MystyrMystyry's Ultra Fascinating Cheap Watch Thread

[MystyrMystyry]

Firstly I shall begin with the age-old question, what is time? This has been puzzling old people for ages apparently, so I'll answer it succinctly:

Time is the Fourth Dimension, no more, no less, so let's just get on with it shall we?

Please note that while some may claim time to be an illusion (and lunch time doubly so), remember that it all depends upon how you spend it and how long you make it.

I find it is generally a good practice to begin lunch time about breakfast time and finish it around dinner time so that it doesn't overlap with supper time - this works for me.

But it is how we spend our time that shall preoccupy us here, and of the ways that we choose to fritter and waste it in offhand ways.

I'll raise my hand to that for I seem to be one of the main champions when it comes to frittering.

And as I do so my wrist shall be adorned with an imaginary Swiss-made automatic of highest quality sprinkled with starlight as I guide you through the wonders of letting watches collect you.

Yes, you read that right. Watches actually collect us rather than, as so often believed, we them.

I remember fondly the first watch I ever purchased, and still possess - though it would of course disagree with precisely who owns whom this is neither here nor there. It was I did the procuring thus the tenses are intact. Anyway it was/is an early Casio f-12, and was already early when I bought it in a flea market for exactly a dollar.

As it had no band I guess I could say it was a solo performer, but it kept time better than Ringo - so well in fact that I honestly had no need (very few folks actually need a watch in the first place, but that's another story) for a new (or indeed, used) watch until the battery faded about ten years later, and a replacement proved particularly difficult to locate. Pulling it from my pocket and giving it a slight squeeze would bring the digits fleetingly back to life, as the correct time was still miraculously displayed for another five years (for the accountants amongst us this makes it fifteen in total).

At this point you may be scratching your head quite vigorously and wondering that surely the point of a dollar watch is that if the battery departs, just get a new watch. Well yes and no, because then that would remove the fun quotient of the quest. Also this particular gentleman has taken on a 'sentimental' quality, having been a companion for so many years, even whilst wearing a more sophisticated machine, I was ever with it like a set of keys.

At the time of writing there exists approximately 17 trillion trillion watches in various stages of usefulness, disrepair and 'collectibility' - why should I be so determined to see the f-12 functioning again?

Because it's small, light, supremely accurate, and so thin it can fit in the tightest jeans pocket. It was the watch I used (and shall use again) to mark other watches' time-keeping against.

It has a scratched acrylic case and crystal (bit of a seeming contradiction that, clear plastic being called a crystal), which could be buffed out were I so inclined, but I actually like the look of the war wounds (and also because I'm not inclined - I mean honestly, it's only going to get scratched again).


So there you have it. Tomorrow I'll be looking with more depth at its marvelous water resistance, and take a peek at some of the more unusual watches that have collected me along the way.

[prendrelemick]

MM, I can't believe how exactly my horological preferences and experiences match yours.
I too had a cheap Casio-type watch, the only watch I ever owned that could stand up to the rigours of the working day. It was scratched and scuffed, its sharp edges became rounded and smooth, it out-lasted 7 or 8 homemade straps. It was still going strong 10 years later, when I lost it.

[MystyrMystyry]

This is indeed a loss Pren. Have you searched the specialty sites for a similar brand/model?

I too have lost watches over the years, most notably a gift in the form of a gold Citizen, which went to a taxi driver as forfeit when he inexplicably (and despicably!) neglected to show up the next day to relinquish it for his fare. Lesson learnt: always keep some spare cash hidden near the front door.

The Casio circa '84, when the f-12 was introduced, didn't have a policy of toughness testing, which grew accidentally/evolutionarily from strange people observing that the little marvels displayed amazing hardiness against the unnatural forces of boot grinding, hammer smashing, door squishing etc etc which would quickly destroy a mechanical, so this particular is of fairly solid build, even without being G-Shocked.

Now the mark of a good diver is its ability to withstand extreme pressures hundreds of metres beneath the ocean, the f-12 I wouldn't trust to the nearest jetty's base-pole, though there's no reason why it couldn't go deeper, just no official indication that there's any water resistance at all.

