In Memoriam of Al-Husain

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

This text is about a uiversal hero, known as Al-Husain. Charles Dickens also commented on the way he lived and died. He and his followers were slaughtered in Karbala.
Anyway, I would like the dear critics to comment on the way it is written. All kinds of comments are appreciated.

Again the sky howls and stones cry
And the storm weeps upon the desert dry
Turning in anarchy, the world can’t hold
The center, and drowned in gloomy fears unfold
God has lowered chaos when the world let
His blood be shed and hid in sands and set
***
Ye, the custodian of passions, let the reins wail
And fill thy grail
For Heavenly Hosts are lost among the swords
As grudge awards
And burnt in flames of infernal revenge of gloom
And dusk of tomb
Beating drums, stabbing flashes and appears
Drinking their fears
By his divine looks, grappling their dark lines
As a star shines
He told them “time to taste life, oh swords
Tell your lords”
When he stepped with pride, stepping on death’s pity
And crashing their unity
***
Oh grief, float my body on your waves of banes
Or give me graves to hide my wounds and pains
In spring of sorrow, I sail in seas of woe
To mourn long-haired stars when flow
And fall, and black sun of joys and bliss
Covered with immortal light of sadness as Abyss

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

Hi
At least, I expect Hillwalker to comment on the text above. Sir, though it seems stupid for you, but my first intention is to learn from the mistakes.

[Haunted]

MI, I generally hate rhymes but it's appropriate here and I think you pulled it off very well. Just a few rough spots for me. This is a little awkward though not really terrible:

God has lowered chaos when the world let
His blood be shed and hid in sands and set

Sounds forced, to end with let and set by itself...

another one is long-haired stars, hard to visualize. Is it a personification or a meteor shower?

Also immortal light of sadness as Abyss sounds like a contradiction, but that could be intentional if I had delved into the religious message. But I only read it from a technical standpoint and poetically I think it's quite a fine piece.

Probably not quite an analytical critique as coming from Hill who I highly regard as well, but hope this feedback helps a bit.

[PrinceMyshkin]

My concern is that you set the bar of rage and grief so high to begin with that everything that comes after it feels like a repetition of the beginning, though you strive to heighten the emotion.

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

Thank you dear Haunted.....

These are exactly what I need for the sake of correction.

"let and set".....I guess you are right; I'll try to replace them with proper ones.
"long-haired stars" : I tried to show how the universe was affected by this tragic event, so, I assumed that this one would help; but it seems it does not work, I guess.
"immortal light of sadness as Abyss" : yes, but I think contradictions (successful ones) in a text add an extra beauty, if I'm not deceived... But if they negatively affect the text, I have other suggestions.

After all, I am greatly grateful. Thanx.

By the way, I'm one of your fans. Your texts are inspiring for me.

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

Thank you Prince.....Do you have any suggestions for the coming texts?

[PrinceMyshkin]

Thank you Prince.....Do you have any suggestions for the coming texts?

Try to allow for some distance or breathing room between yourself and your subject; and think of what you are doing as a construction, one that will have its own emotional logic.

[hillwalker]

"let and set".....I guess you are right; I'll try to replace them with proper ones.
"long-haired stars" : I tried to show how the universe was affected by this tragic event, so, I assumed that this one would help; but it seems it does not work, I guess.
"immortal light of sadness as Abyss" : yes, but I think contradictions (successful ones) in a text add an extra beauty, if I'm not deceived... But if they negatively affect the text, I have other suggestions.

You have already invited me to comment on this piece privately and now also on this thread but quite honestly I'm not qualified, or indeed, remotely interested in anything involving religion. The entire concept of it leaves me cold.

As for the poetry - Haunted has already commented on the awkward line-breaks.
When chosen well they inform the reader when to pause (acting rather like hidden punctuation to the poem). So I have to question why you chose to end line 3 half way through the expression 'Can't hold / the centre' and similarly line 5 interrupts the phrase 'the world let / his blood be shed'.

I know you'll argue that the lines had to break there in order to maintain the rhyme - which just goes to prove how devious rhyme can be. It makes many aspiring poets write in an unnatural way - taking away the writer's natural voice and replacing it with something altogether different.

