Writing a paper on Great Expectations - can I get some comments on the theme?

[Alfred001]

I need to find a more specific subject for the paper within the broad subject of Pip's relationship with Biddy and I'm having a little trouble, since I'm so horrible with literary criticism.

The subjects I came up with is the functions Biddy serves in the story.

I'm looking to use the fact that most of Dickens' characters are flat and serve the purpose of moving the plot along (I guess this could be argued with, but I need something) and that since Biddy serves no such purpose in the story she might have been created for two purposes:

1. for Pip to be able to reveal his thoughts to us by talking at someone rather than for Dickens to have to just state them (which, again, :) could be argued with, because he often DOES just state them, but, again, I need something)

2. to further emphasize how Pip's going after Estella is on account of his ambition, rather than simply being in love with a girl, because there's Biddy who's intelligence and kindness he appreciates, but he still goes after Estella

As I said, all this stuff seems pretty weak to my, so could someone, please, suggest some arguments I could use, or perhaps (and maybe preferably) a superior subject?

[Charles Darnay]

I strongly disagree with your claim that Dickens' characters are flat and only used to advanced the plot. While you could argue that he applies some formulae to the creations of his characters cross-novels, this does not automatically lead to "flat characters." Particularly in Great Expectations, where the cast list is relatively small when compared to other novels, each character is fairly well developed.

As for your essay, the point you make at the end of your post, that is Biddy as a contrast to Estella, is a good one and could lead to a strong essay. Focus on the two characters, not so much Pip's attitude towards them but their attitudes towards Pip, and how Biddy is a foil for Estella - she is everything Estella is not and Estella is everything she is not.

[dfloyd]

wrote the book. The ending is such that Pip doesn't get Estella either. She remains the product of Miss Haversham's vengeance even after Miss Haversham's death. Dickens' publisher forced him to rewrite the more or less happy ending of the last chapter.

Still this is one of my favorite books. I think it took until about 1925 until the original ending was released. A good essay on this book would be how many wedding dresses did Miss Haversham posses in order to remain tolerably hygenic as Pip walked her around the table with the cake and wedding feast revulgent with spiders etc.

[mal4mac]

I'm so horrible with literary criticism...

... most of Dickens' characters are flat...



You are at least good at self-criticism.:wink5:



... could someone, please, suggest some arguments I could use, or perhaps (and maybe preferably) a superior subject?

How about, "Most of Dickens characters are three dimensional human beings, and yet also like the most wonderful characters in fairy tales."

[Alfred001]

Upon review I have to agree that the characters are indeed not flat.

Does anyone else have any ideas for a more specific subject about the relationship between Biddy and Pip?
I'm really struggling with this. 10 more days to go.

[Jack of Hearts]

This reader disagrees. The characters are a bit flat.

The central themes of the book make it amazing. But the bottom line is that Great Expectations was serialized and written for a newspaper or whatever it was. It was written with that kind of interaction in mind. It doesn't seem to be nearly as crafted as it would've been if it were written as a novel.

One almost senses that Dickens made the plot up with every edition and there are vestigial elements left over- wild strands perhaps never developed.

That said, isn't there a section in the first half of the book where Pip talks about how Biddy is great and all but he could never see her as a romantic object because he views Estella as the finer option, or something along those lines? That part did seem crafted. Pip is a bit of a jerk for parts of the story. To Pip, regarding Biddy as a romantic object would be 'settling' for less.






J

[Alfred001]

I've been reading some works of criticism and it seems most people seem to interpret the story as Pip's, as he puts it, hankerings after money and gentility are caused by his love for Estella.

Does anyone see any support in the text for my view that all of Pip's ambitions are actually products of egotism - the desire to improve himself - and that Estella and here affections are merely a measuring stick for that improvement (meaning if I'm good enough for Estella it means I've become a gentleman)?

[Thrillers306]

Though I read the book quite a while ago, the characters and their quirks are what stand out the most. Though Miss Haversham wants to hurt Pip through Estelle, Dickens doesn't really bring out the heartbreak that Pip is supposed to feel through Estelle marrying Drumele. We feel nothing for Pip. Biddy's decision to marry Joe is something I appreciated the most. Pip's snobbishness is also just a quirk.

