing your writing with e-books.

[Paulclem]

Yes this is true, but you must be prepared to jump through the Amazon/Kindle formatting hoops before getting anywhere. I eventually got stuck on: 'Provide a list of contents.' What the hell does that mean ?

I haven't tried it, but I did read that you need a good guide. Great if you can get over those hurdles though.

[Emil Miller]

I haven't tried it, but I did read that you need a good guide. Great if you can get over those hurdles though.

You are absolutely right. The system whereby agents and publishers played safe by producing acres of pulp fiction, and even then missing some obvious crowd pullers, will eventually be replaced by self-publishing via Kindle or some other Ebook format. Whilst I regret the pending loss of paper books, it will bring to an end the situation where authors such as Proust, Lawrence, Kipling and many other writers of repute were rejected time and again by those who should have known better.

[JuniperWoolf]

I only got a cell-phone 6 months ago and I barely use it. I still don't have a face book.

I'm big on tech (if you're not jacked in, you're not alive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIZdQf_EPVA)) and I don't have a cellphone. My computer-geekiest friend doesn't have a cellphone or facebook. According to him, we're just "off the grid."

Anywho, I don't like reading off of a glowing white screen, it's basically like staring at a lightbulb for hours at a time. Black-on-white digital text is a huge mistake. That's why I don't read e-books.


The only thing that will keep physical books alive for quite a few decades is the active captive consumer base of older people, who do not read books in E format in any significant percentage.

I doubt it, people of all ages love physical books. Chapters is packed every time I've ever been in there.

[tonywalt]

[QUOTE I doubt it, people of all ages love physical books. Chapters is packed every time I've ever been in there.[/QUOTE]

I know Juniper. I love physical books better myself and I have had a kindle for 2 years. The main advantage is multiple books when I travel - that's a very cool advantage.

I will go as far as buying the physical book, if it is a prized book that I have really been looking forward to reading. It is so much about the look, feel, and ritual of an actual book.

It is unfortunate that our technology has exceeded our humanity, in every way and every day.

[JuniperWoolf]

A computer is a real thing, just like a book. I don't see how computers have affected us negatively, we're just advancing.

[Catamite]

A book is far better but ebooks widen the availability to everyone.

[Paulclem]

Anywho, I don't like reading off of a glowing white screen, it's basically like staring at a lightbulb for hours at a time. Black-on-white digital text is a huge mistake. That's why I don't read e-books.


I don't find it a problem; the e-ink on a Kindle seems just like paper and isn't bright at all. I've got a cold, with the usual tired eyes, but spent the weekend reading my latest e-book without it being different to a paper book. Of course it is probably just personal preference.

I do think we're in a period of transition with the reading tech. If we consider this forum where everyone is pro-books, many have got Kindles, as well as their usual books. Just imagine what the next generation of readers are going to be doing who haven't developed the paper/ cover/smell attachment. Before long there'll be the e-reader version of children's picture books - perhaps in colour - perhaps with animations - perhaps with animations that reward a well read line - perhaps that link to the internet to search out websites of characters with more downloadable stories or other linked ideas. I bet they could do it now.

[JuniperWoolf]

I do think we're in a period of transition with the reading tech. If we consider this forum where everyone is pro-books, many have got Kindles, as well as their usual books. Just imagine what the next generation of readers are going to be doing who haven't developed the paper/ cover/smell attachment. Before long there'll be the e-reader version of children's picture books - perhaps in colour - perhaps with animations - perhaps with animations that reward a well read line - perhaps that link to the internet to search out websites of characters with more downloadable stories or other linked ideas. I bet they could do it now.

Good points.

[Drkshadow03]

The end is upon us! And there shall be much gnashing of teeth.

[Paulclem]

Good points.

Thanks Juniper.

A gnashing of teeth :lol:

But then we did it. Our lot changed it irrevocably. Fom hardly using a computer at all in 1998 except at work - when I first got a computer, I now spend much of my working time on one, and much more time than I do watching TV- (When was the last time there was anything good on?!!).

