Staid, Painful, Turgid Literature in the English Language

[Robert E Lee]

I have recently read The Ambassadors by Henry James, and I am ashamed to admit that I hated it :oops:

It was painful to read. After every half page I laid the book down on my chest and yawned. The story concerns an American that has to go to Paris to get his soon-to-be wife's son back to America, so that he, the older guy can get married and reap the financial benefits. There is plenty of room for interesting dialogue, humorous descriptions of Paris, poetic descriptions of Paris, and social commentary; but, alas, what I got here were gigantic paragraphs that were as prolix as possible and didn't explain anything and repetitive dialogue which always involved two characters making dated psychological assumptions about a third character behind that third character's back.

It was pure suffering. Am I missing something or does James just... blow?

What well-known, classic writer in English do you find painfully dull?

[Robert E Lee]

I can't believe I'm not getting any feedback.

[hadji9]

I can't believe I'm not getting any feedback.

I read 'The Turn of The Screw' in ap english during my senior year in high school, it was atrocious. I'm a fan of ghost stories and whatnot such as 'Wuthering Heights' and, in a round about way, 'The Dead', but James is sooooooo hard to appreciate because he is so outdated. Perhaps he was trying to capture the essence of one of the most boring periods in American History -- Reconstruction.

[Robert E Lee]

I can't believe I'm not getting any feedback.

I read 'The Turn of The Screw' in ap english during my senior year in high school, it was atrocious. I'm a fan of ghost stories and whatnot such as 'Wuthering Heights' and, in a round about way, 'The Dead', but James is sooooooo hard to appreciate because he is so outdated. Perhaps he was trying to capture the essence of one of the most boring periods in American History -- Reconstruction.

I've also read The Turn of the Screw. Boring as hell, but not as bad as The Ambassadors. "The Dead" is a great story by the way.

What does James have to do with Reconstruction?

What's really scary is that James's most painful work was written in the 20th century.

[Zeno]

i thought the dead was james joyce i saw the movie it was really good

[hadji9]

i thought the dead was james joyce i saw the movie it was really good

'The Dead' is indeed a James Joyce story from the 'Dubliners'. I was juxtaposing a couple of authors (e.g., Bronte and Joyce) to Henry James. On the subject of Joyce, what do you all believe to be Gabriel Conroy's fate at the end of 'The Dead'? Do you think he returns to Galway with Gretta, or does he undergo the kind of moral and physical decay that plagues the rest of the characters in the story? And, likewise, what do you think Joyce was intending when Gabriel hears "a few light taps upon the [window] pane"? Snow doesn't make a sound when it hits the window unless it is mixed with rain or sleet, so what did Joyce mean by that? I have my own opinion, but I would like to hear yours.

[Robert E Lee]

i thought the dead was james joyce i saw the movie it was really good

'The Dead' is indeed a James Joyce story from the 'Dubliners'. I was juxtaposing a couple of authors (e.g., Bronte and Joyce) to Henry James. On the subject of Joyce, what do you all believe to be Gabriel Conroy's fate at the end of 'The Dead'? Do you think he returns to Galway with Gretta, or does he undergo the kind of moral and physical decay that plagues the rest of the characters in the story? And, likewise, what do you think Joyce was intending when Gabriel hears "a few light taps upon the [window] pane"? Snow doesn't make a sound when it hits the window unless it is mixed with rain or sleet, so what did Joyce mean by that? I have my own opinion, but I would like to hear yours.

Stay on topic please. Gabriel becomes detached from his wife and realizes the transience of life. That's what I make of it. End of story.

Back on topic.