The thing is however, that items kept in pockets will inevitably wind up in the washing machine (Murphy's 101). This particular has survived countless full cycles without a hint of condensation appearing - that's what I call practical water resistance where it matters!

From a design perspective it looks a tad dated, even when contrasted with earlier models, though it has a snappy simplicity which their successive low-ends have borrowed from. Just the time and seconds in its natural state, with no need for a calendar to clutter and complicate matters.


I think that's about enough of this wonderous chap, unless I can find verification that a modern replacement battery won't fry his workings.


In future I shall delve into the Pawnshop Superstars, Op-shop Nasties, and Supermarket Curiosities.

[qimissung]

I for one am waiting with bated breathe, MM. I would never in a million years have thought that there would be so much to say on this topic.

I just got a new watch for my birthday. It's beautiful, and huge. I need to have a few links removed before I can wear it. I can't remember the brand, but I'll check it out and get back.

I remember the Casio brand. I don't think I ever owned one, though. I always thought Timex was the tough one. Didn't they have some ads purporting that?

Yes, it did! Timex: Takes a licking and keeps on ticking. :D

[MystyrMystyry]

Ah yes Qimi, the old Timex slogan. If memory serves me correct (which it needn't because I just youtubed it, and saw it for the very first time) the watch in question was a mechanical - in fact two mechanicals, a working one and a now broken one which you don't see.

I don't reckon they'd get away with that in the age of truth laws and Mythbusters - maybe we should challenge them?

But either way, they were American Made watches and from respected authority I have it that once upon a time they were held in quite high esteem amongst watches, before the world went a bit crazy over digital.

Back when mechanical was all and only, a visit to the local jeweler's for repairs was an expected thing, certainly more frequent than the dentist, perhaps not quite as frequent as the grocer. Part of the shopping regime really.

Nowadays the watch styles available are many and varied, and can be sorted into two main camps - built to last, and built to last the fashion season.

The most expensive standard quartz Rolex (for example) uses a movement (so-called because it 'moves', however imperceptibly) that costs about 30 dollars to build and test. And that is the best you can get. Same as a top of the line Swatch actually. It doesn't matter if it's Swiss, American, French, Japanese, German etc - 30 dollars, and going up per list of complications: ten dollars for a 30 year calender, twenty for a fifty etc

The watches you find in a carousel in the local Mall have movements that cost about half a cent per ton to manufacture, are not tested, and if you get one that lasts longer than a week and keeps reasonable time, consider yourself lucky, because basically it's irreparable on a cost per value basis - if you happen to really like the design or for sentimental reasons, you can fit a quality movement in place of the cheap one - though it will cost.

I have a really ugly cheapy analog from a two bob shop that I bought for its strap - not for its aesthetic aspects (in fact I chose it for that reason because it was a watch I thought the world really wouldn't miss) but curiously it's strange appearance had grown on me over the years, and a few months ago I replaced its strap and wore it for a few weeks - lousy time piece though.


EDIT: Evidently Timex were able to advertise the robust waterproof quality because it was in fact true. I stand corrected. And in awe.

Also apparently their more expensive quartz lines are of a proportionately higher quality. This is getting quite interesting. BBL.

[prendrelemick]

In Britain there was a jingle.- Ticka ticka Timex tra-la-la

[MystyrMystyry]

Tra-la-la is right Pren! Further inquiry has revealed that Timex came up with the idea of cheap watch disposability twenty years before the advent of mass-produced quartz movements. It would seem the waterproof robustness was actually a by-product of having a closed case design rather than a pure design choice itself (at least originally, as the advertising campaign caught on I guess they would have tried to be specifically more adventurous).

Well I'm learning as much as you. It appears they held a larger than fifty percent market share for nearly those two decades as well, and a huge chunk either side. In America, where they were a far larger phenomenon than anywhere else, no collection (however cheap) is considered complete without at least one example of the Timex brand.