Mrs paulclem said - when I first bought it - "I'll not be using that, you'd better see to it" - now I have to wait to the late hours to get on it. Now she surfs in bed on the wireless netbook!!!

We are part of the consumer movement that changed the whole aspect of domestic life. When I were a lad there were no mobiles - we didn't get a phone until I was in my teens.

We all looked down on the computer geeks who started on computer courses in colleges in 1980. We were doing academic subjects. How wrong can you be.

[JuniperWoolf]

We are part of the consumer movement that changed the whole aspect of domestic life. When I were a lad there were no mobiles - we didn't get a phone until I was in my teens.

A change of domestic life indeed. I was so unimpressed when my mom got me a cellphone when I was fourteen. "Oh, so you can keep track of me all the time now? Wow, that's really great... oops! It seems I forgot it at school, ah well..."

[MystyrMystyry]

When I view e-books I think cool and modern, but like the quartz/mechanical semi-conflict I know which I prefer. As such they'll co-exist as duel technologies well into the future because some things need to be on paper, like some watches need to be swiss automatics - not necessarily exclusive, just preferable.

I remember when I got my first proper bubble jet printer and thought 'at last I can print off texts!' (Never really happened - not least because the cost of ink and trying to align the settings into book format was a ridiculous WOT)

But hey, e-readers with lots of books on (and now almost proper internet access and audiobook ability in the Kindle Fire)

Do you recall old Walkmans with capacity for but a single album, and then CD Walkmans with the same problem. Just a little headset radio made more sense until the ipod with capability to store an entire album collection, and nowadays itunes access to download more, and video/pictures, and 5.1 versions, and whatever you're in the mood for...

CD's have always felt a bit too much like a product, but some 'innovators' have been resurrecting old vinyl tech to give the full personal twelve inch feel

Sorry, I don't know where I'm going with this - basically it's better to have the choice than be limited by random restrictions. Real books (or even papyrus scrolls if you prefer) should readily co-exist with the latest tech, and many sub-genres, manuals, magazines, brochures, inter-office memos, what-have-you, are even more suited to this latest innovation than the somewhat stodgy paper variant.

A well illustrated book, like say Animalia, can't be translated to Kindle however sophisticated the displays become. I once (it got stolen) had a book of Heironymous Bosch's Garden of Earthly Delights Triptych in detail, each entire page constituting a small section, and no descriptives, explanation, nor even pagination to distract attention.

Here an e-book text to supply background and referencing symbology would have been a nice adjunct I think.

[Calidore]

My issues with e-books are purely practical:

* Format. Paper and type are universal; the myriad incompatible e-formats not so.

* Care in publishing: Typos are impossible to totally eradicate, but in professionally edited paper books they're few and far between. Check the number of e-book reviews on Amazon complaining about massive spelling and punctuation typos. The publishers are apparently simply OCRing and put out with minimal, if any, human intervention. Saves money, I guess.

* Physical books don't require electricity to power up.

* Nobody's ever been mugged on the subway for a real book.

Keeping valuable exceptions like Gutenberg and Sacred Texts (public domain works only with dedicated volunteer proofreaders) in mind, I think e-books in general are more a gadget fad than anything else.

[Paulclem]

gadget fad

I think sales of e-books disprove this, though what we read them on may change.

Physical books don't require electricity to power up.

* Nobody's ever been mugged on the subway for a real book.

You could level the same kind of argument against mobile phones - esecially the newer i phones, but they are a part of life now.

The e-reader is no longer unusual.

[Catamite]

Here's a recent article where Jonathan Franzen moans about e-books: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/30/jonathan-franzen-ebooks-values

He says that real lovers of literature will always prefer books, which to some extent I think true. I think there's a bit of a bibliophile in every lover of literature who enjoys shelfs packed with books, each with with story behind it...my kindle has allowed to me read way more because I don't have to spend as much money on books, but a physical book still more satisfying.

[Kyriakos]

But what about it being a sound (or not) move to have work published the electronic way?

I still think i should only aim for printed publication :)

[Emil Miller]

But what about it being a sound (or not) move to have work published the electronic way?

