Books about pre-Christian ritual?

[JuniperWoolf]

I'm trying to find books about religion, and particularly the practices and rituals, from pre-Christian Europe. Since the pre-Christian religions were "reclaimed" by hippies I've been having a very difficult time finding anything specifically regarding the ritual and practices which isn't new age crap. I'm looking for something like my classics theology textbook, something accurate and scholarly. Does anybody have any good suggestions?

[Darcy88]

http://www.amazon.ca/Greek-Religion-Walter-Burkert/dp/0674362810

It can be tedious at times, but its thorough, crammed full of detail, and was recommended to me by a classics professor.

[cafolini]

I'm trying to find books about religion, and particularly the practices and rituals, from pre-Christian Europe. Since the pre-Christian religions were "reclaimed" by hippies I've been having a very difficult time finding anything specifically regarding the ritual and practices which isn't new age crap. I'm looking for something like my classics theology textbook, something accurate and scholarly. Does anybody have any good suggestions?

Up to well passed the rennaissance all works were on commission. Legends were pounded on the people until they became reality and acquired their historical airs. Actually that's what scholarly meant up to the 19th century.
What you are looking for never occurred.
Aristotle, for example, was commissioned by the gang of Phillip and Alexander. Plato was commissioned by the Tyrant of Siracuse and his uncle Dion. Etc., etc., etc.

[Varenne Rodin]

There were books, Caf. A lot of them were seized and burned.

[YesNo]

I think Joseph Campbell's books, such as Hero with a Thousand Faces, might be relevant and scholarly on this topic, but I haven't read anything by him in some time and when I did read it I don't think I understood it. However, this is basically about studying general patterns in world mythologies. I think such a book may be more useful to a writer working on a novel.

Since you are interested in the practice of pre-Christian religions you might turn to the Upanishads from India which is too old to be new age, but probably includes the best of what pre-Christian religions were interested in. Eknath Easwaran has a translation that I've enjoyed.

To get a feel for what people might have practiced in the past again you might look at India today. I found Stephen Huyler's Meeting God to be an interesting book on current Hindu practice. It might provide a clue to what was done in Europe in the past.

[Charles Darnay]

This is similar to the one Darcy posted: http://www.amazon.ca/Ancient-Greek-Religion-Roman-Empire/dp/1444314289/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326211750&sr=8-1

IF you are looking for something Celtic that is free of the New Age revisions, there is something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Celtic-Rituals-Authentic-Ancient-Spirituality/dp/1902012186/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211922&sr=1-1-catcorr

[B. Laumness]

This book is very informative and not too difficult:

The Ancient City (http://www.amazon.ca/Ancient-City-Religion-Institutions-Coulanges/dp/1425558860/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211548&sr=1-3) by Fustel de Coulanges (I remember I read it two times...)

I'd also suggest:

A History of Religious Ideas (http://www.amazon.ca/History-Religious-Ideas-Eleusinian-Mysteries/dp/0226204014/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211831&sr=1-1) and The Myth of the Eternal Return (http://www.amazon.ca/Myth-Eternal-Return-Cosmos-History/dp/0691123500/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211831&sr=1-8) by Mircea Eliade
Violence and the Sacred (http://www.amazon.ca/Violence-Sacred-Ren%C3%A9-Girard/dp/0801822181/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211660&sr=1-2) by René Girard

[MANICHAEAN]

Have you tried "Pagans and Christians" by Robin Lane Fox which covers the Mediterranean world from the second century AD to the conversion of Constantine.
M.

[JuniperWoolf]

http://www.amazon.ca/Greek-Religion-Walter-Burkert/dp/0674362810

It can be tedious at times, but its thorough, crammed full of detail, and was recommended to me by a classics professor.