The central section has a number of baffling statements:

'As grudge awards' and 'And dusk of tomb'

One has to assume the rhyme scheme forced you to write these two lines - but what are they supposed to mean?

'long haired stars' I thought I understood - the way light from a heavenly blody is sometimes diffused by the atmosphere.
But then your explanation that the phrase is meant to show how the universe feels makes me think I got it wrong. How can long hair demonstrate a feeling? Am I missing something?

And the 'immortal light of sadness as Abyss' just won't do.
'Abyss' rhymes with 'bliss' but the entire line is a contradiction of itself. An abyss is filled with darkness not immortal light - and your suggestion that it adds beauty to the text seems disingenuous. It doesn't and I'm sure you know that.

So... there are certain positive elements to your piece but I think overall it's a little ponderous. And the form you have chosen in which to write it makes it even more hard to digest.

Your strong personal feelings towards this historical event are plain to see in the text but you don't manage to translate these feelings into anything that an impartial reader can ever share or indeed care very much about. It's all very much an abstract attempt to personify heavenly rage and anguish.

As for the prologue : the universal hero you are writing about is not as universal as you proclaim I regret so immediately I felt out of touch with the subject matter. And the fact that Charles Dickens has been quoted as questioning his sacrifice on one occasion hardly makes his involvement worth mentioning. It reads like a desperate plea from the poet for us to read the poem and take it seriously. My problem is that reading something of this sort will almost always make me choose not to read the poem. If the poem can't stand on it's own two feet it can't be that good can it?

H

[Haunted]

MI, you are too kind. It means a lot to me, thank you so much.

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

When chosen well they inform the reader when to pause (acting rather like hidden punctuation to the poem). So I have to question why you chose to end line 3 half way through the expression 'Can't hold / the centre' and similarly line 5 interrupts the phrase 'the world let / his blood be shed'.

I know you'll argue that the lines had to break there in order to maintain the rhyme - which just goes to prove how devious rhyme can be. It makes many aspiring poets write in an unnatural way - taking away the writer's natural voice and replacing it with something altogether different.
Yes, you are right. This one is a shortcoming I suffer from. But, I actually aimed to stick to the meter. One question I have been looking up its answer in many literary books, but in vain, is that I observe many modern poets, for example you in your last text, never stick to one strict meter; is there some rule you depend on? I never get along this path, for being afraid of falling in metrical problems. Would you please tell me the scheme you depend on?


The central section has a number of baffling statements:

'As grudge awards' and 'And dusk of tomb'

One has to assume the rhyme scheme forced you to write these two lines - but what are they supposed to mean?

'long haired stars' I thought I understood - the way light from a heavenly blody is sometimes diffused by the atmosphere.
But then your explanation that the phrase is meant to show how the universe feels makes me think I got it wrong. How can long hair demonstrate a feeling? Am I missing something?

And the 'immortal light of sadness as Abyss' just won't do.
'Abyss' rhymes with 'bliss' but the entire line is a contradiction of itself. An abyss is filled with darkness not immortal light - and your suggestion that it adds beauty to the text seems disingenuous. It doesn't and I'm sure you know that.

So... there are certain positive elements to your piece but I think overall it's a little ponderous. And the form you have chosen in which to write it makes it even more hard to digest.
I can't argue about these points, because I actually was not observant regarding these points.
I'll try to adjust my coming texts. Thank you sir. I really appreciate your comment.

[hillwalker]

Scheme? Rules?

There are no rules. I merely try to make sure that my poetry makes sense and has a certain lyricism. This is best assisted by careful choice of words and an attempt to maintain the natural rhythm of speech when read out loud.

H

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

Scheme? Rules?

There are no rules. I merely try to make sure that my poetry makes sense and has a certain lyricism. This is best assisted by careful choice of words and an attempt to maintain the natural rhythm of speech when read out loud.

H

I see...! So, this makes the task easier....
"No rules". I'll try to employ this rule in my future texts. Thank you for this one.

[hillwalker]

I didn't say it was easier.

It still requires discipline. You are expected to make every word count. And recycling other writers' thoughts or expressiions is not acceptable to most readers.

H

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

I didn't say it was easier.

It still requires discipline. You are expected to make every word count. And recycling other writers' thoughts or expressiions is not acceptable to most readers.