Hmmm, if anyone's hitting the yard sales sometime in the near future remember me, for I am presently Timexless. The preferred criteria is mechanical '60's era, auto preferably if you find one, but no more than ten bucks working!

Well I'll get back here after my own checking for neighborhood garage sell-offs, as it is Saturday, and the day before the New Year, and perhaps I'll turn up gold!


Happy New Year Everyone!

[Paulclem]

My first watch when I was about 10 was a Timex. It had a leather strap, which I replaced with a fashionable thick one a year or two later. This would be the early 70s. My first gadget of many. I was very fond of my watches, as I felt more adult and independant with them - ie checking to see how long until break time etc.

I now have a £20 argos Avia which I have had for about 6 or 7 years. It has a blue face - which I really like. It has had two glass faces and this is my third strap. It's a good timekeeper and I'm never without it.

[prendrelemick]

Another memorable advertising campaign was John Cleese doing Accurist:-

"Accurist. Very accurate and fits on your wrist" Done with Pythonesque delivery

[Paulclem]

Accur-arm, accur - elbow, accur-thigh - slap!

I remember that bit too.

[MystyrMystyry]

That sounds fairly modern to me Paul, though a good story. My first ever was a 13 jewel mechanical no-name (at least none that I can remember) which had a crinkled gold strip around the outside and a magnifying lens bit for the date - but alas, the vicissitudes of time...

A cheap selection here:

http://www.oldnewbb.com/921wat6.jpg

http://www.oldnewbb.com/921wat10.jpg

Vintage LCD wristwatch including a Microma, (2) Casios, a Carousel, a Sanyo, (2) Stellars, a Timex, a Nelsonic, a Dynasty, a TBE and one with no maker's name

Perhaps one of these is your missing robobuddy Pren - average cost about 50 cents, average worth about 50 cents the lot (in their not-for-sale state), but they all work (batteries removed for leakage purposes), just don't get worn very often owing to the fact that they've been 'worn', which I of course like: they each have their own unknown tale, and I'm merely the temporary custodian/curator.


On a related note I accidentally tracked down the perfect battery for the f-12 (not included above because it's not working yet, but yes!)

[MystyrMystyry]

Now while cheap LCD watches are literally a dime a dozen (considering 50 cents just isn't worth what it used to be), there is another property to their ownership - they can often trace their heritage all the way (if only) back to the seventies.

But before LCD there was LED. These are seeing something of a renaissance on two fronts - the first being copies of the original Pulsars which are just as practically useless (and overpriced) as the originals, and the second in designer LED where the little lights are incorporated with increasingly creative elan. Some of these are quite nice.

Now of course while it is the pre-worn aspect which personally appeals to me (something usually missing in expensive watches as people tend to look after them more, but which also makes 'good condition' cheap watches with any kind of pedigree increasingly difficult to find) the better the condition can create a re-sale value far beyond the original worth. Indeed, specialist sites have listings for 'mint vintage', though it's still largely hit and miss.

Sometimes a bargain can be had by people simply not knowing the value of the brand. The other day I saw a gold quartz Longines for 49 bucks, current actual value about 1500 bucks - probably more at an auction. But does it qualify as a cheap watch? Not really - cheap for a collectible maybe (even extremely cheap extremely good investment) but it wasn't actually a cheap watch to begin with.

On the subject of Longines I've just discovered my 'ugly watch' to be a cheap copy of this:

http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/m/mfEpXh3cvZwmQmVj_e494Yw/140.jpg

I suspect that one would look much better in real life though. The markings on mine are tatty, the finish ('gold look' on tin) is tatty, the black on the dial looks tatty, and it loses 4-5 minutes a day - tatty!

On a side note, one of the fun things you can do with a true cheapy is modify it without fear that it will lose value, and in some cases even increase it.

Dials and hands from another can be transferred to it to improve it's looks, or even purpose-designed if one has the patience. You can paint the case or use transfers, or even have it electroplated in chrome, real silver of gold (it would have to really deserve it though)

The Casio (and others') square display non-G-shocks have a piece of polarised film that gives the LCD its black on grey appearance. If you carefully remove it with a tweezers and rotate it 90 degrees clockwise it converts it to a very modern looking grey on black - something which Casio themselves have exploited in their higher end range of Mudman's (Mudmen?) for instance.

