To Live A Life

[cacian]

purity is a luxury
given to those
who care
to care,
it is a sparkle from within
something you would
not know a thing about,

how could you
try and shine it
with your glitz?

life is a flash
it comes and goes
sipping along
ages of fun
something you wouldn't
think about,

the way
you pry
then make it out
to be a gift
to give out
afidevi
in a box
to those who can't afford a lock,

life is more then you can count
none of it is something
you can talk about,
it is not a gloss,
a story
in a magasine
with pictures
that may sling a past
but hold a time, a present, in a frozen face

[Buh4Bee]

Sorry, Cacian, I can't make much sense of these poems, although this poem seems to follow a structure that carries meaning. Just can't make heads or tales of it.

[cacian]

Sorry, Cacian, I can't make much sense of these poems, although this poem seems to follow a structure that carries meaning. Just can't make heads or tales of it.

Hi Buh4Bee
Thank you for reading my poem and sorry if it is not clear.
I just like to carry meanings for things without having to have a clear aim throughout.:smile5:

[Jack of Hearts]

Buh4Bee is right, cacian. It seems english isn't your first language. It's admirable that you are as good at it as you are. It's admirable that you are attempting to compose poetry in it as well. But maybe you need to start a little smaller, and with practice work your way up to the sophisticated subject matter you're reaching for?

Easier words, easier concepts- crawl before walk.






J

[cafolini]

I have no problem grasping what you are saying, Cacian. I think it is very meaningful. Keep writing in any language you please, as you please. Life is more than the written language. No doubt. And language is much more than its grammar. There are children that can write better poems with a basic vocabulary of 300 words than many adults with 20,000. Good write. I enjoyed it.

[Jack of Hearts]

This reader firmly disagees with you cafolini. Of course cacian has as much right to write however she pleases as anybody else. But if she has any interest in communicating meaningfully with her readers, then she must recognize that there's an aspect about these attempts that's causing difficulty.

Furthermore, this reader doesn't believe you understand this poem in any meaningful, nuanced way cafolini. Not that this point is important.

cacian is to be treated and regarded as well as any other poster on this site, and as any other human being ought to be treated. And so, partially out of that same respect, partially out of constructive criticism, she gets this reader's honest and goodwilled response to her efforts. Something perhaps more practical than saying write what you want because children do.

And even still, maybe the advice applies to most of us, regardless of language barriers. Maybe that's advice this reader would have given to himself; it's certainly applicable- start smaller, struggle to become more clear with every try.

One thing this reader cannot abide is placating someone so they stagnate.





J

[smerdyakov]

J is right. This poem is unintelligible. The disparate stanzas, with bizarre word choice and turn of phrase, renders the whole thing meaningless.
The purpose of language is to convey meaning. Think less form, more content, as a starting point. Try to express less complex ideas in your poetry until your vocabulary is up to the task. All the best.

[cacian]

The purpose of writing is to convey whatever meaning you wish.
Poetry is not a grammer or dictionary with rules and regulations.
I consider peotry as an art of expression. It is not a story you read, it is a flow of words with hidden meanings.
It is up to the reader to make sense out of it hence imagination.
Consider Picasso.
His paintings are obscure and the reason why his work is so successful was because he did not follow conventions.
I consider writing poetry in the same way.

[hillwalker]

The purpose of writing is to convey whatever meaning you wish...
I consider peotry as an art of expression. It is not a story you read, it is a flow of words with hidden meanings...Consider Picasso.

Oh yes, I can see the similarity now. Picasso was a painter who pushed the boundaries beyond what was considered possible at the time. Many of his contemporaries considered his work unintelligible. But there has never been any doubt that he could paint and his work will never cease to inspire other painters.

Unfortunately... you can't paint, or write what constitutes intelligible English. And you are deluding yourself that it's perfectly ok to write nonsensical words with 'hidden meanings' because that is your chosen style. Suggesting that we are the ones lacking understanding because we are bound by rules and conventions is laughably naive and disrespectful to others on here who do attempt to explore the outer edges of informal poetry.

Read your second sentence again - 'art of expression'... You fail in that basic art because no one can make head or tail of what you are writing about much of the time. Your statement that the role of writing is to convey 'whatever meaning you wish' is just a feeble excuse - an easy dismissal of any readers who don't 'get it' as being out of touch with your talent. That's plainly flawed thinking. Writing is all about communication.

Your words do indeed flow and there is a certain musicality to some of your other work (although there's none evident in this piece). But the underlying problem is that few if any can engage with your writing because it's as if it's written in an alien language - and if cafolini argues that he can make sense of what you write then I sense he is merely humouring you or has even less appreciation of 'good writing' than he displays in other posts. You need a reality check.

Your bizarre choice of non-words ('afidevi') and phrases ('sling a past') might be an intentional way of getting the reader to use his/her imagination. But for most of us on here it comes across as the misuse of a language that is rich enough in words and expressions without the need to scramble it into an inarticulate stew.

H

[cacian]

Oh yes, I can see the similarity now. Picasso was a painter who pushed the boundaries beyond what was considered possible at the time. Many of his contemporaries considered his work unintelligible. But there has never been any doubt that he could paint and his work will never cease to inspire other painters.