H

But sir, in the beginning, one must imitate someone else...Dont you think so?.....If not, what is your alternative suggestion?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I really, really liked this. I love the imagery and the rhyme (and I'm generally a fan of rhyme, unlike hillwalker, and even though I'm poor at it), and the dark and forbidding tone. I also liked the allusions to Yeats's "The Second Coming" in the first part. I like it because you use it there, but don't so far with it that it seems like a crutch. It helped set up the tone for me, since I'm so familiar with that poem.

[hillwalker]

1st - I don't dislike rhyme - I just detest bad rhyme where the writer ends up writing nonsense (but uses the excuse that because it rhymes it must be poetry)

2nd - why would you need to imitate someone else? We all absorb the style and form of writers we admire but that's not the same as being obliged to copy it wholesale.

When you have mastered the skills to write strict forms like sonnets then that's fine, but setting your standards so high at this early stage is asking for trouble.

H

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

I really, really liked this. I love the imagery and the rhyme (and I'm generally a fan of rhyme, unlike hillwalker, and even though I'm poor at it), and the dark and forbidding tone. I also liked the allusions to Yeats's "The Second Coming" in the first part. I like it because you use it there, but don't so far with it that it seems like a crutch. It helped set up the tone for me, since I'm so familiar with that poem.

Thank you MM, this was really motivating for me. I really appreciate it. Thanks again.

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

2nd - why would you need to imitate someone else? We all absorb the style and form of writers we admire but that's not the same as being obliged to copy it wholesale.

When you have mastered the skills to write strict forms like sonnets then that's fine, but setting your standards so high at this early stage is asking for trouble.

H

Thank you. Maybe I failed in my attempt; but actually As MM has already mentioned, I aimed to refer to Yeat's "The Second Coming" to use this allusion as a shortcut, or to prepare a religious background, to save the reader's time. Anyway, as you said, I have a lot to master, and for sure, the critics comments are really helpful for steps forward. Sir, I really appreciate your valuable comments. Thank you for your time.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I will add a caveat to my compliment, though, Mojtaba-Iraqi, and that's this: I wouldn't go overboard with direct allusions to other authors and poems. It's okay every once and while (for me, at least), but if I start reading your poems, and half of them are taking snippets from other poems (this of course assumes I know enough poetry, which I don't, but some do) it will get irksome.

[Haunted]

MI, find your own voice. Keep writing, one day you will. Yes, read others' work, absorb their essence, then listen to yourself. Read more contemporary stuff, writing and poetry has gotten much more hard core and you need that bleeding edge to distinguish yourself. You don't want to sound like yesterday's news.

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

Thank you MM. You are right. But as you observed, I'm trying to overcome that problem step by step. In the beginning, I needed some improved fuel to make my poetic engine work. Thank you

Thank you Haunted. "Sound like yesterday's news": nice. Darling, I will pin this one to my mind. I'll be looking for your comments on my coming texts and advices as well.

[Haunted]

Oh dear, don't take it the wrong way. Wasn't a personal comment, just sayin'. Rhymes are old and tired and not considered serious writing in this day and age, and very very few here can pull it off and my guess is they have been writing for a long time and have mastered it.

I was just encouraging you to rise to the contemporary poetry scene. You can only get better the more you write. Keep posting.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I agree on the whole with those who have found this poem too self-consciously important and somewhat confined within your intention to make every line rhyme but

I want to commend you for the open-minded humility with which you respond to the comments you've received. With such a readiness to learn and such dedication to improve, I'm confident that you'll get more command of writing poetry.

[Mojtaba-Iraqi]

Oh dear, don't take it the wrong way. Wasn't a personal comment, just sayin'. Rhymes are old and tired and not considered serious writing in this day and age, and very very few here can pull it off and my guess is they have been writing for a long time and have mastered it.

I was just encouraging you to rise to the contemporary poetry scene. You can only get better the more you write. Keep posting.

I didn't take it the wrong way, but maybe, I was not able to communicate my admiration in a proper way. I actually wanted to inform you how nice your expression is. Sorry for my previous post. Thank you again for the tip.



Thank you Prince. I shouldn't argue against those ideas. After all, you are native poets (and of course the best ones as I observed) and this definitely qualifies you to look at the text in a better way.