Organic Food

[JuniperWoolf]

Side A: Organic foods contain less pesticides, support small businesses, are healthier for you, taste better, contain more nutrients, are less toxic and are better for the environment.

Side B: Organic food production creats less viable crops, the crops take up way too much room, it doesn't benefit the environment at all, creates less food overall which means more starvation and it tastes exactly the same.

What do you think?

[kasie]

Are you sure it doesn't benefit the environment? Less toxic chemicals getting into the air, water systems, our bodies (and from there, back into the environment)? And I'm not sure it does taste the same.

I object to supermarkets hiking up the price for 'organic' produce - I know it's said the organic growers may not produce as large a crop so they need to charge more for their harvest but I suspect precious little of the supermarket price finds its way back to the growers.

[togre]

Side B: There will always be a small market for this kind of cottage industry, but you are not going to be able to feed the world on idealism. You need high yield crops. There is a balance you have to find between using helpful chemicals and over-using them--but to make organic vs. non-organic the arbitrary line is a gimmick or a marketing strategy. It really dodges the question of how to produce enough healthy food through sustainable farming methods.

[TurquoiseSunset]

I just think pesticides need to be looked at and improved...for human consumption, that is. I don't go out of my way to get organic and I won't pay a whole lot more for it either. The kind of veg I usually buy is 'A grade' non-organic which I make sure is washed properly before I prepare them. I go to one specific supermarket for my veg because I know it's very high quality and it actually lasts longer in the fridge. So I don't really care about organic...I might get organic baby food though, if I ever have kids.

What I do care about is free-range. It's way less cruel to the animals. Unfortunately, inorder to buy free-range meat you have to take out a second mortage for about three small chops. However, I do buy all my milk and eggs free-range.

[LadyLuck]

I worry less of organic or not, and I'm much more concerned with locally grown produce. The reason for this is that whether your produce is organic or not, if it is grown further away is is more likely that it was picked and then ripened. Locally grown produce is allowed to ripen longer before picking creating a greater abundance of the nutrients we all believe are in the food. Me personally, I'll frequent farmer's markets for my produce when they have them, and I tend to buy what is in season.

As for meat, I prefer things I've killed and butchered myself, but given that I have little time to go hunting and I don't own a farm I settle for whatever is at the store that I can afford. I have considered purchasing beef as a slab straight from local farms, but you have to really know the person you are buying from if you wish it to be antibiotic free.

[Helga]

I don't really buy organic food, I try to make sure I buy fruits and veggies from the ice and not imported. don't buy any meat cause I don't eat it, I buy free range eggs though and always organic honey.

[billl]

I might get organic baby food though, if I ever have kids.


This is a really good point I hadn't heard made before.

[OrphanPip]

One thing I like about the organic food thing is that it is in resistance in small part to major agrobusiness, like Monsanto. As far as I'm concerned, if ever there was an evil corporation, it is Monsanto.

As to the health benefit claims, I think they're based on flimsy logic and they lack evidence. The fact that major agrobusiness drives down food costs (maybe, it's not quite sure they do because we subsidize food production and they already produce more food in the West than they can sell) is problematised by their ability to drive up food costs by preventing farmers from producing their own seed, and by forcing farmers to buy specific pesticides that only work with their products.

Organic food movement will never have a significant effect on food cost, at least nothing like the impact that cash crops (coffee) and industrial crops (corn used to produce corn-syrup, animal feed, and ethanol), have on global food costs. In fact, the real problem with food costs in developing countries is the globalization of food markets, their food prices are being effected by Western demand when their food would be affordable if the prices were determined simply on local demand.

[TurquoiseSunset]

This is a really good point I hadn't heard made before.

Thanks. I just think babies might be affected so much more by pesticides and the like, why not give them a good start while they are developing at the speed of light?

[Helga]

Thanks. I just think babies might be affected so much more by pesticides and the like, why not give them a good start while they are developing at the speed of light?

I think it is good not to give a baby whatever is out there but I never bought any baby food for my boy I just made it myself there are no bad E- ingredients in the food I made and it's cheaper.

[TurquoiseSunset]

I think it is good not to give a baby whatever is out there but I never bought any baby food for my boy I just made it myself there are no bad E- ingredients in the food I made and it's cheaper.