But for most a basic Casio would suffice, and are easily painted over in a variety of colours. My one G-Shock (forty bucks new) is iridescent blue and as far as I know the only one in the world - not that that's why I did it, I merely thought that it was missing something (and I happened to have some iridescent blue paint lying around).


Great bargains can be got from a variety of sources - and my current favorite all-the-time watch was of all things a comic book tie-in. It has an analog face and a side-laser, but also a powerful spring mechanism that allows the firing of projectiles up to 30 metres. Only ten bills new before it was banned. Time-wise it gains about a minute a day, which I can easily live with.

[cafolini]

I don't see time as occurring in any existential fourth dimension, nor occurring as a fourth dimension. In that context, time could be anything or nothing.
More precisely, time is simply what it takes for anything to occur in the three dimensions. In that context, it doesn't exist. It just passes. And it can only be measured by a watch conventionally approved as an instrument of measurement.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

...A cheap selection here:

...Vintage LCD wristwatch including a Microma, (2) Casios, a Carousel, a Sanyo, (2) Stellars, a Timex, a Nelsonic, a Dynasty, a TBE and one with no maker's name

...they each have their own unknown tale, and I'm merely the temporary custodian/curator.



That is a great collection. Clearly the sentimental value is the driving force here.
For me, it has been many years since I've worn a watch.
I do recall having a digital watch that included a calculator. The calculator buttons were so small, it was necessary to keep a magnifying glass handy.

.

[prendrelemick]

My long lost casio was most like the strapless one on the left, but it was completely sealed, there was no way of removing and replacing the battery. It had no light either, just one button you held to display the date and a pin poke hole to set it.

I hate to cast aspersions upon its magnificance but it did gain about a minute a month.

My first digital watch was a chunky gold coloured Timex LED bought in about 1978 for the huge sum of 36 pounds. (I had waited a couple of years for them to become affordable.)

[MystyrMystyry]

If I understand you correctly cafolini, you're saying time is merry dance of time particles interweaving with matter particles and day and night particles to give us an easy to comprehend universe in particle form.

Can't change the battery Pren? 7-8 years was a pretty good innings though. Have you sought out a replacement? I would like an LED, but it would have to be a Pulsar proper. At the moment the early space age is in vogue, and all my spare pennies are going toward a vintage Bulova Accutron Space Dial (these things aren't even quartz, but tuning fork powered! Hell, I don't even care if it doesn't work!)

Well Gilliatt you say sentiment, which is partly true, but it's mainly the humorous element - the fact that these were cheap to begin, style-wise a seventies/eighties phenomenon, and they've actually been used (often quite well).

But it's really availability and serendipity - if one appears for the right price at a yard sale or op-shop, or has the right element of quirkiness, then sure. I have a wooden quartz analog which I grabbed the second I saw it - the fact that it had actually been crafted sold me - even though I knew just by looking it wouldn't keep good time, but I've since given it a better engine. There are too many run of the mill/beyond the fringe watches that I've bypassed for being, well, run of the mill or beyond the fringe.

I've long wanted a calculator watch for the collection, but not for the price they command. The fact that they exist is intriguing and the best I've seen is a Seiko with an ultra-neat micro keyboard - just way too expensive for essentially a novelty within a novelty. There's a trade on programmable computer watches which offer many more options - but unless it's a present I won't be going out of my way for one.

And a Pathfinder - solar powered atomic with bar, alt, therm, compass etc - but so cumbersome and horrible the joke's completely lost on me. Even if they made it from day-glo green like this wonder:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Best-Cheap-Price-Good-Quality-Neon-Color-Hot-Sport-Digital-Unisex-Watch-DW391E-/00/s/NTQ1WDQ0NQ==/$(KGrHqV,!iUE7FnbON!rBP!)!KZZ)!~~60_3.JPG

(Though actually maybe perhaps...)

(Nah...)