This is similar to the one Darcy posted: http://www.amazon.ca/Ancient-Greek-Religion-Roman-Empire/dp/1444314289/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326211750&sr=8-1

IF you are looking for something Celtic that is free of the New Age revisions, there is something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Celtic-Rituals-Authentic-Ancient-Spirituality/dp/1902012186/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211922&sr=1-1-catcorr


This book is very informative and not too difficult:

The Ancient City (http://www.amazon.ca/Ancient-City-Religion-Institutions-Coulanges/dp/1425558860/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211548&sr=1-3) by Fustel de Coulanges (I remember I read it two times...)

I'd also suggest:

A History of Religious Ideas (http://www.amazon.ca/History-Religious-Ideas-Eleusinian-Mysteries/dp/0226204014/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211831&sr=1-1) and The Myth of the Eternal Return (http://www.amazon.ca/Myth-Eternal-Return-Cosmos-History/dp/0691123500/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211831&sr=1-8) by Mircea Eliade
Violence and the Sacred (http://www.amazon.ca/Violence-Sacred-Ren%C3%A9-Girard/dp/0801822181/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326211660&sr=1-2) by René Girard

These are exactly the kinds of books I'm looking for, thanks guys. I should ask Lokasenna about books concerning old Norse rituals (if they had any - I'm not even sure they did).

[cafolini]

There were books, Caf. A lot of them were seized and burned.

Of course. But they were all on commission. He who managed to produce the best legend and institute it was the winner of an empire. It was very very expensive, not only to write. What about distribution and being able to influence people.
Hey, of course there were burnings. What does that prove?

[Varenne Rodin]

You said the things she was looking for never existed. That's not entirely true. Minor correction.

[BienvenuJDC]

Of course. But they were all on commission. He who managed to produce the best legend and institute it was the winner of an empire. It was very very expensive, not only to write. What about distribution and being able to influence people.
Hey, of course there were burnings. What does that prove?

I don't think that books were really distributed much until Gutenberg came around. They were had written and paper (or the paper of each era) was a valuable commodity. Most information was passed in song and stories verbally. The pre-Christian era was in a time that writing was in its infancy.

[Des Essientes]

Get yourself Robert Graves' books 'The Greek Myths' and 'The White Goddess' the knowledge of pre-Christian rituals contained therein is vast.

[BienvenuJDC]

Get yourself Robert Graves' books 'The Greek Myths' and 'The White Goddess' the knowledge of pre-Christian rituals contained therein is vast.

How much influence did the Greeks have on northern Europe at that time? I know that the influence was considerable in later times. I'll check for those books in my library as well.

[JuniperWoolf]

Up to well passed the rennaissance all works were on commission. Legends were pounded on the people until they became reality and acquired their historical airs. Actually that's what scholarly meant up to the 19th century.
What you are looking for never occurred.
Aristotle, for example, was commissioned by the gang of Phillip and Alexander. Plato was commissioned by the Tyrant of Siracuse and his uncle Dion. Etc., etc., etc.


I don't think that books were really distributed much until Gutenberg came around. They were had written and paper (or the paper of each era) was a valuable commodity. Most information was passed in song and stories verbally. The pre-Christian era was in a time that writing was in its infancy.

An anthropologist can gather information about ancient religious practice via other means than direct ancient written text. Art for example, pottery or artifacts like tools used during funeral rites or other ceremonies. Of course, they might occasionally be so lucky as to find ancient text (in Egypt, for an obvious example) or maybe even an old prayer slab to Dionysus or someone, like those found throughout Europe asking the gods for help in their day to day lives, and they will deduce from this information what they can. Those anthropologists, archaeologists and specialists will then compile their information, and books will be written.

[cafolini]

An anthropologist can gather information about ancient religious practice via other means than direct ancient written text. Art for example, pottery or artifacts like tools used during funeral rites or other ceremonies. Of course, they might occasionally be so lucky as to find ancient text (in Egypt, for an obvious example) or maybe even an old prayer slab to Dionysus or someone, like those found throughout Europe asking the gods for help in their day to day lives, and they will deduce from this information what they can. Those anthropologists, archaeologists and specialists will then compile their information, and books will be written.

That's correct. But that didn't happen without bias until the 20th century, and as such with much confusion. But it is precisely that research that would confirm what I said before.

