Bi-polar

[Delta40]

I understand this is a personal subject and perhaps for some, even a sensitive one. I'm in the process of diagnosis and have done some standard reading from various sources ranging from DSM IV definition, and particular sites.

If anyone on Lit-Net is willing to discuss either their own experience or their understanding of it bipolar I & II, I would be interested to hear any information, either subjective or objective

I really appreciate the privacy of all concerned.

As an afterthought, what are people's view of group therapy in a mental health context? Any discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of sharing among others or do you think it's strictly a personal decision?

[JuniperWoolf]

It's starting to fall out of fashion, but ten years ago it was over-diagnosed because the signs of manic behaviour weren't directly observed, but were reported by the patients themselves and that isn't reliable. That's okay as long as they're just given an SSRI, but sometimes people who are just depressed would be given Lithium which isn't very good.

As for the effectiveness of group therapy, I'm willing to go this far: people like it, it's fun and it gives them relief, and if someone who is suffering from an emotional imbalance can find something in their life that they like and that provides fun and relief, then that's good because that's what they're missing. Does it "cure" the "disease?" I have no idea, but I don't think that matters as long as it makes people feel good and no one's trying to rip them off (by getting them to pay an insane amount of money for some group Self Help crap or something).

[Delta40]

Thanks for your opiinin juniper. Did you know that more and more AED's (Anti-epileptic drus) are being prescribed for the condition now? I already take these for my epilepsy and the side effects are psychiatric which can have similar symptoms? I'm a bit confused on that one I admit....

[MystyrMystyry]

It sounds really messy. I knew someone who was diagnosed, but they were also an alcoholic, so they spent their whole hungover day thinking about drinking and come nightfall they drank their fill to escape from work - which would have been a dream job (landscaping) in the hands of someone who didn't have a problem. And that was the recommendation: give up the booze.

So he was put on some drugs that made him not want to drink, except his willpower to drink overrode them, and he drank even more than before to kill the effects.

Anyway, one day he gave himself acute alcohol poisoning and in a moment of clarity decided he was going to sue the shrink because 'He knew I was an alcoholic - what's he doing prescribing anti-alcohol medication!? I nearly died!' etc


(we talked him out of it)

[Buh4Bee]

I don't know much about bi-polar disorder. Mental illness untreated is so hard, not only on the person but on people around the person. At times, it can be like an implosion and it sucks everyone in, unless it gets treated. So treatment sounds like a good thing, if you do have this disorder.

As far as support groups go, I hate them. They idea of people sitting around doing what they need to do, is not my style. But I respect people who do go and get something out of it. Therapy is hard work! Personally I belong to an on-line forum for people with attentional issue. It is a good place to unload and find like-minded people. It's good to know you are not alone and that people do survive and live an optimal quality of life. On the preachy side, you may hear that it's a choice to be happy or miserable, but you have to work to be happy.

Good luck!

[OrphanPip]

I don't know much about bi-polar disorder. Mental illness untreated is so hard, not only on the person but on people around the person. At times, it can be like an implosion and it sucks everyone in, unless it gets treated. So treatment sounds like a good thing, if you do have this disorder.


I think you're right, it's a troubling issue about mental health. Often, the mental health issues are less of a problem for the person suffering from them than they are for those who have to live with the person. I've experienced it first hand with my mother, she hoards obsessively, she will sometimes avoid speaking to people for weeks on end, she often threatens to kill herself, when I was younger she would disappear for days at a time without word, she can be abusive and vicious against everyone around her for no apparent reason, and she will do nothing about it to get help. In the end we have to deal with it, babysitting her so she doesn't hurt herself occasionally, picking up after her mess, dealing with her abuse, and there is nothing we can do to force her to get help.

My mother also has many moments where she is a brilliant and loving person, but it's the dark patches that stick with you, especially from childhood.

[Gladys]

Did you know that more and more AED's (Anti-epileptic drus) are being prescribed for the condition now? I already take these for my epilepsy and the side effects are psychiatric which can have similar symptoms?

My understanding is the reverse: anti-psychotic drug are routinely prescribed for less common epilepsy. I have friend, around 50 years old and just diagnosed with epilepsy, who has been given half a dozen anti-psychotic drugs this year in an unsuccessful attempt to stop the fits. The side effects can be serious I believe.