What's been of interest lately is in fact the rise of the actual Dick Tracy watch incorporating Skype calling - but even the cheapest Chinese second hand is far too pricey - I'll wait until they give them out with cornflakes.

[MystyrMystyry]

Part 10: Does Cheap Necessarily Mean Cheap? (No)


I've received a number of enquiries (does nought qualify as a number? Sure it does) about what exactly constitutes a cheap watch.

The answer as you might suspect is to be found in neither build quality nor price nor comparative affordability. If it were I wouldn't be here.

Cheapness is an aspect of all three, so let's say it is not that a toy watch losing or gaining more than a half an hour per hour - that is either a toy or junk or in desperate need of repair/calibration dependent upon marque (though it may be said it is gauging some strange extraterrestrial time - and honestly somewhere it no doubt would be, though not much use to us trapped here on Earth).

Cheap brands come and go like invisible ghosts in the night, leaving a trail of ectoplasm (the manifestation of the cheap watch) to wonder at. But occasionally the cheapy manages to outdo an expensivy in accuracy - how is this possible?

Well a watch is not much more than the machine that tracks time, and there are some machines that work splendidly, and some that are manufactured on Friday. This doesn't mean that a cheap Monday machine is necessarily better than a cheap Friday machine - they are both a basket of lemons, keeping all manner of extraterrestrial times. But occasionally in the law of averages one will appear on the production line that just happens to possess the right amount of *who knows* to achieve desirable accuracy.

In the case of cheap quartz this is extremely rare, and almost impossible to reproduce because the beholders are loathe to turn them in lest something occurs to damage the mechanism and thus dooming it to the lemon basket (or bin).

With a quality quartz there is a lever to micro-adjust the speed (measured in hertz) to get it in tune with the natural world, though at best you'll still be lucky to get it within a few seconds a year

In the case of mechanical movements there may also be a deviation in time-keeping quality, though there are considerably less made than quartz so who can guess the averages there?

So what of a watch that is clearly overpriced but utilise a cheap movement? These are called Tag Heuer, and though they have a decent enough history, legends do not thrive on distant memory (or perhaps they do). When TAG took control of Heuer by a mere 50.1% they started running it as an outsourcing company and get their designs produced by the lowest bidder.

This has resulted in the production and incorporation of some of the nastiest machines in history in any field, behind the name, sparkling gold and diamonds all plastic cogs and yukky - and yes they are being sold in this state as the gossip spreads.

'But how can they get away with this travesty!' I hear you choke and splutter on your buttered baked potatoes. Well it depends on your point of view. To repair a movement is expensive in anyone's estimation, and in TAG's estimation to replace a cheap movement with another cheap movement is extremely cost-effective for the customer - and them obviously.

There's a hidden subtext here though - how highly do they regard their customer (and following their method there shall eventually be only one)? Well, their watches are defined as 'luxury watches', and the clientele tend to be those who are easily dazzled by glitter rather than function. They tend to watch movies without a thought to either the processes of 'watching' or 'movies', and are easily 'duped' in the specialist horological vernacular.


(Important notice - tomorrow's installment: 'Getting The Most Out Of Your Cheap Watch' may be delayed by a day or two owing to some unforseens, though 'Being On Time According To A Cheap Watch' should still be on schedule)

[Sancho]

Cool thread, M.M.

My first watch was an El Cheapo Timex wristwatch that my mom bought for me for my eighth birthday. I was fascinated by it. I loved that watch. I started walking into walls and stuff because I wasn’t paying attention to where I was going – I was always looking at my watch. I’d like to say that I still have it, but I don’t. After about six months I decided to see what made it tick, so took it apart with a pocketknife and a tiny screwdriver, and I never managed to put it back together again.

But I still have a Timex. And I dig this one too. It’s a digital, Timex, Ironman watch that stores three time zones, has a stopwatch, 3 alarms, does splits and laps, and cost me about 30 bucks. It’s the 4th one like it I’ve owned.