[Morgan]

The first Henry James novel that i read was Portrait of a Lady, and i found it brilliant. The writing had a certain elegant touch to it, the lesson of the novel so exquisitely hidden in the plot...the portrayal of the characters,each portraying a certain aspect of society, wonderfully developed. There's Isabel Archer, the modern version of Shakesperian tragic hero; Gilbert Osmond, the loathsome materialist for whom his personal happiness is the only goal, and even Ralph Touchett, the underappreciated infirm, that so subtly demonstrates that appearances are deceiving...You can only imagine how moved i was by this book...And naturally, I wanted to follow it up, and started reading The Bostonians...The elegant writing turned into utterly dull paragraphs, with no twist, the plot, although it had the potential of creating another masterpiece, and could have developed extensive characters failed to do so, as the reader is either entangled in the many parallel plots among the numerous characters, many of which are entirely irrelevant, or is lost completely in a sequence of snob-like words, with absolutely no substance...
Maybe ten years from now, upon re-reading The Bostonians, I will see the flaws of my former opinions...but until then, I am skeptical of trying another one of his novels...

[Zeno]

Well as to the topic i never read henry james but i remember an interview with the actors of the last film version of the golden bowl and they all said they found the book unreadable.

Well if i get a chance to read the dead, or dubliners? i will because the movie was beutifull and in the end he was thinking to himself how little he really new his wifes inner most thoughts although he lived with here and shared an outword life, and thinking over her story of the boy who loved her in her youth and died long ago and it was deep and beautifull and sad

[Koa]

i've never read any henry james but i've seen the movie of 'portrait of a lady' (the one with nicole kidman, incase there's more than one). Maybe it will put me off that author forever, cos if the book is like the film....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (sorry, fell asleep at the memory of it ;))

[Zeno]

i kinda liked that movie and there where a few sceens that where really interesting to me, the cast was also excelent.

[Shuai]

I really can't go for Joseph Conrad. Right now I'm reading Lord Jim. Most of it so far has been describing the beuty of the sea. I guess I would appreciate it if I was a sailor or something, but I just can't relate to it. I hope the book gets beeter, and I hope Heart of Darkness isn't as boring. I would be really disapointed since I have heard many good things about it.

Have any of you guys read W. Somerset Maugham? I am in the middle of Of Human Bondage and am loving it. I can seriously relate to many of the quirky philosophical views on life that it offers. Speaking of which, why don't we have the book on this site?

[Robert E Lee]

I really can't go for Joseph Conrad. Right now I'm reading Lord Jim. Most of it so far has been describing the beuty of the sea. I guess I would appreciate it if I was a sailor or something, but I just can't relate to it. I hope the book gets beeter, and I hope Heart of Darkness isn't as boring. I would be really disapointed since I have heard many good things about it.

Have any of you guys read W. Somerset Maugham? I am in the middle of Of Human Bondage and am loving it. I can seriously relate to many of the quirky philosophical views on life that it offers. Speaking of which, why don't we have the book on this site?

I've read Nostromo and The Secret Agent by Conrad. While Nostromo drags, it doesn't match my definition of stolid, painful literature. What I have in mind is stiff, conventional, genteel crap about characters about whom one can't give a ****. The Secret Agent is far from boring.

Yes, I've read Of Human Bondage. I find it overrated. It's loaded with trite moralistic messages and follows every generic convention in the book (no pun intended).

[Shuai]

To each his own.

[Zeno]

Start with secret Sharer then go to the novolla Heart of darkness only 90 pages long then if you really like conrad read the rest of his stuff When i read lord Jim there where only a few parts i really liked although i do think its a good book. "MISTAH KURTZ -- HE DEAD" T.S. Eliot qouted that for his Poem the Hallow men but the line i used to like was "it echoed laudly within him, for he was hallow at the core" ... and "he kicked himself lose of the earth and all it's people" the images of ivory the man in the perfectly laundered white suit... i read it what like 8 years ago still remember some of those images but i don't really have any disire to read Conrad anymore can't say why.

[bobbybittman]

I always said that Henry James was less an author than he was a sleep therapist.

[Arteum]

I really can't go for Joseph Conrad. Right now I'm reading Lord Jim. Most of it so far has been describing the beuty of the sea. I guess I would appreciate it if I was a sailor or something, but I just can't relate to it. I hope the book gets beeter, and I hope Heart of Darkness isn't as boring. I would be really disapointed since I have heard many good things about it.