With regard to drug treatment, I hear today on radio that behavioural therapy is more effective in treating bipolar disorder than previously thought: Bipolar disorder: diagnosis (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2011/3345292.htm)

[ftil]

I personally prefer therapy than a medical treatment. The research that has shown that Beck cognitive and behavioral therapy is effective in preventing recurrence of depression. It is a short term therapy as it involves 10-20 sessions. Also Interpersonal therapy proved as effective as antidepressants for milder case of major depression. Medical treatment always brings a question of side effects. Antipsychotic medications can cause tardive dyskinesia- involuntary movements of tongue, lips, jaw, and hands. Lithium therapy used in both Unipolar and Bipolar has some unpleasant side effects such as lethargy, decreased motor coordination, and gastrointestinal problems. Long term use of lithium has been associated with kidney malfunction and sometimes kidney damage. Antidepressants and anitanxiety medications that are used in medical treatment for both Unipolor or Bipolar are not free from side effects, either. It may be hard sometimes to make a decision what to do.

Regarding group therapy, I think that is a personal preference. Some people may like it whereas others don’t. I like it. Group therapy has many advantages as people don’t feel isolated. The participants may built deeper connection outside of therapy, getting additional support. It is a rule that group therapy doesn’t involve deep and emotionally charged issues. I view it as the advantage.
Beck cognitive therapy as well as Interpersonal therapy can only be done in one on one therapy setting.

[JuniperWoolf]

Thanks for your opiinin juniper. Did you know that more and more AED's (Anti-epileptic drus) are being prescribed for the condition now? I already take these for my epilepsy and the side effects are psychiatric which can have similar symptoms? I'm a bit confused on that one I admit....

That sounds very vaguely familiar. I know that sometimes certain SSRIs are prescribed as weight-loss drugs because some of the side effects include loss of appetite and excessive sweating. The idea of using a medication that was intended for one purpose to treat another condition because the side effects of the pill might alleviate the symptoms strikes me as a bit dodgy. I've been on anti-depressants at too high a level for my body, and I was a zombie. What happens to someone who isn't depressed but takes them anyway to lose weight? Are the effects of a mood stablizing medication compounded in someone who has a stable mood as they are? These drugs are really quite potent, and their side effects can be debilitating, there must be some better options for the overweight person who isn't already on anti-depressants.

On the other hand, they might have done tests and discovered that AEDs do treat bi-polar disorder more effectively and with less negative side effects than lithium (which I'm told is a pretty harsh compound). If I were someone diagnosed with bi-polar, and someone was trying to prescribe an epilepsy medication to me, I would be skeptical but I would still learn more about it.

[Darcy88]

I think the key to living well with bipolar is to focus on health, on implementing the same sort of wellness strategies that would benefit any individual regardless of whether they suffer from the illness or not. Sleep and exercise are vital. Relaxation is vital. Avoiding stimulants and depressants is important. Especially important is cultivating an attitude that is at once positive and realistic, an attitude that is balanced, that avoids either extreme, being neither grandiose nor negative.

My doc told me I'm "possibly bipolar." I basically act like I am and do all I can to remain stable. Most unmedicated people with bipolar spend the majority of their time in a depressive state, so working out a strategy to avoid becoming depressed is imperative. I've never gone to a support group but I do a have a friend who is bipolar 2 with tendencies very similar to mine, and I know several others who struggle with depression, and I find that talking about it with them provides some relief, if only by making myself seem less "weird."

[Delta40]

I think the key to living well with bipolar is to focus on health, on implementing the same sort of wellness strategies that would benefit any individual regardless of whether they suffer from the illness or not. Sleep and exercise are vital. Relaxation is vital. Avoiding stimulants and depressants is important. Especially important is cultivating an attitude that is at once positive and realistic, an attitude that is balanced, that avoids either extreme, being neither grandiose nor negative.

My doc told me I'm "possibly bipolar." I basically act like I am and do all I can to remain stable. Most unmedicated people with bipolar spend the majority of their time in a depressive state, so working out a strategy to avoid becoming depressed is imperative. I've never gone to a support group but I do a have a friend who is bipolar 2 with tendencies very similar to mine, and I know several others who struggle with depression, and I find that talking about it with them provides some relief, if only by making myself seem less "weird."

What you say is wise. My doctor said the same thing. I experience less low periods than I do high ones and its this part that can disrupt the balance of the household and to a lesser degree, my working life. I won't be taking meds since my epilepsy medication is prescribed to people with bi-polar. And I guess, I'm concerned that too much medication will extinguish that spark of creativity within me.

I would like to talk to other people for the same reason as you!

