Critique

[Hawkman]

Reticulated pseudo prose
so monumentally comatose
yawn provoking
life revoking
depressingly unkempt
hardly worth the effort spent
to write it down.
Some barely literate clown
seriously expects
respect?
I think he’ll be quite disappointed.
Not with accolades anointed
no cheers from peers
although there might be jeers.
Those weak enough to think it food for thought
should know that their opinions count for naught.

We whose job it is to read
evaluate and deconstruct at need
will tell you if it’s good or not
and highlight what is not so hot
and if we choose, we’ll shape emerging talent
though our language won’t be gallant.
Tears whet the stone
where talent's honed.
What can’t destroy you only makes you stronger
and we’ll plague you with advice for longer
than perhaps you’d like.
If you can't abide it - take a hike.
But you really shouldn't turn and run away
just grin and bear it while we have our say.
Listen to teacher
Signed Friedrich Nietzsche.

[hillwalker]

As good a reason as any for quitting LitNet... given the way it's getting taken over by trolls.

I think the metre of the closing line might have been improved had you signed off with

'Freddie Nietzsche'

H

[Hawkman]

Yes I agree, it wasn't quite right, but Freddie wasn't really in keeping either. I also tweaked the repetition of like, which should not have escaped the proofing process ;)

I suppose the trolls have been encouraged by the publicity they've received from the new film, 'Trollhunter' :D

Live and be well - H

[Pendragon]

As a person with innumerable rejection slips, I can relate to this poem. In actual submission of poetry to magazines, anyone who took this kind of time to write a rejection slip I'd consider a friend. I usually get a small scrap of paper with one word: "No", "Rejected", or "Sorry". Not to mention the profanity laden slip I got when I caught one editor not even unfolding the poems. (I suspected this, and so sent a sheaf of poems with all four corners tacked together with tiny spots of glue. It came back undisturbed)

Nice use of Rhyme. I like it!

[Delta40]

S1 had a much nicer flow however the message was very clear throughout Frieddy!

Pendragon I'm amazed there are editor's that reject without even bothering to read!

[AuntShecky]

As a person with innumerable rejection slips, I can relate to this poem. In actual submission of poetry to magazines, anyone who took this kind of time to write a rejection slip I'd consider a friend. I usually get a small scrap of paper with one word: "No", "Rejected", or "Sorry". Not to mention the profanity laden slip I got when I caught one editor not even unfolding the poems. (I suspected this, and so sent a sheaf of poems with all four corners tacked together with tiny spots of glue. It came back undisturbed)



Years ago I read some article entitled "Top Ten Editors Reveal their Secrets"
or something like that. One of the eds stated he (or she) used to get mss with little tricks like the one you described. One time he saw a long hair purposely arranged between two pages. He said that he actually did read the whole ms, but then he painstaking replaced the hair exactly where it was.

Also, I suspect Delta's comment was ironic, but yes, it's true that some editors don't read unsolicited manuscripts; all they do is clip on a rejection slip, put it in the S.A.S.E. and send it back whence it came.

Most editors, though, read the first couple of paragraphs at least. By then they can tell whether it's good or not, or whether the "material suits their needs."

And Hawk-- don't want your cute poem to get lost in the sauce. I thought it might be a description of those of our LitNutters who can't resist commenting/criticizing on works posted by others. I thought it was witty, all the way through till I came to the last line. What the h-- is Neitzsche doing there?

[Hawkman]

pendragon: Very kind of you to appreciate and even like this tongue in cheek rant.

Delta: I agree that the first part is punchier.

Auntie: Glad you enjoyed it too. We Ubermensch should stick together - LOL. You will have to agree that by embarking on a critique there is an assumption, on the part of the critic, of superior knowledge or ability. (this may, or may not, be justified - lol) Thus the critic places him/herself above, or over (uber in German) those that he/she criticises. The Ubermenshe was a Nietzschian concept, and I have refererenced a Nietzschian quote, 'That which does not destroy us, makes us stronger.' So that's the reason Nietzsche got to sign the piece.

Live and be well - H

[Haunted]

The last line cracked me up, the ultimate payoff, Hawk-style. I'd have preferred the abyss metaphor, it'se meaner :D Anyhoo I have been on both sides of the equation. Signed, Uberfreulein (sp)

[Hawkman]

Uberfraulein - mmmm, the ultimate predator, doubtless consumes her partners after mating - lol. I now have visions of you prowling the streets of New York preying upon helpless men - lol. As with all gifts, criticism is better to give than to recieve - :D

Thanks for reading

Live and be well - H

[DieterM]

Had a good laugh with this one, Hawk! I don't know if criticism is better to give than to recieve, though. I always like constructive criticism (as offered by several LitNutters, as Auntie would say) because it shows me the weak spots I feel but cannot really see (like a huge pimple in my back). On the other hand, I'm ghastly with criticising; I don't seem to be able to go any further than saying "Like it/don't like it", see? And I sometimes spot technicalities (as in "Überfräulein", which has been spelled wrong twice in this thread - you see what I mean? Details nobody cares about...) The reason I come back to this special place here is I seem to be able to ignore the trolls and appreciate the gemstone criticists ;-)

[Hawkman]

Hi Dieter, and thanks for reading and enjoying. Ooops! 'fraid I can't get the accents without typing it in Word first though - lol. Put my general misspelling down to being a lousy typist. I actually looked the word up in my German dictionary - lol. So I do care, honest!