Have any of you guys read W. Somerset Maugham? I am in the middle of Of Human Bondage and am loving it. I can seriously relate to many of the quirky philosophical views on life that it offers. Speaking of which, why don't we have the book on this site?

Robert E Lee:

> I've read Nostromo and The Secret Agent by Conrad. While Nostromo
> drags, it doesn't match my definition of stolid, painful literature. What I > have in mind is stiff, conventional, genteel crap about characters about > whom one can't give a ****. The Secret Agent is far from boring.

> Yes, I've read Of Human Bondage. I find it overrated. It's loaded with
> trite moralistic messages and follows every generic convention in the
> book (no pun intended).

We, guys, have something to talk about ;)
I am reading "Nostromo" by J. Conrad and I already spent 3 months although I'm still in the middle of it. I usually read 3 or 4 books at a time and it is only once a week or so that I force myself to a few pages of "Nostromo". Oh, how happy I will be when this slow, turgid, gooey novel ends!

"Of Human Bondage", on the contrary, is a genuine pleasure to read. Although by the time I have read it I had already discovered many of the truths of life which Maugham describes, I still felt like I've learnt a lot from this book.

Shuai, also try Maugham's short stories. He's one of the best English short story writers.

[gterpenkas]

James Joyce, the Bronte family, and Charles Dickens are my most hated of all authors. I find Joyce to be overly verbose and pretentious, and I think he had no concept whatsoever of exactly what he was writing. The Brontes are probably the most annoying of all authors (especially Charlotte). I could write you a hundred-thousand page essay describing why I hate Dickens; he was the most boring, wordy, arrogant hothead to ever sit down and write. He had no good ideas of his own, as just about everything I've ever read from him has a slew of themes "borrowed" from other works and he passes them off as his own. He uses the most bland symbols I've ever heard of that dont communicate anything but refuse. As I've already stated, I could go on forever, but I'll have to truncate it before I turn out some boring, drawn out ramble that makes you want to vomit in terror.

[Vronaqueen]

I agree with gterpenkas 100% especially when it comes to Dickens and the Brontes, but although Joyce is pretentious and overtly aristocratic with his style, above all his stories are entirely depressing. The American for instance was simply rapped up with the lead female characterlocking herself in nunnery! it's a little tidy don't you think?

[Helen]

i sympethise, i took 'the ambassador' on holiday with me after i had read 'the europeans' which i liked, but has anyone noticed nothing much seems to happen? anyway could not get past chapter 1 of the former, and had to read magazines!!!!!

:)

[gterpenkas]

I agree with gterpenkas 100% especially when it comes to Dickens and the Brontes, but although Joyce is pretentious and overtly aristocratic with his style, above all his stories are entirely depressing. The American for instance was simply rapped up with the lead female characterlocking herself in nunnery! it's a little tidy don't you think?

What I find really depressing is that the 'depression' in his books is a borrowed idea that he ruined. Also, I prefer bitterness over depression. For example, read the opening page of Evelyn Waugh's A Handfull of Dust; it involves describing no people as being hurt, but two maids killed themselves. For depression, read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (If you don't find the ending depressing, there's something wrong with you), and then theres the more classic examples, like the Oedipus trillogy, and one of my personal favorites, Euripides' The Baccae.

Basically, my literary appetite does not crave any of that turgid victorianesque garbage that came out of those things that called themselves authors.

[Johnpug]

My brother in law (whose opinions on books is usually quite good) gave me Dreiser's American Tragedy to read saying it was his "favorite book of all time" - oh my god, it is like chinese water torture to read. I have started it several times but about 25% through I can't read any more. Then I usually read some Vonnegut or O'Brians' Aubrey-Maturin's books to clean my head out a little. The bum has yet to read my #1 read of all time "100 Years of Solitude!"

I agree about Dickens being somnogenic too. My favorite Dicken's novel was C. Palliser's The Quincunx!

BTW, Dubliner's is a both a great read and and nice movie...

JP