[Darcy88]

What you say is wise. My doctor said the same thing. I experience less low periods than I do high ones and its this part that can disrupt the balance of the household and to a lesser degree, my working life. I won't be taking meds since my epilepsy medication is prescribed to people with bi-polar. And I guess, I'm concerned that too much medication will extinguish that spark of creativity within me.

I would like to talk to other people for the same reason as you!

If high periods are your greater concern then I would strongly recommend cutting out caffeine entirely, as well as making sure you sleep at least 7 hours a night. When I get like that I try to force myself to stay in bed 7 hours a night, even if I can't sleep, in which case I just meditate. And balance really is key, as you indicate. Not getting overly excited/obsessed about any single particular thing. With hypomania you tend to become extremely goal oriented, absolutely pumped over and fixated on a passion or activity. The low periods for me come when my progress towards that goal is somehow slowed or impeded. Then the sky falls and the gloom sets in. The best way to combat this is to not get too invested in your goal/passion, to recognize and accommodate the complexity and diversity inherent to a flourishing life. Life is parted into the social, the familial, the spiritual, the professional, the creative, ect. Placing too much significance on any of these at the expense of the rest is a surefire recipe for instability, at least in my own experience.

And remember you're not a freak! So many highly creative and successful people are suspected as having suffered from a mood disorder. Ernest Hemingway and Winston Churchill come to mind.

[Buh4Bee]

Yes! It is a hard thing in deed to have a mood disorder and not be in control of your moods all the time. It is something that we keep working at- think about the process and not the final result.

[Delta40]

I'm on tea now and thanks for the advice Darcy. I've taken up smoking again. On again off again. My psych thinks I'm making the issue too complex and why don't I just admit that nicotine is addictive, I come from an addictive background and this is the result.

I hate easy answers (lol) I mean I don't want to go digging for something deep and meaningful but how did I go 16 years without smoking and then poof! here I am puffing away. It isn't as if a crisis of sorts happened that I haven't experienced before. Perhaps I got a bit depressed. Ok I admit it. I did. I don't want to get all defensive and perhaps giving myself a hard time about it isn't improving my chances of quitting. Well I got that out of my system and I feel better for it.

[Gladys]

Sleep and exercise are vital. Relaxation is vital.

And regular exposure of the eyes and skin to sunlight.


I've taken up smoking again.

For a month or so, instead of pick up a cigarette, might you find something better to do? Like walking in the sun, sipping a green or white tea, or reading a fine book.

[MystyrMystyry]

Maybe if you look at the actual reasons why and how nicotine and caffeine work on the nervous system to understand what you're doing to yourself.

You probably have a tea first to clear your palette and then light up.

The first takes vitamin B out of your system to make you feel more awake, while the second clogs up the arteries, making the heart work harder to get rid of it. This gives a temporary feeling of your body moving into enthusiasm mode - but it's not real: it's actually survival mode.

If you're addicted to caffeine, make sure you're taking B supplements (I take Mega B), and if you're addicted to nicotine just give up. Easy.


On the Bipolar front, I'm thinking it's a bit like the effect my landlord has on me. He's a complete day long pain, but I depend on him for the great location and cheap rent, so I put up with him because the alternative is more expensive and/or worse. But he's such a total pain that's it's hardly worth it, so this is frustrating. I get angry but can't express it because I'm in an emotional bind: I WANT the cheap rent that he has to offer, and I don't want to be kicked out - so if he wants help with something I have to oblige so he doesn't go berzerkers and kick me out. I hate doing this and I hate the part of myself that has sunk to this level, and I hate him for forcing my hand. So I spend all day hating his continually disruptive ways in particular, and also the situation.

But damn it's a great location. Damn it's great rent.


See where the problem comes from? It's external! It's him! He's caused this!

Also nicotine isn't all that addictive - it's just something the cigarette companies want you to believe so you keep buying their overpriced poison, sucker.

[Buh4Bee]

I think some people have stronger addictions than others. I know of two people who cannot stop smoking. I however, was able to stop pretty easily.

[Darcy88]

I'm on tea now and thanks for the advice Darcy. I've taken up smoking again. On again off again. My psych thinks I'm making the issue too complex and why don't I just admit that nicotine is addictive, I come from an addictive background and this is the result.

I hate easy answers (lol) I mean I don't want to go digging for something deep and meaningful but how did I go 16 years without smoking and then poof! here I am puffing away. It isn't as if a crisis of sorts happened that I haven't experienced before. Perhaps I got a bit depressed. Ok I admit it. I did. I don't want to get all defensive and perhaps giving myself a hard time about it isn't improving my chances of quitting. Well I got that out of my system and I feel better for it.