Unfortunately... you can't paint, or write what constitutes intelligible English. And you are deluding yourself that it's perfectly ok to write nonsensical words with 'hidden meanings' because that is your chosen style. Suggesting that we are the ones lacking understanding because we are bound by rules and conventions is laughably naive and disrespectful to others on here who do attempt to explore the outer edges of informal poetry.

Read your second sentence again - 'art of expression'... You fail in that basic art because no one can make head or tail of what you are writing about much of the time. Your statement that the role of writing is to convey 'whatever meaning you wish' is just a feeble excuse - an easy dismissal of any readers who don't 'get it' as being out of touch with your talent. That's plainly flawed thinking. Writing is all about communication.

Your words do indeed flow and there is a certain musicality to some of your other work (although there's none evident in this piece). But the underlying problem is that few if any can engage with your writing because it's as if it's written in an alien language - and if cafolini argues that he can make sense of what you write then I sense he is merely humouring you or has even less appreciation of 'good writing' than he displays in other posts. You need a reality check.

Your bizarre choice of non-words ('afidevi') and phrases ('sling a past') might be an intentional way of getting the reader to use his/her imagination. But for most of us on here it comes across as the misuse of a language that is rich enough in words and expressions without the need to scramble it into an inarticulate stew.

H

I am not following you when you say 'good writing'.
This is my poetry and this is how I write.
I cannot make it anyless or any more then it is.
Please don't take too much at heart.
This is just an experience and of course you do not have to read it or comment on it if you think it is not up to your standards.
If you do not understand it then there is nothing I can do to make you understand.
This is my style and of course yours is very different from mine.
This is how the world flows around different things.

[hillwalker]

'Good writing' is choosing the exact right word and expression to describe something, writing concisely yet with enough clarity to allow readers to understand and engage with what the writer was trying to say.

Telling us this is your style and that we can take it or leave it - that there is nothing you can do to write more clearly - suggests you are content to write for yourself and no one else and have no wish to develop or improve your skills. You have every right to follow that course, but one then wonders why you bother posting it on here for others to see and provide feedback.

H

[cacian]

'Good writing' is choosing the exact right word and expression to describe something, writing concisely yet with enough clarity to allow readers to understand and engage with what the writer was trying to say.

Telling us this is your style and that we can take it or leave it - that there is nothing you can do to write more clearly - suggests you are content to write for yourself and no one else and have no wish to develop or improve your skills. You have every right to follow that course, but one then wonders why you bother posting it on here for others to see and provide feedback.

H

I post in here because I am a member.
I don't see why I should not.
Just because you happen to have a different opinion from mine does not make less worthy of a poet or a writer.
There are many poems I come across here that I do not understand nor believe it is any good however I chose not to respond and that is enough.
I chose not to engage in an argument about it because I do not feel I have the right to do so.
This is a public forums for everyone.
As far as I am concerned I have not been out of order or rude but you seem to think that you have the right to dispute or be abrasive about a piece of poetry I happen to post.

[cacian]

'Good writing' is choosing the exact right word and expression to describe something, writing concisely yet with enough clarity to allow readers to understand and engage with what the writer was trying to say.

Telling us this is your style and that we can take it or leave it - that there is nothing you can do to write more clearly - suggests you are content to write for yourself and no one else and have no wish to develop or improve your skills. You have every right to follow that course, but one then wonders why you bother posting it on here for others to see and provide feedback.

H

'Good writing' is choosing the exact right word and expression to describe something, writing concisely yet with enough clarity to allow readers to understand and engage with what the writer was trying to say.
I happen to disagree with this.
I do not write to make it clear, I write because I feel like it.
If you find my poems not clear then so be it.
I cannot make it any easier or clearer then it is.
Peotry is not a newspaper to inform and spread knowlegde. It has to have to more to attract readers.
It is a form of expression that is up and personal to the individual who is writing.
This is how I see poetry.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I do not write to make it clear, I write because I feel like it.

I don't think you're being entirely truthful with yourself. Of course when one begins to write, one's primary motive is likely to be to get at something one cannot get at in any other way, but once one shows it to one friend - let alone posting it in a public place - one needs to be concerned with whether it will be clear to others.

Some of the responses you've received here must have been difficult to accept: I know I would have felt hurt to read some of them about my own poetry. But I think you already know that your reward is in the writing; and if you choose to do so, you may find the way between writing because you feel like it, and communicating with others.

[hillwalker]

I am not suggesting you do not post your work on here and I would defend your right to do so should anyone say otherwise.

My harsh criticism is well-intentioned... to try and show you the fundamental flaws in your poems. They are impossible to understand - which by now you will have realised is a frequent reaction given the feedback other members have posted on this thread and on others of yours.

You have every right also to continue writing in the style and manner you are most comfortable with. But your reluctance to accept that anything one writes has to make sense to the reader as well as the writer if it is to have any worth or relevance baffles me.

I shall continue to read your efforts but since I'm banging my head against a wall when it comes to offering meaningful feedback I'll desist from making any comments in future.

Good luck

H