There’s another reason I love my Timex: I travel to Latin America a lot with my job, and anybody who walks around cities in the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking counties in the Americas knows that an unusual number of people will come up to you on the street and ask for the time. Here’s a traveler’s tip: they don’t care what time it is – they just want to see what kind of watch you’re wearing, and whether or not it’s worth stealing.

About a year ago I was wandering around Buenos Aires, in the middle of the night, all alone. I’d ditched my co-workers at the bar and was more or less working my way back to the hotel. Well, I was walking through a city park in the Retiro section of B.A. when I noticed a couple of young guys making a bee-line for me from across the park. I started weighing the fly-or-fight options, but I wound up holding my ground just to see what would happen. One of them comes up to me, points to his wrist, and asks, “¿La hora, La hora? Señor. “¿La hora?” Well, I can’t help but to notice that we’re standing next to a huge clock tower. So, I kept my hands in my pockets and looked up at the big clock, then I looked at the would-be wristwatch thief, then I looked at clock tower again, then back at the thief, and I said, (in English) “It’s Ten-fifteen you f**king retard.” Then I almost resisted the urge to laugh out loud as Special-Ed and his friend beat feet into the night.

It’s the funniest thing that’s happened to me in a long, long time.

Rolexes are for chumps.

[MystyrMystyry]

A funny story Sancho. I too enjoy a good confounding of bounders.

Though this is a cheap watch thread I should confess to being owned by a Rolex (which I never wear and rarely think about - it's a 1920's ladies I acquired for peanuts from a fete. Still working and exuding an aura of otherworldly quality* when it sits in my hand. Even if it was a blokes' I wouldn't wear it because of its age - almost an antique, and I think I'll auction it once it is - but we'll see.

It doesn't sit amongst the collection of the less cheap (though not by much) watches, and the reason I don't think about it is because it's beyond a watch: it's an antique that happens to be a watch.

That I happen to notice and then buy these things is because they fascinate me - I mean I would've bought it if it was a cheap mechanical Eternity from China. I didn't buy it to sell, but to admire the skill in how a machine of such quality could be made so small (and only later found out about it).

But personally no, I can't see myself ever paying big dollars for a watch, even though I do revere Patek Philippe and other quality brands. I don't have anywhere to wear them for one thing, so the main purpose of a watch would be undermined by its own value.

A real diver would be great, but I wouldn't wear a Rolex diver anywhere near a beach, not even St. Tropez (and I can't see myself being hired as the next Bond any time soon - even though personally I think I'd make a great one ;) )

If one day I stumble on a great mechanical movement without a watch (for cheap) I might fit it into a cheap case (perhaps that wooden one - it's a hardy and shock absorbent case, still managing to look cheap yet somehow feel just right on the wrist). That would be my idea of an 'expensive' watch.

Now if a person was to start a collection of cheap watches, and this same person was to ask my advice of which watches to include, I would say none - just three different sorts should suffice.

Something cheap for your pocket when you don't feel like actually wearing a watch, something to go to dinner with and don't want to embarass him/her/them, and something to wear when you're doing something more rugged.

In the first case virtually anything quartzy without a strap.

In the second there are probably the most options (and where it gets most confusing), but simple date or chronograph on a mechanical movement (you want to feel that you're wearing an 'actual' watch, just like you're having an 'actual' meal. Here I would don a skeleton for when the conversation wanes or I need to pause.

Finally sturdy comes at a relative price - there are quite abundant sports/adventure watches that not only look but also act the part quite well. For exercising I like a weighty chrono (it adds to the sense of engaging in something substantial). Adventure needs a little more protection from the unexpected - a stray stone can smash the glass easier than you can blink, extremes of temperature can warp the case and allow moisture in the cracks, so a basic G-shock (either with hands or no) or Timex (hate to resort to brands, but the fact is it is their specialty), And keep your pocket watch in your pocket for eventualities.


*Unfairly actually - it easily outclasses everything else combined.

[Sancho]

Alright then, I suppose there’s a time and a place for a Rolex. It’s just that I’ve never had the time, and I’ve never been to that place (St. Tropez, etc.).

Also, somebody told me that my Timex has more computing power than the Lunar Landing Module had.