[JuniperWoolf]

That's correct. But that didn't happen without bias until the 20th century, and as such with much confusion.

Luckily I'm not asking for books written before the 20th century. When it comes to modern advances in archaeology and anthropology anything older than a couple centuries is a bit outdated, if you don't mind my saying so.

[BienvenuJDC]

That's correct. But that didn't happen without bias until the 20th century, and as such with much confusion. But it is precisely that research that would confirm what I said before.

What would make you think that our generation is any less biased than any other?

[JuniperWoolf]

Exclamation! If this turns into another "the world is 8000 years old, science is stupid" threads I swear on my life I'll nag Schere until she closes it and I will open a brand new one. I'm trying to get reading recommendations, not bored to death.

[BienvenuJDC]

Exclamation! If this turns into another "the world is 8000 years old, science is stupid" threads I swear on my life I'll nag Schere until she closes it and I will open a brand new one. I'm trying to get reading recommendations, not bored to death.

Calm down...no one is taking it there. I think that you have a wonderful question. I'd love to know more about the cultures that the Catholic church destroyed myself. I'm no fan of the things that the Catholic church did in the name of Christianity either. The Christmas tree is no more Christian than the mistletoe. And who actually built Stonehenge, more importantly...how? I saw a very interesting show on how they might have moved the stones into their location. It is quite fascinating.

[Charles Darnay]

I second an earlier recommendation by Des Essientes for "The White Goddess". While is not exactly what you are looking for (a scholarly texts about the history and rituals of pre-Christian religions) it is a wonderful exploration about the poetry and myth that came out of these religions.

[Charles Darnay]

Calm down...no one is taking it there. I think that you have a wonderful question. I'd love to know more about the cultures that the Catholic church destroyed myself. I'm no fan of the things that the Catholic church did in the name of Christianity either. The Christmas tree is no more Christian than the mistletoe. And who actually built Stonehenge, more importantly...how? I saw a very interesting show on how they might have moved the stones into their location. It is quite fascinating.

There's always this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiFq_nk8pE0

[MystyrMystyry]

And it would be anthropological and sociological interpretation.

Just like the Ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians had their main religion, but also tolerated the concurrent mystery religions and occasionally incorporated them, different tribal groups would have had their own practises. The cave paintings prior to the first Iceage mostly seem to worship the animals they hunted, and as farming and small civilisations developed after the second Iceage different variations like the household Gods, Demeter (and Ceres) for the harvest etc appeared and grew in importance as trade grew.

I saw a television show about X-ray mapping of the area surrounding Stonehenge, and it would seem there were wooden dwellings sufficient to house about 10 000 people, which is quite a large amount. Now it is figured that its construction at the end of the last Iceage indicates its purpose to be the centre of fertility rites, where Celts from across Europe flocked in the Summer solstice for a huge love-in: one big ancient hippy Woodstock for pairing off and repopulating.

Can't remember the exact name of the program however.

The Norse Gods appeared much later and grew in significance as Viking colonies, trade and war grew. You probably already knew that.

[BienvenuJDC]

And it would be anthropological and sociological interpretation.

Just like the Ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians had their main religion, but also tolerated the concurrent mystery religions and occasionally incorporated them, different tribal groups would have had their own practises. The cave paintings prior to the first Iceage mostly seem to worship the animals they hunted, and as farming and small civilisations developed after the second Iceage different variations like the household Gods, Demeter (and Ceres) for the harvest etc appeared and grew in importance as trade grew.

I saw a television show about X-ray mapping of the area surrounding Stonehenge, and it would seem there were wooden dwellings sufficient to house about 10 000 people, which is quite a large amount. Now it is figured that its construction at the end of the last Iceage indicates its purpose to be the centre of fertility rites, where Celts from across Europe flocked in the Summer solstice for a huge love-in: one big ancient hippy Woodstock for pairing off and repopulating.

Can't remember the exact name of the program however.