This website also discusses in greater detail. So it might help you.

http://www.123helpme.com/assets/16462.html

[OrphanPip]

I've been reading some works of criticism and it seems most people seem to interpret the story as Pip's, as he puts it, hankerings after money and gentility are caused by his love for Estella.

Does anyone see any support in the text for my view that all of Pip's ambitions are actually products of egotism - the desire to improve himself - and that Estella and here affections are merely a measuring stick for that improvement (meaning if I'm good enough for Estella it means I've become a gentleman)?

The problem I think is that Pip doesn't begin to start pursuing the ambition to be a gentleman until after he meets Estella, she is without a doubt the catalyst and focus of Pip's efforts. I think you are right in saying that acquiring Estella is being represented as a a sort of measuring stick of his social worth, but I'm not sure I'd equate that with egotism. Dickens is pre-psychology, so be careful of psychoanalytic readings that look for the expression of modern conceptions of behaviour types.

If you're going to think about Biddy's relationship to Pip, the obvious, as has been suggested above, is to think of her as a foil to Estella. Joe/Biddy as a couple are also foils to the Estella/Pip pairing. She serves to emphasize all that is wrong about Estella, and Pip's inability to recognize the value of what is around him.

An essay about how Biddy is a foil for Estella isn't quite thrilling on its own. So, extend it to think about how this works as a commentary on one of the major themes in the novel (like ambition as you have highlighted). Think about the role of Biddy as a teacher versus the kind of emotional education Pip gets at the hands of Estella, maybe. Estella and Biddy have another important common element, which is they are both objects of Pip's ambitions at different points in the novel. What does it imply about the theme of ambition when Pip finally works his way round to going after Biddy, what are the changes in Pip's attitudes towards gentility by the end of the novel.

Another point of inquiry that might be helpful is to consider if there are things the reader perceives about Biddy which Pip fails to recognize.

[Alfred001]

I know Great Expectations was published serially, but does anyone know whether Dickens worked with an outline or whether he made it up as he went along (meaning whether he plotted it all out in advance or whether he made the plot up from installment to installment).

It's important for my idea that Biddy was conceived just for the purpose of contrasting with Estella - the idea falls apart at the end of the novel, seeing how she marries Joe and produces Pip jr., which, obviously, is an important function.

[OrphanPip]

I know Great Expectations was published serially, but does anyone know whether Dickens worked with an outline or whether he made it up as he went along (meaning whether he plotted it all out in advance or whether he made the plot up from installment to installment).

It's important for my idea that Biddy was conceived just for the purpose of contrasting with Estella - the idea falls apart at the end of the novel, seeing how she marries Joe and produces Pip jr., which, obviously, is an important function.

I would rephrase your argument, don't frame your discussion about why Biddy was conceived as a character. The problem with that approach is that you begin with a reading, assumed a priori, and then work on that reading to understand why the characters are represented the way they are. This all falls apart if someone just doesn't agree with your readings.

Instead, begin with the representation of Biddy, and speak about how that representation says something about a certain reading of the text's themes or form. This is a more solid approach because your claims will build off of a concrete foundation of the text itself.

If the ending changes your reading of Biddy's relationship to Pip, as a foil of Estella, then you have to rethink what Biddy means to the theme of ambition in the text. I actually don't see the ending as a problem for reading Biddy as a foil to Estella. Pip doesn't get Biddy or Estella, and that's significant.

[Alfred001]

I would rephrase your argument, don't frame your discussion about why Biddy was conceived as a character. The problem with that approach is that you begin with a reading, assumed a priori, and then work on that reading to understand why the characters are represented the way they are. This all falls apart if someone just doesn't agree with your readings.

Instead, begin with the representation of Biddy, and speak about how that representation says something about a certain reading of the text's themes or form. This is a more solid approach because your claims will build off of a concrete foundation of the text itself.

I don't understand what the difference is between the two:)


If the ending changes your reading of Biddy's relationship to Pip, as a foil of Estella, then you have to rethink what Biddy means to the theme of ambition in the text. I actually don't see the ending as a problem for reading Biddy as a foil to Estella. Pip doesn't get Biddy or Estella, and that's significant.

You're right, it isn't a problem, actually. It's just that I was hoping to be able to say that she has no other function, meaning doesn't do anything else for the plot, which is invalidated by her marrying Joe and producing Pip jr, but it doesn't invalidate the thesis that her primary function is to show Pip's love for Estella as being egotistical.