Sorry I didn't mean to say giving babies non-organic food was wrong. I was just looking at my own situation. Organic food suppliers here are few and far between and the food can be expensive. So, if I were to have children I would give them organic baby food instead of buying all our food organic (which would be impossible anyway). So my original point was just that I wouldn't buy organic normally, but would probably buy organic food for my baby instead of non-organic (they price the same as the non-organic ones, I have seen).

But you raise a good point. Baby food purchased in jars are processed and contain preservatives, etc. By making your own baby food it won't contain any of those chemicals they use in the process or after to keep it 'fresh'.

[Helga]

Sorry I didn't mean to say giving babies non-organic food was wrong. I was just looking at my own situation. Organic food suppliers here are few and far between and the food can be expensive. So, if I were to have children I would give them organic baby food instead of buying all our food organic (which would be impossible anyway). So my original point was just that I wouldn't buy organic normally, but would probably buy organic food for my baby instead of non-organic (they price the same as the non-organic ones, I have seen).

But you raise a good point. Baby food purchased in jars are processed and contain preservatives, etc. By making your own baby food it won't contain any of those chemicals they use in the process or after to keep it 'fresh'.



I know you didn't mean it was wrong, I have just seen so many people feed 6 month old babies only food from a can and I don't think that is right. it is easy and handy but I would not do it, I just have to make that point about making the food yourself when people talk about the baby food on the market. I am sure a lot of it is good and all that but I just don't think anything can be better than homemade.

but I do think it is good when people think about getting organic and better food for their kids (even if it's just what they would do if they had kids). I often wonder about all the stuff that is in our food and how we often don't know what half of it is .

I go back sometimes to the Futurama show where we see the main ingredient in the most popular soda drink of the future.

[cranberry]

Thanks for the thread....yes to me i have tasted organic food - veggies- fruits..and makes you feel better...i dont know how to describe this but ...you feel better bit by bit..maybe you wont realise straight away but things like hair loss improves...your blood test turn out better.

;) thanks again .

[Ragnar Freund]

Gone.

[keilj]

As far as I'm concerned, if ever there was an evil corporation, it is Monsanto.



You don't have to qualify that statement. They absolutely are evil

[Varenne Rodin]

My grandmother was the president of an organic gardening club. Her garden was large and sprawling and fed her five children quite well. The food does taste different. The greatest example for me is the difference in tomatoes. If your tomato doesn't have much of a taste, it's a pretty pitiful tomato.

The issues with meat don't concern me since I don't eat it. When I have dairy it's organic and from local, cruelty free farms. I don't know how harmful pesticides and hormones are, but I know that natural, simple, and clean foods keep me feeling healthy. I also appreciate not making animals feel so awful in their strange lives as food providers.

[Climacus]

I try to ear organic stuff when feasible. In my experience, it tastes better invariably. A bag of organic carrots, for instance, always tastes sweet; whereas it's hit and miss with a bag of non-organic carrots. Does better taste mean more nutrients? I don't know. But the lack of disease-promoting pesticides, etc, is a boon whatever the case.

Processing is our real bane, I think. Most things we eat are heavily processed, fractionalized, and otherwise denatured. And so most things we eat are incredibly hard to digest. The processed food may be nutrient-dense, but good luck getting at those nutrients. In trying to digest it, your body will probably expend more energy than it can gain.

Back in the summer I determined to eat a lot more raw, easily-digestible food - fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds. And my energy level went skyward.

[Dodo25]

One thing I like about the organic food thing is that it is in resistance in small part to major agrobusiness, like Monsanto. As far as I'm concerned, if ever there was an evil corporation, it is Monsanto.


True. It's a pity because GM would be a very promising technology. I know organics people will hate me for the following, but I think the best (healthiest, most efficient, environmental) way to do agriculture would be to have organic GMO products. (Is that an oxymoron?)

I buy organic products if the price difference isn't too big. I think it's a good thing, but I also think it's overrated. Not buying animal products has way more priority to me. Organic meat is often much worse, environmentally, than non-organic vegetables. And it's certainly worse for the animals.