I still think i should only aim for printed publication :)

The question here is what is your prime motivation in writing. Is it to make as much money as you can or do you want to impart your ideas/experience to potential readers? In the former case, Ebooks will probably outsell paper books. Of course, it's nice when a publisher sends you a 1/2 dozen copies of your work but these are usually quickly dispersed among personal contacts.
I still have a hardback copy of my first book left over from those that I originally had printed privately, but the book was given some correction before it was published in paperback. Therefore, I do not have an up to date copy, but if I'd had it published as an Ebook, I would be able to have it retained indefinitely on Kindle.

[Kyriakos]

I have some printed publications (2) and some more electronic ones. While i am not claiming that having electronic publications is useless, personally i do not follow the e-books almost at all, and also given that i write in Greek the market for e-books in this language is quite small.
I have read of people becoming known from e-books, but they wrote in english. Besides, if one wants to find my work electronically he can just search the web, in that respect again i do not see any privilege in having e-books out (in my case)

[Emil Miller]

I have some printed publications (2) and some more electronic ones. While i am not claiming that having electronic publications is useless, personally i do not follow the e-books almost at all, and also given that i write in Greek the market for e-books in this language is quite small.
I have read of people becoming known from e-books, but they wrote in english. Besides, if one wants to find my work electronically he can just search the web, in that respect again i do not see any privilege in having e-books out (in my case)

Writing in a demographically restricted language must also restrict the sales potential unless it is successfully translated into a major one. If I were writing in such circumstances, I would probably go for the paper option whilst realising that in due course, it will almost certainly go into electronic format as paper dies away. That is, of course, if it lasts long enough to go into reprint.

[Kyriakos]

I disagree. I doubt paper will ever die out. The feel of books is an experience of its own worth. Surely searching for a quote or phrase electronically is a lot more practical, but nothing compares to having an actual material library of books.
And why would it not last long enough? Your final sentence can be read a bit like spleen :)

[Emil Miller]

I disagree. I doubt paper will ever die out. The feel of books is an experience of its own worth. Surely searching for a quote or phrase electronically is a lot more practical, but nothing compares to having an actual material library of books.
And why would it not last long enough? Your final sentence can be read a bit like spleen :)

I agree that the tactile response from holding a book is something that an Ebook is unable to match but, as Paulclem has already explained, future generations who have grown up with them will not have had that experience and will not miss it. The demise of the paper book isn't imminent but it has already started. My home is furnished with cases full of books and I prefer it that way but I'm also a realist who has seen many technical advances replace existing norms over the years. I apologise if my last sentence seemed a criticism. What I meant was that many, if not most, books do not go into reprint, whereas some go into many. It's quite possible that yours may also go on being printed.

[Paulclem]

Here's a recent article where Jonathan Franzen moans about e-books: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/30/jonathan-franzen-ebooks-values

He says that real lovers of literature will always prefer books, which to some extent I think true. I think there's a bit of a bibliophile in every lover of literature who enjoys shelfs packed with books, each with with story behind it...my kindle has allowed to me read way more because I don't have to spend as much money on books, but a physical book still more satisfying.

I don't really get what Franzen is talking about.

For serious readers, Franzen said, "a sense of permanence has always been part of the experience". "Everything else in your life is fluid, but here is this text that doesn't change,"

This is his subjective view of things, The fact that he can keep his hold of his books in so called permanent libraries is not my experience. I have a small house and so most of the books I read have to go into the local charity shops. But then what is permanent about a book? You could argue that books are as susceptible to fire, flood and theft as a Kindle. The difference here is that if my Kindle goes belly up, I can still access my books from my Amazon account. He'd have to re-buy his stock. So which is the most permanent?

The fact that he has to disconnect himself from his gadgets is his way of writing. I'm sure many others wouldn't need to do that.

He then goes on to blather on about political instability etc as if that has anything to do with e-books. He should stick to fiction, which he, according to the article, can continue to publish as an e-book.

[Calidore]

gadget fad

I think sales of e-books disprove this, though what we read them on may change.

