The Trojan Women

[Lulya]

Hello
did any one red the Greek play The Trojan Women? if yes what do you think of it? and why did the writer wrote it?

There is a movie about it in 1971 I think:angel:

[Charles Darnay]

It has been a while since I read that one and there are quite a few ancient plays titled "The x Women" so I tend to mix them up.

The Trojan Women deals mainly with the loss of Troy (as well as other lamentations of the women who suffered at the hands of the Greeks). There are a few references in the play that suggest that although it is about the fall of Troy it is "really" about the early stages of the Peloponnesian War. It is a bit of an attack on Athens' brutality.

[dfloyd]

about 415 BC while the Pelopennisian war was still in progress. The Athenians attacked an island ( I forget which one), but their cruel treatment of the islanders is reflected in the cruelty the Greeks showed the Trojan women. The Trojan war was over and all of Hecuba's grandchildren and her husband, Priam, would be killed. Cassandra was to become the mistress of Agamemnon and return with him to Argos. Cassandra who could foretell the future, saw that Agamemnon and herself would be slain by his wife, Clytemnestra, who was Helen's sister. Cassandra thought this was a joke of sorts since no one would believe her prophesy. Andromache was to return to Ithica with Odysseus. The Greeks wanted to kill her son whose father was Hector so they threw him from the battlements of Troy. Andromache had already sailed so it was up to Hecuba to bury her grandson.

The last woman of Troy was really a Greek: Helen. She fared much better since Menalaus took her back and forgave her. There have been many movies made of this play, and it is an easy play to absorb. I believe it is the last of a trilogy by Euripedes, but there are no connections to the other plays as there are in The Oresteian Trilogy by Aeschylus.

Mythology was to the Greeks as Vietnam is to us. Once you get the Myths down, reading or seeing the plays can be quite entertaining, albeit a little bloody.

[Charles Darnay]

The connection is, I believe, that all three plays deal with the last days of Troy.

[dfloyd]

there was no connection as to a continuation of the characters as in the Oresteia.

[OrphanPip]

It was the island of Melos, they were a tributary of Athens, but they ignored Athens' call to war, so they were brutally slaughtered. (There's a Greek restaurant here in Montreal named after the island)

[dfloyd]

It is hard enough to remember all the Greek names and their relationship to others let alone remember all the islands the greeks landed on as they went to Troy. The roll call in the second chapter of the Iliad must have been a bear for the poets to remember.

[prendrelemick]

Hang on a moment, Melos was a real island and a real massacre, not part of the Trojan War epic.

It shook the liberal intellegensia of Athens. At about the same time the whole Alcabides situation and the expedition to Sicily was going on. The downside of democracy, ie mob rule, was was becoming more and more obvious as popularist war mongering by politicians was leading to aggressive and fairly stupid decisions.

The wealthy chattering classes that Euripides belonged to, recognised that Athens had become the cruel Tyrant of the Delian league. Which, to get back to the original question, is why he wrote it .



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[hellsapoppin]

I read ''Trojan Women'' in college many moons ago. It was not that great a work but has remained popular for some reason that I cannot quite understand. What I find most interesting is that in his time Euripides was called a misogynist - a woman hater. Today some critics call him a feminist.

Some of the women in his stories were highly passionate, demonstrative, and intellectual - women who could think, not just to react emotionally. This portrayal was rather unusual in that era. Perhaps chauvinistic commentators of that era thought women should have their limits and serve as emotional rather than rational beings. Thankfully, that limitation is no longer in vogue. While a great many female characters are portrayed rationally nowadays, we have Euripides to thank for pioneering that portrayal on stage and literature.

[prendrelemick]

Passionate and intellectual women seem to be a feature of Greek drama of that time. Unyet their official place in Athenian democratic society - in the statutes, laws and processes - was firmly in the background.

[Lulya]

okay that's great I see many of you know this play I would like to ask questions about it ..to know what do you think the answer is . so>>
1. Read Talthybius’s argument that Andromache peacefully submit and give Astyanax up to the Greek soldiers to be murdered (832-848). What argument does Talthybius successfully use to get Andromache to submit?
Talthybius told her to be a wise woman and do not resist, and don’t pretend that you are strong. He reminds her of what she has lost her city, her husband, and now she is no longer a queen. He asked her to not struggle and to not curse them. She has to be calm in order to have the army’s mercy in her son to let her child have his rite of burial.
2. Read Andromache’s final lines, “My own child’s blood / Is paving the road I take to this new marriage” (895-896). What is the denotative meaning? What is the connotative meaning (i.e. what does this portend or suggest beyond the actual words she’s saying)?
Andromache’s denotative meaning that her child might be killed if she chooses to not marry Hector and her connotative meaning is that when she had chosen to not marry then she actually chosen her son death, which is mean that she had two different fate to choose between them, and she had chosen to marry in order to save her son.

3. After Andromache’s led away, Hecuba has her final words of parting as the guards take Astyanax away (lines 907-913). How is this hardship that is particularly hard for Hecuba to bear? Think especially of the advice that Hecuba gave Andromache about submitting to her new husband (804-810).
Because Hecuba had lost her husband, her daughters, and her son in the war, and losing her grandson who’s the last one of her family going to be hard for her. In line (804-810) she is asking Andromache to be good to her husband, because it might be the reason of bringing her grandson save to Troy.


Please I just want to have some idea about if this is true..I mean what I had understood from the questions

[hellsapoppin]

I wish I could answer your questions but it has been about 40 years since I read that play. What I do recall is that Euripides hated war and wrote several anti-war plays. This is one of them. While many glorified war, he showed how it was evil in that innocents such as children suffered so badly and so needlessly.

Instead of extracting tribute from the vanquished, the victors enslave some of the women and children while killing others. In fact, some of the females would now become concubines so that what were yesterday's enemies will now become relatives of those victors (very ironic there).

I remember that Cassandra was prominent in this play. She was cursed with the gift of prophecy in that she would forecast the truth but nobody would believe her. People have said over the years that war is evil but few seem to believe it. Perhaps her prophecy as to those evils reflects how people feel about them. The world should awaken to the truth that war is evil!. In fact, I believe that when we first see Hecuba (a queen) she is awakening from her sleep. As queen she should have known that her people would die from war. Perhaps she should have warned the king to refrain from war and to do all he could to negotiate for peace. That what people were suffering today was because they failed to awaken to the truth that war is hell and its consequences much more far reaching than they would suppose. As queen she suffers most as her husband, her land, her realm, and now her life would all go to hell. Therefore, she lost more than anyone else. This is why she was so prominent in the play.

Sorry to say, I cannot think of a more informed answer but I hope this helps.

[Lulya]

mmm thank you...but I feel my answer is right, and in the same time no..I am studying it in my drama course and feel kind of lost

thanks any way :)

[prendrelemick]

If Euripides was trying to reflect the morality of Athens' behavior towards Melos, I think it may be helpful for you to read Thucydides' Melian dialogue. Certainly when I read your account of Talthybius' arguments with Andromache, I can see strong parrallels.


Basically Athens claimed that the strong were right, and the best thing for the weak to do is to comply with the strong. Melos believed that though weak they were morally right and should not submit.

[Lulya]

So, my answer was right?