They say nicotine is as addictive as heroin. I've never tried heroin, but I've been an on-again off-again smoker for 8 years now and I can attest to how difficult it can be to kick the habit. I try not to beat myself up over it. Nicotine patches can be a great aid, and exercising more, getting those endorphins flowing, can also really help replace that nicotine rush.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

They say nicotine is as addictive as heroin.
I think they may be mistaken on that point.

[Buh4Bee]

I'm on tea now and thanks for the advice Darcy. I've taken up smoking again. On again off again. My psych thinks I'm making the issue too complex and why don't I just admit that nicotine is addictive, I come from an addictive background and this is the result.

I hate easy answers (lol) I mean I don't want to go digging for something deep and meaningful but how did I go 16 years without smoking and then poof! here I am puffing away. It isn't as if a crisis of sorts happened that I haven't experienced before. Perhaps I got a bit depressed. Ok I admit it. I did. I don't want to get all defensive and perhaps giving myself a hard time about it isn't improving my chances of quitting. Well I got that out of my system and I feel better for it.

You vent woman! When I gave up cigarettes, it was for the sake of the husband. He said it was him or the cigarette. I figured, I could still have a cigarette here and there and leave it at that. But if I didn't give them up the husband would leave. So I was motivated.

I suppose we all need something to motivate us to make such a large change as quitting smoking. When we have no reason to give something up, we just keep on with the old, even if they are bad habits.

[Delta40]

lol. thanks buh4bee. I'm still puffing away and going broke. It's a shame because I'm trying to save spending money for my holiday in february so financially its draining but more than that, I can feel the real change in my health. It slows me down which I might need sometimes but I'm not writing much either.

[Gladys]

I'm still puffing away...

To make matters worse, a study reported in Australia last week that smoking roughly doubles your risk of depression.

[Delta40]

I'm stopping and starting atm. I would believe that stat only because smoking doesn't make me feel good about myself.

[tonywalt]

You vent woman! When I gave up cigarettes, it was for the sake of the husband. He said it was him or the cigarette. I figured, I could still have a cigarette here and there and leave it at that. But if I didn't give them up the husband would leave. So I was motivated.

I suppose we all need something to motivate us to make such a large change as quitting smoking. When we have no reason to give something up, we just keep on with the old, even if they are bad habits.

Would he really have left?

I don't actually smoke and of course it's bad for a person's health, but society has made it smokers into pariahs. I've seen obese people eating bacon sandwiches and dubba wubba cheeseburgers b#$thing like little girls about smokers. I am sure the trend will pass, like AIDS on the news, or homelessness cause, or the current "missing pretty girls" news craze, but in the meantime it's waay over the top.

[Delta40]

My motivation comes and goes unfortunately - and it's not a man! Just me and my moods....

[MystyrMystyry]

It's linked to insanity - because it's a completely insane thing to do. No one really cares if anyone else chooses to smoke or not (maybe kids about their parents and vice versa), but they care about being associated with a loony.

'Your friend's a loony? You must be a loony too. Your dad's a loony? You're obviously a loony too. Your kid's a loony? That tells me everything I need to know - you're an embarrassment and I can't be seen talking to you because everyone will think I'm a loony like you.'

Got to watch out for those societal attitudes - they'll insist you worship Satan next. Probably best to go against the grain just in case. Smoke until your nose is clogged and you can't smell perfume. Smoke until your ears are blocked and you can't hear birdsong. Smoke until you feel so sick that your head caves in. Smoke until you're completely blind and can't read the warning labels. Smoke until you get mouth, tongue and throat cancer so you can't answer the critics. Smoke until your teeth rot and break so you can't eat, only smoke. Smoke until your lungs collapse. Smoke until you contract gangrene in your extremities. Smoke until you're so out of breath they can't hear your wheezy gasping whispering for emergency help. Smoke until all you hair falls out. Smoke smoke smoke because you're a rebel who doesn't care about yourself. Smoke until they carry you off in a casket, and keep smoking while they lower you down the hole singing 'I did it my way!'

[Delta40]

You're such an inspiration MM!

[Darcy88]

It's linked to insanity - because it's a completely insane thing to do. No one really cares if anyone else chooses to smoke or not (maybe kids about their parents and vice versa), but they care about being associated with a loony.