I don't think sales measure fadness, longetivity does. We'll see.




Physical books don't require electricity to power up.

* Nobody's ever been mugged on the subway for a real book.

You could level the same kind of argument against mobile phones - esecially the newer i phones, but they are a part of life now.


Mobile phones aren't the same thing at all. Land lines are fixed to a location. Mobile phones offer tremendous convenience in conversing anywhere, anytime. Plus, who only uses their cell phone to talk? They can take pictures and use the internet.

E-book readers AFAIK are good for one thing: reading books that in their original form are usually smaller and lighter than the e-reader (and LOTS cheaper).

[Calidore]

The demise of the paper book isn't imminent but it has already started.

They said that about television and movies when VCRs came out and allowed people to tape and save.

[Emil Miller]

They said that about television and movies when VCRs came out and allowed people to tape and save.

Yes but more and more people are using the TV as a medium for watching DVDs. I have a drawer full of VCRs that I seldom watch simply because I've given up on TV and prefer to watch DVDs on my computer. Most films nowadays go onto DVD so it isn't necessary to watch them in a cinema although
I agree that it's better to watch them in a theatre than on a television or computer screen.

[Paulclem]

E-book readers AFAIK are good for one thing: reading books that in their original form are usually smaller and lighter than the e-reader (and LOTS cheaper).

Perhaps the phone wasn't a good analogy.

You're criticising e-readers and writing responses in acronyms/ netlingo/internet slang?

Anyway, my e-reader is light. I don't get any wrist ache in bed with it at all. No, the e-books are cheaper than the paper versions, with free stuff, and it downloads what I want in under 60 seconds.

I reckon the 28 books I read last year may have cost me £230 at about £8 or £9 pound a book. If I buy the same and save about 40%, I've already covered the cost n the first year.

I will have bought some in charity shops, or in sales, and so the figure is a bit inflated, though the hardbacks I couldn't wait to come out in paperback will have been more expensive.

Having said that, I'm more tempted to download free classics onto the e-reader, so I may save even more.

Then there are all the other advantages of having it, and the book option too. (I haven't stopped reading those, and don't expect to either).

[JuniperWoolf]

Radios are still around too, even though we have tv. People love the nostaliga of radio and it's often more convenient so there will always be a market for it. Sound familiar?


I reckon the 28 books I read last year may have cost me £230 at about £8 or £9 pound a book. If I buy the same and save about 40%, I've already covered the cost n the first year.

But you could have read them for free at a library. I'll be honest: I can't afford an e-reader. If e-readers killed books, it would be bad for people with academic interests and a low income (or, as in my case, a high cost of education).

[Paulclem]

Radios are still around too, even though we have tv. People love the nostaliga of radio and it's often more convenient so there will always be a market for it. Sound familiar?



But you could have read them for free at a library. I'll be honest: I can't afford an e-reader. If e-readers killed books, it would be bad for people with academic interests and a low income (or, as in my case, a high cost of education).

True, radios are still about - and gramophones. Books aren't going to go. I confess mine was a present. I still use the library too, but the ones near us don't always have the books I want, which is where Amazon has come in.

I agree about the prohibitive cost for students, though the price has come down from £140 to £89 here. It depends on what you are studying too. I'm doing maths at the moment and I need the books with the diagrams, graphs etc. A student of literature would perhaps benefit from the amount of free classics available, though in the sciences it would be less useful.

Viewed as part of an investment, assuming the book format is suitable, it might be a good investment for a student considering the savings over the years. There are the libraries though, as you say.

My lad is considering getting one to take abroad when he goes for his year in Japan. He can load it with all the suitable books he needs/ wants to read for the 9 months. It would save on the weight.

I think it will become an option for people, and cheaper in time.

[tanchen]

i really like ebooks. i got myself a kindle keyboard and it's great for reading! plain books are even better of course!

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[tonywalt]

Nobody's ever been mugged on the subway for a real book.


This made me laugh. Hmmm, muggers looking for a book - I am just trying to picture such a scenario. There is a brilliant Chris Rock skit that he only did in which he advises to always hide your money in a book.