[KCurtis]

Organic vegetables do contain less pesticides. Still, I buy from the supermarkets and vary the products I eat; for example, strawberries are heavily sprayed unless they are organic, so I buy less. I cannot afford to buy all organic, I just can't support it, too expensive. I buy locally grown tomatoes, and the difference in taste is great.
I try to buy coffee that does not destroy the environment, although I admit I love coffee and do not always abide by this, since it can be hard to find coffee brands that are entirely environmentally friendly.
Lastly, my husband and I stopped eating supermarket turkey. I looked into free range farm turkeys and they are more than double the price of supermarket turkey.
Hence the dilemma - money!!

[Delta40]

I have my own chickens so when I read postings about people buying free range I shake my head. Those chickens are treated no better then any other chicken in the egg laying industry. They're not running around under sunny skies but crammed by the thousands in over filled muddy sheds, where they're liable to be trampled to death by other chickens. They're still slaughtered and in fact, their health may even be worse than a caged chicken. The irony is the shopper gets to pay more for a carton stamped free range instead of caged eggs thinking they're doing something for the welfare of chickens.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/free-range-organic-meat-myth.aspx

[KCurtis]

I have my own chickens so when I read postings about people buying free range I shake my head. Those chickens are treated no better then any other chicken in the egg laying industry. They're not running around under sunny skies but crammed by the thousands in over filled muddy sheds, where they're liable to be trampled to death by other chickens. They're still slaughtered and in fact, their health may even be worse than a caged chicken. The irony is the shopper gets to pay more for a carton stamped free range instead of caged eggs thinking they're doing something for the welfare of chickens.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/free-range-organic-meat-myth.aspx
If you are referring to my post on free range turkeys that is not the case. I meant turkeys from very small local farms who raise the turkeys. These farms are there for people like me to check out, which I have, for turkeys to be purchased freshly killed. These are small farms with only a handful of turkeys being raised at one time. Yes, they are humanely raised and humanely killed. I will not get into a debate about eating meat and Peta.

[Delta40]

I'm sorry. Here in Australia all major supermarkets stock free range eggs from these ghastly farms and charge a higher price for it. The labelling pictures give a false impression of the conditions which the chickens live under and of course I cannot speak for other countries. Your post triggered my own outrage here and I posted hastily and if it seemed aimed at you I do apologise.

[Darcy88]

I find organic fruit to taste better than non-organic. I must admit I've never read any research on the pros and cons of organic food, for all I know the claims are as bogus as homeopathy, but like I said, I do notice a difference in taste. The vegetables at fast-food restaurants are tasteless, the tomatoes in particular.

[KCurtis]

I'm sorry. Here in Australia all major supermarkets stock free range eggs from these ghastly farms and charge a higher price for it. The labelling pictures give a false impression of the conditions which the chickens live under and of course I cannot speak for other countries. Your post triggered my own outrage here and I posted hastily and if it seemed aimed at you I do apologise.

It's nothing to apologize for :) I do buy those eggs too, I need to investigate that.

[BookBeauty]

I am all-organic advocate. And there are ways for crop-space and such to be more viable. I have one word for you: Hydroponics!

But, anyway, it's not just the fruits and veggies. The chicken, and the cows, too. Even the salmon. Never, ever eat salmon, or any fish that's bred in captivity. Never.

Because these animals are all fed food (Cornmeal, additives, artificial CRAP) that is not from their natural habitat, unless the chicken, or beef, or eggs, or butter, or milk, or whatever it is, is Organically Certified. Grass-fed beef actually has more omega 3 fatty acids and good stuff in it.

So, not only are the animals, and the veggies and fruit happier, and fed what they're supposed to eat, but they are also much, much Healthier!

Also, what Delta said about chickens is absolutely right. Free range sometimes only means that they get maybe a meter of extra space, but they're still pecking each other to death in their own filth. :S Mostly because, despite getting that meager meter, they stuff even more chickens into it to fill it up. The sadness of human cruelty knows no bounds.

[Buh4Bee]

I like the idea of a garden or a CSA. My sister is an organic farmer with her future husband and the best vegetables are the ones that are grown locally and picked in season. In winter, you can eat more root vegetables like squash or even dried beans. It's more work to gather veggies this way. Organic food is not convenient.