'Your friend's a loony? You must be a loony too. Your dad's a loony? You're obviously a loony too. Your kid's a loony? That tells me everything I need to know - you're an embarrassment and I can't be seen talking to you because everyone will think I'm a loony like you.'

Got to watch out for those societal attitudes - they'll insist you worship Satan next. Probably best to go against the grain just in case. Smoke until your nose is clogged and you can't smell perfume. Smoke until your ears are blocked and you can't hear birdsong. Smoke until you feel so sick that your head caves in. Smoke until you're completely blind and can't read the warning labels. Smoke until you get mouth, tongue and throat cancer so you can't answer the critics. Smoke until your teeth rot and break so you can't eat, only smoke. Smoke until your lungs collapse. Smoke until you contract gangrene in your extremities. Smoke until you're so out of breath they can't hear your wheezy gasping whispering for emergency help. Smoke until all you hair falls out. Smoke smoke smoke because you're a rebel who doesn't care about yourself. Smoke until they carry you off in a casket, and keep smoking while they lower you down the hole singing 'I did it my way!'

I'm a smoker.... but that was just awesome. Really made me stop and think.

[Delta40]

My brother is a non-smoker and we're going overseas next year and will spend 2 weeks sharing a cottage. His main concern is smoking because he can't abide the smell of it, even if you've been out having a good time. So he wants the rule of no smoking on holiday.

He's an alcoholic and to be honest, I can't stand being in the company of drinkers, I don't like the smell and I hate drunk men. Do you think it's reasonable that I rule no drinking on holiday?

ha ha. I just know he's going to refer to my illness and use it as a basis that people like me can't trust themselves to make responsible decisions.....sigh

I'm searching my mind for possible compromises on this without flipping my lid when I see him to discuss the matter.

Any suggestions?

[cafolini]

I'm not against smoking and/or drinking if you can control it. But many can't, so what am I to do? I'll bypass the subject. Moderate drinking or smoking might not be bad for your health.
So much for obesity. You must eat to live, not live to eat.

[Delta40]

I can comfort myself with the fact he is morbidly obese!

[Darcy88]

My brother is a non-smoker and we're going overseas next year and will spend 2 weeks sharing a cottage. His main concern is smoking because he can't abide the smell of it, even if you've been out having a good time. So he wants the rule of no smoking on holiday.

He's an alcoholic and to be honest, I can't stand being in the company of drinkers, I don't like the smell and I hate drunk men. Do you think it's reasonable that I rule no drinking on holiday?

ha ha. I just know he's going to refer to my illness and use it as a basis that people like me can't trust themselves to make responsible decisions.....sigh

I'm searching my mind for possible compromises on this without flipping my lid when I see him to discuss the matter.

Any suggestions?

Just smoke outside and wear a designated smoking jacket which you can take off when you go back in. I understand him not wanting you to smoke inside, but its a tad unreasonable for him to insist that you not smoke at all.

[Delta40]

Thanks Darcy. I'll make a note of that suggestion in my Book of Potential Fallout!

[cranberry]

Also nicotine isn't all that addictive - it's just something the cigarette companies want you to believe so you keep buying their overpriced poison, sucker
.

( I totally agree with you )

[Delta40]

I'm finding that I can smoke or not smoke but I've had some curve balls thrown my way in the past couple of months, esp with bi-polar and epilepsy and I think I'm just using it as a way to either self-harm or distract myself.

[Delta40]

Today I've been reading about possible links between bipolar and epilepsy. It had not occurred to me to factor them both in the scheme of things as I've treated them as separate conditions but some of the info I've read today suggest a connection yet to be established but because AED's are prescribed to people with bipolar and 12% of epileptics have bipolar, it's pretty hard to ignore.

I'm under the care of a neurologist and a psychiatrist and neither of them have commented on the other condition so I guess I'll put it on the table at my next appointment. I sorta feel a bit miffed about it actually. I've just taken a week off work through having a seizure then sinking into a deep depression. Perhaps its because some of the noted side effects of AED's are similar to the symptoms of bipolar that the neurologist just waves them to one side but I'll see what they both have to say over the next couple of weeks.

[Gladys]

Today I've been reading about possible links between bipolar and epilepsy.