The Norse Gods appeared much later and grew in significance as Viking colonies, trade and war grew. You probably already knew that.

In all actuality, their technology probably wasn't near as primitive as we think. Stonehenge was probably the base support for a huge stage for jazz concerts and such.
:party:

[Drkshadow03]

I'm trying to find books about religion, and particularly the practices and rituals, from pre-Christian Europe. Since the pre-Christian religions were "reclaimed" by hippies I've been having a very difficult time finding anything specifically regarding the ritual and practices which isn't new age crap. I'm looking for something like my classics theology textbook, something accurate and scholarly. Does anybody have any good suggestions?

Which part of pre-Christian Europe? My guess is there won't be a textbook that will discuss the rituals of pre-Christian religions in a single source, but you should be able to find scholarly books on Ancient Greek religious practices, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Roman, Ancient British Isles, Ancient Norse, etc. if you approach each topic separately.

My advice would be to go onto wikipedia, find sections in different articles that seem like genuine scholarly discussion/claims, then follow the sources to the footnotes at the bottom to see where the information comes from. Then find the book or source footnoted on Amazon, if you judge the book scholarly (written by Ph. D in the subject, published by an academic press, etc.) get those books.

[KCurtis]

Since the pre-Christian religions were "reclaimed" by hippies I've been having a very difficult time finding anything specifically regarding the ritual and practices which isn't new age crap.

:rofl: Good one

[Whifflingpin]

"The Golden Bough" by Frazer is a good starting point (or at least an abridged version - I think you can get a 1 volume digest.) Some of the theories and opinions in the book are now rejected, but it is still the book that the others are measured against.

[Dark Muse]

I took a cultural anthropology class and the book we read for that class you might find interesting. It was called Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion: An Anthropological Study of the Supernatural. (I have the 5th Edition)

It is a collection of essays and articles exploring practices and beleifs from a variety different cultures.

[JuniperWoolf]

Which part of pre-Christian Europe? My guess is there won't be a textbook that will discuss the rituals of pre-Christian religions in a single source, but you should be able to find scholarly books on Ancient Greek religious practices, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Roman, Ancient British Isles, Ancient Norse, etc. if you approach each topic separately.

Exactly, I'm looking for multiple books from all over the place. Greek, Roman, the Germanic countries, Britannia, even old Eastern European folk superstition. I've been able to find maybe a half dozen good ones on my own, and I can find books on mythology by the hundreds, but when it comes to the specific religious practices what keeps popping up are books on "worshipping the great horned goddess and embracing your menstrual cycle" or whatever.

I've tried following footnotes, but it takes forever and most of what I dug up were tomes of information about the culture in general in which a slice discusses the religious practices, or little articles. I often can't even find them, many of the articles don't seem to be on the internet. I might be able to find some nice little hardcopies from the classics faculty at school, but I'm not there right now.


"The Golden Bough" by Frazer is a good starting point (or at least an abridged version - I think you can get a 1 volume digest.) Some of the theories and opinions in the book are now rejected, but it is still the book that the others are measured against.

:yesnod: That's the book that got me into all this stuff in the first place.


I took a cultural anthropology class and the book we read for that class you might find interesting. It was called Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion: An Anthropological Study of the Supernatural. (I have the 5th Edition)

It is a collection of essays and articles exploring practices and beleifs from a variety different cultures.

This one (http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Witchcraft-Religion-Anthropological-Supernatural/dp/tags-on-product/B0030WTEM0), yeah? Looks perfect, thanks.

[Dark Muse]

This is the one I actually have: http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Witchcra...6257786&sr=1-3

But the one you posted looks like it is just a different edition of the same thing.

[Climacus]

Jane Ellen Harrison's Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion (http://www.amazon.com/Prolegomena-Study-Greek-Religion-Mythos/dp/0691015147/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326258277&sr=1-1) is a classic. Anything by W.K.C. Guthrie is worthy too, though he tends to focus on philosophy. (His six-plus volume history of Greek philosophy hasn't been bettered.)