Getting criticism all well and dandy - providing it's right :D Always happy to hear from Dieter.

Cheers - H

[PrinceMyshkin]

Even among this feast and graceful rhyming, some lines stand out:


Tears whet the stone
where talent's honed...
and, of course the concluding:

Listen to teacher
Signed Friedrich Nietzsche.

Flipping marvellous! Thank you.

[Hawkman]

Noble Prince, we thank you for casting an eye upon our efforts, and that they should please you pleases us inordinantly. Most gratified to have given you cause to flip as you marvelled, so you are most welcome. :D

Live long and prosper - H

[Haunted]

Uberfraulein - mmmm, the ultimate predator, doubtless consumes her partners after mating - lol. I now have visions of you prowling the streets of New York preying upon helpless men - lol. As with all gifts, criticism is better to give than to recieve - :D

Wait a New York minute, I think you've mistaken Überfraulein as Madame Über. I'm just a hardcore writer of poetry :smilielol5:.

[aliengirl]

What can’t destroy you only makes you stronger
and we’ll plague you with advice for longer

:lol: :smilielol5:


But you really shouldn't turn and run away
just grin and bear it while we have our say.
Listen to teacher
Signed Friedrich Nietzsche.


Well, I always listen to you. :p This one really made my day.

[JuniperWoolf]

Oho, snap! I liked it, it has a great rap-like flow which is pleasant on the tongue. I tripped over the last two lines and didn't like them at first, but they became more poignant the second time around. Still, I find that the last two lines are somewhat distracting, the metre is a bit off. Also, perhaps changing it to "Freddie" would be a good idea; although it wouldn't do anything for the metre it would certainly be more in keeping with the tone.

[Hawkman]

Ripley: Thanks so much for dropping by ;) glad to have given you a giggle :D

JW: Rap? God! I hope not.... It's not so much that the metre is off in the last two lines, rather that the penultimate one is a little abrupt. It could be softened by the addition of, "You should..." before the listen. However, this dimishes the impact. 'Freddie' would most certainly not be a good idea or more in keeping. The authoritarian tone does not sit well with a familiar contraction of the name.

Still, thanks for reading and for enjoying.

Live and be well - H

[JuniperWoolf]

Rap? God! I hope not....

Bah! Too many people have this inane prejudice against rap as a medium. It's a shame, they're missing out on a lot of good stuff which they could use to their benefit.


It's not so much that the metre is off in the last two lines, rather that the penultimate one is a little abrupt.

Fair enough, I guess the underlying structure of a free-verse poem is whatever you say it is so talking about "metre" is a bit redundant.


It could be softened by the addition of, "You should..." before the listen. However, this dimishes the impact.

Right, I was trying to conceptualize ways that you could elongate S2L15 when I first read it, but it was all inessential fluff, filler phrases, and that's no good.


'Freddie' would most certainly not be a good idea or more in keeping. The authoritarian tone does not sit well with a familiar contraction of the name.


Authoritarian certainly, but also modern and somewhat smarmy. The language used in this poem wouldn't fit in the late nineteenth century, so using a modern, informal name would balance out your quite formal allusion and make it sound less tagged-on, plus it would add a nice tongue-in-cheek element. However, I prefer the strong consonants in "Friedrich" as a sign-off, and also it's your poem and not Hill's so do what you like.

[Jerrybaldy]

As a useless critic I would just like to agree with all complimentary critics above and say (as a fellow sufferer of Dieters like it/don't like it syndrome) that I like it.
Cheers Mr H

[Hawkman]

JW: I wouldn't say the tone is "smarmy". It's more in keeping with Brian Sewell's fruity diction.

Having come late to this thread you have taken hill's remark out of context. Originally the last line read, "Signed Nietzsche." Hill was quite right to observe that for balance it needed a little more. He suggested Freddie, and I elected to use the proper given name, for the reason previously stated.

JB: once again thanks are in order for your having taken the time to read one of my poems, and, having enjoyed it, being gratious enough to let me know you did. So many thanks for that :)

Live and be well - H