This 2002 article may interest you: Antipsychotic Drugs and Epilepsy: Indications and Treatment Guidelines (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1528-1157.2002.043s2019.x/full)

[Delta40]

Thanks Gladys

[Pendragon]

Having personal experience with bi-polar, I hate how TV shows and movies portray us as raving loonies. Far from it. I get very depressed at times, and very touchy at times. I have found in the 17 years I have suffered with this accursed illness that therapy is a waste of my time. I see a psychiatrist on a regular basis, and I usually have to have my medicine adjusted at least twice a year. I have found that the best thing to do is attempt to avoid unnecessary stress. For example, bi-polar is the reason I am disabled. I have tried going back to work on a number of occasions, even getting an Associate's Degree (God what that took out of me! I almost didn't make it!) in order to find a different job than working in a factory. It didn't work, and after four times of having to quit, I gave up. My wife's sainted great aunt told me "You have nothing to be ashamed of, you worked from the time you were twelve, and you have given your best to return to work. What you need to do is just rest. So I do. It gets boring, and I wish I had work to go to, but I cannot take another failure. So next time you run into someone who has bi-polar, remember the old Pendragon, and just be kind to them. You may never understand the illness, but those of us who suffer with it do not understand it either. We just need a friend.

God bless

Pen

[Varenne Rodin]

Forums are like group therapy. Not so bad, right? Some people can be irritating. Sometimes people throw fits. Generally there is potential to make some non-threatening friends.

I've had a different experience with this bipolar thing. My brother was killed. There was foul play and a cover-up that I unearthed myself. My mother, my sister, and I were all devastated. They were to the point of not being able to function. I basically had no choice but to go through a bizarre process of recovering my brother's body and talking to people who were involved in his death. It took weeks and I had to drive hundreds of miles and put myself into dangerous situations in which my own life was verbally and physically threatened several times. (I'm aware that this sounds ridiculous, but I was educated in multiple areas of criminology and I really was the only one willing to find out what happened)

After everything was finished, I broke down. I couldn't stop crying. All day every day. I couldn't eat. It was one of the worst times of my life. Four more family members died over the following five years, not from suspicious causes, but it was just one shock to the system after another. After one of the funerals I was attacked by a stranger and almost died. The attacker got away and is still out and about somewhere living his happy happy attacker life. I'm sorry for the mini life story, but this all led to my mother pushing me into therapy. She went with me. She had already been diagnosed bipolar and was on meds for it. They never seemed to help her.

Her shrink was a pretty hilarious Jewish man. I only mention that he was Jewish because he brought it up every time I saw him. He was like a Woody Allen type. He seemed more nervous than I was. He diagnosed me with "low level bipolar," whatever that means. He put me on medications that basically sedated me for the next six months. I felt sedated, but I didn't sleep. Awful time. One week he canceled half of his appointments, I was one of the patients he kept. He told me to stop the medications. He suggested I indulge my artistic side and my passions. A week later he was dead from a brain tumor. This created all kinds of confusion for me as to whether he had been sane at all during the time I talked to him. I was sad that he died, but I had no interest in seeing another doctor.

Off of the meds I finally started to grieve properly. I was still pretty afraid of leaving my house for a while. I did school and work at home. Eventually I moved to Miami for business reasons. I fainted at work one day (low blood pressure) and my boss made me go to a few sessions with her doctor/shrink. He said I wasn't bipolar at all. He said I had post traumatic stress disorder and said I should try medical marijuana. That was several years ago. I haven't tried pot. It didn't surprise me that I'm probably not bipolar. I think I was just sad. My brother died, my dad, my sister, my grandparents, my aunt. My friend Richie killed himself by setting himself on fire. A lot of bad things happened.

My confusion now isn't whether people are bipolar, I believe it's a serious thing. I just wonder how often it is misdiagnosed. Can being sad and miserable make a person bipolar?

[B. Laumness]

What we can say? I offer to you my compassion, Varenne. You are beautiful.

[Varenne Rodin]

That's very sweet. Thank you, Laumness.

[Darcy88]

Yes Varenne, I`m sorry that all that happened to you. I`m speechless.

I am also wary of hasty diagnoses. Psychiatrists in general I do not trust. One prescribed me heavy-duty medications even though I'd never gone crazy before. He said "take them in case you ever do go psychotic." I said "no way," and found myself another shrink who told me that the other one was very irresponsible in doing what he did. Its been three years. I want to go back to the guy and rub his face in the fact that I've been largely fine since then.

[Varenne Rodin]

When it comes to medicating, second opinions are very important. Sometimes meds are necessary, but a person should be absolutely sure it's what's right for them. I'm glad you have been managing well, Darcy. I think you bring a lot to the forum. :)

[Darcy88]

When it comes to medicating, second opinions are very important. Sometimes meds are necessary, but a person should be absolutely sure it's what's right for them. I'm glad you have been managing well, Darcy. I think you bring a lot to the forum. :)

Thanks Varenne.

[Darcy88]

And Pendragon, it can sometimes help to remember how many successful and talented people have struggled with this illness. Hemingway, Churchill, Roosevelt, I think Woolf too, Graham Greene, Edgar Allen Poe, Jackson Pollock, Van Gogh, ect. I even think Walt Whitman may have suffered from the illness, partly due to this line from his poem Song of Myself: "Ranting and frothing in my insane crisis, or waiting dead-like till
my spirit arouses me,"

And also from the descriptions written by those who met him.

The most interesting person I know is manic depressive. He's a visual artist, a dj, a film-maker, and one heck of a ladies man let me tell you!

Its nothing to be ashamed of.

[MystyrMystyry]

I had a longish term depression once (stuck in a bad situation outside of my control*) and went to the pharmacy for some anti-deps - the bloke told me I didn't need them, no-one needs them, that he's only selling them to me because he needs to pay the rent, but he was so strongly advising against taking them that I heeded his advice. Upon returning home I left the unopened packet on the fridge until they were way past the recommended date. That was my experience with meds.

I think chocolate icecream and golden syrup muffins** are a good quick solution to the miseries - they got me through. Coke Zero, Pepsi Max (possibly others), and sugarless chewing gum also helped, because of the phenalketaneurics (sp?). They resupply a naturally occurring anti-depressant to your cerebral cortex. When I really had to endure an ordeal like grocery shopping I would dose up on them to get me through - otherwise it felt like hard work and I'd instead live on greasy rubbish from the local deli, or any fast food with minimal nutrition, interpersonal contact and waiting times etc (like Big Krapburgers) - there's a pattern there: when depressed you don't want to live in the moment, rather keep thinking about the comfortable past when things were right. Fear that the future can only be worse prevents forward motion and self-stifles attempts to do anything about your predicament.


*This is one of the deciding factors in depression, the internal anger without any energy to act because it all seems pointless. With bipolar you get to see the troughs from the peaks and are constantly reminded how you'd rather stay up in the fresh air mountains than sink back down to the polluted valleys below. Normal depression you can't even see the mountains through the smog.

**Yummy!


[EDIT: I just read your harrowing account Varenne - I don't think my solutions would work in cases like that]

[Varenne Rodin]

I still like your ideas, Mystyry. I don't think my situation is typical of anything. A lot of people have it worse than me. I'm alive. I have good moments. I'm calm and collected. I wish I could offer depressed people some tips for getting out of it. The best I have is that human beings can withstand a lot more than they tend to realize.

Food is nice. Runner's high is nice. Art is nice. :)

[Pendragon]

Never said I was ashamed of being bi-polar. I have accomplished things since that I am very proud of. Getting that associate degree when I had to miss a lot of time because I couldn't cope. I graduated Suma Cum Laude, having decided that a "B" was unacceptable. I defended my son in court on a weapons charge, and despite no law education nor experience, I won the case.

True it is that they will over medicate you if you don't watch it. For almost six years I was so medicated that I have little memory of the time. Now, I finally have a different psychiatrist who has me off most of those meds, and adjusts the few I have left according to need. I can think, I can write, I can cope much better.

Yet the problems with agoraphobia keep me alone much of the time. I do appreciate my friends on this and other forums. I have met several authors through my reviews on amazon.com. We chat often. If my job began and ended here in my living room, I'd be fine. Sadly, I haven't been able to find work, but I continue to search. Who knows what the next day will bring?

I will be seeing my Doctor today. He will probably decrease the dose of one of my meds again. Each time I defeat the need for a medicine I count as a victory.

Varenne, I shudder to think what you have been through. Allow me to offer my very sincere condolences. I don't know what I would have done in your shoes. You are a very brave person. My hat's off to you.

Everyone diagnosed as "bi-polar" seems to have a different set of symptoms. I agree that the term is a sort of "catch all" that possibly means the Doctor or Therapist hasn't really got a clue. So each of us fight a battle that is all our own. My signature lines say it all for me: "It's all just the way that we cope with our lives"

God bless

Pen

[Varenne Rodin]

Thank you, Pen. This forum is lucky to have you. :)

[JuniperWoolf]

For almost six years I was so medicated that I have little memory of the time.

I've had that. I was apparently flipping out in the hospital for two weeks once, but I don't remember even being there. I was also over-medicated during the first term of my second year of college, and I blame my C- on my idiot doctor.

Psychology is the science in which I have the most education after biology, and the branch of diagnostic psychology has always seemed very dodgy.

[Gladys]

Everyone diagnosed as "bi-polar" seems to have a different set of symptoms. I agree that the term is a sort of "catch all" that possibly means the Doctor or Therapist hasn't really got a clue. So each of us fight a battle that is all our own.

I heard the same on radio recently, and that unipolar depression and schizophrenia also have a wide range of symptoms. Interestingly, schizophrenia may not be so distinct from depression as long believed. And there is evidence that depression and schizophrenia are towards one end of two or more spectrums along which every human lies.

[Pendragon]

I've had that. I was apparently flipping out in the hospital for two weeks once, but I don't remember even being there. I was also over-medicated during the first term of my second year of college, and I blame my C- on my idiot doctor.


I hear you! I know when I first crashed and burned that I was violent and suicidal and that they had to keep me medicated for safety reasons. The problem is long after my violent episode they kept me foggy all the time. I would only see the Doctor 4 times a year, and any problems had to be dealt with by the hospitals.

Now I have a Doctor, who if he changes my meds, sees me in two weeks to ensure that I have no bad reactions. If I must call the hospital, I'm talking with him inside of a hour. He is not quick to place me in a hospital, preferring to work with me so I can stay home with my family and still recover.

"Even when it rains we have a hope of a rainbow."

God bless

[Delta40]

wow now I'm in hospital after having a couple of seizures and bashing my temporal lobe on a treadmill. now I have a condition called de ja trouve (we have already met) every face is so familiar to me. in the hospital, magazines on the tv. I've had some tests but the neurologist doesn't know whether its permanent. man its freaking me out because on top of that I didn't recognise my own friends when they visited....

[JuniperWoolf]

I've heard about something like that. I learned about something called "prosophenosia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia)" where people hurt their temporal lobe and then have trouble with recognizing faces. Quite a few people have it (Jane Goodall for example) and they get used to it. They can still remember everything about everyone and they can recognize voices, they just have what could informally be referred to as a "vision problem." Like myopia, they have trouble distinguishing features.

[Pendragon]

Fortunately, it is usually temporary having to do with short term memory screw-ups. I trust you will soon see better times, Delta. Praying for you.

Pen

[twist]

I was diagnosed with bipolar 13 years ago. In the last 10 I have only had highs thank God but it has affected my medical career to an extent and my marriage unsurprisingly. Dr Liz Miller who was diagnosed years ago has written books on how to monitor your mood and energy. She's really brilliant!
I've been to group therapy sessions and they are useful not least because you realize you're not alone.

[Delta40]

I'm a member of another forum which is run through an Australian university which deals with mental illness. It's useful because people can distribute info that is relevant at a local level regarding meds and access to medical care as well as general support on the forums. I don't think I would attend a group therapy session only because as empathetic as I try to be, there will always be people that I will never gravitate towards and mental illness doesn't change that. I have only stuck with academic material concerning bi-polar but I guess I could consider a more subjective view since it plays a role in my life when I'm not looking....!

Thanks Twist.

[twist]

I always said the highs make up for the lows and it was always like entering Narnia (in a strange kind of way) with the hallucinations. I've been well for five years as I've been more regular with meds much as I hate them! I think increasing your exercise level and getting those endorphin levels up is key. Liz Miller also lays a lot of stress on eating fresh unpackaged food. I met some memorable people in hospital and got good at playing pool! Wish you all the best Delta!

[Delta40]

I definitely agree about the exercise level Twist although a couple of weeks ago I tore my calf muscle at badminton. That's the second time it's happened now and it hurts like a *****! I'll look out for the book by Liz Miller, because even though entering Narnia is so appealing, I usually find myself shut in the wardrobe for quite some time before it happens...

[twist]

Delta, have you tried cycle spin which will be easy on your calves but still intense?
Yoga is supposed to be good for bipolar and boxercise is a good all round workout.

Liz Miller's book is called Mood Mapping.

[Delta40]

When I'm at the gym I cycle and the instructor takes me through a boxing routine. I haven't tried yoga yet.

[twist]

I know I'm going high when I have insomnia two nights in a row and I see vivid images when I close my eyes. I sometimes get the vivid images anyway.
One of my friends said "people take drugs to feel like you!" so it could be worse....